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 |
| | | Author: | gideon84  | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 17:46 | | Subject: | Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 304 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 17:54 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| I'll see if I can dig up the relevant sections of the PayPal Terms of Service,
but it is my understanding that it is the seller's responsibility to ensure
that the package is delivered to the buyer, even though—as you rightly pointed
out—there's not much the seller can do once the package leaves their hands.
Personally, I would simply refund the buyer at this point, else you may find
yourself with a PayPal chargeback on your hands and no one, buyer or seller,
wants that. This is part of the cost of doing business, especially international
business—if you cannot afford the risk, do not ship internationally.
In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:30 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, wildchicken13 writes:
| | I'll see if I can dig up the relevant sections of the PayPal Terms of Service,
but it is my understanding that it is the seller's responsibility to ensure
that the package is delivered to the buyer, even though—as you rightly pointed
out—there's not much the seller can do once the package leaves their hands.
Personally, I would simply refund the buyer at this point, else you may find
yourself with a PayPal chargeback on your hands and no one, buyer or seller,
wants that. This is part of the cost of doing business, especially international
business—if you cannot afford the risk, do not ship internationally.
In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
|
Can a chargeback be filed even with a tracking number and shipping receipt showing
it was mailed?
I’m not too concerned if it actually happens, but am surprised if that is the
policy. How does that prevent buyers making fraudulent chargebacks after purchases?
Not saying I’d want one either, just as I’ve not had one chargeback ever nor
a single lost order (after probably 1,000 orders both here and on the “other”
site), I find the ease of doing that as a buyer interesting.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:43 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | Can a chargeback be filed even with a tracking number and shipping receipt showing
it was mailed?
|
Chargeback != PayPal dispute/claim.
PayPal dispute/claim: you must prove the buyer *received* it.
A tracking is normally not enough; you need signature or code at receipt (Covid...)
Chargeback can be done within 6 months at least - order received or not, they
don't care. You just can say "I never authorize this payment".
| | I’m not too concerned if it actually happens, but am surprised if that is the
policy. How does that prevent buyers making fraudulent chargebacks after purchases?
|
PayPal and Stripe examine the buyer's credit/debit card incidents.
In particular Stripe can refuse a payment if their complicated algorithm tell
them so.
Of course, if it's the first problem - there's almost no way.
| | Not saying I’d want one either, just as I’ve not had one chargeback ever nor
a single lost order (after probably 1,000 orders both here and on the “other”
site), I find the ease of doing that as a buyer interesting.
|
1/1000 or 1/2000 is a fine ratio.
But it will happen, once or a couple per year.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 19:08 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | In Shipping, wildchicken13 writes:
| | I'll see if I can dig up the relevant sections of the PayPal Terms of Service,
but it is my understanding that it is the seller's responsibility to ensure
that the package is delivered to the buyer, even though—as you rightly pointed
out—there's not much the seller can do once the package leaves their hands.
Personally, I would simply refund the buyer at this point, else you may find
yourself with a PayPal chargeback on your hands and no one, buyer or seller,
wants that. This is part of the cost of doing business, especially international
business—if you cannot afford the risk, do not ship internationally.
In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
|
Can a chargeback be filed even with a tracking number and shipping receipt showing
it was mailed?
|
Yes. The only defense against a PayPal claim/dispute is proof of delivery;
i.e., tracking number showing the package was delivered.
As an aside, I have found that some countries are better than others when it
comes to updating the tracking information. Sometimes, a package appears to be
stuck somewhere when it is in fact moving through the network as normal. I'm
not sure which website you're using to track the package, but generally the
mostly reliable, up-to-date information is to be found on the recipient country's
postal website, not necessarily USPS.com.
| | I’m not too concerned if it actually happens, but am surprised if that is the
policy. How does that prevent buyers making fraudulent chargebacks after purchases?
|
It doesn't. That's not to say that anyone can just file a chargeback
or open a dispute any time they feel like it, but there are a lot of forum posts
from unhappy sellers dealing with fraudulent chargebacks from unhappy or even
outright malicious buyers. However, the reality is that 99.9% of orders have
no problems whatsoever, it's just that 0.1% you've got to watch out for.
