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| | | Author: | par016  | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:02 | | Subject: | Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 200 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
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| | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:07 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
Do you have any settings in use on this page which might explain it?
https://www.bricklink.com/priceGuideSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
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| | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:14 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
Do you have any settings in use on this page which might explain it?
https://www.bricklink.com/priceGuideSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
|
Nothing I am seeing. I have attached a screenshot of my settings. Do you see
anything that might affect it.
For the record, on my first message I did "group by currency" to easier show
the price comparison. Even when I uncheck that though, the estimate USD price
is way too high.
-Pete
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:09 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
When did you place the order ? I see a 37.81 in the September part, but not in
the October part.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:15 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
When did you place the order ? I see a 37.81 in the September part, but not in
the October part.
Nita Rae
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Yesterday
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:06 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
When did you place the order ? I see a 37.81 in the September part, but not in
the October part.
Nita Rae
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Yesterday
-Pete
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Some aspects of a recent order, do not appear immediately. An order I placed
four days ago, and not yet invoiced, is not appearing on the seller's chart
of orders. It is appearing in the price guide tho.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:17 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| You're viewing the priceguide in Euro; perhaps VAT is included? That would
account for the 20%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
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| | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:19 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:22 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
|
Interesting. This also happened on an order from France, is that also the reason
there?
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:33 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
|
Interesting. This also happened on an order from France, is that also the reason
there?
-Pete
|
Also as someone who is unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the VAT system, I
think I understand the basic concept, but to the best of my knowledge I don't
think I paid that VAT in my order so I don't understand why it would be reflected
in the price guide?
When I purchase an order in the US and pay NYS sales tax on the item, that is
not captured in the price guide. So it does not make sense to me why VAT would.
But I am possibly just not understanding exactly how VAT works. Maybe someone
can help me out here.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 09:52 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| You should not see this price. It´s a bug. The programmers here are not exactly
the best...
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
|
Interesting. This also happened on an order from France, is that also the reason
there?
-Pete
|
Also as someone who is unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the VAT system, I
think I understand the basic concept, but to the best of my knowledge I don't
think I paid that VAT in my order so I don't understand why it would be reflected
in the price guide?
When I purchase an order in the US and pay NYS sales tax on the item, that is
not captured in the price guide. So it does not make sense to me why VAT would.
But I am possibly just not understanding exactly how VAT works. Maybe someone
can help me out here.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:03 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| | | Also as someone who is unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the VAT system, I
think I understand the basic concept, but to the best of my knowledge I don't
think I paid that VAT in my order so I don't understand why it would be reflected
in the price guide?
When I purchase an order in the US and pay NYS sales tax on the item, that is
not captured in the price guide. So it does not make sense to me why VAT would.
But I am possibly just not understanding exactly how VAT works. Maybe someone
can help me out here.
|
You shouldn't be paying VAT at all should you? Just your local state sales
tax.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:50 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
|
Interesting. This also happened on an order from France, is that also the reason
there?
-Pete
|
Also as someone who is unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the VAT system, I
think I understand the basic concept, but to the best of my knowledge I don't
think I paid that VAT in my order so I don't understand why it would be reflected
in the price guide?
When I purchase an order in the US and pay NYS sales tax on the item, that is
not captured in the price guide. So it does not make sense to me why VAT would.
But I am possibly just not understanding exactly how VAT works. Maybe someone
can help me out here.
-Pete
|
But why are you viewing it in EUR? Because from an EU perspective, the price
is reflected accurately. In the EU prices include VAT, so if I take that priceguide
price and substract the VAT amount, I arrive exactly at what you paid for the
item.
As far as I can see the priceguide is working correctly.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:03 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
|
Interesting. This also happened on an order from France, is that also the reason
there?
-Pete
|
Also as someone who is unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the VAT system, I
think I understand the basic concept, but to the best of my knowledge I don't
think I paid that VAT in my order so I don't understand why it would be reflected
in the price guide?
When I purchase an order in the US and pay NYS sales tax on the item, that is
not captured in the price guide. So it does not make sense to me why VAT would.
But I am possibly just not understanding exactly how VAT works. Maybe someone
can help me out here.
-Pete
|
But why are you viewing it in EUR? Because from an EU perspective, the price
is reflected accurately. In the EU prices include VAT, so if I take that priceguide
price and substract the VAT amount, I arrive exactly at what you paid for the
item.
As far as I can see the priceguide is working correctly.
|
If the price guide worked correctly, you should see the same amount on both sides.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:10 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
I attached 2 screenshots. The first shows the item in my order, the second shows
the price guide with the sold price listed at almost 20% higher than what I paid.
You can also see that the seller still has the figure listed in their store
at the same price I paid for it. So it just seems to a be an issue with the
sold price in the price guide.
Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
-Pete
|
|
Interesting. This also happened on an order from France, is that also the reason
there?
