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| | | Author: | sw_lego_lover  | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2023 11:59 | | Subject: | Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
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| | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2023 12:10 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
Hi,
It depends.
For variants that have different entries in the catalogue, like
then, yes, the sellers are supposed to list them correctly.
For “alternate IDs” / unrecognized|unsplit variants, like 578, 21462, or 28697
instead of , then no.
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| | | | | Author: | pcthurman | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2023 15:43 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
If you need to buy parts that have an alternate number and you need a specific
one, you will have to contact the store and ask them if they have the correct
part in hand.
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | sw_lego_lover | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 11:51 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, pcthurman writes:
| | In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
If you need to buy parts that have an alternate number and you need a specific
one, you will have to contact the store and ask them if they have the correct
part in hand.
|
Is this documented by LEGO anywhere? The fact I had to post on this forum to
find out the answer is not acceptable.
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 12:20 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | In Help, pcthurman writes:
| | In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
If you need to buy parts that have an alternate number and you need a specific
one, you will have to contact the store and ask them if they have the correct
part in hand.
|
Is this documented by LEGO anywhere? The fact I had to post on this forum to
find out the answer is not acceptable.
|
What is not acceptable?
Parts that appear identical with no difference in function get listed as the
same part. For example:
has Item No: 30381 Alternate Item No: 96232, 98011.
You would not be able to tell if you had a 96232 or 98011 instead of a 30381.
Hence they get added to the same listing. Searches for these numbers will return
30381.
Whereas these parts are different:
although two of them also have alternate item numbers (eg. 12825 is also 2555).
Then there are parts like 3794 where LEGO didn't distinguish them but bricklink
does.
but the totally different but similar jumper 15573
However, BL does not distinguish between 3794b with and without a hole in the
underside.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 12:35 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | In Help, pcthurman writes:
| | In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
If you need to buy parts that have an alternate number and you need a specific
one, you will have to contact the store and ask them if they have the correct
part in hand.
|
Is this documented by LEGO anywhere? The fact I had to post on this forum to
find out the answer is not acceptable.
|
By LEGO, huh?
First off, we have similar part variants: 4864b and 87552 for example.
They have a relationship denoting that they are different catalog items but could
be easily confused with another part.
Then, we have Alternate Item numbers. 87552 vs 35378 & 94638. Alternate numbers
are different mold numbers or Design ID's LEGO uses that are functionally
the same part as determined by our catalog admins.
Which are you referring to?
Sellers do not have to differentiate Alternate numbers. This can be inferred
from the fact that all the alternates are piled under one catalog entry.
There is no rule that sellers may list different similar variants under the incorrect
catalog listing. There is also no rule saying they may not. That's the same
as saying the sellers may not list Brown parts and sell Reddish Brown parts.
It's just common sense.
What you may be encountering is the culture of Undetermined variants that exists
within the seller and buyer community. Some sellers don't care about the
variants they sell. Some buyers don't care what variants they buy. Mostly,
the issue is caused by sellers who can't afford the time to sort or just
won't bother to learn the differences. The catalog didn't always have
good references, so it was more difficult in the past to distinguish parts. It's
no small feat to know, distinguish, and list the incredible list of very similar
parts in our catalog.
Also, keep in mind that this is an open marketplace. Think for a moment about
the kind of enforcement that would be required for BrickLink to actively monitor
sellers for mixing up 4085a and 4085b. Yikes.
Sorry that this seems unacceptable to you, but the fact is that no rule needs
to be created to dictate that parts listed are actually the parts they are. If
BrickLink were to make one, they would need to enforce it, and that would be
a nightmare. New/Used, Sealed/Opened, Complete/Incomplete. These things have
rules and enforcing them is, let's say... difficult at best.
Hope that helps,
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | sw_lego_lover | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 16:06 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, jennnifer writes:
| | In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | In Help, pcthurman writes:
| | In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
If you need to buy parts that have an alternate number and you need a specific
one, you will have to contact the store and ask them if they have the correct
part in hand.
|
Is this documented by LEGO anywhere? The fact I had to post on this forum to
find out the answer is not acceptable.
|
By LEGO, huh?
First off, we have similar part variants: 4864b and 87552 for example.
They have a relationship denoting that they are different catalog items but could
be easily confused with another part.
Then, we have Alternate Item numbers. 87552 vs 35378 & 94638. Alternate numbers
are different mold numbers or Design ID's LEGO uses that are functionally
the same part as determined by our catalog admins.
Which are you referring to?
Sellers do not have to differentiate Alternate numbers. This can be inferred
from the fact that all the alternates are piled under one catalog entry.
There is no rule that sellers may list different similar variants under the incorrect
catalog listing. There is also no rule saying they may not. That's the same
as saying the sellers may not list Brown parts and sell Reddish Brown parts.
It's just common sense.
What you may be encountering is the culture of Undetermined variants that exists
within the seller and buyer community. Some sellers don't care about the
variants they sell. Some buyers don't care what variants they buy. Mostly,
the issue is caused by sellers who can't afford the time to sort or just
won't bother to learn the differences. The catalog didn't always have
good references, so it was more difficult in the past to distinguish parts. It's
no small feat to know, distinguish, and list the incredible list of very similar
parts in our catalog.
Also, keep in mind that this is an open marketplace. Think for a moment about
the kind of enforcement that would be required for BrickLink to actively monitor
sellers for mixing up 4085a and 4085b. Yikes.
Sorry that this seems unacceptable to you, but the fact is that no rule needs
to be created to dictate that parts listed are actually the parts they are. If
BrickLink were to make one, they would need to enforce it, and that would be
a nightmare. New/Used, Sealed/Opened, Complete/Incomplete. These things have
rules and enforcing them is, let's say... difficult at best.
Hope that helps,
Jen
|
Thanks for the response Jen.
Bricklink is owned by LEGO. I consider them the same, hence LEGO.
Does *Bricklink* document this anywhere? As in "the platform", not the
specific seller. This is an issue at the platform level, not the seller. And
apparently only impacts buyers based on what you've said. You've also
clearly indicated "it is no small feat" to know, & distinguish parts.
Imagine how much effort and money that costs buyers.
To be clear, what is unacceptable isn't the fact the variants scenario exists,
but that there is NO mention or warning of this before a purchase is made. It
is fully left to the buyer to deduce/learn this issue exists. Not a single aspect
of the buying experience indicates you might get something other than what you
thought you were buying.
And then the problem rests on the buyer to negotiate/complain to the seller.
That just seems like a very bad model.
The suggested solution:
I feel like the BL interface could do something very easy to expose the fact
that alt IDs exist for parts being bought, like perhaps right in the cart/checkout.
Just a small code change that covers all orders, which notes parts are in the
order that have "alternate item #'s". Warning the user that it is
their responsibility to review this. Of course, it'd be much better to note
the *exact* parts with this issue of course. So, probably smarter, make the alternate
item # issue noticeable while searching through a store.
That warning alone would have helped me in my situation. A simple warning, no
"rules".
Along with that, BL could also offer up a preference to raise this warning or
not, each time it occurs. Depending on how common this issue is, the more
important the preference implementation is.
And finally, placing this useful information into a FAQ for "Buying on BL"
would be another way to help users.
I think that's a much more reasonable approach than letting users buy the
wrong thing OR monitoring/policing all sellers inventory. Just making sure the
platform is communicating better with potential buyers can solve the issue.
Its a fairly elegant solution to a problem that very likely has burned buyers
(and sellers) in the past. And I'd argue minimal code or data costs or sales
friction if done well. And to simplify it even more, BL could just have a permanent
static warning on the checkout page.
Would love to hear if others have a better solution for this problem.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 16:58 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | In Help, jennnifer writes:
| | In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | In Help, pcthurman writes:
| | In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
If you need to buy parts that have an alternate number and you need a specific
one, you will have to contact the store and ask them if they have the correct
part in hand.
|
Is this documented by LEGO anywhere? The fact I had to post on this forum to
find out the answer is not acceptable.
|
By LEGO, huh?
First off, we have similar part variants: 4864b and 87552 for example.
They have a relationship denoting that they are different catalog items but could
be easily confused with another part.
Then, we have Alternate Item numbers. 87552 vs 35378 & 94638. Alternate numbers
are different mold numbers or Design ID's LEGO uses that are functionally
the same part as determined by our catalog admins.
Which are you referring to?
Sellers do not have to differentiate Alternate numbers. This can be inferred
from the fact that all the alternates are piled under one catalog entry.
There is no rule that sellers may list different similar variants under the incorrect
catalog listing. There is also no rule saying they may not. That's the same
as saying the sellers may not list Brown parts and sell Reddish Brown parts.
It's just common sense.
What you may be encountering is the culture of Undetermined variants that exists
within the seller and buyer community. Some sellers don't care about the
variants they sell. Some buyers don't care what variants they buy. Mostly,
the issue is caused by sellers who can't afford the time to sort or just
won't bother to learn the differences. The catalog didn't always have
good references, so it was more difficult in the past to distinguish parts. It's
no small feat to know, distinguish, and list the incredible list of very similar
parts in our catalog.
Also, keep in mind that this is an open marketplace. Think for a moment about
the kind of enforcement that would be required for BrickLink to actively monitor
sellers for mixing up 4085a and 4085b. Yikes.
Sorry that this seems unacceptable to you, but the fact is that no rule needs
to be created to dictate that parts listed are actually the parts they are. If
BrickLink were to make one, they would need to enforce it, and that would be
a nightmare. New/Used, Sealed/Opened, Complete/Incomplete. These things have
rules and enforcing them is, let's say... difficult at best.
Hope that helps,
Jen
|
Thanks for the response Jen.
Bricklink is owned by LEGO. I consider them the same, hence LEGO.
Does *Bricklink* document this anywhere? As in "the platform", not the
specific seller. This is an issue at the platform level, not the seller. And
apparently only impacts buyers based on what you've said. You've also
clearly indicated "it is no small feat" to know, & distinguish parts.
Imagine how much effort and money that costs buyers.
To be clear, what is unacceptable isn't the fact the variants scenario exists,
but that there is NO mention or warning of this before a purchase is made. It
is fully left to the buyer to deduce/learn this issue exists. Not a single aspect
of the buying experience indicates you might get something other than what you
thought you were buying.
And then the problem rests on the buyer to negotiate/complain to the seller.
That just seems like a very bad model.
The suggested solution:
I feel like the BL interface could do something very easy to expose the fact
that alt IDs exist for parts being bought, like perhaps right in the cart/checkout.
Just a small code change that covers all orders, which notes parts are in the
order that have "alternate item #'s". Warning the user that it is
their responsibility to review this. Of course, it'd be much better to note
the *exact* parts with this issue of course. So, probably smarter, make the alternate
item # issue noticeable while searching through a store.
That warning alone would have helped me in my situation. A simple warning, no
"rules".
Along with that, BL could also offer up a preference to raise this warning or
not, each time it occurs. Depending on how common this issue is, the more
important the preference implementation is.
And finally, placing this useful information into a FAQ for "Buying on BL"
would be another way to help users.
I think that's a much more reasonable approach than letting users buy the
wrong thing OR monitoring/policing all sellers inventory. Just making sure the
platform is communicating better with potential buyers can solve the issue.
Its a fairly elegant solution to a problem that very likely has burned buyers
(and sellers) in the past. And I'd argue minimal code or data costs or sales
friction if done well. And to simplify it even more, BL could just have a permanent
static warning on the checkout page.
Would love to hear if others have a better solution for this problem.
|
Hello,
I see you've got a real handle on this issue now. I guess I need to qualify
my entire response as it only applies to the BrickLink that we have now. You
asked questions: Why are things this way? I answered why. I apologize if my explanation
came across as defending that it's the best way for things to be. It's
not.
The BrickLink we have now is indeed owned by LEGO but is managed by the BrickLink
office. I don't think anyone at the home office in Denmark is worried about
how mold variants affect BrickLink sales. Calling this site LEGO gives one the
wrong impression that some multi-zillion dollar corporation is going to magically
fix stuff. It's not.
We don't get solutions that require coding or changing the site and we won't
be getting it soon. We don't get FAQs or other helpful stuff. Right now,
they only fix things that are required by law, will keep basic transactions running,
or are their pet side projects.
If this phase ever ends, then yes, your suggestions are excellent. There are
many ways to solve this, from FAQs to buyer/seller education to umbrella catalog
entries. Fingers crossed that the developers will be listening when the time
comes. 
In the meantime, if a buyer wants a specific variant, they should help themselves
and confirm a seller really has it. Sorry.
Thanks,
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | sw_lego_lover | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2023 20:06 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, jennnifer writes:
| |
Hello,
I see you've got a real handle on this issue now. I guess I need to qualify
my entire response as it only applies to the BrickLink that we have now. You
asked questions: Why are things this way? I answered why. I apologize if my explanation
came across as defending that it's the best way for things to be. It's
not.
The BrickLink we have now is indeed owned by LEGO but is managed by the BrickLink
office. I don't think anyone at the home office in Denmark is worried about
how mold variants affect BrickLink sales. Calling this site LEGO gives one the
wrong impression that some multi-zillion dollar corporation is going to magically
fix stuff. It's not.
We don't get solutions that require coding or changing the site and we won't
be getting it soon. We don't get FAQs or other helpful stuff. Right now,
they only fix things that are required by law, will keep basic transactions running,
or are their pet side projects.
If this phase ever ends, then yes, your suggestions are excellent. There are
many ways to solve this, from FAQs to buyer/seller education to umbrella catalog
entries. Fingers crossed that the developers will be listening when the time
comes.
In the meantime, if a buyer wants a specific variant, they should help themselves
and confirm a seller really has it. Sorry.
Thanks,
Jen
|
Thanks for the response. I think you hit the nail on the head there, with the
lack of development rn on BL. Nothing can be done at this point, so its status
quo for now.
Just make sure they continue to patch the security here!
Take care!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 17:59 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Help | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 18:00 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Just for the perspective, viewed from here and 65000+ orders shipped:
* 99.9999% of buyers strictly don't care for variations,
* a vast majority of the MOCS and such don't NEED a specific variation.
Of course some people need specific versions, but frankly, you're important,
of course, but rare.
At least our POV here.
In case this can help?
|
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| | | | | Author: | udenbricks | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 17:15 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
You can check this:
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogRelCat.asp?relID=4
|
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2023 18:44 | | Subject: | Re: Parts & alternate item #'s in seller stores ? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, sw_lego_lover writes:
| | I'm just a buyer here.
Does BL permit/require sellers to denote the exact part ID (regular or alternate
item #) when they sell?
So if I see part 12345 for sale in a store, can I assume they are not providing
an alternate part 54321? (assuming their policy indicates nothing)
Or does BL have sellers list all variants under the same part ID? Hence obfuscating
the actual part you might be receiving?
|
This topic seems to come up in the forum a lot.
Generally speaking, sellers are supposed to list parts under the correct catalog
entry; however, in practice sellers sometimes list parts under the wrong entry,
either by mistake or many just don't care enough to take the time to separate
minor variants.
BrickLink does not require sellers to distinguish between alternate item numbers
for the same catalog entry. Doing so is permitted but completely voluntary.
The reality is many buyers simply don't care which variant they receive so
many sellers don't bother to sort.
Do you have a specific part number in mind? Some variants cause more trouble
than others.
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USA, Connecticut
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Noord-Brabant
