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| | | Author: | Starship  | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 09:08 | | Subject: | USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 167 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| Sellers,
I keep running into issues with buyers where USPS packages are being delayed
or lost in transit, and it seems to be happening with increasing regularity these
days.
I don't mind buyer contacting me and letting me know there is an issue, but
it seems from these emails that there is implied assertion that I am ultimately
responsible for the delivery of the package by USPS.
I completely understand why a buyer would be upset and frustrated, I would be
too, but I am really struggling with the notion that as a seller I am supposed
to be acting a a guarantor for USPS. My thought is that so as long as there
is an initial scan by USPS (and these days I wait in line to ensure that it is
scanned by clerk), my responsibility is complete. I don't mind offering
suggestions or advice for lost packages after that. But as badly as I feel
about any lost package, I also don't feel like I need to step in and make
it right with refunds especially when a package is still in the USPS system.
I am curious to hear about other sellers' thoughts on this, and whether anyone
has a recommendation for a store policy on USPS delivery. I am contemplating
saying something along the line that "buyers have the option to purchase insurance
for any items purchased, but our store will not take responsibility for delivery
of an item once it has been tendered to USPS."
Appreciate other thoughts on this
Starship Brick
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| | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 09:12 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| If you accept PayPal, at least, your responsibility does not end until the buyer
receives the package and is satisfied with it. Probably most credit card companies
see things the same way.
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| | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 09:15 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| Forgot to add: So you can put whatever you like in your store policy, but ultimately
PayPal, etc., will probably side with the buyer in the event of a dispute, and
you will be forced to refund and be assessed a dispute fee.
In Shipping, peregrinator writes:
| | If you accept PayPal, at least, your responsibility does not end until the buyer
receives the package and is satisfied with it. Probably most credit card companies
see things the same way.
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| | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 09:18 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| The seller's responsibility is ultimately only complete once the package
reaches the buyer. This isn't my opinion, but the general rule. I'm sure
you've ordered from Amazon or other big companies before and the package
never arrived. The company will always reship the item or refund; it's no
different for us as BL sellers.
Insurance is for the seller's protection, not the buyer's.
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| | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 09:40 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| You can say whatever you want in your terms but the unfortunate side of selling
is that sometimes packages go missing, and as the seller it ultimately falls
on you. No one wants a lost package but it happens. As a seller I write off
1-3 packages a year with the understanding that anything I ship I can afford
to lose, or else I buy insurance for it.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Starship | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 09:44 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| Good to know this stuff -- I am glad that I asked, didn't know about
the Paypal policies.
Thanks for the assistance !!
In Shipping, randyipp writes:
| | You can say whatever you want in your terms but the unfortunate side of selling
is that sometimes packages go missing, and as the seller it ultimately falls
on you. No one wants a lost package but it happens. As a seller I write off
1-3 packages a year with the understanding that anything I ship I can afford
to lose, or else I buy insurance for it.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 09:57 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Good to know this stuff -- I am glad that I asked, didn't know about
the Paypal policies.
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You mean you registered with PayPal and never read the terms?
Then I have bad news for you: you owe them your firstborn (which is about what
hiring a lawyer to explain you the rules would have cost you, so it’s pretty
fair).
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SecondChildhood | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 10:27 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 11:04 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, SecondChildhood writes:
| | In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Good to know this stuff -- I am glad that I asked, didn't know about
the Paypal policies.
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You mean you registered with PayPal and never read the terms?
Then I have bad news for you: you owe them your firstborn (which is about what
hiring a lawyer to explain you the rules would have cost you, so it’s pretty
fair).
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Is sarcasm really called for here? Especially from a Discussions Moderator?
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Is it really a big deal? I don't see any problem; SylvainLS is just making
fun of Paypal's terms...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 11:08 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, SecondChildhood writes:
| | In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Good to know this stuff -- I am glad that I asked, didn't know about
the Paypal policies.
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You mean you registered with PayPal and never read the terms?
Then I have bad news for you: you owe them your firstborn (which is about what
hiring a lawyer to explain you the rules would have cost you, so it’s pretty
fair).