-Pete
|
Also as someone who is unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the VAT system, I
think I understand the basic concept, but to the best of my knowledge I don't
think I paid that VAT in my order so I don't understand why it would be reflected
in the price guide?
When I purchase an order in the US and pay NYS sales tax on the item, that is
not captured in the price guide. So it does not make sense to me why VAT would.
But I am possibly just not understanding exactly how VAT works. Maybe someone
can help me out here.
-Pete
|
But why are you viewing it in EUR? Because from an EU perspective, the price
is reflected accurately. In the EU prices include VAT, so if I take that priceguide
price and substract the VAT amount, I arrive exactly at what you paid for the
item.
As far as I can see the priceguide is working correctly.
|
If the price guide worked correctly, you should see the same amount on both sides.
|
Yup, this is my exact conclusion. We can debate whether VAT should be shown
or not in the PG, but at the very least the prices should be consistent between
what is currently available and what was sold.
IMO the price guide should not show VAT because not everyone has to pay VAT.
And as a point of consistency, it does not currently show sales tax.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 13:37 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | […]
IMO the price guide should not show VAT because not everyone has to pay VAT.
And as a point of consistency, it does not currently show sales tax.
-Pete
|
Except that when VAT is due, the price HAS TO include the VAT (which is not the
case of sales tax).
And the PG shows current prices for items that are for sale, so those items have
to include VAT for EU (or UK) buyers… but only from EU (or UK) sellers¹.
So, if the PG never shows VAT for the Sold items columns but shows them in the
For Sale columns, the PG is again wrong, confusing, and useless.
There’s no other solution than to show whether sold and for sales items include(d)
VAT or not. Which will be confusing (more numbers and symbols) but more accurate.
¹ And not from other sellers: because if the seller doesn’t collect VAT, only
BL _may_ collect it and doesn’t have to include it.
So EU (resp. UK) sellers appears dearer than other sellers in the For Sale columns
for EU (resp. UK) buyers.
Confusing enough?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | qwertyboy | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 13:37 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | And as a point of consistency, it does not currently show sales tax.
|
This is likely because of what consumers are used to. In Europe, whenever you
shop, prices are shown including VAT - people expect to see the "total" price.
In the US, whenever you shop, prices are shown excluding taxes - people expect
to have to pay sales tax on top of a shown price.
I have seen Europeans get caught out by this difference - on an airport, trying
to ditch their last US coins, shopping to make every US cent count, arriving
at the register and then being told they actually have to pay more.
Niek.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 13:40 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, qwertyboy writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | And as a point of consistency, it does not currently show sales tax.
|
This is likely because of what consumers are used to. In Europe, whenever you
shop, prices are shown including VAT - people expect to see the "total" price.
In the US, whenever you shop, prices are shown excluding taxes - people expect
to have to pay sales tax on top of a shown price.
I have seen Europeans get caught out by this difference - on an airport, trying
to ditch their last US coins, shopping to make every US cent count, arriving
at the register and then being told they actually have to pay more.
Niek.
|
It’s not only habit, it’s the law. Nothing like the law to make you take an
habit 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 15:36 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Technical Issues, qwertyboy writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | And as a point of consistency, it does not currently show sales tax.
|
This is likely because of what consumers are used to. In Europe, whenever you
shop, prices are shown including VAT - people expect to see the "total" price.
In the US, whenever you shop, prices are shown excluding taxes - people expect
to have to pay sales tax on top of a shown price.
I have seen Europeans get caught out by this difference - on an airport, trying
to ditch their last US coins, shopping to make every US cent count, arriving
at the register and then being told they actually have to pay more.
Niek.
|
It’s not only habit, it’s the law. Nothing like the law to make you take an
habit
|
So here is what I think is happening based on all the comments made so far.
Different people see different prices for the current listing in the price
guide. It sounds like this is based on your location. If you are in the EU,
you see VAT included in the price. If you are outside a location you would need
to pay VAT then you don't see the price included. I cannot verify this,
I can only verify that I myself cannot see VAT included in prices and I am in
the US. Maybe someone else can confirm my theory for inside the EU.
The problem comes when an item is purchased. I would guess that the sold prices
are static. They can't show a different price for you and a different price
for me. They have to pick one. And right now, the price guide is chosing the
price with the VAT included.
The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
I don't know EU law, but from what has been said it sounds like the sale
price needs to include VAT. I would assume that only is in reference for prices
for sale though and not for an account of sold listings especially not ones where
VAT was never actually paid. Maybe I am wrong about this, but I can't see
there being a law that says you have to include VAT when catloging the price
of an item sold without VAT.
If that is true, I think the price guide should reflect the cost actually spent
on the item. If the buyer is paying VAT, sure include that if that's what
people in the EU want. But it doesn't make any sense to add VAT in the
price guide when it was never paid.
-Pete
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 15:48 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
|
I think many of us are saying the same thing ... that the PG needs to show the
sales one way (what the buyer paid based on regulatory requirements) and a second
way (what the basic cost was ex-VAT and ex-ST, so that we have a common point
to compare one sale against another). Showing some completed sales with VAT and
some without VAT is where the PG averages are getting skewed. In fact, averages
probably should only be calculated based on the second method.
Nita Rae
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 16:22 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
|
I think many of us are saying the same thing ... that the PG needs to show the
sales one way (what the buyer paid based on regulatory requirements) and a second
way (what the basic cost was ex-VAT and ex-ST, so that we have a common point
to compare one sale against another). Showing some completed sales with VAT and
some without VAT is where the PG averages are getting skewed. In fact, averages
probably should only be calculated based on the second method.
Nita Rae
|
I agree, but what I was trying to indicate is that the price guide doesn't
seem to be doing what you say. It is averaging together some prices with VAT
and some without like you said but it's not doing it based on the sale/what
was paid by the buyer, it's doing it based on the location of the store.
So any store that sells in the EU where VAT laws apply, the price guide is adding
in that VAT whether or not it is was paid by the buyer.
For instance, someone in Germany lists a 10 Euro figure. A buyer in Germany
sees 12 Euro, I see 10 Euro being in the US. If a German buyer places and order
for that figure, they pay 10 Euro + 2 Euro VAT and then the price guide shows
a sold listing at 12 Euro. However, if I buy that figure from the US, I pay
10 Euro plus about 1 Euro in NYS sales tax. In this case the price guide also
shows a sold listing as 12 Euro. That does not make any sense.
Even though I never paid VAT, that is being added to the price guide. That's
the biggest issue here imo. The consistency between sales tax not being added
and VAT being added to the price guide is also a problem, but it is a different
problem, and honestly a much more challenging problem to solve. Both regions
are accustomed to their own laws and neither region is going to just adopt the
other's way because BrickLink says so.
-Pete
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 17:41 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | […]
Even though I never paid VAT, that is being added to the price guide. That's
the biggest issue here imo.
|
Agreed.
| | The consistency between sales tax not being added
and VAT being added to the price guide is also a problem, but it is a different
problem, and honestly a much more challenging problem to solve. Both regions
are accustomed to their own laws and neither region is going to just adopt the
other's way because BrickLink says so.
-Pete
|
Yes, it’s complicated and confusing (but when is a page full of tiny numbers
not confusing?). But I believe it’s solvable by showing which prices include
VAT¹.
And skimming over the thread Stellar referred to ( https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=290050
), and looking at how the PG works, I’m reminded of this scene in Always,
where Richard Dreyfuss, then a ghost, talks through a Shaman….
———
¹ Even for non-EU (or non-UK) members: I think a US buyer should be interested
to know that the sale was €12 but they could have had it for €10 (or, at least,
“for less,” if they don’t know the rate).
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 18:51 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
|
I think many of us are saying the same thing ... that the PG needs to show the
sales one way (what the buyer paid based on regulatory requirements) and a second
way (what the basic cost was ex-VAT and ex-ST, so that we have a common point
to compare one sale against another). Showing some completed sales with VAT and
some without VAT is where the PG averages are getting skewed. In fact, averages
probably should only be calculated based on the second method.
Nita Rae
|
I agree, but what I was trying to indicate is that the price guide doesn't
seem to be doing what you say. It is averaging together some prices with VAT
and some without like you said but it's not doing it based on the sale/what
was paid by the buyer, it's doing it based on the location of the store.
So any store that sells in the EU where VAT laws apply, the price guide is adding
in that VAT whether or not it is was paid by the buyer.
For instance, someone in Germany lists a 10 Euro figure. A buyer in Germany
sees 12 Euro, I see 10 Euro being in the US. If a German buyer places and order
for that figure, they pay 10 Euro + 2 Euro VAT and then the price guide shows
a sold listing at 12 Euro. However, if I buy that figure from the US, I pay
10 Euro plus about 1 Euro in NYS sales tax. In this case the price guide also
shows a sold listing as 12 Euro. That does not make any sense.
Even though I never paid VAT, that is being added to the price guide. That's
the biggest issue here imo. The consistency between sales tax not being added
and VAT being added to the price guide is also a problem, but it is a different
problem, and honestly a much more challenging problem to solve. Both regions
are accustomed to their own laws and neither region is going to just adopt the
other's way because BrickLink says so.
-Pete
|
Again, why are you viewing the priceguide with VAT? VAT should not be added depending
on where the buyer is located, it should be added depending on where the *viewer*
of the priceguide is located (look at my other replies for my explanation why).
