|
 |
| | | Author: | brickerking  | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 09:23 | | Subject: | Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 267 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Bricks_NW_UK | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 10:02 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
I don’t have a problem with a neutral feedback but it should not count as a negative.
Neutral is zero so should be that and neither count as a positive or negative.
Bricklink management need to up their game and
1). Change the scoring as above
2). Recalculate all peoples percentages using positive as +1 and negative as
-1
3). Explain to people exactly what the guide lines for both neutral and negative.
Explaining what these mean and what their actions do to buyers and sellers.
4). Create a flag whereby it asks maybe three times are you sure you want to
leave this feedback
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 10:09 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Bricks_NW_UK writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
I don’t have a problem with a neutral feedback but it should not count as a negative.
Neutral is zero so should be that and neither count as a positive or negative.
Bricklink management need to up their game and
1). Change the scoring as above
2). Recalculate all peoples percentages using positive as +1 and negative as
-1
3). Explain to people exactly what the guide lines for both neutral and negative.
Explaining what these mean and what their actions do to buyers and sellers.
4). Create a flag whereby it asks maybe three times are you sure you want to
leave this feedback
|
Very good ideas!
Jen
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 10:32 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
|
Nobody reads ANYthing.
Some barely read English: there are 100s of different languages, and BrickLink
isn't Internationalized.
Please forget explaining what they should do; they miss it for any (sometimes
good) reason.
Alternatively, I proposed a 5 stars rating.
This is something they've more probably already seen on other websites; so
you won't have to explain anything.
This + nice colors like gray, red, green, gold, and they'll get it.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1328064
HTH
Sylvain
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 11:24 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
|
That should really be some people don't read anything.
And with that you highlight probably the big issue with feedback, if they are
not going to read feedback first and still place orders with stores with heavy
negatives (or neutrals) and then get a bad service, are those people going to
read about feedback leaving guidelines.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 11:50 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| |
That should really be some people don't read anything.
And with that you highlight probably the big issue with feedback, if they are
not going to read feedback first and still place orders with stores with heavy
negatives (or neutrals) and then get a bad service, are those people going to
read about feedback leaving guidelines.
|
Yep - then currently showing 96% score in a shop won't make them understand
it has recent problems, at least.
Instead showing 5 gray stars and only one highlighted may make them visually
understand better that 1 star on 5 is probably not the bestest score 
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:26 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, 1001bricks writes:
| | Yep - then currently showing 96% score in a shop won't make them understand
it has recent problems, at least.
|
If there are real problems, shouldn't that be marked as negative and not
neutral?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:59 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 16:03 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | In Feedback, 1001bricks writes:
| | Yep - then currently showing 96% score in a shop won't make them understand
it has recent problems, at least.
|
If there are real problems, shouldn't that be marked as negative and not
neutral?
|
That's the point 20 Negatives vont change much a ratio on a "big" seller.
Say 96% - but this may be a bad score.
But in the 0-5 stars I propose, this same seller would be usually noted 2 or
3 on 5 stars, rarely 5.
His final score would be 40% or 60% (or 2 or 3 stars), which would be very
different than the current 96% which appears "almost perfect".
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 16:17 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
That's the point 20 Negatives vont change much a ratio on a "big" seller.
Say 96% - but this may be a bad score.
But in the 0-5 stars I propose, this same seller would be usually noted 2 or
3 on 5 stars, rarely 5.
His final score would be 40% or 60% (or 2 or 3 stars), which would be very
different than the current 96% which appears "almost perfect".
|
But as, in your suggestion, all the old positives will be converted to 5-stars,
the big, old sellers will have an enormous advantage, a nice pillow to soften
their fall.
*Looks at your score* Oh, I see…. 
Just joking 
But history is always a problem when you change things.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 11:41 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
The more I think about this issue the less I understand what the purpose of Neutral
could possibly be.
"Postive' in feedback can denote a range of experiences, all the way from,
"No problems" to "Wow! Praise!" And everything in that range is positive.
Negative means something was wrong in an unacceptable way.
But neutral? What does it mean? Is it supposed to mean: "Positive, but I wish
to suggest the seller develop in a certain area?" Or does it mean "I can't
decide if my experience was negative or positive"
Based on that, I don't know that the use of "Neutral" feedback gives the
seller, the buyer, or the community any useful information. So why is it part
of a score?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 11:54 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | But neutral? What does it mean?
|
For many people, like recent buyer we talked about in Forum - Neutral means "Normal
OK" feedback, while Positive means praise or exceptionnal.
And sellers will complain, I *do* understand them.
And I always send an e-mail to people leaving Neutral asking them "What was the
problem, please let me fix it?" (in short).
Again - we've to change this; hence my proposal of a 5 stars rating, far
more obvious.
Sylvain
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 12:53 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, calebfishn writes:
| | […]
But neutral? What does it mean? Is it supposed to mean: "Positive, but I wish
to suggest the seller develop in a certain area?" Or does it mean "I can't
decide if my experience was negative or positive"
Based on that, I don't know that the use of "Neutral" feedback gives the
seller, the buyer, or the community any useful information. So why is it part
of a score?
|
“Never use a scale with an odd number of levels” (=no middle) is a rule I heard
about questionnaires.
