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| | | Author: | Abels_Bricks  | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:31 | | Subject: | EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 318 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
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| | | | | Author: | StickyBrickit | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:35 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 116 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
eBay have implemented the collection of the VAT but don't give you the option
to prove the buyer has paid it unless you go through their Global Shipping Program
(which is insanely expensive). So not really a win for eBay sellers.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Abels_Bricks | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:47 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, StickyBrickit writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
eBay have implemented the collection of the VAT but don't give you the option
to prove the buyer has paid it unless you go through their Global Shipping Program
(which is insanely expensive). So not really a win for eBay sellers.
|
I`ve seen my EU sales drop from around 30% of total to Zero in the past 3 months
on all the sales portals I use, (I suppose this works in my favour, if I don't
have any sales to the EU I don't have to register) Brexit has been a total
nightmare. On the plus I have seen a slight increase the the USA.
If I do get any EU sales I was planning to place a "VAT PAID" sticker on the
package and make sure to include the full ebay invoice in the package and on
the front in an INVOICE pocket.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:55 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, StickyBrickit writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
eBay have implemented the collection of the VAT but don't give you the option
to prove the buyer has paid it unless you go through their Global Shipping Program
(which is insanely expensive). So not really a win for eBay sellers.
|
I`ve seen my EU sales drop from around 30% of total to Zero in the past 3 months
on all the sales portals I use, (I suppose this works in my favour, if I don't
have any sales to the EU I don't have to register) Brexit has been a total
nightmare. On the plus I have seen a slight increase the the USA.
If I do get any EU sales I was planning to place a "VAT PAID" sticker on the
package and make sure to include the full ebay invoice in the package and on
the front in an INVOICE pocket.
|
I think the email is only intended for UK stores selling to EU members from North
Ireland, but it would be better if you all get a confirmation of this.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | StickyBrickit | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:59 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | I`ve seen my EU sales drop from around 30% of total to Zero in the past 3 months
on all the sales portals I use, (I suppose this works in my favour, if I don't
have any sales to the EU I don't have to register) Brexit has been a total
nightmare. On the plus I have seen a slight increase the the USA.
If I do get any EU sales I was planning to place a "VAT PAID" sticker on the
package and make sure to include the full ebay invoice in the package and on
the front in an INVOICE pocket.
|
That might work but probably still beholden to the specific customs officer you
get. I understand why there are no systems in place or solutions are rushed though...I
mean, we only had 5 years to prepare for this, what can you do in that amount
of time! :-/
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| | | | | Author: | Bendix | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:37 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 97 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Als deutsches Kleingewerbe bin ich verpflichtet, eine USt-IdNr. zu hinterlegen
- egal, ob meine Umsätze in den letzten 12 Monaten über dem neuen Schwellenwert
von 10 000 EUR für den Fernabsatz von Waren liegen oder nicht. Das heisst jedoch
nicht, das ich Umsatzsteuerpflichtig bin (meine Umsätze liegen weit darunter).
Warum soll ich also die Mehrwertsteuer in meinen Eisnstellungen aktivieren?
As a German small business, I am obliged to submit a VAT ID number. to be deposited
- regardless of whether my sales in the last 12 months are above the new threshold
of 10,000 EUR for the distance selling of goods or not. However, that does not
mean that I am liable to sales tax (my sales are far below that). So why should
I activate VAT in my settings?
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| | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:11 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Bendix writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Als deutsches Kleingewerbe bin ich verpflichtet, eine USt-IdNr. zu hinterlegen
- egal, ob meine Umsätze in den letzten 12 Monaten über dem neuen Schwellenwert
von 10 000 EUR für den Fernabsatz von Waren liegen oder nicht. Das heisst jedoch
nicht, das ich Umsatzsteuerpflichtig bin (meine Umsätze liegen weit darunter).
Warum soll ich also die Mehrwertsteuer in meinen Eisnstellungen aktivieren?
As a German small business, I am obliged to submit a VAT ID number. to be deposited
- regardless of whether my sales in the last 12 months are above the new threshold
of 10,000 EUR for the distance selling of goods or not. However, that does not
mean that I am liable to sales tax (my sales are far below that). So why should
I activate VAT in my settings?
|
Agreed, same here. Not activating VAT in my settings. Sales far below the threshold
and selling used items only (Margin-goods) = BL simply can't charge VAT
on my orders.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ZwarteMagica | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:22 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Bendix writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Als deutsches Kleingewerbe bin ich verpflichtet, eine USt-IdNr. zu hinterlegen
- egal, ob meine Umsätze in den letzten 12 Monaten über dem neuen Schwellenwert
von 10 000 EUR für den Fernabsatz von Waren liegen oder nicht. Das heisst jedoch
nicht, das ich Umsatzsteuerpflichtig bin (meine Umsätze liegen weit darunter).
Warum soll ich also die Mehrwertsteuer in meinen Eisnstellungen aktivieren?
As a German small business, I am obliged to submit a VAT ID number. to be deposited
- regardless of whether my sales in the last 12 months are above the new threshold
of 10,000 EUR for the distance selling of goods or not. However, that does not
mean that I am liable to sales tax (my sales are far below that). So why should
I activate VAT in my settings?
|
Agreed, same here. Not activating VAT in my settings. Sales far below the threshold
and selling used items only (Margin-goods) = BL simply can't charge VAT
on my orders.
|
Even Dutch Camber of Commerce confirms what you are saying
https://www.kvk.nl/advies-en-informatie/internationaal-ondernemen/e-commerce/btw-regels-voor-e-commerce-in-de-eu/
Dutch tax collector Belastingdienst is also confirming this
(link available but I don`t want to screw up the forum layout since it is a very
long link, message me if you need it)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:29 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, ZwarteMagica writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Bendix writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Als deutsches Kleingewerbe bin ich verpflichtet, eine USt-IdNr. zu hinterlegen
- egal, ob meine Umsätze in den letzten 12 Monaten über dem neuen Schwellenwert
von 10 000 EUR für den Fernabsatz von Waren liegen oder nicht. Das heisst jedoch
nicht, das ich Umsatzsteuerpflichtig bin (meine Umsätze liegen weit darunter).
Warum soll ich also die Mehrwertsteuer in meinen Eisnstellungen aktivieren?
As a German small business, I am obliged to submit a VAT ID number. to be deposited
- regardless of whether my sales in the last 12 months are above the new threshold
of 10,000 EUR for the distance selling of goods or not. However, that does not
mean that I am liable to sales tax (my sales are far below that). So why should
I activate VAT in my settings?
|
Agreed, same here. Not activating VAT in my settings. Sales far below the threshold
and selling used items only (Margin-goods) = BL simply can't charge VAT
on my orders.
|
Even Dutch Camber of Commerce confirms what you are saying
https://www.kvk.nl/advies-en-informatie/internationaal-ondernemen/e-commerce/btw-regels-voor-e-commerce-in-de-eu/
Dutch tax collector Belastingdienst is also confirming this
(link available but I don`t want to screw up the forum layout since it is a very
long link, message me if you need it)
|
Marge-goederen vallen volledig onder de BTW van het land van de verkoper, tellen
niet mee voor de threshold, en je kan gewoon naar elk EU land verkopen. Geen
gedoe met BTW van land koper, geen registraties of wat dan ook nodig. Gelukkig
blijft dat allemaal nog eenvoudig en net als voorheen. Feitelijk geen veranderingen.
