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| | | Author: | Shintaku  | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 09:12 | | Subject: | I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 258 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 09:22 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 94 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
|
It sounds like your local government agency doesn't know what it is doing
then, if they are charging VAT on every order that you import even if VAT is
already collected and displayed correctly.
| | I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
If BL hadn't implemented it, then every seller would have to register for
VAT in every country they sell in, or choose not to sell small orders (under
£135 / 150 EUro) to those countries.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 09:27 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
|
It sounds like your local government agency doesn't know what it is doing
then, if they are charging VAT on every order that you import even if VAT is
already collected and displayed correctly.
| | I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
If BL hadn't implemented it, then every seller would have to register for
VAT in every country they sell in, or choose not to sell small orders (under
£135 / 150 EUro) to those countries.
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It wasn’t a choice of BrickLink to implement it.
BrickLink is a marketplace, it has to comply with the new marketplace laws.
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| | | | | | | Author: | bobnikolov | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 09:38 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 88 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
|
It sounds like your local government agency doesn't know what it is doing
then, if they are charging VAT on every order that you import even if VAT is
already collected and displayed correctly.
|
It happens here too. Even the VAT invoice is attached. So i stopped buying outside
of EU till this is cleared
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 10:33 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, bobnikolov writes:
| | In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
|
It sounds like your local government agency doesn't know what it is doing
then, if they are charging VAT on every order that you import even if VAT is
already collected and displayed correctly.
|
It happens here too. Even the VAT invoice is attached. So i stopped buying outside
of EU till this is cleared
|
So long as BL is supplying sellers with the correct documentation there is not
really any more they can do. The cannot teach incompetent government systems
or officials.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Shintaku | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 11:44 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | In Selling, bobnikolov writes:
| | In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
|
It sounds like your local government agency doesn't know what it is doing
then, if they are charging VAT on every order that you import even if VAT is
already collected and displayed correctly.
|
It happens here too. Even the VAT invoice is attached. So i stopped buying outside
of EU till this is cleared
|
So long as BL is supplying sellers with the correct documentation there is not
really any more they can do. The cannot teach incompetent government systems
or officials.
|
So basically, people from the EU will stop buying outside EU. This will damage
a lot the non-EU sellers.
However, what is the case that the seller did NOT attach the VAT invoice?
Because in this last case the seller did not attach anything and he claims that
bricklink did never send him a VAT invoice.
Is this possible?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 14:22 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | So basically, people from the EU will stop buying outside EU. This will damage
a lot the non-EU sellers.
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Only if they sold a lot into the EU before the EU implemented the VAT collection
scheme. In my view, collecting the VAT is probably just as damaging as double
collecting it. Adding on 20 or so percent to prices in another country is
likely to make buying the same products in the EU more attractive anyway even
if they did manage to check documentation properly and not double charge the
VAT.
Of course, it also damages some EU buyers too, as choice is more limited when
sellers refuse to sell to EU countries that cannot cope properly with the VAT
system on imported items.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 14:54 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | In Selling, bobnikolov writes:
| | In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
|
It sounds like your local government agency doesn't know what it is doing
then, if they are charging VAT on every order that you import even if VAT is
already collected and displayed correctly.
|
It happens here too. Even the VAT invoice is attached. So i stopped buying outside
of EU till this is cleared
|
So long as BL is supplying sellers with the correct documentation there is not
really any more they can do. The cannot teach incompetent government systems
or officials.
|
So basically, people from the EU will stop buying outside EU. This will damage
a lot the non-EU sellers.
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Do you really think the EU cares? Money going outside EU is a loss for businesses
inside EU, so they prefer(!) that you buy inside EU.
| |
However, what is the case that the seller did NOT attach the VAT invoice?
Because in this last case the seller did not attach anything and he claims that
bricklink did never send him a VAT invoice.
Is this possible?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:39 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT - philosophical? | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Protectionism is back in policy and business (as if it ever really left....).
Haven't you all noticed?
"Make America Great again"
"America First"
"Brexit"
These and all the offspring of them have turned us all to even more me-me-me-first
then we already were but were afraid to acknowledge...
That's the modern plague that leaves Covid in the shadow and teaches us about
ourselves.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:56 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT - philosophical? | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, StarBrick writes:
| | Protectionism is back in policy and business (as if it ever really left....).
Haven't you all noticed?
"Make America Great again"
"America First"
"Brexit"
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It is not just America and the UK, of course.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:59 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT - philosophical? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | |
It is not just America and the UK, of course.
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No it isn't indeed:
- China
- Brasil
- Mexico
- Australia
And it's not intended to offend US of UK, so sorry if that was felt.
The list doesn't end fast unfortunately.
It's a phase we need to go through to become aware that this isn't the
way to go. Takes a decade or two I guess....
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 10:19 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT - philosophical? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, StarBrick writes:
| | | |
It is not just America and the UK, of course.
