|  | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select  | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 16:41 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
Glad to hear! thankyou very much!!!
|
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 16:44 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
That is good to know.
|
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| | | | | Author: | Stuart9 | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 16:45 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| Thank you, I never had any doubt that they were genuine.
In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | Author: | The_Boyz_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 16:45 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
Thanks!
|
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|
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| | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 16:47 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
Elementary my dear Watson!
Youtubers gonna drama
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| | | | | Author: | CLBoyce | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 16:52 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| Does this mean that the catalogue team has to go in and note all of these variations
and how has no one come across these in the past? Either way, great job getting
to the bottom of it.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | runner.caller | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 17:28 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, CLBoyce writes:
| | Does this mean that the catalogue team has to go in and note all of these variations
and how has no one come across these in the past? Either way, great job getting
to the bottom of it.
|
It probably wasn't ever a priority considering Watto's modified head
has never been split into two listings.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1216819
I wouldn't mind if the differences are noted, but I personally don't
really want to see minor internal mold variations become different part numbers.
Like thick ribs and thin ribs etc.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 17:35 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, runner.caller writes:
| | In Catalog Identification, CLBoyce writes:
| | Does this mean that the catalogue team has to go in and note all of these variations
and how has no one come across these in the past? Either way, great job getting
to the bottom of it.
|
It probably wasn't ever a priority considering Watto's modified head
has never been split into two listings.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1216819
I wouldn't mind if the differences are noted, but I personally don't
really want to see minor internal mold variations become different part numbers.
Like thick ribs and thin ribs etc.
|
i think they might be waiting for someone to submit photos of both parts  but
like you i don't have them either so i cant help unfortunately 
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | CLBoyce | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 17:58 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| Yeah, I was mainly talking about noting the different font as that can apparently
cause concern.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Aug 31, 2023 20:20 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, CLBoyce writes:
| | Yeah, I was mainly talking about noting the different font as that can apparently
cause concern.
|
If there were a different font on top of the neck that would weird me
out (to say the least) but I have never once looked inside a torso to
determine the markings.
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| | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 17:10 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
This is great news Russell. Hopefully those YouTubers aren't silly enough
to argue with the results of testing from an internal LEGO department (who would
know more about the subject than anyone.) Aw, who am I kidding? They're
going to refute the evidence no matter what. It's their drama-loving nature.
David
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| | | | | | | Author: | tEoS | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 17:55 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| I don't think this is good news at all. This means that Lego willingly produced
very shoddy minifigs that by all measures seem fake. Cheap translucent plastic,
loose joints (arms and hips/legs).
| | This is great news Russell. Hopefully those YouTubers aren't silly enough
to argue with the results of testing from an internal LEGO department (who would
know more about the subject than anyone.) Aw, who am I kidding? They're
going to refute the evidence no matter what. It's their drama-loving nature.
David
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | CLBoyce | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 18:20 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| | Well, that answers my previous questions, thank you |
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tEoS | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 18:59 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| That's better news!
| | Just a point of clarification - even though we have confirmation that these are
genuine elements from a real LEGO mold does not mean these elements ever officially
made it into production. From our community members' analysis on the external
side, they never found one example among hundreds of minifigures tested that
had come from official sets.
So as far as we know, these were never officially released, at least in the traditional
sense of the word.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 19:01 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Just a point of clarification - even though we have confirmation that these are
genuine elements from a real LEGO mold does not mean these elements ever officially
made it into production. From our community members' analysis on the external
side, they never found one example among hundreds of minifigures tested that
had come from official sets.
So as far as we know, these were never officially released, at least in the traditional
sense of the word.
|
Sorry, that's confusing to me. So someone dug up an unused lego mold (watched
doc where it mentioned LEGO buries them so they are never used again - memory
could be wildly wrong) and then made their own parts with an official mold. That
sounds bad. Did I interpret that wrong?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 22:59 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 102 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
|
Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
 |
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| In Catalog Identification, brickerking writes:
| | In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Just a point of clarification - even though we have confirmation that these are
genuine elements from a real LEGO mold does not mean these elements ever officially
made it into production. From our community members' analysis on the external
side, they never found one example among hundreds of minifigures tested that
had come from official sets.
