BrickLink Discussion Forum

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In Inventories, axaday writes:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In Inventories, axaday writes:

So should I start uploading these? I have quite a few.

Yes. You can go ahead.

Do we have any way of looking for which ones we lack? At this point I realize
they are EVERYWHERE, but will we be able to tell when it is done?

I don't think we will know when it is done or really care if it ever is.
We just want to get as much information into the database as possible and have
a resource for all those people who want to know what comes in those little cardboard
sleeves without having to open them to sell.

Cheers,
Randy

The journey is the destination?

Author:

randyf

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 12:41

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

42 times

Topic:

In Inventories, axaday writes:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In Inventories, axaday writes:

So should I start uploading these? I have quite a few.

Yes. You can go ahead.

Do we have any way of looking for which ones we lack? At this point I realize
they are EVERYWHERE, but will we be able to tell when it is done?

Author:

axaday

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 10:20

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

53 times

Topic:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

If I was king around here

Hmmmm

Author:

axaday

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 10:17

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

48 times

Topic:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In Inventories, axaday writes:

So should I start uploading these? I have quite a few.

Yes. You can go ahead.

Do we have any way of looking for which ones we lack? At this point I realize
they are EVERYWHERE, but will we be able to tell when it is done?

Author:

randyf

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 08:25

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

46 times

Topic:

In Inventories, axaday writes:

So should I start uploading these? I have quite a few.

Yes. You can go ahead.

Author:

axaday

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 08:21

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

44 times

Topic:

In Inventories, Hygrotus writes:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

There is another one here if you need it that I happen to have on my desk.

I wasn't sure how to upload a part containing parts and how you are collating
the sets they came in.

From set 79012 contains one standard DARK RED cape

522 Minifigure Cape Cloth, Standard - Traditional Starched Fabric - 4.0cm Height
Parts: Minifigure, Body Wear

Added for you

6002415 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 6002415 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

added normal way category
'Cardboard Sleeve'
you see how it should be numbered and named.

As for which set found write in the note form when uplodaing part then I'm
adding it to additional note. See when you enter the part entry.

So should I start uploading these? I have quite a few.

Author:

calsbricks

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 07:35

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

48 times

Topic:

In Inventories, Hygrotus writes:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

522 Minifigure Cape Cloth, Standard - Traditional Starched Fabric - 4.0cm Height
Parts: Minifigure, Body Wear

Added for you

6002415 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 6002415 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

So if I understand this correctly we should use the inventory change request
for things that come in 'cardboard sleeves' 'little white boxes'
to include the printed number?

We have always keyed that straight into Google and found what was in the box
????

Author:

Hygrotus

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 07:18

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

50 times

Topic:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

522 Minifigure Cape Cloth, Standard - Traditional Starched Fabric - 4.0cm Height
Parts: Minifigure, Body Wear

Added for you

6002415 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 6002415 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

Author:

yorbrick

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 06:45

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

44 times

Topic:

522 Minifigure Cape Cloth, Standard - Traditional Starched Fabric - 4.0cm Height
Parts: Minifigure, Body Wear

Author:

yorbrick

Posted:

Aug 22, 2019 05:01

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

55 times

Topic:

It is most definitely *not* a stupid question. If I was king around here, there
would be a place we could test this stuff without affecting the live data and
have sellers/buyers give feedback. Unfortunately, we don't have that. Maybe
we will someday...

I said stupid question mainly because if you were needing to work on the live
site (hence affecting any users that have any interaction with the sets / parts
you are changing) then the answer is very likely to be that there isn't such
a test server.

Author:

randyf

Posted:

Aug 21, 2019 18:48

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

55 times

Topic:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

Author:

SylvainLS

Posted:

Aug 21, 2019 16:56

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

53 times

Topic:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

[…]
It is probably a stupid question, but does BL have a test server where such changes
can be tried out without affecting how regular users use the site or allowing
regular users to snoop or interrupt the testing of ideas?

It seems crazy that any ideas that get tried out (that do affect regular users)
need to be made on the client facing server.

(Snide: BL doesn’t even have _one_ working website. )

There was a second website where users (mainly sellers) were encouraged to go
when BL2 was to come (the new skin, the new main page, the new WLs, etc.). It
had an older version of the database, with no impact on the actual database.
Some people went there, made bug reports and remarks, and then the update was
put in production as it was and the people who didn’t go to the second site were
angry because they hadn’t known and those who went were angry too because they
weren’t heard.
And then everybody was adverse to any change. Go figure.