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No it isn't indeed:
- China
- Brasil
- Mexico
- Australia
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| | The list doesn't end fast unfortunately.
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Indeed, there are the 27 EU nations to add to it.
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| | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 12:06 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
Contact Customs and show that you paid twice?
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| | | | | | | Author: | Shintaku | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 12:35 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
Contact Customs and show that you paid twice?
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This is not as easy as you can tell.
You can start a claim, nobody will listen, and in the meantime you've paid
twice.
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| | | | | Author: | Play_It_Again | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 14:30 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| This just happened to one of my buyers in France. I put the receipt on the package
that Bricklink has you download and print showing that it had been paid, then
they charged him again to get the package. The second payment was even higher
($22ish up front / $29ish on receipt). Felt terrible for the guy but I'm
not sure what else I could do at this point. Hopefully this gets sorted soon
as I have a 1-2 orders a month that goes to Europe.
In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
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| | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 14:56 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
|
It's illegal, but who is going to pay for the laywer to prove that?!?
As long as no one does, it can and will continue.
| |
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
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| | | | | | | Author: | runner.caller | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:07 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
It's illegal, but who is going to pay for the laywer to prove that?!?
As long as no one does, it can and will continue.
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Could be worth it if you could get punitive damages too for pain and suffering.
This guy sued his former company for unpaid wages and got a lot more than the
missing $20k
"A federal jury on Wednesday awarded Pursglove $20,775 in back wages, $3 million
for his claim that the company failed to pay him 3.4 million shares of stock
as promised and $3 million in punitive damages."
I'm not saying anyone would make millions, but they could go after the greedy
government agency for the VAT as well as their legal expenses and time.
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| | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 15:09 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
I stopped accepting orders of value below 150 Euro from europe for this reason.
Most couriers, specially CanadaPost do not allow to add IOSS number electronically.
This causes Custom officers not to get the data that VAT was already paid.
I think it is even possible that even if IOSS was electronically submitted, then
some data don't get properly transferred to the authorities (customs) in
European countries.
This is not Bricklink's mistake. They HAD TO implement this and charges VAT
due to new regulations imposed by law for online marketplaces.
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| | | | | | | Author: | faro | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 15:13 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, SezaR writes:
| | In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
I stopped accepting orders of value below 150 Euro from europe for this reason.
Most couriers, specially CanadaPost do not allow to add IOSS number electronically.
This causes Custom officers not to get the data that VAT was already paid.
|
In Germany that is exactly what is needed hmmmmmm
| |
I think it is even possible that even if IOSS was electronically submitted, then
some data don't get properly transferred to the authorities (customs) in
European countries.
This is not Bricklink's mistake. They HAD TO implement this and charges VAT
due to new regulations imposed by law for online marketplaces.
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| | | | | Author: | faro | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 15:10 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
Some in Germany...
Packing invoice at the outside of a package does not work.
VAT has to get electronically recognized with the customs label.
Otherwise you pay double and also the postal charge for collecting VAT.
In about 80% or more my international orders are double VAT-paid by me
I think the problem is that you individually know what to do as a seller for
each different country. This is impossible.
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| | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 15:44 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
|
The EU wants to get a piece of the pie of small sales. Simple as that. In total
this small trades are a huge amount of money. The rest of the world however has
to deal with these new EU rules, do you really think they like doing that?
Vice versa is the same. I really don't like at all that I have to invoice
local US State Tax, that it gets transfered to my PayPal account and that PayPal
is taking it off again, transferring it to BrickLink and we all just have to
hope and pray BrickLink is indeed transferring it to the US State Tax authorities
again.
Local Tax money is travelling all over the world through accounts of people that
have nothing to do with it. And we have only to hope it all goes well.
In the meantime, the 10 richest men in the world has seen their wealth grown
by 100% in just 1 Corona year. There is something really really wrong with the
monetary system.
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| | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 16:37 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | Vice versa is the same. I really don't like at all that I have to invoice
local US State Tax, that it gets transfered to my PayPal account and that PayPal
is taking it off again, transferring it to BrickLink and we all just have to
hope and pray BrickLink is indeed transferring it to the US State Tax authorities
again.
|
It's not the same because U.S. customs won't try to collect state sales
tax when packages from outside the U.S. are delivered into the U.S. You won't
have a U.S. buyer come to you saying, "hey! They wouldn't give me my package
unless I paid sales tax/customs duties! I want a refund!"
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 17:50 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | Vice versa is the same. I really don't like at all that I have to invoice
local US State Tax, that it gets transfered to my PayPal account and that PayPal
is taking it off again, transferring it to BrickLink and we all just have to
hope and pray BrickLink is indeed transferring it to the US State Tax authorities
again.
|
It's not the same because U.S. customs won't try to collect state sales
tax when packages from outside the U.S. are delivered into the U.S. You won't
have a U.S. buyer come to you saying, "hey! They wouldn't give me my package
unless I paid sales tax/customs duties! I want a refund!"