Buiten de EU verkopen is ander verhaal. Nieuwe goederen ook. Dan heb je met al
die nieuwe regels te maken.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ZwarteMagica | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:32 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| |
Marge-goederen vallen volledig onder de BTW van het land van de verkoper, tellen
niet mee voor de threshold, en je kan gewoon naar elk EU land verkopen. Geen
gedoe met BTW van land koper, geen registraties of wat dan ook nodig. Gelukkig
blijft dat allemaal nog eenvoudig en net als voorheen. Feitelijk geen veranderingen.
Buiten de EU verkopen is ander verhaal. Nieuwe goederen ook. Dan heb je met al
die nieuwe regels te maken.
|
klopt helemaal!
Alleen als BrickLink alle winkeltjes gaat sluiten die volgens de marge regeling
werken en dus geen OOS registratie hoeven te hebben wordt het wel problematisch.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:38 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, ZwarteMagica writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| |
Marge-goederen vallen volledig onder de BTW van het land van de verkoper, tellen
niet mee voor de threshold, en je kan gewoon naar elk EU land verkopen. Geen
gedoe met BTW van land koper, geen registraties of wat dan ook nodig. Gelukkig
blijft dat allemaal nog eenvoudig en net als voorheen. Feitelijk geen veranderingen.
Buiten de EU verkopen is ander verhaal. Nieuwe goederen ook. Dan heb je met al
die nieuwe regels te maken.
|
klopt helemaal!
Alleen als BrickLink alle winkeltjes gaat sluiten die volgens de marge regeling
werken en dus geen OOS registratie hoeven te hebben wordt het wel problematisch.
|
We gaan het zien. Ik ben al een jaar bezig met het opzetten van een eigen webwinkel,
als alternatief achter de hand. Eigenlijk sinds BrickLink door TLG is overgenomen
want het is 50/50 welke handel in lego ze willen behouden en welke niet... buiten
hun eigen webshop om.
Zoals ik het zie met al die nieuwe regels is er voor gebruikte goederen onder
de marge-regeling een enorme markt te winnen. Juist omdat daar niets veranderd
qua regels en voor nieuwe goederen wel (dat wordt alleen maar ingewikkelder).
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| | | | | Author: | Stuart9 | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:43 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Received this too.
Just trying to get myself clued up before I reopen at a later date.
Am I correct in saying that I don’t need to take any action, I don’t sell €10,000
to the EU countries and I’m not registered for VAY in the U.K. as I don’t sell
enough.
I do have on-site payment.
Thanks for any help.
In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Stuart9 | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:46 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Should read VAT not VAY, whoops.
In Selling, Stuart9 writes:
| | Received this too.
Just trying to get myself clued up before I reopen at a later date.
Am I correct in saying that I don’t need to take any action, I don’t sell €10,000
to the EU countries and I’m not registered for VAY in the U.K. as I don’t sell
enough.
I do have on-site payment.
Thanks for any help.
In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | BrickZoneStore | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:50 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | Author: | Abels_Bricks | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:53 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Stuart9 writes:
| | Received this too.
Just trying to get myself clued up before I reopen at a later date.
Am I correct in saying that I don’t need to take any action, I don’t sell €10,000
to the EU countries and I’m not registered for VAY in the U.K. as I don’t sell
enough.
I do have on-site payment.
Thanks for any help.
In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
|
This is correct, and I imagine that that 90% of UK sellers on bricklink don't
get near this threshold or are registered for VAT in the UK.
Once again though bricklink seems to be using the hammer and nail solution.
David
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:44 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 104 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
Bricklink's rules are more strict than the legal bounds:
- Is it EUR 10000 total sales, or only foreign EU sales? The phrasing is ambiguous.
- If someone sold that much in the past, it doesn't mean they are going to
do so this year, but still Bricklink requires that registration even though they
don't need it. (This is also required in Germany but not in every country
- not in the NL for example)
Plus: Bricklink doesn't indicate how much you have and who is qualifying.
So sellers should figure out by themselves when Bricklink wants them to be registered,
otherwise they're gonna find their store suspended? It's weird. Bricklink,
can you please just offer the tools for sellers to do this correctly, and let
them decide for themselves how to do their accounting? That's how it works
in general, so why be inconsistent now? If you would go that way, then you must
also check all of the tax reports and suspend sellers who didn't do their
administration correctly. It's either the one or the other.
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| | | | | | | Author: | StickyBrickit | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:50 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| "Plus: Bricklink doesn't indicate how much you have and who is qualifying.
So sellers should figure out by themselves when Bricklink wants them to be registered,
otherwise they're gonna find their store suspended? It's weird. Bricklink,
can you please just offer the tools for sellers to do this correctly, and let
them decide for themselves how to do their accounting? That's how it works
in general, so why be inconsistent now? If you would go that way, then you must
also check all of the tax reports and suspend sellers who didn't do their
administration correctly. It's either the one or the other."
Might be pressure from Governments trying to close tax loopholes / rely on people
to accurately (honestly) do their own taxes. I have friends who's entire
eBay businesses have been shut down for good because eBay even just "suspected"
they weren't doing their taxes properly (which they were, and even got their
accountants to write them letters, contact eBay etc, but it didn't make any
difference).
So yes it's interference and opens you up to being shut down on a whim (even
a false one).
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| | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 04:53 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
|
The thing is, how are they going to check each store sold 10.000€ EUR in total
to the other EU members?
Admin_Russell, this means you are going to release the promised seller tools
with a store stats page within this 30 day timeframe?
Or are you gonna force each member to download and excel of their orders and
let them try to calculate it?
And then do so all BL admins to check each store after the grace period?
| |
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
Bricklink's rules are more strict than the legal bounds:
- Is it EUR 10000 total sales, or only foreign EU sales? The phrasing is ambiguous.
- If someone sold that much in the past, it doesn't mean they are going to
do so this year, but still Bricklink requires that registration even though they
don't need it. (This is also required in Germany but not in every country
- not in the NL for example)
Plus: Bricklink doesn't indicate how much you have and who is qualifying.
So sellers should figure out by themselves when Bricklink wants them to be registered,
otherwise they're gonna find their store suspended? It's weird. Bricklink,
can you please just offer the tools for sellers to do this correctly, and let
them decide for themselves how to do their accounting? That's how it works
in general, so why be inconsistent now? If you would go that way, then you must
also check all of the tax reports and suspend sellers who didn't do their
administration correctly. It's either the one or the other.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:03 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
|
The thing is, how are they going to check each store sold 10.000€ EUR in total
to the other EU members?
|
Yeah, I get the impression they don't have one clear way of figuring that
out:
"If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations..."
I haven't checked my books but in case I was over the limit last year, I
am just telling Bricklink right now:
I am not going to do it. You can suspend me all you want, I am just not going
to do it.
