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| | | Author: | bigasbricks  | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 17:08 | | Subject: | How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 413 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
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| | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 17:14 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 114 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | Author: | bigasbricks | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 17:18 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 108 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| Interesting perspective thanks for sharing.
In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Ziegelmeister | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 18:28 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Interesting perspective thanks for sharing.
In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
|
|
Personally? Personally I’d prefer people were this transparent. Their logic
is fair for a neutral feedback but a little harsh for a negative, but to each
their own. As the seller it’s our responsibility to fix the situation somehow
and more often than not that is a majority of how the sellers are grading us.
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| | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 06:08 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
|
But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
The buyer is entitled to have the matter resolved to their satisfaction but if
I was the seller I would be telling the buyer not to bring feedback into discussion
as the feedback is for them alone to decide upon once the transaction is completed.
It should never be used as a bargaining tool especially since when a seller refunds
a buyer they want it to be clear that they've resolved the issue themselves
out of their own goodwill and not just because of their backs being against the
wall due unnecessary threats which will only be frustrating from a seller perspective!
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | jbroman | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 15:36 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 100 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
|
But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
The buyer is entitled to have the matter resolved to their satisfaction but if
I was the seller I would be telling the buyer not to bring feedback into discussion
as the feedback is for them alone to decide upon once the transaction is completed.
It should never be used as a bargaining tool especially since when a seller refunds
a buyer they want it to be clear that they've resolved the issue themselves
out of their own goodwill and not just because of their backs being against the
wall due unnecessary threats which will only be frustrating from a seller perspective!
|
Unfortunately, since it was sent via email and not the BL message system, the
help desk won’t do anything about it.
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=97&q=Email+
“Reporting suspected Feedback extortion
Please note that we can't accept reports of Feedback extortion received through
email outside of BrickLink because these can be easily falsified. In order to
protect you, we recommend you always use the BrickLink Contact form to communicate
with your buyer or seller.”
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 08:26 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, jbroman writes:
| | In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
|
But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
The buyer is entitled to have the matter resolved to their satisfaction but if
I was the seller I would be telling the buyer not to bring feedback into discussion
as the feedback is for them alone to decide upon once the transaction is completed.
It should never be used as a bargaining tool especially since when a seller refunds
a buyer they want it to be clear that they've resolved the issue themselves
out of their own goodwill and not just because of their backs being against the
wall due unnecessary threats which will only be frustrating from a seller perspective!
|
Unfortunately, since it was sent via email and not the BL message system, the
help desk won’t do anything about it.
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=97&q=Email+
“Reporting suspected Feedback extortion
Please note that we can't accept reports of Feedback extortion received through
email outside of BrickLink because these can be easily falsified. In order to
protect you, we recommend you always use the BrickLink Contact form to communicate
with your buyer or seller.”
|
Easy fix, just copy & paste the mail into a reply BL-message.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 08:30 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| | |
Easy fix, just copy & paste the mail into a reply BL-message.
|
The receiver of the message becomes the sender of it. And they can manipulate
the copied text to say anything they want and so BL should ignore any complaint
the sender now has about that message.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:40 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, jbroman writes:
| | In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
|
But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
The buyer is entitled to have the matter resolved to their satisfaction but if
I was the seller I would be telling the buyer not to bring feedback into discussion
as the feedback is for them alone to decide upon once the transaction is completed.
It should never be used as a bargaining tool especially since when a seller refunds
a buyer they want it to be clear that they've resolved the issue themselves
out of their own goodwill and not just because of their backs being against the
wall due unnecessary threats which will only be frustrating from a seller perspective!
|
Unfortunately, since it was sent via email and not the BL message system, the
help desk won’t do anything about it.
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=97&q=Email+
“Reporting suspected Feedback extortion
Please note that we can't accept reports of Feedback extortion received through
email outside of BrickLink because these can be easily falsified. In order to
protect you, we recommend you always use the BrickLink Contact form to communicate
with your buyer or seller.”
|
Its not blackmail not extortion, come off it. The buyer gave an option, neutral
feedback or send the missing parts. He also could have said nothing and just
gave neutral feedback and then the seller would have complained the buyer didnt
come to him first to fix it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:11 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, Poncke writes:
| |
Its not blackmail not extortion, come off it. The buyer gave an option, neutral
feedback or send the missing parts. He also could have said nothing and just
gave neutral feedback and then the seller would have complained the buyer didnt
come to him first to fix it.
|
So basically "Send me the missing parts or you get neutral feedback"
is not blackmail?
What if the seller is unable to resolve in this way?
The buyer can still come to the seller first about how they would like the issue
resolved without the need to mention feedback??
Then they can then leave whatever feedback they like just don't be telling
a seller what you will leave them based on each outcome as its just not the done
thing nor is it helpful!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:14 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| No, no it's not.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, Poncke writes:
| |
Its not blackmail not extortion, come off it. The buyer gave an option, neutral
feedback or send the missing parts. He also could have said nothing and just
gave neutral feedback and then the seller would have complained the buyer didnt
come to him first to fix it.
|
So basically "Send me the missing parts or you get neutral feedback"
is not blackmail?
What if the seller is unable to resolve in this way?
The buyer can still come to the seller first about how they would like the issue
resolved without the need to mention feedback??
Then they can then leave whatever feedback they like just don't be telling
a seller what you will leave them based on each outcome as its just not the done
thing nor is it helpful!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:17 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| There are alot of sellers who state in their terms that they will only leave
feedback after feedback is left for them, your way of thinking would make them
all guilty of extorsion. Come on man!