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Not true. They do.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 17:59 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
If that's the case, then I have to think they're not telling the truth
- whereas I have no reason to doubt that EU buyers are being truthful when they
say they're getting hit with VAT a second time.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | faro | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 18:37 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
If that's the case, then I have to think they're not telling the truth
- whereas I have no reason to doubt that EU buyers are being truthful when they
say they're getting hit with VAT a second time.
|
Speaking from personal experience (and I often buy in the US, Canada and so on)
there are 3 things that can happen at the moment (for orders under 150 Euros):
1) Customs declaration is complete and VAT is electronically recognized correctly.
Then the German Post "Deutsche Post" brings you the package to door and you can
take it without problems.
2) Customs declaration is complete but VAT is not electronically recognized.
The the German Post "Deutsche Post" puts a notification in your mail and with
it you can fetch the package from the local postal office the next day. They
do not take money at the door at the moment, due to Corona. So what happens,
e.g. you paid 5 Euros VAT via Bricklink, you have to pay the 5 Euros again and
a standard 6 Euros processing fee making it 16 instead of 5 Euros finally. This
mostly happens to me.
3) Customs declaration is incomplete. Then you get a notification that you have
to directly go to customs office to clarify the situation. If this happens it
is more time consuming and you have to drive a little but you can proove you
paid the VAT afterwards when you print out the invoice and give them a copy.
Of course what you could generally do (I think but did not try) is to get all
the double paid VAT by bringing paperwork to the customs office. But normally
with a small order the 6 Euro processing fee is more expensive than the VAT and
these costs you cannot get back from the customs office.
You cannot really influence if it ends in option 1), 2) or 3). It depends.
I talked to some friendly guys at the customs office between the holidays and
told them about the situation. They understood the problems but also could only
tell me to ask the sellers to electronically recognize the VAT, otherwise they
do not realize that VAT was paid.
My personal procedure is that I live with the double VAT at the moment because
I need parts I sometimes cannot get in the EU and I know that it is complicating,
also for sellers. The other point is that I have made very good experiences with
trustful sellers around the world and I am happy to order in their stores again.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Ellum | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 04:58 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Oh boy you are lucky. In Denmark the handling fee is 22 EUR. I would be furious
if it happened to me.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | psusaxman2000 | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 20:22 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | Vice versa is the same. I really don't like at all that I have to invoice
local US State Tax, that it gets transfered to my PayPal account and that PayPal
is taking it off again, transferring it to BrickLink and we all just have to
hope and pray BrickLink is indeed transferring it to the US State Tax authorities
again.
|
It's not the same because U.S. customs won't try to collect state sales
tax when packages from outside the U.S. are delivered into the U.S. You won't
have a U.S. buyer come to you saying, "hey! They wouldn't give me my package
unless I paid sales tax/customs duties! I want a refund!"
|
Not true. They do.
|
If someone is telling you this, then they are lying to you. US customs will
only hold something if they fell it is illegal or otherwise a problem. They
have nothing to do with sales taxes as they are each managed at the state level.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 20, 2022 21:01 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | If someone is telling you this, then they are lying to you. US customs will
only hold something if they fell it is illegal or otherwise a problem. They
have nothing to do with sales taxes as they are each managed at the state level.
|
And I think there are only customs duties on toys if they are imported to the
U.S. from Cuba or North Korea, etc.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 02:52 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | Vice versa is the same. I really don't like at all that I have to invoice
local US State Tax, that it gets transfered to my PayPal account and that PayPal
is taking it off again, transferring it to BrickLink and we all just have to
hope and pray BrickLink is indeed transferring it to the US State Tax authorities
again.
|
It's not the same because U.S. customs won't try to collect state sales
tax when packages from outside the U.S. are delivered into the U.S. You won't
have a U.S. buyer come to you saying, "hey! They wouldn't give me my package
unless I paid sales tax/customs duties! I want a refund!"
|
Not true. They do.
|
If someone is telling you this, then they are lying to you. US customs will
only hold something if they fell it is illegal or otherwise a problem. They
have nothing to do with sales taxes as they are each managed at the state level.
|
Well, obviously I can't give any details but also obviously I have emails
to prove this. Emails from shipping company / customs that shipment was on hold
until taxes were paid. Despite the fact that local state taxes were already paid
to BrickLink through PayPal.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 02:59 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | […]
Well, obviously I can't give any details but also obviously I have emails
to prove this. Emails from shipping company / customs that shipment was on hold
until taxes were paid. Despite the fact that local state taxes were already paid
to BrickLink through PayPal.