Anyway, the “sleeves” changes are on the catalogue, the database, not the website,
its skin and features. So that would mean the catmins would have changed a copy
of the database, then told us “eh, go see what we did,” and then we would have
had a discussion, and maybe a few back and forth, and in the end, they would
have to do all the final changes again on the real database because they don’t
have a direct access to the database and can’t write scripts or do partial saves
and partial updates and the actual database would have changed in the meanwhile
too.

Author:

yorbrick

Posted:

Aug 21, 2019 16:13

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

56 times

Topic:

A user found out while the idea was being tested in the first two days. An announcement
was planned for today or tomorrow once the initial work was done. So, a total
of maybe four days from initial work to completion of testing work to communicating
with the user base for feedback. A pretty short timetable that was interrupted
by a user that was "snooping" around.

For this, it would have all been explained in our announcement message that did
not get a chance to materialize due to someone interrupting the process.

Yeah, we heard that. That is why things have already been rolled back due to
the feedback. I took almost three hours of my personal time last night doing
this by myself ASAP. See, us volunteer admins can get stuff done quickly, unlike
the corporate employees. We also take the feedback we get seriously and try to
work with everyone as best we can as we try to add new things to the catalog.

The volunteer admins have no choice but to move forward with ideas that are needed
for the catalog. We have the time and energy to try and make positive changes
for the user base. The corporate side does not. Eventually, the corporate side
will catch up (from things I have started to hear), but us volunteers have no
say and no way to do what is necessary to the code. We work in the systems we
have.

It is probably a stupid question, but does BL have a test server where such changes
can be tried out without affecting how regular users use the site or allowing
regular users to snoop or interrupt the testing of ideas?

It seems crazy that any ideas that get tried out (that do affect regular users)
need to be made on the client facing server.

Author:

Leftoverbricks

Posted:

Aug 21, 2019 14:24

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

59 times

Topic:

Best reply ever! Thank you so much for this!

Author:

randyf

Posted:

Aug 21, 2019 13:41

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

87 times

Topic:

In Inventories, BasKrie writes:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

Hi Randy,

The problem is that it was not just an idea you were trying out.

Actually, yes it was. We were trying it out for an entire total of two days.

It started to be implemented without notification or explanation and caused issues
for sellers and buyers.

We were implementing changes so that the user base would have something to comment
on when the idea was communicated to the user base in a couple of days. That
got sidetracked because someone noticed they were being added to the catalog
after one day. As I said, not a big deal, because we got the feedback we were
looking for earlier than planned and have made significant changes already. Also,
it had yet to cause any problems for anyone. The people that were testing the
idea came up with great constructive feedback on what was happening behind the
scenes, and that feedback was very welcomed (especially from member yorbrick).

A user had to find out and made a comment about it.

Most of the 'whining and moaning' from the user base, not just to this
'idea' but more in general, is about not communicating to said user base.

Did I mention the communication part was coming within a day or two? And am I
or Marek or Russell not communicating now?

Do not confuse the BrickLink corporate
lack of communication with the volunteer admins who communicate very regularly.
Just have a search through the forums and you will see that the volunteer admins
are very present and remain accountable to the users here.

Time and time again the user base is confronted with changes that are not always
understood and/or apreciated. In some cases the user base does not even understand
why something needs to be changed, beacause it is not allways clear what the
benefit of it is.

For this, it would have all been explained in our announcement message that did
not get a chance to materialize due to someone interrupting the process.

And as Russel said, it gives a problem in the part-out system which will have
to be fixed, someday (if ever), and that also is a point for concern.

Many things on Bricklink have been broken and a fix is never heard of. So introducing
a new idea while older broken things don't get fixed is a very big issue
for the user base.

And I know that you can't fix the broken things, but do understand that for
me (as a user) it is very annoying to see.

I am sorry to hear you say that. I am also annoyed at the lack of support that
I and the other volunteer admins get from corporate.

Russel stated that is was good for the future of Bricklink, but there are so
many things, that if ain't fixed are quite damaging for the Bricklink future
that it's sometimes better not to introduce something new before something
old is working in good order.

I agree, but once again, the volunteer admins have the time and energy to try
to do things that help the user base even if the corporate side does not keep
up. We will keep trying new ideas, also, as the Catalog Roadmap lays out:

https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2476

Remember, this isn't a developer roadmap. It is a roadmap for things that
the volunteer admins can do and solve.

Regards,
Bas

Thanks for your comments.

