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| | | | | Author: | alexwilcox  | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 13:51 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 139 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Hawmoon writes:
No idea on questions to your answers, but I too only wanted one and it was the
only set I’m interested in.
Oh well. Another win for the scalpers I guess.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Hawmoon | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 16:00 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 100 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, alexwilcox writes:
| | No idea on questions to your answers, but I too only wanted one and it was the
only set I’m interested in.
Oh well. Another win for the scalpers I guess.
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I've written to the Lego customer service as well.
I guess that the more will complaint about it, the best result can be achieved...
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| | | | | Author: | bethfromvt | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 13:51 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 147 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| I totally agree. The website was all gummed up when it opened. I came back
2 hours later and the castles are gone. Pretty disappointing. Like you, I only
wanted ONE for ME and not to sell.
In LEGO, Hawmoon writes:
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| | | | | | | Author: | Hawmoon | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 16:01 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, bethfromvt writes:
| | I totally agree. The website was all gummed up when it opened. I came back
2 hours later and the castles are gone. Pretty disappointing. Like you, I only
wanted ONE for ME and not to sell.
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The Castle was gone after 10 minutes...
Mostly to scalpers...
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 18:40 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 117 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Hawmoon writes:
| | In LEGO, bethfromvt writes:
| | I totally agree. The website was all gummed up when it opened. I came back
2 hours later and the castles are gone. Pretty disappointing. Like you, I only
wanted ONE for ME and not to sell.
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The Castle was gone after 10 minutes...
Mostly to scalpers...
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It took about 40 minutes. There are not even 30 of the 5000 for presale on eBay
so how can you assume that it was mostly scalpers?
I get that you are upset, just like I was with the Ulyeses probe, the amount
of demand was underestimated for these sets too.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 18:55 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 116 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | […]
I get that you are upset, just like I was with the Ulyeses probe, the amount
of demand was underestimated for these sets too.
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Seems to be a constant with TLG… but then, we conveniently forget that some sets
don’t sell as well as TLG thought they would and we get them on discount and
are happy.
So it’s a shame when we couldn’t get the set we wanted but a boon when we can
it on sales… and another shame when it’s still at the same price a year after
it’s out and we are waiting for a discount… and… and….
IOW: Why can’t TLG do things to exactly match MY needs?!  
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | MrPetovan | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 20:37 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 105 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| I would argue there's a difference between a production set which run was
undersized compared to a crowdfunded set with an arbitrary quota even before
it started production. I don't mind the 3,000 minimum pre-orders to go into
production, but why the arbitrary limit of 5,000 sets even before it is produced?
Unlike with the Ulysses probe, there isn't any obvious physical constraint
to the limit since the set isn't available yet. On the other hand it's
easy to imagine short-sightedness or even greed or malice.
In LEGO, SylvainLS writes:
| | In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | […]
I get that you are upset, just like I was with the Ulyeses probe, the amount
of demand was underestimated for these sets too.
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Seems to be a constant with TLG… but then, we conveniently forget that some sets
don’t sell as well as TLG thought they would and we get them on discount and
are happy.
So it’s a shame when we couldn’t get the set we wanted but a boon when we can
it on sales… and another shame when it’s still at the same price a year after
it’s out and we are waiting for a discount… and… and….
IOW: Why can’t TLG do things to exactly match MY needs?!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 20:46 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 120 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| Every limit would be arbitrary, maybe it is a matter of resources? Judging from
the last run, these sets take a lot of time and personnel to assemble. Even
if the number was 10k, people would still be upset.
I'm glad you don't mind the 3k limit to go into production, at least
that meets your needs. I think it should have been 1355, that seems like a number
I like and suits me better.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 21:07 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | Every limit would be arbitrary, maybe it is a matter of resources? Judging from
the last run, these sets take a lot of time and personnel to assemble. Even
if the number was 10k, people would still be upset.
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I really am surprised that Castle in the Forest sold out as quickly as it did.
My guess is that Lego wasn't expecting it either.
I have to think that Lego isn't going to be assembling the sets by hand like
BrickLink did 2 years ago, but I could be wrong.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 22:40 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| |
I really am surprised that Castle in the Forest sold out as quickly as it did.
My guess is that Lego wasn't expecting it either.