|
Can you tell us what was the amount (of the product)?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 03:00 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | […]
Well, obviously I can't give any details but also obviously I have emails
to prove this. Emails from shipping company / customs that shipment was on hold
until taxes were paid. Despite the fact that local state taxes were already paid
to BrickLink through PayPal.
|
Can you tell us what was the amount (of the product)?
|
Nope, no details, sorry.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 06:41 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | […]
Well, obviously I can't give any details but also obviously I have emails
to prove this. Emails from shipping company / customs that shipment was on hold
until taxes were paid. Despite the fact that local state taxes were already paid
to BrickLink through PayPal.
|
Can you tell us what was the amount (of the product)?
|
Nope, no details, sorry.
|
If above 800$ there is a threshold
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 06:25 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | Well, obviously I can't give any details but also obviously I have emails
to prove this. Emails from shipping company / customs that shipment was on hold
until taxes were paid. Despite the fact that local state taxes were already paid
to BrickLink through PayPal.
|
Then the courier and/or customs is lying or mistaken. You can see in Chapter
95 that toys are not subject to customs duty when imported from most countries,
and U.S. Customs does not collect sales taxes:
https://hts.usitc.gov/current
I would find it hard to believe that a courier would be able to collect sales
taxes when even Customs does not.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 04:31 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| I think it's more about discouraging people from buying outside of the EU,
which makes sense IMHO.
Non-European goods (genuine and counterfeit or under-valued) are flooding our
markets and are making life for European businesses very hard.
I know from personal experience that these cases of double charged VAT can be
a serious PITA, but it's almost always the seller's / shipper's fault.
If the company sending the goods does not enter the BL IOSS nr (which the seller
has to properly provide to them) into the automated system it's hardly the
European country's postal service's fault for charging VAT when there's
no proof (in the automated system) that VAT has already been paid.
There's millions and millions of e-commerce packages arriving in each member
state on a daily basis. Do you truly believe they'd be able to verify the
paper documents for each and every parcel? Dream on 
What I propose is that when a buyer can deliver proof that he / she had to pay
VAT again on delivery the seller is olbigated to refund this VAT which BL can
refund to the seller.
In the end it's the platform (aka BL) that has the obligation to fulfill
the VAT duties.
If you don't have trust in the platform you're using to earn your living
then perhaps you should consider changing platforms or creating your own.
Erikk
In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| |
The EU wants to get a piece of the pie of small sales. Simple as that. In total
this small trades are a huge amount of money. The rest of the world however has
to deal with these new EU rules, do you really think they like doing that?
Vice versa is the same. I really don't like at all that I have to invoice
local US State Tax, that it gets transfered to my PayPal account and that PayPal
is taking it off again, transferring it to BrickLink and we all just have to
hope and pray BrickLink is indeed transferring it to the US State Tax authorities
again.
Local Tax money is travelling all over the world through accounts of people that
have nothing to do with it. And we have only to hope it all goes well.
In the meantime, the 10 richest men in the world has seen their wealth grown
by 100% in just 1 Corona year. There is something really really wrong with the
monetary system.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 05:11 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | | What I propose is that when a buyer can deliver proof that he / she had to pay
VAT again on delivery the seller is olbigated to refund this VAT which BL can
refund to the seller.
In the end it's the platform (aka BL) that has the obligation to fulfill
the VAT duties.
|
It should really be the other way around. If the buyer can prove they already
paid it then the collection agency should refund the VAT they are double charging.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 05:23 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| No, they shouldn't. They did their work correctly. If they don't see
an IOSS nr allocated to the parcel they are obligated to charge VAT. Period.
Again: if the IOSS nr is not visible in the automated system for the company
delivering the parcel in the EU member state (postal services or courrier) then
VAT will be charged automatically as per EU legislational obligation.
I work for Customs myself and I can tell you that about half of the parcel arriving
via Bpost do not have an IOSS nr allocated to the declaration. I'm sure many
of those buyers DID pay VAT at invoice.
It is the seller's obligation to make sure the IOSS nr is properly communicated
with their shipper. It's nowhere the buyer's responsibility.
If the shipper is at fault it is still the seller's responsibility to refund
the buyer as is the same for goods lost / destroyed in transit.
Erikk
In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| |
It should really be the other way around. If the buyer can prove they already
paid it then the collection agency should refund the VAT they are double charging.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Llewyn | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 06:06 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | Again: if the IOSS nr is not visible in the automated system for the company
delivering the parcel in the EU member state (postal services or courrier) then
VAT will be charged automatically as per EU legislational obligation.
|
Citation needed.
I've read the relevant directives and regulations around this VAT change
and haven't noticed anything requiring electronic communication of the IOSS
number. Perhaps you can point out where I should be looking.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 06:44 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Llewyn writes:
| | In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | Again: if the IOSS nr is not visible in the automated system for the company
delivering the parcel in the EU member state (postal services or courrier) then
VAT will be charged automatically as per EU legislational obligation.
|
Citation needed.