Cheers,
Randy

Author:

uvt203

Posted:

Aug 21, 2019 07:12

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

53 times

Topic:

In Inventories, BasKrie writes:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

Hi Randy,

The problem is that it was not just an idea you were trying out.
It started to be implemented without notification or explanation and caused issues
for sellers and buyers.
A user had to find out and made a comment about it.
Most of the 'whining and moaning' from the user base, not just to this
'idea' but more in general, is about not communicating to said user base.
Time and time again the user base is confronted with changes that are not always
understood and/or apreciated. In some cases the user base does not even understand
why something needs to be changed, beacause it is not allways clear what the
benefit of it is.
And as Russel said, it gives a problem in the part-out system which will have
to be fixed, someday (if ever), and that also is a point for concern.
Many things on Bricklink have been broken and a fix is never heard of. So introducing
a new idea while older broken things don't get fixed is a very big issue
for the user base.
And I know that you can't fix the broken things, but do understand that for
me (as a user) it is very annoying to see.
Russel stated that is was good for the future of Bricklink, but there are so
many things, that if ain't fixed are quite damaging for the Bricklink future
that it's sometimes better not to introduce something new before something
old is working in good order.

Regards,
Bas

Author:

Vosblokjes

Posted:

Aug 21, 2019 05:18

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

64 times

Topic:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

Author:

tEoS

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 23:41

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

54 times

Topic:

I like the idea of adding and inventorying these boxes (especially the ones w/o
a peek hole), though I wish it could have been done years ago. Still, as they
say, better late than never.

Wow, people will throw an instant tirade about any new idea we try out. It is
no wonder that the corporate BrickLink employees and developers don't want
to try anything new, either. Everything that is tried receives just whinging
and moaning from the user base. I think I now have a good idea about what drove
Jaclyn away from the site.

In any case, we have heard all of the feedback and will be reversing course on
the inventories. We had planned to make an announcement in a few days concerning
this to ask for feedback on what had been done, but we wanted stuff in place
for users to look at. So this thread was not a complete loss to us, but you did
jump the gun on us, Jonas.

Please bear with us as we work out the kinks.

Cheers,
Randy

Author:

JulieK

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 20:25

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

52 times

Topic:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In any case, we have heard all of the feedback and will be reversing course on
the inventories. We had planned to make an announcement in a few days concerning
this to ask for feedback on what had been done, but we wanted stuff in place
for users to look at. So this thread was not a complete loss to us, but you did
jump the gun on us, Jonas.

Please bear with us as we work out the kinks.

Cheers,
Randy

Why not treat the sleeves like the rubber band holders? List them as extra items.
No harm, no foul, imo.

41753 Rubber Band / Belt Holder 2 x 6 x 2 1/3
Parts: Rubber Band & Belt

Author:

randyf

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 15:52

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

65 times

Topic:

In Inventories, mwright5 writes:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

Wow! Just seeing that cardboard cape boxes have been added to the catalog.
I usually would prefer to refrain from making a derogatory comment on something
so trivial, but I have to say, that is a new kind of stupid. Give me a break.

It is truly bizarre. There is this sleeve, for example:

6268510 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 6268510 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

which contains two minifigure capes. However, this sleeve which is called "Cardboard
Sleeve for Set 70837" doesn't actually appear in set 70837 since it contains
minifigure parts, which are listed with the minifigures. So we now have an entry
for a part that is not included in any sets and so is unlikely to ever be listed
in that way.

Then we have the same where the sleeves contain a single cape, for example:

6259727 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 6259727 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

Again it doesn't belong to any sets despite the name, since it belongs to
a minifigure.

It seems to be a case of making a rule then insisting on sticking to it for all
parts and sets, no matter how stupid the application of the rule is.

I've got a great idea! To follow suit, lets start cataloging and selling
the numbered plastic bags that the pieces come in in each box. Actually, why
stop there, lets catalog the empty collectible minifig poly bags too. After
all that's technically LEGO is it not? Give me a break!!!!!!!!!

You do realize these catalog entries are for the sealed cardboard sleeves with
contents in them, right?

Because I don't think you do...

- Randy

Author:

Turez

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 15:43

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

60 times

Topic:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In Inventories, Turez writes:

Hi everyone,

is that really necessary? With these cardboard sleeves in inventories it is no
longer possible to see the complete part list at once. You always have to open
an extra inventory to look up what is inside the cardboard sleeve (or sometimes
even two or more extra inventories). Not very user-friendly, imho...

