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| | | Author: | MEAD_Bricks  | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 11:14 | | Subject: | Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 106 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| Hi again
Without official news from the side of Bricklink (Again), I was wondering if
it's
not simpler to create a tool for Canadian seller to create "region on shipping
methods regarding the province of the Buyer.
By example: A seller from Quebec (Like me) will only need to create 4 shipping
methods.
- 5% GST for AB/BC/MB/NT/NU/SK/YK.
- 13% HST Ontario
- 14.98% GST+QST Quebec
- 15% HST for NB/NL/NS/PEI
But the catch is that the buyer only see the shipping methods corresponding to
his residence Province. Like that a buyer from Quebec will only see the Quebec
shipping method, an Ontarian will only see the Ontario one, etc.
Personally, I think it shouldn't be too difficult to "filter" the
buyers with their province. When they create their account, they choose their
Province in the address. The province is already stock in the database for each
account.
On the buyer side, he could assign the shipping method a new kind of region selection
in the section Destination & Base rate. If you find something much simpler to
allow the Seller to filter by province, let's go !
On the picture, an example of what it could look like
For now, I have 4 shipping methods instant checkout like in my example, but it
is the buyer who needs to choose the right one and many, ... many times they
simply
choose the default one who was the one with the cheaper charges. In that case
it is the 5% taxes who covered only the GST.
By hoping, something will happen in the near future.
Best regards
MEAD BRICKS
P.S. English is not my first language
P.S.2 Edit from my previous post, try again to get an official response, since
today only in a lapse of 2min two buyers choose the wrong shipping method. Remembering
that I have post a message two months earlier :p
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| | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 12:17 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| +1 with this sellers in Canada (large ones specifically who need to collect sales
tax) would be able to offer instant checkout within Canada now that many items
have dimensions in the catalogue which would (probably) lead to an increase in
sales which would help bricklink and help sellers
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| | | | | Author: | pashah | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 12:33 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| It would need to be an option that only users (buyers and sellers) located in
Canada can access - non-Canadian merchants do not need to collect sales tax unless
they have operations in Canada (so customs collects applicable sales tax). Otherwise,
we may end up in a situation in which, for no reason, a non-Canadian store ships
to Manitoba but does not ship to Newfoundland.
Provincial-level taxes (PST/QST) complicate sales tax collection in Canada as
there are more than three tax rate regimes (GST @5%; HST @13%; HST @15%) but
seven rate regimes (the three mentioned + provincial sales taxes in Quebec, BC,
Manitoba, and Saskatchewan). It is actually more complicated than that as some
provincial sales taxes have different regimes for in-province and out-of-province
merchants. If BrickLink takes the path of dividing Canadian members by province/territory,
it will have to consider whether it will allow individual merchants to enable/disable
sales to specific provinces/territories and there can be some legal issues here.
In the interim, Canadian sellers would benefit from a "Tax ID" line on
the invoice (in the same way that EU-based sellers have a "VAT ID" line
on the invoice). VAT IDs are public record and all Canadian sellers charging
GST/HST are legally required to share their GST/HST number on invoices but not
all do so.
In Taxes, MEAD_Bricks writes:
| | Hi again
Without official news from the side of Bricklink (Again), I was wondering if
it's
not simpler to create a tool for Canadian seller to create "region on shipping
methods regarding the province of the Buyer.
By example: A seller from Quebec (Like me) will only need to create 4 shipping
methods.
- 5% GST for AB/BC/MB/NT/NU/SK/YK.
- 13% HST Ontario
- 14.98% GST+QST Quebec
- 15% HST for NB/NL/NS/PEI
But the catch is that the buyer only see the shipping methods corresponding to
his residence Province. Like that a buyer from Quebec will only see the Quebec
shipping method, an Ontarian will only see the Ontario one, etc.
Personally, I think it shouldn't be too difficult to "filter" the
buyers with their province. When they create their account, they choose their
Province in the address. The province is already stock in the database for each
account.
