BrickLink Discussion Forum

In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:

This suggestion is a summary of my recommendations, plus input from others' many
private messages I received on this over the last few days that I would like
Admin to consider in the site upgrade.

BACKGROUND AND JUSTIFICATION:-

The BrickLink site has always required its' members, both buyers and sellers,
to trade legally and fairly. This is an essential aspect of the site's reputation
which makes it an attractive venue for buyers and sellers to trade here with
confidence and safety. The continued success of the site and enjoyment of it
experienced by its' members both depend heavilly on this being maintained.

The site continues to grow rapidly and welcomes many mew members, both buyers
and sellers every day. The financial success of the site has indeed secured its'
future beyond the loss of its' inspired founder. In the early days, this site
was a small community and the founder members and early adopters clearly did
a great job in building the principles of the site and policing it in a self-regulatory
way. For the most part this still works today but, as is demonstrated in the
many threads recently, some (buyers and sellers) are falling short of those principles
and indeed the law! This may be driven by the vast increase in membership which
makes this place less "personal" for some and combined with this; the laws and
regulations covering internet trading become more and more complex as governments
focus on the explosion of such trading and their need to close tax loopholes
and try to protect their consumers from substandard trading and scams.

I believe the site and ALL its' members (except for any that come here to do
unfair or illegal trading) will benefit from a more developed policy on safe
and legal trading for both their own protection and for the reputation of the
site in general which should help promote its' continued growth and success.

The following suggestions are simply my thougths on "how" some of the issues
might be addressed taking into account the direct input I have had from several
other members as well as many forum threads over the years but some recent ones
in particular:-

SUGGESTION #1 - EXPAND ON THIS IN TOS:-

TOS #11 REQUIRES the following.

"General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."

Whilst this "covers" the site in demonstrating to authorities its' intent not
to encourage illegal behaviour, in practice it does little or nothing to:

1. Help inform its' members about what those laws might be and where to find
out about them. Many of the problems here (for buyers and sellers) are caused
by a complete lack of knowledge on the relevent laws.

2. Provides no penalty for breaking them which unfortunately is the reason why
some of the intentional law breakers are comming here.

I suggest changing the TOS #11 to spell out some of the specific laws that members
need to comply with, namely:

Customs - sellers are required to complete customs documents as required by law
honestly and accurately which, for the purpose of selling here, means declaring
the sales value of the goods as stated on the invoice and NOT misprepresenting
commercial sales as gifts.

Compliance with local advertising, selling and consumer protection laws - sellers
are required to comply with all relevent laws applicable to their selling activities.

Taxation - prior to listing any items for sale, sellers are advised to check
the rules in their country relating to any taxation they may need to charge their
customers (e.g. sales tax, VAT as applicable) and any requirements to declare
to their tax authorities any sales activity they conduct on this site.

SUGGESTION #2 - MAKE CUSTOMS FRAUD A REPORTABLE OFFENCE:-

Just as we can report listings that do not comply with the TOS, have a similar
funtion where:

1. Sellers can report (with evidence e.g. private message) to Admin that a buyer
requested a fraudulent customs declaration.

2. Buyers can report (with evidence e.g. private message or something in sellers'
terms) that a seller is offering a fraudulent customs declaration.

3. If a penalty is given, just like an NPB or NSS, a buyer or seller can have
feedback removed if it was given in relation to a transaction subject to the
penalty.

4. A buyer or seller has the right to cancel an order without penalty if subject
to a validated request for customs fraud.

Validated reports would result in a penalty ranging from 1st warning, through
temporary suspension of buying or selling rights, to membership termination for
repeat offenders.

SUGGESTION #3 - HAVE A HELP GUIDE ON SAFETY AND THE LAW

Which members have to declare they have read before they can buy or sell on the
site.

Unlike eBay which has legal resources in many of its' markets, BL has a central
Administration which cannot be expected to be expert on these matter in all geographies.

Perhaps we cound have voluntary "country Admins" for this purpose who would be
responsible for maintaining content with an opening statement relevent to their
market and a number of (official government only) links to any laws relating
to internet buying and selling in their country and the official taxation and
customs sites for their country. This must have a legal disclaimer saying these
Admins and the site are not giving legal advice and it is the ultimate responsibility
of the individual member to ensure he/she complies with all applicable laws.

SUGGESTION #4 - HAVE SOME FUNCTION TO PROMPT BUYERS WHEN BUYING INTERNATIONALLY
-

When you put something in a cart of a store not in your country, you are prompted
to look at a page that says something like:-

"You are about to purchase from a store located outside of your country, you
are advised to check if you may be liable for any customs charges relating to
importing this item into your country WHICH ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY before committing
to this purchase. Purchasing from overseas may also limit your rights as a buyer."

