|
 |
| | | Author: | CanadaFirst  | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 18:30 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 550 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Brick_Qc | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:00 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 147 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
Got one too...
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Golden009 | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 12:23 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Brick_Qc writes:
| | In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
Got one too...
|
Hi there. I just noticed you have put me on a stoplist. Any chance you might
re-consider this position given the outcome of this forum?
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | CanadaFirst | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:22 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 118 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Update:
The buyer appears to have calmed down and is now responding to messages, perhaps
this can be resolved but we would still recommend sellers be careful as his feedbacks
left are problematic to say the least.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Golden009 | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:34 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 160 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Woa easy there. Not everyone on this site is a bricklink expert. If getting threatening
emails because of a "neutral" review is part of the protocol, then this site
has issues. I am completely okay changing a review after an order has been corrected,
but certainly not before. The attitude amongst some of the sellers is very concerning.
Put yourselves in the shoes of someone starting out on here and take a chill
pill.
In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:48 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 99 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | Woa easy there. Not everyone on this site is a bricklink expert.
|
No problemo amigo.
| | If getting threatening
emails because of a "neutral" review is part of the protocol, then this site
has issues. I am completely okay changing a review after an order has been corrected,
but certainly not before. The attitude amongst some of the sellers is very concerning.
Put yourselves in the shoes of someone starting out on here and take a chill
pill.
|
Still - when giving feedback there is Positive, Negative (and in between).
Neutral is really non-Positive if you wish - and it doesn't count as a Positive.
Many sellers might not appreciate and ask "What was the problem?" (more or less
kindly  but please understand them).
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:48 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | Woa easy there. Not everyone on this site is a bricklink expert. If getting threatening
emails because of a "neutral" review is part of the protocol, then this site
has issues. I am completely okay changing a review after an order has been corrected,
but certainly not before. The attitude amongst some of the sellers is very concerning.
Put yourselves in the shoes of someone starting out on here and take a chill
pill.
In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
|
I found his his post ok and helpful to sellers here. I do not see where he was
all that threatening. Then again I am from Detroit and there are real threatening
things there. It does not take an expert when leaving feedback or being a person
who enjoys handing out bad feedback. It is universal since eBay and etsy and
Amazon also use feedback. Give the OP a break, he was venting and also trying
to be helpful to others.
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | goldknight | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 20:37 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legoman77 writes:
| | In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | Woa easy there. Not everyone on this site is a bricklink expert. If getting threatening
emails because of a "neutral" review is part of the protocol, then this site
has issues. I am completely okay changing a review after an order has been corrected,
but certainly not before. The attitude amongst some of the sellers is very concerning.
Put yourselves in the shoes of someone starting out on here and take a chill
pill.
In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
|
I found his his post ok and helpful to sellers here. I do not see where he was
all that threatening. Then again I am from Detroit and there are real threatening
things there. It does not take an expert when leaving feedback or being a person
who enjoys handing out bad feedback. It is universal since eBay and etsy and
Amazon also use feedback. Give the OP a break, he was venting and also trying
to be helpful to others.
John P
|
John—I thought you mentioned you were from the sands of Tatooine (or maybe that’s
where you are now)
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 21:47 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, goldknight writes:
Pl
| |
John—I thought you mentioned you were from the sands of Tatooine (or maybe that’s
where you are now)
|
No, I grew up in Detroit and was drafted into the Army. For whatever it’s worth
I have lived in Huntsville AL, Germany for 6 years, to El Paso, then Korea, then
Baltimore MD, the middle of Michigan, Pittsburgh, Schenectady NY, Fargo ND, LA
California, then back to El Paso.
John P
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Prepster | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 21:57 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legoman77 writes:
| | In Feedback, goldknight writes:
Pl
| |
John—I thought you mentioned you were from the sands of Tatooine (or maybe that’s
where you are now)
|
No, I grew up in Detroit and was drafted into the Army. For whatever it’s worth
I have lived in Huntsville AL, Germany for 6 years, to El Paso, then Korea, then
Baltimore MD, the middle of Michigan, Pittsburgh, Schenectady NY, Fargo ND, LA
California, then back to El Paso.
John P
|
Let’s get a ranking…least favorite to favorite
I’m headed to Schenectady on Thursday..as my son swimming at Union College🙄.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 23:20 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Prepster writes:
| | In Feedback, legoman77 writes:
| | In Feedback, goldknight writes:
Pl
| |
John—I thought you mentioned you were from the sands of Tatooine (or maybe that’s
where you are now)
|
No, I grew up in Detroit and was drafted into the Army. For whatever it’s worth
I have lived in Huntsville AL, Germany for 6 years, to El Paso, then Korea, then
Baltimore MD, the middle of Michigan, Pittsburgh, Schenectady NY, Fargo ND, LA
California, then back to El Paso.
John P
|
Let’s get a ranking…least favorite to favorite
I’m headed to Schenectady on Thursday..as my son swimming at Union College🙄.
|
I know exactly where Union College is. Ranking is hard to do. I like every where
I lived. I loved Germany but that was in the early 70s. Korea was great. It
is so hard to pick. I visited London a dozen times and that has to be my favorite
city. And the Louvre is my favorite place to be followed closely by the V&A.
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Adjour | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 20:49 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, legoman77 writes:
| | Then again I am from Detroit
|
My brain is having trouble with this.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | CanadaFirst | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:50 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 93 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | Woa easy there. Not everyone on this site is a bricklink expert. If getting threatening
emails because of a "neutral" review is part of the protocol, then this site
has issues. I am completely okay changing a review after an order has been corrected,
but certainly not before. The attitude amongst some of the sellers is very concerning.
Put yourselves in the shoes of someone starting out on here and take a chill
pill.
|
I agree entirely that threatening emails are entirely unacceptable.
The only reason we posted this thread was to have sellers be aware of this because
it's very unusual for a buyer to suddely post multiple non-positive feedbacks
in a single day and on bricklink neutral feedback is not neutral, it has a negative
effect on shops.