On the buyer side, he could assign the shipping method a new kind of region selection
in the section Destination & Base rate. If you find something much simpler to
allow the Seller to filter by province, let's go !
On the picture, an example of what it could look like
For now, I have 4 shipping methods instant checkout like in my example, but it
is the buyer who needs to choose the right one and many, ... many times they
simply
choose the default one who was the one with the cheaper charges. In that case
it is the 5% taxes who covered only the GST.
By hoping, something will happen in the near future.
Best regards
MEAD BRICKS
P.S. English is not my first language
P.S.2 Edit from my previous post, try again to get an official response, since
today only in a lapse of 2min two buyers choose the wrong shipping method. Remembering
that I have post a message two months earlier :p
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 12:47 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, pashah writes:
| | […]
Provincial-level taxes (PST/QST) complicate sales tax collection in Canada as
there are more than three tax rate regimes (GST @5%; HST @13%; HST @15%) but
seven rate regimes (the three mentioned + provincial sales taxes in Quebec, BC,
Manitoba, and Saskatchewan). It is actually more complicated than that as some
provincial sales taxes have different regimes for in-province and out-of-province
merchants. […]
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USA is more complicated but (mostly) works, because BL is obligated to collect
sales taxes there.
If BL had to collect taxes in Canada, it would work well for Canada too.
The problem is that BL is not big enough in Canada or that the Canadian law isn’t
considering BL as a marketplace or big enough.
IOW, it’s your fault Canadians! You aren’t buying enough / you are not making
the correct laws! 
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 12:59 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | If BL had to collect taxes in Canada, it would work well for Canada too.
The problem is that BL is not big enough in Canada or that the Canadian law isn’t
considering BL as a marketplace or big enough.
IOW, it’s your fault Canadians! You aren’t buying enough / you are not making
the correct laws!
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Not the size or value because it's $30K revenue (including shipping) in 4
quarters which many individual sellers already qualify for. All other marketplace
platforms that I'm part of qualify for the CRA definition of a marketplace,
but BL's tax team mentioned they do not qualify for it for some reason. I
suspect it's why we won't see Canada participate in the MOC Pop-up store
in the short term as I suspect that would challenge their current definition
that keeps them excluded.
On the flip side, I suspect they're delaying participation because they still
are working on marketplace tax and are buying time - that's the optimistic
view anyways 😊
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 13:59 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | […]
Not the size or value because it's $30K revenue (including shipping) in 4
quarters which many individual sellers already qualify for.
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$30k is the threshold for each individual/business. What is the threshold for
the marketplace to be considered a marketplace by the CRA? That’s that one I
was talking about.
Even if BL makes more than $30k in Canada in fees. That (possibly) just means
BL has to pay Canadian taxes on those fees. That doesn’t make BL a marketplace-for-the-CRA.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leopard37 | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 15:11 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | […]
Not the size or value because it's $30K revenue (including shipping) in 4
quarters which many individual sellers already qualify for.
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$30k is the threshold for each individual/business. What is the threshold for
the marketplace to be considered a marketplace by the CRA? That’s that one I
was talking about.
Even if BL makes more than $30k in Canada in fees. That (possibly) just means
BL has to pay Canadian taxes on those fees. That doesn’t make BL a marketplace-for-the-CRA.
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According to certain provinces any sales within their province at all. BL has
been out of compliance for a long time yet no action on their part.
Tyson.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 16:51 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | […]
Not the size or value because it's $30K revenue (including shipping) in 4
quarters which many individual sellers already qualify for.
|
$30k is the threshold for each individual/business. What is the threshold for
the marketplace to be considered a marketplace by the CRA? That’s that one I
was talking about.
Even if BL makes more than $30k in Canada in fees. That (possibly) just means
BL has to pay Canadian taxes on those fees. That doesn’t make BL a marketplace-for-the-CRA.
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It's still $30K for them as a platform. The fees part they already collect
taxes. I believe that BL is saying they do not qualify for the definition of
a "distribution platform operator". They never explained why they said
they don't believe they qualify, but I'd love to understand how/why.
Especially when looking up the CRA definition of distribution platform operator
that states "is involved, directly or through arrangements with third
parties, in collecting, receiving or charging the consideration for the supply
and transmitting all or part of the consideration to the supplier" --
which to me sounds like the API integrations that they do with PayPal and Stripe.
And even services like the Easy Buy features etc are more than just advertising
product on the platform. They also have certain TOS to facilitate the site and
also certain requirements for buyers and sellers as part of the requirements
of the sale. For example, the NPB or NSS processes. They supersede any terms
that a seller has, which immediately disqualifies them for the Excluded Operator
definition. Attached a screenshot for more info and link below.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/gst-hst-businesses/digital-economy-gsthst/charge-collect/sales-good.html
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 17:56 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | […]
It's still $30K for them as a platform. The fees part they already collect
taxes. I believe that BL is saying they do not qualify for the definition of
a "distribution platform operator". They never explained why they said
they don't believe they qualify, but I'd love to understand how/why.
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Thanks for the link. The definitions seems rather large: “directly or indirectly,”
everything can fall under indirectly 🙄
| | Especially when looking up the CRA definition of distribution platform operator
that states "is involved, directly or through arrangements with third
parties, in collecting, receiving or charging the consideration for the supply
and transmitting all or part of the consideration to the supplier" --
which to me sounds like the API integrations that they do with PayPal and Stripe.
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I would disagree.
Direct: BL doesn’t collect, receive, or charge the buyer for the goods and BL
doesn’t transmit the payment to the seller.
It all goes through the payment processors. The API are just links to payment
processors.
Indirect/Arrangement: If BL used all the features of PayPal for Marketplaces
(the ones that had a few knickers in a twist when it was implemented), where
BL could block payments and initiate refunds (bypassing the seller), then that
could apply.
But BL doesn’t do that.
| | And even services like the Easy Buy features etc are more than just advertising
product on the platform. They also have certain TOS to facilitate the site and
also certain requirements for buyers and sellers as part of the requirements
of the sale. For example, the NPB or NSS processes. They supersede any terms
that a seller has, which immediately disqualifies them for the Excluded Operator
definition.
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“— the person does not set, directly or indirectly, any of the terms and conditions
under which the supply is made,”
I read that as: BL doesn’t say how the orders are delivered. Which is true.
NSS is for when there’s no delivery or when there’s a non-conforming delivery.
BL doesn’t say if the goods should be sent by postal services, in letters, in
bags….
“— the person is not involved, directly or indirectly, in authorizing the charge
to the recipient of the supply in respect of the payment of the consideration
for the supply, and“
That’s the point above, about the API.
“— the person is not involved, directly or indirectly, in the ordering or delivery
of the property or in the ordering or rendering of the service;”
That’d would be the more problematic point:
Delivering: BL clearly doesn’t deliver (as Amazon does for goods that’s not Amazon’s
but are in Amazon’s warehouses).
Ordering: The way you’re reading it, BL is somewhat indirectly involved in the
ordering with EasyBuy and Co….
But those can also simply be considered as advanced search tools.
Actually, I’m not sure what constitutes “being involved in the ordering,” what
could be an example of that? BL isn’t ordering for me, it just helps me find
the goods & sellers, and then I decide 🤔
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | |
Ordering: The way you’re reading it, BL is somewhat indirectly involved in the
ordering with EasyBuy and Co….
But those can also simply be considered as advanced search tools.
Actually, I’m not sure what constitutes “being involved in the ordering,” what
could be an example of that? BL isn’t ordering for me, it just helps me find
the goods & sellers, and then I decide 🤔
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Like you touched on for a lot of the points (and even the fact that we see some
of the definitions differently), it definitely seems too vague for how they defined
things, which is why I'm really curious how BL arrived to their conclusion
with the CRA. I believe the new legislation coming in for Jan 2024 solidifies
the definition though. I'm just unsure if that definition is purely for the
additions to the Income Tax Act, or also change the definitions for the purpose
of tax collection. I guess we'll know if we hear of any new requirements
coming in for Canadians for Jan 1st 😊
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 19:40 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | […]
Like you touched on for a lot of the points (and even the fact that we see some
of the definitions differently), it definitely seems too vague for how they defined
things, which is why I'm really curious how BL arrived to their conclusion
with the CRA.