| | Not saying I’d want one either, just as I’ve not had one chargeback ever nor
a single lost order (after probably 1,000 orders both here and on the “other”
site), I find the ease of doing that as a buyer interesting.
|
I never said it was easy, per se, just that in general, in the event of a dispute,
PayPal tends to side with the buyer. It's how PayPal maintains buyers'
trust and confidence.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 21:40 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | In Shipping, wildchicken13 writes:
| | I'll see if I can dig up the relevant sections of the PayPal Terms of Service,
but it is my understanding that it is the seller's responsibility to ensure
that the package is delivered to the buyer, even though—as you rightly pointed
out—there's not much the seller can do once the package leaves their hands.
Personally, I would simply refund the buyer at this point, else you may find
yourself with a PayPal chargeback on your hands and no one, buyer or seller,
wants that. This is part of the cost of doing business, especially international
business—if you cannot afford the risk, do not ship internationally.
In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
|
Can a chargeback be filed even with a tracking number and shipping receipt showing
it was mailed?
|
Yes. The only defense against a PayPal claim/dispute is proof of delivery;
i.e., tracking number showing the package was delivered.
As an aside, I have found that some countries are better than others when it
comes to updating the tracking information. Sometimes, a package appears to be
stuck somewhere when it is in fact moving through the network as normal. I'm
not sure which website you're using to track the package, but generally the
mostly reliable, up-to-date information is to be found on the recipient country's
postal website, not necessarily USPS.com.
| | I’m not too concerned if it actually happens, but am surprised if that is the
policy. How does that prevent buyers making fraudulent chargebacks after purchases?
|
It doesn't. That's not to say that anyone can just file a chargeback
or open a dispute any time they feel like it, but there are a lot of forum posts
from unhappy sellers dealing with fraudulent chargebacks from unhappy or even
outright malicious buyers. However, the reality is that 99.9% of orders have
no problems whatsoever, it's just that 0.1% you've got to watch out for.
| | Not saying I’d want one either, just as I’ve not had one chargeback ever nor
a single lost order (after probably 1,000 orders both here and on the “other”
site), I find the ease of doing that as a buyer interesting.
|
I never said it was easy, per se, just that in general, in the event of a dispute,
PayPal tends to side with the buyer. It's how PayPal maintains buyers'
trust and confidence.
|
I use USPS. Tried a couple others. Same info so far. I’m beginning to wonder
what the heck happened too..,
The thing is, USPS is slow as usual even though I feel that I’ve taken the right
steps so far
Great info on the chargeback though.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:33 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, wildchicken13 writes:
| | I'll see if I can dig up the relevant sections of the PayPal Terms of Service,
but it is my understanding that it is the seller's responsibility to ensure
that the package is delivered to the buyer, even though—as you rightly pointed
out—there's not much the seller can do once the package leaves their hands.
Personally, I would simply refund the buyer at this point, else you may find
yourself with a PayPal chargeback on your hands and no one, buyer or seller,
wants that. This is part of the cost of doing business, especially international
business—if you cannot afford the risk, do not ship internationally.
In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
|
I can certainly afford it, but just would rather not have to lose money…
This is also not a question I’d ask as a buyer, at least not yet at this point.
Now, if the seller can’t provide me with tracking number or shipping receipt,
then absolutely I would’ve asked for a refund already.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:07 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:09 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
|
He CANNOT cancel; it's paid and shipped.
You COULD refund him, but as you say, he then simply can keep both package and
money.
I did that with a couple of buyers, they all repaid or proposed to repay when
the order arrived, and they did!
But it was for lesser amounts...
Right now the buyer can start an NSS, and/or a PayPal dispute/claim.
I would be you:
* I would discuss the maximum with the buyer saying you promise to refund him
if not arrived, but ask him kindly to be more patient,
* if that doesn't work, I would USE both NSS/PayPal delays in case the order
arrives
in between.
And at the last moment, I'd refund.
Because PayPal WILL take your money anyway, and BL may stick a completed NSS
to your profile. Brrr.
Not what you wish to show when you're in a discotheque
I'd also rethink at your shipping options/methods.
Yes, it's your fate as a seller to loose some money from time to time, it
should be in your costs/previsions.
But maybe depending the amount, enforcing to some more secure shipping method
- if you have - would be safer.
But as it'll be more expensive, you'll loose orders, loose money
It's all a question of compromise.
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:37 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:37 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
|
He CANNOT cancel; it's paid and shipped.
You COULD refund him, but as you say, he then simply can keep both package and
money.
I did that with a couple of buyers, they all repaid or proposed to repay when
the order arrived, and they did!
But it was for lesser amounts...
Right now the buyer can start an NSS, and/or a PayPal dispute/claim.
I would be you:
* I would discuss the maximum with the buyer saying you promise to refund him
if not arrived, but ask him kindly to be more patient,
* if that doesn't work, I would USE both NSS/PayPal delays in case the order
arrives
in between.
And at the last moment, I'd refund.
Because PayPal WILL take your money anyway, and BL may stick a completed NSS
to your profile. Brrr.
Not what you wish to show when you're in a discotheque
I'd also rethink at your shipping options/methods.
Yes, it's your fate as a seller to loose some money from time to time, it
should be in your costs/previsions.
But maybe depending the amount, enforcing to some more secure shipping method
- if you have - would be safer.
But as it'll be more expensive, you'll loose orders, loose money
It's all a question of compromise.
|
Great advice! I’ll definitely take it into consideration.
“If that doesn't work, I would USE both NSS/PayPal delays in case the order
What do you mean exactly? I’m not quite clear here. Can a buyer actually file
NSS (non-shipping seller) on BL when there’s tracking number showing it’s shipped?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:46 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | What do you mean exactly? I’m not quite clear here. Can a buyer actually file
NSS (non-shipping seller) on BL when there’s tracking number showing it’s shipped?
|
Absolutely.
He can start NSS or PayPal dispute.
You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
But you'll have 7 days or 15 days - depending what happens. Use them, you
never know, it can arrive and the buyer retracts.
But first first, talk with the buyer and get delay - promise you'll solve
the problem (and you'd better ).
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:57 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | What do you mean exactly? I’m not quite clear here. Can a buyer actually file
NSS (non-shipping seller) on BL when there’s tracking number showing it’s shipped?
|
Absolutely.
He can start NSS or PayPal dispute.
You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
But you'll have 7 days or 15 days - depending what happens. Use them, you
never know, it can arrive and the buyer retracts.
But first first, talk with the buyer and get delay - promise you'll solve
the problem (and you'd better ).
|
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
I have two problems on my hands now that I’ve read this post:
1) I’m not sure if the Priority International even does signature upon delivering
the package. I don’t ship via this method often but it doesn’t as far as I recall…
2) I already promised the buyer that. I would not go back on my promise. It does
not sit right with me to have the buyer lose money at all, just wish he has a
bit more patience since it’s already under investigation.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 19:05 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | 1) I’m not sure if the Priority International even does signature upon delivering
the package. I don’t ship via this method often but it doesn’t as far as I recall…
|
I don't think so either.
Note this kind of parcel/value may be stuck at Customs - just because they're
OVER busy.
| | 2) I already promised the buyer that. I would not go back on my promise.
|
That's very fine.
| | It does not sit right with me to have the buyer lose money at all, just wish he has a
bit more patience since it’s already under investigation.
|
This is why you've to talk with him.
Send screen copy of your demand, send him copy of any reply.
S.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 06:38 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | What do you mean exactly? I’m not quite clear here. Can a buyer actually file
NSS (non-shipping seller) on BL when there’s tracking number showing it’s shipped?
|
Absolutely.
He can start NSS or PayPal dispute.
You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
But you'll have 7 days or 15 days - depending what happens. Use them, you
never know, it can arrive and the buyer retracts.
But first first, talk with the buyer and get delay - promise you'll solve
the problem (and you'd better ).
|
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
I have two problems on my hands now that I’ve read this post:
1) I’m not sure if the Priority International even does signature upon delivering
the package. I don’t ship via this method often but it doesn’t as far as I recall…
2) I already promised the buyer that. I would not go back on my promise. It does
not sit right with me to have the buyer lose money at all, just wish he has a
bit more patience since it’s already under investigation.
|
Your promise is an iron-clad guarantee. The buyer is in the driver's seat
here. If they claim something did not happen, and absent any proof to the contrary,
then their claim stands. The key here is less that you shipped it, it's that
it arrived. Without any proof of that, then PayPal will side with the buyer.
