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| | | Author: | LeeGo73  | | Posted: | Jun 13, 2022 15:55 | | Subject: | Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 189 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Hi,
A question for the more experienced sellers here.
I received an order from US from a first time buyer. Communication and payment
where quick and after some small corrections the bricklink shipping address is
now the same as the paypal address.
I'm I right to assume I'm eligible for paypal seller protection if I
ship with tracking and delivery confirmation?
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| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jun 13, 2022 16:27 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | I received an order from US from a first time buyer. Communication and payment
where quick and after some small corrections the bricklink shipping address is
now the same as the paypal address.
I'm I right to assume I'm eligible for paypal seller protection if I
ship with tracking and delivery confirmation?
|
Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Shiny_Stuff | | Posted: | Jun 13, 2022 18:16 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I received an order from US from a first time buyer. Communication and payment
where quick and after some small corrections the bricklink shipping address is
now the same as the paypal address.
I'm I right to assume I'm eligible for paypal seller protection if I
ship with tracking and delivery confirmation?
|
Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
|
That seller protection is a myth might be true some/most of the time. I have
had my Paypal account since 1999 and several years ago on two occasions I was
able to prove and WIN my case and have Paypal side with me and give me back my
money (reverse the payment reversal).
As I recall, it was relatively easy and painless, but the rest of the details
are gone from my memory. I did not even have to plead or sing to the people
at Paypal
♫♫ Pay me, Pay me, Pay me my money down. Pay me or go to jail. Pay me my money
down. ♫♫
____
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jun 13, 2022 20:02 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | | | Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
|
That seller protection is a myth might be true some/most of the time. I have
had my Paypal account since 1999 and several years ago on two occasions I was
able to prove and WIN my case and have Paypal side with me and give me back my
money (reverse the payment reversal).
|
Agree, almost same, almost zero problem.
But if you don't have an account this old with plenty successful transaction
(and all cases gracefully resolved), and if you've no luck, like a buyer
saying "It's not my signature", or if it's not signed (Covid, some code
not given, whatever procedure...) then you may be less lucky.
In short what I meant is: PayPal basically protects the buyer, always, and if
you're cleaner than the cleanest they may help you, in some cases, the seller.
I don't count on this "Seller protection" 
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 10:39 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 10:40 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
|
That seller protection is a myth might be true some/most of the time. I have
had my Paypal account since 1999 and several years ago on two occasions I was
able to prove and WIN my case and have Paypal side with me and give me back my
money (reverse the payment reversal).
|
Agree, almost same, almost zero problem.
But if you don't have an account this old with plenty successful transaction
(and all cases gracefully resolved), and if you've no luck, like a buyer
saying "It's not my signature", or if it's not signed (Covid, some code
not given, whatever procedure...) then you may be less lucky.
In short what I meant is: PayPal basically protects the buyer, always, and if
you're cleaner than the cleanest they may help you, in some cases, the seller.
I don't count on this "Seller protection"
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So what do you count on? if you don't count on seller protection.
tracking? taking videos at the post office when you ship?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 10:42 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Dinosaur writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | I don't count on this "Seller protection"
|
So what do you count on? if you don't count on seller protection.
tracking? taking videos at the post office when you ship?
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Trust
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:11 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Selling, Dinosaur writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | I don't count on this "Seller protection"
|
So what do you count on? if you don't count on seller protection.
tracking? taking videos at the post office when you ship?
|
Trust
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if there was only trust, nobody would sell large or expensive sets on the web
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:32 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Dinosaur writes:
| | In Selling, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Selling, Dinosaur writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | I don't count on this "Seller protection"
|
So what do you count on? if you don't count on seller protection.
tracking? taking videos at the post office when you ship?
|
Trust
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if there was only trust, nobody would sell large or expensive sets on the web
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If trust was strong they would. In the early days of ebay, I thought very little
of sending $100 cash in the mail to pay for items from a seller on the other
side of the world. I wouldn't do it these days though.
Trust comes down to feedback and store history. Would I trust a seller with (0)
feedback to post a $500 set if I paid by bank transfer? No. Would I trust a seller
that has been here 10 years, 100% feedback over a few thousand transactions?
Yes.
And as a seller it is cost vs risk minimisation. Is it worth losing many (lower
value) orders because you insist on insuring them versus having to refund maybe
1 in 100 from a dodgy buyer? Of course, the higher the value, the more likely
tracking and/or insurance will be needed.
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 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:32 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Dinosaur writes:
| | In Selling, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Selling, Dinosaur writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | I don't count on this "Seller protection"
|
So what do you count on? if you don't count on seller protection.
tracking? taking videos at the post office when you ship?
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Trust
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if there was no trust, nobody would sell large or expensive sets on the web
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FTFY
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:36 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:37 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 12:12 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | qwertyboy | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 14:11 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Please refrain from swearing, even if it is only by using abbreviations.