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, Poncke writes:
| |
Its not blackmail not extortion, come off it. The buyer gave an option, neutral
feedback or send the missing parts. He also could have said nothing and just
gave neutral feedback and then the seller would have complained the buyer didnt
come to him first to fix it.
|
So basically "Send me the missing parts or you get neutral feedback"
is not blackmail?
What if the seller is unable to resolve in this way?
The buyer can still come to the seller first about how they would like the issue
resolved without the need to mention feedback??
Then they can then leave whatever feedback they like just don't be telling
a seller what you will leave them based on each outcome as its just not the done
thing nor is it helpful!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:49 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | There are alot of sellers who state in their terms that they will only leave
feedback after feedback is left for them, your way of thinking would make them
all guilty of extorsion. Come on man!
|
Good for them! Either way its not the same thing at all
But in the end if you think its good practice and necessary to use feedback threats
to get leverage over a seller then you just carry on with that as you clearly
know best....
Believe it or not most sellers will resolve issues off their own back!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 19:03 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| Not the same thing at all...
Did you not compare what happened here to me shredding my neighbours rubbish
and spreading it all over their property? Too funny.
I use money as leverage, I say here take my money and please send me what I ordered.
I do believe that, very rarely have I had to leave a less than positive feedback.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | There are alot of sellers who state in their terms that they will only leave
feedback after feedback is left for them, your way of thinking would make them
all guilty of extorsion. Come on man!
|
Good for them! Either way its not the same thing at all
But in the end if you think its good practice and necessary to use feedback threats
to get leverage over a seller then you just carry on with that as you clearly
know best....
Believe it or not most sellers will resolve issues off their own back!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 19:32 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | Not the same thing at all...
Did you not compare what happened here to me shredding my neighbours rubbish
and spreading it all over their property? Too funny.
I use money as leverage, I say here take my money and please send me what I ordered.
I do believe that, very rarely have I had to leave a less than positive feedback.
|
Same for you....
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1395922
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2023 11:36 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | There are alot of sellers who state in their terms that they will only leave
feedback after feedback is left for them, your way of thinking would make them
all guilty of extorsion. Come on man!
|
Good for them! Either way its not the same thing at all
But in the end if you think its good practice and necessary to use feedback threats
to get leverage over a seller then you just carry on with that as you clearly
know best....
Believe it or not most sellers will resolve issues off their own back!
|
Resolve off their own back?? The buyer paid for something he didnt get. If anything
the seller came off on top as he took money but didnt deliver. Looking at it
as black and white as you do.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:38 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, Poncke writes:
| |
Its not blackmail not extortion, come off it. The buyer gave an option, neutral
feedback or send the missing parts. He also could have said nothing and just
gave neutral feedback and then the seller would have complained the buyer didnt
come to him first to fix it.
|
So basically "Send me the missing parts or you get neutral feedback"
is not blackmail?
What if the seller is unable to resolve in this way?
|
If the parts aren't available to send suppose the buyer could ask for $100
and it would be fine because this is not feedback extortion but rather the buyer
using a tool to get what they are owed.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 20:07 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, zorbanj writes:
| | If the parts aren't available to send suppose the buyer could ask for $100
and it would be fine because this is not feedback extortion but rather the buyer
using a tool to get what they are owed.
|
What? The buyer is asking the seller to complete the order as placed or they
will leave neutral/negative feedback.
If the buyer said: "Give me all my money back or I will leave neutral/negative
feedback" that would be extortion as it does not comply with the contract
of X dollars for X parts (aka the order that was placed).
You can't just straw man an argument to win it, use the facts on hand not
whatever you want...
Read the the site for yourself, pretty simple:
Feedback Extortion: As a Buyer, demand additional goods, services or refunds
over and above what was agreed in the original transaction with the threat of
negative Feedback if the Seller does not comply with such demand. Sellers are
not allowed to require Buyers to leave positive Feedback or revise existing Feedback
in exchange for shipping items, completing refund requests or providing monetary
compensation. Sellers are, however, allowed to ask the Buyer to leave positive
Feedback at the end of a successful transaction. Please note that we can't
accept reports of Feedback extortion received through email outside of the Site
because these can be easily falsified. In order to protect yourself, we recommend
you always use the BrickLink messaging system to communicate with your Buyer
or Seller. If you have experienced feedback extortion, please contact
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2023 04:02 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| In Feedback, zorbanj writes:
| | In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, Poncke writes:
| |
Its not blackmail not extortion, come off it. The buyer gave an option, neutral
feedback or send the missing parts. He also could have said nothing and just
gave neutral feedback and then the seller would have complained the buyer didnt
come to him first to fix it.
|
So basically "Send me the missing parts or you get neutral feedback"
is not blackmail?
What if the seller is unable to resolve in this way?
|
If the parts aren't available to send suppose the buyer could ask for $100
and it would be fine because this is not feedback extortion but rather the buyer
using a tool to get what they are owed.
|
No, that would be extortion. Read the written definition of feedback extortion.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 18:49 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| This is a textbook example of feedback extortion. Would love to be given examples
of feedback extortion from those who don't agree.
There is no reason to mention feedback in the very first contact email with a
seller who has almost 19,00 orders and a 99.72% feedback percentage. Buyer's
prior experiences with other sellers doesn't give them permission to threaten
other sellers.
Lastly, I think the message was sent outside of the BL message system on purpose.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
|
But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
The buyer is entitled to have the matter resolved to their satisfaction but if
I was the seller I would be telling the buyer not to bring feedback into discussion
as the feedback is for them alone to decide upon once the transaction is completed.
It should never be used as a bargaining tool especially since when a seller refunds
a buyer they want it to be clear that they've resolved the issue themselves
out of their own goodwill and not just because of their backs being against the
wall due unnecessary threats which will only be frustrating from a seller perspective!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 20:19 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| If the buyer had included a line saying something along the lines of "and
refund half my money or all of my money" then I would agree with you on
it looking like feedback extorsion... but he didn't.