You should also look at the payment/transaction detail at PayPal. Is the transaction
marked as 'Eligible', 'Partially Eligible', or 'Not Eligible'
? That will decide if you have any PayPal seller protection.
Nita Rae
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 09:17 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, cosmicray writes:
| | In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | What do you mean exactly? I’m not quite clear here. Can a buyer actually file
NSS (non-shipping seller) on BL when there’s tracking number showing it’s shipped?
|
Absolutely.
He can start NSS or PayPal dispute.
You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
But you'll have 7 days or 15 days - depending what happens. Use them, you
never know, it can arrive and the buyer retracts.
But first first, talk with the buyer and get delay - promise you'll solve
the problem (and you'd better ).
|
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
I have two problems on my hands now that I’ve read this post:
1) I’m not sure if the Priority International even does signature upon delivering
the package. I don’t ship via this method often but it doesn’t as far as I recall…
2) I already promised the buyer that. I would not go back on my promise. It does
not sit right with me to have the buyer lose money at all, just wish he has a
bit more patience since it’s already under investigation.
|
Your promise is an iron-clad guarantee. The buyer is in the driver's seat
here. If they claim something did not happen, and absent any proof to the contrary,
then their claim stands. The key here is less that you shipped it, it's that
it arrived. Without any proof of that, then PayPal will side with the buyer.
You should also look at the payment/transaction detail at PayPal. Is the transaction
marked as 'Eligible', 'Partially Eligible', or 'Not Eligible'
? That will decide if you have any PayPal seller protection.
Nita Rae
|
Thanks for the reply! Yes, absolutely. I was ready to reimburse him if all else
fails. But since his package is insured, I was hoping that he would let the process
play out.
I’ve looked at it. I am eligible. Thanks!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | What do you mean exactly? I’m not quite clear here. Can a buyer actually file
NSS (non-shipping seller) on BL when there’s tracking number showing it’s shipped?
|
Absolutely.
He can start NSS or PayPal dispute.
|
or both!
| | You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
|
Yes, BL will probably remove the NSS once the seller gives the tracking information.
But for PP the goods need to have been delivered.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 21:50 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, peregrinator writes:
| | In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | What do you mean exactly? I’m not quite clear here. Can a buyer actually file
NSS (non-shipping seller) on BL when there’s tracking number showing it’s shipped?
|
Absolutely.
He can start NSS or PayPal dispute.
|
or both!
| | You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
|
Yes, BL will probably remove the NSS once the seller gives the tracking information.
But for PP the goods need to have been delivered.
|
Ok I see. So, assuming the buyer files chargeback or if I refund the buyer in
full, but then it’s delivered to the buyer per tracking later. Then do I get
the fund back from PP? Or is it up to the discretion of the buyer?
On the other hand, if it gets delivered but by chance the info isn’t updated
(ie. No signature collected), then what? I’m out the goods AND the funds? How
is the seller protected by PP in this situation?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 21:57 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | | | | | You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
|
Yes, BL will probably remove the NSS once the seller gives the tracking information.
But for PP the goods need to have been delivered.
|
Ok I see. So, assuming the buyer files chargeback or if I refund the buyer in
full, but then it’s delivered to the buyer per tracking later. Then do I get
the fund back from PP? Or is it up to the discretion of the buyer?
|
No no - I explained to you, this is NOT chargeback.
If you mean PayPal dispute/claim/whatever - if you refund, ANY time, then your
money is refunded, there's no way you'll get it back.
Apart is the buyer is kind, then he'll PAY you again (because he can't
"cancel" a refund).
But better don't count on this.
| | On the other hand, if it gets delivered but by chance the info isn’t updated
(ie. No signature collected), then what? I’m out the goods AND the funds? How
is the seller protected by PP in this situation?
|
Oh God - reread everything 
Tracking is NOT delivery proof.
