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| | | Author: | C0lsanders_  | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 20:07 | | Subject: | Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 225 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| I have a package I sent earlier this month, but hasn't arrived (domestic
US). The customer has not brought it up yet, but I am wondering about issuing
a full refund.
My question is why would I be responsible for a lost item? I read on here all
the time that the seller is responsible, but why? I contracted with a company
to deliver an item from A to B, and paid them in full. If they fail in their
paid job, why on Earth would I be responsible (fiscally or otherwise)? If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
Thanks,
Miles (C0lsanders_)
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| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 20:12 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| | | I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
|
I gave you 20$, you received them.
You sent me 20$ of goods, I didn't receive them.
The contract is money against goods.
It's not a Loto ticket: "pay 20$ and have 99.87% chance to get goods".
Whatever your defense could be, you did NOT respected the contract.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 20:34 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
|
I gave you 20$, you received them.
You sent me 20$ of goods, I didn't receive them.
The contract is money against goods.
It's not a Loto ticket: "pay 20$ and have 99.87% chance to get goods".
Whatever your defense could be, you did NOT respected the contract.
|
More accurately: you didn’t (couldn’t) respect the contract because _your_ subcontractor
(courrier / postal services) did not respect the contract you had with them.
Conclusion: turn against the courrier / postal services. It’s not the fault
of the buyer.
I would note that “right thing” means either the law or morality, and if you
go deeper than “it’s the law,” every law / justice is based on what is the “right
thing,” what is “moral,” for the society of the time.
Anyway, if you let us stop at “it’s the law,” well, it is:
— In EU, it’s written law. No discussion.
— In the USA, it’s been said it’s the law, maybe, depending on the State, or
maybe the judge or precedents (common law system), I’m not sure (some have even
argued that, in the USA, you could sign a contract (or make a so-called gentlemen
agreement) overuling the laws… or that it would at least be immoral to break
such agreement). More simply, if PayPal is involved, it’s in PayPal’s terms
that you agreed with, so it’s contract law that applies.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | C0lsanders_ | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 21:01 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| That is the most logical argument for the seller being responsible that I have
heard in years, regarding this. Thank you!
In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
|
I gave you 20$, you received them.
You sent me 20$ of goods, I didn't receive them.
The contract is money against goods.
It's not a Loto ticket: "pay 20$ and have 99.87% chance to get goods".
Whatever your defense could be, you did NOT respected the contract.
|
More accurately: you didn’t (couldn’t) respect the contract because _your_ subcontractor
(courrier / postal services) did not respect the contract you had with them.
Conclusion: turn against the courrier / postal services. It’s not the fault
of the buyer.
I would note that “right thing” means either the law or morality, and if you
go deeper than “it’s the law,” every law / justice is based on what is the “right
thing,” what is “moral,” for the society of the time.
Anyway, if you let us stop at “it’s the law,” well, it is:
— In EU, it’s written law. No discussion.
— In the USA, it’s been said it’s the law, maybe, depending on the State, or
maybe the judge or precedents (common law system), I’m not sure (some have even
argued that, in the USA, you could sign a contract (or make a so-called gentlemen
agreement) overuling the laws… or that it would at least be immoral to break
such agreement). More simply, if PayPal is involved, it’s in PayPal’s terms
that you agreed with, so it’s contract law that applies.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 22:00 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
|
I gave you 20$, you received them.
You sent me 20$ of goods, I didn't receive them.
The contract is money against goods.
It's not a Loto ticket: "pay 20$ and have 99.87% chance to get goods".
Whatever your defense could be, you did NOT respected the contract.
|
More accurately: you didn’t (couldn’t) respect the contract because _your_ subcontractor
(courrier / postal services) did not respect the contract you had with them.
Conclusion: turn against the courrier / postal services. It’s not the fault
of the buyer.
I would note that “right thing” means either the law or morality, and if you
go deeper than “it’s the law,” every law / justice is based on what is the “right
thing,” what is “moral,” for the society of the time.
Anyway, if you let us stop at “it’s the law,” well, it is:
— In EU, it’s written law. No discussion.