I will leave you neg feedback if you do not correct your error but will probably
leave you a pos if you do.
Totally reasonable.
In Feedback, zorbanj writes:
| | This is a textbook example of feedback extortion. Would love to be given examples
of feedback extortion from those who don't agree.
There is no reason to mention feedback in the very first contact email with a
seller who has almost 19,00 orders and a 99.72% feedback percentage. Buyer's
prior experiences with other sellers doesn't give them permission to threaten
other sellers.
Lastly, I think the message was sent outside of the BL message system on purpose.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | It's not really feedback manipulation if there's an error with the order;
the guy bought 12 parts and got 10, reached out, and what they said is fair -
they gave you a chance to fix the issue, and if not, they would leave a neutral/negative
Neutral would be reasonable, but a negative would be too far - instead of coming
to the forums, why not try to resolve with the customer first?
|
But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
The buyer is entitled to have the matter resolved to their satisfaction but if
I was the seller I would be telling the buyer not to bring feedback into discussion
as the feedback is for them alone to decide upon once the transaction is completed.
It should never be used as a bargaining tool especially since when a seller refunds
a buyer they want it to be clear that they've resolved the issue themselves
out of their own goodwill and not just because of their backs being against the
wall due unnecessary threats which will only be frustrating from a seller perspective!
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 06:50 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | If the buyer had included a line saying something along the lines of "and
refund half my money or all of my money" then I would agree with you on
it looking like feedback extorsion... but he didn't.
I will leave you neg feedback if you do not correct your error but will probably
leave you a pos if you do.
Totally reasonable.
|
No its not reasonable because its still feedback extortion??
The buyer should advise the seller what they feel should be done in order to
fix the issue for them be that replacement sent, refund etc.. There is no need
to mention feedback!
It is then down to the seller to resolve the issue to the buyers satisfaction
(within reason) If the seller is already made aware of the buyers expectations
they can either resolve to the buyers satisfaction or choose not to resolve to
the buyers expectations and risk whatever feedback that may bring! Its already
pretty clear that not resolving adequately could have feedback repercussions
therefore it doesn't require the need for a buyer to spell it out directly.
The seller should be trying to do the right thing anyway without the need for
threats of feedback and is is for the buyer alone to decide the feedback they
feel appropriate based on the sellers resolution attempt or lack of!?
Likewise a seller should never say stuff like "Okay I will send a refund/replacement
as long as you leave positive feedback!"
However it might be acceptable for the seller to say something like "Okay
I will send a refund/replacement and if everything has been resolved to your
satisfaction we hope you might consider leaving positive feedback"
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 13:20 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| I do not believe it is extorsion so much as an unsolicited explanation of how
the feedback system works.
Its like Karen threatening to complain to the manager
petty and a little douchey but not extorsion.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | If the buyer had included a line saying something along the lines of "and
refund half my money or all of my money" then I would agree with you on
it looking like feedback extorsion... but he didn't.
I will leave you neg feedback if you do not correct your error but will probably
leave you a pos if you do.
Totally reasonable.
|
No its not reasonable because its still feedback extortion??
The buyer should advise the seller what they feel should be done in order to
fix the issue for them be that replacement sent, refund etc.. There is no need
to mention feedback!
It is then down to the seller to resolve the issue to the buyers satisfaction
(within reason) If the seller is already made aware of the buyers expectations
they can either resolve to the buyers satisfaction or choose not to resolve to
the buyers expectations and risk whatever feedback that may bring! Its already
pretty clear that not resolving adequately could have feedback repercussions
therefore it doesn't require the need for a buyer to spell it out directly.
The seller should be trying to do the right thing anyway without the need for
threats of feedback and is is for the buyer alone to decide the feedback they
feel appropriate based on the sellers resolution attempt or lack of!?
Likewise a seller should never say stuff like "Okay I will send a refund/replacement
as long as you leave positive feedback!"
However it might be acceptable for the seller to say something like "Okay
I will send a refund/replacement and if everything has been resolved to your
satisfaction we hope you might consider leaving positive feedback"
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 15:55 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | I do not believe it is extorsion so much as an unsolicited explanation of how
the feedback system works.
|
You really think the seller needs to understand how the feedback system works
either way they certainly don't need a buyer dictating to them how its going
to work?
It's very simple, give the seller the opportunity to resolve the issue then
after the transaction is complete the buyer leaves feedback based on their experience
is that really so hard?
If your neighbour keeps blocking your drive with their bin bags which of these
two forms of communication do you think will have the best desired response?
"Please can you move your bin bags clear of my drive"
"If you don't move your bin bags clear of my drive I'll move them
myself and empty the contents over your lawn!"
This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:16 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| lol I don't think the comparison you have made is valid.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | I do not believe it is extorsion so much as an unsolicited explanation of how
the feedback system works.
|
You really think the seller needs to understand how the feedback system works
either way they certainly don't need a buyer dictating to them how its going
to work?
It's very simple, give the seller the opportunity to resolve the issue then
after the transaction is complete the buyer leaves feedback based on their experience
is that really so hard?
If your neighbour keeps blocking your drive with their bin bags which of these
two forms of communication do you think will have the best desired response?
"Please can you move your bin bags clear of my drive"
"If you don't move your bin bags clear of my drive I'll move them
myself and empty the contents over your lawn!"
This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:18 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| and yes YES some sellers in fact do need to be told how things work. 100%
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | I do not believe it is extorsion so much as an unsolicited explanation of how
the feedback system works.
|
You really think the seller needs to understand how the feedback system works
either way they certainly don't need a buyer dictating to them how its going
to work?
It's very simple, give the seller the opportunity to resolve the issue then
after the transaction is complete the buyer leaves feedback based on their experience
is that really so hard?
If your neighbour keeps blocking your drive with their bin bags which of these
two forms of communication do you think will have the best desired response?
"Please can you move your bin bags clear of my drive"
"If you don't move your bin bags clear of my drive I'll move them
myself and empty the contents over your lawn!"
This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:22 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
I don't believe there was ever any discussion of a refund, that might have
brought 'extorsion' into the equation but it didn't happen.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:30 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | | | This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
I don't believe there was ever any discussion of a refund, that might have
brought 'extorsion' into the equation but it didn't happen.
|
Be it Refund, replacement it does not matter its just an example
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:33 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| but its not a replacement, its the pieces that he was shorted. There is a significant
difference.
He was not trying to capture something that he was not entitled to by making
a threat or extort, he was saying complete the legal transaction we have entered
into or I will take the appropriate steps to punish your lack of proper business
sense.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | | | This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
I don't believe there was ever any discussion of a refund, that might have
brought 'extorsion' into the equation but it didn't happen.
|
Be it Refund, replacement it does not matter its just an example
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:38 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| and I have called the OP petty, abrupt and douchey. So lets not think I am saying
what he did is correct but it is far from extorsion or manipulation.
In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | but its not a replacement, its the pieces that he was shorted. There is a significant
difference.
He was not trying to capture something that he was not entitled to by making
a threat or extort, he was saying complete the legal transaction we have entered
into or I will take the appropriate steps to punish your lack of proper business
sense.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | | | This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
I don't believe there was ever any discussion of a refund, that might have
brought 'extorsion' into the equation but it didn't happen.
|
Be it Refund, replacement it does not matter its just an example
|
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:20 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | but its not a replacement, its the pieces that he was shorted. There is a significant
difference.
|
It doesn't matter be it refund, replacement, missing parts but for your
benefit lets focus on the OPs example...
| | He was not trying to capture something that he was not entitled to by making
a threat or extort, he was saying complete the legal transaction we have entered
into or I will take the appropriate steps to punish your lack of proper business
sense.
|
Yes and this is still feedback extortion!
There is no need to threaten a seller with feedback just because a mistake has
been made! Mistakes happen! It might actually be better for the buyer to be a
bit more understanding to the fact that mistakes can occur rather than by saying
to the seller I'm gonna leave negative if you don't get me the parts
I need which actually comes across a little child like as though they are unable
to accept when things don't go the way they hoped because in simple terms
if the seller can't get the parts, then they cant get the parts and may need
to resolve in another way. Whether the buyer is accepting and understanding to
this is up to them and they can leave what they feel is appropriate feedback
without the need to put the seller on edge with cheap feedback threats!
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:39 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Just because you state it does not make it so.
There is a defined rule, there are defined laws.
This does not amount to extorsion.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | but its not a replacement, its the pieces that he was shorted. There is a significant
difference.
|
It doesn't matter be it refund, replacement, missing parts but for your
benefit lets focus on the OPs example...
| | He was not trying to capture something that he was not entitled to by making
a threat or extort, he was saying complete the legal transaction we have entered
into or I will take the appropriate steps to punish your lack of proper business
sense.
|
Yes and this is still feedback extortion!
There is no need to threaten a seller with feedback just because a mistake has
been made! Mistakes happen! It might actually be better for the buyer to be a
bit more understanding to the fact that mistakes can occur rather than by saying
to the seller I'm gonna leave negative if you don't get me the parts
I need which actually comes across a little child like as though they are unable
to accept when things don't go the way they hoped because in simple terms
if the seller can't get the parts, then they cant get the parts and may need
to resolve in another way. Whether the buyer is accepting and understanding to
this is up to them and they can leave what they feel is appropriate feedback
without the need to put the seller on edge with cheap feedback threats!
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:43 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | I do not believe it is extorsion so much as an unsolicited explanation of how
the feedback system works.
|
You really think the seller needs to understand how the feedback system works
either way they certainly don't need a buyer dictating to them how its going
to work?
It's very simple, give the seller the opportunity to resolve the issue then
after the transaction is complete the buyer leaves feedback based on their experience
is that really so hard?
If your neighbour keeps blocking your drive with their bin bags which of these
two forms of communication do you think will have the best desired response?
"Please can you move your bin bags clear of my drive"
"If you don't move your bin bags clear of my drive I'll move them
myself and empty the contents over your lawn!"
This is little different to:-
"please can I have a refund"
"If you don't give me a refund I'm leaving negative feedback"
Its unnecessary and just plain bad conduct!
|
he gave the seller a choice, leave the missing parts but have neutral feedback
or send the missing parts have positive feedback, just a choice. lets not burn
the buyer for the seller's mistake.
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 03:22 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, zorbanj writes:
| | This is a textbook example of feedback extortion. Would love to be given examples
of feedback extortion from those who don't agree.
There is no reason to mention feedback in the very first contact email with a
seller who has almost 19,00 orders and a 99.72% feedback percentage. Buyer's
prior experiences with other sellers doesn't give them permission to threaten
other sellers.
Lastly, I think the message was sent outside of the BL message system on purpose.
|
Asking for more than a seller is likely to give and mentioning negative feedback
would be extortion to me. In this case, saying what he wants the seller to do
to put the mistakes right is spot on. Should he have mentioned feedback? Probably
not. But then if this is feedback extortion then a lot of sellers are also guilty
of feedback extortion too. Including a note in an order saying when they will
leave feedback can be viewed as getting the buyer to do something using feedback
as a driver for that action. Saying they will give coupons if positive feedback
is left can be seen as a reward for doing so, or as extortion depending on your
viewpoint.
As for messaging outside of bricklink, I reckon at least 50% abd probably closer
to 75% of customer contact after an order is made via email rather than the messaging
system. Especially from newer buyers.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:52 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | In Feedback, zorbanj writes:
| | This is a textbook example of feedback extortion. Would love to be given examples
of feedback extortion from those who don't agree.
There is no reason to mention feedback in the very first contact email with a
seller who has almost 19,00 orders and a 99.72% feedback percentage. Buyer's
prior experiences with other sellers doesn't give them permission to threaten
other sellers.
Lastly, I think the message was sent outside of the BL message system on purpose.
|
Asking for more than a seller is likely to give and mentioning negative feedback
would be extortion to me. In this case, saying what he wants the seller to do
to put the mistakes right is spot on. Should he have mentioned feedback? Probably
not.
|
Buyer is using a threat (negative FB) to obtain something he wants. This is extortion.
Had the buyer pointed out the shortage and asked for the missing pieces to be
sent that woud have been fine.
| | But then if this is feedback extortion then a lot of sellers are also guilty
of feedback extortion too. Including a note in an order saying when they will
leave feedback can be viewed as getting the buyer to do something using feedback
as a driver for that action. Saying they will give coupons if positive feedback
is left can be seen as a reward for doing so, or as extortion depending on your
viewpoint.
|
I would agree, these are also examples of feedback extortion.
| | As for messaging outside of bricklink, I reckon at least 50% abd probably closer
to 75% of customer contact after an order is made via email rather than the messaging
system. Especially from newer buyers.
|
That hasn't been my experience but even so, I still think the msg was sent
outside of BL on purpose.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:02 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | |
Buyer is using a threat (negative FB) to obtain something he wants. This is extortion.
Had the buyer pointed out the shortage and asked for the missing pieces to be
sent that woud have been fine.
|
It is not feedback extortion according to the BL rules. He is using it to get
something he ordered and did not receive, not something extra that he wants.
There is a written rule defining feedback extortion. What is the point of the
written rules if different and undeclared rules are used?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:37 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Buyer is using a threat to obtain something he wants.
No.
The buyer is using a tool to get something he is owed.
Big difference.
In Feedback, zorbanj writes:
| | In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | In Feedback, zorbanj writes:
| | This is a textbook example of feedback extortion. Would love to be given examples
of feedback extortion from those who don't agree.
There is no reason to mention feedback in the very first contact email with a
seller who has almost 19,00 orders and a 99.72% feedback percentage. Buyer's
prior experiences with other sellers doesn't give them permission to threaten
other sellers.
Lastly, I think the message was sent outside of the BL message system on purpose.
|
Asking for more than a seller is likely to give and mentioning negative feedback
would be extortion to me. In this case, saying what he wants the seller to do
to put the mistakes right is spot on. Should he have mentioned feedback? Probably
not.
|
Buyer is using a threat (negative FB) to obtain something he wants. This is extortion.
Had the buyer pointed out the shortage and asked for the missing pieces to be
sent that woud have been fine.
| | But then if this is feedback extortion then a lot of sellers are also guilty
of feedback extortion too. Including a note in an order saying when they will
leave feedback can be viewed as getting the buyer to do something using feedback
as a driver for that action. Saying they will give coupons if positive feedback
is left can be seen as a reward for doing so, or as extortion depending on your
viewpoint.
|
I would agree, these are also examples of feedback extortion.
| | As for messaging outside of bricklink, I reckon at least 50% abd probably closer
to 75% of customer contact after an order is made via email rather than the messaging
system. Especially from newer buyers.
|
That hasn't been my experience but even so, I still think the msg was sent
outside of BL on purpose.
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:57 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | Buyer is using a threat to obtain something he wants.
No.
The buyer is using a tool to get something he is owed.
Big difference.
|
No the buyer is using a threat to obtain an OUTCOME he wants but that form of
resolution may not be achievable by the seller making it poor conduct!
If the buyer wants to leave the seller negative leave them negative but don't
make unnecessary idle threats to get your way!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:11 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| It is an outcome he deserves, he ordered, paid for, patiently waited for and
then received less than was promised via the transaction.
Not nice, not polite and 100% not extorsion.
There was a politician up here in Canada caught on camera all drunk in a bar
talking about how "if you say it loudly enough over and over people will
believe you", you sound like her.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | Buyer is using a threat to obtain something he wants.
No.
The buyer is using a tool to get something he is owed.
Big difference.
|
No the buyer is using a threat to obtain an OUTCOME he wants but that form of
resolution may not be achievable by the seller making it poor conduct!
If the buyer wants to leave the seller negative leave them negative but don't
make unnecessary idle threats to get your way!
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:26 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | It is an outcome he deserves, he ordered, paid for, patiently waited for and
then received less than was promised via the transaction.
Not nice, not polite and 100% not extorsion.
There was a politician up here in Canada caught on camera all drunk in a bar
talking about how "if you say it loudly enough over and over people will
believe you", you sound like her.
|
You've clearly learnt a lot from her?
Your probably the type of person that walks into a restaurant and says to the
restaurant owner "give me a good meal or I'm writing a bad review!"
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:28 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| You can tell what kind of person I am by going back and reading any correspondence
between us when I placed an order in your store.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | It is an outcome he deserves, he ordered, paid for, patiently waited for and
then received less than was promised via the transaction.
Not nice, not polite and 100% not extorsion.
There was a politician up here in Canada caught on camera all drunk in a bar
talking about how "if you say it loudly enough over and over people will
believe you", you sound like her.
|
You've clearly learnt a lot from her?