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Is sarcasm really called for here? Especially from a Discussions Moderator?
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It’s not “Nelson Muntz’s ha-ha!” sarcasm, it’s a “why am I not surprised” remark,
accompanied with a “beware, that could bite you” joke.
You’ll note I’m also implying few read terms (PayPal’s or anyone else’s) and
fewer understand them.
That being said, when one uses a service professionally or even only intensively,
one is supposed to make the necessary efforts to understand what one is signing
for.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SecondChildhood | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 11:14 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 11:33 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, SecondChildhood writes:
| | No matter what kind of sarcasm, it's uncalled for, in my opinion. A person
asked an earnest question (and received earnest answers). No need to chime in.
Just my two cents. Take it or leave it, it doesn't matter at all.
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Wow, lighten up. If everyone responded with sarcasm and he didn't get any
serious answers, that's one thing. But by saying "Thanks for the assistance!"
he's implying that he got the answers he needed/was looking for. At this
point, I see no issue whatsoever with some levity and humor. It's what keeps
the forums an enjoyable place.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Starship | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 12:20 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| So actually, I am reading the Paypal terms and service, Section 4.1, Items Not
Received:
PayPal Buyer Protection for items that have not been shipped does not cover items
lost in transit. If the seller can provide within the required time frame valid
proof of shipment (as described in more detail in the PayPal Seller Protection
Policy), or a respective equivalent proving shipment and/or receipt as agreed
between PayPal and the seller, PayPal will refuse to grant PayPal Buyer Protection.
The second sentence seems to state that if I can show that it the item was sent
under the Paypal Seller Protection Policy , then I am covered here, and the Buyer
can't make a claim for items lost by the USPS in transit. Also the Paypal
Seller Protection Policy uses the term "or" when referring to items shipped and
items received, creating two different conditions. If a seller can establish
either of those conditions they are not liable for a lost parcel.
In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, SecondChildhood writes:
| | In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Good to know this stuff -- I am glad that I asked, didn't know about
the Paypal policies.
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You mean you registered with PayPal and never read the terms?
Then I have bad news for you: you owe them your firstborn (which is about what
hiring a lawyer to explain you the rules would have cost you, so it’s pretty
fair).
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Is sarcasm really called for here? Especially from a Discussions Moderator?
|
It’s not “Nelson Muntz’s ha-ha!” sarcasm, it’s a “why am I not surprised” remark,
accompanied with a “beware, that could bite you” joke.
You’ll note I’m also implying few read terms (PayPal’s or anyone else’s) and
fewer understand them.
That being said, when one uses a service professionally or even only intensively,
one is supposed to make the necessary efforts to understand what one is signing
for.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 13:36 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| Unfortunately, that not how it works.
Proof of shipment - you have tracking for the package. If you don't have
tracking you automatically lose a claim against you because you cannot provide
proof of shipping.
Proof of delivery - if you have proof of shipment (tracking) then status has
to show delivered. Not sure how much time PayPal allows for the tracking to show
delivered.
In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | So actually, I am reading the Paypal terms and service, Section 4.1, Items Not
Received:
PayPal Buyer Protection for items that have not been shipped does not cover items
lost in transit. If the seller can provide within the required time frame valid
proof of shipment (as described in more detail in the PayPal Seller Protection
Policy), or a respective equivalent proving shipment and/or receipt as agreed
between PayPal and the seller, PayPal will refuse to grant PayPal Buyer Protection.
The second sentence seems to state that if I can show that it the item was sent
under the Paypal Seller Protection Policy , then I am covered here, and the Buyer
can't make a claim for items lost by the USPS in transit. Also the Paypal
Seller Protection Policy uses the term "or" when referring to items shipped and
items received, creating two different conditions. If a seller can establish
either of those conditions they are not liable for a lost parcel.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 13:44 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, zorbanj writes:
| | Unfortunately, that not how it works.
Proof of shipment - you have tracking for the package. If you don't have
tracking you automatically lose a claim against you because you cannot provide
proof of shipping.