I think the rationale is to force people to be either positive or negative (even
if not much).
Leave the possibility to not answer but no middle “I don’t know” possibility.
The 0-10 (or 1-10) scale everybody uses now for satisfaction survey irks me.
Especially as everything that’s not 10 is ground for a “what did you do to make
the customer unhappy?”
Otherwise, I agree with Jan_K https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1328243
and treat neutral as “not happy but not to the point of getting the pitchfork
out.”
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 12:08 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| If Neutral means: “not happy but not to the point of getting the pitchfork
| | out.”, then there are two levels of severity within the Negative Category, but only one level within the Positive Category.
|
I'm not sure why there needs to be two different types of negatives, when
buyers can leave comments explaining the nature of their complaint.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 12:22 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, calebfishn writes:
| | I'm not sure why there needs to be two different types of negatives, when
buyers can leave comments explaining the nature of their complaint.
|
The 80 characters are not enough to explain the complaints.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 13:40 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, WUIt writes:
| | In Feedback, calebfishn writes:
| | I'm not sure why there needs to be two different types of negatives, when
buyers can leave comments explaining the nature of their complaint.
|
The 80 characters are not enough to explain the complaints.
|
Sh02/02 Rv12/02 Miss:1x3001 WH, 2x3004 BK, 1x3626cpb0713a dmgd, plz ref!!!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Bricks_NW_UK | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 13:55 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | But neutral? What does it mean? Is it supposed to mean: "Positive, but I wish
to suggest the seller develop in a certain area?" Or does it mean "I can't
decide if my experience was negative or positive"
Based on that, I don't know that the use of "Neutral" feedback gives the
seller, the buyer, or the community any useful information. So why is it part
of a score?
|
This is my point - a neutral should be of no value, neither. a plus or minus.
If it is minus, surely is then a negative score.??
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 14:22 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Bricks_NW_UK writes:
| | | | But neutral? What does it mean? Is it supposed to mean: "Positive, but I wish
to suggest the seller develop in a certain area?" Or does it mean "I can't
decide if my experience was negative or positive"
Based on that, I don't know that the use of "Neutral" feedback gives the
seller, the buyer, or the community any useful information. So why is it part
of a score?
|
This is my point - a neutral should be of no value, neither. a plus or minus.
If it is minus, surely is then a negative score.??
|
It isn't a minus and it is not a positive. But it is still feedback that
the buyer has left.
% praise is defined as 100x (praise feedback) / (all feedback).
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:56 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:59 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | % praise is defined as 100x (praise feedback) / (all feedback).
|
That formula, and the prominence of a seller's positive feedback score, is
what discourages me from ever giving a neutral feedback.
No feedback = True neutral
Neutral feedback [less-than sign] True neutral
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:28 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, calebfishn writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
The more I think about this issue the less I understand what the purpose of Neutral
could possibly be.
"Postive' in feedback can denote a range of experiences, all the way from,
"No problems" to "Wow! Praise!" And everything in that range is positive.
Negative means something was wrong in an unacceptable way.
But neutral? What does it mean? Is it supposed to mean: "Positive, but I wish
to suggest the seller develop in a certain area?" Or does it mean "I can't
decide if my experience was negative or positive"
Based on that, I don't know that the use of "Neutral" feedback gives the
seller, the buyer, or the community any useful information. So why is it part
of a score?
|
Insightful!
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 12:15 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | What do you as a buyer or seller define neutral feedback as?
What are some reasons you would leave neutral feedback?
|
As a seller, I take a neutral FB as: "damn, something went wrong" - and if I
wasn't aware of that risk before, I make sure the buyer lets me know. After
I fixed it (in many cases, this IS possible), I might decide to ask the buyer
to change the FB if I feel the buyer missed a chance to clarify an issue before
leaving FB.
As a buyer, I leave neutral FB as a "soft negative" - certainly not for a "normal
OK" transaction. If the order had issues and the seller wasn't willing or
able to fix it (or was very slow in communication), I consider a non-positive
FB. It will not be left before at least three attempts to get in touch with the
seller and find a solution.
It will be a negative FB only if the seller leaves me with a substantial loss
or doesn't show any will to fix an issue clearly caused by him.
I tend to spend much time on fixing issues, even if caused by the other party.
This often pays out in the end - but sometimes, it's waste of time, though.
Jan
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Bricks_NW_UK | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 13:57 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| I
| | As a buyer, I leave neutral FB as a "soft negative" - certainly not for a "normal
OK" transaction. If the order had issues and the seller wasn't willing or
able to fix it (or was very slow in communication), I consider a non-positive
FB. It will not be left before at least three attempts to get in touch with the
seller and find a solution.
|
Again, whether a soft negative or hard negative this is a `NEGATIVE , not a neutral.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:31 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Jan_K writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | What do you as a buyer or seller define neutral feedback as?
What are some reasons you would leave neutral feedback?
|
As a seller, I take a neutral FB as: "damn, something went wrong" - and if I
wasn't aware of that risk before, I make sure the buyer lets me know. After
I fixed it (in many cases, this IS possible), I might decide to ask the buyer
to change the FB if I feel the buyer missed a chance to clarify an issue before
leaving FB.
