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| | | Author: | infinibrix  | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 13:50 | | Subject: | BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 321 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| A buyer just recently claimed their £20 order with us didn’t arrive and so before
refunding them I did what I always do which is search my inbox for their username
to see if there have been any previous communications with the buyer?
It turns out that they previously placed just one other order with us to value
of £30 a year ago which at the time they claimed also didn’t arrive therefore
2 out of 2 orders not arriving is already very suspicious!?
With this in mind I contacted around a dozen sellers that had also recently sold
to the buyer asking if they wouldn’t mind sharing how their own recent transaction
with the buyer went and most didn’t have any problems with the buyer as tracking
was used but of the four sellers I spoke to that only used standard service it
appear 2 out of 4 of those transaction the buyer claimed didn’t arrive but not
only that but they just so happened to be the higher value orders too at £45
and £50. The other two were valued at around £10 with those sellers reporting
no issues!
Bearing in mind I had only contacted sellers going back a few months to November
and the fact that I can only contact sellers who I can see have left feedback
(Many sellers don’t even leave feedback for retaliation reasons) I didn’t have
much hesitation when it came to blocking the buyer from my store after issuing
their refund!
The question is shouldn’t more of us attempt to contact other sellers to build
up a better picture of a buyers activities? Because when we refund a buyer without
question only us and the buyer know exactly what occurred and presumably we then
just leave positive feedback for one another on the basis that lost packages
can sometimes occur!
However at the same time when sellers refund a buyer for lost package I think
Bricklink ought to be keeping a record of how frequently sellers are refunding
a buyer for lost package claims?
The frustrating thing is when I went to refund the buyer I had to choose the
reason for the refund but there is no “Lost in post” option and so I had to select
“Item Missing or Incorrect” which sounds like I’m refunding because of my
own incompetence to get the order right which is not what occurred?
The other issue I have is that despite having already refunded the buyer with
them appearing seemingly happy with the resolution! What if they later notice
I've blocked them and take offence at that and choose to leave negative feedback
out of frustration?
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| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 14:03 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | With this in mind I contacted around a dozen sellers
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In Europe, for a seller to give intel about a buyer or his transaction is forbidden.
But knowing you aren't in Europe anymore 
And I'm not sure BrickLink authorizes this.
Anyway, much energy spent for 20 Pounds 
I'd refund and ban (which is fine and legal if you suspect bad faith).
If more, contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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| | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 14:23 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | With this in mind I contacted around a dozen sellers
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In Europe, for a seller to give intel about a buyer or his transaction is forbidden.
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Then what are you doing on Bricklink then? or don't you leave any feedback
about a transaction?
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Anyway, much energy spent for 20 Pounds
I'd refund and ban (which is fine and legal if you suspect bad faith).
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It's not just about the money its about wanting to understand if we've
just been super unlucky with two items going missing in the post or whether the
buyer routinely carries out these kind of activities and speaking to other seller
helped me to come to the conclusion that putting them on my stop list would be
the wiser option!
| | If more, contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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Now that really would be a lot of energy for £20? either way with the two orders
claimed lost its actually £50!
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | | | If more, contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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Now that really would be a lot of energy for £20? either way with the two orders
claimed lost its actually £50!
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Too bad you didn't stop list or talk at the first one.
Contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 14:51 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | If more, contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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Now that really would be a lot of energy for £20? either way with the two orders
claimed lost its actually £50!
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Too bad you didn't stop list or talk at the first one.
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Well because you usually give the buyer the benefit of the doubt and refund without
question when it only happens the one time! However when it occurs twice you
start to ask questions but maybe I will always collaborate with other sellers
every time a buyer claims a package didn't arrive?
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Contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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I'm not interested in getting anyone in trouble with the law over a few Bricklink
transactions just trying to protect myself and other sellers wherever I can.
All the sellers I spoke to appreciated the contact and will have come to their
own conclusions about the buyer based on our shared experiences!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 14:59 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | If more, contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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Now that really would be a lot of energy for £20? either way with the two orders
claimed lost its actually £50!
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Too bad you didn't stop list or talk at the first one.
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Well because you usually give the buyer the benefit of the doubt and refund without
question when it only happens the one time! However when it occurs twice you
start to ask questions but maybe I will always collaborate with other sellers
every time a buyer claims a package didn't arrive?
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It's not legal, in Europe, you're NOT allowed to do this.
You're not a Detective (AFAIK) or the authorities.
| | | | Contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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I'm not interested in getting anyone in trouble with the law over a few Bricklink
transactions just trying to protect myself and other sellers wherever I can.