— In the USA, it’s been said it’s the law, maybe, depending on the State, or
maybe the judge or precedents (common law system), I’m not sure (some have even
argued that, in the USA, you could sign a contract (or make a so-called gentlemen
agreement) overuling the laws… or that it would at least be immoral to break
such agreement). More simply, if PayPal is involved, it’s in PayPal’s terms
that you agreed with, so it’s contract law that applies.
|
In Germany, a private seller is not responsible for the loss of a package.
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| | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 20:12 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
|
This is a strange question - they would 100% be responsible and would either
refund you or make you another.
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| | | | | | | Author: | C0lsanders_ | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 20:21 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| Correct. But I was saying if I order and pay for a pizza (regardless of where
it is going), THEY are responsible. The person who is getting paid to move the
pizza from A to B is responsible, not me who paid for the pizza. Not a great
example, granted, but it is what I had thought of when writing this.
In Shipping, peregrinator writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
|
This is a strange question - they would 100% be responsible and would either
refund you or make you another.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | psusaxman2000 | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 20:33 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | Correct. But I was saying if I order and pay for a pizza (regardless of where
it is going), THEY are responsible. The person who is getting paid to move the
pizza from A to B is responsible, not me who paid for the pizza. Not a great
example, granted, but it is what I had thought of when writing this.
In Shipping, peregrinator writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
|
This is a strange question - they would 100% be responsible and would either
refund you or make you another.
|
|
This is what insurance is for. In theory, you could go to the USPS and get your
money back for the lost product, but you are the contracted member to the buyer
and not USPS. You made the purchase for the shipping of the goods, therefore
your are responsible for this end of the transaction as well. For both buyer
and seller to be even, buy receives their refund from you because they have no
ability to go to USPS (or any shipping company) because they were not the purchaser
of the shipping label.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | C0lsanders_ | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 21:02 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| That is very reasonable, and makes sense. Thanks.
In Shipping, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | Correct. But I was saying if I order and pay for a pizza (regardless of where
it is going), THEY are responsible. The person who is getting paid to move the
pizza from A to B is responsible, not me who paid for the pizza. Not a great
example, granted, but it is what I had thought of when writing this.
In Shipping, peregrinator writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
|
This is a strange question - they would 100% be responsible and would either
refund you or make you another.
|
|
This is what insurance is for. In theory, you could go to the USPS and get your
money back for the lost product, but you are the contracted member to the buyer
and not USPS. You made the purchase for the shipping of the goods, therefore
your are responsible for this end of the transaction as well. For both buyer
and seller to be even, buy receives their refund from you because they have no
ability to go to USPS (or any shipping company) because they were not the purchaser
of the shipping label.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Play_It_Again | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 21:06 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| I agree with you completely, but playing devils advocate, why isn't the post
office giving refund of the shipping when they lose a package unless insurance
is purchased. Why is their terms of agreement to be held not liable any different
than a sellers terms of agreement saying the same thing?
I ask because I've had several packages lost in the past 18 months, probably
4 or 5 now, that they have no idea where they went and have basically stopped
looking for it. They have never once offered a refund of postage even. Maybe
I need to ask for it but getting to talk with a human at the USPS is not an easy
task and probably not worth the time I'd spend trying to recover the $3.50.
In Shipping, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | Correct. But I was saying if I order and pay for a pizza (regardless of where
it is going), THEY are responsible. The person who is getting paid to move the
pizza from A to B is responsible, not me who paid for the pizza. Not a great
example, granted, but it is what I had thought of when writing this.
In Shipping, peregrinator writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
|
This is a strange question - they would 100% be responsible and would either
refund you or make you another.
|
|
This is what insurance is for. In theory, you could go to the USPS and get your
money back for the lost product, but you are the contracted member to the buyer
and not USPS. You made the purchase for the shipping of the goods, therefore
your are responsible for this end of the transaction as well. For both buyer
and seller to be even, buy receives their refund from you because they have no
ability to go to USPS (or any shipping company) because they were not the purchaser
of the shipping label.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | antant7 | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 05:54 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, Play_It_Again writes:
| | I agree with you completely, but playing devils advocate, why isn't the post
office giving refund of the shipping when they lose a package unless insurance
is purchased. Why is their terms of agreement to be held not liable any different
than a sellers terms of agreement saying the same thing?
|
I would say you are not even playing devil's advocate here. This is a complaint
that I have with PostNL as well. I can understand that if I just stick a few
stamps on a lost package, it's my word against theirs but when I pay for
tracking and THEY confirm to me that THEY failed to complete the service I paid
for, why am I not entitled to a refund?
