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| | | Author: | legoman77  | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 00:04 | | Subject: | A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 331 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
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| | | | | Author: | MarioBrickz | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 00:46 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
If your gut tells you not to put the Nazi flags on the Bismarck replica, then
don't do it. If it's going to be displayed someplace where people are
going to see it, and you think that the Nazi flags are going to be a problem
with some people who dislike Nazi symbolism (just like a number of us Americans
don't approve of the Confederate flag anymore), then just leave the Nazi
flags off altogether. It should not make a whole lot of difference as long as
the ship is clearly identified as being a replica of the Bismarck.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 01:16 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
If it was a decent looking scale model, rather than just there to glorify the
symbols it would not bother me. As long as you don't do this. https://youtu.be/Mq8RnAfCFwk
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| | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 02:40 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, yorbrick writes:
| | In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
If it was a decent looking scale model, rather than just there to glorify the
symbols it would not bother me. As long as you don't do this. https://youtu.be/Mq8RnAfCFwk
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Here is a link to what it looks like finished. It is the sanitized version that
I am building.
I just don't know. I like your comment and also MarioBrickz comment. My
gut as a person says no, and my gut as a collector says yes. This all may sound
a little silly and nick picky, things like this just bother me. Believe me,
I am not PC, just the opposite.
Thanks
John P
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| | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 04:47 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
In my opinion...
For me, a correct historical use is no problem. It is part of history and the
stories that the object represents. If the symbols are not shown anywhere, how
can we teach about the evil that they became to represent? If we hide or censure
the symbol, does the Bismarck become a different ship with a different history?
Glorification, denial of atrocities, or something like marching those symbols
through the streets are absolutely not acceptable. Modern use in graffiti, tattoos
etcetera is not the same as use on a model.
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| | | | | | | Author: | jenwick | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 10:19 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| | |
In my opinion...
For me, a correct historical use is no problem. It is part of history and the
stories that the object represents. If the symbols are not shown anywhere, how
can we teach about the evil that they became to represent? If we hide or censure
the symbol, does the Bismarck become a different ship with a different history?
Glorification, denial of atrocities, or something like marching those symbols
through the streets are absolutely not acceptable. Modern use in graffiti, tattoos
etcetera is not the same as use on a model.
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Well said.
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| | | | | | | Author: | yoavheskia | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 10:37 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| | | For me, a correct historical use is no problem.
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I agree.
Also I find these discussion very interesting.
It reminded me another story mixing the second world war history and Lego:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mOX0BascFM
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 10:58 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, yoavheskia writes:
| | | | For me, a correct historical use is no problem.
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I agree.
Also I find these discussion very interesting.
It reminded me another story mixing the second world war history and Lego:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mOX0BascFM
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I noticed the country where you are from 
+1
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| | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 05:04 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
If this is such a big concern of you, why do a replica of the Bismarck at all?
It is not just the symbol that represents the nasty history, but the complete
ship and what has been done with it.
On the other hand, a replica of e.g. USS Enterprise would be the same thing.
With that ship many people have been killed as well.
So... it seems to be just a matter of where you draw the line.
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 06:13 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
The swastika, exists in other contexts than the one you speak of. There are,
IIRC, four variants of it in the UNICODE character set. A certain world power
appropriated it for their own branding. Since then it has had a very negative
connotation. Again, IIRC, the swastika existed much prior to 1930s, with a very
different meaning back then.
Should you use it to decorate a historical war machine ? That's up to you.
Can you live with it when you see it in your home, and can you deal with other
people see it, has a lot to do with what you hope to achieve.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | MarioBrickz | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 10:53 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, cosmicray writes:
| | In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
The swastika, exists in other contexts than the one you speak of. There are,
IIRC, four variants of it in the UNICODE character set. A certain world power
appropriated it for their own branding. Since then it has had a very negative
connotation. Again, IIRC, the swastika existed much prior to 1930s, with a very
different meaning back then.
|
Nita is right - the swastika has been around for more than 2000 years, and it's
very frequently used in the Indochina region. There are multiple versions of
the symbol, but the version everyone associates with a certain World War II dictator
is the version that I would refer to as 'double S rotated 45 degrees'.
| | Should you use it to decorate a historical war machine ? That's up to you.
Can you live with it when you see it in your home, and can you deal with other
people see it, has a lot to do with what you hope to achieve.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 11:10 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 114 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
I assume it’s a question of symbolism for you, John?
The Nazi symbol (Swastika) you’re concerned about, did symbolize the Third Reich.
But you could argue, and military scholars do, that the Bismarck and her sister
ship were built as symbols of the Third Reich too. Military historians might
tell you that they were outward expressions of their might and defiance, viewed
by most within the German high command as highly impractical from a wartime cost/benefit
analysis.
