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| | | Author: | ausdarren  | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 04:49 | | Subject: | New Parts | | Viewed: | 189 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| A major gripe from me,
Just opened my delivery from an Australian seller and all the new parts are connected
to each other.
Are they still new parts as have been connected for over a week???
Why to some sellers do this is it to upset us as has still put in separate bags.
SO So stupid, aw well another seller to steer clear of.
Mad
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 05:01 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| In Buying, ausdarren writes:
| | A major gripe from me,
Just opened my delivery from an Australian seller and all the new parts are connected
to each other.
Are they still new parts as have been connected for over a week???
Why to some sellers do this is it to upset us as has still put in separate bags.
SO So stupid, aw well another seller to steer clear of.
Mad
|
They are not new if the seller knowingly stacked them for 5 seconds, let alone
a week.
Complain, and least favourite the store. Leave feedback saying that they stack
new parts.
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| | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 08:08 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 117 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, yorbrick writes:
| | In Buying, ausdarren writes:
| | A major gripe from me,
Just opened my delivery from an Australian seller and all the new parts are connected
to each other.
Are they still new parts as have been connected for over a week???
Why to some sellers do this is it to upset us as has still put in separate bags.
SO So stupid, aw well another seller to steer clear of.
Mad
|
They are not new if the seller knowingly stacked them for 5 seconds, let alone
a week.
Complain, and least favourite the store. Leave feedback saying that they stack
new parts.
|
You always appear to push this same overly pedantic narrative and whilst I don’t
recommend sellers bulk stack or even stack their bricks especially on really
silly unhelpful things like 1x1 plates if I ordered some new parts such as 40
or so different yellow minifig heads and the seller stacked a couple of heads
in order that they can all be bagged together to save on plastic whilst aiding
the buyer with being able to quickly match up those that are the same type from
the other heads I wouldn’t be so pedantic as to hold that against anyone and
refuse to accept them as new? Likewise if I opened a new Lego set for parting
out and a minifigure head ended up fixed inside a helmet I wouldn’t suddenly
say to myself okay that part is no longer new!
Common sense should prevail, the part was purchased as new the condition appears
to remain the same(new) and I’m happy with what I’ve received. There are worse
things that could occur to a part such as dropping and picking it up off the
floor, is that still new? How many times does that occur when picking parts?
Have you also seen how the machines throw the bricks around during the manufacturing
process?
The rules are certainly there as important guidelines to be followed but there
are also grey areas just the same as an assembled minifigure can be classed as
new. At the end of the day the Intentional connection of bricks for our own play
use such as for building/display purposes is very different from new bricks that
have been stacked accidentally or perhaps for certain logistical reasons and
regardless of whether we want to believe every single new part listed on Bricklink
has never been connected in some form it would be naïve to assume that is always
the case regardless of whether they arrive stacked or not. At the end of the
day this all comes down to the sellers good/bad intentions as only they know
whether they are trying to pass off used as new?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 19:01 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, yorbrick writes:
| | In Buying, ausdarren writes:
| | A major gripe from me,
Just opened my delivery from an Australian seller and all the new parts are connected
to each other.
Are they still new parts as have been connected for over a week???
Why to some sellers do this is it to upset us as has still put in separate bags.
SO So stupid, aw well another seller to steer clear of.
Mad
|
They are not new if the seller knowingly stacked them for 5 seconds, let alone
a week.
Complain, and least favourite the store. Leave feedback saying that they stack
new parts.
|
You always appear to push this same overly pedantic narrative and whilst I don’t
recommend sellers bulk stack or even stack their bricks especially on really
silly unhelpful things like 1x1 plates if I ordered some new parts such as 40
or so different yellow minifig heads and the seller stacked a couple of heads
in order that they can all be bagged together to save on plastic whilst aiding
the buyer with being able to quickly match up those that are the same type from
the other heads I wouldn’t be so pedantic as to hold that against anyone and
refuse to accept them as new? Likewise if I opened a new Lego set for parting
out and a minifigure head ended up fixed inside a helmet I wouldn’t suddenly
say to myself okay that part is no longer new!
Common sense should prevail, the part was purchased as new the condition appears
to remain the same(new) and I’m happy with what I’ve received. There are worse
things that could occur to a part such as dropping and picking it up off the
floor, is that still new? How many times does that occur when picking parts?
Have you also seen how the machines throw the bricks around during the manufacturing
process?
The rules are certainly there as important guidelines to be followed but there
are also grey areas just the same as an assembled minifigure can be classed as
new. At the end of the day the Intentional connection of bricks for our own play
use such as for building/display purposes is very different from new bricks that
have been stacked accidentally or perhaps for certain logistical reasons and
regardless of whether we want to believe every single new part listed on Bricklink
has never been connected in some form it would be naïve to assume that is always
the case regardless of whether they arrive stacked or not. At the end of the
day this all comes down to the sellers good/bad intentions as only they know
whether they are trying to pass off used as new?
|
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 19:07 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| | | If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
100% agree with you on this one.
Already received New 1x2 Plates stacked by 50 maybe.
Or worse, 4x6 Plates - some being stacked a bit loose, but some really compressed
(maybe in transit?)
Imagine the joy to detach them 
This and assembled Minifigures - I don't think I dislike something more.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 19:10 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Saitobricks.ca | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 19:11 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
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| In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | This and assembled Minifigures - I don't think I dislike something more.
|
not even periods of time where there we no active revolution in France?
|
Now I know why so many of your posts get cancelled. 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2024 19:13 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, Saitobricks.ca writes:
| | In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | This and assembled Minifigures - I don't think I dislike something more.
|
not even periods of time where there we no active revolution in France?
|
Now I know why so many of your posts get cancelled.
|
usually, I'm the one who cancels them
i think the last one that an admin removed that wasn't a response to a spam
post was a funny steroid joke
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 07:55 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
I’m well aware of what the Bricklink TOS state on the matter but the rules here
are ultimately in place to ensure that nobody attempts to undermine the market
place with knowingly selling used bricks as new and these rules/guidelines for
the most part give a good understanding of what is expected of them. However
Bricklink will be fully aware that they have no way of policing the matter. If
a seller whilst parting out a set sees a new part they’ve not seen before and
takes an interest in briefly attaching with another brick they are unlikely to
then go on to list those parts as used despite whatever you or anyone else might
want to believe and therefore to push that narrative/expectation is futile!