I also don't see a technical reason why cardboard sleeves should be part
of an inventory. They are not listed in official part lists and if they contain
more than one part, adding them will bring the piece count down.

Examples:
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=60052-1
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=10220-1
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=41381-1

New guideline: https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1562#regularItems

Regards,
Jonas

Hi Randy, hi everyone,

I'm sorry I preempted your planned announcement. But since you have chosen
some pretty recent or popular sets (like the VW Bus), I'm quite sure someone
else would have asked soon about these changes if I had not started the discussion.

To explain the situation from my point of view: I saw the new catalog entries
for the cardboard sleeves a few days ago. No announcement, but I didn't think
much of it. However yesterday, I was surprised to see that they started to appear
in many inventories very quickly. I checked the inventory guidelines and found
the new rule for cardboard sleeves. Again: No announcement, no explanation
or something like this. So I just wanted to share my opinion and explained why
I thought these changes are not a very good idea.

Of course I am not generally against new ideas and of course you can test and
try everything you want - but it would be very helpful to announce it before
major changes are visible in the catalog. Otherwise you have to accept that someone
will ask about them.

In any case, we have heard all of the feedback and will be reversing course on
the inventories.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to hear.

Regards,
Jonas

Author:

mwright5

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 15:39

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

39 times

Topic:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

It is truly bizarre. There is this sleeve, for example:

6268510 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 6268510 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

6259727 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 6259727 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

Author:

paulvdb

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 15:26

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

41 times

Topic:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

If you look up those axles you get told they are in 24 sets (and also 3 parts).
If I wanted to know which sets that axle came from I would naturally look at
the 24 sets but probably not look at the parts they come from. I wouldn't
find that they come in set 60051 when in reality they do.

That is actually not how the system works. If you look at the sets that these
axles come in it will still list 60051 among them even though the cardboard sleeve
is listed in the set inventory. See also other parts that are not listed individually
in set inventories but are on sprues or in multipacks. For example

3742 Plant Flower Small
Parts: Plant

Author:

yorbrick

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 15:06

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

46 times

Topic:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

In Inventories, randyf writes:

In Inventories, yorbrick writes:

But what happens when more sets come along that use this sleeve? They need to
be added to the part description. Why not just call it "Cardboard Sleeve 4580966"
removing the set names?

Thank you for this suggestion. We were trying to come up with a way to not have
to repeat information in the names, but I think this idea is the easiest solution.
We will have to come up with another way to track what sets these come in in
the meantime. I am guessing the additional notes for the sleeves will probably
be the way to go.

Cheers,
Randy

If the actual parts in the sleeve are listed in the inventory and the (sealed)
sleeves are listed as an alternate for each of the sets they are in, won't
that information already be stored in the catalogue in a meaningful way? Then
someone can look up the number on the sleeve and search for it. It won't
be in any sets as a regular part but will be listed as an alternate for all the
sets it appears in. That way, the set numbers need not be kept in the title or
as additional notes.

Or have I totally misunderstood how alternates work?

Yes, you have misunderstood alternates. Alternate parts are parts that are completely
substituted for other parts in a set. These sleeves come in every set they came
in.

As Russell said, we will need to wait for new functionality before we can ever
add these to inventories in a meaningful way that makes it easy for sellers to
part them.

Cheers,
Randy

Sorry I got confused. I meant actually counterpart and not alternate.

So as an example could you have

4580966 (Inv) Cardboard Sleeve 4580966 with Contents
Parts: Cardboard Sleeve

as a counterpart to having four of these
[x1687]

???

Of course, this doesn't meet the current definition of what a counterpart
is either - although in a way it does, if you open the sleeve then you have permanently
changed it. But this would mean listing the filled sleeve as the regular unperturbed
item and the four rods as counterparts (and what to do with the empty sleeve,
throw it away like an unused sprue?).

Again I may well have it wrong, as I tend to focus on which parts LEGO gives
us rather than how LEGO packages them in the box.

I can see it is a mess, trying to fit something new(ish) around existing rules
that were not put in place to do what is needed.

If you look up those axles you get told they are in 24 sets (and also 3 parts).
If I wanted to know which sets that axle came from I would naturally look at
the 24 sets but probably not look at the parts they come from. I wouldn't
find that they come in set 60051 when in reality they do.

Author:

randyf

Posted:

Aug 20, 2019 14:38

Subject:

Re: Cardboard sleeves in inventories

Viewed:

48 times

Topic: