|
 |
| | | Author: | TimeWarpDrive  | | Posted: | Jan 19, 2024 22:52 | | Subject: | Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 161 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
|
| Why does sw1259 (sw1287, sh739, sh731, etc) have the hair piece instead of the
helmet? The box and instructions show the character with the helmet. I think
more people who prefer to have the helmet over the hair. A good compromise would
be to have an in-set variant that lists this figure with the helmet for people
who want to buy the helmeted figure.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 19, 2024 23:18 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Suggestions, TimeWarpDrive writes:
| | Why does sw1259 (sw1287, sh739, sh731, etc) have the hair piece instead of the
helmet? The box and instructions show the character with the helmet. I think
more people who prefer to have the helmet over the hair. A good compromise would
be to have an in-set variant that lists this figure with the helmet for people
who want to buy the helmeted figure.
|
figures are based on how the figure is first built in the instructions.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2024 07:55 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, TimeWarpDrive writes:
| | Why does sw1259 (sw1287, sh739, sh731, etc) have the hair piece instead of the
helmet? The box and instructions show the character with the helmet. I think
more people who prefer to have the helmet over the hair. A good compromise would
be to have an in-set variant that lists this figure with the helmet for people
who want to buy the helmeted figure.
|
I would consider the long-term effect of BrickLink setting minifig inventories
for how they think 'most people' would want them.
It's not a perfect science and a line was drawn at how the minifig was first
shown to built. After that, it gets murky. As to adding variants... that could
lead to a lot of duplicates. What if the helmet was shown later on in the instructions?
What if it appears in the set somewhere but is never actually used on the minifig?
What if it's just shown somewhere in the marketing materials and has no source
at all? BrickLink specializes in selling individual LEGO parts. If people want
the helmet, they can buy it too.
My two cents,
~Jen
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2024 08:25 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, TimeWarpDrive writes:
| | Why does sw1259 (sw1287, sh739, sh731, etc) have the hair piece instead of the
helmet? The box and instructions show the character with the helmet. I think
more people who prefer to have the helmet over the hair. A good compromise would
be to have an in-set variant that lists this figure with the helmet for people
who want to buy the helmeted figure.
|
I am sympathetic to this, but it would actually be a pretty big headache with
how the catalog works. The simplest thing to do would be to add alternate versions
of minifigs and not attach them to inventories, but I think that might be little
help. Sellers might be totally unaware of an actually orphaned minifig.
Technic and Belville inventories have advanced minifigs in inventories as counterparts.
They are minifigs with parts added, but not parts taken away. I think there
may have been a few Iron Man figures done that way a few years ago too. But
when you take the hair away, it doesn't meet that definition anymore. And
it probably would still be the same problem. When a seller parts out a set,
it doesn't offer them the counterparts, so they still might be unaware that
it exists.
Now and then it STILL takes a judgment call, but the advantage of what has been
the rule is that it is consistent. If you just go by what the instructions first
say, you don't have different submitters and different admins doing different
things. If you put it in the hands of personal judgment, we would have a lot
more threads like this.
An alternate suggestion that I would like BETTER, would be to add advanced minifigs
whenever the instructions show the minifig built both ways with the arrow between
them showing an alternate build. The advanced minifig would have the hair AND
the helmet.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2024 16:48 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| | | An alternate suggestion that I would like BETTER, would be to add advanced minifigs
whenever the instructions show the minifig built both ways with the arrow between
them showing an alternate build. The advanced minifig would have the hair AND
the helmet.
|
While that isn't difficult for new figures, for used figures it might be
a problem. A figure can't wear both hair and helmet so it is easy to get
separated. And as incomplete figures cannot be sold, there could be apparently
complete used figures not allowed to be sold because they are missing alternative
headgear.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2024 19:18 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | | | An alternate suggestion that I would like BETTER, would be to add advanced minifigs
whenever the instructions show the minifig built both ways with the arrow between
them showing an alternate build. The advanced minifig would have the hair AND
the helmet.
|
While that isn't difficult for new figures, for used figures it might be
a problem. A figure can't wear both hair and helmet so it is easy to get
separated. And as incomplete figures cannot be sold, there could be apparently
complete used figures not allowed to be sold because they are missing alternative
headgear.
|
So just use the regular listing.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2024 02:59 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, axaday writes:
| | In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | | | An alternate suggestion that I would like BETTER, would be to add advanced minifigs
whenever the instructions show the minifig built both ways with the arrow between
them showing an alternate build. The advanced minifig would have the hair AND
the helmet.
|
While that isn't difficult for new figures, for used figures it might be
a problem. A figure can't wear both hair and helmet so it is easy to get
separated. And as incomplete figures cannot be sold, there could be apparently
complete used figures not allowed to be sold because they are missing alternative
headgear.
|
So just use the regular listing.
|
So there would be two (or three or more) listings for each figure dependenton
the variable parts?
Figure with helmet, figure with hair, figure with helmet and hair.
I think I prefer the current system to avoid multiple listings for each figure
and buy the helmet (or other alternate part) separately.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2024 11:51 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, TimeWarpDrive writes:
| | Why does sw1259 (sw1287, sh739, sh731, etc) have the hair piece instead of the
helmet? The box and instructions show the character with the helmet. I think
more people who prefer to have the helmet over the hair. A good compromise would
be to have an in-set variant that lists this figure with the helmet for people
who want to buy the helmeted figure.
|
For some minifigs the helmet may be more desirable but in other instances where
a minifig comes with a very generic hat or helmet the actual hair piece may be
more desirable besides which if you listed these guys with helmets instead of
hair they'd end up resembling generic stormtroopers rather than the intended
characters of Han and Luke
But I agree that it would make sense to have an alternative option but to make
the differences more worthwhile/substantial it would be better to have a barebone
option (No backpacks, quivers but otherwise built to instructions) and then a
fully accessorized option with weapons, quivers, backpacks and both alternate
headgears etc...
Therefore the barebone Han remains listed exactly as above with a fully accessorized
option sw0772b also including the gun and helmet
As already mentioned by others, part of the problem is that Bricklink uses the
build instructions as a means of establishing with absolute certainty exactly
how it should be entered into the catalog so that everyone can follow and understand
using those exact same guidelines but at times there still comes a point where
common sense needs to intervene. For instance I see little point including a
quiver with a forestman minifigure if your not going to also include a bow? Therefore
better to do away with things like quivers altogether likewise following the
instruction build is why we have this yoda with a useless backplate??:-
[m-sw0471]
When it should really just be merged with this one:-
[m-sw0707]
Overall I don't think Bricklink likes the idea of having too many minifig
entries but at the same time a lot can be done to clean up the existing entries.
For instance do we really need to have so many different entries for what are
essentially the same minfigure but with different plain coloured Legs, plumes
for example. Differences which could very easily just be mentioned in the notes
instead?
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2024 22:34 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, TimeWarpDrive writes:
| | Why does sw1259 (sw1287, sh739, sh731, etc) have the hair piece instead of the
helmet? The box and instructions show the character with the helmet. I think
more people who prefer to have the helmet over the hair. A good compromise would
be to have an in-set variant that lists this figure with the helmet for people
who want to buy the helmeted figure.
|
There is nothing to stop a seller for including the helmet along with the hair,
in fact, there are many listings that do so.
I think in-set variants or anything that greatly multiplies the number of variants
of minifigures will complicate the catalogue, and not in a good way.
Bricklink is a market place for buying lego parts you need. If you buy a minifigure
with hair, but want the helmet, then you should buy the helmet from a seller.
That way, sellers get more business.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Ziegelmeister | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2024 06:02 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| I just ship with hair and helmet because I'm that kinda guy. It's not
up to me to pigeon hole someone in to using the fig one way or the other so I
give them the option.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | mattthecatt_1 | | Posted: | Jan 22, 2024 17:45 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In response to all the comments in this thread so far, there seems to be more
than one issue going on here. I personally assemble my minifigures in such a
way so as to 'complete the outfit', meaning headgear will be favoured
over hair. I guess I align with the OP in this regard. However, there is plenty
of room for subjectivity.
Let's take an example, loc154 from 70225. There is an accessory clipped to
the back of the figure that is actually a handheld device, yet is catalogued
as part of the figure itself, which I strongly disagree with. Having an accessory
that's intended to be detachable is very different to, say, having permanent
wings attached, per loc096 from the same set.
Then we have Invincible Iron Man, sh368, exclusive to set 76077. In no way should
the 3062b round bricks attached to the figure be compulsory to have on it. You're
telling me that nobody would want to buy if they weren't there, and that
they will affect the selling value in any significant way? Yet, nobody can list
the figure without them. Contrast that with ow008 from set 75975. It has to be
sold with regular black legs attached. Plenty of buyers might prefer it to come
with its ghost legs, part 19859pb08, which would otherwise be more difficult
to obtain.