Now if the rules state a seller can assemble a minifigure and sell as New and
a seller can also buy an assembled minfigure from Lego break down those parts
and also sell them as New, This alone makes the guidelines subjective and open
to interpretation regardless of what you or anyone else may understand of those
rules or how heavily you may expect Bricklink to enforce those rules. Either
way nobody is going to be any the wiser about how that part has been handled
regardless of whether it arrives stacked or not! Ultimately we can only judge
sellers on the condition of the bricks we receive when it comes to matching their
claims of NEW! but if you want to complain about a couple of stacked bricks then
fine!
Personally I would be more concerned about the parts being sorted with clean
hands in a clean environment rather than worrying myself over the trivial matter
of whether a seller briefly attached some bricks for 5 seconds or not!
That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 14:54 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
I’m well aware of what the Bricklink TOS state on the matter but the rules here
are ultimately in place to ensure that nobody attempts to undermine the market
place with knowingly selling used bricks as new and these rules/guidelines for
the most part give a good understanding of what is expected of them. However
Bricklink will be fully aware that they have no way of policing the matter. If
a seller whilst parting out a set sees a new part they’ve not seen before and
takes an interest in briefly attaching with another brick they are unlikely to
then go on to list those parts as used despite whatever you or anyone else might
want to believe and therefore to push that narrative/expectation is futile!
|
It is an honor system, yes. But if you are caught being dishonorable, the ToS
will not support you.
| | Now if the rules state a seller can assemble a minifigure and sell as New and
a seller can also buy an assembled minfigure from Lego break down those parts
and also sell them as New, This alone makes the guidelines subjective and open
to interpretation regardless of what you or anyone else may understand of those
rules or how heavily you may expect Bricklink to enforce those rules.
|
Absolutely not. The ToS spells out the guidelines for both parts and minifigures.
Until the ToS is revised to say that minifigures cannot be assembled as new,
then minifigures can be assembled as new. It is really that easy to understand
and requires no interpretation of any kind.
| | Either
way nobody is going to be any the wiser about how that part has been handled
regardless of whether it arrives stacked or not! Ultimately we can only judge
sellers on the condition of the bricks we receive when it comes to matching their
claims of NEW! but if you want to complain about a couple of stacked bricks then
fine!
|
The ToS for items is based on the history of the part, *not* the quality. You
can have a perfectly mint used part that looks better than a brand new part out
of a set, but the ToS tells you exactly how to list them. The used one is used.
The new one is new. Any descriptors beyond that are left to each seller to add
to the listings to make sure that buyers are aware of the quality of the items.
| | Personally I would be more concerned about the parts being sorted with clean
hands in a clean environment rather than worrying myself over the trivial matter
of whether a seller briefly attached some bricks for 5 seconds or not!
|
Your opinion is just that, and the ToS clearly covers the last part.
| | That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
How many times do you need to read the ToS to understand it? Because you clearly
fail to comprehend that your definitions, interpretations, opinions, narratives,
or "common sense" do not supersede what is written for all to see.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 16:39 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
I’m well aware of what the Bricklink TOS state on the matter but the rules here
are ultimately in place to ensure that nobody attempts to undermine the market
place with knowingly selling used bricks as new and these rules/guidelines for
the most part give a good understanding of what is expected of them. However
Bricklink will be fully aware that they have no way of policing the matter. If
a seller whilst parting out a set sees a new part they’ve not seen before and
takes an interest in briefly attaching with another brick they are unlikely to
then go on to list those parts as used despite whatever you or anyone else might
want to believe and therefore to push that narrative/expectation is futile!
|
It is an honor system, yes. But if you are caught being dishonorable, the ToS
will not support you.
| | Now if the rules state a seller can assemble a minifigure and sell as New and
a seller can also buy an assembled minfigure from Lego break down those parts
and also sell them as New, This alone makes the guidelines subjective and open
to interpretation regardless of what you or anyone else may understand of those
rules or how heavily you may expect Bricklink to enforce those rules.
|
Absolutely not. The ToS spells out the guidelines for both parts and minifigures.
Until the ToS is revised to say that minifigures cannot be assembled as new,
then minifigures can be assembled as new. It is really that easy to understand
and requires no interpretation of any kind.
| | Either
way nobody is going to be any the wiser about how that part has been handled
regardless of whether it arrives stacked or not! Ultimately we can only judge
sellers on the condition of the bricks we receive when it comes to matching their
claims of NEW! but if you want to complain about a couple of stacked bricks then
fine!
|
The ToS for items is based on the history of the part, *not* the quality. You
can have a perfectly mint used part that looks better than a brand new part out
of a set, but the ToS tells you exactly how to list them. The used one is used.
The new one is new. Any descriptors beyond that are left to each seller to add
to the listings to make sure that buyers are aware of the quality of the items.
| | Personally I would be more concerned about the parts being sorted with clean
hands in a clean environment rather than worrying myself over the trivial matter
of whether a seller briefly attached some bricks for 5 seconds or not!
|
Your opinion is just that, and the ToS clearly covers the last part.
| | That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
How many times do you need to read the ToS to understand it? Because you clearly
fail to comprehend that your definitions, interpretations, opinions, narratives,
or "common sense" do not supersede what is written for all to see.
|
You keep preaching the TOS, I already fully understand the TOS but you still
fail to grasp anything I’ve said. Therefore perhaps read my comments more carefully
before commenting?
In simple terms unlike a set that is easily and defined as new or used based
on whether it’s been opened or not, It is impossible to put in place a truly
meaningful/reliable definition for loose parts being new vs used regardless of
Bricklinks best efforts to try and regardless of sellers following the TOS!
If you want to be so pedantic about it then it would probably be easier to classify
every handled loose piece as used! That would be far less ambiguous even if I
don’t want to see this!
Either way what I’m talking about here has nothing to do with the TOS in place
but rather the ambiguity that surrounds how one handling/assembling process is
considered to be new compared to another when in reality the part in question
remains the exact same quality condition part?
Compute? Please don’t ask me to explain again?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 16:53 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| | | | | | | That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
How many times do you need to read the ToS to understand it? Because you clearly
fail to comprehend that your definitions, interpretations, opinions, narratives,
or "common sense" do not supersede what is written for all to see.
|
You keep preaching the TOS, I already fully understand the TOS but you still
fail to grasp anything I’ve said. Therefore perhaps read my comments more carefully
before commenting?
|
TL;DR
Do NOT assemble new parts, for no (invalid) reason.