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Yes. They don’t say “tracking” for the proof of shipment but they want an electronic
/ web-accessible proof with the recipient’s address on it. And you only have
that with tracking.
| | Proof of delivery - if you have proof of shipment (tracking) then status has
to show delivered. Not sure how much time PayPal allows for the tracking to show
delivered.
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Yep, they are devious. So keep an eye on your firstborn 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jun 17, 2021 03:28 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, zorbanj writes:
| | Unfortunately, that not how it works.
Proof of shipment - you have tracking for the package. If you don't have
tracking you automatically lose a claim against you because you cannot provide
proof of shipping.
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Yes. They don’t say “tracking” for the proof of shipment but they want an electronic
/ web-accessible proof with the recipient’s address on it. And you only have
that with tracking.
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Well, most times that info doesn't exists publicly, I as the contractor of
the tracking can see the full info, but the tracking link usually just shows
the city it goes to.
| |
| | Proof of delivery - if you have proof of shipment (tracking) then status has
to show delivered. Not sure how much time PayPal allows for the tracking to show
delivered.
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Yep, they are devious. So keep an eye on your firstborn
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 10:50 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Sellers,
I keep running into issues with buyers where USPS packages are being delayed
or lost in transit, and it seems to be happening with increasing regularity these
days.
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Domestic packages or international ?
Most of my domestic packages are moving along right now. I do not ship international,
so someone else will have to speak to those.
One suggestion is that you absolutely need to get scans when you hand it over.
Once USPS scans it, then it is documented as being in their possession, and various
delivery metrics begin to run. If you just leave them on the counter, then exit
the post office, it may. or may not, get scanned the same day.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 11:25 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, cosmicray writes:
| | In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Sellers,
I keep running into issues with buyers where USPS packages are being delayed
or lost in transit, and it seems to be happening with increasing regularity these
days.
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Domestic packages or international ?
Most of my domestic packages are moving along right now. I do not ship international,
so someone else will have to speak to those.
One suggestion is that you absolutely need to get scans when you hand it over.
Once USPS scans it, then it is documented as being in their possession, and various
delivery metrics begin to run. If you just leave them on the counter, then exit
the post office, it may. or may not, get scanned the same day.
Nita Rae
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The OP stated that they are waiting in line and getting scans. There have been
a ton of problems in northern Illinois over the last three months. Things are
just getting back to normal again these past two weeks.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1267628
I had two packages lost before they ever got to a sorting center and a 8-14 day
delay with many of my First Class orders. I also had to start waiting in line
for scans so my customers wouldn't see only 'Label Created' tracking
and assume that I hadn't shipped their order.
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | pitz8008 | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 13:04 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, jennnifer writes:
| | In Shipping, cosmicray writes:
| | In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Sellers,
I keep running into issues with buyers where USPS packages are being delayed
or lost in transit, and it seems to be happening with increasing regularity these
days.
|
Domestic packages or international ?
Most of my domestic packages are moving along right now. I do not ship international,
so someone else will have to speak to those.
One suggestion is that you absolutely need to get scans when you hand it over.
Once USPS scans it, then it is documented as being in their possession, and various
delivery metrics begin to run. If you just leave them on the counter, then exit
the post office, it may. or may not, get scanned the same day.
Nita Rae
|
The OP stated that they are waiting in line and getting scans. There have been
a ton of problems in northern Illinois over the last three months. Things are
just getting back to normal again these past two weeks.
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1267628
I had two packages lost before they ever got to a sorting center and a 8-14 day
delay with many of my First Class orders. I also had to start waiting in line
for scans so my customers wouldn't see only 'Label Created' tracking
and assume that I hadn't shipped their order.
Jen
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I'll second this. The amount of delays with the Chicago postal hub and a
couple of the ones nearby to the north have been an absolute disaster for the
last couple months. Even my post office that I go to is completely unrecognizable
from when I fist started going there years ago. From the new workers to the service
not provided, it's quite shameful what happened to it. I'm just seconding
everything Jen wrote because they have been my exact experiences as well.