I am not able to do it. This would cause different VAT percentages and
that is not supported by my software right now. I will rewrite my software in
december. I already have that planned. I cannot do it now, and so I am
not able to accept and process orders with different VAT percentages.
I am perfectly able to make sure I stay under the limit for this year. I am completely
complying with the new laws. If that means you're still going to suspend
me, let me know and I will simply restrict my store to domestic customers, problem
solved.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 07:27 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 116 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
|
Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
 |
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
|
The thing is, how are they going to check each store sold 10.000€ EUR in total
to the other EU members?
|
We have the data on this and will be individually contacting sellers that fall
into that category. Discovering which sellers are over the limit is a legal requirement
for us.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 08:04 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
|
The thing is, how are they going to check each store sold 10.000€ EUR in total
to the other EU members?
|
We have the data on this and will be individually contacting sellers that fall
into that category. Discovering which sellers are over the limit is a legal requirement
for us.
|
This at least is good to know - so it's not some automatic one-size-fits-all
instant ban system, but individual communication. That's a good thing.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 08:07 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | The thing is, how are they going to check each store sold 10.000€ EUR in total
to the other EU members?
|
We have the data on this and will be individually contacting sellers that fall
into that category. Discovering which sellers are over the limit is a legal requirement
for us.
|
Out of interest what happens if a seller intends to keep their EU sales below
the 10K threshold and accidentally go over this by a small amount. I assume Bricklink
will immediately notify the seller to Register for VAT but is it then a point
of no return where the seller would be forced to register for VAT or would there
be some flexibility (if even legal?) to allow a seller to stop selling to the
EU for a bit until their EU sales have dropped off?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TBS | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 03:59 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | Out of interest what happens if a seller intends to keep their EU sales below
the 10K threshold and accidentally go over this by a small amount. I assume Bricklink
will immediately notify the seller to Register for VAT but is it then a point
of no return where the seller would be forced to register for VAT or would there
be some flexibility (if even legal?) to allow a seller to stop selling to the
EU for a bit until their EU sales have dropped off?
|
I suggest to monitor your EU-Sales actively and prevent going above the "10000€
Sales for the entire EU" threshold. Meaning, disabling Sale to them then a bit
earlier.
In case you missed that mistakenly, a cancellation of the last order which brought
you over that threshold might work as well.
It´s not great for the buyer, i know, but maybe mandatory to prevent buerocratic
nightmares.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 05:55 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, TBS writes:
| | In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | Out of interest what happens if a seller intends to keep their EU sales below
the 10K threshold and accidentally go over this by a small amount. I assume Bricklink
will immediately notify the seller to Register for VAT but is it then a point
of no return where the seller would be forced to register for VAT or would there
be some flexibility (if even legal?) to allow a seller to stop selling to the
EU for a bit until their EU sales have dropped off?
|
I suggest to monitor your EU-Sales actively and prevent going above the "10000€
Sales for the entire EU" threshold. Meaning, disabling Sale to them then a bit
earlier.
In case you missed that mistakenly, a cancellation of the last order which brought
you over that threshold might work as well.
It´s not great for the buyer, i know, but maybe mandatory to prevent buerocratic
nightmares.
|
I have actually since restricted all EU business for now partly as its difficult
to monitor EU sales when you have some funds coming in from paypal and then others
from bank transfers via ebay managed payments but my bigger issue is that I'm
not confident about my EU customers not being charged VAT twice as I don't
generally use online shipping methods which are required to upload the IOSS
number and even if I attach all manor of customs VAT paperwork I cannot for the
life of me beleive border control are actually going to take the time to inspect
the paperwork for every single package that enters an EU country. I think I will
wait for others to navigate the minefield and see how things pan out over the
coming months!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Llewyn | | Posted: | Sep 9, 2021 05:30 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| As I understand it this regulation applies only to cross-border sales within
the EU; as a UK seller not in Northern Ireland it doesn't apply to you at
all.
In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | Out of interest what happens if a seller intends to keep their EU sales below
the 10K threshold and accidentally go over this by a small amount. I assume Bricklink
will immediately notify the seller to Register for VAT but is it then a point
of no return where the seller would be forced to register for VAT or would there
be some flexibility (if even legal?) to allow a seller to stop selling to the
EU for a bit until their EU sales have dropped off?
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jancg | | Posted: | Sep 9, 2021 02:47 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| BrickLink,
mr. Russell,
Today I (and likely many sellers) received another email titled 'Upcoming
EU Distance Sales of Goods Changes'.
I am truly astonished, quite sad actually, that BrickLink doesn't mention
acknowledging the 'margin scheme' exemption. BrickLink received dozens
of emails from concerned sellers the past 2 months addressing this topic.
In the Netherlands authorities state: goods sold under the 'margin scheme'
rules do not count towards the 'EUR 10 000 distance selling threshold'.
Can you PLEASE confirm that BrickLink will acknowledge the above statement?
PLEASE!
Kind regards, Jan. (on behalve of dozens of sellers)
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Sep 9, 2021 04:07 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, jancg writes:
| | BrickLink,
mr. Russell,
Today I (and likely many sellers) received another email titled 'Upcoming
EU Distance Sales of Goods Changes'.
I am truly astonished, quite sad actually, that BrickLink doesn't mention
acknowledging the 'margin scheme' exemption. BrickLink received dozens
of emails from concerned sellers the past 2 months addressing this topic.
In the Netherlands authorities state: goods sold under the 'margin scheme'
rules do not count towards the 'EUR 10 000 distance selling threshold'.
Can you PLEASE confirm that BrickLink will acknowledge the above statement?
PLEASE!
Kind regards, Jan. (on behalve of dozens of sellers)
|
This is an important point, it's really unacceptable how Bricklink has kept
used lego sellers in the dark about this. In the most extreme cases it could
even mean having to switch careers or at least setting up different selling venues.
Apart from that, I am happy to see Bricklink has stripped the policy down to
the actual minimum requirements - only when you really are going to pass the
threshold do you need to sign up (no more mention of last year's sales),
and if not, you can still sell in your home country, rather than a complete selling
suspension. These are good modifications/updates!
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | rankster | | Posted: | Sep 9, 2021 04:38 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| |
This is an important point, it's really unacceptable how Bricklink has kept
used lego sellers in the dark about this. In the most extreme cases it could
even mean having to switch careers or at least setting up different selling venues.
Apart from that, I am happy to see Bricklink has stripped the policy down to
the actual minimum requirements - only when you really are going to pass the
threshold do you need to sign up (no more mention of last year's sales),
and if not, you can still sell in your home country, rather than a complete selling
suspension. These are good modifications/updates!
|
I'm a bit worried about the following statement in the e-mail.
"If your sales in the 2021 calendar year to date are above the new EUR 10
000 distance sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the
OSS or in each individual EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink. A guide
for this process will be sent once the feature is released."
I was told by my tax professional that it should not be counted for the whole
year of 2021 but from July 1st. Hope BrickLink will take this into account. My
plan is not registering for OSS before 2022 since I won't pass the 10k treshold
between July 1st and December 31st.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | EmblaRonja | | Posted: | Sep 9, 2021 11:07 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| Yeah what a mess this is!!
Asked my tax authorities and was told that if I register for the new OSS I have
to use it and can not sell under “Margin scheme”.