Do NOT (preferably) assemble Minifigures.
Don't play with your customers merchandise 
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 17:03 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | | | That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
How many times do you need to read the ToS to understand it? Because you clearly
fail to comprehend that your definitions, interpretations, opinions, narratives,
or "common sense" do not supersede what is written for all to see.
|
You keep preaching the TOS, I already fully understand the TOS but you still
fail to grasp anything I’ve said. Therefore perhaps read my comments more carefully
before commenting?
|
TL;DR
Do NOT assemble new parts, for no (invalid) reason.
Do NOT (preferably) assemble Minifigures.
Don't play with your customers merchandise
|
You make too many assumptions... Anyway I can't waste time here, I have minfigures
to assemble and orders to process! 
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 17:06 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| | | | | TL;DR
Do NOT assemble new parts, for no (invalid) reason.
Do NOT (preferably) assemble Minifigures.
Don't play with your customers merchandise
|
You make too many assumptions... Anyway I can't waste time here, I have minfigures
to assemble and orders to process!
|
It wasn't written for you, just a PSA
Please go stack for shipping your:
... that'll give me more buyers
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 17:16 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | TL;DR
Do NOT assemble new parts, for no (invalid) reason.
Do NOT (preferably) assemble Minifigures.
Don't play with your customers merchandise
|
You make too many assumptions... Anyway I can't waste time here, I have minfigures
to assemble and orders to process!
|
It wasn't written for you, just a PSA
Please go stack for shipping your:
... that'll give me more buyers
|
I don't stack and I don't tend to stock generic parts... You can have
those orders its fine although I'm sure you don't need any more buyers?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 22:27 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
I’m well aware of what the Bricklink TOS state on the matter but the rules here
are ultimately in place to ensure that nobody attempts to undermine the market
place with knowingly selling used bricks as new and these rules/guidelines for
the most part give a good understanding of what is expected of them. However
Bricklink will be fully aware that they have no way of policing the matter. If
a seller whilst parting out a set sees a new part they’ve not seen before and
takes an interest in briefly attaching with another brick they are unlikely to
then go on to list those parts as used despite whatever you or anyone else might
want to believe and therefore to push that narrative/expectation is futile!
|
It is an honor system, yes. But if you are caught being dishonorable, the ToS
will not support you.
| | Now if the rules state a seller can assemble a minifigure and sell as New and
a seller can also buy an assembled minfigure from Lego break down those parts
and also sell them as New, This alone makes the guidelines subjective and open
to interpretation regardless of what you or anyone else may understand of those
rules or how heavily you may expect Bricklink to enforce those rules.
|
Absolutely not. The ToS spells out the guidelines for both parts and minifigures.
Until the ToS is revised to say that minifigures cannot be assembled as new,
then minifigures can be assembled as new. It is really that easy to understand
and requires no interpretation of any kind.
| | Either
way nobody is going to be any the wiser about how that part has been handled
regardless of whether it arrives stacked or not! Ultimately we can only judge
sellers on the condition of the bricks we receive when it comes to matching their
claims of NEW! but if you want to complain about a couple of stacked bricks then
fine!
|
The ToS for items is based on the history of the part, *not* the quality. You
can have a perfectly mint used part that looks better than a brand new part out
of a set, but the ToS tells you exactly how to list them. The used one is used.
The new one is new. Any descriptors beyond that are left to each seller to add
to the listings to make sure that buyers are aware of the quality of the items.
| | Personally I would be more concerned about the parts being sorted with clean
hands in a clean environment rather than worrying myself over the trivial matter
of whether a seller briefly attached some bricks for 5 seconds or not!
|
Your opinion is just that, and the ToS clearly covers the last part.
| | That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
How many times do you need to read the ToS to understand it? Because you clearly
fail to comprehend that your definitions, interpretations, opinions, narratives,
or "common sense" do not supersede what is written for all to see.
|
You keep preaching the TOS, I already fully understand the TOS but you still
fail to grasp anything I’ve said. Therefore perhaps read my comments more carefully
before commenting?
In simple terms unlike a set that is easily and defined as new or used based
on whether it’s been opened or not, It is impossible to put in place a truly
meaningful/reliable definition for loose parts being new vs used regardless of
Bricklinks best efforts to try and regardless of sellers following the TOS!
|
It isn't impossible. It is written in the ToS exactly as it is meant. By
definition, that makes it possible.
| | If you want to be so pedantic about it then it would probably be easier to classify
every handled loose piece as used! That would be far less ambiguous even if I
don’t want to see this!
Either way what I’m talking about here has nothing to do with the TOS in place
but rather the ambiguity that surrounds how one handling/assembling process is
considered to be new compared to another when in reality the part in question
remains the exact same quality condition part?
Compute? Please don’t ask me to explain again?
|
The only ambiguity is the ambiguity that you read into it and keep thinking about.
Once again, the terms "new" and "used" on BrickLink are not meant
to describe condition; they are meant to describe provenance.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 23:28 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
I’m well aware of what the Bricklink TOS state on the matter but the rules here
are ultimately in place to ensure that nobody attempts to undermine the market
place with knowingly selling used bricks as new and these rules/guidelines for
the most part give a good understanding of what is expected of them. However
Bricklink will be fully aware that they have no way of policing the matter. If
a seller whilst parting out a set sees a new part they’ve not seen before and
takes an interest in briefly attaching with another brick they are unlikely to
then go on to list those parts as used despite whatever you or anyone else might
want to believe and therefore to push that narrative/expectation is futile!
|
It is an honor system, yes. But if you are caught being dishonorable, the ToS
will not support you.
| | Now if the rules state a seller can assemble a minifigure and sell as New and
a seller can also buy an assembled minfigure from Lego break down those parts
and also sell them as New, This alone makes the guidelines subjective and open
to interpretation regardless of what you or anyone else may understand of those
rules or how heavily you may expect Bricklink to enforce those rules.
|
Absolutely not. The ToS spells out the guidelines for both parts and minifigures.