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So was I, I planned on dedicating an hour of my time to make sure I got one at
11, but it took me until 11:14 to buy and by then it was already 1/2 way to 3k.
| | I have to think that Lego isn't going to be assembling the sets by hand like
BrickLink did 2 years ago, but I could be wrong.
|
So hard to know what the process is for Lego, it may be too cost prohibitive
to program the machines to get and pack the correct parts. Then again it might
be nothing for them, certainly a really interesting process I wouldn't mind
learning about. If they are giving themselves 5 months to fulfil orders it who
knows what the process is, and what kind of schedule they have for upcoming sets.
I know they can't keep up with some current sets still!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 22:53 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 103 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| |
I really am surprised that Castle in the Forest sold out as quickly as it did.
My guess is that Lego wasn't expecting it either.
|
So was I, I planned on dedicating an hour of my time to make sure I got one at
11, but it took me until 11:14 to buy and by then it was already 1/2 way to 3k.
| | I have to think that Lego isn't going to be assembling the sets by hand like
BrickLink did 2 years ago, but I could be wrong.
|
So hard to know what the process is for Lego, it may be too cost prohibitive
to program the machines to get and pack the correct parts. Then again it might
be nothing for them, certainly a really interesting process I wouldn't mind
learning about. If they are giving themselves 5 months to fulfil orders it who
knows what the process is, and what kind of schedule they have for upcoming sets.
I know they can't keep up with some current sets still!
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I've always wondered how LEGO makes sets. I used to sell custom sets and
the process of making them by hand is tedious; I am sure that LEGO has a better
(i.e., automated) way. Perhaps someone here with insider knowledge can share
(or perhaps they are not allowed?)
I also wonder how Pick-A-Brick and Bricks & Pieces work. Does LEGO produce the
parts to order, or do they maintain a stockpile? I usually buy parts in large
quantities, but there is no minimum average lot value, so what would happen if
I ordered one of everything?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 08:23 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, wildchicken13 writes:
| | I've always wondered how LEGO makes sets. I used to sell custom sets and
the process of making them by hand is tedious; I am sure that LEGO has a better
(i.e., automated) way. Perhaps someone here with insider knowledge can share
(or perhaps they are not allowed?)
|
There is definitely automation involved. In fact I am fairly certain that a lot
of extra pieces in sets are due to the fact that the machine that grabs the pieces
has a minimum number it can grab at a time, and for many smaller parts this number
is greater than one. For example, have you noticed that there are never fewer
than 3 1x1 round plates of a given color in a set, regardless of how many are
used in building?
The days of assembling sets by hand are long gone now.
| | I also wonder how Pick-A-Brick and Bricks & Pieces work. Does LEGO produce the
parts to order, or do they maintain a stockpile?
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My guess is that they have a stockpile and it's mostly if not completely
made up of parts that were made for sets but not used for one reason or another
- like maybe they needed 1,000,000 for a given run of a set but producing 1,500,000
was more cost-effective (these numbers are made up).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 08:46 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
There is definitely automation involved. In fact I am fairly certain that a lot
of extra pieces in sets are due to the fact that the machine that grabs the pieces
has a minimum number it can grab at a time, and for many smaller parts this number
is greater than one.
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It’s done by weight.
And the machines are more or less precise in different factories.
For the older machines, the quantity is increased so that if it misses one, you
still get what’s needed (otherwise you get Extras).
But the new machines can weihgt “by 2”: if the bag needs one 1x1 round plate,
you get two, if it needs two, you also get two, 3 → 4, 4 → 4, etc.
Fewer Extras for us 
Also, if TLG gets “enough” complaints for a missing part in a set, they increase
the quantity in the next production runs.
| | For example, have you noticed that there are never fewer
than 3 1x1 round plates of a given color in a set, regardless of how many are
used in building?
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Nope, 2 is the minimum. I wish it were three, because “Three shalt be the number
thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shalt be three. Four shalt
thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three.
Five is right out.” 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | hpoort | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 11:01 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 88 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, wildchicken13 writes:
| | I've always wondered how LEGO makes sets. I used to sell custom sets and
the process of making them by hand is tedious; I am sure that LEGO has a better
(i.e., automated) way. Perhaps someone here with insider knowledge can share
(or perhaps they are not allowed?)