The program made little sense to the admirals Hitler had at the time, a costly
program yielding only the two ships. The cost of which could’ve produced one
hundred highly effective subs or 20 destroyers, per ship. This fact was well-known
by the German high command at the time. The world’s military-mindset being stuck
in the Battleship-centric thinking of WWl, the symbolic value of these
two technologically advanced battleship behemoths, was deemed cost worthy.
The misguided thinking that the "appearance" of Nazi naval superiority would
be realized somehow. Much like the yet larger 70,000 ton Yamato and her sister
ship in Japan. It’s nickname “Hotel Yamato” tells you how that thinking panned
out The Tirpitz tucked away in a Norwegian fjord might’ve deserved the same
nickname. They were to be symbols of might and defiance from both countries.
Defiance, namely of the arms limitation treaties of the time.
Had either axis power spent those resources on aircraft carriers for Japan or
subs for German rather than symbolic ideas, the allied forces might’ve had a
tougher time at it. In other words, the creation of the two respective programs
were birthed from thoughts of symbolism and not from the classical cost per pound
of deliverable explosives analysis.
Of course, you should use the symbol to keep the authenticity of what seems like
a impressive model build. But I don't see the model being any less impressive,
if you decide not to.
-popsicle
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| | | | | Author: | 6wheelguy | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 11:12 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| If it bothers you, don't put the swastika on there.
It's your model, it's going to live in your home.
IMHO
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| | | | | | | Author: | Ziegelmeister | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 13:29 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, 6wheelguy writes:
| | If it bothers you, don't put the swastika on there.
It's your model, it's going to live in your home.
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It kind of boils down to that. As a model builder and WWII buff I would always
steer toward accuracy; but I can sympathize with other people's opinions.
At the end of the day you're the one that will be looking at it every day.
... On the other hand if you're going for true accuracy you can just remove
the turrets, cover the deck in barnacles and call it a day.
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| | | | | Author: | FantasyBricks | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 12:12 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| Would you consider a mirror image of the swastika and perhaps not tilted at a
45 degree angle?
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 12:52 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, LegoMath writes:
| | Would you consider a mirror image of the swastika and perhaps not tilted at a
45 degree angle?
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I think that’d be hypocrite or self-delusional.
As others said, the whole ship is a Nazi symbol. Adding that other Nazi symbol
or not doesn’t change much. Adding a distorted symbol just means you think it’s
not proper to use the symbol but you want to use it anyway but not but yes….
Either it’s proper or it’s not. You decide and use it or not. Draw the line
but don’t pretend you’re not overstepping it by doing the Michael Jackson’s leaning
dance step over it.
I think it’s a bit like the new Titanic set.
Some may see the whole Titanic set as inappropriate, as disregarding of the many
deaths that happened because of the sinking. If you think that way, then don’t
buy it, don’t show it. If you don’t think that way but think some people you
know may, then don’t show it to them. But if you think it’s a tribute to ship
engineering and even a tribute to the catastrophe, or a reminder of man’s hubris,
then why no show it?
Would you remove the tiles with the name “Titanic” so that people wouldn’t know
it’s the Titanic? Would that work?
TL;DR: John, do as you feel.
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| | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 19:07 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
Thank everyone for all the replies. A bit for me to think about and I did. I
decided to not use any Nazi symbols. I am not sure the whole Bismarck is a Nazi
symbol, it was a manufacturing wonder. It was started in 1936, before the atrocities
of the Third Reich were in effect. But is a wonder to build the model. Eaglemoss
is coming out with the Titanic, as well as the Batmobile.
I am thinking about getting the Lego Titanic. My wife said I could if I wanted
and then went and bought three purses.
Thanks again everyone,
John P
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| | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 20:58 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Oct 10, 2021 23:52 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
Thank everyone for all the replies. A bit for me to think about and I did. I decided to not use any Nazi symbols. I am not sure the whole Bismarck is a Nazi symbol, it was a manufacturing wonder.
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| | It was started in 1936, before the atrocities of the Third Reich were in effect.
|
You mean other than what was done to Germany and the German people after Hitler
took the Chancellorship in 1933? The terror that was unleashed on the country
by Hitler’s Brownshirts (SA or Sturmabteilung ‘assault division’) in the effort
to consolidate his power and political strangle-hold on the country?
Or the Nazi group in the cabinet bringing in Joseph Goebbels as minister of public
enlightenment and propaganda in March 1933?
Maybe Hitler’s political and military “purges” throughout 1934 that culminated
in the Night of the Long Knives. Within a month the German President Hindenburg dies,
wherein Hitler is made president to then immediately abolish the office making
himself Führer?
Germany under Hitler by 1934 had become a totalitarian police state. With programs
like The Hitler Youth, and the beginnings of euthanasia for undesirables. Starting
with the terminally ill within hospitals, quickly added the mentally ill and
others too . As well as programs that included the forced sterilization of other
“undesirables” all in full swing by 1936?
I could go on with "atrocities" that took place prior to the ship's construction,
but why bother. It's a ludicrous argument.