Until the ToS is revised to say that minifigures cannot be assembled as new,
then minifigures can be assembled as new. It is really that easy to understand
and requires no interpretation of any kind.
| | Either
way nobody is going to be any the wiser about how that part has been handled
regardless of whether it arrives stacked or not! Ultimately we can only judge
sellers on the condition of the bricks we receive when it comes to matching their
claims of NEW! but if you want to complain about a couple of stacked bricks then
fine!
|
The ToS for items is based on the history of the part, *not* the quality. You
can have a perfectly mint used part that looks better than a brand new part out
of a set, but the ToS tells you exactly how to list them. The used one is used.
The new one is new. Any descriptors beyond that are left to each seller to add
to the listings to make sure that buyers are aware of the quality of the items.
| | Personally I would be more concerned about the parts being sorted with clean
hands in a clean environment rather than worrying myself over the trivial matter
of whether a seller briefly attached some bricks for 5 seconds or not!
|
Your opinion is just that, and the ToS clearly covers the last part.
| | That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
How many times do you need to read the ToS to understand it? Because you clearly
fail to comprehend that your definitions, interpretations, opinions, narratives,
or "common sense" do not supersede what is written for all to see.
|
You keep preaching the TOS, I already fully understand the TOS but you still
fail to grasp anything I’ve said. Therefore perhaps read my comments more carefully
before commenting?
In simple terms unlike a set that is easily and defined as new or used based
on whether it’s been opened or not, It is impossible to put in place a truly
meaningful/reliable definition for loose parts being new vs used regardless of
Bricklinks best efforts to try and regardless of sellers following the TOS!
|
It isn't impossible. It is written in the ToS exactly as it is meant. By
definition, that makes it possible.
| | If you want to be so pedantic about it then it would probably be easier to classify
every handled loose piece as used! That would be far less ambiguous even if I
don’t want to see this!
Either way what I’m talking about here has nothing to do with the TOS in place
but rather the ambiguity that surrounds how one handling/assembling process is
considered to be new compared to another when in reality the part in question
remains the exact same quality condition part?
Compute? Please don’t ask me to explain again?
|
The only ambiguity is the ambiguity that you read into it and keep thinking about.
Once again, the terms "new" and "used" on BrickLink are not meant
to describe condition; they are meant to describe provenance.
|
Yes thank you for preaching the rules once again however I'm fully aware
of that too but since you claim there is no ambiguity perhaps you could answer
a simple yes or no to my questions?
If you open a sealed set and find a head piece wedged inside a helmet are both
those parts still classed as new?
If you open a set and accidentally wedge a head piece inside a helmet whilst
handling the Lego are both those parts still classed as new?
If you buy new parts from a seller on Bricklink and find a head has accidentally
become wedged inside a helmet are both those parts still new?
In the end it doesn't matter whether you answer yes or no to these questions
I very much doubt there is a single seller on this platform that will give a
second thought about continuing to list those parts as new and to believe otherwise
is just plain naivety!
Yes sellers will follow the rules closely but common sense dictates when it is
necessary and when it isn't necessary to list a perfectly new part as used!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 30, 2024 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
I’m well aware of what the Bricklink TOS state on the matter but the rules here
are ultimately in place to ensure that nobody attempts to undermine the market
place with knowingly selling used bricks as new and these rules/guidelines for
the most part give a good understanding of what is expected of them. However
Bricklink will be fully aware that they have no way of policing the matter. If
a seller whilst parting out a set sees a new part they’ve not seen before and
takes an interest in briefly attaching with another brick they are unlikely to
then go on to list those parts as used despite whatever you or anyone else might
want to believe and therefore to push that narrative/expectation is futile!
|
It is an honor system, yes. But if you are caught being dishonorable, the ToS
will not support you.
| | Now if the rules state a seller can assemble a minifigure and sell as New and
a seller can also buy an assembled minfigure from Lego break down those parts
and also sell them as New, This alone makes the guidelines subjective and open
to interpretation regardless of what you or anyone else may understand of those
rules or how heavily you may expect Bricklink to enforce those rules.
|
Absolutely not. The ToS spells out the guidelines for both parts and minifigures.
Until the ToS is revised to say that minifigures cannot be assembled as new,
then minifigures can be assembled as new. It is really that easy to understand
and requires no interpretation of any kind.
| | Either
way nobody is going to be any the wiser about how that part has been handled
regardless of whether it arrives stacked or not! Ultimately we can only judge
sellers on the condition of the bricks we receive when it comes to matching their
claims of NEW! but if you want to complain about a couple of stacked bricks then
fine!
|
The ToS for items is based on the history of the part, *not* the quality. You
can have a perfectly mint used part that looks better than a brand new part out
of a set, but the ToS tells you exactly how to list them. The used one is used.
The new one is new. Any descriptors beyond that are left to each seller to add
to the listings to make sure that buyers are aware of the quality of the items.
| | Personally I would be more concerned about the parts being sorted with clean
hands in a clean environment rather than worrying myself over the trivial matter
of whether a seller briefly attached some bricks for 5 seconds or not!
|
Your opinion is just that, and the ToS clearly covers the last part.
| | That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
How many times do you need to read the ToS to understand it? Because you clearly
fail to comprehend that your definitions, interpretations, opinions, narratives,
or "common sense" do not supersede what is written for all to see.
|
You keep preaching the TOS, I already fully understand the TOS but you still
fail to grasp anything I’ve said. Therefore perhaps read my comments more carefully
before commenting?
In simple terms unlike a set that is easily and defined as new or used based
on whether it’s been opened or not, It is impossible to put in place a truly
meaningful/reliable definition for loose parts being new vs used regardless of
Bricklinks best efforts to try and regardless of sellers following the TOS!
|
It isn't impossible. It is written in the ToS exactly as it is meant. By
definition, that makes it possible.
| | If you want to be so pedantic about it then it would probably be easier to classify
every handled loose piece as used! That would be far less ambiguous even if I
don’t want to see this!
Either way what I’m talking about here has nothing to do with the TOS in place
but rather the ambiguity that surrounds how one handling/assembling process is
considered to be new compared to another when in reality the part in question
remains the exact same quality condition part?
Compute? Please don’t ask me to explain again?
|
The only ambiguity is the ambiguity that you read into it and keep thinking about.