Your probably the type of person that walks into a restaurant and says to the
restaurant owner "give me a good meal or I'm writing a bad review!"
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:32 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| And I apologize, that comment by me was out of line.
I was just trying to make the point that repeating something over and over does
not make it true.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | It is an outcome he deserves, he ordered, paid for, patiently waited for and
then received less than was promised via the transaction.
Not nice, not polite and 100% not extorsion.
There was a politician up here in Canada caught on camera all drunk in a bar
talking about how "if you say it loudly enough over and over people will
believe you", you sound like her.
|
You've clearly learnt a lot from her?
Your probably the type of person that walks into a restaurant and says to the
restaurant owner "give me a good meal or I'm writing a bad review!"
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2023 17:48 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | It is an outcome he deserves, he ordered, paid for, patiently waited for and
then received less than was promised via the transaction.
Not nice, not polite and 100% not extorsion.
There was a politician up here in Canada caught on camera all drunk in a bar
talking about how "if you say it loudly enough over and over people will
believe you", you sound like her.
|
You've clearly learnt a lot from her?
Your probably the type of person that walks into a restaurant and says to the
restaurant owner "give me a good meal or I'm writing a bad review!"
|
That is not what happened though, what happened is that the buyer bought two
meals and only got one and told the waiter to serve him the second meal or he
would leave a negative review. Perfectly fair.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 07:12 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 09:14 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | So it's extortion or blackmail to get a seller to right their wrongs? The
buyer isn't trying to gain anything, they didn't receive parts they paid
for and wanted the situation resolved
Extortion would be leaving a negative or neutral and then messaging and saying
"i'll remove it if you do ______ for me"
|
I don't think there's a huge difference between "I'll remove
my non-positive feedback if you do X" and "I'll leave non-positive
feedback if you don't do X"
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 12:14 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | So it's extortion or blackmail to get a seller to right their wrongs? The
buyer isn't trying to gain anything, they didn't receive parts they paid
for and wanted the situation resolved
|
So just tell the seller how you expect the issue to be resolved in order for
you to remain satisfied and leave feedback based on their resolution!
| | Extortion would be leaving a negative or neutral and then messaging and saying
"i'll remove it if you do ______ for me"
Saying you're going to leave a neutral/negative if the seller doesn't
provide a solution isn't extortion, it's pretty reasonable as they would
be out the items they paid for & would have had a bad experience because of this
|
It is extortion because right from the off you are assuming the seller won't
do right by you unless you use cheap feedback threats therefore maybe give the
seller the benefit of the doubt to resolve on their own accord. Sellers will
not appreciate buyers using that kind of phrasing and so don't be surprised
if after your issue is resolved you end up blocked so continue however you see
fit....
I have already outlined further up this thread the correct way a buyer should
conduct themselves with regards to order issues:-
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1395759
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:37 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 18:47 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, UTLF writes:
Shhhh… 🤫
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 19:27 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | | | It is extortion because right from the off you are assuming the seller won't do right by you unless you use cheap feedback threats therefore maybe give the seller the benefit of the doubt to resolve on their own accord.
|
The seller messed up, the buyer wanted a resolution and stated what they thought
could be 2 options to resolve it. Just because feedback was mentioned doesn't
make it extortion. Sellers aren't children that need to be handheld, things
were laid out plain and simple, and the buyer was being blunt.
Not to mention that, instead of resolving it privately, the seller in question
came running to the forums before replying to the buyer. I don't think the
"benefit of the doubt" matters here when the seller didn't try to
resolve it before making it a public issue. Even if it was a textbook example
of feedback extortion, nothing could be done about it anyways due to it being
sent offsite.
Also, I am not reading the other essay you linked. Sorry.
|
Don't worry as I don't think I have the will to cover replying to your
own points either as its clear that you and a few others here are so out of touch
with the correct code of conduct that I'm just wasting my breathe!
Had you of read my other link you may have learnt something but then I think
you'd rather just continue with using the 'feedback' word as a negotiation
tool
I'm done here!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 19:37 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Arguing with you is almost the same as arguing with my children.
That's what I have learnt.
I will not be apologizing for this comment.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, UTLF writes:
| | | | It is extortion because right from the off you are assuming the seller won't do right by you unless you use cheap feedback threats therefore maybe give the seller the benefit of the doubt to resolve on their own accord.
|
The seller messed up, the buyer wanted a resolution and stated what they thought
could be 2 options to resolve it. Just because feedback was mentioned doesn't
make it extortion. Sellers aren't children that need to be handheld, things
were laid out plain and simple, and the buyer was being blunt.
Not to mention that, instead of resolving it privately, the seller in question
came running to the forums before replying to the buyer. I don't think the
"benefit of the doubt" matters here when the seller didn't try to
resolve it before making it a public issue. Even if it was a textbook example
of feedback extortion, nothing could be done about it anyways due to it being
sent offsite.
Also, I am not reading the other essay you linked. Sorry.
|
Don't worry as I don't think I have the will to cover replying to your
own points either as its clear that you and a few others here are so out of touch
with the correct code of conduct that I'm just wasting my breathe!
Had you of read my other link you may have learnt something but then I think
you'd rather just continue with using the 'feedback' word as a negotiation
tool
I'm done here!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 19:40 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 13:37 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
|
If you don't pay for your order, I will file an NPB.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2023 02:35 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| |
But it is feedback manipulation! in other words blackmail i.e If you don't
do this I will do this?
|
I think it is just cause and effect.
Not the effect I think to admire, but it's basic laws of nature playing here.
One action triggered a possible set of reactions, of which this one occured.
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| | | | | Author: | chetzler | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 17:25 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
Sounds like he may have had one or more bad experiences with previous sellers.