Then asked BrickLink and they confirmed that they have noticed the problem and
suggested me to open another account to sell from - they told they would allow
this for certain sellers.
But what should I do with a second shop? I only sell used Lego...
Still very confused and remaining closed until this matter is cleared,
/Niclas
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | brick_projects | | Posted: | Sep 9, 2021 05:21 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
|
The thing is, how are they going to check each store sold 10.000€ EUR in total
to the other EU members?
|
We have the data on this and will be individually contacting sellers that fall
into that category. Discovering which sellers are over the limit is a legal requirement
for us.
|
In strict terms the 10.000 euro "distance selling of GOODS" is physical product,
i.e. Lego ?
Does shipping paid on order also qualify and count toward 10.000 euro threshold
?
This makes a huge difference as +/- 20% of my sales are S&H ...
I'm desperate to stay under the threshold as to avoid extra administration
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Sep 9, 2021 05:33 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, brick_projects writes:
| | In Selling, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
|
The thing is, how are they going to check each store sold 10.000€ EUR in total
to the other EU members?
|
We have the data on this and will be individually contacting sellers that fall
into that category. Discovering which sellers are over the limit is a legal requirement
for us.
|
In strict terms the 10.000 euro "distance selling of GOODS" is physical product,
i.e. Lego ?
Does shipping paid on order also qualify and count toward 10.000 euro threshold
?
This makes a huge difference as +/- 20% of my sales are S&H ...
I'm desperate to stay under the threshold as to avoid extra administration
|
As far as I know, it counts the total sale amount, so includes the cost of goods
plus any shipping fees. And also all including VAT if you are already registered.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | rankster | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:02 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
|
Yeah, this caught my attention too. It sounds totally insane. I don't know
what should I do with this...
I'm VAT-exempt at the moment and I was told by my tax professional that it's
totally OK if I don't register for OSS yet since I won't reach the EUR
10 000 treshold until the end of this year so it's OK to register at the
beginning of 2022 only.
But BrickLink says they will suspend sellers after 30 days after receiving this
notice if they don't register?
| |
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
Bricklink's rules are more strict than the legal bounds:
- Is it EUR 10000 total sales, or only foreign EU sales? The phrasing is ambiguous.
- If someone sold that much in the past, it doesn't mean they are going to
do so this year, but still Bricklink requires that registration even though they
don't need it. (This is also required in Germany but not in every country
- not in the NL for example)
Plus: Bricklink doesn't indicate how much you have and who is qualifying.
So sellers should figure out by themselves when Bricklink wants them to be registered,
otherwise they're gonna find their store suspended? It's weird. Bricklink,
can you please just offer the tools for sellers to do this correctly, and let
them decide for themselves how to do their accounting? That's how it works
in general, so why be inconsistent now? If you would go that way, then you must
also check all of the tax reports and suspend sellers who didn't do their
administration correctly. It's either the one or the other.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:14 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
|
I guess they are. BL is now VAT liable, so... yes they interfere.
| |
Bricklink's rules are more strict than the legal bounds:
- Is it EUR 10000 total sales, or only foreign EU sales? The phrasing is ambiguous.
- If someone sold that much in the past, it doesn't mean they are going to
do so this year, but still Bricklink requires that registration even though they
don't need it. (This is also required in Germany but not in every country
- not in the NL for example)
Plus: Bricklink doesn't indicate how much you have and who is qualifying.
So sellers should figure out by themselves when Bricklink wants them to be registered,
otherwise they're gonna find their store suspended? It's weird. Bricklink,
can you please just offer the tools for sellers to do this correctly, and let
them decide for themselves how to do their accounting? That's how it works
in general, so why be inconsistent now? If you would go that way, then you must
also check all of the tax reports and suspend sellers who didn't do their
administration correctly. It's either the one or the other.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:19 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
|
I guess they are. BL is now VAT liable, so... yes they interfere.
|
But that's not really logical. Why check this one thing when in general sellers
have full autonomy over their bookkeeping? Either you take control, or you leave
it to them. To check this one random thing makes no sense - sellers could still
simply not use their registration, or simply not report some of their orders
at all.
This is like frisk-searching all visitors but only checking their left pocket.
If Bricklink would force you to register for OSS, you could simply do it, get
the number, and then not use it. It doesn't make sense.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:22 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
|
I guess they are. BL is now VAT liable, so... yes they interfere.
|
But that's not really logical. Why check this one thing when in general sellers
have full autonomy over their bookkeeping? Either you take control, or you leave
it to them. To check this one random thing makes no sense - sellers could still
simply not use their registration, or simply not report some of their orders
at all.
This is like frisk-searching all visitors but only checking their left pocket.
If Bricklink would force you to register for OSS, you could simply do it, get
the number, and then not use it. It doesn't make sense.
|
OMP's get more responsibility and hence also more power due to the new laws
and regulations, it's the way things go right now. EU wants a piece of the
pie of online trading, and it is a big pie really big. Last time I read 700 billion
euro per year, do the math how much VAT that is
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:38 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
|
I guess they are. BL is now VAT liable, so... yes they interfere.
|
But that's not really logical. Why check this one thing when in general sellers
have full autonomy over their bookkeeping? Either you take control, or you leave
it to them. To check this one random thing makes no sense - sellers could still
simply not use their registration, or simply not report some of their orders
at all.
This is like frisk-searching all visitors but only checking their left pocket.
If Bricklink would force you to register for OSS, you could simply do it, get
the number, and then not use it. It doesn't make sense.
|
OMP's get more responsibility and hence also more power due to the new laws
and regulations, it's the way things go right now. EU wants a piece of the
pie of online trading, and it is a big pie really big. Last time I read 700 billion
euro per year, do the math how much VAT that is
|
Well, in the case of levying VAT between tax communities, yes, that is something
that makes sense to do. That is a decently closed loop.
But I don't see how they're getting any kind of control with this OSS/VAT
registration obligation. You can simply get the registration and not use it,
or not report your sales, or change your records, the sky is the limit. It's
like putting up 1 small piece of fence that you can easily go around. Now, if
they would take responsibility over the entire bookkeeping, then yes,
that would be the only way to close the loop. And that would be the best thing
that could happen  Means we don't need to keep our records. I'd definitely
be in favour of that 
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:44 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
|
I guess they are. BL is now VAT liable, so... yes they interfere.
|
But that's not really logical. Why check this one thing when in general sellers
have full autonomy over their bookkeeping? Either you take control, or you leave
it to them. To check this one random thing makes no sense - sellers could still
simply not use their registration, or simply not report some of their orders
at all.
This is like frisk-searching all visitors but only checking their left pocket.
If Bricklink would force you to register for OSS, you could simply do it, get
the number, and then not use it. It doesn't make sense.
|
OMP's get more responsibility and hence also more power due to the new laws
and regulations, it's the way things go right now. EU wants a piece of the
pie of online trading, and it is a big pie really big. Last time I read 700 billion
euro per year, do the math how much VAT that is
|
Well, in the case of levying VAT between tax communities, yes, that is something
that makes sense to do. That is a decently closed loop.