Once again, the terms "new" and "used" on BrickLink are not meant
to describe condition; they are meant to describe provenance.
|
Yes thank you for preaching the rules once again however I'm fully aware
of that too but since you claim there is no ambiguity perhaps you could answer
a simple yes or no to my questions?
|
Sure! I love games!
| | If you open a sealed set and find a head piece wedged inside a helmet are both
those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, yes. They have not been handled for sorting yet, so they
can be sorted. Refer to "If a minifigure or part assembly was originally
sold assembled by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed
as new." In other words, the provenance rules.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident in the sealed set. But my personal opinion doesn't matter here.
| | If you open a set and accidentally wedge a head piece inside a helmet whilst
handling the Lego are both those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have now been handled for sorting, so whether
I accidentally or intentionally wedge two pieces together after they come out
of the package is too bad for me. I combined them; the LEGO group didn't.
Therefore, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident while sorting. But, once again, my personal opinion doesn't matter
here.
| | If you buy new parts from a seller on Bricklink and find a head has accidentally
become wedged inside a helmet are both those parts still new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have already been handled for sorting, so whether
two pieces get wedged together during transit from one person to another accidentally
or intentionally makes them no longer new. They got combined post-LEGO group.
So, once again, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident during shipping. But, one more time, my personal opinion doesn't
matter here.
| | In the end it doesn't matter whether you answer yes or no to these questions
I very much doubt there is a single seller on this platform that will give a
second thought about continuing to list those parts as new and to believe otherwise
is just plain naivety!
|
Anybody can do what they want, but there are consequences to being called out
for it, including negative feedback. As I said before, it is the honor system,
but knowingly clicking new pieces together to send them to someone who purchased
them as new should raise a little red flag on anyone's moral compass who
sells here.
| | Yes sellers will follow the rules closely but common sense dictates when it is
necessary and when it isn't necessary to list a perfectly new part as used!
|
What's that quote? Oh, here it is.
"Common sense is not so common."
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 30, 2024 13:41 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| | | I would list them as used with a note that they are like new
|
“Proceeds to break rules”
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 01:45 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | I would list them as used with a note that they are like new
|
“Proceeds to break rules”
|
My bad on my imaginary store. Will "excellent condition" be okay?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 01:48 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | I would list them as used with a note that they are like new
|
“Proceeds to break rules”
|
My bad on my imaginary store. Will "excellent condition" be okay?
|
Much better now I won’t have to report the listing
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 07:33 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | I would list them as used with a note that they are like new
|
“Proceeds to break rules”
|
My bad on my imaginary store. Will "excellent condition" be okay?
|
Says it all really doesn’t it! Preaching the rules back to sellers when you don’t
even sell or understand them yourself?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 16:33 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | I would list them as used with a note that they are like new
|
“Proceeds to break rules”
|
My bad on my imaginary store. Will "excellent condition" be okay?
|
Says it all really doesn’t it! Preaching the rules back to sellers when you don’t
even sell or understand them yourself?
|
Ah, good ol' personal insults.
In that case, let me know when you become a significant catalog contributor so
that I know to make your opinions on such matters be taken seriously.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1451470
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1450620
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1450587
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2024 07:06 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | I would list them as used with a note that they are like new
|
“Proceeds to break rules”
|
My bad on my imaginary store. Will "excellent condition" be okay?
|
Says it all really doesn’t it! Preaching the rules back to sellers when you don’t
even sell or understand them yourself?
|
Ah, good ol' personal insults.
|
I don't see that as an insult at all, its just a reasonable and valid observation!
I'm not sure what relevance my comments in those post have? Either way we
all have different roles here and my primary role is to serve the buying community.
Your primary role (which you've signed up to do) is to maintain the catalog
in order to make that possible! You may do it for other reasons such as an overall
interest in Lego, the catalog along with its documented variants but all this
comes secondary regardless of whether you want to take my opinion towards things
like variant mergers seriously or not!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 07:38 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
|
| | | | Yes thank you for preaching the rules once again however I'm fully aware
of that too but since you claim there is no ambiguity perhaps you could answer
a simple yes or no to my questions?
|
Sure! I love games!
| | If you open a sealed set and find a head piece wedged inside a helmet are both
those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, yes. They have not been handled for sorting yet, so they
can be sorted. Refer to "If a minifigure or part assembly was originally
sold assembled by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed
as new." In other words, the provenance rules.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident in the sealed set. But my personal opinion doesn't matter here.
| | If you open a set and accidentally wedge a head piece inside a helmet whilst
handling the Lego are both those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have now been handled for sorting, so whether
I accidentally or intentionally wedge two pieces together after they come out
of the package is too bad for me. I combined them; the LEGO group didn't.
Therefore, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident while sorting. But, once again, my personal opinion doesn't matter
here.
| | If you buy new parts from a seller on Bricklink and find a head has accidentally
become wedged inside a helmet are both those parts still new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have already been handled for sorting, so whether
two pieces get wedged together during transit from one person to another accidentally
or intentionally makes them no longer new. They got combined post-LEGO group.
So, once again, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident during shipping. But, one more time, my personal opinion doesn't
matter here.
| | In the end it doesn't matter whether you answer yes or no to these questions
I very much doubt there is a single seller on this platform that will give a
second thought about continuing to list those parts as new and to believe otherwise
is just plain naivety!
|
Anybody can do what they want, but there are consequences to being called out
for it, including negative feedback. As I said before, it is the honor system,
but knowingly clicking new pieces together to send them to someone who purchased
them as new should raise a little red flag on anyone's moral compass who
sells here.
| | Yes sellers will follow the rules closely but common sense dictates when it is
necessary and when it isn't necessary to list a perfectly new part as used!
|
What's that quote? Oh, here it is.
"Common sense is not so common."
|
No ambiguity?? and yet you couldn’t even give a simple yes/no answer? In fact
you felt the need to give two answers for each question!
By attempting to describe your parts in this way you only confuse the buyer not
to mention bending the rules yourself in the process. In fact by going to such
lengths to appear this unnecessarily honest and detailed only makes the way you
list your parts appear further questionable and disingenuous!?
It’s a bit like a shop keeper putting a label on a can of beans saying “This
can of beans was new but was briefly dropped on the floor and is now used” People
will be like “Do I really need to know this and why do I need to know this, What
is actually going on here?”
Overall I find what you claim you would do to be unrealistic and disingenuous
and yet if you truly are that pedantic where you hold this kind of stance towards
sellers then I’m sure there are many here that would sooner not deal with you
rather than risk giving you the opportunity to come back to them saying “Whilst
you may have sent these parts new, two parts have become attached and so I have
now received used!”