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Well, I guess if the CRA could find a way to collect more money through BL, it
wouldn’t have agreed 😁
| | I believe the new legislation coming in for Jan 2024 solidifies
the definition though. I'm just unsure if that definition is purely for the
additions to the Income Tax Act, or also change the definitions for the purpose
of tax collection. I guess we'll know if we hear of any new requirements
coming in for Canadians for Jan 1st 😊
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2025? It’s BrickLink after all 😁
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 19:40 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | | |
Ordering: The way you’re reading it, BL is somewhat indirectly involved in the
ordering with EasyBuy and Co….
But those can also simply be considered as advanced search tools.
Actually, I’m not sure what constitutes “being involved in the ordering,” what
could be an example of that? BL isn’t ordering for me, it just helps me find
the goods & sellers, and then I decide 🤔
|
Like you touched on for a lot of the points (and even the fact that we see some
of the definitions differently), it definitely seems too vague for how they defined
things, which is why I'm really curious how BL arrived to their conclusion
with the CRA. I believe the new legislation coming in for Jan 2024 solidifies
the definition though. I'm just unsure if that definition is purely for the
additions to the Income Tax Act, or also change the definitions for the purpose
of tax collection. I guess we'll know if we hear of any new requirements
coming in for Canadians for Jan 1st 😊
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so there is hope! 
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 13:00 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | IOW, it’s your fault Canadians! You aren’t buying enough / you are not making
the correct laws!
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Personally, I blame the French. According to Wikipedia:
Specific clauses in the charter [of the Company of New France] included a
requirement to bring 4000 settlers into New France over the next 15 years. The
company largely ignored the settlement requirements of their charter and focused
on the lucrative fur trade, only 300 settlers arriving before 1640.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Quebec
So it's because French people are greedy that they did not bring enough settlers
to New France and now Canadian sellers have to collect their own sales tax.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 13:16 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | Personally, I blame the French. According to Wikipedia:
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| | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 12:50 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| This could be easily achieved if BrickLink allowed sellers to choose U.S. states
and Canadian provinces as destinations in their shipping settings. Then, American
and Canadian sellers could create separate shipping methods for buyers in different
states and provinces.
However, I'm not sure how easy this would be for BrickLink to implement.
They simply may not have the time or developer resources to do this right now.
Or maybe they are already working on it.
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| | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 12:53 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | - 15% HST for NB/NL/NS/PEI
But the catch is that the buyer only see the shipping methods corresponding to
his residence Province. Like that a buyer from Quebec will only see the Quebec
shipping method, an Ontarian will only see the Ontario one, etc.
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Not that I disagree with the idea, especially as I'll touch on another possible
benefit, but if they can do filtering based on provinces (like how we do for
countries), I struggle to understand the difficulty of doing the same with a
tax table.
Before marketplace tax, there already existed a tax field (and the VAT Tax ID
field that was mentioned). What I'm unsure about is if they had a tax table
available for sellers to say "I need to collect X% from State X, Y% from
state Y," etc... I could have sworn they did. But they at least did state
filtering of some kind to support IC I believe.
Other marketplaces give us the option to set the tax rate we need to collect
from each province (especially as the seller's requirements will differ depending
on which specific provinces they're registered to collect from). A QC seller
will need the GST + PST, but myself I only need to set it as 5% GST for QC buyers.
Then at checkout, rather than having to select a specific IC shipping profile
that matches their province, the buyer will get the same shipping option provided
but with the appropriate tax.
The other benefit is at checkout, just like other countries that have tax enabled,
there will be a separate line that shows it's for tax. It's awful that
it's bundled with the handling/shipping fees.
Back to your original idea though, the benefit I can see for adding the province
filtering but still using shipping profiles to put in the taxes rather than tax
tables is that it can allow us to do psuedo-shipping zones (it'll be on par
with BrickOwl anyways, but still not as great as their tax tables). It'll
be based on province, but at least it's a bit better for offering shipping
via instant checkout. Of course, it doesn't solve the remote postal codes,
but for many stores, this is still infinitely better.
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| | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 13:22 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | Before marketplace tax, there already existed a tax field (and the VAT Tax ID
field that was mentioned). What I'm unsure about is if they had a tax table
available for sellers to say "I need to collect X% from State X, Y% from
state Y," etc... I could have sworn they did. But they at least did state
filtering of some kind to support IC I believe.
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They did - in fact they still do:
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 14:42 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, peregrinator writes:
| | In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | Before marketplace tax, there already existed a tax field (and the VAT Tax ID
field that was mentioned). What I'm unsure about is if they had a tax table
available for sellers to say "I need to collect X% from State X, Y% from
state Y," etc... I could have sworn they did. But they at least did state
filtering of some kind to support IC I believe.
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They did - in fact they still do:
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Thanks; that definitely confirms it! That's why I find it so bizarre that
they didn't just customize a version for Canada based on this exact same
framework that's already coded (should have been done years ago when IC was
launched - taxes aren't a new thing for sellers).
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | MEAD_Bricks | | Posted: | Nov 1, 2023 10:05 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, peregrinator writes:
| | In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | Before marketplace tax, there already existed a tax field (and the VAT Tax ID
field that was mentioned). What I'm unsure about is if they had a tax table
available for sellers to say "I need to collect X% from State X, Y% from
state Y," etc... I could have sworn they did. But they at least did state
filtering of some kind to support IC I believe.
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They did - in fact they still do:
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I like that!!!!
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 31, 2023 14:22 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Emporiosa writes:
| | […]
Before marketplace tax, there already existed a tax field (and the VAT Tax ID
field that was mentioned). What I'm unsure about is if they had a tax table
available for sellers to say "I need to collect X% from State X, Y% from
state Y," etc... I could have sworn they did. But they at least did state
filtering of some kind to support IC I believe.
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Peregrinator answered for the US  but I’m not sure there was something similar
for VAT because, before OSS in EU, you could only collect your country’s VAT
(= you’re registered in country X, your VAT ID is for country X, therefore you
collect only for country X).
If you were selling EU but non-domestic and got above one country’s VAT threshold,
you had to register in that country _too_ and you had to change your rate for
that country only.
IOW, contrarily to Sales Tax, VAT is seller’s country only. One way to look
at it is that sales tax is a tax on buying/buyers while VAT is a tax on selling
(but which is reported on the buyers only in the end).
I’m not sure it was feasible on BL, besides editing the invoice (remove your
country’s VAT and add the buyer’s country’s VAT instead).
But then, the thresholds were pretty high (or at least somewhat proportional
to the size of the countries).
Now, with OSS, the threshold is only €10k for all non-domestic EU (instead of
€100k for one country, €20k for another…), and sellers can comply more easily
(One Shop Stop = one registration only, not one in each country where you’re
above the threshold).
And now BL automatically changes the VAT rate to the buyer’s rate when the store
activates the “EU Distance Selling” option.
So now, when I go to a small Italian store that is not OSS-registered, I see
and pay the Italian VAT rate, and when I go to a big German store that is OSS-registered,
I see and pay the French VAT rate (and not the German one).
Well, all that to say: yes BL was and is capable of doing complicated things.
“Quand on veut, on peut.” (When you want, you can.)
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| | | | | Author: | MEAD_Bricks | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2023 16:19 | | Subject: | Re: Canadian Province filter plz :) | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| Hoping the single developer working on the Province filter is still on this task
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Canada, Quebec
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
USA, Illinois