I also wonder how Pick-A-Brick and Bricks & Pieces work. Does LEGO produce the
parts to order, or do they maintain a stockpile? I usually buy parts in large
quantities, but there is no minimum average lot value, so what would happen if
I ordered one of everything?
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You can find out by deduction by browsing sources like YouTube, seeing how things
are packed and reading around on sites like NewElementary (or Bricklink). There
is a video where Russell proudly gives a tour around the Bricklink facility while
they where packing the previous run of sets. There are several videos of How
It's Made - LEGO or factory tours.
Brick & Pieces: those are handpicked (stated in their help section). There are
limits to lot size (I believe: 200 pc) and number of lots (100 or 200?)
Pick-A-Brick: appears to be mostly automated: that's why there is a limited
selection of parts, that are likely automatically counted with a series of counting
carrousels. Judging by my experiences with no more than a few PaB orders, I'd
say they are partly manually packed (smaller or bigger size bag). I think they
will still use the weight checking to assure completeness.
Sets: almost completely automated. For a small set (one bag): a carousel with
bins of each of the parts used in this set. The storage facility is fully automated
(see YouTube documentary) so it is guaranteed the proper parts are transported
from the mega warehouse to the exact bin on the carousel. The carousel counts
out the exact amount of parts designed for this set. Parts are collected in a
bin, automatically wrapped in a bag, checked by weight and transported to the
next stage in packaging. If there is a weight mismatch, parts are ejected into
a manual check line.
The carousel process is repeated for as many bags as are needed to complete the
set. If those are many, then small bags are simply treated as if they were one
big part in one of the bins of the next carousel.
Since weight checking is accurate but still has some tolerances, and because
small parts then to get lost easily, LEGO designs the set content to have 1 extra
of those in each bag. There is an entire department at TLG that just does this:
designing how the parts are distributed over the bags for the ultimate building
experience, with the best reliability and the least damage of the parts.
The only manual action I have seen in those documentaries was the occasional
re-counting of ejected bags and sometimes the final packing of the set boxes
in wholesale boxes.
The warehouse is fully automated: huge, tens of meters high, hundreds across,
not accessible by humans at all. Barcoded or chipped transport containers
moved around by self driving robots. Parts are continuously produced to refill
the warehouse. Planning will be based upon capacity (some 1.500 molding machines),
expected or planned demand (which sets, how many of those, how many parts in
each) et cetera. Entire departments of TLG are dedicated to such planning (or
likely: to develop the software to do this planning automatically). They know
not to produce more than will sell, to limit the number of different shapes and
colors they keep in current stock as they have learned the hard way not to overdo
it regarding variety. Producing with shortage ('limited edition', 'soon
out of stock' or simply 'out of stock' in mind seems part of their
business model. Makes sense from a commercial standpoint.
Hope this helps releave some of your wondering - and makes you wonder even more
about the wonderful product the LEGO System really is.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 03:03 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 103 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| |
I really am surprised that Castle in the Forest sold out as quickly as it did.
My guess is that Lego wasn't expecting it either.
|
So was I, I planned on dedicating an hour of my time to make sure I got one at
11, but it took me until 11:14 to buy and by then it was already 1/2 way to 3k.
| | I have to think that Lego isn't going to be assembling the sets by hand like
BrickLink did 2 years ago, but I could be wrong.
|
So hard to know what the process is for Lego, it may be too cost prohibitive
to program the machines to get and pack the correct parts. Then again it might
be nothing for them, certainly a really interesting process I wouldn't mind
learning about. If they are giving themselves 5 months to fulfil orders it who
knows what the process is, and what kind of schedule they have for upcoming sets.
I know they can't keep up with some current sets still!
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Check this: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1276997
Here Tanja says to Martin that Lego will pack some of the parts of the sets.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 12:23 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Stellar writes:
Wow, thanks for this. There was a lot of great info here. I would suggest to
anyone that they take a listen as well.
Tanja brings up the 5k number and how it may seems low but the calculations used
some information from the Afol designer program.