Normally on bricklink if there are issues buyers get in touch with sellers and
these issues get resolved. Neutral or negative are usually left if such issues
cannot be resolved to the buyer's satisfaction.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Brick_Qc | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 20:03 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | Normally on bricklink if there are issues buyers get in touch with sellers and
these issues get resolved. Neutral or negative are usually left if such issues
cannot be resolved to the buyer's satisfaction.
|
+1
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 06:27 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | I am completely okay changing a review after an order has been corrected,
but certainly not before.
|
From one seller (not involved in this) to a member ...
The review should be posted after, and only after, you have already contacted
the seller and received no satisfaction. As it is, posting a review (like it
appears to have happened) is a form of extortion. That is not the BrickLink way.
Nita Rae
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Brick.Door | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 11:06 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, cosmicray writes:
| | In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | I am completely okay changing a review after an order has been corrected,
but certainly not before.
|
From one seller (not involved in this) to a member ...
The review should be posted after, and only after, you have already contacted
the seller and received no satisfaction. As it is, posting a review (like it
appears to have happened) is a form of extortion. That is not the BrickLink way.
Nita Rae
|
Would you rather buy from a seller who sends your order correctly the first time,
or one who sends it wrong but then corrects it after you contact them?
Obviously anyone would want it right the first time.
A buyer could (reasonably in my opinion) decide to leave
- positive feedback for an order sent right the first time
- neutral feedback for an order sent wrong but corrected later
- negative feedback for an order sent wrong and not corrected
I'm not aware of any rules or definitions set by Bricklink for how to leave
feedback. You can think this is 'not the Bricklink way' but that's
just your way. If it were the Bricklink way it would be defined in the site help
pages.
Having said that, I think the current feedback system is poorly implemented and
does very little to help buyers or encourage quality sellers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 11:18 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Brick.Door writes:
| | I'm not aware of any rules or definitions set by Bricklink for how to leave
feedback. You can think this is 'not the Bricklink way' but that's
just your way. If it were the Bricklink way it would be defined in the site help
pages.
Having said that, I think the current feedback system is poorly implemented and
does very little to help buyers or encourage quality sellers.
|
BL actually doesn't suggest a use case for neutral feedbacks at all. It's
really kind of bizarre. The way BL visualizes it on the help page actually suggests
there is no impact by using a neutral feedback: https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=248
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 15:42 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| I don't see why one would penalize a seller who corrected a mistake after
being informed about it.
First off, sellers make mistakes. Every store for every product in the world
makes mistakes, and especially when dealing with hundreds of parts in varying
quantities, colors, conditions and shapes. That doesn't mean mistakes are
common, but it means they are understandable.
Second, no seller can correct a mistake he does not know about. I prefer to encourage
buyers to communicate about anything that isn't right with their order.
Third, we should be trying to encourage the behaviour of correcting mistakes,
instead of penalizing it.
To me, a seller who works with a buyer to correct a mistake expeditiously and
professionally deserves the same commendation as any other seller. Maybe moreso.
The feedback works better as a reflection of the buyer's satisfaction, than
as a report card by which Seller #1 gets an "A" and Seller 2 gets a "B+", for
incidental errors in counting parts.
Is that the Bricklink way? I think it is, since it reflects a positive culture
of mutual respect and understanding and communication between all parties. In
sum: We want buyers to feel it is worth the time to tell sellers about mistakes.
And we want sellers to feel it is worth the time to work with buyers to ensure
they are happy. The feedback system, for all it's faults can be used to contribute
to these desired outcomes.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:39 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 116 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
Ties in nicely to this thread, doesn't it: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1326817
And for those that make the ignorant claim that the Buyer's obligation ends
with payment 
There are more than few such individuals here on BL and always have been.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:46 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | And for those that make the ignorant claim that the Buyer's obligation ends
with payment
|
Ignorant claim you say?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:47 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | And for those that make the ignorant claim that the Buyer's obligation ends
with payment
|
Ignorant claim you say?
|
Did I stutter?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 19:50 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Brick_Qc | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 21:26 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| All the non positive FB have been removed 
BTW, congrats on your upcoming 20K FBs ! Quite an achevement !
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | CanadaFirst | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 21:34 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Thank you very much! We do work hard.
In Feedback, Brick_Qc writes:
| | All the non positive FB have been removed
BTW, congrats on your upcoming 20K FBs ! Quite an achevement !
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Golden009 | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 21:31 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 137 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
I am probably doing this wrong, but I wanted to give everyone an update. I have
updated all my reviews to be "positive". I have to say it's very sad to see
how I was treated for a simple mistake. I got several hateful and threatening
emails because sellers didn't get their perfect review. This is very odd
to an outsider. I assumed that a neutral review is a baseline, or positive. Anyone
could make this mistake. The two negative reviews I had updated to positive despite
not yet finding a solution. I'm sure those people will fix it, but it still
strikes me as odd that any hint of negative or neutral feedback is immediately
followed up by threats and forum updates. It's not very welcoming to newcomers
and as far as I can tell, there are a ton of new people to Lego. You guys might
want to re-consider your approach as I'm pretty sure newcomers have money
to spend on parts. You would think growing the user base would be good for business.
I can tell you my experience on here makes me go back to Lego for my part orders
despite the obvious shortcomings of that service. I hope I will have better experiences
going forward, but gosh today was rough.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 21:55 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Welcome to BrickLink! Most Sellers here are small businesses, but they take their
feedback scores very seriously, and by that, I mean their customer service. I
get that issues arise with orders, but communication should always be the first
step. Something not right, expectations not met, communicate. Most Sellers want
to ensure that Buyers have a great experience. Failing that, there are several
avenues a Buyer can take, but it should always be first on the list of solutions,
communicate.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Shiny_Stuff | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 22:13 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, kzinti writes:
| | Welcome to BrickLink! Most Sellers here are small businesses, but they take their
feedback scores very seriously, and by that, I mean their customer service. I
get that issues arise with orders, but communication should always be the first
step. Something not right, expectations not met, communicate. Most Sellers want
to ensure that Buyers have a great experience. Failing that, there are several
avenues a Buyer can take, but it should always be first on the list of solutions,
communicate.
|
One real problem here is the BL Math regarding neutral feedback. That neutral
feedback lowers a seller's feedback percentage forever is simply wrong.