I've read the relevant directives and regulations around this VAT change
and haven't noticed anything requiring electronic communication of the IOSS
number. Perhaps you can point out where I should be looking.
|
It’s not in the VAT changes regulations, it’s an older regulation that everything
going through customs should be electronic.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Llewyn | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:05 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | It’s not in the VAT changes regulations, it’s an older regulation that everything
going through customs should be electronic.
|
Other than the CN22, presumably.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:34 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Llewyn writes:
| | In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | It’s not in the VAT changes regulations, it’s an older regulation that everything
going through customs should be electronic.
|
Other than the CN22, presumably.
|
AFAICT from what I read about that other regulation, the paper CN22 is just a
copy / failsafe, everything that’s on it is to be transmitted electronically.
(That’s the screenshot Erkiles showed. Someone entered that info on a computer
somewhere.)
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 08:45 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| "The IOSS allows suppliers and electronic interfaces selling imported
goods to buyers in the EU to collect, declare and pay the VAT to the tax authorities".
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ioss_en
The whole idea of IOSS has been designed for e-commerce, emphasis on the
"e" for electronic, aka automated systems.
As I've said before: there's no entity that could work through the amount
of parcels arriving daily by hand. You'd need a workforce of at least 10000
people checking parcels 24/7. Or people should expcect delivery times of up to
2 years 
If people are expecting their postal services or courrier to manually check their
parcel for an IOSS nr on the CN22/CN23 slip they are not being realistic IMO.
Erikk
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:03 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:33 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, calsbricks writes:
| | In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | "The IOSS allows suppliers and electronic interfaces selling imported
goods to buyers in the EU to collect, declare and pay the VAT to the tax authorities".
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ioss_en
The whole idea of IOSS has been designed for e-commerce, emphasis on the
"e" for electronic, aka automated systems.
As I've said before: there's no entity that could work through the amount
of parcels arriving daily by hand. You'd need a workforce of at least 10000
people checking parcels 24/7. Or people should expcect delivery times of up to
2 years
If people are expecting their postal services or courrier to manually check their
parcel for an IOSS nr on the CN22/CN23 slip they are not being realistic IMO.
Erikk
|
Hi Erikk
Design is one side of this issue - the other and perhaps more important is the
implementation. Trying to coordinate the rest of the world to a EU specific
system has not gone well. Some areas seem okay and others are a long way short.
And that is with or without an electronic version.
Overall a score of very low for the overall project.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:42 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| Could not agree more with you, unfortunately
Erikk
In Selling, calsbricks writes:
| | | |
Design is one side of this issue - the other and perhaps more important is the
implementation. Trying to coordinate the rest of the world to a EU specific
system has not gone well. Some areas seem okay and others are a long way short.
And that is with or without an electronic version.
Overall a score of very low for the overall project.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Llewyn | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:04 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | "The IOSS allows suppliers and electronic interfaces selling imported
goods to buyers in the EU to collect, declare and pay the VAT to the tax authorities".
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ioss_en
The whole idea of IOSS has been designed for e-commerce, emphasis on the
"e" for electronic, aka automated systems.
As I've said before: there's no entity that could work through the amount
of parcels arriving daily by hand. You'd need a workforce of at least 10000
people checking parcels 24/7. Or people should expcect delivery times of up to
2 years
If people are expecting their postal services or courrier to manually check their
parcel for an IOSS nr on the CN22/CN23 slip they are not being realistic IMO.
|
Electronic interfaces refers to online marketplaces, it doesn't refer to
couriers.
I've seen nothing to indicate that the IOSS has to be communicated electronically,
except perhaps in individual member states' implementations of the directive.
You helpfully refer to the CN22/CN23, which is a paper document for customs inspection
which is required to be attached. You theoretically look at every single one
of those so yes, I would expect the IOSS inspection to happen (or realistically
not happen due to the volume issues you describe) in exactly the same way.
There is, as far as I'm aware, no requirement in EU legislation for the IOSS
number to be communicated electronically with the parcel.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 10:03 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| Please check my previous posts on this: Customs do not check each and every parcel
that enters a member state. It's not even feasible to check 1% of all parcels
entering the EU.
Certain parcel get a red flag due certain parameters or even random checks but
99.999999% of all parcels are electronically handled by the postal services /
courriers.
As to your remark regarding the "obligation" to do this electronically, I'd
like to refer you to this page:
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/news/new-form-customs-declaration-low-value-consignments-2019-07-11_en
It's an older page from the EC stating the companies should start developing
the necessary software to be able to declare H7 customs declarations.
So there is an obligation to declare low value shipments electronically:
From 1 January 2021 the existing VAT exemption for goods up to 22 € will disappear.
In order to allow VAT to be levied, all imports into the EU will have to be declared
at the border using an electronic customs declaration.