I think the only issue here is that you're viewing the priceguide with VAT,
if I'm not mistaken. That would mean you're viewing it as a EU citizen
while you're buying as a US citizen - getting inconsistency is a logical
result of that premise. When viewing and buying both in the same region (either
US or EU), the priceguide is in its current form is consistent and does what
it should do.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 18:58 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
|
I think many of us are saying the same thing ... that the PG needs to show the
sales one way (what the buyer paid based on regulatory requirements) and a second
way (what the basic cost was ex-VAT and ex-ST, so that we have a common point
to compare one sale against another). Showing some completed sales with VAT and
some without VAT is where the PG averages are getting skewed. In fact, averages
probably should only be calculated based on the second method.
Nita Rae
|
I agree, but what I was trying to indicate is that the price guide doesn't
seem to be doing what you say. It is averaging together some prices with VAT
and some without like you said but it's not doing it based on the sale/what
was paid by the buyer, it's doing it based on the location of the store.
So any store that sells in the EU where VAT laws apply, the price guide is adding
in that VAT whether or not it is was paid by the buyer.
For instance, someone in Germany lists a 10 Euro figure. A buyer in Germany
sees 12 Euro, I see 10 Euro being in the US. If a German buyer places and order
for that figure, they pay 10 Euro + 2 Euro VAT and then the price guide shows
a sold listing at 12 Euro. However, if I buy that figure from the US, I pay
10 Euro plus about 1 Euro in NYS sales tax. In this case the price guide also
shows a sold listing as 12 Euro. That does not make any sense.
Even though I never paid VAT, that is being added to the price guide. That's
the biggest issue here imo. The consistency between sales tax not being added
and VAT being added to the price guide is also a problem, but it is a different
problem, and honestly a much more challenging problem to solve. Both regions
are accustomed to their own laws and neither region is going to just adopt the
other's way because BrickLink says so.
-Pete
|
Again, why are you viewing the priceguide with VAT? VAT should not be added depending
on where the buyer is located, it should be added depending on where the *viewer*
of the priceguide is located (look at my other replies for my explanation why).
I think the only issue here is that you're viewing the priceguide with VAT,
if I'm not mistaken. That would mean you're viewing it as a EU citizen
while you're buying as a US citizen - getting inconsistency is a logical
result of that premise. When viewing and buying both in the same region (either
US or EU), the priceguide is in its current form is consistent and does what
it should do.
|
Hmm, there's something strange here, when viewing the priceguide including
VAT the L6MS price is actually *lower* than when viewing it without VAT:
With VAT:
https://www.bricklink.com/priceGuideSummary.asp?vcID=2&vatInc=Y&a=m&colorID=0&itemID=sw0775
Without VAT:
https://www.bricklink.com/priceGuideSummary.asp?vcID=2&vatInc=N&a=m&colorID=0&itemID=sw0775
Maybe this is some glitch where a piece of true-false code was inverted? Wouldn't
be the first time that happens on Bricklink....
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
|
I think many of us are saying the same thing ... that the PG needs to show the
sales one way (what the buyer paid based on regulatory requirements) and a second
way (what the basic cost was ex-VAT and ex-ST, so that we have a common point
to compare one sale against another). Showing some completed sales with VAT and
some without VAT is where the PG averages are getting skewed. In fact, averages
probably should only be calculated based on the second method.
Nita Rae
|
I agree, but what I was trying to indicate is that the price guide doesn't
seem to be doing what you say. It is averaging together some prices with VAT
and some without like you said but it's not doing it based on the sale/what
was paid by the buyer, it's doing it based on the location of the store.
So any store that sells in the EU where VAT laws apply, the price guide is adding
in that VAT whether or not it is was paid by the buyer.
For instance, someone in Germany lists a 10 Euro figure. A buyer in Germany
sees 12 Euro, I see 10 Euro being in the US. If a German buyer places and order
for that figure, they pay 10 Euro + 2 Euro VAT and then the price guide shows
a sold listing at 12 Euro. However, if I buy that figure from the US, I pay
10 Euro plus about 1 Euro in NYS sales tax. In this case the price guide also
shows a sold listing as 12 Euro. That does not make any sense.
Even though I never paid VAT, that is being added to the price guide. That's
the biggest issue here imo. The consistency between sales tax not being added
and VAT being added to the price guide is also a problem, but it is a different
problem, and honestly a much more challenging problem to solve. Both regions
are accustomed to their own laws and neither region is going to just adopt the
other's way because BrickLink says so.
-Pete
|
Again, why are you viewing the priceguide with VAT?
|
I'm done trying to explain to you that I am not viewing the price guide with
VAT. That's the glitch
| | VAT should not be added depending
on where the buyer is located, it should be added depending on where the *viewer*
of the priceguide is located (look at my other replies for my explanation why).
I think the only issue here is that you're viewing the priceguide with VAT,
if I'm not mistaken. That would mean you're viewing it as a EU citizen
while you're buying as a US citizen - getting inconsistency is a logical
result of that premise. When viewing and buying both in the same region (either
US or EU), the priceguide is in its current form is consistent and does what
it should do.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 19:24 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
|
I think many of us are saying the same thing ... that the PG needs to show the
sales one way (what the buyer paid based on regulatory requirements) and a second
way (what the basic cost was ex-VAT and ex-ST, so that we have a common point
to compare one sale against another). Showing some completed sales with VAT and
some without VAT is where the PG averages are getting skewed. In fact, averages
probably should only be calculated based on the second method.