* STOP LIST ALERT! *
If nobody can tell the difference between the part in those three different scenarios
(Because let’s be honest there will be no difference) what makes you think the
buyer can and what makes you think they even care or that Bricklink even cares?
Ultimately Bricklink just wants a safe market place with happy customers and
sellers only need let their feedback do the talking in that regards!
Those that try to pass off used bricks as new will soon be discovered and called
into question and the rules for the most part do their job at ensuring sellers
list their parts appropriately!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 17:19 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
|
| | | | Yes thank you for preaching the rules once again however I'm fully aware
of that too but since you claim there is no ambiguity perhaps you could answer
a simple yes or no to my questions?
|
Sure! I love games!
| | If you open a sealed set and find a head piece wedged inside a helmet are both
those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, yes. They have not been handled for sorting yet, so they
can be sorted. Refer to "If a minifigure or part assembly was originally
sold assembled by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed
as new." In other words, the provenance rules.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident in the sealed set. But my personal opinion doesn't matter here.
| | If you open a set and accidentally wedge a head piece inside a helmet whilst
handling the Lego are both those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have now been handled for sorting, so whether
I accidentally or intentionally wedge two pieces together after they come out
of the package is too bad for me. I combined them; the LEGO group didn't.
Therefore, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident while sorting. But, once again, my personal opinion doesn't matter
here.
| | If you buy new parts from a seller on Bricklink and find a head has accidentally
become wedged inside a helmet are both those parts still new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have already been handled for sorting, so whether
two pieces get wedged together during transit from one person to another accidentally
or intentionally makes them no longer new. They got combined post-LEGO group.
So, once again, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident during shipping. But, one more time, my personal opinion doesn't
matter here.
| | In the end it doesn't matter whether you answer yes or no to these questions
I very much doubt there is a single seller on this platform that will give a
second thought about continuing to list those parts as new and to believe otherwise
is just plain naivety!
|
Anybody can do what they want, but there are consequences to being called out
for it, including negative feedback. As I said before, it is the honor system,
but knowingly clicking new pieces together to send them to someone who purchased
them as new should raise a little red flag on anyone's moral compass who
sells here.
| | Yes sellers will follow the rules closely but common sense dictates when it is
necessary and when it isn't necessary to list a perfectly new part as used!
|
What's that quote? Oh, here it is.
"Common sense is not so common."
|
No ambiguity?? and yet you couldn’t even give a simple yes/no answer? In fact
you felt the need to give two answers for each question!
|
I gave you a simple yes/no answer for each question based on the ToS, which is
all that matters no matter how much you shout and wave your fist at the ceiling
wishing for it to be different.
Answer 1: "According to the ToS, yes."
Answer 2: "According to the ToS, no."
Answer 3: "According to the ToS, no."
The answers I _personally_ gave showed that I would consider them all used if
I were the one writing the rules. So, I would even be harsher than the current
ToS. But I'm not writing the rules and those aren't the rules, so my
_personal_ answers don't matter and neither do yours. I think I made that
abundantly clear in my _personal_ answers.
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand your side of the issue, and I
would be supporting your arguments if they were spelled out in the ToS. They
aren't though. Until the ToS is amended to support your arguments, all any
of us can do is look to the current wording of the ToS which is pretty clear
to me. Hence, the simple yes/no answers given above.
| | By attempting to describe your parts in this way you only confuse the buyer not
to mention bending the rules yourself in the process. In fact by going to such
lengths to appear this unnecessarily honest and detailed only makes the way you
list your parts appear further questionable and disingenuous!?
|
I wouldn't know. I don't run a store.
But if I did, I am sure my feedback would speak for my service and quality just
like yours does. You have a very commendable store, and I would do what I could
to be on par with a store like yours. In other words, such hypotheticals don't
bother me.
| | It’s a bit like a shop keeper putting a label on a can of beans saying “This
can of beans was new but was briefly dropped on the floor and is now used” People
will be like “Do I really need to know this and why do I need to know this, What
is actually going on here?”
Overall I find what you claim you would do to be unrealistic and disingenuous
and yet if you truly are that pedantic where you hold this kind of stance towards
sellers then I’m sure there are many here that would sooner not deal with you
rather than risk giving you the opportunity to come back to them saying “Whilst
you may have sent these parts new, two parts have become attached and so I have
now received used!”
* STOP LIST ALERT! *
|
I think my feedback as a buyer speaks for itself.
And out of 466 orders I have placed, I have only ever caught two people selling
used stuff as new (I never buy used). My experiences on BrickLink have therefore
been amazing, and there are plenty of stores that enjoy my business even if a
few in the forums don't like something I say or perceive me to be "unrealistic
and disingenuous".
| | If nobody can tell the difference between the part in those three different scenarios
(Because let’s be honest there will be no difference) what makes you think the
buyer can and what makes you think they even care or that Bricklink even cares?
Ultimately Bricklink just wants a safe market place with happy customers and
sellers only need let their feedback do the talking in that regards!
Those that try to pass off used bricks as new will soon be discovered and called
into question and the rules for the most part do their job at ensuring sellers
list their parts appropriately!
|
Totally agree. Maybe you should champion to have the ToS updated with all of
this pent up energy you have concerning the ambiguity in it? Because I'm
not the one you need to convince, and I think many others would be on board with
an effort to look into it.
Now go spend some time keeping that store of yours at peak performance.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2024 07:14 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| | In Buying, infinibrix writes:
|
| | | | Yes thank you for preaching the rules once again however I'm fully aware
of that too but since you claim there is no ambiguity perhaps you could answer
a simple yes or no to my questions?
|
Sure! I love games!
| | If you open a sealed set and find a head piece wedged inside a helmet are both
those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, yes. They have not been handled for sorting yet, so they
can be sorted. Refer to "If a minifigure or part assembly was originally
sold assembled by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed
as new." In other words, the provenance rules.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident in the sealed set. But my personal opinion doesn't matter here.
| | If you open a set and accidentally wedge a head piece inside a helmet whilst
handling the Lego are both those parts still classed as new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have now been handled for sorting, so whether
I accidentally or intentionally wedge two pieces together after they come out
of the package is too bad for me. I combined them; the LEGO group didn't.