As a former “race relations equal opportunity counselor” it may also concern
you how Jesse Owens was treated by the Nazi-Goebbels controlled media during
the 1936 Hitler’s Reich held Olympics. Shameful. Incidentally, the Bismarck build
started that very same month in 1936, when Hitler and the Nazi party were consumed
with showing the world Nazi excellence in both their people (white) and technologies.
The Bismarck and Tirpitz among other projects at the time were spawned from these
motivations and ideology.
In short, John, it's disingenuous (which you're not) to show concern
for a symbol on the ship, but not the ship itself. I recently posted about myself
being blissfully ignorant, you shouldn't go that route, not in this case.
If you don't have qualms with building and displaying the ship, then neither
should the ship's flag give you concern.
Just some thoughts
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 11, 2021 02:20 | | Subject: | Re: A delicate question for collectors | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, popsicle writes:
| | In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | In Off Topic, legoman77 writes:
| | A delicate question for collectors: I am being serious, probably the most serious
I can be. I am building Agora (Hachette) model of the Bismarck. It is a kit
that lights and lots of motors and electrical stuff and extremely detailed to
match the original battleship to the tune of around $1,200. I was also a race
relations equal opportunity counselor in the Army for about 3 years. My corundum
is that the nazi symbol has was not included. However, there is a modification
for the kit that one can buy to to correct that. From a collector's point
of view I would like the ship to be a perfect match. But as a feeling human
being I do not want this symbol in my house (I do have it on the jackets of several
books, but they are hidden by the books on either side on the shelf.)
The advise I need is should I make it a perfect reproduction or or not? This
may seem like a petty concern, but I really would like some thoughts on which
way to go.
thanks in advance to those that might help me,
John P
|
Thank everyone for all the replies. A bit for me to think about and I did. I decided to not use any Nazi symbols. I am not sure the whole Bismarck is a Nazi symbol, it was a manufacturing wonder.
|
| | It was started in 1936, before the atrocities of the Third Reich were in effect.
|
You mean other than what was done to Germany and the German people after Hitler
took the Chancellorship in 1933? The terror that was unleashed on the country
by Hitler’s Brownshirts (SA or Sturmabteilung ‘assault division’) in the effort
to consolidate his power and political strangle-hold on the country?
Or the Nazi group in the cabinet bringing in Joseph Goebbels as minister of public
enlightenment and propaganda in March 1933?
Maybe Hitler’s political and military “purges” throughout 1934 that culminated
in the Night of the Long Knives. Within a month the German President Hindenburg dies,
wherein Hitler is made president to then immediately abolish the office making
himself Führer?
Germany under Hitler by 1934 had become a totalitarian police state. With programs
like The Hitler Youth, and the beginnings of euthanasia for undesirables. Starting
with the terminally ill within hospitals, quickly added the mentally ill and
others too . As well as programs that included the forced sterilization of other
“undesirables” all in full swing by 1936?
I could go on with "atrocities" that took place prior to the ship's construction,
but why bother. It's a ludicrous argument.
As a former “race relations equal opportunity counselor” it may also concern
you how Jesse Owens was treated by the Nazi-Goebbels controlled media during
the 1936 Hitler’s Reich held Olympics. Shameful. Incidentally, the Bismarck build
started that very same month in 1936, when Hitler and the Nazi party were consumed
with showing the world Nazi excellence in both their people (white) and technologies.
The Bismarck and Tirpitz among other projects at the time were spawned from these
motivations and ideology.
In short, John, it's disingenuous (which you're not) to show concern
for a symbol on the ship, but not the ship itself. I recently posted about myself
being blissfully ignorant, you shouldn't go that route, not in this case.
If you don't have qualms with building and displaying the ship, then neither
should the ship's flag give you concern.
Just some thoughts
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I do not think that a ship, or a Panzer tank has the same impact of a Swastika.
That stands for a philosophy and a movement. A ship is a part of war maned
by good or bad men. There is a Yamamoto ship to build and it kept the Japanese
rising sun. It is not as nefarious as a Swastika. Symbols are important, if
you say Bismarck so one shutters, if you say Nazi people will stop and take note.
The Japanese soldiers during WWII were as mean to the prisoners of war as were
the Germans. Most people do not even know who Bismarck was. If the ship was
named Hitler I would agree with you. I do agree with you on the Confederate flag
and think that it is as bad as the Swastika, no difference in my mind. It has
taken far too long to get that removed from public buildings and idiots still
display it on cars here in Texas. There was a TV series that had the Confederate
flag and the only good that came out of the show was Daisy Duke shorts. Blues
Brothers had Nazi symbols and those people were made to look the fool.
But I digress. Thank you for your comments. (By the way, One of my graduate
degrees is in History and I did my thesis on Kristallnacht.
John P
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USA, Texas
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
Israel, Mehoz Tel Aviv
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine