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| | | Author: | Brick_Qc  | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 19:00 | | Subject: | Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 239 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
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| | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 19:02 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| slightly unrelated but I couldn't even get the thing to work. I would scan
it and it would bring me to the app the I click redeem points then it would redirect
me to a website I had to enter my age (and somewhere in the process was a math
problem) and then it would redirect me back to the app and nothing happened
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| | | | | | | Author: | iprice | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 19:06 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, Nubs_Select writes:
| | slightly unrelated but I couldn't even get the thing to work. I would scan
it and it would bring me to the app the I click redeem points then it would redirect
me to a website I had to enter my age (and somewhere in the process was a math
problem) and then it would redirect me back to the app and nothing happened
|
I had the same issues at first - I tried half a dozen times, with the same results
as you. Exit the app and go to the Lego website (on your mobile) and log out.
Retry the app and enter the info and you should be good to go. Worked for me,
anyway.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 19:16 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, iprice writes:
| | In General, Nubs_Select writes:
| | slightly unrelated but I couldn't even get the thing to work. I would scan
it and it would bring me to the app the I click redeem points then it would redirect
me to a website I had to enter my age (and somewhere in the process was a math
problem) and then it would redirect me back to the app and nothing happened
|
I had the same issues at first - I tried half a dozen times, with the same results
as you. Exit the app and go to the Lego website (on your mobile) and log out.
Retry the app and enter the info and you should be good to go. Worked for me,
anyway.
|
thanks for the advice but unfortunately it still doesn't work
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| | | | | Author: | iprice | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 19:07 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
I suppose it will depend on if the instruction manual is "New" or "Used".
If "New", then I expect to be able to scan the code. If "Used",
then I wouldn't.
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| | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 06:25 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, iprice writes:
| | In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
I suppose it will depend on if the instruction manual is "New" or "Used".
If "New", then I expect to be able to scan the code. If "Used",
then I wouldn't.
|
BL rules only account for the physical state/condition of the item being sold.
Unless we have a provision in the rules to address the digital part of the instructions
- buyers should not expect to be able to scan the code.
If such a provision is put in place - then we also need a secondary condition
for instructions stating whether the QR code is Scanned/Not Scanned. Both for
new and for used - because no one is saying that a used set of instructions
can not have an unscanned code.
Caveat - sometimes the codes can be printed with faulty lines, blurry etc. Sometimes
they are unusable, or sometimes QR scanning apps that have a good error-correcting
algorithms can still make them work. But at this point we can not always determine
who's at fault - QR code itself, or the end user might be trying to use a
crappy QR app. Who's to blame - the Seller or the Buyer?
Now we have an option of spending development time to implement such features,
subsequently deal with buyers and sellers getting into quarrels because of QR
codes sometimes not working etc. All for ~0.02 cents worth of money per instruction
manual?
Or we can have a provision in the rules saying that stated condition of instruction
booklets for sale only specifies the physical state/condition of the item. Or
that the QR code should be assumed to be scanned/not working, unless seller specifically
states otherwise in the extended description.
Sellers, if they want, can always use the Description filed to state whether
the QR code has been scanned/not scanned, is blurry, is faulty etc.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 07:18 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, enig writes:
| | In General, iprice writes:
| | In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
I suppose it will depend on if the instruction manual is "New" or "Used".
If "New", then I expect to be able to scan the code. If "Used",
then I wouldn't.
|
BL rules only account for the physical state/condition of the item being sold.
Unless we have a provision in the rules to address the digital part of the instructions
- buyers should not expect to be able to scan the code.
If such a provision is put in place - then we also need a secondary condition
for instructions stating whether the QR code is Scanned/Not Scanned. Both for
new and for used - because no one is saying that a used set of instructions
can not have an unscanned code.
Caveat - sometimes the codes can be printed with faulty lines, blurry etc. Sometimes
they are unusable, or sometimes QR scanning apps that have a good error-correcting
algorithms can still make them work. But at this point we can not always determine
who's at fault - QR code itself, or the end user might be trying to use a
crappy QR app. Who's to blame - the Seller or the Buyer?
Now we have an option of spending development time to implement such features,
subsequently deal with buyers and sellers getting into quarrels because of QR
codes sometimes not working etc. All for ~0.02 cents worth of money per instruction
manual?
Or we can have a provision in the rules saying that stated condition of instruction
booklets for sale only specifies the physical state/condition of the item. Or
that the QR code should be assumed to be scanned/not working, unless seller specifically
states otherwise in the extended description.
Sellers, if they want, can always use the Description filed to state whether
the QR code has been scanned/not scanned, is blurry, is faulty etc.
|
There are no guidelines as to what is meant by new/used for instructions (same
with boxes). But if the parts guidelines carry over ...
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and
have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any
manner.
I would say that scanning a code on a booklet with a LEGO specific scanning app
is using that feature of the instruction booklet.
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 19:51 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
Does each printed instruction have a unique QR code ?
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brick_Qc | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 19:57 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, cosmicray writes:
| | In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
Does each printed instruction have a unique QR code ?
Nita Rae
|
Yes
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 11:58 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | In General, cosmicray writes:
| | In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
Does each printed instruction have a unique QR code ?
Nita Rae
|
Yes
|
Now I'm waiting to see how long it takes for someone to decode the QR image,
decide how they generated them, and then mass-produce not-quite-original codes
for scanning.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 12:58 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, cosmicray writes
| | Now I'm waiting to see how long it takes for someone to decode the QR image,
decide how they generated them, and then mass-produce not-quite-original codes
for scanning.
Nita Rae
|
It is a 17 digit long alpha numeric code, might take a while.
The first part of the code seems to be consistent on a set
HTTPS://LEGO.COM/GO/38/0075316/6382344/{unique_code_here}
This is from set 75316.
Just clicked link in the preview and it worked without the unique code. Interesting.
Also:
| | Conditions for LEGO® product registration:
* You can register for LEGO® Insiders points only once per set.
* 20 points per set regardless of set.
* You need to be an eligible LEGO® Insiders account holder residing in a country where the LEGO Insiders loyalty program is available. Please see our LEGO Insiders Terms & Conditions.
* Eligible LEGO® products are products brought to market from 2018 and onwards containing a unique QR code on the building instructions.
* The following LEGO products are not eligible:City Mission SKUs 60355/54/53
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| | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2023 20:40 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, cosmicray writes:
| | In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
Does each printed instruction have a unique QR code ?
Nita Rae
|
Yes, just tested 2 from set 75316 and they were unique.
But I wonder, are they recording them tied to your VIP number after you scan
them, I would think they would just record the set number. IDK.
I wonder if the market for all those manuals that do not sell will finally blossom?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 03:19 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | |
I wonder if the market for all those manuals that do not sell will finally blossom?
|
It is probably more economical for the seller to scan them for the points and
recycle them. Are the costs for posting bulk booklets worth it for the VIP/Insider
points.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 03:30 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
I wonder if the market for all those manuals that do not sell will finally blossom?
|
It is probably more economical for the seller to scan them for the points and
recycle them. Are the costs for posting bulk booklets worth it for the VIP/Insider
points.
|
IIUC, it’s 20 points per instruction, so €0.02667.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tEoS | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 09:22 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| How did you arrive at that number?
In the USA 650 points = $5
20 pts (bl) $x
------ (eq =) --
650 pts (bl) $5
I got $0.15. Maybe it is too early for me to do math?
(bl) blank
(eq =) equals
--- fraction
In General, SylvainLS writes:
| | In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
I wonder if the market for all those manuals that do not sell will finally blossom?
|
It is probably more economical for the seller to scan them for the points and
recycle them. Are the costs for posting bulk booklets worth it for the VIP/Insider
points.
|
IIUC, it’s 20 points per instruction, so €0.02667.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 09:47 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, tEoS writes:
| | How did you arrive at that number?
In the USA 650 points = $5
20 pts (bl) $x
------ (eq =) --
650 pts (bl) $5
I got $0.15. Maybe it is too early for me to do math?
|
Similar for UK. 800 points is £5, so equivalent to codes from 40 sets and each
is worth 12.5p. If a seller parts out a lot of smaller sets it is not a bad return,
but would be better if scanning was faster. It's not as good as VIP points
on lego orders but presumably the seller bought at a discount if not buying from
lego and still a nice little extra. And of course it is in addition to VIP points
on lego orders.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 10:40 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, tEoS writes:
| | How did you arrive at that number?
|
Well, it was early here and breakfast hadn’t kicked in yet 
I forgot to multiply by €5: it’s 750 points for €5 here, I used 750 instead of
150. *facepalm*
Now I need to rethink my position on scanning my instructions….
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 05:19 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
I wonder if the market for all those manuals that do not sell will finally blossom?
|
It is probably more economical for the seller to scan them for the points and
recycle them. Are the costs for posting bulk booklets worth it for the VIP/Insider
points.
|
The cost of posting is usually paid by the buyer, but sure nobody will be buying
instructions just for the points.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 06:53 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Stellar writes:
| | In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
I wonder if the market for all those manuals that do not sell will finally blossom?
|
It is probably more economical for the seller to scan them for the points and
recycle them. Are the costs for posting bulk booklets worth it for the VIP/Insider
points.
|
The cost of posting is usually paid by the buyer, but sure nobody will be buying
instructions just for the points.
|
That is my point, that people are unlikely to buy instructions due to points
when they cost so much to post. But it might be worthwhile for a parts seller
to chuck them in a box when parting out, then when the pile is big enough, scan
them and recycle.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 12:44 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | In General, Stellar writes:
| | In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
I wonder if the market for all those manuals that do not sell will finally blossom?
|
It is probably more economical for the seller to scan them for the points and
recycle them. Are the costs for posting bulk booklets worth it for the VIP/Insider
points.
|
The cost of posting is usually paid by the buyer, but sure nobody will be buying
instructions just for the points.
|
That is my point, that people are unlikely to buy instructions due to points
when they cost so much to post. But it might be worthwhile for a parts seller
to chuck them in a box when parting out, then when the pile is big enough, scan
them and recycle.
|
I thought I read somewhere that a set could only be scanned once, so if you part
out 10 copies, you may be out of luck.
Also, you could just mail the QR code page out to save on shipping. Or even e-mail
deliver the code, so no shipping required.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 15:24 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | | I thought I read somewhere that a set could only be scanned once, so if you part
out 10 copies, you may be out of luck.
Also, you could just mail the QR code page out to save on shipping. Or even e-mail
deliver the code, so no shipping required.
|
I thought you could scan each code once, not each set. I haven’t downloaded the
app yet, so haven't checked.
The downside of shipping only the codes is when the buyer complains that they
wanted new instructions and that you sent only covers!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 15:56 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | | I thought I read somewhere that a set could only be scanned once, so if you part
out 10 copies, you may be out of luck.
Also, you could just mail the QR code page out to save on shipping. Or even e-mail
deliver the code, so no shipping required.
|
I thought you could scan each code once, not each set. I haven’t downloaded the
app yet, so haven't checked.
The downside of shipping only the codes is when the buyer complains that they
wanted new instructions and that you sent only covers!
|
You do not need the app to redeem points. And the notice I got when I did do
a redemption states:
| | Conditions for LEGO® product registration:
* You can register for LEGO® Insiders points only once per set.
* 20 points per set regardless of set.
* You need to be an eligible LEGO® Insiders account holder residing in a country where the LEGO Insiders loyalty program is available. Please see our LEGO Insiders Terms & Conditions.
* Eligible LEGO® products are products brought to market from 2018 and onwards containing a unique QR code on the building instructions.
* The following LEGO products are not eligible:City Mission SKUs 60355/54/53
|
As for the covers, it would have to be a custom lot so you did not give the wrong
impression. Just a thought.
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| | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 08:57 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
I see your point, but my perspective is the Lego company is rewarding the purchase
of the set, not the instruction booklet. So therefore the original purchaser
of the set has legitimate claim to the vip points.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brick_Qc | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 09:07 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | I see your point, but my perspective is the Lego company is rewarding the purchase
of the set, not the instruction booklet. So therefore the original purchaser
of the set has legitimate claim to the vip points.
|
I understand your point of view but I strongly disagree and I think most buyers
will disagree.
I really like Yorbrick's point of view :
There are no guidelines as to what is meant by new/used for instructions (same
with boxes). But if the parts guidelines carry over ...
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and
have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any
manner.
I would say that scanning a code on a booklet with a LEGO specific scanning app
is using that feature of the instruction booklet.
I think that since BL is own by Lego, they'll have to do policy on this and
the easiest would be to carry on the part's guideline as Yorbrick suggested.
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 09:40 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | I see your point, but my perspective is the Lego company is rewarding the purchase
of the set, not the instruction booklet. So therefore the original purchaser
of the set has legitimate claim to the vip points.
|
I understand your point of view but I strongly disagree and I think most buyers
will disagree.
I really like Yorbrick's point of view :
There are no guidelines as to what is meant by new/used for instructions (same
with boxes). But if the parts guidelines carry over ...
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and
have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any
manner.
I would say that scanning a code on a booklet with a LEGO specific scanning app
is using that feature of the instruction booklet.
I think that since BL is own by Lego, they'll have to do policy on this and
the easiest would be to carry on the part's guideline as Yorbrick suggested.
|
That rule, while working just fine for pieces, is excessive for booklets. After
all, in the first copy of a set we open, we'll flip open the first page or
two to figure out which bags have which minifigs. Are those booklets now considered
used? That's excessive.
By the time we list instruction booklets, the boxes are already thrown away.
Some of the instruction booklets don't have their set number on them, just
the qr code. So I use that with the lego builder app to find which set has it.
All I did was aim a camera at the book, but since I used that feature, that makes
it used? Doesn't make sense.
Think about hobby sellers as well. Maybe someone gets a bunch of new sets from
a friend that have open boxes or something. How is the seller going to know if
the 20 VIP points have been claimed or not?
Also, as tEoS pointed out, 20 VIP points comes to $0.15. A majority of booklets
are worth less than that. So if sellers cannot sell books as new if the points
are spent, all that is going to happen is a ton of used listings with something
along the lines of "book is brand new, but points have already been redeemed".
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 09:58 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| |
Some of the instruction booklets don't have their set number on them, just
the qr code. So I use that with the lego builder app to find which set has it.
All I did was aim a camera at the book, but since I used that feature, that makes
it used? Doesn't make sense.
|
I thought this was one of LEGO's most short-sighted moves recently. How hard
is it to print a 5-digit code on a booklet? ...even on the back page or inside
the front cover if you are so obsessed with aesthetics! Because, long-term and
5 minutes after whatever website and database manages those codes are gone forever,
who would really want to know what instructions went with what set anyway?
And we no longer wonder why BrickLink had a better catalog than LEGO.
UGH.
~Jen
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 11:20 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, jennnifer writes:
| | In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| |
Some of the instruction booklets don't have their set number on them, just
the qr code. So I use that with the lego builder app to find which set has it.
All I did was aim a camera at the book, but since I used that feature, that makes
it used? Doesn't make sense.
|
I thought this was one of LEGO's most short-sighted moves recently. How hard
is it to print a 5-digit code on a booklet? ...even on the back page or inside
the front cover if you are so obsessed with aesthetics! Because, long-term and
5 minutes after whatever website and database manages those codes are gone forever,
who would really want to know what instructions went with what set anyway?
And we no longer wonder why BrickLink had a better catalog than LEGO.
UGH.
~Jen
|
I agree, it's very stupid. I had to download the app for the sole reason
of using it for those nameless books.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 09:47 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | I see your point, but my perspective is the Lego company is rewarding the purchase
of the set, not the instruction booklet. So therefore the original purchaser
of the set has legitimate claim to the vip points.
|
I understand your point of view but I strongly disagree and I think most buyers
will disagree.
I really like Yorbrick's point of view :
There are no guidelines as to what is meant by new/used for instructions (same
with boxes). But if the parts guidelines carry over ...
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and
have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any
manner.
I would say that scanning a code on a booklet with a LEGO specific scanning app
is using that feature of the instruction booklet.
I think that since BL is own by Lego, they'll have to do policy on this and
the easiest would be to carry on the part's guideline as Yorbrick suggested.
|
In that case explain why do we even have the option to list Set Boxes as NEW?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 09:55 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, enig writes:
| | In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | I see your point, but my perspective is the Lego company is rewarding the purchase
of the set, not the instruction booklet. So therefore the original purchaser
of the set has legitimate claim to the vip points.
|
I understand your point of view but I strongly disagree and I think most buyers
will disagree.
I really like Yorbrick's point of view :
There are no guidelines as to what is meant by new/used for instructions (same
with boxes). But if the parts guidelines carry over ...
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and
have been handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any
manner.
I would say that scanning a code on a booklet with a LEGO specific scanning app
is using that feature of the instruction booklet.
I think that since BL is own by Lego, they'll have to do policy on this and
the easiest would be to carry on the part's guideline as Yorbrick suggested.
|
In that case explain why do we even have the option to list Set Boxes as NEW?
|
Presumably it is simpler for BL to allow everything to have one of two conditions,
rather than allowing some items to be new or used and others to be used only.
Plus some blister packs can be opened and resealed. If LEGO sells them filled
and someone opens one and removes parts from it, wouldn't the packaging still
be new? Like disassembling new parts from minifigs assembled by lego.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | MadiganStation | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 18:11 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| There shouldn't be anything changed in terms of listing/selling instructions
because of this new VIP point thing. I just ran a test by scanning 10x of set
76213, and 9 of 10 went through just fine, but 1 would not scan at all. It didn't
come up saying it was already registered, I am assuming it just would not scan
due to the printing of the code. So, are we really wanting to have issues like
this sent to the helpdesk for them to figure out when a buyer doesn't get
their .15 from a code? It will cause way too many problems, and by "way too
many" I mean more than 0... Not worth it.
In General, Brick_Qc writes:
| | I'm not sure this has been officialy addressed.
Lego is now giving VIP points when you scan a newer instructions with a QR code,
it's give 20 points (in Canada).
This could cause problems if a buyer buys a new instructions from a BL seller
and that BL seller has already scanned the QR code while parting.
I think a buyer should expect to be able to scan himself a new instruction he
bought on BL and have the points.
As for used instructions, a buyer should expect it's already scanned.
Your opinion ?
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 20:53 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, MadiganStation writes:
| | There shouldn't be anything changed in terms of listing/selling instructions
because of this new VIP point thing. I just ran a test by scanning 10x of set
76213, and 9 of 10 went through just fine, but 1 would not scan at all.
|
Have you received your points yet?
I scanned mine earlier today and still do not have my points yet. Therefore,
I wonder if they are going to do a batch process of entered codes and do validation
at that time. When a code passes all of their tests, then they will assign points.
| | It didn't come up saying it was already registered, I am assuming it just would not scan
due to the printing of the code. So, are we really wanting to have issues like
this sent to the helpdesk for them to figure out when a buyer doesn't get
their .15 from a code? It will cause way too many problems, and by "way too
many" I mean more than 0... Not worth it.
|
Yeah, TLG has never shot themselves in the foot.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | MadiganStation | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 21:03 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | | Have you received your points yet?
|
Yes, points were in my account immediately after scanning the codes.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | psusaxman2000 | | Posted: | Aug 22, 2023 21:15 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, MadiganStation writes:
| | | | Have you received your points yet?
|
Yes, points were in my account immediately after scanning the codes.
|
Same, I just did a few sets that I had sitting beside me and the point showed
up immediately.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 00:46 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In General, MadiganStation writes:
| | | | Have you received your points yet?
|
Yes, points were in my account immediately after scanning the codes.
|
Same, I just did a few sets that I had sitting beside me and the point showed
up immediately.
|
I guess my theory is wrong then. Thank you both for the input.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | psusaxman2000 | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 10:44 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 18 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Sadler_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 00:14 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| Don't forget to update your terms
But yes new instructions should still have the code avail to the buyer and used
can be used already that's how we see it
And fyi it's not every instructions book but I believe dates back to 2018
Sadler_Bricks
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | psusaxman2000 | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 10:49 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Sadler_Bricks writes:
| | Don't forget to update your terms
But yes new instructions should still have the code avail to the buyer and used
can be used already that's how we see it
And fyi it's not every instructions book but I believe dates back to 2018
Sadler_Bricks
|
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 11:31 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | |
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
You have used it, just not in the traditional sense of opening the pages. But
then, there are no guidelines at all about what makes an instruction book used
or new. So any use of one, even if it is a function used that is not contained
on all booklets, would make it used.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 16:39 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
|
But that isn't the determining factor between new and used. We are allowed
to assemble minifigs and still list them new, to the last of my knowledge (I
haven't done it for years, but did when I first started). We can disassemble
pieces like the hinge plates and levers and still list them as new. Since he
barely even touched the booklet, I would still consider it new.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 17:02 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | In General, yorbrick writes:
[…]
| | Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
|
But that isn't the determining factor between new and used. We are allowed
to assemble minifigs and still list them new, to the last of my knowledge (I
haven't done it for years, but did when I first started). We can disassemble
pieces like the hinge plates and levers and still list them as new. Since he
barely even touched the booklet, I would still consider it new.
|
First, it’s a new thing, it’s not in the rules. We may look at the existing
rules to see if it’s implicitly covered but it may need its own explicit rule.
Then, rules for material objects generally don’t apply to immaterial ones.
Analogy: I’ve a paper voucher for €20 in a store. There’s a unique number on
it. As soon as I got the voucher, I put it under plastic and never touched it
again. It’s New!
… Except I used its unique number on the store’s website.
Is it still New? Is it Used? Would you buy it for €20? €10? €1, last chance!?
No? Why?
Yes, instruction books have another, more important usage than just the QR-code,
but part of it is now the same as the voucher above.
If the code has been used, the book is Used.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 17:18 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, SylvainLS writes:
| | Yes, instruction books have another, more important usage than just the QR-code,
but part of it is now the same as the voucher above.
If the code has been used, the book is Used.
|
I was thinking about this last night. Until there is some clarity on the issue
from BL, I updated my terms with the following:
QR Codes for the Lego insider program: New instructions are never scanned,
used instructions may or may not be scanned.
in the hopes of making things crystal clear for my customers.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 17:49 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, macebobo writes:
| | In General, SylvainLS writes:
| | Yes, instruction books have another, more important usage than just the QR-code,
but part of it is now the same as the voucher above.
If the code has been used, the book is Used.
|
I was thinking about this last night. Until there is some clarity on the issue
from BL, I updated my terms with the following:
QR Codes for the Lego insider program: New instructions are never scanned,
used instructions may or may not be scanned.
in the hopes of making things crystal clear for my customers.
|
It does make it clear.
And it also means you won't need to worry if you have 20 copies of instructions
for a small set for 5c each and a buyer buts them all. Whereas if you had used
all the codes, then you would probably be worrying about negative feedback and
whether the buyer wanted them for the codes or because they wanted 20 copies
of the same instructions.
And it links back to earlier on, in that new instructions with unused codes now
have some intrinsic monetary value. Whether this is at or below the scanned value
depends on if sellers can be bothered to do the work of scanning the codes themselves.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 17:41 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, SylvainLS writes:
| | Analogy: I’ve a paper voucher for €20 in a store. There’s a unique number on
it. As soon as I got the voucher, I put it under plastic and never touched it
again. It’s New!
… Except I used its unique number on the store’s website.
Is it still New? Is it Used? Would you buy it for €20? €10? €1, last chance!?
No? Why?
|
I bought the voucher for €20! I've been used!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 17:50 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, SylvainLS writes:
| | In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | In General, yorbrick writes:
[…]
| | Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
|
But that isn't the determining factor between new and used. We are allowed
to assemble minifigs and still list them new, to the last of my knowledge (I
haven't done it for years, but did when I first started). We can disassemble
pieces like the hinge plates and levers and still list them as new. Since he
barely even touched the booklet, I would still consider it new.
|
First, it’s a new thing, it’s not in the rules. We may look at the existing
rules to see if it’s implicitly covered but it may need its own explicit rule.
Then, rules for material objects generally don’t apply to immaterial ones.
Analogy: I’ve a paper voucher for €20 in a store. There’s a unique number on
it. As soon as I got the voucher, I put it under plastic and never touched it
again. It’s New!
… Except I used its unique number on the store’s website.
Is it still New? Is it Used? Would you buy it for €20? €10? €1, last chance!?
No? Why?
|
I won't say your analogy is without merit, but it is extremely weak. Your
analogy consists of an item with only one purpose, and that purpose being already
used. The purpose of the booklet is not to get 20 VIP points, that a bonus that
lego is giving to the buyer of the set. I bought the set, so shouldn't I
get the vip points? Plus, the QR code can still be used, it's main use until
now was to help find the set in the build app, which is still possible. As I
mentioned in another comment, we have to look at the practical side as well.
Lots of booklets are worth only a few cents, making it the logical choice for
a business to claim the $.15, and sell the booklet as used if that was required.
Do we really want items saturated with "brand-new" used items and will
buyers really care if the 20 VIP is missing from their booklet?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 18:16 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | In General, SylvainLS writes:
| | In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | In General, yorbrick writes:
[…]
| | Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
|
But that isn't the determining factor between new and used. We are allowed
to assemble minifigs and still list them new, to the last of my knowledge (I
haven't done it for years, but did when I first started). We can disassemble
pieces like the hinge plates and levers and still list them as new. Since he
barely even touched the booklet, I would still consider it new.
|
First, it’s a new thing, it’s not in the rules. We may look at the existing
rules to see if it’s implicitly covered but it may need its own explicit rule.
Then, rules for material objects generally don’t apply to immaterial ones.
Analogy: I’ve a paper voucher for €20 in a store. There’s a unique number on
it. As soon as I got the voucher, I put it under plastic and never touched it
again. It’s New!
… Except I used its unique number on the store’s website.
Is it still New? Is it Used? Would you buy it for €20? €10? €1, last chance!?
No? Why?
|
I won't say your analogy is without merit, but it is extremely weak. Your
analogy consists of an item with only one purpose, and that purpose being already
used. The purpose of the booklet is not to get 20 VIP points, that a bonus that
lego is giving to the buyer of the set. I bought the set, so shouldn't I
get the vip points? Plus, the QR code can still be used, it's main use until
now was to help find the set in the build app, which is still possible.
|
The current rule for new parts is "These parts have never been used in any
manner." It is not that they might have been used for a supposedly minor
use but not for their main use. If something has three different uses and it
has been used for one of them, it has been used. Especially if that use is single
use and leaves a record that it has been used that way. If all copies of a set
had the same code on the instructions and was therefore multi-use, I'd agree
using that code has not made a particular copy of the instructions used. But
removing a possible use from an item by using a unique code on it means it is
no longer in an unused state, even if other functionality remains.
| | As I
mentioned in another comment, we have to look at the practical side as well.
Lots of booklets are worth only a few cents, making it the logical choice for
a business to claim the $.15, and sell the booklet as used if that was required.
Do we really want items saturated with "brand-new" used items and will
buyers really care if the 20 VIP is missing from their booklet?
|
Isn't the cash-in value vs what they can be sold for exactly the point? If
a seller can recoup 75% or 90% of the value in money for no work rather than
getting 100% of the money off a full RRP order with no additional scanning work,
then it is probably worth selling unused code instructions so someone else does
the work and gets the benefit. Whatever percentage is settled on is dependent
on how much / little someone values VIP points, much like any other product.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 17:40 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, tons_of_bricks writes:
| | In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
|
But that isn't the determining factor between new and used. We are allowed
to assemble minifigs and still list them new, to the last of my knowledge (I
haven't done it for years, but did when I first started). We can disassemble
pieces like the hinge plates and levers and still list them as new. Since he
barely even touched the booklet, I would still consider it new.
|
So what is the determining factor for new and used instructions? Answer - there
isn't one. There is no definition of new/used for instructions on BL. It
only exists for parts and sets. Instructions are neither.
If something has a single use function, even if it can be used in other ways
(such as building the set), then if that function doesn't work because the
seller used it, I'd say it is used. These QR code instructions have multiple
ways of being used - building the set AND scanning the code. If one of those
has been done, then they have been used in some way, if not in all ways.
BL ought to have a disclaimer to say that any items with single use codes (whether
instructions or printed parts with unique codes), the codes are not guaranteed
to work even for new items (or are guaranteed to work if they go that way) or
an equivalent definition of new/used.
If I bought a part like [P=3069bpb0263] that was new and it was a single use
code (I know in this case they aren't), then I'd say the part had been
used in some way even if it had not been connected to other parts. It has multiple
ways of being used, and it doesn't matter which type of use has been used,
using one of the uses makes it not new.
It is like selling a PC game install discs that come with a single use code.
You could use the code and a different set of install discs to install the game
and say the install discs are still new as they haven't been used. But the
buyer won't be happy if they bought the discs as they wanted the installation
code, and to avoid complaints it would be better to be clear if the single use
code had been used especially if there is no guideline about it.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | CE_Eric | | Posted: | Sep 11, 2023 18:46 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardCE_Eric
|
Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| Jul 19, 2023 |
 |
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| There is a measurable (albeit perhaps miniscule) value to an unscanned QR code
that IMO should be acknowledged with a "New" or "Used" condition.
I know this is going to be a challenge for some sellers, but in good faith and
fairness, I think the definition of "New" instruction condition includes
the QR code is unused for Insider Points.
If an instruction's QR code is "Used" to obtain Insider Points, would
it not follow that it is in a "Used" condition? Coffee cup stains, or
obvious wear on an instruction's pages would also objectively show that it
is Used, even if the QR code is unused, no?
In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
You have used it, just not in the traditional sense of opening the pages. But
then, there are no guidelines at all about what makes an instruction book used
or new. So any use of one, even if it is a function used that is not contained
on all booklets, would make it used.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Sep 11, 2023 20:09 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 87 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, CE_Eric writes:
| | There is a measurable (albeit perhaps miniscule) value to an unscanned QR code
that IMO should be acknowledged with a "New" or "Used" condition.
I know this is going to be a challenge for some sellers, but in good faith and
fairness, I think the definition of "New" instruction condition includes
the QR code is unused for Insider Points.
If an instruction's QR code is "Used" to obtain Insider Points, would
it not follow that it is in a "Used" condition? Coffee cup stains, or
obvious wear on an instruction's pages would also objectively show that it
is Used, even if the QR code is unused, no?
|
I understand both sides of the discussion, but in reality... trying to manage
the points thing will be a nightmare. How does one prove if a seller did or did
not scan the QR code, and if perhaps it's just not scanning properly? Sellers
are not LEGO employees, nor are they affiliated with LEGO in any way other than
selling on the BrickLink platform. It opens up a large can of worms for troubleshooting
issues or finger-pointing that may not be warranted.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Sep 12, 2023 04:23 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, Emporiosa writes:
| | In General, CE_Eric writes:
| | There is a measurable (albeit perhaps miniscule) value to an unscanned QR code
that IMO should be acknowledged with a "New" or "Used" condition.
I know this is going to be a challenge for some sellers, but in good faith and
fairness, I think the definition of "New" instruction condition includes
the QR code is unused for Insider Points.
If an instruction's QR code is "Used" to obtain Insider Points, would
it not follow that it is in a "Used" condition? Coffee cup stains, or
obvious wear on an instruction's pages would also objectively show that it
is Used, even if the QR code is unused, no?
|
I understand both sides of the discussion, but in reality... trying to manage
the points thing will be a nightmare. How does one prove if a seller did or did
not scan the QR code, and if perhaps it's just not scanning properly? Sellers
are not LEGO employees, nor are they affiliated with LEGO in any way other than
selling on the BrickLink platform. It opens up a large can of worms for troubleshooting
issues or finger-pointing that may not be warranted.
|
There is also the trust for parts and minifigures to be actually new.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Sep 12, 2023 10:48 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | | | | I understand both sides of the discussion, but in reality... trying to manage
the points thing will be a nightmare. How does one prove if a seller did or did
not scan the QR code, and if perhaps it's just not scanning properly? Sellers
are not LEGO employees, nor are they affiliated with LEGO in any way other than
selling on the BrickLink platform. It opens up a large can of worms for troubleshooting
issues or finger-pointing that may not be warranted.
|
There is also the trust for parts and minifigures to be actually new.
|
100%; but these codes introduce another element which is that LEGO supports the
solution for scanning/issuing points. It's more about the question "is
it worth the trouble?" for what the value of these points are.
It's not a new issue either because we've had parts with codes before
like . The same argument could be made for parts like these, but
they're far more niche and IMO less likely to be an issue.
In the end it's not really a huge deal either way, but I could see most sellers
not take the risk with their new instructions, and many will list as used as
a precaution (or they'll just scan the points themselves and throw out/recycle
the instructions to not risk a claim).
Preferably, I'd hope BL's stance be that points are not to be expected,
and then should sellers wish to include notes of points scanned/not-scanned they
can in their listings.
To add another point; the original spirit of LEGO offering points was related
to registering the set. The act of just purchasing instructions doesn't mean
you've purchased/owned the set necessarily (even if you may have purchased
it used locally or on BL and simply needed the instructions).
https://www.lego.com/en-us/service/help/lego_insiders/lego_insiders/registering-your-lego-sets-kA06N000000Gq2vSAC
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | CE_Eric | | Posted: | Sep 12, 2023 12:55 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardCE_Eric
|
| Location: USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| Jul 19, 2023 |
|
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| BrickLink is really the community of buyers and sellers, so we're looking
for community consensus that'll serve the trust of the community.
Thank you for the historical perspective of the Minecraft parts. To me, it illustrates
that we can't depend or determine if codes have been used (also mentioned
by jennnifer).
—ET
In General, Emporiosa writes:
| | | | | | I understand both sides of the discussion, but in reality... trying to manage
the points thing will be a nightmare. How does one prove if a seller did or did
not scan the QR code, and if perhaps it's just not scanning properly? Sellers
are not LEGO employees, nor are they affiliated with LEGO in any way other than
selling on the BrickLink platform. It opens up a large can of worms for troubleshooting
issues or finger-pointing that may not be warranted.
|
There is also the trust for parts and minifigures to be actually new.
|
100%; but these codes introduce another element which is that LEGO supports the
solution for scanning/issuing points. It's more about the question "is
it worth the trouble?" for what the value of these points are.
It's not a new issue either because we've had parts with codes before
like . The same argument could be made for parts like these, but
they're far more niche and IMO less likely to be an issue.
In the end it's not really a huge deal either way, but I could see most sellers
not take the risk with their new instructions, and many will list as used as
a precaution (or they'll just scan the points themselves and throw out/recycle
the instructions to not risk a claim).
Preferably, I'd hope BL's stance be that points are not to be expected,
and then should sellers wish to include notes of points scanned/not-scanned they
can in their listings.
To add another point; the original spirit of LEGO offering points was related
to registering the set. The act of just purchasing instructions doesn't mean
you've purchased/owned the set necessarily (even if you may have purchased
it used locally or on BL and simply needed the instructions).
https://www.lego.com/en-us/service/help/lego_insiders/lego_insiders/registering-your-lego-sets-kA06N000000Gq2vSAC
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Sep 12, 2023 09:07 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, CE_Eric writes:
| | There is a measurable (albeit perhaps miniscule) value to an unscanned QR code
that IMO should be acknowledged with a "New" or "Used" condition.
I know this is going to be a challenge for some sellers, but in good faith and
fairness, I think the definition of "New" instruction condition includes
the QR code is unused for Insider Points.
If an instruction's QR code is "Used" to obtain Insider Points, would
it not follow that it is in a "Used" condition? Coffee cup stains, or
obvious wear on an instruction's pages would also objectively show that it
is Used, even if the QR code is unused, no?
|
I have to disagree. We can't expect BL sellers to ensure codes are available
and functioning.
What is the solution for identifying instruction booklets with no set numbers?
BrickLink does not identify instruction booklets by their 7-digit codes. LEGO
should be including the 5-digit set number on all booklets.
Also, if a seller sends instructions and the scan does not work, are we now responsible
for refunding the entire cost of the booklet and shipping? Or just this 'minuscule'
amount?
What if the code stops working properly because of a data problem at LEGO? Sellers
cannot test that a code is functioning without devaluing it.
~Jen
| |
In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
You have used it, just not in the traditional sense of opening the pages. But
then, there are no guidelines at all about what makes an instruction book used
or new. So any use of one, even if it is a function used that is not contained
on all booklets, would make it used.
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | CE_Eric | | Posted: | Sep 12, 2023 12:46 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardCE_Eric
|
| Location: USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| Jul 19, 2023 |
|
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| Good points. How to service the community (both sellers and buyers) fairly is
the driver. it looks like we have precedent with Minecraft parts with redemption
codes; This precedent suggests that QR codes redemption value is immaterial.