All the sellers I spoke to appreciated the contact and will have come to their
own conclusions about the buyer based on our shared experiences!
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Do as you think, but warning, a buyer in good faith (or not) could sue you for
this.
Refund, stop list, and have a good night of sleep.
I already said this in another message, strange...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 15:09 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | In General, infinibrix writes:
| | In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | If more, contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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Now that really would be a lot of energy for £20? either way with the two orders
claimed lost its actually £50!
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Too bad you didn't stop list or talk at the first one.
|
Well because you usually give the buyer the benefit of the doubt and refund without
question when it only happens the one time! However when it occurs twice you
start to ask questions but maybe I will always collaborate with other sellers
every time a buyer claims a package didn't arrive?
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It's not legal, in Europe, you're NOT allowed to do this.
You're not a Detective (AFAIK) or the authorities.
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So overdramatic! either way why should this concern you so much?
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| | | | Contact Police/Justice, it's their job not yours.
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I'm not interested in getting anyone in trouble with the law over a few Bricklink
transactions just trying to protect myself and other sellers wherever I can.
All the sellers I spoke to appreciated the contact and will have come to their
own conclusions about the buyer based on our shared experiences!
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Do as you think, but warning, a buyer in good faith (or not) could sue you for
this.
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Maybe! If I was telling the whole world never to deal with this guy but I'm
not I'm sharing my experience with other sellers who already have their own
experience dealing with the same guy!
With all the negative feedback left on Bricklink there's a lot of people
out there with a lot of sueing to do!
| | Refund, stop list, and have a good night of sleep.
I already said this in another message, strange...
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Sounds like your the one who needs a good nights sleep?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 16:35 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | | | You're not a Detective (AFAIK) or the authorities.
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So overdramatic! either way why should this concern you so much?
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Because I don't think it's right for you to investigate on buyers asking
infos from other sellers.
Not "you" specifically, but as a general meaning.
People have rights regarding their Privacy - www doesn't mean Wild Wild West.
| | Sounds like your the one who needs a good nights sleep?
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LOL - as if I was used to sleep at night.
Did you look at the hours I'm posting?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 17:03 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | You're not a Detective (AFAIK) or the authorities.
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So overdramatic! either way why should this concern you so much?
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Because I don't think it's right for you to investigate on buyers asking
infos from other sellers.
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and I don't think its right for buyers to blatantly rip sellers off but they
still get away with doing it and so who's the big offender here?
Also if your not a problematic buyer yourself then you have nothing to be concerned
about or do you?
Either way how is me asking a seller about their own experience dealing with
a buyer any different to reading what a seller had to say about a buyer in feedback?
Still confused about that one?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 17:27 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | | | Because I don't think it's right for you to investigate on buyers asking
infos from other sellers.
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and I don't think its right for buyers to blatantly rip sellers off but they
still get away with doing it and so who's the big offender here?
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It's not your role.
Contact PayPal, BrickLink administration, Police, authorities.
| | Either way how is me asking a seller about their own experience dealing with
a buyer any different to reading what a seller had to say about a buyer in feedback?
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Feedback is given by both seller and buyer voluntarily.
It's given with consent and knowledge it'll be public data.
Privacy is an important subject nowadays.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | pitz8008 | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 17:36 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | Because I don't think it's right for you to investigate on buyers asking
infos from other sellers.
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and I don't think its right for buyers to blatantly rip sellers off but they
still get away with doing it and so who's the big offender here?
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It's not your role.
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It's his order. His money. His potential negative feedback. I think that
makes it his role to look into if he's being scammed.
| |
Contact PayPal, BrickLink administration, Police, authorities.
| | Either way how is me asking a seller about their own experience dealing with
a buyer any different to reading what a seller had to say about a buyer in feedback?
|
Feedback is given by both seller and buyer voluntarily.
It's given with consent and knowledge it'll be public data.
Privacy is an important subject nowadays.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 19:03 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | Because I don't think it's right for you to investigate on buyers asking
infos from other sellers.
|
and I don't think its right for buyers to blatantly rip sellers off but they
still get away with doing it and so who's the big offender here?
|
It's not your role.
Contact PayPal, BrickLink administration, Police, authorities.
| | Either way how is me asking a seller about their own experience dealing with
a buyer any different to reading what a seller had to say about a buyer in feedback?
|
Feedback is given by both seller and buyer voluntarily.
It's given with consent and knowledge it'll be public data.
Privacy is an important subject nowadays.
|
Yes the right to be able to rip people off without being found out! Privacy is
very important you know How dare I snoop into a buyers dodgy affairs like that!