Obviously, this needs some more thought! I would not want this message for EVERY
item I put in a store cart, maybe just the 1st one for example. Maybe give an
option "do not show this message again" after a couple of hits on it within a
certain time period.

SUMMING IT UP FOR ME:-

None of this changes anything that is not the intent of the current TOS.

It is not to differentiate between "private" or "business" sellers for any purpose
of promoting one above the other, although for UK at least and many EU countries,
Gareth's suggestion on that would help keep sellers on the right side of the
law so I still support that too. There does seem to be some differences of definition
on that between countries which would need to be addressed further.

This is intended to HELP buyers and sellers comply with their laws and avoid
some of the risks many are taking now through ignorance of them. Being reported
for falling foul of a law or being caught not complying with it in most cases
carries penalties that most people would be pleased to avoid if given a chance
and informing them better simply helps to avoid that possibility

I would be happy to do more work on this if required as I am passionate about
keeping this a safe, respected place with trading standards that we can ALL be
proud of and enjoy.

CONGRATUALTIONS YOU GOT TO THE END OF THIS POST -

Thank you very much for your time!

Robert

I very much agree with your introduction, and I can't say I disagree with
the rest, but to me the issue of customs delcarations seems really minor and
anecdotal - people are usually talking more about the issue in theory than about
actual occurences of it, and I wonder how much money in the history of Bricklink
has been actually saved by inaccurate forms.

For me much more immediate concerns that comes to mind when reading your introduction
are the following, because when I go over various random EU store's terms
MORE THAN HALF of the sample is not legally compliant with at least
one and usually multiple ones of the following rules:

- Full acceptance of cancellation without penalty and without reason required

- Accepting returns and refunding the buyer including the postage cost and the
postage cost of sending it back

- Not charging more for transaction fees than the transactions actually cost

And last but not least:

- Being responsible for lost shipments - meaning full refund or resend if anything
goes missing

These laws apply to all EU stores, regardless of the legal form of the store.
Here on Bricklink we sell in stores (selling through the forum is not even allowed).
Therefore, all of the above is applicable and in my opinion should be enforced
by Bricklink.

Author:

Teup

Posted:

May 2, 2019 04:40

Subject:

Re: Coral

Viewed:

58 times

Topic:

Colors

In Colors, qwertyboy writes:

FYI -

Just came across a bunch of these parts in color coral:

27507 Tile, Round Corner 4 x 4 Macaroni Wide
Parts: Tile, Round

It looks like there are two distinct shades. One exactly matches coral color
for this part we have:

41740 Plate, Modified 1 x 4 with 2 Studs with Groove
Parts: Plate, Modified

The other one is lighter - less saturated. TLG calls the new color "vibrant coral".
The lighter shade could almost be called "regular coral".

Or of course another
instance of bad quality control.

I can see if I can make a pic later.

Niek.

Coral: What an unfortunate name for a colour. If there's one thing in the
world that can have every colour imaginable... it's coral. But apparently
that's just me, because Google tells me it's a thing. I'd go for
salmon or something like that.

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Apr 22, 2019 12:06

Subject:

Re: Random Stockroom Items

Viewed:

36 times

Topic:

In Inventories, antiquer88 writes:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me why random items show up as stockroom
items in my inventory. I have no items I have intentionally marked for retention
in stockroom, yet every Monday I go to my inventory and delete random items that
have shown up as zero count stockroom items.

Is this something I have done in error, or is it a system problem?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Stan.

It's one of those persistent problems that Bricklink is trying to fix. I
think something is really wrong in the bug fixing department, it seems their
ability to isolate a problem and target it effectively with a fix is really compromised.
Previously there was an issue with remark fields being deleted and it also took
a very long time and was also "fixed" in an "ok this time it really seems to
work but if you have problems let us know" way.
Several people have reported this issue. Hope for you guys they will do something
about it.

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Apr 20, 2019 09:32

Subject:

Re: What do the ! and * symbols mean under image?

Viewed:

40 times

Topic:

In Inventories, Naughty_UK writes:

Thanks, yeah, I see those tips now when I view the 3D part in "Quick Help Tips:",
dunno how I missed them before... I was slightly confused before that though
because when I was looking at a set inventory, part 3023 in black had a ! beneath
it but the same part in light grey didn't have one...

How is it confusing? Everybody knows that an asterisk is the symbol for "large"
and an exclamation mark the universal symbol for 3D, right? Can't see why
new users complain Bricklink is not intuitive

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Apr 17, 2019 05:41

Subject:

Re: Lengths in “L” and 18654

Viewed:

40 times

Topic:

Catalog

In Catalog, randyf writes:

In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:

I’m wondering what’s the rationale for having changed the name (and dimensions)
of

18654 Technic, Liftarm Thick 1 x 1 (Spacer)
Parts: Technic, Liftarm

from “1 L” to “2/3 L”.