—ET
In General, jennnifer writes:
| | In General, CE_Eric writes:
| | There is a measurable (albeit perhaps miniscule) value to an unscanned QR code
that IMO should be acknowledged with a "New" or "Used" condition.
I know this is going to be a challenge for some sellers, but in good faith and
fairness, I think the definition of "New" instruction condition includes
the QR code is unused for Insider Points.
If an instruction's QR code is "Used" to obtain Insider Points, would
it not follow that it is in a "Used" condition? Coffee cup stains, or
obvious wear on an instruction's pages would also objectively show that it
is Used, even if the QR code is unused, no?
|
I have to disagree. We can't expect BL sellers to ensure codes are available
and functioning.
What is the solution for identifying instruction booklets with no set numbers?
BrickLink does not identify instruction booklets by their 7-digit codes. LEGO
should be including the 5-digit set number on all booklets.
Also, if a seller sends instructions and the scan does not work, are we now responsible
for refunding the entire cost of the booklet and shipping? Or just this 'minuscule'
amount?
What if the code stops working properly because of a data problem at LEGO? Sellers
cannot test that a code is functioning without devaluing it.
~Jen
| |
In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
You have used it, just not in the traditional sense of opening the pages. But
then, there are no guidelines at all about what makes an instruction book used
or new. So any use of one, even if it is a function used that is not contained
on all booklets, would make it used.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Sep 12, 2023 15:41 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, CE_Eric writes:
| | Good points. How to service the community (both sellers and buyers) fairly is
the driver. it looks like we have precedent with Minecraft parts with redemption
codes; This precedent suggests that QR codes redemption value is immaterial.
—ET
|
Thanks for your response! Yes, it is always a tricky balance. Of course, it would
be great to buyers to able to count on a code being valid. It's just that
the reality for sellers is not so straight-forward.
~Jen
| | In General, jennnifer writes:
| | In General, CE_Eric writes:
| | There is a measurable (albeit perhaps miniscule) value to an unscanned QR code
that IMO should be acknowledged with a "New" or "Used" condition.
I know this is going to be a challenge for some sellers, but in good faith and
fairness, I think the definition of "New" instruction condition includes
the QR code is unused for Insider Points.
If an instruction's QR code is "Used" to obtain Insider Points, would
it not follow that it is in a "Used" condition? Coffee cup stains, or
obvious wear on an instruction's pages would also objectively show that it
is Used, even if the QR code is unused, no?
|
I have to disagree. We can't expect BL sellers to ensure codes are available
and functioning.
What is the solution for identifying instruction booklets with no set numbers?
BrickLink does not identify instruction booklets by their 7-digit codes. LEGO
should be including the 5-digit set number on all booklets.
Also, if a seller sends instructions and the scan does not work, are we now responsible
for refunding the entire cost of the booklet and shipping? Or just this 'minuscule'
amount?
What if the code stops working properly because of a data problem at LEGO? Sellers
cannot test that a code is functioning without devaluing it.
~Jen
| |
In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
This is where I have a slight disagreement. I have the new Bowser set and have
built it out myself completely, but I work at a computer desk, so I used the
only PDF to save space. Since I built the set, I scanned the QR code, but never
used the instruction book at all. I only opened the cardboard sleeve to see
if there was anything in there that I actually needed for the build. Why would
I not sell the book as "New" since it was never used?
|
Because when you scanned the unique QR code, you used a built in functionality
of the booklet that is unique to your copy.
You have used it, just not in the traditional sense of opening the pages. But
then, there are no guidelines at all about what makes an instruction book used
or new. So any use of one, even if it is a function used that is not contained
on all booklets, would make it used.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | NavySTi | | Posted: | Sep 12, 2023 17:01 | | Subject: | Re: Discussion about instruction's QR codes | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| Since it appears BrickLink is looking for community input here (thank you for
that), I thought I'd share my opinion as far as new vs. used
I agree with the folks saying new = not scanned, and used = maybe or maybe not
scanned.
I spent about 10 minutes searching for stores that have large quantities of "new"
instructions for cheap prices. I was able to find a store that had upwards of
875 "small" instruction booklets listed as "new" with an average
price of around 6 cents each. Understanding we could probably only fit 250ish
in a large flat rate box, out the door I should expect 250 sets of instructions
in a large flat rate box to show up at my door for about $35 ($20ish shipping).
I would then scan those instructions to get $37.50 worth of VIP points. Better
returns if you can maximize the # of instructions to shipping volume / cost...smaller
booklets or larger volume / price...
Obviously the time effort on this example isn't worth the return, however,
the point is a buyer would expect to be able to get those points when buying
"new" instructions.
Stores that part out large numbers of sets (hundreds to thousands) can decide
if they want to pocket that $15-$150 worth of VIP points themselves, or let
their customers - by deciding if they want to list them as new or used. (Just
like the rest of us smaller stores can decide for our smaller margins...)
Yes, there are going to be instances where a new instruction book has a messed
up QR code, and can't be scanned, but I'm guessing that is going to be
as rare as a new part having noticable damage, or a figure having horribly off
printing....relatively rare...and when it happens, make it right by refunding
them 15 cents?
Thanks for reading,
A rarely shared opinion from Robert @ Little Bug's Bricks.
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