Next time I see my neighbours shed being raided by thieves I suppose I should
just shrug my shoulders and say to myself I'm not the Authorities, I'm
not the police and leave them to carry on!
Reading many of your questionable posts in the forum I think you use you high
feedback profile as a means of convincing other people that your fabricated arguments
and statements have merit and come from a place of wisdom and logic but this
rarely appears the case!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 19:57 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | [...] I think you use you high feedback profile as a means of convincing other people that your fabricated arguments and statements have merit and come from a place of wisdom and logic [...]
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I could, but you're wrong.
You've posted to have opinions and you don't like the replies, what can
I say?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 04:57 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | [...] I think you use you high feedback profile as a means of convincing other people that your fabricated arguments and statements have merit and come from a place of wisdom and logic [...]
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I could, but you're wrong.
You've posted to have opinions and you don't like the replies, what can
I say?
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That might be because it's the same handful of people who basically live
in the forum and critic and question others in a condescending manor and seem
to analyse every little word that's been said and take great pleasure in
correcting people over the most irrelevant and minor points for no other reason
than because (I assume) they get great pleasure in belittling others in order
to make themselves feel important and I don’t just mean in this thread but generally
Yourself, Yorbrick and SylvainLS are like three peas in a pod and it gets rather
boring after a while but you can have your forum and your circle of followers
and I’ll just continue to pop in every now and again when there’s something worthwhile
to say or read!
You know the funny thing... quite a few people have already messaged me directly
in support and agree with my action and stand point. I guess some would rather
keep their opinion out of the forum and who can blame them?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 09:24 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, infinibrix writes:
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Yourself, Yorbrick and SylvainLS are like three peas in a pod and it gets rather
boring after a while but you can have your forum and your circle of followers
and I’ll just continue to pop in every now and again when there’s something worthwhile
to say or read!
You know the funny thing... quite a few people have already messaged me directly
in support and agree with my action and stand point. I guess some would rather
keep their opinion out of the forum and who can blame them?
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I agree with you, but I don't let anyone keep me from posting. After I started
making good use of the Ignore function the forum is much more pleasant and useful
without the troll posts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BricksOfFaith | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 10:28 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, infinibrix writes:
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You know the funny thing... quite a few people have already messaged me directly
in support and agree with my action and stand point. I guess some would rather
keep their opinion out of the forum and who can blame them?
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Well, my opinion highly lines up with yours! You have every right to ask other
sellers for advice! It’s their choice wether or not to give it to you! Between
you and me, I think 1001 is one of those people who say their package is lost
🤣 jk.
Anyway, don’t let rude trolls keep you off the forum! We are fun here! 😂 (although,
MOST people have me and nubs (the fun ones) blocked already 😂)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 11:20 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, BricksOfFaith writes:
| | In General, infinibrix writes:
| |
You know the funny thing... quite a few people have already messaged me directly
in support and agree with my action and stand point. I guess some would rather
keep their opinion out of the forum and who can blame them?
|
Well, my opinion highly lines up with yours! You have every right to ask other
sellers for advice! It’s their choice wether or not to give it to you! Between
you and me, I think 1001 is one of those people who say their package is lost
🤣 jk.
Anyway, don’t let rude trolls keep you off the forum! We are fun here! 😂 (although,
MOST people have me and nubs (the fun ones) blocked already 😂)
|
 the pizza and mustard war had many casualties
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 01:34 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | Yes the right to be able to rip people off without being found out! Privacy is
very important you know How dare I snoop into a buyers dodgy affairs like that!
Next time I see my neighbours shed being raided by thieves I suppose I should
just shrug my shoulders and say to myself I'm not the Authorities, I'm
not the police and leave them to carry on!
Reading many of your questionable posts in the forum I think you use you high
feedback profile as a means of convincing other people that your fabricated arguments
and statements have merit and come from a place of wisdom and logic but this
rarely appears the case!
|
I think what Sylvain is saying is that it's not sellers' responsibility
to investigate buyers' behavior. If you suspect that a buyer may be committing
fraud, simply report it to the proper authorities (BrickLink, PayPal, etc.) and
let them take care of it.
To extend your analogy, if you see your neighbor's shed being raided by thieves,
you're probably better off calling the police than investigating the thieves.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 01:42 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In General, infinibrix writes:
| | Yes the right to be able to rip people off without being found out! Privacy is
very important you know How dare I snoop into a buyers dodgy affairs like that!
Next time I see my neighbours shed being raided by thieves I suppose I should
just shrug my shoulders and say to myself I'm not the Authorities, I'm
not the police and leave them to carry on!
Reading many of your questionable posts in the forum I think you use you high
feedback profile as a means of convincing other people that your fabricated arguments
and statements have merit and come from a place of wisdom and logic but this
rarely appears the case!
|
I think what Sylvain is saying is that it's not sellers' responsibility
to investigate buyers' behavior. If you suspect that a buyer may be committing
fraud, simply report it to the proper authorities (BrickLink, PayPal, etc.) and
let them take care of it.
To extend your analogy, if you see your neighbor's shed being raided by thieves,
you're probably better off calling the police than investigating the thieves.
|
+1 unless you live in America and your neighbours shed it technically on your
property after their latest reno and you have castle laws
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 04:42 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 87 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| |
I think what Sylvain is saying is that it's not sellers' responsibility
to investigate buyers' behavior. If you suspect that a buyer may be committing
fraud, simply report it to the proper authorities (BrickLink, PayPal, etc.) and
let them take care of it.
|
And how do I report anything to Bricklink if I don’t suspect anything? Without
consulting other sellers I have little to suspect as packages sometimes go missing
right? Besides Bricklink read the forum and I’m sure will contact me if they
feel any action can and should be taken as for paypal try reporting anything
to them without proof of postage and see how far you get with that? These are
simple and basic steps to protect myself and other sellers but people are talking
like I’m some kind of vigilante!
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To extend your analogy, if you see your neighbor's shed being raided by thieves,
you're probably better off calling the police than investigating the thieves.
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Your reading my analogy wrong... as my point was to do something rather than
nothing! Either way personally if I see thieves breaking into my neighbours shed
I’d disturb them from my window and quickly inform my neighbour as by the time
the cops have been informed and arrive the thieves will have a sack full of stuff
and be long gone!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | pitz8008 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 07:02 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| |
I think what Sylvain is saying is that it's not sellers' responsibility
to investigate buyers' behavior. If you suspect that a buyer may be committing
fraud, simply report it to the proper authorities (BrickLink, PayPal, etc.) and
let them take care of it.
|
And how do I report anything to Bricklink if I don’t suspect anything? Without
consulting other sellers I have little to suspect as packages sometimes go missing
right? Besides Bricklink read the forum and I’m sure will contact me if they
feel any action can and should be taken as for paypal try reporting anything
to them without proof of postage and see how far you get with that? These are
simple and basic steps to protect myself and other sellers but people are talking
like I’m some kind of vigilante!
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To extend your analogy, if you see your neighbor's shed being raided by thieves,
you're probably better off calling the police than investigating the thieves.
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Your reading my analogy wrong... as my point was to do something rather than
nothing! Either way personally if I see thieves breaking into my neighbours shed
I’d disturb them from my window and quickly inform my neighbour as by the time
the cops have been informed and arrive the thieves will have a sack full of stuff
and be long gone!
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This is actually the best point of the whole thread. This whole "report it
to the police and authorities" might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Yeah, the police are really going to look into a few Lego transactions worth
30-50 dollars spread all around the world. Talk about just arguing for the sake
of arguing. But let's say Infinibrix did decide to completely waste his time
and report it to the police, what is he suppose to report to the police "I
sent a package to someone and they say they didn't receive it and then I
sent a refund"? You people are kidding me right? The only person who might
get in trouble would be Infinibrix for wasting the police's time. However,
if Infinibrix was insane enough to go to the police, don't you think they
would take his complaint a bit more seriously if he uncovered a pattern of fraud
from this buyer against other people as well. Same goes if you switch out reporting
this buyer to Bricklink instead of the police. I shouldn't be, but I am actually
shocked that anyone would think Infinibrix did the slightest thing wrong here.
And I am stunned that anyone would think the police would do a single thing in
this scenario. In my humble opinion, well done Infinibrix.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stuart9 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 07:15 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| Have to agree, the police don’t want to know about shoplifters unless the goods
they’ve taken exceed £200 in value even with cctv.
They’re not going to want to investigate this type of problem.
In General, pitz8008 writes:
| | In General, infinibrix writes:
| | In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| |
I think what Sylvain is saying is that it's not sellers' responsibility
to investigate buyers' behavior. If you suspect that a buyer may be committing
fraud, simply report it to the proper authorities (BrickLink, PayPal, etc.) and
let them take care of it.
|
And how do I report anything to Bricklink if I don’t suspect anything? Without
consulting other sellers I have little to suspect as packages sometimes go missing
right? Besides Bricklink read the forum and I’m sure will contact me if they
feel any action can and should be taken as for paypal try reporting anything
to them without proof of postage and see how far you get with that? These are
simple and basic steps to protect myself and other sellers but people are talking
like I’m some kind of vigilante!
| |
To extend your analogy, if you see your neighbor's shed being raided by thieves,
you're probably better off calling the police than investigating the thieves.
|
Your reading my analogy wrong... as my point was to do something rather than
nothing! Either way personally if I see thieves breaking into my neighbours shed
I’d disturb them from my window and quickly inform my neighbour as by the time
the cops have been informed and arrive the thieves will have a sack full of stuff
and be long gone!
|
This is actually the best point of the whole thread. This whole "report it
to the police and authorities" might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Yeah, the police are really going to look into a few Lego transactions worth
30-50 dollars spread all around the world. Talk about just arguing for the sake
of arguing. But let's say Infinibrix did decide to completely waste his time
and report it to the police, what is he suppose to report to the police "I
sent a package to someone and they say they didn't receive it and then I
sent a refund"? You people are kidding me right? The only person who might
get in trouble would be Infinibrix for wasting the police's time. However,
if Infinibrix was insane enough to go to the police, don't you think they
would take his complaint a bit more seriously if he uncovered a pattern of fraud
from this buyer against other people as well. Same goes if you switch out reporting
this buyer to Bricklink instead of the police. I shouldn't be, but I am actually
shocked that anyone would think Infinibrix did the slightest thing wrong here.
And I am stunned that anyone would think the police would do a single thing in
this scenario. In my humble opinion, well done Infinibrix.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 13:30 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, pitz8008 writes:
| | In General, infinibrix writes:
| | In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| |
I think what Sylvain is saying is that it's not sellers' responsibility
to investigate buyers' behavior. If you suspect that a buyer may be committing
fraud, simply report it to the proper authorities (BrickLink, PayPal, etc.) and
let them take care of it.
|
And how do I report anything to Bricklink if I don’t suspect anything? Without
consulting other sellers I have little to suspect as packages sometimes go missing
right? Besides Bricklink read the forum and I’m sure will contact me if they
feel any action can and should be taken as for paypal try reporting anything
to them without proof of postage and see how far you get with that? These are
simple and basic steps to protect myself and other sellers but people are talking
like I’m some kind of vigilante!
| |
To extend your analogy, if you see your neighbor's shed being raided by thieves,
you're probably better off calling the police than investigating the thieves.
|
Your reading my analogy wrong... as my point was to do something rather than
nothing! Either way personally if I see thieves breaking into my neighbours shed
I’d disturb them from my window and quickly inform my neighbour as by the time
the cops have been informed and arrive the thieves will have a sack full of stuff
and be long gone!
|
This is actually the best point of the whole thread. This whole "report it
to the police and authorities" might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.
Yeah, the police are really going to look into a few Lego transactions worth
30-50 dollars spread all around the world. Talk about just arguing for the sake
of arguing. But let's say Infinibrix did decide to completely waste his time
and report it to the police, what is he suppose to report to the police "I
sent a package to someone and they say they didn't receive it and then I
sent a refund"? You people are kidding me right? The only person who might
get in trouble would be Infinibrix for wasting the police's time. However,
if Infinibrix was insane enough to go to the police, don't you think they
would take his complaint a bit more seriously if he uncovered a pattern of fraud
from this buyer against other people as well. Same goes if you switch out reporting
this buyer to Bricklink instead of the police. I shouldn't be, but I am actually
shocked that anyone would think Infinibrix did the slightest thing wrong here.
And I am stunned that anyone would think the police would do a single thing in
this scenario. In my humble opinion, well done Infinibrix.
|
Well apparently the police and authorities are more concerned with spending time
looking into my unlawful detective work
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1393766
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 11:40 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | And how do I report anything to Bricklink if I don’t suspect anything? Without
consulting other sellers I have little to suspect as packages sometimes go missing
right?
|
You suspected fraud when the same buyer claimed two different packages as lost.
Simply report it to BrickLink and PayPal and move on. No need to investigate
as they have access to more information than you do.
| | Besides Bricklink read the forum and I’m sure will contact me if they
feel any action can and should be taken as for paypal try reporting anything
to them without proof of postage and see how far you get with that? These are
simple and basic steps to protect myself and other sellers but people are talking
like I’m some kind of vigilante!
Your reading my analogy wrong... as my point was to do something rather than
nothing! Either way personally if I see thieves breaking into my neighbours shed
I’d disturb them from my window and quickly inform my neighbour as by the time
the cops have been informed and arrive the thieves will have a sack full of stuff
and be long gone!
|
No one is saying you should do nothing. You should definitely do something. The
question is what.