As a buyer, I leave neutral FB as a "soft negative" - certainly not for a "normal
OK" transaction. If the order had issues and the seller wasn't willing or
able to fix it (or was very slow in communication), I consider a non-positive
FB. It will not be left before at least three attempts to get in touch with the
seller and find a solution.
It will be a negative FB only if the seller leaves me with a substantial loss
or doesn't show any will to fix an issue clearly caused by him.
I tend to spend much time on fixing issues, even if caused by the other party.
This often pays out in the end - but sometimes, it's waste of time, though.
Jan
|
Good explanation - you make a good case for neutral.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| When first arriving at BrickLink, I was confused about the irrationally high
"Praise"-ratings stores had. It went beyond my comprehension since 70% of all
feedback responses should be neutral, 25% positive, and 5% negative. Anything
different means that the normal curve + human optimism and disinterest of contributing
feedback would not apply to this case.
Upon completing my first five orders, I decided to give Praise for the two sellers
that clearly outperformed the other three sellers in terms of quality. Still
being confused, I didn't give any other feedback.
Then came a very negative surprise in one of the deliveries and I decided to
give Neutral. It was something someone else likely could live with and the fix
was simple albeit laborious and I didn't need to involve the seller to get
it done. At the time, I had absolutely no clue of what it might mean for the
seller. The seller retaliated with a Neutral feedback and a harsh comment. I
didn't understand why. I decided to let go and not worry about it.
Based on the comments that I received with seller "Praising" me directly after
payment, I realized that this is not about Praise. The positive score is only
about successful completion of the order without any consideration for quality.
So I gave green feedback to most of my sellers. There were cases where I really
didn't want to give a green score because the negatives outnumbered the positives.
Yet, the transaction completed so I was forced to give green feedback. At least
I tried to write constructive feedback in the textual part. The things I was
unhappy about were things the seller could not fix after the fact so any amount
of communication would not fix it.
In the present way of using feedback, Neutral has no meaning, Praise = completed,
and Complaint = NPB/NRS. However, it takes too much time to learn the ropes,
so there will be a constant flux of newbies falling for the same trap.
I wish there were a way to signal the seller that a) I was positively surprised
by something, b) the transaction completed within normal/expected boundaries,
and c) the transaction was not smooth sailing or I was disappointed about some
minor thing.
I would strongly prefer using "Neutral" to mean that the transaction has completed
without upping or downing my mood. It would allow me and other buyers to encourage
sellers with great service and signal those with substandard service to improve
their service.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Bricks_NW_UK | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 14:01 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| I
| | I would strongly prefer using "Neutral" to mean that the transaction has completed
without upping or downing my mood. It would allow me and other buyers to encourage
sellers with great service and signal those with substandard service to improve
their service.
|
In many cases buyers not leaving feedback is effectively neutral. But once again
neutral should have no point value. If you want to leave a harsh review then
this is a negative and is how it should be. If it is, well I got my order, and
it was all, there, but I am not wowed, then this surely is a neutral, but the
seller has done nothing wrong, just not wowed the buyer. In this case why should
the seller be hit in his feedback?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:38 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 17 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Bricks_NW_UK writes:
| | In many cases buyers not leaving feedback is effectively neutral. But once again
neutral should have no point value. If you want to leave a harsh review then
this is a negative and is how it should be. If it is, well I got my order, and
it was all, there, but I am not wowed, then this surely is a neutral, but the
seller has done nothing wrong, just not wowed the buyer. In this case why should
the seller be hit in his feedback?
|
Yes, you just verbalized how I give neutral feedback. If I don't want to
add to a store's positive feedback score because I'm not 100% hyped about
the transaction, yet I don't want retaliation, I just don't leave feedback
and ignore BL's constant nagging to leave feedback.
This leads me to believe people like us would leave more neutral feedbacks if
there wasn't a penalty - which would add value to future potential buyers
and sellers who review feedback scores.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:34 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, WUIt writes:
| | I would strongly prefer using "Neutral" to mean that the transaction has completed
without upping or downing my mood. It would allow me and other buyers to encourage
sellers with great service and signal those with substandard service to improve
their service.
|
That is the way BL pictures neutral on their help page for feedback, but then
they penalize a user's positive feedback score anyway, so it's not really
neutral.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:39 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | That is the way BL pictures neutral on their help page for feedback, but then
they penalize a user's positive feedback score anyway, so it's not really
neutral.
|
Only the seller's feedback score in penalized for a neutral, and then
only the "% Praise" score. For a buyer neutral feedback doesn't do anything
except exist, which I guess is its true purpose.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:42 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, peregrinator writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | That is the way BL pictures neutral on their help page for feedback, but then
they penalize a user's positive feedback score anyway, so it's not really
neutral.
|
Only the seller's feedback score in penalized for a neutral, and then
only the "% Praise" score. For a buyer neutral feedback doesn't do anything
except exist, which I guess is its true purpose.
|
Right, but it just so happens that the seller's praise score is the most
visible and prominent metric that BL displays for each store. It's the large
number at the top right of each store's page. I don't think we can diminish
its importance, even if it's more of perceived importance.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 17:13 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | In Feedback, peregrinator writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | That is the way BL pictures neutral on their help page for feedback, but then
they penalize a user's positive feedback score anyway, so it's not really
neutral.
|
Only the seller's feedback score in penalized for a neutral, and then
only the "% Praise" score. For a buyer neutral feedback doesn't do anything
except exist, which I guess is its true purpose.
|
Right, but it just so happens that the seller's praise score is the most
visible and prominent metric that BL displays for each store. It's the large
number at the top right of each store's page. I don't think we can diminish
its importance, even if it's more of perceived importance.
|
It should be an important flag for a buyer to see. And that is probably why they
introduced it. It is a warning to check feedback to see if there is anything
the seller repeatedly does that may cause an issue for the buyer.
Before the percentage score was there, there was no quick way of telling if a
seller with 1000 feedback was good or bad without looking at the feedback page.
It could be 1000 positives, or 1200 positives with 200 negatives. Whereas 100%
vs 85.71% makes it clear the buyer should check the feedback deeper before buying.
Take the case of a seller having 90 positive feedback and nothing else. Their
score is 90 and 100% praise.
And another seller that has 90 positive feedback but also 10 neutrals as they
repeatedly make silly small mistakes such as shipping the wrong colours or parts
for a small number of lots in an order and 10 people have called them out for
by leaving neutrals. Not a big deal but annoying small value mistakes.
Should bricklink say this seller has 90 feedback, 100% praise or should they
say it is 90 feedback, 90% praise. If bricklink claimed it was 100% praise then
there is no warning flag to the buyer to take a look at the feedback. Worse still,
they are claiming the seller only has positive feedback when that is not true.
That is worse than not showing the percentage at all, as it gives a false sense
of security, telling a buyer the seller has 100% praise. The buyer would rightly
have a complaint against bricklink for falsely claiming the seller had 100% praise
when they do jot. If they did that then people woukd soon realise that bricklink
is not trustworthy as it falsifies the percentages to make sellers look better
and having 100% is meaningless - if a seller has 100% you need to check their
detailed feedback just to see if that is true.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hypertrophy | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 13:09 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| |
Before the percentage score was there, there was no quick way of telling if a
seller with 1000 feedback was good or bad without looking at the feedback page.
It could be 1000 positives, or 1200 positives with 200 negatives. Whereas 100%
vs 85.71% makes it clear the buyer should check the feedback deeper before buying.
|
If my memory is correct, House of Logos was the poster child for BL putting the
percentage system into place. A store that did a ton of orders, had a large feedback
number and was one of the absolute worst stores to ever exist here. Many new
buyers saw the number of feedback and didn't dig into the real story, ridiculously
slow service and constant refunding to avoid NSS. They made BL look bad which
made everyone look bad.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 13:44 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | If my memory is correct, House of Logos was the poster child for BL putting the
percentage system into place. A store that did a ton of orders, had a large feedback
number and was one of the absolute worst stores to ever exist here.
|
Ohhh Alisha?
Yep, that was a weird period.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 16:08 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Hypertrophy writes:
| | In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| |
Before the percentage score was there, there was no quick way of telling if a
seller with 1000 feedback was good or bad without looking at the feedback page.
It could be 1000 positives, or 1200 positives with 200 negatives. Whereas 100%
vs 85.71% makes it clear the buyer should check the feedback deeper before buying.
|
If my memory is correct, House of Logos was the poster child for BL putting the
percentage system into place. A store that did a ton of orders, had a large feedback
number and was one of the absolute worst stores to ever exist here. Many new
buyers saw the number of feedback and didn't dig into the real story, ridiculously
slow service and constant refunding to avoid NSS. They made BL look bad which
made everyone look bad.
|
You may well be right. A large number appears decent feedback if you rely only
on a single number. Similarly 100% isn't necessarily great by itself, as
it could be just one sale. But pair the two and at least there is a warning system
to look at the feedback first.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 13:22 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | Take the case of a seller having 90 positive feedback and nothing else. Their
score is 90 and 100% praise.
And another seller that has 90 positive feedback but also 10 neutrals as they
repeatedly make silly small mistakes such as shipping the wrong colours or parts
for a small number of lots in an order and 10 people have called them out for
by leaving neutrals. Not a big deal but annoying small value mistakes.
Should bricklink say this seller has 90 feedback, 100% praise or should they
say it is 90 feedback, 90% praise. If bricklink claimed it was 100% praise then
there is no warning flag to the buyer to take a look at the feedback. Worse still,
they are claiming the seller only has positive feedback when that is not true.
That is worse than not showing the percentage at all, as it gives a false sense
of security, telling a buyer the seller has 100% praise. The buyer would rightly
have a complaint against bricklink for falsely claiming the seller had 100% praise
when they do not.
|
Great example! It should definitely be 90% praise and 0% complaints.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:59 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, peregrinator writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | That is the way BL pictures neutral on their help page for feedback, but then
they penalize a user's positive feedback score anyway, so it's not really
neutral.
|
Only the seller's feedback score in penalized for a neutral, and then
only the "% Praise" score. For a buyer neutral feedback doesn't do anything
except exist, which I guess is its true purpose.
|
I gotta say, you're impressive. The thought processes in many of your inputs,
that is. There, I've said it. I won't embarrass you ever again, by repeating
it
As long as I've been fighting to "neutralize the neutral" here
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=868453 I've never considered, nor
recall hearing this salient point in the discussion.