I would suggest completely scrapping the FB percentage score altogether --
the way it was on BrickLink for many years.
If that is not gonna happen, then I suggest changing the math on neutral feedbacks
in some way. Whether that means it starts out with less negative affect or that
the percentage slides lower over time would be okay with me. Or even have the
negative percentage get reduced based on the number of positive feedback received
after so that, eventually, the neutral does not affect the feedback percentage
at all.
Yes, of course, right now, as positive FB accumulate, the feedback percentage
score does improve, but never back to 100.00 percent. I am not advocating making
it EASY to get back to 100.00 percent -- but just reasonable -- such
as having one neutral score removed for every 1,000 or even 2,000 positive feedbacks.
Sellers would have to work hard to earn it.
____
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 06:49 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | Yes, of course, right now, as positive FB accumulate, the feedback percentage
score does improve, but never back to 100.00 percent. I am not advocating making
it EASY to get back to 100.00 percent -- but just reasonable -- such
as having one neutral score removed for every 1,000 or even 2,000 positive feedbacks.
Sellers would have to work hard to earn it.
|
The effect of a neutral is already significantly reduced for every 1000 or 2000
positive feedbacks received. A seller with 10 feedback scores including one neutral
(and no negs) has a positive percentage of 90%. A seller with 2000 feedback scores
including just one neutral (and no negs) has a positive percentage of 99.95%.
The more positives a store has, the less effect a single neutral or negative
has. Get to 20000 and it is removed, so there is your threshold.
Of course, they could drop the number of figures, and have just a single decimal
place, then it becomes much easier to remove the effect of a neutral or negative.
But even then, people would complain. If someone was on 99.94%, rounded down
to 99.9% with 1dp, they'd complain it should show two decimal places. Yet
when they reach 99.95%, rounded up to 100.0% with 1dp, they'd complain if
two were shown.
The percentage positive score is meaningless if the scores are manipulated to
make them look better, away from the basic calculation of number of positive
feedback divided by the number of feedback. Positive feedbacks are already removing
the effect of neutrals (and negatives). To allow 1000 to wipe out one neutral
would essentially be double counting positives over neutrals.
The fact that people still buy from stores with 99.95% or 99% or even 95% and
in some cases 90% shows that getting a neutral really doesn't matter and
does not hit sales. It is just a warning flag that a buyer might want to check
feedback before ordering. I don't think there is any harm at all in having
a score to warn buyers to check first. However, if that score is manipulated
away from a simple calculation to make the seller look better than the statistics
would otherwise show, then it appears as if BL is systematically doing something
to hide something in seller statistics (whether the complaint was justified or
not) and looks way more dodgy than just showing the actual score. It would be
known that BL manipulates scores to make sellers appear better and so buyers
could have less trust in the scores.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 21:56 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
|
| | I am probably doing this wrong, but I wanted to give everyone an update. I have
updated all my reviews to be "positive". I have to say it's very sad to see
how I was treated for a simple mistake. I got several hateful and threatening
emails because sellers didn't get their perfect review. This is very odd
to an outsider. I assumed that a neutral review is a baseline, or positive. Anyone
could make this mistake. The two negative reviews I had updated to positive despite
not yet finding a solution. I'm sure those people will fix it, but it still
strikes me as odd that any hint of negative or neutral feedback is immediately
followed up by threats and forum updates. It's not very welcoming to newcomers
and as far as I can tell, there are a ton of new people to Lego. You guys might
want to re-consider your approach as I'm pretty sure newcomers have money
to spend on parts. You would think growing the user base would be good for business.
I can tell you my experience on here makes me go back to Lego for my part orders
despite the obvious shortcomings of that service. I hope I will have better experiences
going forward, but gosh today was rough.
|
I apologize for any sellers that may have attacked you so quickly, but please
understand that many of those sellers most likely felt the same way when you
left those non-positive reviews without contacting them first.
The usual procedure is that if you received piece(s) that weren't of quality
that you deem satisfactory, that you contact the seller right away rather than
leaving non-positive feedback after a month or so. Give the seller the chance
to fix the mistake before leaving feedback.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 22:09 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | I am probably doing this wrong, but I wanted to give everyone an update. I have
updated all my reviews to be "positive".
|
That's VERY kind of you, for the Neutrals!
But you also remove the Negatives?
Either you talked with the sellers and found both a solution, then an error becomes
a positive attitude, resolution. Ex: lost order refunded, missing part refunded/coupon
or reshipped, whatever...
But if there were still problems, I don't understand why they would be removed.
Anyway, in a general meaning, a feedback simply doesn't resolve anything.
If you've any problem, communicate with the seller.
Some may learn and do their best, and will provide better to their next buyers
(at least).
But a bad feedback won't make anything positive, or rarely.
Apart if your ultimate solution facing void in comprehension/communication.
| | I have to say it's very sad to see
how I was treated for a simple mistake. I got several hateful and threatening
emails because sellers didn't get their perfect review. This is very odd
to an outsider.
|
I agree you shouldn't have received angry e-mails.
This is feedback extortion and is prohibited on BrickLink (see Help/TOS).
But a seller can write you proposing you politely and kindly a solution - yes,
this is normal business practice.