But I don't see how they're getting any kind of control with this OSS/VAT
registration obligation. You can simply get the registration and not use it,
or not report your sales, or change your records, the sky is the limit. It's
like putting up 1 small piece of fence that you can easily go around. Now, if
they would take responsibility over the entire bookkeeping, then yes,
that would be the only way to close the loop. And that would be the best thing
that could happen Means we don't need to keep our records. I'd definitely
be in favour of that
|
I read it like this: if your sales through BrickLink will exceed 10k then
BrickLink might suspend your store if not VAT/OSS registered. Also if the TAX
agency gives BrickLink notice that your total sales exceeds 10k BrickLink might
be obliged to suspend your store as well.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:11 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
|
I guess they are. BL is now VAT liable, so... yes they interfere.
|
But that's not really logical. Why check this one thing when in general sellers
have full autonomy over their bookkeeping? Either you take control, or you leave
it to them. To check this one random thing makes no sense - sellers could still
simply not use their registration, or simply not report some of their orders
at all.
This is like frisk-searching all visitors but only checking their left pocket.
If Bricklink would force you to register for OSS, you could simply do it, get
the number, and then not use it. It doesn't make sense.
|
OMP's get more responsibility and hence also more power due to the new laws
and regulations, it's the way things go right now. EU wants a piece of the
pie of online trading, and it is a big pie really big. Last time I read 700 billion
euro per year, do the math how much VAT that is
|
Well, in the case of levying VAT between tax communities, yes, that is something
that makes sense to do. That is a decently closed loop.
But I don't see how they're getting any kind of control with this OSS/VAT
registration obligation. You can simply get the registration and not use it,
or not report your sales, or change your records, the sky is the limit. It's
like putting up 1 small piece of fence that you can easily go around. Now, if
they would take responsibility over the entire bookkeeping, then yes,
that would be the only way to close the loop. And that would be the best thing
that could happen Means we don't need to keep our records. I'd definitely
be in favour of that
|
I read it like this: if your sales through BrickLink will exceed 10k then
BrickLink might suspend your store if not VAT/OSS registered. Also if the TAX
agency gives BrickLink notice that your total sales exceeds 10k BrickLink might
be obliged to suspend your store as well.
|
I mean you can still choose not to report any of it. Getting the registration
isn't really proof of anything. If Bricklink wanted/needed to know their
sellers are acting in accorandance with the law, the only way to do that is to
do their tax reporting.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:11 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| And how should I know for the last 12 months if I have reached the 10K ?
All orders are purged after 6 months and I cannot see that in an easy way on
the order received page...
In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, patpendlego writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
I'm fine with the new VAT rules but....
"If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above the new EUR 10 000 distance
sales of goods threshold, you will need to register for the OSS or in each individual
EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink.
If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink. "
I'm sorry... what?
Bricklink is going to do my accounting now? Bricklink never helps, which is 100%
fair, but why do they interfere now? This is completely up to the sellers and
Bricklink has no business checking sellers administration like that.
|
I guess they are. BL is now VAT liable, so... yes they interfere.
|
But that's not really logical. Why check this one thing when in general sellers
have full autonomy over their bookkeeping? Either you take control, or you leave
it to them. To check this one random thing makes no sense - sellers could still
simply not use their registration, or simply not report some of their orders
at all.
This is like frisk-searching all visitors but only checking their left pocket.
If Bricklink would force you to register for OSS, you could simply do it, get
the number, and then not use it. It doesn't make sense.
|
OMP's get more responsibility and hence also more power due to the new laws
and regulations, it's the way things go right now. EU wants a piece of the
pie of online trading, and it is a big pie really big. Last time I read 700 billion
euro per year, do the math how much VAT that is
|
Well, in the case of levying VAT between tax communities, yes, that is something
that makes sense to do. That is a decently closed loop.
But I don't see how they're getting any kind of control with this OSS/VAT
registration obligation. You can simply get the registration and not use it,
or not report your sales, or change your records, the sky is the limit. It's
like putting up 1 small piece of fence that you can easily go around. Now, if
they would take responsibility over the entire bookkeeping, then yes,
that would be the only way to close the loop. And that would be the best thing
that could happen Means we don't need to keep our records. I'd definitely
be in favour of that
|
I read it like this: if your sales through BrickLink will exceed 10k then
BrickLink might suspend your store if not VAT/OSS registered. Also if the TAX
agency gives BrickLink notice that your total sales exceeds 10k BrickLink might
be obliged to suspend your store as well.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:13 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:19 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| Cool, thank you!
In Selling, enig writes:
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TBS | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2021 04:06 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | But that's not really logical. Why check this one thing when in general sellers
have full autonomy over their bookkeeping? Either you take control, or you leave
it to them. To check this one random thing makes no sense - sellers could still
simply not use their registration, or simply not report some of their orders
at all.
This is like frisk-searching all visitors but only checking their left pocket.
If Bricklink would force you to register for OSS, you could simply do it, get
the number, and then not use it. It doesn't make sense.
|
The Tax-Authorities are going to let BL bleed for the Tax their Sellers messed
up now.
BL now has to pay it, if these Sellers didn´t but said so.
That´s why they (BL) want to prevent it in the first place, which is absolutely
reasonable.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Kuboteka | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 05:27 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Admin Russell, if you read it - we need to contact you about our store processes.
We have difference with simple EU stores you know.
Please write where we can contact you about VAT regulations. Thanks.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:21 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| I'm really not fully understanding why anyone is hitting out at Bricklink.
They are simply advising that sellers need to comply with the new rules/laws
and this would be no different whichever platform you sell on?
Speaking of which I think some are mis-understanding as this is'nt just about
Bricklink sales. Essentially if your combined EU sales on ebay, Bricklink, Brickowl
or whichever platforms you sell on exceeed EUR 10,000 then you need to register
for VAT using the options given or do as I have done and limit your EU sales
on certain platforms. For instance for the time being I no longer sell to EU
countries on ebay but I do currently sell to EU on Bricklink/Brickowl as this
allows me to remain well below the threshold without having to constantly monitor
and be concerned about accidentally exceeding the threshold because if you do
exceed this threshold then you along with the online market places you sell on
are expected to comply!
It does'nt necessarily mean that Bricklink are going to be heavilly involved
with monitoring us all to ensure we are complying by the rules after all it would
be difficult to know if a seller is exceeding their vat obligations if they only
exceed this amount when combining sales accross multiple platforms and so its
down to individual sellers themselves to ensure they are complying by the rules
though if the authorities, Bricklink or any other online market place deems this
not to be the case then they would all be obligated to take the exact same action!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:29 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | It does'nt necessarily mean that Bricklink are going to be heavilly involved
with monitoring us all to ensure we are complying by the rules after all it would
be difficult to know if a seller is exceeding their vat obligations if they only
exceed this amount when combining sales accross multiple platforms and so its
down to individual sellers themselves to ensure they are complying by the rules
though if the authorities, Bricklink or any other online market place deems this
not to be the case then they would all be obligated to take the exact same action!
|
The problem is that the BL statement is more strict than the actual laws: They
apply it to last year as well, and it's uncertain which sales they are counting
as the statement doesn't unambiguously say they purely count the sales that
really are relevant for the €10000 threshold.