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| | | | | Author: | Bond | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 11:44 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, Starship writes:
| | Sellers,
I keep running into issues with buyers where USPS packages are being delayed
or lost in transit, and it seems to be happening with increasing regularity these
days.
I don't mind buyer contacting me and letting me know there is an issue, but
it seems from these emails that there is implied assertion that I am ultimately
responsible for the delivery of the package by USPS.
I completely understand why a buyer would be upset and frustrated, I would be
too, but I am really struggling with the notion that as a seller I am supposed
to be acting a a guarantor for USPS. My thought is that so as long as there
is an initial scan by USPS (and these days I wait in line to ensure that it is
scanned by clerk), my responsibility is complete. I don't mind offering
suggestions or advice for lost packages after that. But as badly as I feel
about any lost package, I also don't feel like I need to step in and make
it right with refunds especially when a package is still in the USPS system.
I am curious to hear about other sellers' thoughts on this, and whether anyone
has a recommendation for a store policy on USPS delivery. I am contemplating
saying something along the line that "buyers have the option to purchase insurance
for any items purchased, but our store will not take responsibility for delivery
of an item once it has been tendered to USPS."
Appreciate other thoughts on this
Starship Brick
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I hope that the thoughts of a USPS rural carrier can carry weight in such a discussion.
In any case, the current USPS scanner has a menu option for scanning the barcodes
of pre-paid parcels, and the system makes a distinction between scanning parcels
for delivery and scanning them in order to get them into the system. Otherwise,
a parcel which has not yet been shipped, much less delivered, can mistakenly
be scanned as such.
I'm also a seller, and I was before I became a postal carrier. Then, as now,
I feel as you do. I'm all about customer service and accountability, but
there's a clear logic supporting the standpoint that our obligations to make
amends in the event of a mishap are severely curtailed once the parcel leaves
our control.
While I am not at liberty to disclose the details of how the USPS conducts its
daily operations (my employer might beat me up and take my lunch money), I can
confirm that the problem is getting worse, although the core of the issue is
not entirely at the feet of the carrier. Just an example of another relevant
factor is that a parcel can end up being trucked to another station, and has
to find its way back to the correct station before it can be delivered.
1) For Buyers: Sign up for Informed Delivery. This is a free service offered
by the USPS that sends a daily e-mail informing you of the letters, magazines,
catalogues, and parcels you can *expect* to receive by the end of that day. I
emphasize 'expect' because these items are pic-scanned at the local sorting
plant and not at the station; they could be delayed by a day or so, or could
have arrived before the e-mail was even sent. This especially applies to parcels.
Second, insist on a tracking number and insurance, even at increased cost. These
measures protect all parties.
2) For Sellers (and this is almost crucial): Send out all order parcels with
a scannable barcode, and unless you do as Starship does - that is, wait in line
in order to make sure that the receiving clerk scans the parcel barcode as received
- use the free Package Pickup service offered by the USPS. When you use this
service, your mail carrier gets a printout with a separate barcode. They are
now obligated (it's not optional) to go to your front door or other listed
place of pickup, pick up the parcel(s) listed, and scan the barcode on that printout.
This accomplishes two things: It enters all the barcodes of the applicable parcels
into the pre-paid system, and it informs the system that the parcels were picked
up. A carrier who doesn't scan the printout risks an unfavorable discussion
with a supervisor. As a carrier, I get one or more Package Pickup printouts almost
daily. Nearly always, the pickup location is at the front door.
Me? Whenever I ship orders, I admit to making use of my position to skip the
pickup formality. I take my orders into work, grab my scanner, and enter them
into the system forthwith before placing them into the outgoing bin. But since
Package Pickup is a free service, I'm not depriving my employer of any revenue.
- Pat (BL ID: Bond)
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| | | | | Author: | milwaukee | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2021 16:22 | | Subject: | Re: USPS Issues and Store Policy | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| The only non positive feedback I have at this moment is for "slow shipping".
Not really fare as I shipped the order the same day but it got delayed.
Unfortunately this does not qualify for feedback removal.
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USA, Illinois
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