Full legislation:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv J.L_.2019.181.01.0002.01.ENG&toc=OJ:L:2019:181:TOC
You as a lay person are obviously under no obligation to fill in any kind of
customs declaration. That obligation lies solely with the entitiy shipping your
parcel and the company importing and delivering your package. You as a sender
are obligated to provide the necessary details to them to fill in any such form.
The CN22/CN23 form is nothing more than a summary of the declaration's details
on the outside of the parcel.
All those details (and often more) have been filled in already at that point
into a digital system as there doesn't exist a company on this planet that
would do this manually.
As to mentioning the IOSS nr: there isn't on obligation to use an IOSS nr,
period. Any European citizen is free to import (legal) goods without paying taxes
at checkout. There are still hundreds of thousands of webshops outthere who don't
use the IOSS functionality.
But IF you want to be able to benefit from such a system you need to provide
the necessary details to Customs at declaration level (meaning your shipper needs
to do this).
H7 is a highly simplified declaration system created to handle a huge amount
of parcels on a daily basis. Over 800 million such parcels pass Belgium each
year, can you imagine the nrs for countries like France or Germany?
It has been designed to work fast with little to no "wiggle room" for travesties
like IOSS not being properly handled.
As Calsbricks rightfully stated, it is still a heavy flawed system with various
results in each member state as far as I'm aware and which will create hiccups
until 2024-205 I'm afraid at this rate.
Just to be clear: it's not something I'm personally happy about. I have
had to pay double VAT twice now on American orders, so I do share the frustration
of many.
Erikk
In Selling, Llewyn writes:
| | Electronic interfaces refers to online marketplaces, it doesn't refer to
couriers.
I've seen nothing to indicate that the IOSS has to be communicated electronically,
except perhaps in individual member states' implementations of the directive.
You helpfully refer to the CN22/CN23, which is a paper document for customs inspection
which is required to be attached. You theoretically look at every single one
of those so yes, I would expect the IOSS inspection to happen (or realistically
not happen due to the volume issues you describe) in exactly the same way.
There is, as far as I'm aware, no requirement in EU legislation for the IOSS
number to be communicated electronically with the parcel.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Llewyn | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:05 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:48 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | | As I've said before: there's no entity that could work through the amount
of parcels arriving daily by hand. You'd need a workforce of at least 10000
people checking parcels 24/7. Or people should expcect delivery times of up to
2 years
If people are expecting their postal services or courrier to manually check their
parcel for an IOSS nr on the CN22/CN23 slip they are not being realistic IMO.
|
Although they can of course assess by hand the (double) tax on all those parcels,
from written (not electronic) documentation that was included on the parcel.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 09:51 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | If people are expecting their postal services or courrier to manually check their
parcel for an IOSS nr on the CN22/CN23 slip they are not being realistic IMO.
|
Although they can of course assess by hand the (double) tax on all those parcels,
from written (not electronic) documentation that was included on the parcel.
|
At the very least there should be an appeals process. Something like: "I was
charged VAT twice despite the required IOSS number being on the CN22/CN23 slip
on my package." "OK, please submit a scan of the slip."
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Shintaku | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 06:24 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | No, they shouldn't. They did their work correctly. If they don't see
an IOSS nr allocated to the parcel they are obligated to charge VAT. Period.
Again: if the IOSS nr is not visible in the automated system for the company
delivering the parcel in the EU member state (postal services or courrier) then
VAT will be charged automatically as per EU legislational obligation.
I work for Customs myself and I can tell you that about half of the parcel arriving
via Bpost do not have an IOSS nr allocated to the declaration. I'm sure many
of those buyers DID pay VAT at invoice.
It is the seller's obligation to make sure the IOSS nr is properly communicated
with their shipper. It's nowhere the buyer's responsibility.
If the shipper is at fault it is still the seller's responsibility to refund
the buyer as is the same for goods lost / destroyed in transit.
Erikk
|
This!
Yes, Erikk is totally right. It's the seller's obbligation to make sure
that the IOSS is properly communicated.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 06:46 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | | It is the seller's obligation to make sure the IOSS nr is properly communicated
with their shipper. It's nowhere the buyer's responsibility.
If the shipper is at fault it is still the seller's responsibility to refund
the buyer as is the same for goods lost / destroyed in transit.
|
I put in my terms that there is no way I can make sure the IOSS nr is properly
communicated with the shipper. Out beloved CanadaPost does not accept IOSS nr
and the other courier I use got IOSS nr. but still, a customer in Poland was
charged VAT for second time.
I put in my terms that buyer accept that there is nothing I can do, unless shipping
with UPS which is very expensive, and the extra shipping cost will be more than
if VAT gets charged twice.
But as some user may want to consider me at fault and request me to refund him,
I resolve the problem easily: min buy for European is 150 EURO (so that Bricklink
does not collect VAT)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 07:46 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | It is the seller's obligation to make sure the IOSS nr is properly communicated
with their shipper. It's nowhere the buyer's responsibility.