Nita Rae
|
I agree, but what I was trying to indicate is that the price guide doesn't
seem to be doing what you say. It is averaging together some prices with VAT
and some without like you said but it's not doing it based on the sale/what
was paid by the buyer, it's doing it based on the location of the store.
So any store that sells in the EU where VAT laws apply, the price guide is adding
in that VAT whether or not it is was paid by the buyer.
For instance, someone in Germany lists a 10 Euro figure. A buyer in Germany
sees 12 Euro, I see 10 Euro being in the US. If a German buyer places and order
for that figure, they pay 10 Euro + 2 Euro VAT and then the price guide shows
a sold listing at 12 Euro. However, if I buy that figure from the US, I pay
10 Euro plus about 1 Euro in NYS sales tax. In this case the price guide also
shows a sold listing as 12 Euro. That does not make any sense.
Even though I never paid VAT, that is being added to the price guide. That's
the biggest issue here imo. The consistency between sales tax not being added
and VAT being added to the price guide is also a problem, but it is a different
problem, and honestly a much more challenging problem to solve. Both regions
are accustomed to their own laws and neither region is going to just adopt the
other's way because BrickLink says so.
-Pete
|
Again, why are you viewing the priceguide with VAT?
|
I'm done trying to explain to you that I am not viewing the price guide with
VAT. That's the glitch
| | VAT should not be added depending
on where the buyer is located, it should be added depending on where the *viewer*
of the priceguide is located (look at my other replies for my explanation why).
I think the only issue here is that you're viewing the priceguide with VAT,
if I'm not mistaken. That would mean you're viewing it as a EU citizen
while you're buying as a US citizen - getting inconsistency is a logical
result of that premise. When viewing and buying both in the same region (either
US or EU), the priceguide is in its current form is consistent and does what
it should do.
|
|
Sorry, I missed that reply due to Bricklink's archaic forum structure.
While I think the priceguide doesn't necessarily need to show the price that
was paid in all situations, yes, you're right, in the other screenshot there's
clearly a direct discrepancy that just shouldn't be there. Seems consistent
with what I found toggling VAT on and off. Looks a lot like they just flipped
"including" and "excluding" VAT the wrong way around somewhere in the code.
I think we need to get an admin response on this as the priceguide is a pretty
important core feature of the entire marketplace.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2021 12:04 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | The issue with this is twofold. First of all, and most importantly, this isn't
the price paid. No matter how you look at it, I did not pay VAT, therefore the
price guide should reflect that. It is the "6 month sales average" not the "6
month sales average assuming you have to pay VAT." Simply put, VAT wasn't
part of the price, it should aboslutely not be reflected in the sold price guide.
Secondly, this inflates the price guide to higher prices for people outside of
the EU. On the other hand, not including VAT in this price would influence the
price guide the opposite way for people inside the EU. As they are accustomed
to seeing prices with taxes included. So it's a little bit of a double edged
sword.
|
I think many of us are saying the same thing ... that the PG needs to show the
sales one way (what the buyer paid based on regulatory requirements) and a second
way (what the basic cost was ex-VAT and ex-ST, so that we have a common point
to compare one sale against another). Showing some completed sales with VAT and
some without VAT is where the PG averages are getting skewed. In fact, averages
probably should only be calculated based on the second method.
Nita Rae
|
I agree, but what I was trying to indicate is that the price guide doesn't
seem to be doing what you say. It is averaging together some prices with VAT
and some without like you said but it's not doing it based on the sale/what
was paid by the buyer, it's doing it based on the location of the store.
So any store that sells in the EU where VAT laws apply, the price guide is adding
in that VAT whether or not it is was paid by the buyer.
For instance, someone in Germany lists a 10 Euro figure. A buyer in Germany
sees 12 Euro, I see 10 Euro being in the US. If a German buyer places and order
for that figure, they pay 10 Euro + 2 Euro VAT and then the price guide shows
a sold listing at 12 Euro. However, if I buy that figure from the US, I pay
10 Euro plus about 1 Euro in NYS sales tax. In this case the price guide also
shows a sold listing as 12 Euro. That does not make any sense.
Even though I never paid VAT, that is being added to the price guide. That's
the biggest issue here imo. The consistency between sales tax not being added
and VAT being added to the price guide is also a problem, but it is a different
problem, and honestly a much more challenging problem to solve. Both regions
are accustomed to their own laws and neither region is going to just adopt the
other's way because BrickLink says so.
-Pete
|
Again, why are you viewing the priceguide with VAT?
|
I'm done trying to explain to you that I am not viewing the price guide with
VAT. That's the glitch
| | VAT should not be added depending
on where the buyer is located, it should be added depending on where the *viewer*
of the priceguide is located (look at my other replies for my explanation why).