You haven't necessarily done anything wrong in this instance. Your initial
post asks whether sellers should take more responsibility for investigating potential
fraud, and the answer is no, that's not your job. Simply report it to the
proper authorities and move on.
You can, however, take actions to protect yourself, such as stoplisting the buyer.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 12:18 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In General, infinibrix writes:
| | And how do I report anything to Bricklink if I don’t suspect anything? Without
consulting other sellers I have little to suspect as packages sometimes go missing
right?
|
You suspected fraud when the same buyer claimed two different packages as lost.
Simply report it to BrickLink and PayPal and move on. No need to investigate
as they have access to more information than you do.
|
Exactly, thank you.
| | | | Your reading my analogy wrong... as my point was to do something rather than
nothing! Either way personally if I see thieves breaking into my neighbours shed
I’d disturb them from my window and quickly inform my neighbour as by the time
the cops have been informed and arrive the thieves will have a sack full of stuff
and be long gone!
|
No one is saying you should do nothing. You should definitely do something. The
question is what.
You haven't necessarily done anything wrong in this instance. Your initial
post asks whether sellers should take more responsibility for investigating potential
fraud, and the answer is no, that's not your job. Simply report it to the
proper authorities and move on.
You can, however, take actions to protect yourself, such as stoplisting the buyer.
|
I 100% confirm this is what I meant also.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 12:36 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In General, infinibrix writes:
| | And how do I report anything to Bricklink if I don’t suspect anything? Without
consulting other sellers I have little to suspect as packages sometimes go missing
right?
|
You suspected fraud when the same buyer claimed two different packages as lost.
|
Yes this time! However two packages lost is always possible and the information
passed on from others sellers helped re-enforce those doubts and for those sellers
who only had one package lost well that gave them a much better insight into
what was actually going on and so why not consult with other sellers even if
one package is claimed missing?
| | Simply report it to BrickLink and PayPal and move on. No need to investigate
as they have access to more information than you do.
|
Well now that you say that... Actually Bricklink DON’T hence if you read my subject
title and the very bottom of my OP I’m basically saying to Bricklink implement
steps (similar to ebay) so that a record is being kept as why a buyer was refunded?
I wasn’t able to tell Bricklink the reason for the refund as the option “Buyer
claims item never arrived” does not exist!? Hence the reason for my title “BL
protect Sellers? or do we need to do our own detective work?”
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 13:02 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | | so why not consult with other sellers even if one package is claimed missing?
|
Because it's illegal in Europe for instance.
Check your local laws about Privacy?
Already said, but you wish not to understand
Fine! Just do what you want and don't ask for advice?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 13:17 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | so why not consult with other sellers even if one package is claimed missing?
|
Because it's illegal in Europe for instance.
Check your local laws about Privacy?
Already said, but you wish not to understand
Fine! Just do what you want and don't ask for advice?
|
I did not ask for your advice you but you continue to impose it upon me? You've
made your point over and over. Don't you have another thread to be trolling?
Besides I've already explained the reason for my post and if you'd read
it properly from top to bottom you'd understand that if Bricklink implements
certain measures people may not even feel the need to do their own detective
work?
On ebay every time a buyer opens an item not received case which results in a
refund ebay keeps a record of that which means a buyer cannot get away with routinely
claiming items as not received as to do so will flag up warnings where action
can be taken against said buyers!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 13:26 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | [...] that if Bricklink implements certain measures [...]
|
BrickLink has measures: it's called Report a member, or Help Desk: send them
facts supporting your doubts.
PayPal the same, even easier and VERY efficient: you can call them.
Maybe it's not because it's the other fault that you HAVE to do this.
Maybe you simply just WANT and enjoy doing this detective work
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 13:57 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | [...] that if Bricklink implements certain measures [...]
|
BrickLink has measures: it's called Report a member, or Help Desk: send them
facts supporting your doubts.
|
Report a member for what? I don't yet know they are acting fraudulently without
speaking to other sellers?
| |
PayPal the same, even easier and VERY efficient: you can call them.
Maybe it's not because it's the other fault that you HAVE to do this.
Maybe you simply just WANT and enjoy doing this detective work
|
When sellers ship in good faith and keep shipping charges as reasonable as possible
for all customers only for one or two buyers to take advantage and risk raising
the shipping charges for all other customers on this platform then yes I get
great satisfaction out of catching those buyers out and sharing my findings!