If the shipper is at fault it is still the seller's responsibility to refund
the buyer as is the same for goods lost / destroyed in transit.
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And if postage companies are not passing these on to customs even though they
are included by the seller, I can understand why (some) sellers no longer want
to do business with EU customers. Until marketplaces, shippers and customs sort
out the situation, I can understand small businesses not wanting to take the
loss on many items sent into the EU.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | stevetq2 | | Posted: | Feb 6, 2022 06:30 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| I used to send orders to the EU using the correct Royal Mail process, entering
the IOSS number of their system and printing off the postage label from the Royal
Mail site. Packages had the IOSS logo on it with the QR code and ALL documentation
and I assume the process/system from Royal Mail is correct but still EU Customs
are charging VAT before they will deliver. In addition they are insisting on
full instructions, CE documentation and 'licence' approvals for what
are 2nd hand items that were made in the EU in the first place.
I have NO problems sending exactly the same things to Norway and Switzerland
and even Australia which has some of the most rigorous customs regime in the
world. The EU still can't get over the UK leaving and is still trying to
'punish' it while actually it is 'punishing' it's own citizens
who want to buy what we have but no longer can for NO good reason.
Steve
In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | No, they shouldn't. They did their work correctly. If they don't see
an IOSS nr allocated to the parcel they are obligated to charge VAT. Period.
Again: if the IOSS nr is not visible in the automated system for the company
delivering the parcel in the EU member state (postal services or courrier) then
VAT will be charged automatically as per EU legislational obligation.
I work for Customs myself and I can tell you that about half of the parcel arriving
via Bpost do not have an IOSS nr allocated to the declaration. I'm sure many
of those buyers DID pay VAT at invoice.
It is the seller's obligation to make sure the IOSS nr is properly communicated
with their shipper. It's nowhere the buyer's responsibility.
If the shipper is at fault it is still the seller's responsibility to refund
the buyer as is the same for goods lost / destroyed in transit.
Erikk
In Selling, yorbrick writes:
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It should really be the other way around. If the buyer can prove they already
paid it then the collection agency should refund the VAT they are double charging.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bobnikolov | | Posted: | Feb 6, 2022 07:37 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, stevetq2 writes:
| | I have NO problems sending exactly the same things to Norway and Switzerland
and even Australia which has some of the most rigorous customs regime in the
world. The EU still can't get over the UK leaving and is still trying to
'punish' it while actually it is 'punishing' it's own citizens
who want to buy what we have but no longer can for NO good reason.
Steve
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I guess that's no true cause i had two orders from Russia, both were with
all documents needed outside of package and i paid double VAT on both orders.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | stevetq2 | | Posted: | Feb 6, 2022 08:41 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Based on your experience it sounds like the EU are running short of money and
need to double charge VAT as a matter of course  On a more serious note the
EU are causing self inflicted damage on themselves here by not following the
rules they themselves say they want everyone else to abide by. The UK have recently
started (01/01/2022) to check ALL EU goods coming into the UK and EU Countries
now have to fill in all the silly paperwork they insist the UK fill in, perhaps
once they've had a bit of their own medicine they will come to the table
and work out a more pragmatic solution, until then, although I would love to
sell to our European friends, I will not risk my business by trading with the
EU.
Steve
In Selling, bobnikolov writes:
| | In Selling, stevetq2 writes:
| | I have NO problems sending exactly the same things to Norway and Switzerland
and even Australia which has some of the most rigorous customs regime in the
world. The EU still can't get over the UK leaving and is still trying to
'punish' it while actually it is 'punishing' it's own citizens
who want to buy what we have but no longer can for NO good reason.
Steve
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I guess that's no true cause i had two orders from Russia, both were with
all documents needed outside of package and i paid double VAT on both orders.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 05:15 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | I think it's more about discouraging people from buying outside of the EU,
which makes sense IMHO.
Non-European goods (genuine and counterfeit or under-valued) are flooding our
markets and are making life for European businesses very hard.
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Yes, charging VAT is to help protect businesses inside a trading block from cheap
goods imported from outside without those taxes being paid, and stopping citizens
from avoiding paying VAT on imports. I don't think anyone can really argue
against the collection of VAT.
Double charging VAT is different though.
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| | | | | | | Author: | WildBricks | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 08:26 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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Local Tax money is travelling all over the world through accounts of people that
have nothing to do with it. And we have only to hope it all goes well.
In the meantime, the 10 richest men in the world has seen their wealth grown
by 100% in just 1 Corona year. There is something really really wrong with the
monetary system.
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+1. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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| | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 05:12 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
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I believe the double taxation is due to the lack of an IOSS registration number.
It is not enough to have it on the invoice and on or in the package, it is absolutely
necessary to have it also on the registration form (CN22/CN23)!