I can’t see where it’s 0.67L.

Especially if I compare it to

62462 Technic, Pin Connector Round 2L with Slot (Pin Joiner Round)
Parts: Technic, Connector

6538 Technic, Axle Connector 2L (Ridged Undetermined Type)
Parts: Technic, Connector

and their variants, or with

43857 Technic, Liftarm Thick 1 x 2
Parts: Technic, Liftarm

and other liftarms/beams, or all the connectors with “# L” in their descriptions.

In the same way, its new dimensions are 1 x 1 x 0.67. As it’s a cylinder, it
means the 0.67 is supposed to apply to its height. But its height is exactly
1 stud, which is 5/6th = 0.83 brick, not 2/3rd = 0.67, and, anyway, “L” means
stud, not brick, so 1 = 1.

Therefore, I strongly believe its name should have stayed “Technic, Pin Connector
Round 1 L” and its dimensions should be 1 x 1 x 0.83.
(Actually, its diameter is a shy less than 1 stud, so its dimensions should be
0.9something x 0.9something x 0.83 but all the liftarms have the same width and
are said to be 1 stud wide.)

Not filing a proper catalogue change request because I really would want to know
the reasoning here, not play ping-pong.

I don't really care too much right now about the dimensions of the part.
What I care about more is how it is named and categorized. I have never thought
of it as a "Pin Connector" because it actually can't connect pins at all.
It is basically a 1L bushing for pins in the same way

3713 Technic Bush
Parts: Technic

is a 1L bushing for axles.

Cheers,
Randy

How can factual correctness be less important than a choice of how to categorise
it? I'd say #1 is to get the facts straight, and after that, we can go and
organise it. But what SylvainLS points out here is a real mistake that should
be corrected. It's a small thing in itself, but the correctness of the catalog
is one of the core features that drive Bricklink. I'd say it's the main
selling point of Bricklink compared to BrickOwl.

Maybe someone thought it was 2 plates high, thus 2/3.. but it really raises the
question why it was ever approved.

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Apr 9, 2019 14:39

Subject:

Re: inconsistencies

Viewed:

28 times

Topic:

Catalog

In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:

In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:

In Catalog, Teup writes:

Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.

I like this sentence.

Me too.
Well, except for the example, as there are plates with grooves

3030a Plate 4 x 10 with Groove
Parts: Plate

and tiles/plates variants with and without groove

41740 Plate, Modified 1 x 4 with 2 Studs with Groove
Parts: Plate, Modified

92593 Plate, Modified 1 x 4 with 2 Studs without Groove
Parts: Plate, Modified

(And the jumpers too….)

Yeah... the fact that there's a variation that would span across categories
if you take the groove as the defining factor, kind of kills that idea pretty
effectively.

Anyway, in my opinion it's not a huge deal that it's not perfect. TileMod
and PlateMod are two fairly big categories, nicely sized if you ask me. God forbid
someone would decide to merge them together because there's no principal
distinction possible. I'd rather put up with a bit of inconsistency that's
very easy to learn, than one huge category that is difficult to manage, both
in terms of browsing it online as well as storing it for me and other stores
who have category based sorting..
And we have the forum for venting inconsistency frustrations, which works pretty
well too

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Apr 9, 2019 14:15

Subject:

Re: inconsistencies

Viewed:

32 times

Topic:

Catalog

In Catalog, yorbrick writes:

In Catalog, edk writes:

why is

6576 Plate, Modified 4 x 8 with Studs in Center
Parts: Plate, Modified

a plate modified when

88646 Tile, Modified 3 x 4 with 4 Studs in Center
Parts: Tile, Modified

is a tile modified?

There is no consistency, both could be either.

You could say the parent of 6576 is either a 4x8 plate or 4x8 tile, but the 4x8
tile doesn't exist so 6576 must be a modified plate.

Or you could say you add 12 studs to the tile or remove 20 studs from the plate,
so it is closer to being a tile than a plate.

For 88646, neither the parent tile or plate exist. You add 4 studs to the tile,
but remove 8 from the plate and also have to shift them. So does that make it
a modified tile rather than modified plate?

If so, then the 1x2 jumper should be a modified tile (add one stud, vs remove
and move one stud). Similarly a 2x2 jumper is definitely closer to a tile than
a plate but is still a modified plate. Worse still, this pack of jumper bricks:

10115-1 (Inv) Jumper Bricks
80 Parts, 2001
Sets: Bulk Bricks

contains no bricks at all.

33909 Tile, Modified 2 x 2 with Studs on Edge
Parts: Tile, Modified

is clearly a 2x2 plate with two studs removed, but it is a modified tile.