Fraudulent buyers cost bricklink sellers hundreds of pounds and its very easy
for them to go undetected if they only claim one missing package from every seller
unfortunately for my buyer they slipped up and even though their two orders were
placed a year apart my gmail contains every communication with every buyer indefinitely!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 14:24 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 14:30 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, UTLF writes:
| | I haven't been on the forums as long as other people, but I quickly learned
that 1001 is quite possibly sitting on the tallest horse in the world, which
would explain why trying to get a point across to him is nearly impossible -
he just can't hear you from up there
|
That was a fun image
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 14:27 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | | | BrickLink has measures: it's called Report a member, or Help Desk: send them
facts supporting your doubts.
|
Report a member for what? I don't yet know they are acting fraudulently without
speaking to other sellers?
|
But you've refunded twice this person if I remember well what you said.
Did you check the shipping addresses, were they the same?
Report to BrickLink if this is suspicious to your eyes; and I'd agree it
starts to be suspicious.
Place a phone call to PayPal.
About fraudulent buyers; I rarely encountered any, maybe a couple.
But I encounter fraudulent or say (at the best) incapable, limited, rude, erroneous
sellers almost every month.
And I'm very sad some newbie buyers have business with them.
Those buyers will run away from BrickLink because you rarely stay if the first
experience is negative.
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| | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 14:43 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | The question is shouldn’t more of us attempt to contact other sellers to build
up a better picture of a buyers activities? Because when we refund a buyer without
question only us and the buyer know exactly what occurred and presumably we then
just leave positive feedback for one another on the basis that lost packages
can sometimes occur!
|
You can pass on your findings to BrickLink or the police but it's up to them
whether or not to take action against the buyer.
I used to work for a bank and often times we would not even bother to investigate
alleged fraud for values as small as £20 or £30.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 14:52 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | | I used to work for a bank and often times we would not even bother to investigate
alleged fraud for values as small as £20 or £30.
|
Please PM me your Bank?
I'll say it's you who said this.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 01:30 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | Please PM me your Bank?
I'll say it's you who said this.
|
Indeed, I wasn't sure whether to post this or not. But my point is that you
can't compel law enforcement to take action. They made decide £20 or £30
or even £50 is simply not worth their time.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 06:22 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | Please PM me your Bank?
I'll say it's you who said this.
|
Indeed, I wasn't sure whether to post this or not. But my point is that you
can't compel law enforcement to take action. They made decide £20 or £30
or even £50 is simply not worth their time.
|
I think if it were a pattern they might take interest!
|
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| | | | | Author: | Crafteewon | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2023 15:11 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | A buyer just recently claimed their £20 order with us didn’t arrive and so before
refunding them I did what I always do which is search my inbox for their username
to see if there have been any previous communications with the buyer?
It turns out that they previously placed just one other order with us to value
of £30 a year ago which at the time they claimed also didn’t arrive therefore
2 out of 2 orders not arriving is already very suspicious!?
With this in mind I contacted around a dozen sellers that had also recently sold
to the buyer asking if they wouldn’t mind sharing how their own recent transaction
with the buyer went and most didn’t have any problems with the buyer as tracking
was used but of the four sellers I spoke to that only used standard service it
appear 2 out of 4 of those transaction the buyer claimed didn’t arrive but not
only that but they just so happened to be the higher value orders too at £45
and £50. The other two were valued at around £10 with those sellers reporting
no issues!
Bearing in mind I had only contacted sellers going back a few months to November
and the fact that I can only contact sellers who I can see have left feedback
(Many sellers don’t even leave feedback for retaliation reasons) I didn’t have
much hesitation when it came to blocking the buyer from my store after issuing
their refund!
The question is shouldn’t more of us attempt to contact other sellers to build
up a better picture of a buyers activities? Because when we refund a buyer without
question only us and the buyer know exactly what occurred and presumably we then
just leave positive feedback for one another on the basis that lost packages
can sometimes occur!
However at the same time when sellers refund a buyer for lost package I think
Bricklink ought to be keeping a record of how frequently sellers are refunding
a buyer for lost package claims?
The frustrating thing is when I went to refund the buyer I had to choose the
reason for the refund but there is no “Lost in post” option and so I had to select
“Item Missing or Incorrect” which sounds like I’m refunding because of my
own incompetence to get the order right which is not what occurred?
The other issue I have is that despite having already refunded the buyer with
them appearing seemingly happy with the resolution! What if they later notice
I've blocked them and take offence at that and choose to leave negative feedback
out of frustration?
|
I agree that there should be some form of tracking.
Maybe as simple as positive feedback saying. “Package lost, full refund provided”
Then at least other sellers could look back and see if there is a trend.