I remember that Bricklink had to liquidate some sets at the end due to having
too many, maybe they wanted to make sure that didn't happen again, so 5k
on the more popular sets would be low but 5k on the last set to get funded might
be too many. The good thig is that Lego isn't stupid, as they see the response
from this they will no doubt change in the future, I don't think they want
to make people mad or leave money on the table.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 12:58 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | […]
Tanja brings up the 5k number and how it may seems low but the calculations used
some information from the Afol designer program.
|
Okay, so they got surprised that a program that was:
— not the first one,
— totally backed up and advertized by TLG, the biggest brand on Earth,
— with projects already known to AFOLs through LEGO Ideas,
was way more than twice successful than a program that was:
— a total unknown,
— from a, let’s be honest, not so widely known / trusted entity,
— hampered by “shipped from the US” by said company with no history of ever having
shipped anything, with added import VAT and other fees.
| | […]
The good thig is that Lego isn't stupid, as they see the response
from this they will no doubt change in the future, I don't think they want
to make people mad or leave money on the table.
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Okay… too bad it happend on a Thursday, in July… because the crickets are all
we are hearing now
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 14:02 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, SylvainLS writes:
| | In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | […]
Tanja brings up the 5k number and how it may seems low but the calculations used
some information from the Afol designer program.
|
Okay, so they got surprised that a program that was:
— not the first one,
— totally backed up and advertized by TLG, the biggest brand on Earth,
— with projects already known to AFOLs through LEGO Ideas,
was way more than twice successful than a program that was:
— a total unknown,
— from a, let’s be honest, not so widely known / trusted entity,
— hampered by “shipped from the US” by said company with no history of ever having
shipped anything, with added import VAT and other fees.
| | […]
The good thig is that Lego isn't stupid, as they see the response
from this they will no doubt change in the future, I don't think they want
to make people mad or leave money on the table.
|
Okay… too bad it happend on a Thursday, in July… because the crickets are all
we are hearing now
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There is a lot of room between the length of time it took for the BL AFOL sets
to sell out and the 40 minutes it took the Castle in the Forest to sell out yesterday.
Yes, the variables were different, but ... 40 minutes? I can't imagine that
was expected.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 14:33 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
There is a lot of room between the length of time it took for the BL AFOL sets
to sell out and the 40 minutes it took the Castle in the Forest to sell out yesterday.
Yes, the variables were different, but ... 40 minutes? I can't imagine that
was expected.
|
Indeed not. They apparently only expected double the ADP backers / half the
Ideas clickers.
The 3,000 minimum is understandable. And I guess they have lots of reasons for
setting a max (parts availability, with other sets to produce, relatively short
time to produce / manage supply, etc.).
Still, if the biggest toy seller in the world can’t predict anything, repeatedly….
If you add the no-more-exclusives fiasco (
AFOLs: Stop making exclusives! We all want to buy everything!
TLG: Okay, we hear you! No more regional exclusives, pinky swear! … BTW, here
are new sets exclusive to East Asia, and here’s another one for the SDCC, and,
and, and…. )
and other very limited limited editions, it’s like TLG only wants to sell (expensive)
collectibles, not toys, and only to scalpers.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 16:56 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, SylvainLS writes:
| | In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
There is a lot of room between the length of time it took for the BL AFOL sets
to sell out and the 40 minutes it took the Castle in the Forest to sell out yesterday.
Yes, the variables were different, but ... 40 minutes? I can't imagine that
was expected.
|
Indeed not. They apparently only expected double the ADP backers / half the
Ideas clickers.
The 3,000 minimum is understandable. And I guess they have lots of reasons for
setting a max (parts availability, with other sets to produce, relatively short
time to produce / manage supply, etc.).
Still, if the biggest toy seller in the world can’t predict anything, repeatedly….
If you add the no-more-exclusives fiasco (
AFOLs: Stop making exclusives! We all want to buy everything!
TLG: Okay, we hear you! No more regional exclusives, pinky swear! … BTW, here
are new sets exclusive to East Asia, and here’s another one for the SDCC, and,
and, and…. )
and other very limited limited editions, it’s like TLG only wants to sell (expensive)
collectibles, not toys, and only to scalpers.
|
Pure speculation here, but I think the artificial scarcity motivates people to
buy that might not otherwise. I can always put off buying a regular LEGO set
knowing that it will probably be available for a few years, but the same is not
true of a designer program set. Of course, LEGO could probably sell more than
5,000 of each if they made them regular sets, but it would probably take more
than a day.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Tracyd | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 17:00 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In LEGO, SylvainLS writes:
| | In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
There is a lot of room between the length of time it took for the BL AFOL sets
to sell out and the 40 minutes it took the Castle in the Forest to sell out yesterday.
Yes, the variables were different, but ... 40 minutes? I can't imagine that
was expected.
|
Indeed not. They apparently only expected double the ADP backers / half the
Ideas clickers.
The 3,000 minimum is understandable. And I guess they have lots of reasons for
setting a max (parts availability, with other sets to produce, relatively short
time to produce / manage supply, etc.).
Still, if the biggest toy seller in the world can’t predict anything, repeatedly….
If you add the no-more-exclusives fiasco (
AFOLs: Stop making exclusives! We all want to buy everything!
TLG: Okay, we hear you! No more regional exclusives, pinky swear! … BTW, here
are new sets exclusive to East Asia, and here’s another one for the SDCC, and,
and, and…. )
and other very limited limited editions, it’s like TLG only wants to sell (expensive)
collectibles, not toys, and only to scalpers.
|
Pure speculation here, but I think the artificial scarcity motivates people to
buy that might not otherwise. I can always put off buying a regular LEGO set
knowing that it will probably be available for a few years, but the same is not
true of a designer program set. Of course, LEGO could probably sell more than
5,000 of each if they made them regular sets, but it would probably take more
than a day.
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Yeah might take 2 days at this rate.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | LordSkylark | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2021 00:53 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In LEGO, SylvainLS writes:
| | In LEGO, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
There is a lot of room between the length of time it took for the BL AFOL sets
to sell out and the 40 minutes it took the Castle in the Forest to sell out yesterday.
Yes, the variables were different, but ... 40 minutes? I can't imagine that
was expected.
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Indeed not. They apparently only expected double the ADP backers / half the
Ideas clickers.
The 3,000 minimum is understandable. And I guess they have lots of reasons for
setting a max (parts availability, with other sets to produce, relatively short
time to produce / manage supply, etc.).
Still, if the biggest toy seller in the world can’t predict anything, repeatedly….
If you add the no-more-exclusives fiasco (
AFOLs: Stop making exclusives! We all want to buy everything!
TLG: Okay, we hear you! No more regional exclusives, pinky swear! … BTW, here
are new sets exclusive to East Asia, and here’s another one for the SDCC, and,
and, and…. )
and other very limited limited editions, it’s like TLG only wants to sell (expensive)
collectibles, not toys, and only to scalpers.
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Pure speculation here, but I think the artificial scarcity motivates people to
buy that might not otherwise. I can always put off buying a regular LEGO set
knowing that it will probably be available for a few years, but the same is not
true of a designer program set. Of course, LEGO could probably sell more than
5,000 of each if they made them regular sets, but it would probably take more
than a day.
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Maybe I don't understand what's going on (and there's probably not
a sure way to do so)... But, if I were a company, I would think the best method
would be to make the max unlimited and then close the number AFTER the 30 days
(or whatever) time expired. I would want to maximize my profits. In fact, the
more sets that are produced at any factory at one time, the less the cost for
each set it. Because the biggest time/cost factor is setting up the production
run itself for the first time.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2021 08:09 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, LordSkylark writes:
| | […]
Maybe I don't understand what's going on (and there's probably not
a sure way to do so)... But, if I were a company, I would think the best method
would be to make the max unlimited and then close the number AFTER the 30 days
(or whatever) time expired. I would want to maximize my profits. In fact, the
more sets that are produced at any factory at one time, the less the cost for
each set it. Because the biggest time/cost factor is setting up the production
run itself for the first time.
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It’s not so simple for LEGO: it’s not about setting an independent production
run, it’s about setting one production run amongst many other production runs,
all sharing (or not) base elements that are also production runs on their own.
It’s not like, say, a bottle maker who’d want to make a new kind of bottle: “just”
prepare the new mould, plan for the time you’ll use the machines or set a new
machine, plan for the raw material, et voilà.
It’s hundreds of sets made of around 10,000 parts (different shape & colour),
so hundreds of meta-bottles made of 10,000 bottles made from the raw material.
That being said, 5,000 was too low.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 13:41 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Actually we did not have too many in ADP. We produced the exact amount needed.
But we did have a short window of B2B sales at the end where we sold them at
the wholesale level.
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Ah, I assumed it was too many as I don't remember this happening with the
castle set that sold out. But of course I wasn't really paying that much
attention then as most of those sets weren't ones I was looking for.
Trying to understand how if you made exactly how many sets were pre-ordered how
did you have more sets to sell B2B? Or are you saying you made exactly how
many Bricklink wanted to make, not how many were pre-ordered, which sounds a
lot like you had extra? Could there have been that many cancellations?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 16:21 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 127 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
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Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
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Admin |
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| BrickLink Administrator |
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| In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | In LEGO, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Actually we did not have too many in ADP. We produced the exact amount needed.
But we did have a short window of B2B sales at the end where we sold them at
the wholesale level.
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Ah, I assumed it was too many as I don't remember this happening with the
castle set that sold out. But of course I wasn't really paying that much
attention then as most of those sets weren't ones I was looking for.
Trying to understand how if you made exactly how many sets were pre-ordered how
did you have more sets to sell B2B? Or are you saying you made exactly how
many Bricklink wanted to make, not how many were pre-ordered, which sounds a
lot like you had extra? Could there have been that many cancellations?
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We had two hard limits on production, the first being the parts themselves (we
had enough for 2500 sets each) and the second being the instructions (which we
overpurchased in relation to anticipated demand). During the last week of the
sales period we listed what we had up to the hard limits and resellers decided
to buy or not. Based on what they bought, we changed our production schedule
to accommodate and delivered the product in 2-3 months.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 23:30 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Admin_Russell writes:
| | We had two hard limits on production, the first being the parts themselves (we
had enough for 2500 sets each) and the second being the instructions (which we
overpurchased in relation to anticipated demand). During the last week of the
sales period we listed what we had up to the hard limits and resellers decided
to buy or not. Based on what they bought, we changed our production schedule
to accommodate and delivered the product in 2-3 months.
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Thanks for the info Russell, the perspective looking from the outside in was
different than what was going on.
I really appreciated the beyond the brick that had you in it in explaining some
of the Afol designer program, then the other one with the process showing how
the sets were packaged. I assume we wot be getting any coverage like that this
time, would have been great to see the new process.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | MrPetovan | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 08:48 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 101 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| Unlike regular sets which popularity must be guessed in advance, crowdfunding
allows you to know exactly how many units people are ready to put money down
for since they actually do. From there you have all the time you need to adjust
resources. If I remember correctly the 5,000 sets limit was decided even before
the program was announced since it was part of the initial communication. I seem
to remember some people complaining about it even then, for good reasons.
In LEGO, randyipp writes:
| | Every limit would be arbitrary, maybe it is a matter of resources? Judging from
the last run, these sets take a lot of time and personnel to assemble. Even
if the number was 10k, people would still be upset.
I'm glad you don't mind the 3k limit to go into production, at least
that meets your needs. I think it should have been 1355, that seems like a number
I like and suits me better.
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| | | | | Author: | pitz8008 | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 13:58 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 119 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Hawmoon writes:
Maybe this should be a hint to Lego to bring back the castle line. And the pirate
line too.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Hawmoon | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 16:02 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, pitz8008 writes:
| |
Maybe this should be a hint to Lego to bring back the castle line. And the pirate
line too.
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They should have enough hints now, considering how many 10k were castle related
in the last round.
Or the poll they did months ago
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| | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 14:00 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 135 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Hawmoon writes:
I want to see if all the ones who bought it will get it, as for now 5510 castles
have been sold and 5134 ships...
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| | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 14:22 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 134 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| I thought it was cool, but I didn't want to spend that much for one set at
this moment, so I went for a smaller one. I'm hoping that a real customer
and not a scalper got "my" copy. Perhaps a better course of action would've
been to buy five (since I was early enough), then offer to those who missed out
(and that I knew weren't scalpers) to sell it to them for the same price
if they paid for the shipping. Then at least I would know they would get good
homes. 