I think the only issue here is that you're viewing the priceguide with VAT,
if I'm not mistaken. That would mean you're viewing it as a EU citizen
while you're buying as a US citizen - getting inconsistency is a logical
result of that premise. When viewing and buying both in the same region (either
US or EU), the priceguide is in its current form is consistent and does what
it should do.
|
|
Sorry, I missed that reply due to Bricklink's archaic forum structure.
While I think the priceguide doesn't necessarily need to show the price that
was paid in all situations, yes, you're right, in the other screenshot there's
clearly a direct discrepancy that just shouldn't be there. Seems consistent
with what I found toggling VAT on and off. Looks a lot like they just flipped
"including" and "excluding" VAT the wrong way around somewhere in the code.
|
That could be the case....
| | | | | | Looking back on a few of my orders this seems to not be an isolated incident.
I am only having issues with it on orders in made Euros (3 orders I can confirm
this is happening in), but oddly enough a 4th order I made in Euro (from Greece)
did not have the issue. It is also happenening with both New and Used items.
|
|
|
par016 could you provide more data od the items/screenshots of these other orders
too?
Thanks
| |
I think we need to get an admin response on this as the priceguide is a pretty
important core feature of the entire marketplace.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:09 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
|
| In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
|
That doesn't sound correct.
When a non-European buyer buys from a European store they don't pay VAT.
If the country's VAT is included in the price guide no matter the sort of
transaction it should also be reflected in the price of the items currently available.
So the price should be the same on both sides of the overview.
Erikk
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:14 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1308914
In Technical Issues, Erkiles writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
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That doesn't sound correct.
When a non-European buyer buys from a European store they don't pay VAT.
If the country's VAT is included in the price guide no matter the sort of
transaction it should also be reflected in the price of the items currently available.
So the price should be the same on both sides of the overview.
Erikk
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:17 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Erkiles writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
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That doesn't sound correct.
When a non-European buyer buys from a European store they don't pay VAT.
If the country's VAT is included in the price guide no matter the sort of
transaction it should also be reflected in the price of the items currently available.
So the price should be the same on both sides of the overview.
Erikk
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No argument. What happens to non-EU items (e.g. in USA) sold to a USA buyer ...
should they be visible to EU buyers with a faux VAT added on, or should they
show the actual USD transaction price as was paid ?
I am leaning towards displaying the actual transaction price (regardless of VAT),
with the base price (ex-VAT) next to it, to establish a common basis. Either
with VAT or without VAT, there needs to be a common value for comparison (since
the PG operates on a global scale).
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:35 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, cosmicray writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Erkiles writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
|
That doesn't sound correct.
When a non-European buyer buys from a European store they don't pay VAT.
If the country's VAT is included in the price guide no matter the sort of
transaction it should also be reflected in the price of the items currently available.
So the price should be the same on both sides of the overview.
Erikk
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No argument. What happens to non-EU items (e.g. in USA) sold to a USA buyer ...
should they be visible to EU buyers with a faux VAT added on, or should they
show the actual USD transaction price as was paid ?
I am leaning towards displaying the actual transaction price (regardless of VAT),
with the base price (ex-VAT) next to it, to establish a common basis. Either
with VAT or without VAT, there needs to be a common value for comparison (since
the PG operates on a global scale).
Nita Rae
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YES: https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=310651
Also, this case seems the inverse problem of this:
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=290050
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 10:52 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Erkiles writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
|
That doesn't sound correct.
When a non-European buyer buys from a European store they don't pay VAT.
If the country's VAT is included in the price guide no matter the sort of
transaction it should also be reflected in the price of the items currently available.
So the price should be the same on both sides of the overview.
Erikk
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Note that he's viewing the PG in Euro. From a European perspective, the price
the OP paid plus VAT is an accurate reflection of the priceguide value. For recording
a sale into the priceguide value, it should not matter where a buyer happens
to be located.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:05 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| | | Note that he's viewing the PG in Euro. From a European perspective, the price
the OP paid plus VAT is an accurate reflection of the priceguide value. For recording
a sale into the priceguide value, it should not matter where a buyer happens
to be located.
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Why is the price paid plus VAT an accurate reflection when there was no VAT paid?
A global priceguide will always be a mess. If someone (not VAT registered) in
country A sells an item to country B and someone from country C views it, what
should show? The price A sold it for, the price plus B's tax (here state
tax) that was paid or the price plus C's tax? What if they then sell the
same item to someone in their own country A and no VAT is due. Does that go in
at the price sold, or the price plus C's tax? If the same item sells at the
same price, surely they should both be in the guide at the same price, before
any tax is added.