If he was my customer I would calmly explain that there is no need to threaten
a negative since I will always correct any errors. However, I certainly wouldn't
be eager to leave any feedback for him until I saw what he left for me.
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| | | | | | | Author: | bigasbricks | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 17:27 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| I agree with you on that. Thank you
In Feedback, chetzler writes:
| | In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
Sounds like he may have had one or more bad experiences with previous sellers.
If he was my customer I would calmly explain that there is no need to threaten
a negative since I will always correct any errors. However, I certainly wouldn't
be eager to leave any feedback for him until I saw what he left for me.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 17:49 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, chetzler writes:
| | In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
Sounds like he may have had one or more bad experiences with previous sellers.
If he was my customer I would calmly explain that there is no need to threaten
a negative since I will always correct any errors. However, I certainly wouldn't
be eager to leave any feedback for him until I saw what he left for me.
|
yah I can see the perspective of bad experiences with feedback like that. it
seems like an error and he just wants it resolved and is trying to prevent the
seller from ignoring him maybe
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bigasbricks | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 17:51 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Thank you for the input. Other perspectives are good to hear
In Feedback, Nubs_Select writes:
| | In Feedback, chetzler writes:
| | In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
Sounds like he may have had one or more bad experiences with previous sellers.
If he was my customer I would calmly explain that there is no need to threaten
a negative since I will always correct any errors. However, I certainly wouldn't
be eager to leave any feedback for him until I saw what he left for me.
|
yah I can see the perspective of bad experiences with feedback like that. it
seems like an error and he just wants it resolved and is trying to prevent the
seller from ignoring him maybe
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| | | | | | | Author: | edeevo | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 18:09 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, chetzler writes:
| | In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
Sounds like he may have had one or more bad experiences with previous sellers.
If he was my customer I would calmly explain that there is no need to threaten
a negative since I will always correct any errors. However, I certainly wouldn't
be eager to leave any feedback for him until I saw what he left for me.
|
Concur with this; that Buyer's message seems to point to previous bad experiences
with other Sellers who may have either not responded at all, refused to admit
their mistake, or a variety of other bad experiences I have even had with the
occasional Seller here on the site...
If they were one of my Buyers, my preferred action would be to simply communicate
that the issue will be resolved promptly, and ship them the missing items as
soon as I could (and message them the package the tracking info)... 
Life is Good.
~Ed.
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| | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 20:04 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Tit for tat feedback is never a good or true reflection of a transaction.
I know I know, there have been 4 trillion disagreements in here on this topic
but if the buyer made quick payment the seller should have already left positive
feedback.
A little abrupt yes, the buyer intends to get what they paid for as they should.
Ding ding ding
.In Feedback, chetzler writes:
| | In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
Sounds like he may have had one or more bad experiences with previous sellers.
If he was my customer I would calmly explain that there is no need to threaten
a negative since I will always correct any errors. However, I certainly wouldn't
be eager to leave any feedback for him until I saw what he left for me.
|
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| | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 18:55 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
I would not like a buyer writing me in this tone but he might have had bad experiences
elsewhere.
I would explain that is not the best way to communicate without directly blaming
him. Something along the line:
mistakes happen and most buyers know that and inform us about their order's
problems because they trust us we would do our best to resolve the issue and
they believe threatening does not help the transaction to remain smooth and so,
they return to our shop to order more Lego!
and of course, you should send the missing parts if you have them, otherwise
find another way to resolve the issue.
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| | | | | Author: | HC | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 19:47 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| well maybe the tone is a bit direct,
but personaly I prefer this so I have a chance to fix it..
I got 5 neutrals for tiny errors,without any communication or chance to fix it.
and also reaching out to them with an offer to fix it did not help.
just appologize ,send the two missing parts and maybe a small extra to make up
for it.
the mistake in shortage was yours at first...right?
In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
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| | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Feb 24, 2023 20:00 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
It is certainly impolite.
I'm not sure what "feedback manipulation" means.
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| | | | | Author: | Nicolasamico37 | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 05:06 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| I placed lots of orders here. There were a few mistakes, but we are all Humans
!
But NEVER i treathened the seller by letting him/her a neutral or negative feedback.
I always write a courteous message explaining everything:
"Hi,
I received my order today. Everything is perfect, except that the Minifigure
has broken arms / there are 2 Bricks 3005 in Medium Blue missing...
Thank you,
Nicolas"
And hopefully, NEVER i had a negative reply, Thanks to them.
A reply offering a refund or a new shipping with missing items is clearly the
best solution.
I do the same as a seller myself. I treat my clients as I would like to be treated
as a client too.
Sincerely,
Nicolas
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| | | | | Author: | WhiteHorseMatt | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 06:58 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
What would you report to Bricklink? There was an error in the order which needs
to be addressed. At the end of the day it's down to you to sort it.
Mistakes happen, I know they do in my store, but at the end of the day if someone
buys something and doesn't get what they ordered you risk getting bad feedback.
You can of course mitigate this by responding quickly and politely and dealing
generously with them. The feedback is going to reflect how the buyer FEELS about
the transaction, not necessarily what physically happened.
You say you haven't replied yet. I would definitely reply quickly, whatever
action you are going to take.
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| | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 11:13 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
I kind of see this as a reverse NPB. In an NPB, the Buyer is given the option,
ignore this and get a bad feedback, pay and maybe get a positive, or accept the
penalty (NPX) and get a strike. Here, the Buyer is putting it straight forward,
choose your own adventure style.
There was a problem with your order, do you:
A) fix the problem and get positive feedback, or
B) ignore the problem and accept a neutral feedback for a job mostly done.