So as far as we know, these were never officially released, at least in the traditional
sense of the word.
|
Sorry, that's confusing to me. So someone dug up an unused lego mold (watched
doc where it mentioned LEGO buries them so they are never used again - memory
could be wildly wrong) and then made their own parts with an official mold. That
sounds bad. Did I interpret that wrong?
|
Not sure if the engineers still bury worn out molds as in the days of yore, but
if they did, they'd have to tear down a building to get them out.
There is some speculation as to why these parts were produced, but we have seen
no evidence that the molds were used in an unauthorized way.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 23:06 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, brickerking writes:
| | In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Just a point of clarification - even though we have confirmation that these are
genuine elements from a real LEGO mold does not mean these elements ever officially
made it into production. From our community members' analysis on the external
side, they never found one example among hundreds of minifigures tested that
had come from official sets.
So as far as we know, these were never officially released, at least in the traditional
sense of the word.
|
Sorry, that's confusing to me. So someone dug up an unused lego mold (watched
doc where it mentioned LEGO buries them so they are never used again - memory
could be wildly wrong) and then made their own parts with an official mold. That
sounds bad. Did I interpret that wrong?
|
The following are unknown:
1. Whether it was used before being buried, and the parts were released at a
later date by whoever caused them to be molded.
2. Whether they made the parts themselves or simply took samples that were meant
to be ground down and destroyed.
As for the burial of the molds, I reckon that burial is not sufficient.
If TLG really want to prevent a mold from ever being used again, they either
need to grind the old mold pattern off or melt down the mold. Either would be
sufficient to ensure that no mold would ever be reused again if that is their
intention.
I personally know of no other way to ensure that a mold for a plastic toy would
never be reused again. This of course assumes that the master for the part is
also destroyed, deleted in the case of electronic media containing CNC milling
data or similar, or cannot be easily recreated by any other means.
Just my opinion on what TLG should do with molds that they don't intend to
reuse.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Fr0stByt3 | | Posted: | Aug 30, 2023 00:11 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, ghyde writes:
| | As for the burial of the molds, I reckon that burial is not sufficient.
If TLG really want to prevent a mold from ever being used again, they either
need to grind the old mold pattern off or melt down the mold. Either would be
sufficient to ensure that no mold would ever be reused again if that is their
intention.
I personally know of no other way to ensure that a mold for a plastic toy would
never be reused again. This of course assumes that the master for the part is
also destroyed, deleted in the case of electronic media containing CNC milling
data or similar, or cannot be easily recreated by any other means.
Just my opinion on what TLG should do with molds that they don't intend to
reuse.
|
Are there images of how large the burial grounds are in area? Do we know how
deep they go?
Burial seems almost symbolic but that's just my odd perspective.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Aug 30, 2023 00:41 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Fr0stByt3 writes:
| | Are there images of how large the burial grounds are in area? Do we know how
deep they go?
Burial seems almost symbolic but that's just my odd perspective.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Aug 30, 2023 00:49 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Catalog Identification, Fr0stByt3 writes:
| | Are there images of how large the burial grounds are in area? Do we know how
deep they go?
Burial seems almost symbolic but that's just my odd perspective.
|
|
I've been there.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Aug 30, 2023 01:07 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Catalog Identification, Fr0stByt3 writes:
| | Are there images of how large the burial grounds are in area? Do we know how
deep they go?
Burial seems almost symbolic but that's just my odd perspective.
|
|
RIP Bionicle molds
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Aug 30, 2023 00:43 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, brickerking writes:
| | Sorry, that's confusing to me. So someone dug up an unused lego mold (watched
doc where it mentioned LEGO buries them so they are never used again - memory
could be wildly wrong) and then made their own parts with an official mold. That
sounds bad. Did I interpret that wrong?
|
They dug up the mold, but it had mold in it from being underground, so they had
to clean the mold out of the mold before they could use it again.
|
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| | | | | Author: | Darth_Smithy | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 17:19 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| Great work! Thanks Russell and team!