In none of these situations are the minifigures incomplete. Rather, they just
might not be configured the same way as they are in the catalogue while still
being legitimate builds. For this reason alone, there could be a time where I
go to sell something requiring me to go back through my other parts to see whether
I retained the additional parts that had come with it. This would prove to be
epecially problematic with rarer elements.
Really, what percentage of minifigures come with alternate headgear and accessories?
I don't have the numbers, and while it may not be uncommon, it does seem
to be more the exception than the rule. I don't think it would be too much
of an ask for the catalogue to get rid of some big headaches for sellers by accounting
for valid variants of the figures that have them. It's evident that there
are already those who would be willing contributors to this.
So, what do you all think? Handheld weapons or no handheld weapons with gs014?
Just have a look at the listings...
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 22, 2024 18:19 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| | | Then we have Invincible Iron Man, sh368, exclusive to set 76077. In no way should
the 3062b round bricks attached to the figure be compulsory to have on it. You're
telling me that nobody would want to buy if they weren't there, and that
they will affect the selling value in any significant way?
|
Nobody is saying that. The catalogue is recording how the minifigure came in
sets, combined with the procedure of how minifigures are catalogued here. It
would not be a good idea to have rules about whether something is becessary based
on value, as value fluctuates.
| | Yet, nobody can list the figure without them.
|
You can if you list it as a custom item.
| | So, what do you all think? Handheld weapons or no handheld weapons with gs014?
Just have a look at the listings...
|
Given the name, h is based on a mantis so I have always assumed they are part
of his arms, not handheld weapons that he can put down and pick up.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | mattthecatt_1 | | Posted: | Jan 22, 2024 19:14 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Then we have Invincible Iron Man, sh368, exclusive to set 76077. In no way should
the 3062b round bricks attached to the figure be compulsory to have on it. You're
telling me that nobody would want to buy if they weren't there, and that
they will affect the selling value in any significant way?
|
Nobody is saying that. The catalogue is recording how the minifigure came in
sets, combined with the procedure of how minifigures are catalogued here. It
would not be a good idea to have rules about whether something is becessary based
on value, as value fluctuates.
|
Yeah, I get that. The value was just a supplementary point. I was more concerned
with the fact that sellers are technically prohibited from listing minifigures
that are deemed to be incomplete. However, the definition of complete doesn't
always make sense according to the catalogue entry, which I understand to be
the defining reference.
| |
| | Yet, nobody can list the figure without them.
|
You can if you list it as a custom item.
|
As a buyer, I'm just going to search for the figure I want. I don't think
custom items will show up using standard parameters. It's a clunky approach
when there could be better ways of doing it.
| |
| | So, what do you all think? Handheld weapons or no handheld weapons with gs014?
Just have a look at the listings...
|
Given the name, h is based on a mantis so I have always assumed they are part
of his arms, not handheld weapons that he can put down and pick up.
|
Indeed, this is the very subjectivity I was getting at. I take a minimalist approach
to minifigure assembly, which usually means they get the body wear, but nothing
goes in the hands. Things like that start to extend beyond what constitutes the
core components. Admittedly, gs014 may not have been the best example to cite,
but I would happily own it with just a head, torso, and legs, considering it
complete in that state. I chose to highlight the listings for it because of the
differing seller notes I saw there.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 22, 2024 22:37 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, mattthecatt_1 writes:
| | In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Then we have Invincible Iron Man, sh368, exclusive to set 76077. In no way should
the 3062b round bricks attached to the figure be compulsory to have on it. You're
telling me that nobody would want to buy if they weren't there, and that
they will affect the selling value in any significant way?
|
Nobody is saying that. The catalogue is recording how the minifigure came in
sets, combined with the procedure of how minifigures are catalogued here. It
would not be a good idea to have rules about whether something is becessary based
on value, as value fluctuates.
|
Yeah, I get that. The value was just a supplementary point. I was more concerned
with the fact that sellers are technically prohibited from listing minifigures
that are deemed to be incomplete. However, the definition of complete doesn't
always make sense according to the catalogue entry, which I understand to be
the defining reference.
| |
| | Yet, nobody can list the figure without them.
|
You can if you list it as a custom item.
|
As a buyer, I'm just going to search for the figure I want. I don't think
custom items will show up using standard parameters. It's a clunky approach
when there could be better ways of doing it.
| |
| | So, what do you all think? Handheld weapons or no handheld weapons with gs014?
Just have a look at the listings...
|
Given the name, h is based on a mantis so I have always assumed they are part
of his arms, not handheld weapons that he can put down and pick up.
|
Indeed, this is the very subjectivity I was getting at. I take a minimalist approach
to minifigure assembly, which usually means they get the body wear, but nothing
goes in the hands. Things like that start to extend beyond what constitutes the
core components. Admittedly, gs014 may not have been the best example to cite,
but I would happily own it with just a head, torso, and legs, considering it
complete in that state. I chose to highlight the listings for it because of the
differing seller notes I saw there.
|
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1449118
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mattthecatt_1 | | Posted: | Jan 22, 2024 23:08 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
|
Nice. This is synchronicity at work. I hadn't seen this post.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 23, 2024 07:28 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, mattthecatt_1 writes:
| | In response to all the comments in this thread so far, there seems to be more
than one issue going on here. I personally assemble my minifigures in such a
way so as to 'complete the outfit', meaning headgear will be favoured
over hair. I guess I align with the OP in this regard. However, there is plenty
of room for subjectivity.
Let's take an example, loc154 from 70225. There is an accessory clipped to
the back of the figure that is actually a handheld device, yet is catalogued
as part of the figure itself, which I strongly disagree with. Having an accessory
that's intended to be detachable is very different to, say, having permanent
wings attached, per loc096 from the same set.
Then we have Invincible Iron Man, sh368, exclusive to set 76077. In no way should
the 3062b round bricks attached to the figure be compulsory to have on it. You're
telling me that nobody would want to buy if they weren't there, and that
they will affect the selling value in any significant way? Yet, nobody can list
the figure without them. Contrast that with ow008 from set 75975. It has to be
sold with regular black legs attached. Plenty of buyers might prefer it to come
with its ghost legs, part 19859pb08, which would otherwise be more difficult
to obtain.
In none of these situations are the minifigures incomplete. Rather, they just
might not be configured the same way as they are in the catalogue while still
being legitimate builds. For this reason alone, there could be a time where I
go to sell something requiring me to go back through my other parts to see whether
I retained the additional parts that had come with it. This would prove to be
epecially problematic with rarer elements.
Really, what percentage of minifigures come with alternate headgear and accessories?
I don't have the numbers, and while it may not be uncommon, it does seem
to be more the exception than the rule. I don't think it would be too much
of an ask for the catalogue to get rid of some big headaches for sellers by accounting
for valid variants of the figures that have them. It's evident that there
are already those who would be willing contributors to this.
So, what do you all think? Handheld weapons or no handheld weapons with gs014?
Just have a look at the listings...
|
Here's another prime example of catalog inconsistencies where the handheld
item gets special treatment with the allowance of two entries here:-
But not for other fist welding minfigures such as below where it only appears
without fists:-
On the same token this one you can only buy with the fists:-
Making special exceptions is one thing but it should at least be consistent among
those minifigs wielding the exact same part with either two entries for each
or just one or the other!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | mattthecatt_1 | | Posted: | Jan 23, 2024 11:58 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| | | Here's another prime example of catalog inconsistencies where the handheld
item gets special treatment with the allowance of two entries here:-
But not for other fist welding minfigures such as below where it only appears
without fists:-
On the same token this one you can only buy with the fists:-
Making special exceptions is one thing but it should at least be consistent among
those minifigs wielding the exact same part with either two entries for each
or just one or the other!
|
Yes, these really reinforce the point. It looks like the existing ability to
list alternates for an item within a set inventory is a suitable solution. From
here, it would just be a case of getting the basic and fuller build versions
of any given figure approved for the catalogue. If that's really too much
to ask, then just go with the stripped-down configuration and let sellers note
any additional parts they will include. Many are doing this already anyway.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jan 23, 2024 14:54 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, infinibrix writes:
The one with fists got added 6 years later and recently. I feel like I ought
to know the story on that, but I don't.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 23, 2024 20:06 | | Subject: | Re: Helmeted figures should be helmeted | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, axaday writes:
| | In Catalog, infinibrix writes:
The one with fists got added 6 years later and recently. I feel like I ought
to know the story on that, but I don't.
|
Let's just say that it was not a unanimous decision.
|
|
|
|
|
USA, Pennsylvania
Canada, Ontario
United Kingdom, England