Hoping that helps -
Sylvain
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Deedesria | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 23:23 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
I am probably doing this wrong, but I wanted to give everyone an update. I have
updated all my reviews to be "positive". I have to say it's very sad to see
how I was treated for a simple mistake. I got several hateful and threatening
emails because sellers didn't get their perfect review. This is very odd
to an outsider. I assumed that a neutral review is a baseline, or positive. Anyone
could make this mistake. The two negative reviews I had updated to positive despite
not yet finding a solution. I'm sure those people will fix it, but it still
strikes me as odd that any hint of negative or neutral feedback is immediately
followed up by threats and forum updates. It's not very welcoming to newcomers
and as far as I can tell, there are a ton of new people to Lego. You guys might
want to re-consider your approach as I'm pretty sure newcomers have money
to spend on parts. You would think growing the user base would be good for business.
I can tell you my experience on here makes me go back to Lego for my part orders
despite the obvious shortcomings of that service. I hope I will have better experiences
going forward, but gosh today was rough.
|
You recieved backlash for being rude and inconsiderate. this is how the internet
works sweetheart
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 03:59 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
I am probably doing this wrong, but I wanted to give everyone an update. I have
updated all my reviews to be "positive". I have to say it's very sad to see
how I was treated for a simple mistake. I got several hateful and threatening
emails because sellers didn't get their perfect review. This is very odd
to an outsider. I assumed that a neutral review is a baseline, or positive. Anyone
could make this mistake. The two negative reviews I had updated to positive despite
not yet finding a solution. I'm sure those people will fix it, but it still
strikes me as odd that any hint of negative or neutral feedback is immediately
followed up by threats and forum updates. It's not very welcoming to newcomers
and as far as I can tell, there are a ton of new people to Lego. You guys might
want to re-consider your approach as I'm pretty sure newcomers have money
to spend on parts. You would think growing the user base would be good for business.
I can tell you my experience on here makes me go back to Lego for my part orders
despite the obvious shortcomings of that service. I hope I will have better experiences
going forward, but gosh today was rough.
|
For me, reading this, the neutral or negative feedback isn’t the issue, feel
free to give the feedback you think is deserved. If you have a complaint deal
with it straight after receiving the order. Contact the seller and work it out
with them. If that doesn’t work it is time for a feedback that you feel is necessary
to give. But only then!
Waiting for months isn’t correct. If there is an issue that isn’t solved give
feedback straight away.
Saying all this, I do think it is odd that so many orders did go wrong in your
case.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 15:26 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| |
I am probably doing this wrong, but I wanted to give everyone an update. I have
updated all my reviews to be "positive". I have to say it's very sad to see
how I was treated for a simple mistake. I got several hateful and threatening
emails because sellers didn't get their perfect review. This is very odd
to an outsider. I assumed that a neutral review is a baseline, or positive. Anyone
could make this mistake. The two negative reviews I had updated to positive despite
not yet finding a solution. I'm sure those people will fix it, but it still
strikes me as odd that any hint of negative or neutral feedback is immediately
followed up by threats and forum updates. It's not very welcoming to newcomers
and as far as I can tell, there are a ton of new people to Lego. You guys might
want to re-consider your approach as I'm pretty sure newcomers have money
to spend on parts. You would think growing the user base would be good for business.
I can tell you my experience on here makes me go back to Lego for my part orders
despite the obvious shortcomings of that service. I hope I will have better experiences
going forward, but gosh today was rough.
|
First off, I am sorry that everything got out of hand today.
I just wanted to say one thing...
BrickLink sellers and the people who use this Forum have absolutely NO control
over our messed-up feedback system. The site management is the 'you guys'
that have the power to fix our system. We have complained, suggested, begged,
and explained and no actions have been taken in the years since this mess-up
occurred. This happens more than it should and many sellers believe they are
protecting their livelihood within a broken system.
Most sellers want nothing more than for our customers, new or experienced, to
have a positive transaction here. Hopefully, BrickLink management can catch up!
Good luck,
Jen
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Golden009 | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 22:02 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 155 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
Fair enough. Thanks for the input and I will keep this in mind. Just so that
we understand what aggressive behavior means though, here is the email I got
from the seller after posting a neutral review:
Subject: Regarding BrickLink Order #17120994 (view order)
Sent: Feb 14, 2022 19:10
From: Brick_Qc (2549)
To: Golden009 (20)
Hi Steve, I just notice the neutral FB you left. Doing so, without contacting
your seller isn't something we do here on Brinklink. If there was an issue,
you contact your seller so he can correct any mistake. In this case, what was
wrong with this order ?
So you know, your conduct today is unacceptable and has generated a discussion
on you in the forum.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1327837
Be advise that if you don't retract your unwarranted feedbacks, you will
be stoplisted form a majority of the big sellers in Canada and the US, even internationaly
(and smaller sellers to read the forum too). You won't be allowed you to
buy in their store because they'll be afraid you'll leave neutral or
negative FB to them too.
Probably you didn't know the scope of what you did, the good news is that
can be fix, I strongly suggest you. Everyone can make a mistake.
Thanks
Olivier
I mean. How can you guys grow a community and your businesses with that kind
of attitude towards people that make a simple mistake?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 22:13 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 123 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | So you know, your conduct today is unacceptable and has generated a discussion
on you in the forum.
|
Wow - "your conduct today is unacceptable".
^This isn't acceptable.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 22:36 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 121 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
Fair enough. Thanks for the input and I will keep this in mind. Just so that
we understand what aggressive behavior means though, here is the email I got
from the seller after posting a neutral review:
Subject: Regarding BrickLink Order #17120994 (view order)
Sent: Feb 14, 2022 19:10
From: Brick_Qc (2549)
To: Golden009 (20)
Hi Steve, I just notice the neutral FB you left. Doing so, without contacting
your seller isn't something we do here on Brinklink. If there was an issue,
you contact your seller so he can correct any mistake. In this case, what was
wrong with this order ?
So you know, your conduct today is unacceptable and has generated a discussion
on you in the forum.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1327837
Be advise that if you don't retract your unwarranted feedbacks, you will
be stoplisted form a majority of the big sellers in Canada and the US, even internationaly
(and smaller sellers to read the forum too). You won't be allowed you to
buy in their store because they'll be afraid you'll leave neutral or
negative FB to them too.
Probably you didn't know the scope of what you did, the good news is that
can be fix, I strongly suggest you. Everyone can make a mistake.
Thanks
Olivier
I mean. How can you guys grow a community and your businesses with that kind
of attitude towards people that make a simple mistake?
|
As I had received a neutral FB from the buyer, I contacted him and wrote him
a message. He then immediately responded and asked me how he could remove the
feedbacks so I gave him the link. (and he did not say what the issues were, if
there were anything important)
I removed him from my stoplist and based on my communications that I have with
him, I request all sellers to remove him from your stoplist as well.
It is true he presented himself as a "problem buyer" and got people reacted but
he is for sure a good buyer and AFOL. I welcome him again as he is still almost
a newbie and I hope he will find good sellers and Lego fans on Bricklink, as
I did since I joined Bricklink in 2015.
I know also the seller who wrote the message above.
He did not mean to threaten at all. Many miscommunications happen in writing.
He just wanted to point out to what he thought would happen (i.e. he would be
stoplisted by the majority of sellers in Canada, and even elsewhere) He certainly
does not think he has power on what other sellers may decide to do and I agree
with him that other seller could do that.
Now the problem is resolved, let's go back to Lego buying, Lego selling,
building MOCS,...
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Llewyn | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 04:34 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, SezaR writes:
| | It is true he presented himself as a "problem buyer" and got people reacted but
he is for sure a good buyer and AFOL.
|
Really? I would say anyone who suddenly claims 5 months after receiving an order
that there was an issue with quality is a problem buyer.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 14, 2022 23:37 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 133 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | I mean. How can you guys grow a community and your businesses with that kind
of attitude towards people that make a simple mistake?
|
Hey man, I totally understand your reaction to BrickLink today and am sorry you
had to go through this. I would chock up most of the email you posted from a
seller to a language barrier. Hopefully lessons have been learned by involved
sellers and forum readers. The main problem here is that neutral feedback has
basically the same effect as negative feedback (which BL does not effectively
communicate to buyers).
To BL, here is another reason to remove neutral feedback. It's useless and
just causes problems. How would you solve this problem? Would you include in
your email newsletter a blurb on how neutral feedback should be used with caution?
No, that would be ridiculous. Just remove neutral feedback, or remove the visible
penalty it incurs.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | EmblaRonja | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 04:31 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Actually removing neutral from the system is the correct thing to do.
Because not leaving feedback at all is in fact a neutral.
So why have “two” options to leave neutral?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 05:41 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | Because not leaving feedback at all is in fact a neutral.
|
No it isn't. Not leaving feedback is choosing not to leave any feedback at
all.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | EmblaRonja | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 06:26 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| Ok I'll try again.
The reason for a feedback system should be to communicate to forthcoming buyers.
It's not a communication system between seller and buyer for their transaction
- for this we have the message function.
If you want to raise your seller you give a positive.
If you want to warn other buyers you leave a negative.
If you don't want to raise your seller but you don't either want to warn
next coming buyer the obvious way to do this is to not leave any feedback at
all.
Neutral is misunderstood and not necessary to keep if you look at it this way.
From a buyers perspective a neutral is "not directly happy but can't complain"
and from a sellers perspective it's more like "a negative light" - very much
so as it's hitting your percent.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 07:09 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, EmblaRonja writes:
| | Ok I'll try again.
The reason for a feedback system should be to communicate to forthcoming buyers.
It's not a communication system between seller and buyer for their transaction
- for this we have the message function.
If you want to raise your seller you give a positive.
If you want to warn other buyers you leave a negative.
If you don't want to raise your seller but you don't either want to warn
next coming buyer the obvious way to do this is to not leave any feedback at
all.
|
And what if you want to warn other buyers that a few bucks worth of used parts
in a larger order were bad quality but the seller refused to replace them or
warn others that a seller does send items but it takes them two months to post?
Those are nowhere near as serious as a seller taking money and not sending items
at all. Leaving negatives might be harsh in those cases, but that is all a buyer
could do if it was only positive or negative; or they could accept that they
have no way to warn others. Currently a buyer can warn others about less serious
issues by leaving neutral feedback. Not leaving feedback at all means those warnings
are not given.
If there was no neutral, it wouldn't surprise me if standards slipped. Sellers
might say they post every few days, but so what if it takes a month instead.
The buyer got their items so would either have to leave positive or have to
keep quiet about it. Is a buyer going to leave negative feedback if they get
their items, just with a delay? Unlikely.
Sma ething if 98% of an order is fine, but a minority of it is missing or damaged.
Do you put up with it and leave positive as most of the order is fine, leave
negative over a minor amount or have to keep quiet about it. Whereas now, a buyer
can leave neutral feedback where the seller performance is inadequate but not
poor.
No say at all cannot be compared to a neutral (and vice versa, neutral is not
no say) as so many people either forget to leave feedback or refuse to leave
feedback at all for any sellers. If lack of feedback started to equate to leaving
neutral feedback, then I'd expect to see buyers starting to be stoplisted
if they don't leave feedback.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 09:13 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | And what if you want to warn other buyers that a few bucks worth of used parts
in a larger order were bad quality but the seller refused to replace them or
warn others that a seller does send items but it takes them two months to post?
Those are nowhere near as serious as a seller taking money and not sending items
at all. Leaving negatives might be harsh in those cases, but that is all a buyer
could do if it was only positive or negative; or they could accept that they
have no way to warn others. Currently a buyer can warn others about less serious
issues by leaving neutral feedback. Not leaving feedback at all means those warnings
are not given.
|
OK, I know I'm not going to convince you, but for the sake of others that
read this thread I will respond to your argument.
Personally, I either have a good experience or a bad experience when I buy on
BL (which is not that often). I've never had a neutral experience.
However, another way to look at my past purchases is they were all neutral except
for the really bad ones. I placed an order and all the parts arrive as expected.
If I was brand new to the platform, neutral might be what I would choose. It
wasn't a positive experience per say because I got what I expected, no more.
You can see how that might be considered neutral, especially to new buyers.
The big problem with neutral is illustrated in the point you brought up. You
want a way to warn others of an experience you had that you deem "less serious".
So you want to warn of a less serious problem, yet the effect on a store's
overall rating is exactly the same as if it was a negative feedback. That is
the big problem with neutral feedback.
In my opinion, if neutral feedback is supposed to be used for the purpose you
illustrate than the penalty should not be the same as negative feedback on a
store's overall rating.
I would argue that honest neutral feedback is avoided by experienced users because
of this negative effect. Why would you want to hurt a store's rating for
a "meh" order?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 09:18 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | And what if you want to warn other buyers that a few bucks worth of used parts
in a larger order were bad quality but the seller refused to replace them or
warn others that a seller does send items but it takes them two months to post?
Those are nowhere near as serious as a seller taking money and not sending items
at all. Leaving negatives might be harsh in those cases, but that is all a buyer
could do if it was only positive or negative; or they could accept that they
have no way to warn others. Currently a buyer can warn others about less serious
issues by leaving neutral feedback. Not leaving feedback at all means those warnings
are not given.
|
OK, I know I'm not going to convince you, but for the sake of others that
read this thread I will respond to your argument.
Personally, I either have a good experience or a bad experience when I buy on
BL (which is not that often). I've never had a neutral experience.
However, another way to look at my past purchases is they were all neutral except
for the really bad ones. I placed an order and all the parts arrive as expected.
If I was brand new to the platform, neutral might be what I would choose. It
wasn't a positive experience per say because I got what I expected, no more.
You can see how that might be considered neutral, especially to new buyers.
The big problem with neutral is illustrated in the point you brought up. You
want a way to warn others of an experience you had that you deem "less serious".
So you want to warn of a less serious problem, yet the effect on a store's
overall rating is exactly the same as if it was a negative feedback. That is
the big problem with neutral feedback.
In my opinion, if neutral feedback is supposed to be used for the purpose you
illustrate than the penalty should not be the same as negative feedback on a
store's overall rating.
I would argue that honest neutral feedback is avoided by experienced users because
of this negative effect. Why would you want to hurt a store's rating for
a "meh" order?
|
Forgot to mention this is something that comes up all the time. If you want BL
to change their neutral feedback policy, vote up one of the many suggestion posts
like this one:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1217067
You can search the forum for more of the same.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 09:21 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 100 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | And what if you want to warn other buyers that a few bucks worth of used parts
in a larger order were bad quality but the seller refused to replace them or
warn others that a seller does send items but it takes them two months to post?
Those are nowhere near as serious as a seller taking money and not sending items
at all. Leaving negatives might be harsh in those cases, but that is all a buyer
could do if it was only positive or negative; or they could accept that they
have no way to warn others. Currently a buyer can warn others about less serious
issues by leaving neutral feedback. Not leaving feedback at all means those warnings
are not given.
|
OK, I know I'm not going to convince you, but for the sake of others that
read this thread I will respond to your argument.
Personally, I either have a good experience or a bad experience when I buy on
BL (which is not that often). I've never had a neutral experience.
However, another way to look at my past purchases is they were all neutral except
for the really bad ones. I placed an order and all the parts arrive as expected.
If I was brand new to the platform, neutral might be what I would choose. It
wasn't a positive experience per say because I got what I expected, no more.
You can see how that might be considered neutral, especially to new buyers.
The big problem with neutral is illustrated in the point you brought up. You
want a way to warn others of an experience you had that you deem "less serious".
So you want to warn of a less serious problem, yet the effect on a store's
overall rating is exactly the same as if it was a negative feedback. That is
the big problem with neutral feedback.
In my opinion, if neutral feedback is supposed to be used for the purpose you
illustrate than the penalty should not be the same as negative feedback on a
store's overall rating.
I would argue that honest neutral feedback is avoided by experienced users because
of this negative effect. Why would you want to hurt a store's rating for
a "meh" order?
|
I can see both sides here, and can't help but wonder is a 5-star system would
help things out. Of course, each person would have their own opinions as to what
is deemed worthy of of a 5 star rating, or how bad a 3 star rating really is.
It could also help the seller see better how good their service is a lot better
than the simple positive/neutral/negative feedback.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 14:03 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 119 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, firestar246 writes:
| | In Feedback, gogogovro writes:
| | In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
| | And what if you want to warn other buyers that a few bucks worth of used parts
in a larger order were bad quality but the seller refused to replace them or
warn others that a seller does send items but it takes them two months to post?
Those are nowhere near as serious as a seller taking money and not sending items
at all. Leaving negatives might be harsh in those cases, but that is all a buyer
could do if it was only positive or negative; or they could accept that they
have no way to warn others. Currently a buyer can warn others about less serious
issues by leaving neutral feedback. Not leaving feedback at all means those warnings
are not given.
|
OK, I know I'm not going to convince you, but for the sake of others that
read this thread I will respond to your argument.
Personally, I either have a good experience or a bad experience when I buy on
BL (which is not that often). I've never had a neutral experience.
However, another way to look at my past purchases is they were all neutral except
for the really bad ones. I placed an order and all the parts arrive as expected.
If I was brand new to the platform, neutral might be what I would choose. It
wasn't a positive experience per say because I got what I expected, no more.
You can see how that might be considered neutral, especially to new buyers.
The big problem with neutral is illustrated in the point you brought up. You
want a way to warn others of an experience you had that you deem "less serious".
So you want to warn of a less serious problem, yet the effect on a store's
overall rating is exactly the same as if it was a negative feedback. That is
the big problem with neutral feedback.
In my opinion, if neutral feedback is supposed to be used for the purpose you
illustrate than the penalty should not be the same as negative feedback on a
store's overall rating.
I would argue that honest neutral feedback is avoided by experienced users because
of this negative effect. Why would you want to hurt a store's rating for
a "meh" order?
|
I can see both sides here, and can't help but wonder is a 5-star system would
help things out. Of course, each person would have their own opinions as to what
is deemed worthy of of a 5 star rating, or how bad a 3 star rating really is.
It could also help the seller see better how good their service is a lot better
than the simple positive/neutral/negative feedback.
|
5-star rating systems are so ubiquitous, that I believe this would definitely
be the best option as well. We are all so used to it on things like Amazon, ebay,
Google ratings, restaurant ratings, travel ratings, etc., etc., that I would
have a hard time believing that anyone would misinterpret the system or not know
how to use it.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 09:52 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| | | Personally, I either have a good experience or a bad experience when I buy on
BL (which is not that often). I've never had a neutral experience.
|
So you have not needed to use neutral feedback. Does that mean nobody else should?
I think not. Personally, I've never felt I needed to leave negative feedback
for a seller. Does that mean there should be no negatives too?
| | However, another way to look at my past purchases is they were all neutral except
for the really bad ones. I placed an order and all the parts arrive as expected.
If I was brand new to the platform, neutral might be what I would choose. It
wasn't a positive experience per say because I got what I expected, no more.
You can see how that might be considered neutral, especially to new buyers.
|
I have said the same here too. Even good transactions are essentially just that
I got what I expected. But then nothing would be positive, yet people leave positive
feedback. I think most sensible buyers can also see other feedback people have
already left and understand that positive means they got their items. I have
sold to many new buyers, and they have either not left feedback or have left
positive. I have never received a neutral from a new buyer not understanding
the feedback system. Especially if the seller has already left them positive
feedback for paying, it shows that positive feedback means the other party did
what they meant to do. Although of course it does happen that occasionally a
new buyer leaves a neutral if they do not understand. Just drop them a message
and let them know that if nothing was wrong, then they should really have left
positive, as the seller has already done for them.
Rather than getting rid of neutrals completely, I'd prefer they introduced
a further step between placing a neutral or negative and it recording. Something
like "You are about to leave neutral/negative feedback. Have you contacted the
seller to rectify the problem? If the probelm remains unresolved click OK to
leave feedback". That gives a warning to any new users, and also an extra 10
seconds thinking time to anyone about to leave a neutral/negative.
| | The big problem with neutral is illustrated in the point you brought up. You
want a way to warn others of an experience you had that you deem "less serious".
So you want to warn of a less serious problem, yet the effect on a store's
overall rating is exactly the same as if it was a negative feedback. That is
the big problem with neutral feedback.
|
It is not exactly the same. Negative feedback reduces the total feedback score,
counts in the red column and affects the percentage positive. Neutral affects
the percentage positive (as it is not positive) but does not affect the total
score and it also appears in a different column to negatives in the summary table.
They are not exactly the same.
| | In my opinion, if neutral feedback is supposed to be used for the purpose you
illustrate than the penalty should not be the same as negative feedback on a
store's overall rating.
|
The percentage rating is PERCENTAGE POSITIVE. If someone is not positive about
a transaction and wants to record that (even if it is a minor problem compared
to really bad transaction), why should it not count towards lowering the percentage
positive rate.
| | I would argue that honest neutral feedback is avoided by experienced users because
of this negative effect. Why would you want to hurt a store's rating for
a "meh" order?
|
If someone wants to record a less than positive problem, it is not meh. It is
bad enough that they want it recorded.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 10:47 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, yorbrick writes:
Here we go...
| | | | Personally, I either have a good experience or a bad experience when I buy on
BL (which is not that often). I've never had a neutral experience.
|
So you have not needed to use neutral feedback. Does that mean nobody else should?
I think not. Personally, I've never felt I needed to leave negative feedback
for a seller. Does that mean there should be no negatives too?
|
The purpose for saying "personally" is that I know my opinion is not the same
as everyone else's opinion.
| | | | However, another way to look at my past purchases is they were all neutral except
for the really bad ones. I placed an order and all the parts arrive as expected.
If I was brand new to the platform, neutral might be what I would choose. It
wasn't a positive experience per say because I got what I expected, no more.
You can see how that might be considered neutral, especially to new buyers.
|
I have said the same here too. Even good transactions are essentially just that
I got what I expected. But then nothing would be positive, yet people leave positive
feedback. I think most sensible buyers can also see other feedback people have
already left and understand that positive means they got their items. I have
sold to many new buyers, and they have either not left feedback or have left
positive. I have never received a neutral from a new buyer not understanding
the feedback system. Especially if the seller has already left them positive
feedback for paying, it shows that positive feedback means the other party did
what they meant to do. Although of course it does happen that occasionally a
new buyer leaves a neutral if they do not understand. Just drop them a message
and let them know that if nothing was wrong, then they should really have left
positive, as the seller has already done for them.
Rather than getting rid of neutrals completely, I'd prefer they introduced
a further step between placing a neutral or negative and it recording. Something
like "You are about to leave neutral/negative feedback. Have you contacted the
seller to rectify the problem? If the probelm remains unresolved click OK to
leave feedback". That gives a warning to any new users, and also an extra 10
seconds thinking time to anyone about to leave a neutral/negative.
|
Hooray for constructive thinking! The purpose of my post is to get people thinking
of possible solutions and this is one!
| | | | The big problem with neutral is illustrated in the point you brought up. You
want a way to warn others of an experience you had that you deem "less serious".
So you want to warn of a less serious problem, yet the effect on a store's
overall rating is exactly the same as if it was a negative feedback. That is
the big problem with neutral feedback.
|
It is not exactly the same. Negative feedback reduces the total feedback score,
counts in the red column and affects the percentage positive. Neutral affects
the percentage positive (as it is not positive) but does not affect the total
score and it also appears in a different column to negatives in the summary table.
They are not exactly the same.
|
On your store page, the only number that matters, the lowest hanging fruit, the
number that makes the biggest visual impact is the Praise percentage. It's
the big number at the top right of your store. It's the number that draws
a mental correlation, deserved or not, to other online shopping experiences.
That is what I am referring to. Neutrals and Negatives have the exact same impact
on this score.
| | | | In my opinion, if neutral feedback is supposed to be used for the purpose you
illustrate than the penalty should not be the same as negative feedback on a
store's overall rating.
|
The percentage rating is PERCENTAGE POSITIVE. If someone is not positive about
a transaction and wants to record that (even if it is a minor problem compared
to really bad transaction), why should it not count towards lowering the percentage
positive rate.
|
Because of my above statement regarding the importance of this particular metric.
It is the most impactful metric a store has to offer because of its visability
and prominence.
| | | | I would argue that honest neutral feedback is avoided by experienced users because
of this negative effect. Why would you want to hurt a store's rating for
a "meh" order?
|
If someone wants to record a less than positive problem, it is not meh. It is
bad enough that they want it recorded.
|
So your conclusion is that we should feel ok about making a store suffer in it's
most important metric because our experience was not negative, but rather a little
less than positive?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | WUIt | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 09:30 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| As a professional seller, CanadaFirst overstepped the line by starting this forum
thread. The message from CanadaFirst to Golden009 is threatening and cannot be
attributed to language barriers. Reacting to neutral feedback in that way goes
against the rule of not using feedback for extortion. CanadaFirst should be reprimanded
for bad conduct.
Like many newbies and sellers alike, Golden009 gave batch feedback to many orders
on a single login. Like a true newbie, he gave non-positive feedback without
fully understanding the repercussions for the sellers. In view of the sellers,
Golden009 behaved as a problematic customer would.
The cause for his perceived misstep is the current view on feedback here on BrickLink.
Feedback defaults to positive unless there is a complaint remaining unresolved.
Thus, the buyer only has a binary decision - either positive or non-positive.
The feedback system does not work properly the way it is currently used. As a
buyer, I'm not interested in which store has the highest percentage. I'm
worried about the quality of service and it is not currently reflected by the
score.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | novafan3 | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 12:38 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| In Feedback, Golden009 writes:
| | In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We sold parts to buyer Golden009 back in september.
They received the order shortly after and never got in touch with us.
Today this buyer posted a negative feedback on their order without getting in
touch with us.
This buyer also posted a total of 11 neutral and 2 negative feedbacks today.
This buyer only left 22 feedbacks since they're a member so there's that.
We have been in touch with them and they say that some parts are yellowed (possible,
we're human and some can go through unnoticed but we would have gladly replaced
them or refunded them) and that some are bent. The bent parts are clearly damage
that happened in transit, we do not list bent parts and it would be hard not
to notice. We would have replaced or refunded them nonetheless.
We find it abhorrent that after 5 months their first contact is to leave a negative
feedback, bricklink guidelines recommend geting in touch with sellers in case
of issues and if no resolution can be found then neutral or negative feedback
is warranted.
The buyer stated to us in his message that he only got around to posting feedback
today after being pestered by the system to do so and appears unvilling to even
tell us which parts are yellowed according to them so there is nothing we can
do to resolve this.
We recommend that sellers be very careful with this buyer. We find their feedback
unfair to us but with the large number of positive feedbacks we have the effect
on our reputation will be minimal but a smaller shop would suffer great damage
from this. He left many neutral feedbacks that say 'no major issues'
which also appears entirely unfair.
|
Fair enough. Thanks for the input and I will keep this in mind. Just so that
we understand what aggressive behavior means though, here is the email I got
from the seller after posting a neutral review:
Subject: Regarding BrickLink Order #17120994 (view order)
Sent: Feb 14, 2022 19:10
From: Brick_Qc (2549)
To: Golden009 (20)
Hi Steve, I just notice the neutral FB you left. Doing so, without contacting
your seller isn't something we do here on Brinklink. If there was an issue,
you contact your seller so he can correct any mistake. In this case, what was
wrong with this order ?
So you know, your conduct today is unacceptable and has generated a discussion
on you in the forum.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1327837
Be advise that if you don't retract your unwarranted feedbacks, you will
be stoplisted form a majority of the big sellers in Canada and the US, even internationaly
(and smaller sellers to read the forum too). You won't be allowed you to
buy in their store because they'll be afraid you'll leave neutral or
negative FB to them too.
Probably you didn't know the scope of what you did, the good news is that
can be fix, I strongly suggest you. Everyone can make a mistake.
Thanks
Olivier
I mean. How can you guys grow a community and your businesses with that kind
of attitude towards people that make a simple mistake?
|
imagine buying from someone and then they threaten to get you blacklisted across
the site because you didn't value his precious reputation on a website about
block toys. like "your conduct today was unacceptable" your obsession with a
number on a computer is unacceptable.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | CanadaFirst | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 12:58 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 104 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| We canceled the post and are quite disappointed.
The buyer and us hashed it out and things are entirely resolved and now it would
appear that some users here are putting fake orders in his shop and bullying
him in messages which is entirely unacceptable.
When we made the post it appeared that the situation could not be resolved but
in the end it was. We should all be mature and stop this immediately.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | V_JAMS | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 15:46 | | Subject: | Re: Sellers beware! | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Feedback | |
|
| It seems you have a lot of things that you view as unacceptable. Didn't you
initialize all this by airing your issues? You essentially blackmailed the guy
into changing his feedback. Now you want to dictate what is okay and not? Please
stop.
In Feedback, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We canceled the post and are quite disappointed.
The buyer and us hashed it out and things are entirely resolved and now it would
appear that some users here are putting fake orders in his shop and bullying
him in messages which is entirely unacceptable.
When we made the post it appeared that the situation could not be resolved but
in the end it was. We should all be mature and stop this immediately.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Canada, Quebec
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
USA, Texas
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Sweden, Västra Götaland
Finland, Uusimaa
