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| | | Author: | MadAboutBricks  | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 09:31 | | Subject: | Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 215 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds 
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| | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 09:35 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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Sorry to say but it’s clearly in PayPal’s terms: you need to prove the package
was received.
I guess your misadventure is how you learn that insurance & tracking is for the
seller.
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| | | | | | | Author: | kyheng | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 09:40 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| My take on this, using normal mail without tracking is a risk most of the time,
but buyer should have give some extra time. Usually if I'm buying from overseas,
I give seller 30 days.
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| | | | | | | Author: | MadAboutBricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 10:04 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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Sorry to say but it’s clearly in PayPal’s terms: you need to prove the package
was received.
I guess your misadventure is how you learn that insurance & tracking is for the
seller.
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Understood , but willingness to pay for this by the buyer suggests that tracking
is required at sellers expense ? Our terms on BL also states that no tracking
/ insurance is at buyers risk, but guess this serves no purpose where Paypal
comes into it
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 10:13 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | Understood , but willingness to pay for this by the buyer suggests that tracking
is required at sellers expense ?
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Tracking isn't required at seller's expense, but the seller takes
on the risk of not being able to prove that the order was sent. For an international
package I think tracking is a must.
| | Our terms on BL also states that no tracking
/ insurance is at buyers risk, but guess this serves no purpose where Paypal
comes into it
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Right, where your terms and theirs come into conflict, their terms win.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 10:23 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | Understood , but willingness to pay for this by the buyer suggests that tracking
is required at sellers expense ?
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Tracking isn't required at seller's expense, but the seller takes
on the risk of not being able to prove that the order was sent. For an international
package I think tracking is a must.
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Exactly.
Tracking is for the seller to be able to defend their case with PayPal.
Insurance is for the seller because the seller is the contractor and is the one
being refunded (or not) by the postal services when a package is lost.
For the insurance part, some sellers also use third-party insurers or self-insure
(add a bit to your prices and put it in an ‘in case of trouble’ line).
No one and nothing said the seller can’t make the buyers pay for tracking / insurance.
It sure raises your prices but then, as you just experienced, the risks are on
you if you don’t.
| | | | Our terms on BL also states that no tracking
/ insurance is at buyers risk, but guess this serves no purpose where Paypal
comes into it
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Right, where your terms and theirs come into conflict, their terms win.
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AFAIK, those terms also come into conflict with UK law (that’s EU law that I’ve
not heard to have been repelled after Brexit).
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| | | | | Author: | rab1234 | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 10:36 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| This is why I always ship via USPS first class which has tracking included (it's
definitely cheaper in the US). I've had a few cases opened against me where
buyers claimed they never received packages, but tracking showed delivered.
Paypay always quickly decides in my favor.
In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 10:41 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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You need to challenge this via Paypal. Don't accept their first response.
It's ridiculous. Three weeks is a normal delivery time for international
packages.
Jen
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| | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 15:07 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, jennnifer writes:
| | In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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You need to challenge this via Paypal. Don't accept their first response.
It's ridiculous. Three weeks is a normal delivery time for international
packages.
Jen
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This
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| | | | | Author: | Pippysblocks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 10:56 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| I'm not sure how this is correct, I would contact Paypal again as 4 days
isn't long enough for the package to arrive UK to USA, double check. I've
given up with international post, too much going missing and customer unwillingness
to pay tracked (which is to expensive for me to cover within profit margin).
In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 11:16 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Pippysblocks writes:
| | I'm not sure how this is correct, I would contact Paypal again as 4 days
isn't long enough for the package to arrive UK to USA, double check. I've
given up with international post, too much going missing and customer unwillingness
to pay tracked (which is to expensive for me to cover within profit margin).
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Same here. Too many people expecting an item to be delivered internationally
within a few days and also expecting (expensive) items to be posted at the cheapest
rates without tracking.
At least within the UK we can rely on a proof of posting to get a refund from
RM if the buyer claims non-receipt.
It wouldn't be so bad if you could allow small cheap purchases but block
expensive set purchases, but that isn't possible.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Pippysblocks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 12:06 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Exactly, I've had people even message to ask me to send cheapest and they
will take the risk!! not how it works. Also small parcel standard non signed
has tracking too which I didn't realise until recently. It's helped saved
me having to refund on two occasions recently.
In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | In Selling, Pippysblocks writes:
| | I'm not sure how this is correct, I would contact Paypal again as 4 days
isn't long enough for the package to arrive UK to USA, double check. I've
given up with international post, too much going missing and customer unwillingness
to pay tracked (which is to expensive for me to cover within profit margin).
|
Same here. Too many people expecting an item to be delivered internationally
within a few days and also expecting (expensive) items to be posted at the cheapest
rates without tracking.
At least within the UK we can rely on a proof of posting to get a refund from
RM if the buyer claims non-receipt.
It wouldn't be so bad if you could allow small cheap purchases but block
expensive set purchases, but that isn't possible.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | MadAboutBricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 12:29 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Pippysblocks writes:
| | Exactly, I've had people even message to ask me to send cheapest and they
will take the risk!! not how it works. Also small parcel standard non signed
has tracking too which I didn't realise until recently. It's helped saved
me having to refund on two occasions recently.
In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | In Selling, Pippysblocks writes:
| | I'm not sure how this is correct, I would contact Paypal again as 4 days
isn't long enough for the package to arrive UK to USA, double check. I've
given up with international post, too much going missing and customer unwillingness
to pay tracked (which is to expensive for me to cover within profit margin).
|
Same here. Too many people expecting an item to be delivered internationally
within a few days and also expecting (expensive) items to be posted at the cheapest
rates without tracking.
At least within the UK we can rely on a proof of posting to get a refund from
RM if the buyer claims non-receipt.
It wouldn't be so bad if you could allow small cheap purchases but block
expensive set purchases, but that isn't possible.
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Also small parcel standard non signed
has tracking too , please share Pippysblocks maybe I am missing something
Also and as Royal Mail are so kind to offer free colection, does this count as
sufficient for proof of postage ?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Pippysblocks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 13:38 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Okay, I use click and drop and it works with this, all small parcels I purchase
have a ref number under where it says 1st / 2nd class. If you put that in the
track and trace system it will show if delivered, posties scan small parcels.
Someone told me it works for all click and drop items but I haven't worked
that out yet.
I would imagine the collection services does too as I am sure they will scan
on collection. I haven't tried it yet.
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Also small parcel standard non signed
has tracking too , please share Pippysblocks maybe I am missing something
Also and as Royal Mail are so kind to offer free colection, does this count as
sufficient for proof of postage ?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | MadAboutBricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:46 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Pippysblocks writes:
| | Okay, I use click and drop and it works with this, all small parcels I purchase
have a ref number under where it says 1st / 2nd class. If you put that in the
track and trace system it will show if delivered, posties scan small parcels.
Someone told me it works for all click and drop items but I haven't worked
that out yet.
I would imagine the collection services does too as I am sure they will scan
on collection. I haven't tried it yet.
| |
Also small parcel standard non signed
has tracking too , please share Pippysblocks maybe I am missing something
Also and as Royal Mail are so kind to offer free colection, does this count as
sufficient for proof of postage ?
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Thank you 😊
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| | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 11:18 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| You responded too early. Take full advantage of all the alloted time PayPal gives
you to respond. The package might show up before then, unless of course this
is buyer fraud.
Also, a seller automatically loses if they cannot provide tracking.
In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 11:24 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, zorbanj writes:
| | You responded too early. Take full advantage of all the alloted time PayPal gives
you to respond. The package might show up before then, unless of course this
is buyer fraud.
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If the buyer is complaining to PayPal within four days, I imagine it is fraud
and the buyer knows what they are doing. Four days is quite fast for domestic,
let alone international.
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| | | | | Author: | steelwoolghandi | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 15:18 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, MadAboutBricks writes:
| | I don't post here often but a quick message of an experience we just had
- Sale to a USA buyer shipping from UK - no tracking or insurance requested
After 4 days we received a PayPal case opened for non receipt of goods (yes 4
days UK to USA International Airmail)
I responded to PayPal and they found in favor of the buyer, so I am down 1 minifigure
and also the sale proceeds
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I would like to know who the buyer was, it is a clear case of Fraud or an under
age buyer. If they put a case out on you in just 4 days then they are someone
I don't want purchasing from me.
If we had more call outs on bad buyers we might have less of this type of abuse
going on. As far as I am concerned this is intentional theft of product.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 15:23 | | Subject: | Re: Risks to seller with PayPal | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Perhaps we should ask bricklink to have an option for a seller only area to share
stop lists so other sellers can look over them and the reasons and decide if
they also want to block the buyer (yes I know this could lead to the possibility
of some false issues in blocking buyers but in theory that could also happen
with forum reports)
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United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Malaysia, Negeri Sembilan
USA, New Jersey
Ireland, Meath
Canada, Ontario