I get that people see the tone as somewhat rude, but honestly, it reads straight
forward, to the point, not rude in my opinion.
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| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Feb 25, 2023 17:26 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
Jar Jar was the first response that popped into my head, but probably not the
best one. 
I would just respond as if they hadn't been completely rude, get the issue
sorted with them the best I can, wait for the order to purge and then stop list
them.
Do you include any kind of message card with your orders encouraging buyers to
contact you to resolve any issues?
Good luck,
Jen
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 14:22 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
It does not meet the definition as written in the rules here https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=97
Feedback Extortion -
Action: Contact the Help Desk.
Buyers must not demand additional goods, services or refunds over and above what
was agreed in the original transaction with the threat of negative Feedback if
the seller does not comply.
The buyer has not demanded any additional goods, services or refunds over and
above what you agreed to in the original transaction with the threat of negative
feedback. They are asking you to fulfill the original order with the threat of
negative feedback if you do not. That is not feedback extortion according to
the rule above.
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| | | | | Author: | Adjour | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| I'll be different here
when I get a message like this, I don't immediately think extortion (even
though thats technically what it is)
what I read, when I see these is " you messed up, and in the past when sellers
messed up I had to be aggressive with them to get a resolution"
I respond to these messages super sticky sweet and appologetic and the buyer
instantly drops the negative talk.
The buyer is actually just worried you wont resolve the issue.
If you don't have the parts, you should give a little extra in the refund
to cover their new shipping cost, offer to order them for them, or just...ya
know, send them.
.02
Crystal
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:02 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Adjour writes:
| | I'll be different here
when I get a message like this, I don't immediately think extortion (even
though thats technically what it is)
|
Technically it isn't. Bricklink defines Feedback Extortion as when a buyer
uses threats of negative feedback to try to get more than agreed in the original
order. This buyer is trying to get exactly what he ordered, so it does not meet
BL's written definition.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:22 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | In Feedback, Adjour writes:
| | I'll be different here
when I get a message like this, I don't immediately think extortion (even
though thats technically what it is)
|
Technically it isn't. Bricklink defines Feedback Extortion as when a buyer
uses threats of negative feedback to try to get more than agreed in the original
order. This buyer is trying to get exactly what he ordered, so it does not meet
BL's written definition.
|
Feedback extortion is feedback extortion and does not need to be written and
defined in just the same way that every form of bad conduct also does not need
to be written and defined in order to understand that its bad conduct?
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legomalego | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:26 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Extorsion and bad conduct are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Just stating that something is feedback extorsion does not make it so.
In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | In Feedback, Adjour writes:
| | I'll be different here
when I get a message like this, I don't immediately think extortion (even
though thats technically what it is)
|
Technically it isn't. Bricklink defines Feedback Extortion as when a buyer
uses threats of negative feedback to try to get more than agreed in the original
order. This buyer is trying to get exactly what he ordered, so it does not meet
BL's written definition.
|
Feedback extortion is feedback extortion and does not need to be written and
defined in just the same way that every form of bad conduct also does not need
to be written and defined in order to understand that its bad conduct?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:47 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | Extorsion and bad conduct are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Just stating that something is feedback extorsion does not make it so.
|
Indeed. Bricklink already define what Feedback Extortion is in their description
of buying and selling offences, and this does not cross the line. It is a bit
rude but being a bit rude is not a buying or selling offence in the current rules.
If he had asked for three replacement parts when only two were missing, then
mentioning negative feedback is extortion. But they didn't cross that line,
they just want the seller to just send what was ordered to correct their mistake,
or they will leave negative feedback.
The rule here is clear. If the seller complains then BL should ignore the complaint
as it doesn't break their written rule. If they want feedback extortion to
mean any mention of negative feedback, even if it is just to get the seller to
provide what was ordered as in this case, then they need to rewrite the current
rule.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 16:49 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legomalego writes:
| | Extorsion and bad conduct are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Just stating that something is feedback extorsion does not make it so.
|
In the eCommerce world ebay practically determined the term 'Feedback Extortion'
and I can tell you now that even saying something like this to a seller is deemed
as feedback extortion:-
"If you do this I will leave positive feedback"
because it suggest if the seller does not do this they will instead receive negative
feedback.
Feedback has one single purpose which is to be left at the end of a transaction
its not a word that should be thrown around at will!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 26, 2023 17:45 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | "If you do this I will leave positive feedback"
|
But this is exactly the "normal feedback extortion" for ANY order from
a buyer:
"If you ship me in a timely manner the appropriate quality and in exact quantity
what I ordered, then I MAY give you a Positive Feedback"
Again, asking to receive what has been ordered isn't feeback extortion; it's
just fulfilling a buyer's order.
Apart this, mentionning feedback is not the finest and nicest way to communicate,
for sure.
|
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| | | | | Author: | BrickDeals | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2023 00:07 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
The buyer clearly laid out the problem (which you were at fault for). For $4.00
you can fix the problem and keep your reputation. If someone's reputation
isn't worth a few dollars, it speaks volumes about their business.
It also speaks negatively on a seller if they leave retaliatory feedback when
a buyer has a legitimate complaint.
Personally I don't think sellers should be able to leave feedback at all.
(like every other online platform) There are times where the seller deserved
a neutral or negative, but I didn't bother leaving one because of potential
retaliation.
It harms and erodes trust in the marketplace, especially with newer buyers.
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| | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 27, 2023 12:23 | | Subject: | Re: How is this not feedback manipulation? | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, bigasbricks writes:
| | Worthy of reporting to Bricklink? I have not responded to this valued customer
of Bricklink as of yet. These kind of messages never seem to be sent via the
Bricklink platform.
|
It's not very nice, but it's not feedback extortion, per se.
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