Especially if the seller then lists more at the average sold price based on those
two transactions, as that means the price goes up if one is recorded without
tax and one with.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:29 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Note that he's viewing the PG in Euro. From a European perspective, the price
the OP paid plus VAT is an accurate reflection of the priceguide value. For recording
a sale into the priceguide value, it should not matter where a buyer happens
to be located.
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Why is the price paid plus VAT an accurate reflection when there was no VAT paid?
A global priceguide will always be a mess. If someone (not VAT registered) in
country A sells an item to country B and someone from country C views it, what
should show? The price A sold it for, the price plus B's tax (here state
tax) that was paid or the price plus C's tax? What if they then sell the
same item to someone in their own country A and no VAT is due. Does that go in
at the price sold, or the price plus C's tax? If the same item sells at the
same price, surely they should both be in the guide at the same price, before
any tax is added.
Especially if the seller then lists more at the average sold price based on those
two transactions, as that means the price goes up if one is recorded without
tax and one with.
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There is a difference here between the recorded value and the viewing
value. I am assuming here that (or at least, it's my theory), since the viewing
currency is in euro in the picture, the OP is actually viewing the priceguide
including VAT.
Yes, the sale itself is still recorded at the price that the OP paid, but it
is viewed to EU customers with the VAT added to it. After all, the OP
may have paid €10 but he bought it from a stock where it costs, for the viewer,
€12. Say the seller is the only person in the world to ever sell that item, we
don't want the seller to look more expensive than himself. (Plus, when importing
into other regions there are different costs incurred that may offset the lack
of VAT anyway)
When viewing the transaction from the US, we'll still see €10 (sales tax
excluded because that's excluded in listed prices anyway) because it was
correctly recorded as a €10 ex.VAT sale. (again, if I am correct that the OP
is viewing VAT included prices)
This way it all adds up as far as I can see. Now, if the EU seller chooses to
update their prices to average - and they are the only one who ever sold the
item - the price stays level. Because in this EU seller's priceguide, the
price appears as €12, which is what he listed the item for, even though the OP
had paid €10 for it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:36 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Note that he's viewing the PG in Euro. From a European perspective, the price
the OP paid plus VAT is an accurate reflection of the priceguide value. For recording
a sale into the priceguide value, it should not matter where a buyer happens
to be located.
|
Why is the price paid plus VAT an accurate reflection when there was no VAT paid?
A global priceguide will always be a mess. If someone (not VAT registered) in
country A sells an item to country B and someone from country C views it, what
should show? The price A sold it for, the price plus B's tax (here state
tax) that was paid or the price plus C's tax? What if they then sell the
same item to someone in their own country A and no VAT is due. Does that go in
at the price sold, or the price plus C's tax? If the same item sells at the
same price, surely they should both be in the guide at the same price, before
any tax is added.
Especially if the seller then lists more at the average sold price based on those
two transactions, as that means the price goes up if one is recorded without
tax and one with.
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There is a difference here between the recorded value and the viewing
value. I am assuming here that (or at least, it's my theory), since the viewing
currency is in euro in the picture, the OP is actually viewing the priceguide
including VAT.
Yes, the sale itself is still recorded at the price that the OP paid, but it
is viewed to EU customers with the VAT added to it. After all, the OP
may have paid €10 but he bought it from a stock where it costs, for the viewer,
€12. Say the seller is the only person in the world to ever sell that item, we
don't want the seller to look more expensive than himself. (Plus, when importing
into other regions there are different costs incurred that may offset the lack
of VAT anyway)
When viewing the transaction from the US, we'll still see €10 (sales tax
excluded because that's excluded in listed prices anyway) because it was
correctly recorded as a €10 ex.VAT sale. (again, if I am correct that the OP
is viewing VAT included prices)
This way it all adds up as far as I can see. Now, if the EU seller chooses to
update their prices to average - and they are the only one who ever sold the
item - the price stays level. Because in this EU seller's priceguide, the
price appears as €12, which is what he listed the item for, even though the OP
had paid €10 for it.
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Ok, maybe "it all adds up" is a little exaggerated because you are right, this
is all pretty much a compromise/mess inherent to the fact we're dealing with
different regions.
But I'd say the first priority feature of a priceguide is that a seller doesn't
look more or less expensive than themselves (both for the buyer who wants to
compare prices, and for the seller who wants to update their prices). And this
way we're at least getting that.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 12:18 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Note that he's viewing the PG in Euro. From a European perspective, the price
the OP paid plus VAT is an accurate reflection of the priceguide value. For recording
a sale into the priceguide value, it should not matter where a buyer happens
to be located.
|
Why is the price paid plus VAT an accurate reflection when there was no VAT paid?
A global priceguide will always be a mess. If someone (not VAT registered) in
country A sells an item to country B and someone from country C views it, what
should show? The price A sold it for, the price plus B's tax (here state
tax) that was paid or the price plus C's tax? What if they then sell the
same item to someone in their own country A and no VAT is due. Does that go in
at the price sold, or the price plus C's tax? If the same item sells at the
same price, surely they should both be in the guide at the same price, before
any tax is added.