In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | Author: | Classicsmiley | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 18:14 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
Thank you for the follow-up information!
|
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 18:38 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Hello everyone,
Based on the report of counterfeit minifigure torsos that was discussed recently
here:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1416623
we conducted an investigation into the four BrickLink stores mentioned in the
video. Of these four, three came back to us and said their torsos did not match
the description in the video. The other store never got back to us, so we reached
out to their buyers and asked for samples.
We received parts from several different buyers and sent them to an internal
LEGO department for testing. The test concluded that the torsos in question are
genuine LEGO elements.
Thanks to all the BrickLink users who invested time on this issue and shared
their findings.
|
I am very happy to be proven wrong. Thanks for the information!
|
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| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Aug 29, 2023 18:41 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| | Good work. Thanks |
|
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| | | | | Author: | KyIe | | Posted: | Aug 31, 2023 19:48 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| I have some questions if you don't mind answering them. These same stores
also sold some original 2006-2008 Batman figures using this new torso mold, yet
if you were to go buy all of the original Batman sets sealed and look at the
torso mold, all of them would not have the thick ribbing, they would have the
official torso mold with the thin ribs. So my question is how did they reproduce
the original Batman figures? I noticed in another forum discussion about this,
you said you had tested hundreds of official figures and none of them had the
thick ribbing. So clearly these original figures are printed by somebody unofficially
and being sold as official. If you need proof, check WalWalMagics eBay page.
My next question is how they were produced in the first place. Outside of the
torso have a Lego stamp, are they even officially produced by the Lego group?
If not, they should not be labeled as official, they would be on par with lepin
parts. My next question is why do these "offical" parts have such different
color differences? In the photo I attached, the left torso is an official light
Nougat torso made by the Lego group. The right torso is a torso from Walwalmagic,
who has an bricklink and eBay store. My friend bought a bunch of these light
nougat torsos from their eBay, claiming they were official, yet they have noticeable
color differences, almost looking tan instead of light nougat. Also not to mention,
the mold differences and the plastic finish is quite different then the official
Lego Group torso molds. Mold differences include thicker ribbing, no neck ring,
arm holes being different, and the Lego logo not being italicized. There's
all of these inconsistencies, and I would appreciate a clear answer to my questions.
Sincerely, Kyle.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | brick_fleet | | Posted: | Jan 4, 2024 23:30 | | Subject: | Re: The verdict | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Catalog Identification | |
|
| In Catalog Identification, KyIe writes:
| | I have some questions if you don't mind answering them. These same stores
also sold some original 2006-2008 Batman figures using this new torso mold, yet
if you were to go buy all of the original Batman sets sealed and look at the
torso mold, all of them would not have the thick ribbing, they would have the
official torso mold with the thin ribs. So my question is how did they reproduce
the original Batman figures? I noticed in another forum discussion about this,
you said you had tested hundreds of official figures and none of them had the
thick ribbing. So clearly these original figures are printed by somebody unofficially
and being sold as official. If you need proof, check WalWalMagics eBay page.
My next question is how they were produced in the first place. Outside of the
torso have a Lego stamp, are they even officially produced by the Lego group?
If not, they should not be labeled as official, they would be on par with lepin
parts. My next question is why do these "offical" parts have such different
color differences? In the photo I attached, the left torso is an official light
Nougat torso made by the Lego group. The right torso is a torso from Walwalmagic,
who has an bricklink and eBay store. My friend bought a bunch of these light
nougat torsos from their eBay, claiming they were official, yet they have noticeable
color differences, almost looking tan instead of light nougat. Also not to mention,
the mold differences and the plastic finish is quite different then the official
Lego Group torso molds. Mold differences include thicker ribbing, no neck ring,
arm holes being different, and the Lego logo not being italicized. There's
all of these inconsistencies, and I would appreciate a clear answer to my questions.
Sincerely, Kyle.
|
Great question, any thoughts on this Russel?
|
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Canada, Ontario
United Kingdom, England
Australia, Queensland
)
)
)