Obviously, everyone has to act in accordance with the law, but we don't need
Bricklink to nag us about one random specific aspect of that in a way that is
more strict than the law itself.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | rankster | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:40 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | The problem is that the BL statement is more strict than the actual laws: They
apply it to last year as well, and it's uncertain which sales they are counting
as the statement doesn't unambiguously say they purely count the sales that
really are relevant for the €10000 threshold.
Obviously, everyone has to act in accordance with the law, but we don't need
Bricklink to nag us about one random specific aspect of that in a way that is
more strict than the law itself.
|
+1
I was told by my tax professional that I have nothing to do with my preceding
12 months sales (at least here in Austria, it could vary by country). All I need
to monitor is my sales from July 1st, 2021 and if it's not exceeding the
EUR 10 000 treshold this year I'm OK to register not sooner than 2022.
From the e-mail: "If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above
the new EUR 10 000 distance sales of goods threshold, you will need to register
for the OSS or in each individual EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink"
That's quite the opposite of what my tax professional said...
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 06:50 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, rankster writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | The problem is that the BL statement is more strict than the actual laws: They
apply it to last year as well, and it's uncertain which sales they are counting
as the statement doesn't unambiguously say they purely count the sales that
really are relevant for the €10000 threshold.
Obviously, everyone has to act in accordance with the law, but we don't need
Bricklink to nag us about one random specific aspect of that in a way that is
more strict than the law itself.
|
+1
I was told by my tax professional that I have nothing to do with my preceding
12 months sales (at least here in Austria, it could vary by country). All I need
to monitor is my sales from July 1st, 2021 and if it's not exceeding the
EUR 10 000 treshold this year I'm OK to register not sooner than 2022.
From the e-mail: "If your sales in the preceding 12 months are above
the new EUR 10 000 distance sales of goods threshold, you will need to register
for the OSS or in each individual EU Member State where you sell on BrickLink"
That's quite the opposite of what my tax professional said...
|
Interesting, yes, it's the same here - it says so on the Dutch tax agency
site.
A German member showed me that in Germany, it actually is the way Bricklink describes
it: You need to register if you passed the limit last year. So the exact implementation
seems to vary a bit per country. But the message from Bricklink sounds like they're
gonna take the strictest rules and make everyone follow those even though it
doesn't apply to them (which could be various scenarios - also margin VAT
sales...). That doesn't benefit anyone - not Bricklink, not the sellers,
and not the buyers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 07:38 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | But the message from Bricklink sounds like they're
gonna take the strictest rules and make everyone follow those even though it
doesn't apply to them (which could be various scenarios - also margin VAT
sales...). That doesn't benefit anyone - not Bricklink, not the sellers,
and not the buyers.
|
They have only said:-
"If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink."
I would Look it as a simple warning for your own best interests rather than some
kind of statement where they are out to get you!
If you stay below the vat threshold or register for vat when selling over this
threshold you have nothing to worry about but it goes without saying if its blatantly
obvious to Bricklink and/or outside authorities that your not complying thats
the only time you need to worry!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 08:28 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | But the message from Bricklink sounds like they're
gonna take the strictest rules and make everyone follow those even though it
doesn't apply to them (which could be various scenarios - also margin VAT
sales...). That doesn't benefit anyone - not Bricklink, not the sellers,
and not the buyers.
|
They have only said:-
"If BrickLink determines or receives notification that you are not meeting your
VAT obligations within 30 days after receiving this notice, this will result
in the suspension of your selling abilities on BrickLink."
I would Look it as a simple warning for your own best interests rather than some
kind of statement where they are out to get you!
If you stay below the vat threshold or register for vat when selling over this
threshold you have nothing to worry about but it goes without saying if its blatantly
obvious to Bricklink and/or outside authorities that your not complying thats
the only time you need to worry!
|
Yeah, you could be right - Russell already mentioned they will contact sellers
individually if something appears out of line, so it's not an automatic ban
system. So the soup may not be eaten as hot as they cook it
I'm mostly curious about how they are going to deal with margin VAT sellers
who are allowed to ignore the new rules - how understanding or how strict they're
going to be then.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | misbi | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 13:13 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
That doesn't benefit anyone - not Bricklink, not the sellers, and not the
buyers.
It was only ever meant to benefit governments who for some time, were looking
for a way to raise tax from internet trading.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 13:17 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, misbi writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
That doesn't benefit anyone - not Bricklink, not the sellers, and not the
buyers.
It was only ever meant to benefit governments who for some time, were looking
for a way to raise tax from internet trading.
|
I am fine with the new regulations, but what I am saying is that the fact that
Bricklink seems to voluntarily make it more strict than the law is not helping
anyone involved.
But let's see how strict it's going to turn out in reality.
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 07:13 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | It does'nt necessarily mean that Bricklink are going to be heavilly involved
with monitoring us all to ensure we are complying by the rules after all it would
be difficult to know if a seller is exceeding their vat obligations if they only
exceed this amount when combining sales accross multiple platforms and so its
down to individual sellers themselves to ensure they are complying by the rules
though if the authorities, Bricklink or any other online market place deems this
not to be the case then they would all be obligated to take the exact same action!
|
The problem is that the BL statement is more strict than the actual laws: They
apply it to last year as well, and it's uncertain which sales they are counting
as the statement doesn't unambiguously say they purely count the sales that
really are relevant for the €10000 threshold.
Obviously, everyone has to act in accordance with the law, but we don't need
Bricklink to nag us about one random specific aspect of that in a way that is
more strict than the law itself.
|
Well yes the Bricklink statement could have read in detail that it refers to
a sellers total EU sales combined across ALL selling platforms and given other
further clarity etc etc...but they are only going to reiterate the changes from
their own market place perspective. Remember these new changes did'nt come
from Bricklink themselves and so it does also come down to us as sellers to also
read and look into this stuff even though I admit it is all quite confusing
But if a car saleman sells you a car they will assume you already understand
that you will also need to take out insurance, road tax etc... the point being
that it is'nt neccessarily down to Bricklink to ensure you fully understand
what is required with the changes as they can only offer guideance and the infrastructure
required to support those changes
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| | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 07:38 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Hi David,
I don't understand your message and I don't understand why you received
the same message as EU sellers.
When I would buy from your store, Bricklink collects 21% VAT for you.
So this is all it takes, isn't it?
If VAT is already paid by Bricklink, why would you have to register for OSS?
Diana
|
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 08:18 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, TakeAbricK writes:
| | […]
Hi David,
I don't understand your message and I don't understand why you received
the same message as EU sellers.
When I would buy from your store, Bricklink collects 21% VAT for you.
So this is all it takes, isn't it?
If VAT is already paid by Bricklink, why would you have to register for OSS?
Diana
|
Yes, that’s surprising. Or is there (again) some complicated scheme with Northern
Ireland and either it affects all UK sellers or BL decided to send to all UK
sellers anyway?
|
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Abels_Bricks | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 08:55 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Hi David,
I don't understand your message and I don't understand why you received
the same message as EU sellers.
When I would buy from your store, Bricklink collects 21% VAT for you.
So this is all it takes, isn't it?
If VAT is already paid by Bricklink, why would you have to register for OSS?
Diana
|
Hi Diane
Uk sellers don't have to be registered for VAT in the UK until Gross income
tops £85k, but these new rules cover all sales into EU countries so all sellers
selling over Euro 10k need to have an IOSS number or be registered in an OSS
scheme. (this is my understanding so far) so the only thing I pay VAT on with
bricklink is my fees.
There is also no exception for low value sales anymore Euro 22 or less.
The main issue is that other sales portals seem to have at least made an effort
to allow sellers to integrate VAT payments within their own systems so the transition
to the new VAT rules was fairly easy.
But as I have already stated all my sales to Europe have dried up as customers
are weary of getting extra charges from their local customs/tax authorities,
I know this is the case for at least 2 good German customers who I have spoken
to in regards to import levies they faced on purchases from another of my stores.
David
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 09:20 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | […]
Uk sellers don't have to be registered for VAT in the UK until Gross income
tops £85k, but these new rules cover all sales into EU countries so all sellers
selling over Euro 10k need to have an IOSS number or be registered in an OSS
scheme. (this is my understanding so far) so the only thing I pay VAT on with
bricklink is my fees.
There is also no exception for low value sales anymore Euro 22 or less. […]
|
This “EU threshold” applies only to EU sellers, for their intra-EU sales (excl.
domestic).
Non-EU sellers are in the other scheme, the marketplace scheme (already implemented
by BL):
— for sales under €150 to final buyers, VAT is collected by the markeplace (BL),
— for sales above €150 or to EU VAT-registered businesses, VAT is collected at
delivery (as before).
(Big sellers could register for IOSS on their own but then they are not in the
marketplace scheme anymore.)
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Abels_Bricks | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 09:39 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | […]
Uk sellers don't have to be registered for VAT in the UK until Gross income
tops £85k, but these new rules cover all sales into EU countries so all sellers
selling over Euro 10k need to have an IOSS number or be registered in an OSS
scheme. (this is my understanding so far) so the only thing I pay VAT on with
bricklink is my fees.
There is also no exception for low value sales anymore Euro 22 or less. […]
|
This “EU threshold” applies only to EU sellers, for their intra-EU sales (excl.
domestic).
Non-EU sellers are in the other scheme, the marketplace scheme (already implemented
by BL):
— for sales under €150 to final buyers, VAT is collected by the markeplace (BL),
— for sales above €150 or to EU VAT-registered businesses, VAT is collected at
delivery (as before).
(Big sellers could register for IOSS on their own but then they are not in the
marketplace scheme anymore.)
|
Thanks for the reply.
If this is the case that's great but as I haven't had any sales to the
EU since end April I cannot confirm that this is working as intended.
its seems to be a all-consuming mess that`s confusing EU and NON-EU sellers combined
and honestly it does not seem to be bricklinks fault in this case, but I would
point out that if it doesn't affect me (or UK sellers) then maybe not sent
the email to UK sellers.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 11:26 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | […]
its seems to be a all-consuming mess that`s confusing EU and NON-EU sellers combined
and honestly it does not seem to be bricklinks fault in this case, but I would
point out that if it doesn't affect me (or UK sellers) then maybe not sent
the email to UK sellers.
|
Yeah, that’s why TakeAbricK and I are puzzled you received the letter.
But it also may be that there’s exceptions for Northern Ireland… and then it
may affect all UK sellers by ricochet.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 11:46 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | […]
its seems to be a all-consuming mess that`s confusing EU and NON-EU sellers combined
and honestly it does not seem to be bricklinks fault in this case, but I would
point out that if it doesn't affect me (or UK sellers) then maybe not sent
the email to UK sellers.
|
Yeah, that’s why TakeAbricK and I are puzzled you received the letter.
But it also may be that there’s exceptions for Northern Ireland… and then it
may affect all UK sellers by ricochet.
|
Indeed Northern Ireland is suddenly a border due to all these changes, it's
a complicating factor if all is not complicating enough already...
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RecycledBrick | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 12:33 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Vosblokjes | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 15:13 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, RecycledBrick writes:
| | I received the email as well so it could have just been sent to everyone
|
The mail is also sent to buyers only.
My wife has her own account and she got the mail as well 
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 15:15 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, BasKrie writes:
| | In Selling, RecycledBrick writes:
| | I received the email as well so it could have just been sent to everyone
|
The mail is also sent to buyers only.
My wife has her own account and she got the mail as well
|
Okay, not confusing at all….
I guess BL is only able to either send to everyone or to no one.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 09:32 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Hi David,
I don't understand your message and I don't understand why you received
the same message as EU sellers.
When I would buy from your store, Bricklink collects 21% VAT for you.
So this is all it takes, isn't it?
If VAT is already paid by Bricklink, why would you have to register for OSS?
Diana
|
Hi Diane
Uk sellers don't have to be registered for VAT in the UK until Gross income
tops £85k, but these new rules cover all sales into EU countries so all sellers
selling over Euro 10k need to have an IOSS number or be registered in an OSS
scheme. (this is my understanding so far) so the only thing I pay VAT on with
bricklink is my fees.
There is also no exception for low value sales anymore Euro 22 or less.
The main issue is that other sales portals seem to have at least made an effort
to allow sellers to integrate VAT payments within their own systems so the transition
to the new VAT rules was fairly easy.
But as I have already stated all my sales to Europe have dried up as customers
are weary of getting extra charges from their local customs/tax authorities,
I know this is the case for at least 2 good German customers who I have spoken
to in regards to import levies they faced on purchases from another of my stores.
David
|
There is one positive though in that UK buyers are also spending more of their
money with UK sellers as the added VAT is outweighing the savings they may of
once made from buying from the EU especially as EU stores have often offered
some of the most competative pricing on Bricklink however things look to be balancing
out a bit now
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Abels_Bricks | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 09:44 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Hi David,
I don't understand your message and I don't understand why you received
the same message as EU sellers.
When I would buy from your store, Bricklink collects 21% VAT for you.
So this is all it takes, isn't it?
If VAT is already paid by Bricklink, why would you have to register for OSS?
Diana
|
Hi Diane
Uk sellers don't have to be registered for VAT in the UK until Gross income
tops £85k, but these new rules cover all sales into EU countries so all sellers
selling over Euro 10k need to have an IOSS number or be registered in an OSS
scheme. (this is my understanding so far) so the only thing I pay VAT on with
bricklink is my fees.
There is also no exception for low value sales anymore Euro 22 or less.
The main issue is that other sales portals seem to have at least made an effort
to allow sellers to integrate VAT payments within their own systems so the transition
to the new VAT rules was fairly easy.
But as I have already stated all my sales to Europe have dried up as customers
are weary of getting extra charges from their local customs/tax authorities,
I know this is the case for at least 2 good German customers who I have spoken
to in regards to import levies they faced on purchases from another of my stores.
David
|
There is one positive though in that UK buyers are also spending more of their
money with UK sellers as the added VAT is outweighing the savings they may of
once made from buying from the EU especially as EU stores have often offered
some of the most competative pricing on Bricklink however things look to be balancing
out a bit now
|
I have noticed a slight uptick in UK sales with an increase in value of sales.
I suppose we can only wait and see how this all pans out.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2021 10:08 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, infinibrix writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
Hi David,
I don't understand your message and I don't understand why you received
the same message as EU sellers.
When I would buy from your store, Bricklink collects 21% VAT for you.
So this is all it takes, isn't it?
If VAT is already paid by Bricklink, why would you have to register for OSS?
Diana
|
Hi Diane
Uk sellers don't have to be registered for VAT in the UK until Gross income
tops £85k, but these new rules cover all sales into EU countries so all sellers
selling over Euro 10k need to have an IOSS number or be registered in an OSS
scheme. (this is my understanding so far) so the only thing I pay VAT on with
bricklink is my fees.
There is also no exception for low value sales anymore Euro 22 or less.
The main issue is that other sales portals seem to have at least made an effort
to allow sellers to integrate VAT payments within their own systems so the transition
to the new VAT rules was fairly easy.
But as I have already stated all my sales to Europe have dried up as customers
are weary of getting extra charges from their local customs/tax authorities,
I know this is the case for at least 2 good German customers who I have spoken
to in regards to import levies they faced on purchases from another of my stores.
David
|
There is one positive though in that UK buyers are also spending more of their
money with UK sellers as the added VAT is outweighing the savings they may of
once made from buying from the EU especially as EU stores have often offered
some of the most competative pricing on Bricklink however things look to be balancing
out a bit now
|
I have noticed a slight uptick in UK sales with an increase in value of sales.
I suppose we can only wait and see how this all pans out.
|
Same and like you my EU sales have pretty much disappeared. In fact I may even
restrict EU sales completely as they require extra time/paperwork and I'm
not confident about whether my customers are going to be charged VAT twice as
I don't use an online shipping process
|
|
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| | | | | Author: | Abels_Bricks | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 05:08 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
So a quick update.
Had an ebay sale from a customer in Europe, Ebay took the tax and added the IOSS
number to the address for download.
Charged me an extra 0.5% fee for the process, which is fine.
BRICKLINK this is what you should be doing, we are sellers on your platform,
just as ebay, brickowl, etsy and all the others.
There is NO reason you should not be doing the same.
David
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 05:24 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
So a quick update.
Had an ebay sale from a customer in Europe, Ebay took the tax and added the IOSS
number to the address for download.
Charged me an extra 0.5% fee for the process, which is fine.
BRICKLINK this is what you should be doing, we are sellers on your platform,
just as ebay, brickowl, etsy and all the others.
There is NO reason you should not be doing the same.
David
|
This is what Bricklink does already... and cheaper, you only pay the PayPal/Stripe
fee of the total amount the buyer pays, and automatically sends the TAX to Bricklink's
account.
Then you get in the order details and by email the invoice and IOSS number.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Abels_Bricks | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 08:06 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Stellar writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
|
So a quick update.
Had an ebay sale from a customer in Europe, Ebay took the tax and added the IOSS
number to the address for download.
Charged me an extra 0.5% fee for the process, which is fine.
BRICKLINK this is what you should be doing, we are sellers on your platform,
just as ebay, brickowl, etsy and all the others.
There is NO reason you should not be doing the same.
David
|
This is what Bricklink does already... and cheaper, you only pay the PayPal/Stripe
fee of the total amount the buyer pays, and automatically sends the TAX to Bricklink's
account.
Then you get in the order details and by email the invoice and IOSS number.
|
If this is the case then why the original email? If BL have already registered
for an IOSS number and they are taking the vat and allowing sellers to add the
IOSS number to the parcel address I fail to understand why the need for requesting
we register for an OSS number.
Seriously if this is just a storm in a teacup then I apologise, I`ve just not
been able to confirm what you have stated myself due to zero EU sales since end
of April.
David
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 08:38 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | […]
If this is the case then why the original email? If BL have already registered
for an IOSS number and they are taking the vat and allowing sellers to add the
IOSS number to the parcel address I fail to understand why the need for requesting
we register for an OSS number.
|
The IOSS VAT, Import One Stop Shop VAT, is for Imports, so for non-EU sellers
and marketplaces. When a non-EU sellers goes through a marketplace, it’s the
marketplace that’s responsible, the seller has nothing to do (but give BL’s IOSS
when necessary).
BL is registered to the IOSS, has an IOSS VAT ID, has implemented the mechanism
on time for July 1st, has already messaged about it (both e-mail and on the forum:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1277484
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1278461 ), and has written two FAQs
about it:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2518
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2517 .
The OSS VAT, One Stop Shop VAT, is for sellers in EU and Northern Ireland. It’s
the one which has a threshold of 10,000€ of sales in other EU countries.
No, we don’t know why the message was sent to everyone.
Yes, it’s not very specific about whom is concerned. (Though “other EU countries”
is a hint you have to be in a EU country, and the rule was already mentionned
in the first message about VAT, it would have been nice if it had been clearer…
even as a precision in a second message.)
| | Seriously if this is just a storm in a teacup then I apologise,
|
No real need for apologies, the message was not clear.
| | I`ve just not
been able to confirm what you have stated myself due to zero EU sales since end
of April.
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Well, there’s the other messages and the FAQs that say how it works.
There’s also a bunch of threads for sellers, generally because they didn’t get
the invoice or the IOSS, either because the sale didn’t need it (above €150 or
VAT-registered buyer) or because the buyer bypassed the Onsite payment to pay
off-site (so BL didn’t get the VAT but the seller did).
So there’s both theory and practice to confirm what Stellar said
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| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2021 05:58 | | Subject: | Re: EU Vat e-commerce email | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | In Selling, Abels_Bricks writes:
| | Just got the email from bricklink stating that all Members selling to the EU
must now register individually and supply bricklink the OSS number.
So Lawrence at brickowl was able to deal with this and set it up so brickowl
takes the VAT required from sales and pays it to the relevant tax authorities
(just like Ebay, Etsy, displate, cgtrader) and I`m sure most other online sales
portals. But Bricklink once again has to be a little different.
I really want to rant about this, but what's the point. My trade has been
moving from BL to BO more over the past year anyway.
David.
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So a quick update.
Had an ebay sale from a customer in Europe, Ebay took the tax and added the IOSS
number to the address for download.
Charged me an extra 0.5% fee for the process, which is fine.
BRICKLINK this is what you should be doing, we are sellers on your platform,
just as ebay, brickowl, etsy and all the others.
There is NO reason you should not be doing the same.
David
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For EU sellers, AFAIK Bricklink is correct that they must either A. remain under
the 10K limit or B. get their own individual OSS registration. I wouldn't
know how to do my accounting if Bricklink would be handling EU VAT for me. That
would require solid proof that Bricklink must constantly provide with each transaction.
I'd rather be in charge of VAT myself than to have to rely on Bricklink.
Maybe Bricklink meant to send the email only to EU sellers...
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United Kingdom, Scotland
United Kingdom, England
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Germany, Schleswig-Holstein
Netherlands, Overijssel
Austria, Wien
Sweden, Västra Götaland
Belgium
Lithuania, Panevėžys
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