Though part of the fault here is the rich and foolish people willing to buy from
these scalpers. If everyone refused to pay those outrageous prices, they'd
learn it wouldn't be worth it. But most likely that won't be the case
unfortunately.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Hawmoon | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2021 16:04 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 112 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, firestar246 writes:
| | I thought it was cool, but I didn't want to spend that much for one set at
this moment, so I went for a smaller one. I'm hoping that a real customer
and not a scalper got "my" copy. Perhaps a better course of action would've
been to buy five (since I was early enough), then offer to those who missed out
(and that I knew weren't scalpers) to sell it to them for the same price
if they paid for the shipping. Then at least I would know they would get good
homes.
Though part of the fault here is the rich and foolish people willing to buy from
these scalpers. If everyone refused to pay those outrageous prices, they'd
learn it wouldn't be worth it. But most likely that won't be the case
unfortunately.
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Totally agree, I won't buy from scalpers.
Probably I'll "study" and once the instructions will be available, I'll
sort the building here, without the minifigures, for a cheaper price.
The point is: doesn't Lego want to get more money and make more customers
happy?
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| | | | | Author: | bernsa | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2021 09:43 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 119 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In LEGO, Hawmoon writes:
I mean, I've pretty much exited the hobby over the way TLG conducts business.
I came back in to see how this new round of crowdfunding would play out (I was
happy with the previous iteration - pre TLG's purchase of BL), and disappointed
to see it's gone exactly the way I sort of predicted. TLG honestly, I feel,
just doesn't want to reward faithful customers and is openly hostile to collectors,
and does nothing but seem to encourage the concept of scalping with forced scarcity
and hype. I've stopped rewarding TLG with my business... completely. I have
enough LEGO for my lifetime, and I don't think I ever need to buy another
set again.
TLG does not even comprehend crowdfunding. I have backed hundreds of tabletop
games on crowd funding site(s) HEY- That's because I stopped buying TLG's
products. Rarely are capacities capped in true crowdfunding. 99% of the time,
they want the widest participation rate they can get-- they SCALE UP supply
to meet the demand. If TLG tried to pull these types of shenanigans on a dedicated
crowdfunding site, they'd be brutally beat-down by backers off the platform.
They are not really listening to their customers and demand, but are always
coming at things from supply side control. Really upsetting that a company repeatedly
will not satisfy demand (e.g. scale up operations - invest in infrastructure)
to meet the demand, but continues to celebrate restricted supply as if it were
a good thing, which of course creates scalping (e.g. inflated pricing and restricted
availability) in and of itself. They've been sowing the seeds of scalping
for years, and by all appearances, really don't seem to think it's a
problem by failing to recognize it is a supply problem, not a demand problem.
Let's not even discuss the other benefit of crowdfunding, which is that
the backers are stakeholders in the product. They voice their opinions, recommendations,
concerns etc... I see none of that in this platform.
If you compare TLG's business to a large tabletop game business (I don't
want to break rules and name one - but one that routinely puts out miniatures
with popular IP) - the TTG industry will satisfy EVERY customer on the crowdfunding
site, even accepting late pledges. TLG, just doesn't care if everyone who
wants one of their products gets it... repeatedly... that's just business...
but hey, it's just business, I want nothing to do with buying TLG's products
anymore when that seems to be the outward appearance of their product availability
strategy.
I'm waiting for the day when TLG turns it around, and lets open economics
(open supply and open pricing - none of this fixed-pricing garbage) dictate their
business model. I might die before that happens, but que sera, sera. No skin
off my back if I never buy another TLG set again.
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| | | | | Author: | Arrvilohr | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2021 12:40 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 202 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| Nothing much to add, besides that I wanted also one and didn't have the chance
to get one, because it was sold out in no time... Hope they will make it available
again...!
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| | | | | | | Author: | RuiBraga | | Posted: | Jul 8, 2021 16:54 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In Designer Program, Arrvilohr writes:
| | Nothing much to add, besides that I wanted also one and didn't have the chance
to get one, because it was sold out in no time... Hope they will make it available
again...!
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We are all on the same page I guess...
No Castle...
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| | | | | | | Author: | Schoolboy | | Posted: | Jul 28, 2021 23:34 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| In Designer Program, Arrvilohr writes:
| | Nothing much to add, besides that I wanted also one and didn't have the chance
to get one, because it was sold out in no time... Hope they will make it available
again...!
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Yeah, this is tough. I have been upvoting this set everywhere I could find it;
but missed the window to pre-order here. I hope they reconsider opening it up
again sometime in the future. Some spectacular castle set designs …
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2021 19:35 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 105 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| I don't think they should make more, as it was advertised as a limited run
of 5000.
However, releasing the instructions along with a xml wants list file with a pointer
to buy the parts on bricklink would be good. Good for people that want to build
it. Good for BL sellers.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Pam_Shaver | | Posted: | Jul 4, 2021 10:03 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| I agree. If it was advertised as a limited run of 5,000 then they should not
make more. Instead they should learn for future production to advertise the
quantities differently. Maybe advertise it as first edition run then second
edition run, etc.
I would like the printed instructions so the sets can be given as gifts and not
worry about whether the receiver will be able to build it. Fifty years from
now who knows what kind of technology the world will have and whether the current
apps will be accessible.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 4, 2021 11:00 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| | |
I would like the printed instructions so the sets can be given as gifts and not
worry about whether the receiver will be able to build it. Fifty years from
now who knows what kind of technology the world will have and whether the current
apps will be accessible.
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Even if you purchase the set in the first round, they aren't doing printed
instructions. You have to use an app - presumably so people don't distribute
a pdf or similar if they released them in that format.
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| | | | | Author: | Cleefuzz | | Posted: | Jul 4, 2021 14:32 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 88 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| I’ve played with Lego since I was a kid. Growing up I had a few Castle, Western
and Pirates sets that I really enjoyed. A few years ago I came in to the hobby
again through a friend, and not long after that found out about the Lego Ideas
platform. I’ve supported a lot of sets, more or less from the historic themes
that I myself enjoy. But after the review phases I’m repeatedly disappointed
since even though many fans have voted for great sets, like from the Castle theme,
Lego most often disregard those or choose to produce the sets that I’m personally
not interested in. There are some exceptions, like the Medieval Blacksmith and
The Pirates of Barracuda Bay which are some of the best sets ever produced. Through
the years I’ve given up hope on the Lego Ideas platform and just focus my attention
elsewhere, as to not get let down again and again.
When the Bricklink Designer Program was announced I thought “Finally!” and saw
this as the redemption for all of us who thinks Lego produces the wrong sets
on the Ideas platform. I started following the updates on the Castle in the Forest
through the program from Day 1. Reading povoqs information regarding changes
to the build, available parts and how the minifigs were chosen. Not a single
time did I get the notion that the sets were going to sell out fast. I was more
under the conviction that I had to put in my preorder relatively early to ensure
that this set was chosen for production before the other sets. I even went through
the trouble to order brown shields from Lego’s Bricks & Pieces for the Forestmen
shield stickers in the set. It feels a little silly right now.
With all the errors of preordering the set I can’t but feel left out when I realised
that I would not get the chance to build this great set without trying my hand
on buying it for an inflated price on the aftermarket. I think I just sat down
spacing into nothingness for half an hour contemplating on what had just occurred.
I could of course have tried harder to ensure my chances of getting a set by
not using my phone, and instead use a more stable internet connection, but as
many others have pointed out, that would most likely just have projected my situation
on another poor fella in the end.
My assumption on the Bricklink Designer program was that it focused on the user
fan base and giving the Lego fans interesting builds and not to produce premium
items for collectors and scalpers to have sitting on their shelves or make money
on. At least in regards to the policy of reselling Lego
Items on Bricklink etc. My hope is that the production limit is scrapped or increased,
since these sets are products which do not yet exist and does not have a set
aftermarket price yet. I’m eager to hear what Bricklink brings to the table in
the coming days, but I don’t dare getting my hopes up. I think a little ranting
is validated in regards to how this crowdfunding went.
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 4, 2021 15:17 | | Subject: | Re: Castle In The Forest | | Viewed: | 115 times | | Topic: | Designer Program | |
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| . Not a single time did I get the notion that the sets were going to sell out
fast.
Here is a tip- if it is lego and limited edition, it will sell out fast.
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United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Netherlands, Groningen
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Belgium, Oost-Vlaanderen
Portugal
Canada, Ontario
Sweden, Gotland