Therefore, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident while sorting. But, once again, my personal opinion doesn't matter
here.
| | If you buy new parts from a seller on Bricklink and find a head has accidentally
become wedged inside a helmet are both those parts still new?
|
BrickLink answer:
According to the ToS, no. They have already been handled for sorting, so whether
two pieces get wedged together during transit from one person to another accidentally
or intentionally makes them no longer new. They got combined post-LEGO group.
So, once again, the record of provenance has changed.
If I had my own store answer:
I would list them as used with a note that they are like new and were only assembled
by accident during shipping. But, one more time, my personal opinion doesn't
matter here.
| | In the end it doesn't matter whether you answer yes or no to these questions
I very much doubt there is a single seller on this platform that will give a
second thought about continuing to list those parts as new and to believe otherwise
is just plain naivety!
|
Anybody can do what they want, but there are consequences to being called out
for it, including negative feedback. As I said before, it is the honor system,
but knowingly clicking new pieces together to send them to someone who purchased
them as new should raise a little red flag on anyone's moral compass who
sells here.
| | Yes sellers will follow the rules closely but common sense dictates when it is
necessary and when it isn't necessary to list a perfectly new part as used!
|
What's that quote? Oh, here it is.
"Common sense is not so common."
|
No ambiguity?? and yet you couldn’t even give a simple yes/no answer? In fact
you felt the need to give two answers for each question!
|
I gave you a simple yes/no answer for each question based on the ToS, which is
all that matters no matter how much you shout and wave your fist at the ceiling
wishing for it to be different.
Answer 1: "According to the ToS, yes."
Answer 2: "According to the ToS, no."
Answer 3: "According to the ToS, no."
The answers I _personally_ gave showed that I would consider them all used if
I were the one writing the rules. So, I would even be harsher than the current
ToS. But I'm not writing the rules and those aren't the rules, so my
_personal_ answers don't matter and neither do yours. I think I made that
abundantly clear in my _personal_ answers.
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand your side of the issue, and I
would be supporting your arguments if they were spelled out in the ToS. They
aren't though. Until the ToS is amended to support your arguments, all any
of us can do is look to the current wording of the ToS which is pretty clear
to me. Hence, the simple yes/no answers given above.
| | By attempting to describe your parts in this way you only confuse the buyer not
to mention bending the rules yourself in the process. In fact by going to such
lengths to appear this unnecessarily honest and detailed only makes the way you
list your parts appear further questionable and disingenuous!?
|
I wouldn't know. I don't run a store.
But if I did, I am sure my feedback would speak for my service and quality just
like yours does. You have a very commendable store, and I would do what I could
to be on par with a store like yours. In other words, such hypotheticals don't
bother me.
| | It’s a bit like a shop keeper putting a label on a can of beans saying “This
can of beans was new but was briefly dropped on the floor and is now used” People
will be like “Do I really need to know this and why do I need to know this, What
is actually going on here?”
Overall I find what you claim you would do to be unrealistic and disingenuous
and yet if you truly are that pedantic where you hold this kind of stance towards
sellers then I’m sure there are many here that would sooner not deal with you
rather than risk giving you the opportunity to come back to them saying “Whilst
you may have sent these parts new, two parts have become attached and so I have
now received used!”
* STOP LIST ALERT! *
|
I think my feedback as a buyer speaks for itself.
And out of 466 orders I have placed, I have only ever caught two people selling
used stuff as new (I never buy used). My experiences on BrickLink have therefore
been amazing, and there are plenty of stores that enjoy my business even if a
few in the forums don't like something I say or perceive me to be "unrealistic
and disingenuous".
| | If nobody can tell the difference between the part in those three different scenarios
(Because let’s be honest there will be no difference) what makes you think the
buyer can and what makes you think they even care or that Bricklink even cares?
Ultimately Bricklink just wants a safe market place with happy customers and
sellers only need let their feedback do the talking in that regards!
Those that try to pass off used bricks as new will soon be discovered and called
into question and the rules for the most part do their job at ensuring sellers
list their parts appropriately!
|
Totally agree. Maybe you should champion to have the ToS updated with all of
this pent up energy you have concerning the ambiguity in it? Because I'm
not the one you need to convince, and I think many others would be on board with
an effort to look into it.
Now go spend some time keeping that store of yours at peak performance.
|
Your posts are so condescending and disingenuous that you wonder why I react
the way I do?
As I’ve previously already stated, the rules for the most part on this subject
already serve their purpose and so I have no real interest in the need to change
any of that. You keep feeding this line that every seller must be and will be
following the rules to a degree that is unrealistic because in my example scenarios
almost every seller is going to list those parts as new regardless of whether
they openly admit to that or not and regardless of you constantly trying to withhold
the TOS by throwing the rule book back at them!
Throughout this post you’ve gone from saying the rules are extremely clear (black
and white) and whilst that may be true from the perspective of how the rules
have actually been written/defined (You cannot intentionally allow grey areas
to be written into rules!) there are still some shades of grey and ambiguity
which you now also appear to acknowledge and yet had you of done that before
it may have saved us both a lot of time and effort going around in circles
With that said I think I’m done here now!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ausdarren | | Posted: | Jan 30, 2024 04:06 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, randyf writes:
| |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
I’m well aware of what the Bricklink TOS state on the matter but the rules here
are ultimately in place to ensure that nobody attempts to undermine the market
place with knowingly selling used bricks as new and these rules/guidelines for
the most part give a good understanding of what is expected of them. However
Bricklink will be fully aware that they have no way of policing the matter. If
a seller whilst parting out a set sees a new part they’ve not seen before and
takes an interest in briefly attaching with another brick they are unlikely to
then go on to list those parts as used despite whatever you or anyone else might
want to believe and therefore to push that narrative/expectation is futile!
Now if the rules state a seller can assemble a minifigure and sell as New and
a seller can also buy an assembled minfigure from Lego break down those parts
and also sell them as New, This alone makes the guidelines subjective and open
to interpretation regardless of what you or anyone else may understand of those
rules or how heavily you may expect Bricklink to enforce those rules. Either
way nobody is going to be any the wiser about how that part has been handled
regardless of whether it arrives stacked or not! Ultimately we can only judge
sellers on the condition of the bricks we receive when it comes to matching their
claims of NEW! but if you want to complain about a couple of stacked bricks then
fine!