The seller is (usually) not protected.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 22:08 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | | | You THEN will have to prove to BL or PP that you shipped (and again, for PP it's
not sufficient, it must be signed as arrived).
|
Yes, BL will probably remove the NSS once the seller gives the tracking information.
But for PP the goods need to have been delivered.
|
Ok I see. So, assuming the buyer files chargeback or if I refund the buyer in
full, but then it’s delivered to the buyer per tracking later. Then do I get
the fund back from PP? Or is it up to the discretion of the buyer?
|
No no - I explained to you, this is NOT chargeback.
If you mean PayPal dispute/claim/whatever - if you refund, ANY time, then your
money is refunded, there's no way you'll get it back.
Apart is the buyer is kind, then he'll PAY you again (because he can't
"cancel" a refund).
But better don't count on this.
| | On the other hand, if it gets delivered but by chance the info isn’t updated
(ie. No signature collected), then what? I’m out the goods AND the funds? How
is the seller protected by PP in this situation?
|
Oh God - reread everything
Tracking is NOT delivery proof.
The seller is (usually) not protected.
|
I understood perfectly what you/ another said. Yes, I know if I refund the buyer,
it’s not a chargeback. But if I don’t do it immediately (I still think a reasonable
buyer would let the process play out), and the buyer issues a chargeback and
gets his fund, will I then get to reverse that action if the order does get delivered
later?
Of course I know tracking by itself isn’t delivery proof. Not sure what your
point is here.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 22:16 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | I understood perfectly what you/ another said. Yes, I know if I refund the buyer,
it’s not a chargeback. But if I don’t do it immediately (I still think a reasonable
buyer would let the process play out), and the buyer issues a chargeback and
gets his fund, will I then get to reverse that action if the order does get delivered
later?
|
If the buyer files a PayPal claim and wins, not only will they get their money
back, but PayPal will also hit you with a penalty fee. Not sure what happens
if there is a chargeback via a credit card. In any case you don't get to
reverse the refund or claim if the package is eventually delivered.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 22:24 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, peregrinator writes:
| | In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | I understood perfectly what you/ another said. Yes, I know if I refund the buyer,
it’s not a chargeback. But if I don’t do it immediately (I still think a reasonable
buyer would let the process play out), and the buyer issues a chargeback and
gets his fund, will I then get to reverse that action if the order does get delivered
later?
|
If the buyer files a PayPal claim and wins, not only will they get their money
back, but PayPal will also hit you with a penalty fee. Not sure what happens
if there is a chargeback via a credit card. In any case you don't get to
reverse the refund or claim if the package is eventually delivered.
|
Great! Thanks! That’s what I was looking for. Essentially, sellers aren’t really
fully protected by PayPal either way.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 22:26 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | I understood perfectly what you/ another said. Yes, I know if I refund the buyer,
it’s not a chargeback.
|
No: a PayPal dispute/claim is not a chargeback.
A chargeback can be done ANY time, items received or not. It's when for example
you say you did not authorize this payment, ex: someone used your card without
your consent, or who knows.
This is VERY different from a PayPal dispute, the buyer saying he didn't
receive the order or what he ordered.
| | But if I don’t do it immediately (I still think a reasonable
buyer would let the process play out), and the buyer issues a chargeback and
gets his fund, will I then get to reverse that action if the order does get delivered
later?
|
NO, I wrote it.
Nobody can't cancel a PayPal payment refunded by you or PayPal themselves
after a dispute/claim.
S.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 22:58 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I understood perfectly what you/ another said. Yes, I know if I refund the buyer,
it’s not a chargeback.
|
No: a PayPal dispute/claim is not a chargeback.
A chargeback can be done ANY time, items received or not. It's when for example
you say you did not authorize this payment, ex: someone used your card without
your consent, or who knows.
This is VERY different from a PayPal dispute, the buyer saying he didn't
receive the order or what he ordered.
| | But if I don’t do it immediately (I still think a reasonable
buyer would let the process play out), and the buyer issues a chargeback and
gets his fund, will I then get to reverse that action if the order does get delivered
later?
|
NO, I wrote it.
Nobody can't cancel a PayPal payment refunded by you or PayPal themselves
after a dispute/claim.
S.
|
Yes, I know what a credit card chargeback is… thanks for explaining though.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 23:03 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | Yes, I know what a credit card chargeback is… thanks for explaining though.
|
Sorry.
Please take time to talk with the buyer.
You both are the key - negotiate a delay, be ready to refund.
Forum will hardly help.
Sylvain
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 23:07 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | Yes, I know what a credit card chargeback is… thanks for explaining though.
|
Sorry.
Please take time to talk with the buyer.
You both are the key - negotiate a delay, be ready to refund.
Forum will hardly help.
Sylvain
|
Actually, it has helped. I appreciate your responses too.
I've actually already taken a lot of time communicating with the said buyer...
just wanted some input like I mentioned, since it's the first time I've
ever had to deal with such a difficult transaction.
I think I know what to do now. Thanks again!!!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 22:11 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
]Ok I see. So, assuming the buyer files chargeback or if I refund the buyer
in
| | full, but then it’s delivered to the buyer per tracking later. Then do I get
the fund back from PP? Or is it up to the discretion of the buyer?
|
It's at the buyer's discretion - he or she would have to explicitly send
you the funds; there isn't a "reverse refund" function.
| | On the other hand, if it gets delivered but by chance the info isn’t updated
(ie. No signature collected), then what? I’m out the goods AND the funds? How
is the seller protected by PP in this situation?
|
I don't believe the seller would be protected in this scenario. But if the
package doesn't show that it was delivered, you might still have an insurance
claim, if the package was insured.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | billamber | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:15 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
This has happened to me a several times. Thankfully, in all but one case, asking
the buyer to 'give it more time' was successful. In the one situation
where the buyer had waited a couple of months and wanted a refund, stating they
would repay in the event the order ever did arrive, I went ahead and refunded
the order (including the shipping). About a month later, the buyer received the
order and did, in fact, repay! (there are still ethical people in this world!)
As wildchicken said, it is the cost of doing business.
I believe that by verifying via the usps site, that the order is hung up somewhere,
you also learn that it is still in the system and will probably arrive eventually.
IMHO- starting a claim process thru the usps not only takes a ridiculous amount
of time, but in my experience, hasn't been too fruitful.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:48 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, billamber writes:
| | In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
This has happened to me a several times. Thankfully, in all but one case, asking
the buyer to 'give it more time' was successful. In the one situation
where the buyer had waited a couple of months and wanted a refund, stating they
would repay in the event the order ever did arrive, I went ahead and refunded
the order (including the shipping). About a month later, the buyer received the
order and did, in fact, repay! (there are still ethical people in this world!)
As wildchicken said, it is the cost of doing business.
I believe that by verifying via the usps site, that the order is hung up somewhere,
you also learn that it is still in the system and will probably arrive eventually.
IMHO- starting a claim process thru the usps not only takes a ridiculous amount
of time, but in my experience, hasn't been too fruitful.
|
Thanks for sharing. Well, I can’t say I’m quite as optimistic as far as getting
the fund back… Especially this is really an unknown situation for me since I
haven’t had a delay this long, ever. Funny thing is, this is the first order
I’ve ever mailed to Bulgaria and…. I don’t know, maybe I’ve just become more
of a cynic these days after losing to a fraudulent insurance claim recently and
my recent dealings in my own world with both a family member and a coworker who
have questionable behaviors and serious character flaws. Sigh~
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 19:00 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | | Thanks for sharing. Well, I can’t say I’m quite as optimistic as far as getting
the fund back… Especially this is really an unknown situation for me since I
haven’t had a delay this long, ever.
|
I received an envelope from KS (I think) 18 months after shipment - yes, back
one year and a half after.
In between, of course, I refunded the buyer (who claimed he didn't receive)
- maybe I was thinking "bah, he lied, but whatever...". He didn't, the dates
were stamped on the envelope...
I also have had a couple of orders paid, either never shipped (address reason)
or shipped back, and no way to contact the buyer.
Refunded (very) later on - hoping they're fine, just hoping 
I also shipped an UCS Mint/Sealed Set shipped... to the wrong buyer (our fault,
yes).
We discussed to both buyers, they agree to ship back/not accept the parcels and
we reshipped + offered a gift; both were happy in the end.
That was really worrying, costly
We also discovered an "shipped" enveloped that felt in our car, under the seat
Dropped from our shipping boxes.
And the Post office called us, they've found an envelope - quite the same
- felt under a furniture (2 months after shipping)...
In short, anything can happen including a 3 months delay - that's "often"
the case.
There are also some political complexities in some Countries, where sometimes,
stealing is either organized or the only solution for people to survive - I don't
know, but it can be risky.
HTH
Sylvain
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 19:14 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| I once had a package returned to me from China because the recipient was "missing"
I'm not sure how many people follow U.S. news outside of the U.S., but there
is also this going on right now:
https://www.railfreight.com/railfreight/2022/01/20/massive-theft-of-packages-from-trains-in-los-angeles/
It seems to be mostly affecting Amazon, UPS, and FedEx, so not sure how much
effect this has had on BrickLink which is mostly USPS.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 19:30 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 21:35 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, zorbanj writes:
Just tried them. Same info as USPS.com (in transit).
Thanks for helping though!
|
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | bricksonmove | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 02:54 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
Just reading this SIT AND WAIT. If the buyer paid VIA Paypal which just reading
between the lines they have. Let them make the 1st move re a refund. There
a big reason WHY will go into this in a min.
Right NOW from your side keep on USPS and trying to find that package etc.
NOW back to pay pal. DO NOT REFUND the buyer. LET them come at you through
PAY PAL. for buyer protection. There logic to this and will see you NOT out of
pocket as long as you follow the steps and all bases are covered.
When you get the notice of the buyer claiming via pay pal. Reply to that and
mention the ITEM was a tracked item etc. Also in the reply tell them you want
to OPEN a seller protection case based on the ground the item has Been sent.
UNDER SELLER PROTECTION you are covered as long as you have entered the tracking
number on pay pal site and sent the item to the address that on the buyer paypal
account as the shipping address. To get seller protection all you have to do
is prove item was sent which you can via the tracking number. Paypal will cover
the full cost of that missing package. BUT you CAN NOT do anything till the
buyer comes at you via buyer protection. DO NOT REFUND or you will be out
of pocket...
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 09:21 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, bricksonmove writes:
| | In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Hello BL Sellers,
I've recently encountered a serious problem with shipping delay on an international
order, so I would like to have some input from other experienced sellers on the
situation before making the "right" decision.
I'd try to keep this as short as possible... so early December of last year,
I received a rather large order from a buyer in Bulgaria. It all came to just
below $160.00 before any shipping charge / credit. The communication went well
and all, after a bit of back and forth, we settled on a price we both agreed
upon. Sent an invoice with the total, and got paid the full amount within a day.
Needless to say, I quickly packed the order and sent it out via USPS Priority
Mail International around 3 days later on the 11th of that month.
Fast forward a month later, I received an email in January of this year from
the same buyer claiming the order hasn't arrived. I was absolutely surprised
by the news, since the buyer asked and paid for International Priority Mail that
was "supposed" to arrive in 2 weeks, but hasn't arrived at that point somehow.
I checked the USPS tracking and found that to be indeed the case. With tracking
showing that it's stuck in New York somehow as of Jan. 4 somehow. I apologized
and asked the buyer to be patient, because, well, it's really out of my control
once it's in the hands of the post office. I asked the buyer to wait for
another week and let me know if it has not arrived. Well, a couple of weeks passed,
buyer informed me that it still has not arrived, which turned out to be the case.
So, I proceeded to file an official inquiry, which would then lead to insurance
claim, as far as I understand. This was in early February of this year.
As you know, USPS tends to take its time. So far, other than an official call
from USPS (that didn't contain any new info or update) from USPS, I've
received nothing from them so far.
Earlier today, I got an email from the buyer saying that he wanted to cancel
the order saying two months is enough...
So, my understanding (of Bricklink policy) is, a buyer cannot cancel an order
once it's been shipped. Isn't that the case?
On the other hand, it has definitely taken more than enough time than necessary,
so I certainly understand his frustration and actually wouldn't mind doing
that.
However, I DO have a couple of concerns:
1) Doing so without waiting for the result of the official inquiry will means
I will not be able to reimburse the buyer the full amount (including shipping
and VAT) without possibly incurring additional expense on my end for the shipping
charge and VAT (paid to USPS / Bulgarian customs).
2) If the package does arrive later, which will mean the end of the investigation
and no reimbursement will be issued from USPS, what is stopping the buyer (I'm
not saying he will do that for certain, but it is a possibility) to keep both
the LEGO AND the money and simply unregister from Paypal without paying a dime
for the "order" he placed?
What would you do, as a seller, in this situation? I want to be as fair and reasonable
to the buyer and as a seller as possible.
Sorry for the long post. But I'd appreciate any input from you if you have
made it thus far, especially if you have dealt with similar scenarios in your
experience as a seller here.
Thank you!
|
Just reading this SIT AND WAIT. If the buyer paid VIA Paypal which just reading
between the lines they have. Let them make the 1st move re a refund. There
a big reason WHY will go into this in a min.
Right NOW from your side keep on USPS and trying to find that package etc.
NOW back to pay pal. DO NOT REFUND the buyer. LET them come at you through
PAY PAL. for buyer protection. There logic to this and will see you NOT out of
pocket as long as you follow the steps and all bases are covered.
When you get the notice of the buyer claiming via pay pal. Reply to that and
mention the ITEM was a tracked item etc. Also in the reply tell them you want
to OPEN a seller protection case based on the ground the item has Been sent.
UNDER SELLER PROTECTION you are covered as long as you have entered the tracking
number on pay pal site and sent the item to the address that on the buyer paypal
account as the shipping address. To get seller protection all you have to do
is prove item was sent which you can via the tracking number. Paypal will cover
the full cost of that missing package. BUT you CAN NOT do anything till the
buyer comes at you via buyer protection. DO NOT REFUND or you will be out
of pocket...
|
Great advice! This is very helpful too!
I think I’ll try to convince him to be a bit more patient as suggested by others.
If that doesn’t work, I’ll fall back to this as plan B. Thank you!!
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | negative | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 17:09 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| It's been a few years since I did the research, but when I was looking at
shipping an expensive set overseas I found that USPS Priority International does
not track to the recipient.
This is important to factor in when selling stuff overseas because it means you
cannot satisfy Paypal's requirements for proof of delivery in a dispute.
As a matter of fact, USPS does not offer *any* way of shipping something that
does track all the way to the recipient. They get the item to the border, then
hand it off to the local PO. UPS, FedEx and DHL can track all the way to the
recipient, but they tend to be more expensive.
With this in mind, it *may* be the case that the tracking info you are looking
at does not mean that the package is sitting in NY. It may be that it's the
last place it was scanned and it is now in an office in the destination country.
Thank you
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 17:43 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, negative writes:
| | It's been a few years since I did the research, but when I was looking at
shipping an expensive set overseas I found that USPS Priority International does
not track to the recipient.
This is important to factor in when selling stuff overseas because it means you
cannot satisfy Paypal's requirements for proof of delivery in a dispute.
As a matter of fact, USPS does not offer *any* way of shipping something that
does track all the way to the recipient. They get the item to the border, then
hand it off to the local PO. UPS, FedEx and DHL can track all the way to the
recipient, but they tend to be more expensive.
With this in mind, it *may* be the case that the tracking info you are looking
at does not mean that the package is sitting in NY. It may be that it's the
last place it was scanned and it is now in an office in the destination country.
Thank you
|
Depends on the country. My orders to Canada and the UK usually show tracking
all the way to the final destination on USPS.com but France not so much. The
package is tracked all the way to the destination, but the info is not always
updated on USPS.com. OP says they've checked a few other tracking websites
and they all say the same thing so the package is most likely still in transit.
Still, multi-month shipping delays are not unheard of for international packages.
I do not think the tracking info has to come from USPS in order to provide proof
of delivery to PayPal.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | dlaw1_lego | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 17:51 | | Subject: | Re: Extreme Shipping Delays - Buyer wants Refund | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| | https://m.17track.net/en is pretty useful, it may show additional tracking updates |
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|
USA, Maryland
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
Australia, Victoria
Ireland, Kerry