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| | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2022 05:36 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Just to show everyone what Customs see in their system when declarations enter
the automated system: the nr you see on the left of the origin country code is
the IOSS nr.
For those where that field is empty VAT will automatically be calculated and
charged by the company handling the delivery of the parcel.
In both cases the parcel will then be presented to Customs (via an automated
system) to verify if the declared value is acceptable or whether further checks
considering health / economic regulations are deemed necessary.
So the IOSS check is happening by the automated system of the company handling
your package and not by Customs as many here seem to think. So asking Customs
to refund your VAT is pointless.
IMO, the only party that can and should refund your VAT is the seller* as they
are responsible for the shipment.
Let's say you order a 400USD set from an American seller. Without your knowledge
that seller puts 10USD as declared value and "gift" as description (with an invoice
in the parcel).
The buyer in this case will end up with a hefty surcharge of VAT and import duties
and in some cases might even receive a fine for tax evasion.
Who do you think should refund these extra costs then?
Erikk
*by this I mean it would be the seller refunding the buyer but ultimately
Bricklink should obviously refund said seller afterwards
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| | | | | Author: | silverblack | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 09:34 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Same thing to me and the Italian post office told me to verify the actual payment
of VAT by the seller which the seller tells me are actually managed by Bricklink.
So has Bricklink not paid VAT? or does the Italian customs not consider the IOSS
mechanism?
If they do not remove this double VAT, I will no longer make purchases outside
the EU!
In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
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| | | | | Author: | bricksinbins | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 08:25 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Shintaku writes:
| | This is happening every single time.
I buy on an extra EU store, then I have to pay VAT.
I didn't until some months ago, so now it's very annoying, but ok.
Then, I expect that VAT is paid and I have nothing more to pay.
And every single time I receive a package, the postman says there's more
to pay.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.
If the seller didn't attach the VAT invoice, that's the seller to blame.
But it happened also with VAT invoice attached.
I am tired of paying double every time. Bricklink did a mistake forcing us to
pay the VAT in advance, I'll stop buying from extra EU if this doesn't
find a solution soon.
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Are you sure it's not duty you have to pay when receiving the package. VAT
and customs duty are not the same thing. You still have to pay customs duty even
if the VAT has been paid.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 26, 2022 08:41 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, bricksinbins writes:
| | […]
Are you sure it's not duty you have to pay when receiving the package. VAT
and customs duty are not the same thing. You still have to pay customs duty even
if the VAT has been paid.
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No, it can’t be that because there’s no duty below €150 in EU. That’s why it’s
the threshold.
Below €150: only VAT, so it’s easy¹ to make the marketplaces collect it. (¹
For a certain value of “easy” )
Above €150: there’s duty, so it has to be assessed by customs. And there’s VAT
on duty, so the marketplaces can’t easily know about it or there would still
be VAT to pay on duty if you make marketplaces collect VAT on the rest.
It’s really a problem with communication: customs don’t know the VAT was already
paid. They don’t read what’s on the packages, they treat most packages electronically.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bricksinbins | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2022 08:40 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, bricksinbins writes:
| | […]
Are you sure it's not duty you have to pay when receiving the package. VAT
and customs duty are not the same thing. You still have to pay customs duty even
if the VAT has been paid.
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No, it can’t be that because there’s no duty below €150 in EU. That’s why it’s
the threshold.
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Really? I thought it all applied from zero and up now. VAT after the fact if
over 150 yes. Well, that's good to know if it is indeed the case. That would
mean ordering from outside EU up to 150 would be less than it used to. It's
almost unbelievable they would have done such a thing...
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2022 08:56 | | Subject: | Re: I paid VAT on buying, and VAT again receiving | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, bricksinbins writes:
| | […]
| | No, it can’t be that because there’s no duty below €150 in EU. That’s why it’s
the threshold.
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Really? I thought it all applied from zero and up now. VAT after the fact if
over 150 yes.
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“The customs duty relief for goods with an intrinsic value not exceeding EUR
150 imported
into the EU remains in place. That means that no customs duty has to be paid
for goods in a
consignment imported into the EU whose intrinsic value does not exceed EUR 150
(except
for alcoholic products, perfumes, toilet waters, tobacco and tobacco products).”
P. 50 of https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/system/files/2020-09/vatecommerceexplanatory_notes_30092020.pdf
“[R]emains in place”: it was there, it’s still there.
| | Well, that's good to know if it is indeed the case. That would
mean ordering from outside EU up to 150 would be less than it used to. It's
almost unbelievable they would have done such a thing...
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For buyers, it’s:
— €0-€22: a loss, there was no VAT before,
— €22-€150: a win, no more brokage fee to pay to the postal services,
— €150-: the same as before.
Well… if you aren’t double-VATed as OP was.
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Italy, Lombardia
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