When it comes to tracked but not insured shipments, it does indeed seem to be
a Loto ticket: "pay €10 and have 99.87% chance to get the service you paid for".
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| | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 22:58 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | I have a package I sent earlier this month, but hasn't arrived (domestic
US). The customer has not brought it up yet, but I am wondering about issuing
a full refund.
My question is why would I be responsible for a lost item? I read on here all
the time that the seller is responsible, but why? I contracted with a company
to deliver an item from A to B, and paid them in full. If they fail in their
paid job, why on Earth would I be responsible (fiscally or otherwise)? If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
Thanks,
Miles (C0lsanders_)
|
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to bring back the old me by addressing
an issue that has come up countless times since BrickLink's inception. As
a retired attorney who specialized in contract law, I answered this question
by using the following terms in my shop when I was a seller here:
"If you choose not to insure your package so that you can reduce shipping costs,
you agree to accept the small risk of loss or damage during transit and to release
us from any claims of non-receipt if we provide you proof of shipping. We
ship all uninsured orders FOB (or FCA) Shipping Point. This means once we
take your uninsured package to the post office, it belongs to you, ownership
and risk of loss pass to you at that point, and you are thereafter responsible
for any loss or damage during transit not covered by insurance. We give you this
CHOICE as a courtesy and option for YOU to save shipping costs. If you cannot
accept these terms or the small risk of loss in return for cheaper shipping,
please let us know and we will gladly remain responsible for delivering the package
into your hands. All we ask is that you then pay our actual costs for obtaining
insured trackable shipping."
Some may argue that PayPal's terms trump any contrary terms in your shop.
But PayPal's selling terms only apply to you and PayPal - not to your buyer.
Your buyer makes a subsequent intervening agreement with YOU when they place
an order with YOU. So YOUR terms control between you and your buyer. You will,
of course, still have to honor your agreement with PayPal. However, if a buyer
accepts your terms but then successfully seeks a chargeback from PayPal, the
buyer is still bound by your terms and must still pay for the order. PayPal
just won't allow itself to be the means of payment. You can still seek payment
from the buyer via other means. But practically speaking, there really isn't
much you can do that is economically worthwhile. Nonetheless, if the order is
large enough, you CAN file suit for breach of contract in small claims court
(depending on your state).
The legal key to all this is that the buyer agreed to accept delivery not to
his home, but to a third party shipping agent (e.g. the Post Office) and knowingly
agreed to assume all risk of loss after that point. Businesses do this all the
time.
This is what you CAN do. What you SHOULD do can be very different, depending
on the specific circumstances of each case.
In my long career as an attorney, clients almost always made one of two mistakes.
Either they believed the law did not apply to them when it, in fact, did. Or
they believed the law applied to them when it did not. In my experience, this
latter mistake was very often more costly for businesses because it convinced
them not to pursue opportunities that could have been very lucrative for them.
A lawyer's job is not just to advise a business what they can or cannot
do. But to also advise them how to legally do something the law seemingly says
they cannot do.
Foster
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| | | | | | | Author: | Yo_Yo_Flamingo | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 23:29 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| | | Some may argue that PayPal's terms trump any contrary terms in your shop.
But PayPal's selling terms only apply to you and PayPal - not to your buyer.
|
A very nice thought... However, when a buyer pays with Paypal, paypal gains all
leverage over you. They don't want their service to be seen as impotent,
so they are aggressive in defending buyer's money (even too far, sometimes).
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Mar 25, 2022 23:52 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, Yo_Yo_Flamingo writes:
| | | | Some may argue that PayPal's terms trump any contrary terms in your shop.
But PayPal's selling terms only apply to you and PayPal - not to your buyer.
|
A very nice thought... However, when a buyer pays with Paypal, paypal gains all
leverage over you. They don't want their service to be seen as impotent,
so they are aggressive in defending buyer's money (even too far, sometimes).
|
You are absolutely correct. Regardless of your shop terms, PayPal can still
refund the buyer. But by doing so PayPal is NOT saying the buyer does not have
any legal obligation to pay for the order. They are only saying that PayPal
cannot be used to pay for that order. A PayPal chargeback does not void the
sales contract or extinguish the buyer's obligation to honor the seller's
terms. Depending on your store terms and the applicable law, the buyer may still
be legally obligated to pay for the order (via some means other than PayPal).
Of course, from a practical and economic point of view, no one is going to pursue
legal remedies over a $50 order. But for say a large $5,000+ order between sellers,
legal options ARE still available.
Foster
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| | | | | Author: | jonwil | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 00:30 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| I have never understood this notion that if someone puts a package in the mail
the shipper somehow has responsibility for events beyond their control.
If I order a pizza from the local Domino's, the guy who delivers it is employed
by Domino's (or the franchisee) and its reasonable to expect the Domino's
store involved to sort it out if things go wrong. But once I stick mail into
an Australia Post post box or hand it over the counter at the post office, I
no longer have any control over the package so why should anything that happens
to it be my responsibility?
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| | | | | | | Author: | SurplusParts | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 05:02 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, jonwil writes:
| | I have never understood this notion that if someone puts a package in the mail
the shipper somehow has responsibility for events beyond their control.
If I order a pizza from the local Domino's, the guy who delivers it is employed
by Domino's (or the franchisee) and its reasonable to expect the Domino's
store involved to sort it out if things go wrong. But once I stick mail into
an Australia Post post box or hand it over the counter at the post office, I
no longer have any control over the package so why should anything that happens
to it be my responsibility?
|
When you make a purchase from a store, you make a contract that says that the
seller will have the order delivered to you. Now most sellers specify the method
that this will be done... postal service or courier being the most obvious method.
The seller then will sub contract the postal service or courier to deliver the
goods. It is then the responsibility of the seller to protect themselves against
loss of goods with the sub contractor, whether this is with insurance etc.
So with your example, if you order a pizza with Dominoes, then you have a contract
with them that they will deliver the pizza. If, instead of delivering it themselves,
they use a sub contractor such as UBER eats, than Dominoes needs to ensure that
they are protected in the event that the pizza is not delivered.
Just because you have no control over the delivery of the package does not mean
you are not responsible for it. You just have to protect yourself against loss.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 02:18 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | I have a package I sent earlier this month, but hasn't arrived (domestic
US). The customer has not brought it up yet, but I am wondering about issuing
a full refund.
My question is why would I be responsible for a lost item? I read on here all
the time that the seller is responsible, but why? I contracted with a company
to deliver an item from A to B, and paid them in full. If they fail in their
paid job, why on Earth would I be responsible (fiscally or otherwise)? If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
Thanks,
Miles (C0lsanders_)
|
The logical reason is that you have a contract with a buyer to fulfill their
order. If they don't get the item they ordered, you have not fulfilled the
contract.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 07:07 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, yorbrick writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | I have a package I sent earlier this month, but hasn't arrived (domestic
US). The customer has not brought it up yet, but I am wondering about issuing
a full refund.
My question is why would I be responsible for a lost item? I read on here all
the time that the seller is responsible, but why? I contracted with a company
to deliver an item from A to B, and paid them in full. If they fail in their
paid job, why on Earth would I be responsible (fiscally or otherwise)? If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
Thanks,
Miles (C0lsanders_)
|
The logical reason is that you have a contract with a buyer to fulfill their
order. If they don't get the item they ordered, you have not fulfilled the
contract.
|
This is the normal situation. Your agreement as a seller is to deliver the goods
to the buyer. If you hire someone else to actually deliver the goods to the
buyer, you are still legally responsible even if the subcontractor you hired
fails to perform what you paid them to do.
However, a seller CAN make a different agreement with the buyer. It just needs
to be clear in their terms. Thus, for example, a seller's terms can clearly
state that for uninsured orders they agree to deliver only to the shipper (not
to the buyer) and that their performance of the contract is complete at that
point. From that point on, the buyer is legally deemed to have received the
package and is responsible for any loss thereafter. In other words, a seller's
terms can legally shift the agency created with the shipper. Instead of the
normal situation where the shipper (e.g. USPS) is the agent of the seller, shop
terms can instead make the shipper the agent of the buyer.
Businesses very frequently contract in this matter using FOB terms, especially
in B2B transactions. "FOB destination" means the seller is responsible for the
package reaching its destination (usually the buyer's location). "FOB origin"
means the buyer is responsible for the package once it leaves the seller's
place of business. "FOB shipper" means the seller is responsible only for delivering
the package to the agreed upon shipper.
Some states and countries may have laws limiting FOB terms to consumers or
individual end-user buyers. But absent such laws, sellers are free to include
whatever FOB terms they like.
Foster
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 07:56 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, ToriHada writes:
| | In Shipping, yorbrick writes:
| | In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | I have a package I sent earlier this month, but hasn't arrived (domestic
US). The customer has not brought it up yet, but I am wondering about issuing
a full refund.
My question is why would I be responsible for a lost item? I read on here all
the time that the seller is responsible, but why? I contracted with a company
to deliver an item from A to B, and paid them in full. If they fail in their
paid job, why on Earth would I be responsible (fiscally or otherwise)? If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
Thanks,
Miles (C0lsanders_)
|
The logical reason is that you have a contract with a buyer to fulfill their
order. If they don't get the item they ordered, you have not fulfilled the
contract.
|
This is the normal situation. Your agreement as a seller is to deliver the goods
to the buyer. If you hire someone else to actually deliver the goods to the
buyer, you are still legally responsible even if the subcontractor you hired
fails to perform what you paid them to do.
However, a seller CAN make a different agreement with the buyer. It just needs
to be clear in their terms. Thus, for example, a seller's terms can clearly
state that for uninsured orders they agree to deliver only to the shipper (not
to the buyer) and that their performance of the contract is complete at that
point. From that point on, the buyer is legally deemed to have received the
package and is responsible for any loss thereafter. In other words, a seller's
terms can legally shift the agency created with the shipper. Instead of the
normal situation where the shipper (e.g. USPS) is the agent of the seller, shop
terms can instead make the shipper the agent of the buyer.
Businesses very frequently contract in this matter using FOB terms, especially
in B2B transactions. "FOB destination" means the seller is responsible for the
package reaching its destination (usually the buyer's location). "FOB origin"
means the buyer is responsible for the package once it leaves the seller's
place of business. "FOB shipper" means the seller is responsible only for delivering
the package to the agreed upon shipper.
Some states and countries may have laws limiting FOB terms to consumers or
individual end-user buyers. But absent such laws, sellers are free to include
whatever FOB terms they like.
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The example given was comparing the situation to a pizza delivery, where the
seller has a contract to to deliver to the buyer's address via a subcontracted
delivery service.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 08:52 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| | | But absent such laws, sellers are free to include
whatever FOB terms they like.
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Here in EU, laws dictate what a seller can write or not to public - and his nonsense
could be either simply ignored or worse, condemned.
But the main problems in your Story are:
1) There is NO WAY on BrickLink to "make the buyer agree something".
Terms are a long page, not read, the guy clicks - and the more often can argue
he didn't see it, or comprehend it.
There is no red check box, along a PDF to download to read the Terms, nothing.
So you can't prove that the buyer agreed to anything because you can't
have a reasonnable proof he read it.
2) I don't know the others but say 2/3 of my buyers don't speak my language.
Do you "agree" German GMBH Terms when it doesn't mean anything (to me at
least)?
No, I didn't agree as I've no way to comprenhend what I have to agree
to.
In short, at least for the Public, Terms not in the buyer's language are
simply void in EU.
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| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Mar 26, 2022 18:06 | | Subject: | Re: Lost package fault | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, C0lsanders_ writes:
| | I have a package I sent earlier this month, but hasn't arrived (domestic
US). The customer has not brought it up yet, but I am wondering about issuing
a full refund.
My question is why would I be responsible for a lost item? I read on here all
the time that the seller is responsible, but why? I contracted with a company
to deliver an item from A to B, and paid them in full. If they fail in their
paid job, why on Earth would I be responsible (fiscally or otherwise)? If I order
a pizza and pay them in advance, but they lose it, drop it, or whatever, who
is responsible...?
I'm looking for logic and/or legal reasons, NOT "it's the right thing"
reasonings.
Thanks,
Miles (C0lsanders_)
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Logic: If you are the buyer of a pizza and the seller does not deliver it to
you, for whatever reason, (even an unfortunate accident), the seller doesn't
get to "sorry" and then keep your money while you go hungry.
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