Especially if the seller then lists more at the average sold price based on those
two transactions, as that means the price goes up if one is recorded without
tax and one with.
|
There is a difference here between the recorded value and the viewing
value. I am assuming here that (or at least, it's my theory), since the viewing
currency is in euro in the picture, the OP is actually viewing the priceguide
including VAT.
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Once again see my other post in response to you. Same problem when not viewing
the price guide in Euro:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1308932
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Yes, the sale itself is still recorded at the price that the OP paid,
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No it is not. I paid 37.80 Euro for that figure
| | but it
is viewed to EU customers with the VAT added to it. After all, the OP
may have paid €10 but he bought it from a stock where it costs, for the viewer,
€12. Say the seller is the only person in the world to ever sell that item, we
don't want the seller to look more expensive than himself. (Plus, when importing
into other regions there are different costs incurred that may offset the lack
of VAT anyway)
When viewing the transaction from the US, we'll still see €10
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No we don't. In my order's case, the figure shows as being sold at
$52.18 which equates to 44.99 Euro
| | (sales tax
excluded because that's excluded in listed prices anyway) because it was
correctly recorded as a €10 ex.VAT sale. (again, if I am correct that the OP
is viewing VAT included prices)
This way it all adds up as far as I can see. Now, if the EU seller chooses to
update their prices to average - and they are the only one who ever sold the
item - the price stays level. Because in this EU seller's priceguide, the
price appears as €12, which is what he listed the item for, even though the OP
had paid €10 for it.
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Also note that the current available price is not the same as the sold price
in any of my pictures. So this "VAT application" you speak of is not being consistently
applied to both current and sold listings. Maybe European buyers see the current
listing with VAT included. I do not no matter which way I looka t the price
guide.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:08 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Erkiles writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
|
That doesn't sound correct.
When a non-European buyer buys from a European store they don't pay VAT.
If the country's VAT is included in the price guide no matter the sort of
transaction it should also be reflected in the price of the items currently available.
So the price should be the same on both sides of the overview.
Erikk
|
Note that he's viewing the PG in Euro. From a European perspective, the price
the OP paid plus VAT is an accurate reflection of the priceguide value. For recording
a sale into the priceguide value, it should not matter where a buyer happens
to be located.
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I switched the price guide to "Group by Currency" just for ease of comparing
the price to my order page (which will always show in Euro). However, even if
I switch back to showing US the price is off. See my attached picture. The
highlighted current listing is from the same store at the same price I purchased
(they just have a few more, and did not switch their price).
I did not pay VAT, so the price guide should not reflect that I showed VAT.
The price guide should show what was paid.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:28 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Teup writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Erkiles writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Dino1 writes:
| | The sold price include the German VAT of 19%.
|
That doesn't sound correct.
When a non-European buyer buys from a European store they don't pay VAT.
If the country's VAT is included in the price guide no matter the sort of
transaction it should also be reflected in the price of the items currently available.
So the price should be the same on both sides of the overview.
Erikk
|
Note that he's viewing the PG in Euro. From a European perspective, the price
the OP paid plus VAT is an accurate reflection of the priceguide value. For recording
a sale into the priceguide value, it should not matter where a buyer happens
to be located.
|
The price guide can only work as intended when oranges can be compared to oranges.
That the buyer was legally required to pay VAT, and that the seller displayed
VAT, should only be in the PG if you can see the amount paid AND the ex-VAT cost.
For people outside of the EU, they should be able to compare EU offerings (ex-VAT)
to all sales, in order to see what is a legitimate base price. EU buyers are
legally required to see prices with VAT included. I get that. but if an EU buyer,
buys from a US seller, with a shipping address of a Freight Forwarder in Delaware,
USA, then which price should be in the PG ? Obviously they will be (in theory)
remitting VAT when the item clears customs in the EU, but the VAT added price
would not have been charged on the original sale. This is a very difficult thing,
to display correctly is all combinations, and still be able to compare oranges
to oranges.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | Author: | Shiny_Stuff | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 11:57 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
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Am I missing something, or are you looking at stats for 2 Different figs?
You mentioned sw0890 but gave us the link for sw0775.
____
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| | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2021 12:08 | | Subject: | Re: Price Guide Bug | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Shiny_Stuff writes:
| | In Technical Issues, par016 writes:
| | I believe there is a pretty significant bug with the price guide.
I purchased a sw0890 yesterday and the price I paid is not what is reflected
in the 6 month sales list in the price guide.
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Am I missing something, or are you looking at stats for 2 Different figs?
You mentioned sw0890 but gave us the link for sw0775.
____
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Sorry should all be sw0775
-Pete
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USA, New York
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)
Netherlands, Gelderland
Luxembourg
United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Canada, Alberta
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Belgium, Brussels