6180 Tile, Modified 4 x 6 with Studs on Edges
Parts: Tile, Modified

is also a modified tile rather than plate (compare to 6576).

Exactly, the jumpers always seemed much more tile-like to me than that "tile".

I guess the only relevant answer to this issue is: This was acknowledged by the
previous catmin Stormchaser, he said the concepts of plate and tile needed to
be principally redefined before these things could be classified properly. If
that's also what the new catalog management will do is not yet clear. Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Feb 28, 2019 09:33

Subject:

Re: Brickstock questions

Viewed:

23 times

Topic:

In Inventories, calsbricks writes:

In Inventories, Teup writes:

In Inventories, calsbricks writes:

In Inventories, wilton1975 writes:

Guys,

Appreciate both your responses as they shed some much needed light. It is a little
strange that BrickStock doesn't seem to have a Help section explaining all
this.

HI there sorry I missed this thread earlier

Please bear in mind that Teup's comments do not really apply to the UK.

Well.... it does. I'm just saying that the averge price that you see here
in Bricklink is not equal to the average price in Brickstock. These do not match.
Parting out a set at average price on Bricklink will result in you having higher
priced items than parting out that same set at average price in Brickstock.

Whether you wish to match the price of other stores including VAT, or whether
you want to compare yourself to their prices ex VAT... yeah, here you're
right, those are all your own business decisions.

But the fact is that the Bricklink priceguide does not match the Brickstock priceguide.
It's important to be aware of this. Pricing at the Brickstock average is
pricing below the Bricklink average.

As I said or at least implied - average pricing in the UK includes VAT and once
you adjust the downloaded price in Brickstock it matches as close as can be expected.
Nothing is perfect and Brickstock could use work on this but so could Bricklink.
The currency conversion is a bigger issue than vat as it applies to all apart
from the USA. Bricklink could do a lot more there and haven't.

Do USA prices include sales tax ? That differs depending on whether you ship
in state or out of state. So the whole pricing scenario based on Bricklink is
a bit shaky - it should be used as a guideline only not a 'real figure'.

Do the last 6 months sales prices include tzes of any kind or is it net. If something
sells at 10p that is the price that should be reflected. If you are vat registered
and can claim back the vat go for it - but for the majority of UK sellers that
is not the position - what you see is what you pay and that is what your cost
is. Pricing needs to be based on cost + not some weird price guide which no one
fully understands. They can tell you how it works but when you look at it you
only see a single figure not how that figures has been made up.

Again for example 1000 units sold at 8p one month but 10p the next month so average
is 9p, but that is not remotely accurate. If the currency conversion rate has
fluctuated then they might be selling at a totally different price, or the same
price.

The price guide needs major re-working and I do not believe that is going to
happen. It currently is a very crude tool which has to be manipulated to get
anywhere near reality.

If the design of the system is anywhere near what it should be there is only
one table with prices and those are converted from an exchange rate table each
time they are displayed, Somehow I doubt that.

Well, I guess that's all true enough. Some take the priceguide as just a
guide, some ignore it, some take it as some holy prescription. I tend to be kind
of the latter type... but that's not because I think these numbers are inherently
all so correct (you pointed out some of its shortcomings) but I just remember
that when I was a buyer I'd check the priceguide on everything and buy things
depending on them being at or below average. So it's more a presentation
matter that I want my prices to line up with that reference than that I give
that reference any "scientific" credit. So the priceguide is my starting point
and from there I decide what to buy. Instead of first buying, and then based
on what I spent deciding what my prices should be.

But that's just a personal decision of course. You could invent any kind
of pricing policy for yourself and there are good arguments for all of them.
Maybe in some of them it is actually a blessing that Brickstock downloads the
ex.VAT value.

But in what ever case, no matter what your pricing policy is, and no matter whether
you are VAT registered, no matter if you're a buyer or a seller, if you live
in the area where Bricklink displays prices including VAT for, for all these
people, it is just important to know this difference: priceguide on BL includes
VAT, priceguide downloaded through Brickstock excludes VAT. Then you can do whatever
you want with that information. But knowing it is important as it prevents us
from sleepwalking into a race to the bottom.

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Feb 28, 2019 05:25

Subject:

Re: Brickstock questions

Viewed:

27 times

Topic:

In Inventories, calsbricks writes:

In Inventories, wilton1975 writes:

Guys,

Appreciate both your responses as they shed some much needed light. It is a little
strange that BrickStock doesn't seem to have a Help section explaining all
this.

HI there sorry I missed this thread earlier

Please bear in mind that Teup's comments do not really apply to the UK.

Author:

Teup

Posted:

Feb 26, 2019 16:15

Subject:

Re: Brickstock questions

Viewed:

57 times

Topic: