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| | | Author: | oasis  | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 12:24 | | Subject: | BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 311 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| I just got off the phone with my state's department of revenue, and here's
what they said.
BL collects state sales tax from purchases made by all of the US sellers, instead
of collecting our resale certificates. BL owes us all, every penny of that, and
the total keeps climbing with every purchase-for-resale that each of us makes.
I was told that BL has to initiate the refunds, not us. BL has two choices, as
to how to process all of that money back to us.
A) request a total refund from each state, and refund us each individually, or
B) formally, legally assign the refunds to each of us, for us to process with
our state, individually
Either way, it's complicated; B is way more complicated for the sellers.
Either way, BL has to take our resale certificates and stop charging us. I'm
in SC. The options might be different in other states, but the person I spoke
to thinks it's most likely all the same. This is stupid. They owe me about
$400, how much do they owe you?
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| | | | | Author: | Play_It_Again | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 12:33 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | Not as much as you, but since July of 2021 its over $140. |
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| | | | | Author: | MidwestBrick | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 12:54 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, oasis writes:
| | I just got off the phone with my state's department of revenue, and here's
what they said.
BL collects state sales tax from purchases made by all of the US sellers, instead
of collecting our resale certificates. BL owes us all, every penny of that, and
the total keeps climbing with every purchase-for-resale that each of us makes.
I was told that BL has to initiate the refunds, not us. BL has two choices, as
to how to process all of that money back to us.
A) request a total refund from each state, and refund us each individually, or
B) formally, legally assign the refunds to each of us, for us to process with
our state, individually
Either way, it's complicated; B is way more complicated for the sellers.
Either way, BL has to take our resale certificates and stop charging us. I'm
in SC. The options might be different in other states, but the person I spoke
to thinks it's most likely all the same. This is stupid. They owe me about
$400, how much do they owe you?
|
So you are saying that every Tax collected by BL should be paid back to you,
regardless of which state it was collected for and not just sales within your
own State?
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| | | | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:04 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 104 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Any time a purchase was made on BrickLink by a legitimate reseller, the taxes
paid on the sale should be excluded, or paid back upon request and presentation
of a reseller license. That's all.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | BlueDevilBricks | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:13 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, kzinti writes:
| | Any time a purchase was made on BrickLink by a legitimate reseller, the taxes
paid on the sale should be excluded, or paid back upon request and presentation
of a reseller license. That's all.
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Does bricklink have a way of identifying which purchases a buyer makes are personal
vs. resale? Or would they have to just assume/hope that all purchases made by
someone with a reseller's license is only buying for the purpose of reselling?
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Play_It_Again | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 14:50 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| This could be an issue for them. When I registered my exemption on eBay I was
told I'd need to open another account for non tax-exempt purchases, which
goes against the TOS on Bricklink. When I buy at Sams Clubs, there is a prompt
for taxed and tax exempt purchases at checkout.
In Selling, mklanica writes:
| | In Selling, kzinti writes:
| | Any time a purchase was made on BrickLink by a legitimate reseller, the taxes
paid on the sale should be excluded, or paid back upon request and presentation
of a reseller license. That's all.
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Does bricklink have a way of identifying which purchases a buyer makes are personal
vs. resale? Or would they have to just assume/hope that all purchases made by
someone with a reseller's license is only buying for the purpose of reselling?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 15:02 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, monica4391 writes:
| | This could be an issue for them. When I registered my exemption on eBay I was
told I'd need to open another account for non tax-exempt purchases, which
goes against the TOS on Bricklink. When I buy at Sams Clubs, there is a prompt
for taxed and tax exempt purchases at checkout.
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It is not against BL terms of service if you have a separate business that is
registered and then an individual account and you clear this with them.
But isn't an alternative that BL says it only allows transactions where the
buyer is a consumer. They do that here for the main lego site, and hence VAT
is charged on all purchases. That way there is no issue when sellers say they
are purchasing for a business but in reality purchase for themselves.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 16:32 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
But isn't an alternative that BL says it only allows transactions where the
buyer is a consumer. They do that here for the main lego site, and hence VAT
is charged on all purchases. That way there is no issue when sellers say they
are purchasing for a business but in reality purchase for themselves.
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That works for VAT because VAT paid in excess is refundable.
AFAIU, it doesn’t work for Sales tax because it’s not refunded, it only can be
deducted from collected Sales tax, and as it’s BL that collects Sales tax now,
sellers have nothing to deduct it from.
(Maybe that’s a way to ensure that what is bought is really for resale: if you
sell what you buy, you should collect more than you owe.)
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | MidwestBrick | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:14 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, kzinti writes:
| | Any time a purchase was made on BrickLink by a legitimate reseller, the taxes
paid on the sale should be excluded, or paid back upon request and presentation
of a reseller license. That's all.
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I see. I don't file for tax exemptions and just tack it on to the cost of
the item. I should do this, maybe tomorrow. 
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:26 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, kzinti writes:
| | Any time a purchase was made on BrickLink by a legitimate reseller, the taxes
paid on the sale should be excluded, or paid back upon request and presentation
of a reseller license. That's all.
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Yes, if a business accepts reseller certificates, then they should not be collecting
sales tax on those sales for which the certificate was presented. But BrickLink
doesn't accept these certificates (yet - hopefully) and (as far as I know)
they're not legally obligated to.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SasquatchBricks | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 15:25 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, kzinti writes:
| | Any time a purchase was made on BrickLink by a legitimate reseller, the taxes
paid on the sale should be excluded, or paid back upon request and presentation
of a reseller license. That's all.
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I think that's the problem, they aren't taking resellers or business
licenses, like us, so yes they are going to owe us a significant amount when
that time comes.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 15:38 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, mach1baby writes:
| | I think that's the problem, they aren't taking resellers or business
licenses, like us, so yes they are going to owe us a significant amount when
that time comes.
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I don't think they will owe us anything for sales that occurred before they
started accepting those certificates.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | watch505 | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 15:39 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | Correct, that money is gone. |
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| | | | | | | Author: | oasis | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 09:51 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | So you are saying that every Tax collected by BL should be paid back to you,
regardless of which state it was collected for and not just sales within your
own State?
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no, no, no.. when you buy from another seller, if you have a resale #, and you're
buying for resale, you are not supposed to pay sales tax.. i.e. buying parts
to complete sets, then selling the sets
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| | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:09 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | Please drop this in the mailbox of Admin/Support..... |
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| | | | | | | Author: | oasis | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 09:55 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, StarBrick writes:
| | Please drop this in the mailbox of Admin/Support.....
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already opened a support ticket
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| | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:19 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, oasis writes:
| | BL collects state sales tax from purchases made by all of the US sellers, instead
of collecting our resale certificates. BL owes us all, every penny of that, and
the total keeps climbing with every purchase-for-resale that each of us makes.
|
I don't believe a business is obligated to accept a resale certificate, and
a business that does not accept a resale certificate must still collect sales
tax. In other words I don't think the information you posted is accurate
- since BL has no mechanism for accepting resale certificates, they don't
owe us what they've collected for state sales tax.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Play_It_Again | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:25 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| While this is probably true, it's been discussed for over a year now. If
i remember correctly once they had all of the states set up so they could collect
tax, they were going to work on it. Now that VAT stuff is done, which is a bit
of a train wreck on how to successfully do to avoid the buyer paying VAT twice,
they should move on this. I buy on many platforms for resale, and this is the
only one i can think of that hasn't implemented it.
In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, oasis writes:
| | BL collects state sales tax from purchases made by all of the US sellers, instead
of collecting our resale certificates. BL owes us all, every penny of that, and
the total keeps climbing with every purchase-for-resale that each of us makes.
|
I don't believe a business is obligated to accept a resale certificate, and
a business that does not accept a resale certificate must still collect sales
tax. In other words I don't think the information you posted is accurate
- since BL has no mechanism for accepting resale certificates, they don't
owe us what they've collected for state sales tax.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, monica4391 writes:
| | While this is probably true, it's been discussed for over a year now. If
i remember correctly once they had all of the states set up so they could collect
tax, they were going to work on it. Now that VAT stuff is done, which is a bit
of a train wreck on how to successfully do to avoid the buyer paying VAT twice,
they should move on this. I buy on many platforms for resale, and this is the
only one i can think of that hasn't implemented it.
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I agree that BrickLink should implement this - it would be very helpful. I just
don't think they're legally obligated to do it (as they were legally
obligated to collect and remit sales tax).
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | oasis | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 10:03 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | I agree that BrickLink should implement this - it would be very helpful. I just
don't think they're legally obligated to do it (as they were legally
obligated to collect and remit sales tax).
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They might not have a legal requirement to do it, but they certainly have a community
obligation to do it. I'm a programmer; adding "Resale Certificate Yes/No?"
to the system should be a simple process. Can you think of any large company
that does not offer the option, as apprpriate?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 10:14 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, oasis writes:
| | I'm a programmer; adding "Resale Certificate Yes/No?"
to the system should be a simple process. Can you think of any large company
that does not offer the option, as apprpriate?
|
I'm a programmer as well and I'm not sure it's such a simple process
- BL would have to keep the certificate on file, validate it, make sure it didn't
expire, etc. And something that seems simple might not be if you're dealing
with a legacy codebase. Now I'm not excusing BL, just explaining.
I have no idea about other companies. Does BL qualify as "large"? You might say,
oh, Lego is a large company; but they certainly don't accept resale certificates
on lego.com. And I do know Target was at least restricting them at one point
because they did not want resellers hoarding product (e.g. hand sanitizer) to
list on eBay/Amazon/etc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 11:19 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, oasis writes:
| | I'm a programmer; adding "Resale Certificate Yes/No?"
to the system should be a simple process. Can you think of any large company
that does not offer the option, as apprpriate?
|
I'm a programmer as well and I'm not sure it's such a simple process
- BL would have to keep the certificate on file, validate it, make sure it didn't
expire, etc. And something that seems simple might not be if you're dealing
with a legacy codebase. Now I'm not excusing BL, just explaining.
|
Florida certificates expire annually, and have to be re-applied each year.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | watch505 | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 16:13 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Of the MTC states there are a handful that require replying, the majority are
one and done.
I'll keep saying it, contact Tanya and the help desk to let them know this
is a priority.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | oasis | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 16:27 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | I'll keep saying it, contact Tanya and the help desk to let them know this
is a priority.
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I have not received a response to my help desk ticket yet. 6 days, that is unusual.
I do not have contact info for the other two. Is there a way to tag admin here?
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 13:32 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, oasis writes:
| | I just got off the phone with my state's department of revenue, and here's
what they said.
BL collects state sales tax from purchases made by all of the US sellers, instead
of collecting our resale certificates. BL owes us all, every penny of that, and
the total keeps climbing with every purchase-for-resale that each of us makes.
I was told that BL has to initiate the refunds, not us. BL has two choices, as
to how to process all of that money back to us.
A) request a total refund from each state, and refund us each individually, or
B) formally, legally assign the refunds to each of us, for us to process with
our state, individually
Either way, it's complicated; B is way more complicated for the sellers.
Either way, BL has to take our resale certificates and stop charging us. I'm
in SC. The options might be different in other states, but the person I spoke
to thinks it's most likely all the same. This is stupid. They owe me about
$400, how much do they owe you?
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So, the situation in Florida, as it was explained to me a number of years back
...
A seller of goods may, but is not required to do so, accept a purchaser's
tax registration certificate as a sign that they are purchasing for resale [1].
The only time I ever used mine, was maybe 10 years back with WalMart. They entered
the relevant data into their system, and gave me a hand-written card, with a
number that the checkout person would enter.
Florida's position is (or was back then) that if I purchased something for
resale, and I had to pay tax because my certificate was not accepted, then I
could claim that tax on my next DoR return, but only up to the amount I had to
remit to DoR. While that was a partial solution, it was not a full one.
The problem that some seller's are faced with on BL, is that they now have
little (or no) tax remittances to their own state to offset tax being paid, because
BL is collecting/remitting, on both sides of the transaction. This is the part
that needs to be sorted out, because to not do so is imposing an undue burden
on the sellers here, trying to use BL for B2B transactions to stock their own
store.
[1] The non-acceptance of tax certificates due to BrickLink's policy, does
not properly deal with the situation where a buyer has a bona-fide exemption
for purposes other than resale (e.g. a public school). They are not buying for
resale, and should not have to pay tax in any case.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | oasis | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 10:07 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Well put, Nita. The only point I can add, based on South Carolina, is that I
didn't submit the tax, BL did. I can't apply for the refund, even if
I have other offsetting taxes paid (i.e. a retail store). BL has to apply for
the refund, or legally assign the rights to the refund.
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| | | | | Author: | watch505 | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 15:23 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| They aren't required to offer exemptions, most businesses do because it benefits
everyone.
Bricklink promised a solution in the 2nd quarter for 2021, that didn't happen.
Last week a panel was held to understand "the need for exemptions".
My take away from the meeting was:
1. They are aware it's an issue
2. Bricklink team wasn't on the same page as LEGO tax compliance on how hard
being compliant on exemptions is: they thought that they had to police individual
transactions even after verifying certificates- they don't.
3. Bricklink's backend software is archaic and makes everything "hard"
4. I'm still not convinced they understand the urgency or have made it a
priority to find a quick solution.
I'm not sure why they can't do this:
-Start with MTC certificates
-verify the certificates
-Allow verified buyers the ability to use a version of the vat exemption system
at checkout: Enter a pin or tax ID that disables tax.
I would urge everyone to contact CE_Tanja and let them know her know you want
exemptions.
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| | | | | | | Author: | oasis | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 10:16 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | My take away from the meeting was:
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Also well said. I just take issue (with them, not with you) that old software
makes it "hard". That's what I do for a living, and they've already made
the necessary change by implementing the tax collection system. Now, all they
need is a yes/no or true/false flag that calls the tax collection system. Trust
me, it ain't rocket science now.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | watch505 | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 16:10 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| I'm with you, but it's hard when I haven't seen the backend system
to come back at them when they say it's hard.
Please do shoot admin, help desk, and Tanya an email.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | oasis | | Posted: | Jan 29, 2022 12:02 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | Please do shoot admin, help desk, and Tanya an email.
|
I have not received a response to my help desk ticket yet. 4 days, that is unusual.
I do not have contact info for the other two. Is there a way to tag admin here?
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| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 15:54 | | Subject: | Re: BL collecting sales tax on resale purchases | | Viewed: | 103 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, oasis writes:
| | I just got off the phone with my state's department of revenue, and here's
what they said.
BL collects state sales tax from purchases made by all of the US sellers, instead
of collecting our resale certificates. BL owes us all, every penny of that, and
the total keeps climbing with every purchase-for-resale that each of us makes.
I was told that BL has to initiate the refunds, not us. BL has two choices, as
to how to process all of that money back to us.
A) request a total refund from each state, and refund us each individually, or
B) formally, legally assign the refunds to each of us, for us to process with
our state, individually
Either way, it's complicated; B is way more complicated for the sellers.
Either way, BL has to take our resale certificates and stop charging us. I'm
in SC. The options might be different in other states, but the person I spoke
to thinks it's most likely all the same. This is stupid. They owe me about
$400, how much do they owe you?
|
It is my understanding that businesses are not required to offer tax-exempt purchases.
You knowingly placed those orders and paid the sales tax without being able to
apply your certificate, so I would think that BL owes you nothing.
I do hope they implement a functioning system for this as soon as possible!
Jen
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USA, South Carolina
United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Netherlands, Gelderland