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| | | | | Author: | antant7 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 07:36 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | However at the same time when sellers refund a buyer for lost package I think
Bricklink ought to be keeping a record of how frequently sellers are refunding
a buyer for lost package claims?
|
Some other places *cough cough* do, allong with a couple of other stats, and
it's visible right there on the order page. If I understand correctly, the
count is maintained automatically when a refund for the order is issued.
It would indeed be a useful statistic to have, not for anything drastic like
stop-listing people but just as a guide on whether to send an order tracked or
not.
|
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| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 12:07 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2023 12:52 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, popsicle writes:
| | Given the facts and timelines that you layout are accurate, this is clearly a
predatory individual. You can choose to let yourself be prey as too many do and
why they're given room to operate, or you can take action as you've attempted.
I’ve felt for years that e-commerce sites in general, should be taking more of
an active role in protecting their vendors. To begin at least to realize the
true value of "good vendors" and perhaps redirect more of those resources
used in protecting buyers, into better seller protections. Whether they ever
fully do or not, it’s a good idea not to be reliant on “big brother” and to just
get it done, as you have.
Btw, I often recognize the thinking, attitude and positions you express here
in the forum. You’re fearless, willing to do the work and smart. The makings
of an excellent business partner
-popsicle
|
Thanks Cory! It makes me question why some here take such issue! Something to
hide maybe?
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| | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 19, 2023 09:01 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | General | |
|
| In General, infinibrix writes:
| | A buyer just recently claimed their £20 order with us didn’t arrive and so before
refunding them I did what I always do which is search my inbox for their username
to see if there have been any previous communications with the buyer?
It turns out that they previously placed just one other order with us to value
of £30 a year ago which at the time they claimed also didn’t arrive therefore
2 out of 2 orders not arriving is already very suspicious!?
With this in mind I contacted around a dozen sellers that had also recently sold
to the buyer asking if they wouldn’t mind sharing how their own recent transaction
with the buyer went and most didn’t have any problems with the buyer as tracking
was used but of the four sellers I spoke to that only used standard service it
appear 2 out of 4 of those transaction the buyer claimed didn’t arrive but not
only that but they just so happened to be the higher value orders too at £45
and £50. The other two were valued at around £10 with those sellers reporting
no issues!
Bearing in mind I had only contacted sellers going back a few months to November
and the fact that I can only contact sellers who I can see have left feedback
(Many sellers don’t even leave feedback for retaliation reasons) I didn’t have
much hesitation when it came to blocking the buyer from my store after issuing
their refund!
The question is shouldn’t more of us attempt to contact other sellers to build
up a better picture of a buyers activities? Because when we refund a buyer without
question only us and the buyer know exactly what occurred and presumably we then
just leave positive feedback for one another on the basis that lost packages
can sometimes occur!
However at the same time when sellers refund a buyer for lost package I think
Bricklink ought to be keeping a record of how frequently sellers are refunding
a buyer for lost package claims?
The frustrating thing is when I went to refund the buyer I had to choose the
reason for the refund but there is no “Lost in post” option and so I had to select
“Item Missing or Incorrect” which sounds like I’m refunding because of my
own incompetence to get the order right which is not what occurred?
The other issue I have is that despite having already refunded the buyer with
them appearing seemingly happy with the resolution! What if they later notice
I've blocked them and take offence at that and choose to leave negative feedback
out of frustration?
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Well another seller has since replied making it 5 out of 7 orders that the buyer
claims didn't arrive when the seller used standard service!
If Bricklink is interested in the buyers details and investigating them further
feel free to contact me?
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| | | | | | | Author: | MyTwoPence | | Posted: | Feb 20, 2023 18:08 | | Subject: | Re: BL Protect Sellers? or do own Detective Work? | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | Well another seller has since replied making it 5 out of 7 orders that the buyer
claims didn't arrive when the seller used standard service!
If Bricklink is interested in the buyers details and investigating them further
feel free to contact me?
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Well. That was a fun read. Nearly finished my popcorn too.
I reckon the only thing we sellers can do in this situation is leave appropriate
feedback. Something like: "so sO SO sooooRRRyy the package didn't make
it to you. Full refund made"
Says it all, and to all the right people. Short n Sweet too. A little like my
popcorn.
I'd rather that, than have the Privacy Police knocking
Why didn't you phrase it like that in the first place 1001? Could have saved
the bickering 
Have a nice evening folks. Time for dreamland here.
... just MyTwoPence
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United Kingdom, England
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
USA, Illinois
Canada, Ontario
Netherlands, Utrecht