Niek.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2022 02:47 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2022 02:48 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:25 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | | | I don't count on this "Seller protection"
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So what do you count on? if you don't count on seller protection.
tracking? taking videos at the post office when you ship?
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Profit and loss.
Say you'll lose 100$ per year in "various" lost shipments, and count this
price in your pricing - just like telephone, Internet, accounting, buying cartons,
etc - those are charges.
If you're ready, then PayPal's decision isn't a problem, and yes,
sometimes a good surprise, but you don't count on it.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brickitty | | Posted: | Jun 13, 2022 18:31 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I received an order from US from a first time buyer. Communication and payment
where quick and after some small corrections the bricklink shipping address is
now the same as the paypal address.
I'm I right to assume I'm eligible for paypal seller protection if I
ship with tracking and delivery confirmation?
|
Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
|
Huh? Genuinely, what are you talking about? Over 20 years of selling here and
on eBay, I've had a handful of people try to scam me and also a handful of
genuinely lost packages. Every time I provided the tracking number, I had the
case decided in my favor (for the attempted scams) or decided for the buyer but
PayPal covered the entire amount that was refunded (the lost packages where the
tracking showed they never arrived). Usually the case was decided in my favor
with no delay, often the same day. Never needed a signature/proof of delivery.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jun 13, 2022 20:10 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Brickitty writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I received an order from US from a first time buyer. Communication and payment
where quick and after some small corrections the bricklink shipping address is
now the same as the paypal address.
I'm I right to assume I'm eligible for paypal seller protection if I
ship with tracking and delivery confirmation?
|
Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
|
Huh? Genuinely, what are you talking about? Over 20 years of selling here [snip]
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See my other reply.
Here in France/EU maybe, proof of reception is required, in PayPal Terms
and for any resolution - they simply ignore you if you've a tracking.
And even this proof can be refuted by the buyer - even sometimes genuinely.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:17 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Selling, Brickitty writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I received an order from US from a first time buyer. Communication and payment
where quick and after some small corrections the bricklink shipping address is
now the same as the paypal address.
I'm I right to assume I'm eligible for paypal seller protection if I
ship with tracking and delivery confirmation?
|
Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
|
Huh? Genuinely, what are you talking about? Over 20 years of selling here [snip]
|
See my other reply.
Here in France/EU maybe, proof of reception is required, in PayPal Terms
and for any resolution - they simply ignore you if you've a tracking.
And even this proof can be refuted by the buyer - even sometimes genuinely.
|
I once had a buyer start a Paypal claim which I disputed because the tracking
showed that the package where at the buyers post office. As soon as the claim
were decided in the buyers favour, he went to his post office and picked up the
package. I then filed a complaint to Paypal, and they accepted the complaint,
but did not return the payment. Instead they said: You may now ask the buyer
to resend the payment...
Another time I had a very suspicious claim from a buyer, and called Paypal to
let them know that I believed it was a deliberate fraud attempt. The Paypal representative
checked the case and confirmed that they had already had multiple fraud reports
on the same person, and that they had closed his account for further use. But
when I asked if this meant that they would decide in my favour, they claimed
that they were not allowed to do that, unless I could prove that it had been
delivered.
In both cases I ended up with lost money and negative feedback.
But given that I have been on Bricklink for 22 years, there have been very few
cases like this. Most buyers are honest.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:27 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | | | And even this proof can be refuted by the buyer - even sometimes genuinely.
|
I once had a buyer start a Paypal claim which I disputed because the tracking
showed that the package where at the buyers post office. As soon as the claim
were decided in the buyers favour, he went to his post office and picked up the
package. I then filed a complaint to Paypal, and they accepted the complaint,
but did not return the payment. Instead they said: You may now ask the buyer
to resend the payment...
Another time I had a very suspicious claim from a buyer, and called Paypal to
let them know that I believed it was a deliberate fraud attempt. The Paypal representative
checked the case and confirmed that they had already had multiple fraud reports
on the same person, and that they had closed his account for further use. But
when I asked if this meant that they would decide in my favour, they claimed
that they were not allowed to do that, unless I could prove that it had been
delivered.
In both cases I ended up with lost money and negative feedback.
But given that I have been on Bricklink for 22 years, there have been very few
cases like this. Most buyers are honest.
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^ all this, exactly.
Thank you Helge - but sorry for you for those bad experiences.
Wishing you the best.
Sylvain
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:31 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, helge writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Selling, Brickitty writes:
| | In Selling, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I received an order from US from a first time buyer. Communication and payment
where quick and after some small corrections the bricklink shipping address is
now the same as the paypal address.
I'm I right to assume I'm eligible for paypal seller protection if I
ship with tracking and delivery confirmation?
|
Yes, you're safer with proof of delivery - tracking isn't enough.
But that may not be enough anyway: Seller protection is just a myth.
|
Huh? Genuinely, what are you talking about? Over 20 years of selling here [snip]
|
See my other reply.
Here in France/EU maybe, proof of reception is required, in PayPal Terms
and for any resolution - they simply ignore you if you've a tracking.
And even this proof can be refuted by the buyer - even sometimes genuinely.
|
I once had a buyer start a Paypal claim which I disputed because the tracking
showed that the package where at the buyers post office. As soon as the claim
were decided in the buyers favour, he went to his post office and picked up the
package. I then filed a complaint to Paypal, and they accepted the complaint,
but did not return the payment. Instead they said: You may now ask the buyer
to resend the payment...
Another time I had a very suspicious claim from a buyer, and called Paypal to
let them know that I believed it was a deliberate fraud attempt. The Paypal representative
checked the case and confirmed that they had already had multiple fraud reports
on the same person, and that they had closed his account for further use. But
when I asked if this meant that they would decide in my favour, they claimed
that they were not allowed to do that, unless I could prove that it had been
delivered.
In both cases I ended up with lost money and negative feedback.
But given that I have been on Bricklink for 22 years, there have been very few
cases like this. Most buyers are honest.
|
It's really hard to be hundred percent fair between buyers and sellers, even
in today's AI world. I bought from a big grocery store online from time to
time but almost always, some of their products arrived with damaged package,
you know, that's food, that's unacceptable, I was always honest and filed
exchange, but their policy and flow did not have exchange but refund only, after
a few refunds, they closed my account. Was it fair to buyers?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 11:48 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | It's really hard to be hundred percent fair between buyers and sellers, even
in today's AI world. I bought from a big grocery store online from time to
time but almost always, some of their products arrived with damaged package,
you know, that's food, that's unacceptable, I was always honest and filed
exchange, but their policy and flow did not have exchange but refund only, after
a few refunds, they closed my account. Was it fair to buyers?
|
Why would you keep buying from somewhere if almost always products were damaged
enough for you to claim a refund.
What they will do is compare you to other buyers' behaviour. You are just
one customer in 1000s and they look for outliers in claims. If you are putting
in significantly more claims than other buyers for the same number of orders,
then you are (to them) a bad customer and so they will ban you. If other customers'
orders are not being damaged but almost always your ones are, then they see that
either you are much more sensitive about condition or you are claiming unfairly.
Is it fair on you for them to ban you, or is it fair on them for you to keep
claiming refunds when other buyers don't.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dinosaur | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 12:14 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | It's really hard to be hundred percent fair between buyers and sellers, even
in today's AI world. I bought from a big grocery store online from time to
time but almost always, some of their products arrived with damaged package,
you know, that's food, that's unacceptable, I was always honest and filed
exchange, but their policy and flow did not have exchange but refund only, after
a few refunds, they closed my account. Was it fair to buyers?
|
Why would you keep buying from somewhere if almost always products were damaged
enough for you to claim a refund.
What they will do is compare you to other buyers' behaviour. You are just
one customer in 1000s and they look for outliers in claims. If you are putting
in significantly more claims than other buyers for the same number of orders,
then you are (to them) a bad customer and so they will ban you. If other customers'
orders are not being damaged but almost always your ones are, then they see that
either you are much more sensitive about condition or you are claiming unfairly.
Is it fair on you for them to ban you, or is it fair on them for you to keep
claiming refunds when other buyers don't.
|
If they had put their effort in the first place to ensure that their products
were intact and not treated rudely. What you have said would be valid.
But the reality is they have this serious problem but they don't investigate
and fix it but resort to closing accounts of customers they don't like, in
the long run, there will be a lot more accounts being closed and other giants
replace them, I am very confident.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 12:28 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | If they had put their effort in the first place to ensure that their products
were intact and not treated rudely. What you have said would be valid.
But the reality is they have this serious problem but they don't investigate
and fix it but resort to closing accounts of customers they don't like, in
the long run, there will be a lot more accounts being closed and other giants
replace them, I am very confident.
|
If it is not a serious issue for all the other customers though, then you are
seen as the problem.
That is why I said they look for outliers in customer bahviour. If many people
or everyone was complaining about damaged deliveries then they have a supply
chain problem to look into and improve, then the number of necessary refunds
would drop. Whereas if just one person keeps complaining when others do not,
then they have identified where the problem is and the way to reduce the number
of refunds necessary is to stop you placing further orders.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 16:30 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2022 12:19 | | Subject: | Re: Paypal sellers protection | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Brickitty writes:
| | Never needed a signature/proof of delivery.
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For modest sized orders, you are correct. For exceptionally high-value orders,
PP wants to see that someone physically took delivery and signed for it.
Nita Rae
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Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
USA, New York
Germany, Berlin
United Kingdom, England
Canada, Alberta
Norway