Personally I would be more concerned about the parts being sorted with clean
hands in a clean environment rather than worrying myself over the trivial matter
of whether a seller briefly attached some bricks for 5 seconds or not!
That doesn’t make me a fan of stacking and although I assemble my minifigures
I’ve never once had a complaint about that but okay if stacking a few (easily
removeable) parts and assembling a minifigure make those bricks 'NEWER'
than the other, okay fine whatever you say and whatever Bricklink says its still
plain for all to see that in reality those bricks have'nt been treated any
differently?
|
just to point out 3x bricks were so tightly compressed i scratched 2 seperating
them, with a brick seperator.
Gee are you copping it.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 30, 2024 04:45 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, ausdarren writes:
| |
just to point out 3x bricks were so tightly compressed i scratched 2 seperating
them, with a brick seperator.
|
Yes I take no issue if they are easily removed like minfig heads but when your
forced to use a brick separator or nails that is just plain inconsiderate!
Yes and usually by the same tribe of forum dwellers but you get used to it around
here! One or two of that same tribe have'nt yet jumped in on me which is
surprising but there's still time I guess!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 30, 2024 11:59 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| | | One or two of that same tribe have'nt yet jumped in on me which is
surprising but there's still time I guess!
|
Mwhahahahahahahahaahhahhahahahahahaa
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 07:32 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | One or two of that same tribe have'nt yet jumped in on me which is
surprising but there's still time I guess!
|
Mwhahahahahahahahaahhahhahahahahahaa
|
BTW didn’t specifically have you in mind.... But now that you mention it!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2024 11:34 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, Nubs_Select writes:
| | | | One or two of that same tribe have'nt yet jumped in on me which is
surprising but there's still time I guess!
|
Mwhahahahahahahahaahhahhahahahahahaa
|
BTW didn’t specifically have you in mind.... But now that you mention it!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2024 08:40 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| | |
This doesn't come down to anyone's narrative, common sense, intentions,
or anything else.
The BrickLink ToS clearly states what the condition of "New" means for
parts:
-----
Follow along:
(1) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service.page (Section 6)
(2) https://www.bricklink.com/v3/terms_of_service_seller.page (Section 1.2.10)
(3) https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102 ("Parts" Section)
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were
purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used
in any manner. If a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled
by LEGO, its component parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
-----
If the parts have been used for anything other than "handled only for sorting",
they no longer meet the definition of "New" and are now "Used".
The ToS has no gray areas. It is black and white, and the site administration
will always adhere to these terms when it comes to disputes.
Getting stacked parts that were ordered "New" is a definite reason to
object to an order.
|
Sadly some sellers do believe there is ambiguity in the terms. I once asked a
seller why they had stacked new 1x2 plates and 1x4 plates. Worse, all on top
of each other, not even staggered to aid removal. They claimed that they were
allowed to do this under the rules as it was part of their sorting and storing
method and it was not building with them.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | TheBrickGuys | | Posted: | Jan 29, 2024 10:44 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| You are talking about not getting upset if you received a couple of pieces here
and there being stacked together in an order but it appears you didnt fully read
the entire post before responding. The original post does not complain about
a couple of pieces being staked, he stated the ALL the pieces were stacked.
There is a BIG difference between a couple of pieces verses all new pieces being
stacked.
Jim.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jan 29, 2024 10:49 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | You are talking about not getting upset if you received a couple of pieces here
and there being stacked together in an order but it appears you didnt fully read
the entire post before responding. The original post does not complain about
a couple of pieces being staked, he stated the ALL the pieces were stacked.
There is a BIG difference between a couple of pieces verses all new pieces being
stacked.
|
How do you know ALL the order wasn't a couple of parts?
But I wouldn't like even only 2 parts assembled (other than by chance).
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ausdarren | | Posted: | Jan 30, 2024 04:11 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Buying, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | You are talking about not getting upset if you received a couple of pieces here
and there being stacked together in an order but it appears you didnt fully read
the entire post before responding. The original post does not complain about
a couple of pieces being staked, he stated the ALL the pieces were stacked.
There is a BIG difference between a couple of pieces verses all new pieces being
stacked.
|
How do you know ALL the order wasn't a couple of parts?
But I wouldn't like even only 2 parts assembled (other than by chance).
|
Hi there it was all
Plates were together, 1x3 and 1x4 were in same pile. but worse were the 1x1 plates
(Round)
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 29, 2024 16:36 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | You are talking about not getting upset if you received a couple of pieces here
and there being stacked together in an order but it appears you didnt fully read
the entire post before responding. The original post does not complain about
a couple of pieces being staked, he stated the ALL the pieces were stacked.
There is a BIG difference between a couple of pieces verses all new pieces being
stacked.
Jim.
|
Thanks for chiming in but you actually didn't read the full context of my
own post either as it was directed towards yorbrick not the OP. I already stated
that I didn't fully approve of stacked bricks and so I don't take issue
with whatever complaints the op has over how they received their parts. It's
more directed at Yorbricks overly pedantic "stacking for 5 seconds" comment
along with his many other past comments where he obsessively appears to enjoy
correcting people and re-iterating the rules back to them regardless of how necessary/minor
the subject matter!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TheBrickGuys | | Posted: | Jan 29, 2024 21:43 | | Subject: | Re: New Parts | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Buying | |
|
| In Buying, infinibrix writes:
| | In Buying, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | You are talking about not getting upset if you received a couple of pieces here
and there being stacked together in an order but it appears you didnt fully read
the entire post before responding. The original post does not complain about
a couple of pieces being staked, he stated the ALL the pieces were stacked.
There is a BIG difference between a couple of pieces verses all new pieces being
stacked.
Jim.
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Thanks for chiming in but you actually didn't read the full context of my
own post either as it was directed towards yorbrick not the OP. I already stated
that I didn't fully approve of stacked bricks and so I don't take issue
with whatever complaints the op has over how they received their parts. It's
more directed at Yorbricks overly pedantic "stacking for 5 seconds" comment
along with his many other past comments where he obsessively appears to enjoy
correcting people and re-iterating the rules back to them regardless of how necessary/minor
the subject matter!
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Ah, I see. Makes more sense.
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Australia, Victoria
United Kingdom, England
USA, Ohio
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
Canada, Ontario