Thanks!
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | pitz8008 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 15:17 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
I really think everybody is overanalyzing this feedback thing wayyyyyyy too much.
Everyone (ok, not everyone for those who like to play the semantics game, but
a vast vast majority) knows that neutral feedback is harmful. Not just on bricklink
but across every internet fedback platform. Ebay has the same system of feedback.
Positive, neutral, and negative. Nobody honestly leaves a neutral feedback and
doesn't know that it is harmful to a seller's reputation. "Oh neutral
just meant I had no problems with the order". I find it hard to believe that
a person leaving feedback leaves a neutral in that situation. I personally think
Bricklink's feedback operation is the best on the internet. I think the admins
should take more time in removing BS feedback but other than that I think it's
good to go.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 03:28 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, pitz8008 writes:
| | Everyone (ok, not everyone for those who like to play the semantics game, but
a vast vast majority) knows that neutral feedback is harmful.
|
This is not true. The vast majority of internet users have never used Ebay or
BrickLink and has thus not come in contact with this type of feedback system.
| | Nobody honestly leaves a neutral feedback and
doesn't know that it is harmful to a seller's reputation. "Oh neutral
just meant I had no problems with the order". I find it hard to believe that
a person leaving feedback leaves a neutral in that situation.
|
The colors (green, yellow, and red), the symbols (up triangle, box, down triangle)
and the text (Positive, Neutral, and Negative) give strong indication that green
is something above and beyond what would be considered average - one really praises
this experience above all other experiences and want to improve the sellers rating.
The big difference in behavior come from cultural background. People from cultures
giving monetary tips as an important part of the system behave differently than
people from a culture where one does not give anything but a verbal thank you
as one leaves the establishment. Keep in mind that the vast majority of people
are in the second category.
| | I personally think
Bricklink's feedback operation is the best on the internet. I think the admins
should take more time in removing BS feedback but other than that I think it's
good to go.
|
The minimum correction would be to change the colors, symbols, and wording to
reflect what is truly meant.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 17:25 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
A way to slam someone and not feel too guilty about it.
John P
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 18:27 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legoman77 writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
A way to slam someone and not feel too guilty about it.
John P
|
MOO HA HA HA HA [clasps hand together]
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | aboyer | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 21:40 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
Sometimes you place an order, everything comes neatly packed, great condition,
great prices, couldn't be happier.
Sometimes things are a bit dirty, not very well packed, a few pieces wrong or
missing. Contact the seller, seller apologies profusely, sends you the missing
pieces, or refunds the difference.
The first case is Positive, sure, but the second? I would say Positive based
on how everyone else uses feedback on BL, but it's not in the same class
as the first store. Not Negative - they corrected the issues. But also not A+.
Seems like a good use for a Neutral, or 4/5 stars, or B- or something.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 21:56 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, aboyer writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
Sometimes you place an order, everything comes neatly packed, great condition,
great prices, couldn't be happier.
Sometimes things are a bit dirty, not very well packed, a few pieces wrong or
missing. Contact the seller, seller apologies profusely, sends you the missing
pieces, or refunds the difference.
The first case is Positive, sure, but the second? I would say Positive based
on how everyone else uses feedback on BL, but it's not in the same class
as the first store. Not Negative - they corrected the issues. But also not A+.
Seems like a good use for a Neutral, or 4/5 stars, or B- or something.
|
Both in my view would be positive. Sure, the second isn’t as desired as the first.
But if the seller apologized and the resolved, that’s good enough for me.
A neutral would be like missing a few pieces and then no reply or slow reply
from seller when contacted. Even then, I’d usually elect a non-feedback in this
situation.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 03:34 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
|
Here is a list of cases that may warrant Neutral to separate the great stores
from the average:
Package broke during transport. - Take picture and count parts. Contact seller
with pictures for insurance if any part missing or damaged.
Package sliced or has holes. - Take picture and count parts. Contact seller
if any part missing or damaged.
Package dented, compressed, or otherwise reshaped. - Take picture and inspect
physical condition of parts. Contact seller if any part physically damaged.
Content was too free to move around within the package during transport - resulting
in scratches.
Package contained items (other than very large items) not in bags.
Bags opened during transport.
Seller used too fragile bags.
Seller used too small bag.
Seller used too large bag.
Items glued to cardboard or other parts with tape.
Seller didn't pack by color - resulting in color transfer.
Package contained wrong number of parts. -- Contact seller unless you can
live with it.
Package contained wrong parts. -- Contact seller.
Package contained wrong mold type. -- Contact seller unless you can live
with it.
New pieces were dirty.
Used pieces were too dirty or were not washed/dried properly.
Used pieces had color issues or too faded print. -- Contact seller unless
you can live with it.
Parts reek of fragrance.
Part contained sticker or print that wasn't in the description or picture.
-- Contact seller unless you can live with it.
Buyer has to ask for payment (e.g. IBAN) information.
The seller's stock was not up to date and some items had to be refunded.
The seller sent money within the package.
The seller included no information of the sender anywhere in or on the package.
The order remained in Pending status for more than a week.
Unusually slow shipment for country, season, package size, and type of transport).
Checkout didn't contain the same options as the terms&conditions shipment
and payment sections.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 04:35 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
If I focus not necessarily on my opinion but purely on the way the website interface
is designed, I would say that neutral or negative is any message that you want
future users to read before ordering (in other words, warnings).
A positive feedback will immediately disappear in the long list of positives
that nobody will ever read (its only effect is a contribution to the score),
while negatives and neutrals stick around, because their lists are much shorter
and their scores draw attention and curiosity because they are low numbers.
(The fact that negatives substract the score by one and that neutrals don't
change the score is just silly and has no meaning. Even if they would add +10
to the score, the fact they stick around in the feedback profile is much more
significant, so their 'punishing' effect remains the same.)
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 07:41 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Teup writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
If I focus not necessarily on my opinion but purely on the way the website interface
is designed, I would say that neutral or negative is any message that you want
future users to read before ordering (in other words, warnings).
A positive feedback will immediately disappear in the long list of positives
that nobody will ever read (its only effect is a contribution to the score),
while negatives and neutrals stick around, because their lists are much shorter
and their scores draw attention and curiosity because they are low numbers.
(The fact that negatives substract the score by one and that neutrals don't
change the score is just silly and has no meaning. Even if they would add +10
to the score, the fact they stick around in the feedback profile is much more
significant, so their 'punishing' effect remains the same.)
|
I agree I never pay attention to percentage scores as while every sellers score
remains in the upper 90's it doesn't really tell you a great deal. Whereas
actual feedback where I see a high percentage of Neutrals actually tells you
a lot and sometimes it tells you more about a seller than the odd negative(even
the best of us with good intentions can run into a difficult buyer or unfortunate
circumstance and be landed with a negative) but neutral feedbacks usually represent
problems of their own such as missing or incorrect parts being sent and general
lack of care in some form or another
Neutral to me = Minor issues, Transaction okay but could do better!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 11:29 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | I agree I never pay attention to percentage scores as while every sellers score
remains in the upper 90's it doesn't really tell you a great deal. Whereas
actual feedback where I see a high percentage of Neutrals actually tells you
a lot and sometimes it tells you more about a seller than the odd negative(even
the best of us with good intentions can run into a difficult buyer or unfortunate
circumstance and be landed with a negative) but neutral feedbacks usually represent
problems of their own such as missing or incorrect parts being sent and general
lack of care in some form or another
Neutral to me = Minor issues, Transaction okay but could do better!
|
Missing or incorrect parts that are not corrected after repeated attempts
of communication are HUGE NEGATIVES! There should be a separate function for
such cases (Non-responsive seller or something) like there is a function for
buyers that do not pay.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 12:37 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, WUIt writes:
| | In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | I agree I never pay attention to percentage scores as while every sellers score
remains in the upper 90's it doesn't really tell you a great deal. Whereas
actual feedback where I see a high percentage of Neutrals actually tells you
a lot and sometimes it tells you more about a seller than the odd negative(even
the best of us with good intentions can run into a difficult buyer or unfortunate
circumstance and be landed with a negative) but neutral feedbacks usually represent
problems of their own such as missing or incorrect parts being sent and general
lack of care in some form or another
Neutral to me = Minor issues, Transaction okay but could do better!
|
Missing or incorrect parts that are not corrected after repeated attempts
of communication are HUGE NEGATIVES! There should be a separate function for
such cases (Non-responsive seller or something) like there is a function for
buyers that do not pay.
|
Negatives well yes maybe, though the point I was making was that even if issues
are eventually corrected people may still feel inclined to leave Neutral if they
feel inconvenienced enough and/or an overall lack of care has been taken with
their order particularly if the seller is slow to respond and fix issues with
any sense of urgency!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 12:58 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, infinibrix writes:
| | Negatives well yes maybe, though the point I was making was that even if issues
are eventually corrected people may still feel inclined to leave Neutral if they
feel inconvenienced enough and/or an overall lack of care has been taken with
their order particularly if the seller is slow to respond and fix issues with
any sense of urgency!
|
Agreed. The ideal case for Neutrals would be to give such information about the
seller. Unfortunately, the present expectation seems to be that one should give
Positive no matter if one was inconvenienced or not as long as the issue was
eventually resolved to any level of sufficiency. Currently there is no way to
signal less-than-ideal service without invoking the wrath of the seller.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 12:50 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, WUIt writes
| | […]
Missing or incorrect parts that are not corrected after repeated attempts
of communication are HUGE NEGATIVES! There should be a separate function for
such cases (Non-responsive seller or something) like there is a function for
buyers that do not pay.
|
It’s called NSS.
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=110
(Not shipping everything is one of the possible motives.)
(Non-responsive seller/NRS also exists but it’s for when the order isn’t paid
yet.)
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 09:04 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Teup writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't define what neutral feedback means on the feedback help
page (https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248). What do you as a buyer
or seller define neutral feedback as? What are some reasons you would leave neutral
feedback?
I don't currently have a use case for using neutral, so I'm hoping on
learning from your replies.
|
If I focus not necessarily on my opinion but purely on the way the website interface
is designed, I would say that neutral or negative is any message that you want
future users to read before ordering (in other words, warnings).
A positive feedback will immediately disappear in the long list of positives
that nobody will ever read (its only effect is a contribution to the score),
while negatives and neutrals stick around, because their lists are much shorter
and their scores draw attention and curiosity because they are low numbers.
(The fact that negatives substract the score by one and that neutrals don't
change the score is just silly and has no meaning. Even if they would add +10
to the score, the fact they stick around in the feedback profile is much more
significant, so their 'punishing' effect remains the same.)
|
I agree with this but I think I would feel more compelled to leave neutral feedback
if the neutral feedback I received in retaliation didn't negatively affect
my store's positive feedback rating. Wouldn't every seller feel more
comfortable giving neutral feedback if that was the case? I think it would result
in many more honest neutral feedbacks which would be helpful to everyone looking
at a user's feedback page.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 09:20 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | (The fact that negatives substract the score by one and that neutrals don't
change the score is just silly and has no meaning. Even if they would add +10
to the score, the fact they stick around in the feedback profile is much more
significant, so their 'punishing' effect remains the same.)
|
Punishing implies that the seller is somehow punished for having a neutral. When
clearly this is not the case as buyers still buy from stores that had a single
neutral last week, or one three years ago and loads of positives since. In fact,
buyers still buy from stores that have many negatives. I know in the past I have
bought from one big store that was running at about 97% at the time I ordered.
It was good to get the warning, but I used common sense to decide that even if
the worst of the feedback left by others had come true I would not be out of
pocket and would have only wasted my time (and not got some decent parts I was
after at such a low price).
If buyers still buy from stores after being made aware of warnings, it is not
exactly a punishment for the store. The only punishment is to the seller's
ego, no longer being 100% perfect. And I think that more than any real damage
to a store is the root cause of the complaints. The feeling of not being seen
to be absolutely perfect, rather than buyers being put off from buying from a
store. Obviously that is easy for me to say, as I am still 100% perfect (at least
according to my feedback) but I have a plan to deal with it when I get a non-positive.
I will simply reply to it, then ignore it, and I will stoplist the buyer leaving
it so they can no longer buy from me. Not being able to buy from a seller (especially
if they have items that the buyer wants at a decent price) is probably a worse
punishment than a single neutral for a store that will not put off buyers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 09:38 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | The only punishment is to the seller's
ego, no longer being 100% perfect. And I think that more than any real damage
to a store is the root cause of the complaints. The feeling of not being seen
to be absolutely perfect, rather than buyers being put off from buying from a
store.
|
This is correct and also not trivial. I'm no psychologist, but avoiding a
bruised ego has been and always will be a large motivation for action or inaction.
So to say that we must rise above that doesn't work in a large community
like BL. Instead the tools we are given to use must take this human nature into
account and work with the egos, not against them.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 15:42 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | | | (The fact that negatives substract the score by one and that neutrals don't
change the score is just silly and has no meaning. Even if they would add +10
to the score, the fact they stick around in the feedback profile is much more
significant, so their 'punishing' effect remains the same.)
|
Punishing implies that the seller is somehow punished for having a neutral. When
clearly this is not the case as buyers still buy from stores that had a single
neutral last week, or one three years ago and loads of positives since. In fact,
buyers still buy from stores that have many negatives. I know in the past I have
bought from one big store that was running at about 97% at the time I ordered.
It was good to get the warning, but I used common sense to decide that even if
the worst of the feedback left by others had come true I would not be out of
pocket and would have only wasted my time (and not got some decent parts I was
after at such a low price).
If buyers still buy from stores after being made aware of warnings, it is not
exactly a punishment for the store. The only punishment is to the seller's
ego, no longer being 100% perfect. And I think that more than any real damage
to a store is the root cause of the complaints. The feeling of not being seen
to be absolutely perfect, rather than buyers being put off from buying from a
store. Obviously that is easy for me to say, as I am still 100% perfect (at least
according to my feedback) but I have a plan to deal with it when I get a non-positive.
I will simply reply to it, then ignore it, and I will stoplist the buyer leaving
it so they can no longer buy from me. Not being able to buy from a seller (especially
if they have items that the buyer wants at a decent price) is probably a worse
punishment than a single neutral for a store that will not put off buyers.
|
We don't really have the numbers of course, but I do think that does depend
on what's written. If someone posts that the seller behaved super weird or
that the parts were extremely dirty, I do think that can put off buyers. You're
right though that in general a neutral probably doesn't have much effect,
but the fact is, the way the interface is designed makes it very easy to read
the neutral and negative feedback messages. And since it's 'forever',
it really gives what's written there a lot of weight.
Much more than their numerical effect, at least. The fact that a negative feedback
substracts 1 from the score is just plain silly, and IMO is a good illustration
that not too much thought went into the system. You are probably right that neutrals/negatives
are not the end of the world as much as sellers often feel it to be, but I do
think in reality, a negative may be worth -100 or even more. In fact I'm
unsure if I'm rather set back -1000 or get 1 negative
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 16:03 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | We don't really have the numbers of course, but I do think that does depend
on what's written. If someone posts that the seller behaved super weird or
that the parts were extremely dirty, I do think that can put off buyers. You're
right though that in general a neutral probably doesn't have much effect,
but the fact is, the way the interface is designed makes it very easy to read
the neutral and negative feedback messages. And since it's 'forever',
it really gives what's written there a lot of weight.
Much more than their numerical effect, at least. The fact that a negative feedback
substracts 1 from the score is just plain silly, and IMO is a good illustration
that not too much thought went into the system. You are probably right that neutrals/negatives
are not the end of the world as much as sellers often feel it to be, but I do
think in reality, a negative may be worth -100 or even more. In fact I'm
unsure if I'm rather set back -1000 or get 1 negative
|
If a buyer reads one neutral (or even negative) out of 100s or 1000s of positives
and believes that one over all the rest and decides not to purchase because of
it, the store is probably better off without that buyer. There are plenty of
sensible buyers out there too.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 16:13 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | | | We don't really have the numbers of course, but I do think that does depend
on what's written. If someone posts that the seller behaved super weird or
that the parts were extremely dirty, I do think that can put off buyers. You're
right though that in general a neutral probably doesn't have much effect,
but the fact is, the way the interface is designed makes it very easy to read
the neutral and negative feedback messages. And since it's 'forever',
it really gives what's written there a lot of weight.
Much more than their numerical effect, at least. The fact that a negative feedback
substracts 1 from the score is just plain silly, and IMO is a good illustration
that not too much thought went into the system. You are probably right that neutrals/negatives
are not the end of the world as much as sellers often feel it to be, but I do
think in reality, a negative may be worth -100 or even more. In fact I'm
unsure if I'm rather set back -1000 or get 1 negative
|
If a buyer reads one neutral (or even negative) out of 100s or 1000s of positives
and believes that one over all the rest and decides not to purchase because of
it, the store is probably better off without that buyer. There are plenty of
sensible buyers out there too.
|
Well, consider there are a few stores selling a part at a good price. You check
the first one and it has a zillion positive but only one neutral or negative,
and that is exactly about your situation. For example, the store is mostly about
new parts, but you're after one particular used part they have and someone
wrote the used parts smelled horrible and had grime on them. Or shipping to your
particular country took months. All things equal, that might just be the push
you need to check out if the next store could be any better.
So yes, score-wise a neutral is irrelevant - everything over 90% is probably
all good. Nobody in their right mind would think "oh no, 2000 positive and 5
neutral, run!!". But the message that's written there sticks around forever,
it's just 1 click away when checking feedback. You're right it won't
have any dramatic effects, but whatever warning you as a buyer leave there can
have *some* effect. At least more than 100 positives that end up pretty much
invisible and hardly visually change the feedback score if it's already in
the thousands.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 17, 2022 16:29 | | Subject: | Re: Define Neutral Feedback | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Teup writes:
| | In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | | | We don't really have the numbers of course, but I do think that does depend
on what's written. If someone posts that the seller behaved super weird or
that the parts were extremely dirty, I do think that can put off buyers. You're
right though that in general a neutral probably doesn't have much effect,
but the fact is, the way the interface is designed makes it very easy to read
the neutral and negative feedback messages. And since it's 'forever',
it really gives what's written there a lot of weight.
Much more than their numerical effect, at least. The fact that a negative feedback
substracts 1 from the score is just plain silly, and IMO is a good illustration
that not too much thought went into the system. You are probably right that neutrals/negatives
are not the end of the world as much as sellers often feel it to be, but I do
think in reality, a negative may be worth -100 or even more. In fact I'm
unsure if I'm rather set back -1000 or get 1 negative
|
If a buyer reads one neutral (or even negative) out of 100s or 1000s of positives
and believes that one over all the rest and decides not to purchase because of
it, the store is probably better off without that buyer. There are plenty of
sensible buyers out there too.
|
Well, consider there are a few stores selling a part at a good price. You check
the first one and it has a zillion positive but only one neutral or negative,
and that is exactly about your situation. For example, the store is mostly about
new parts, but you're after one particular used part they have and someone
wrote the used parts smelled horrible and had grime on them. Or shipping to your
particular country took months. All things equal, that might just be the push
you need to check out if the next store could be any better.
So yes, score-wise a neutral is irrelevant - everything over 90% is probably
all good. Nobody in their right mind would think "oh no, 2000 positive and 5
neutral, run!!". But the message that's written there sticks around forever,
it's just 1 click away when checking feedback. You're right it won't
have any dramatic effects, but whatever warning you as a buyer leave there can
have *some* effect. At least more than 100 positives that end up pretty much
invisible and hardly visually change the feedback score if it's already in
the thousands.
|
Yes, it may be enough for the buyer to go elsewhere. But a store doing zillions
of orders probably won't notice the difference if that buyer goes elsewhere.
I don't know how others do it, but if I am going to believe one user over
hundreds of others I'd also check the other feedback they leave. If they
have a history of leaving neutrals or negs, I'd be less likely to believe
them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Canada, Alberta
United Kingdom, England
USA, Illinois
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
Finland, Uusimaa
Germany, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Netherlands, Utrecht