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| | | Author: | foxweasle  | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 02:52 | | Subject: | Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 191 times | | Topic: | Inventories | | Status: | Open | |
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| I thought I would post this Discussion to bring to the members awareness of a
possible misinterpretation of the Inventory list of Set 75248 Star Wars Resistance
A-Wing Starfighter. The inventory is listed correct as I see it. I just opened
a sealed complete set and confirmed the Inventory. The only Item in Question
is Part 15303 Trans-Red Bar 8L with round End (Spring Shooter Dart). In the Instructions
it does show 3 Items are used but only 2 are actually used in the set. At first
I would think the 3rd piece would be considered an extra part, but since all
three are listed in step 101 the last Instruction step. The Inventory should
remain unchanged.
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| | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 03:40 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
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| In Inventories, foxweasle writes:
| | I thought I would post this Discussion to bring to the members awareness of a
possible misinterpretation of the Inventory list of Set 75248 Star Wars Resistance
A-Wing Starfighter. The inventory is listed correct as I see it. I just opened
a sealed complete set and confirmed the Inventory. The only Item in Question
is Part 15303 Trans-Red Bar 8L with round End (Spring Shooter Dart). In the Instructions
it does show 3 Items are used but only 2 are actually used in the set. At first
I would think the 3rd piece would be considered an extra part, but since all
three are listed in step 101 the last Instruction step. The Inventory should
remain unchanged.
|
All three are listed. But only two were used. There is no place for the third
one.
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| | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 09:13 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, foxweasle writes:
| | I thought I would post this Discussion to bring to the members awareness of a
possible misinterpretation of the Inventory list of Set 75248 Star Wars Resistance
A-Wing Starfighter. The inventory is listed correct as I see it. I just opened
a sealed complete set and confirmed the Inventory. The only Item in Question
is Part 15303 Trans-Red Bar 8L with round End (Spring Shooter Dart). In the Instructions
it does show 3 Items are used but only 2 are actually used in the set. At first
I would think the 3rd piece would be considered an extra part, but since all
three are listed in step 101 the last Instruction step. The Inventory should
remain unchanged.
|
Bricklink set inventories are not based on the building instructions at all.
The printed parts list is the only thing that matters. It is a widespread misunderstanding
that the regular section of the inventory lists the parts needed to complete
the set according to the instructions.
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 10:48 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
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| In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | Bricklink set inventories are not based on the building instructions at all.
|
That is absolutely false. From BrickLink guidelines for what should be included
in the Regular Items section of an inventory:
"Parts required to build the main model and any secondary models plus
any other parts on the official parts list. In the absence of an official parts
list, the official parts count, the instructions, and/or images on the packaging
are used to determine as closely as possible the contents of this section."
In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | The printed parts list is the only thing that matters.
|
That is absolutely false. From the Standards for Inventorying a Set section,
which explicitly states that the source of an inventory should be a physical
copy of a set:
"You should have a physical copy of the set you are inventorying to properly
identify the parts and colors. When this is not possible for old or rare sets,
then it is acceptable to use the instructions, set picture, or parts list (sometimes
printed on the box or in the instructions) to complete the inventory."
I hope the following sentence clears the confusion:
BrickLink inventories are based on what actually came in the box or bag.
Parts lists have errors. Set photos have errors. Building instructions have
errors. You like the idea of simple, straightforward, commonsense guidelines,
Don. Well, the sentence in bold text above is as simple and as sensible as you
can possibly get and you should applaud this if you stand behind your principles.
I understand and have participated in the debate about how to best represent
what came in the box or bag, but saying that BrickLink bases inventories on the
parts list only and that inventories are not based on the building instructions
at all is spreading misinformation.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 11:33 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
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| In Inventories, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | Bricklink set inventories are not based on the building instructions at all.
|
That is absolutely false. From BrickLink guidelines for what should be included
in the Regular Items section of an inventory:
"Parts required to build the main model and any secondary models plus
any other parts on the official parts list. In the absence of an official parts
list, the official parts count, the instructions, and/or images on the packaging
are used to determine as closely as possible the contents of this section."
|
| | In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | The printed parts list is the only thing that matters.
|
That is absolutely false. From the Standards for Inventorying a Set section,
which explicitly states that the source of an inventory should be a physical
copy of a set:
|
You have forgotten to boldface plus any other parts on the official parts
list.
Since there will be no parts in the building instructions that are not also on
the parts list, the parts list is all that matters.
| |
"You should have a physical copy of the set you are inventorying to properly
identify the parts and colors. When this is not possible for old or rare sets,
then it is acceptable to use the instructions, set picture, or parts list (sometimes
printed on the box or in the instructions) to complete the inventory."
I hope the following sentence clears the confusion:
BrickLink inventories are based on what actually came in the box or bag.
Parts lists have errors. Set photos have errors. Building instructions have
errors. You like the idea of simple, straightforward, commonsense guidelines,
Don. Well, the sentence in bold text above is as simple and as sensible as you
can possibly get and you should applaud this if you stand behind your principles.
|
As I have pointed out elsewhere, packing a lot of vagueness into a short statement
does not make it more simple. "Based on" is the slippery term, here.
You are playing fast and loose with the definition of "inventory." The discussion
here is not about the complete inventory page, but in what section the parts
appear within that inventory. Nobody disputes that if three darts came in the
box, three darts should appear somewhere on the inventory page for the set. However
as is demonstrated by the existence of this thread, there are many people who
have come to understand that the regular section represents only the parts included
in the building instructions. For purposes of classifying parts within the inventory,
the building instructions do not matter.
| |
I understand and have participated in the debate about how to best represent
what came in the box or bag, but saying that BrickLink bases inventories on the
parts list only and that inventories are not based on the building instructions
at all is spreading misinformation.
|
I disagree. The building instructions are not used to determine whether a part
is in the Extras sections or the Regular section. The parts list is used for
this determination. The building instructions do not matter.
Where the building instructions do matter is in the determination of a
"complete" set. Unfortunately, since the fairly recent romp through the inventories,
Bricklink is no longer a reference point for this information. It is now up to
each individual seller to verify their own complete set listing against the building
instructions. It takes about thirty seconds to amass thousands of listings for
used, complete sets with the remarks that they do not include the "extras." What
sellers almost always mean by "extras" is "the parts listed in the Extras section
of the inventory."
The admins know this, but the official response is, well, you know, it says at
the bottom of the page the inventory is just a guide, so, you know, let's
just pretend that our actions have no consequences and make with the change requests.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 11:51 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
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| In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | Nobody disputes that if three darts came in the
box, three darts should appear somewhere on the inventory page for the set. However
as is demonstrated by the existence of this thread, there are many people who
have come to understand that the regular section represents only the parts included
in the building instructions. For purposes of classifying parts within the inventory,
|
For the record about this set. Instruction clearly shows three darts being used
in build process  (step 101, so this is not an extra part)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 12:10 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | Nobody disputes that if three darts came in the
box, three darts should appear somewhere on the inventory page for the set. However
as is demonstrated by the existence of this thread, there are many people who
have come to understand that the regular section represents only the parts included
in the building instructions. For purposes of classifying parts within the inventory,
|
For the record about this set. Instruction clearly shows three darts being used
in build process (step 101, so this is not an extra part)
|
Yes, the OP is correct, but for the wrong reason. The inventory would still be
"correct" even if the instructions only showed the two darts that can be held
by the model, because there are three darts in the parts list. The parts list
determines whether a part is extra or not, and not the building instructions.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 12:57 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
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| In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | The parts list determines whether a part is extra or not, and not the building instructions.
|
In this recent set, yes:
In this recent set, no:
So there is an inconsistent approach.
Nevertheless, we need the ability to display and use inventories in different
ways based on the needs of the person viewing that inventory. You don't
think so, because you want inventories to be structured in the specific way that
you feel is best for users of the site.
Why not just agree with me that inventories can do more than the system currently
allows and join me in the push for customizable inventories?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 13:16 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | The parts list determines whether a part is extra or not, and not the building instructions.
|
In this recent set, yes:
In this recent set, no:
So there is an inconsistent approach.
Nevertheless, we need the ability to display and use inventories in different
ways based on the needs of the person viewing that inventory. You don't
think so, because you want inventories to be structured in the specific way that
you feel is best for users of the site.
Why not just agree with me that inventories can do more than the system currently
allows and join me in the push for customizable inventories?
|
This feels like a false choice. Of course we would all like to see greater convenience
and functionality, but that does not mean we should allow information and functionality
to be removed now in the hope that someday we'll have a system
that lets us put it back. How about we use the existing functionality,
which will support all the information people want, including the full box contents
as they were packaged as well as the parts that form a "complete" set, and then
when (if) those extra features come along we can talk about how to use them?
Because we have put the cart firmly before the horse, here. There are thousands
of complete set listings right now that do not include all the parts Bricklink
says they should - some of them quite expensive parts. This is not due to any
error or wrongdoing by the sellers. It is purely the result of inventory changes
that have been made to accord with bad policies. I don't hear anybody really
defending that. I'm not surprised, as it seems indefensible.
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| | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 13:31 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | Bricklink set inventories are not based on the building instructions at all.
The printed parts list is the only thing that matters. It is a widespread misunderstanding
that the regular section of the inventory lists the parts needed to complete
the set according to the instructions.
|
Wow, this is a pretty bold incorrect assertion. I was an inventory admin for
three years. The building instructions are the ultimate source for accurate inventories.
Not every set follows every rule, but that is where everything starts.
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 14:00 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, jennnifer writes:
| | In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | Bricklink set inventories are not based on the building instructions at all.
The printed parts list is the only thing that matters. It is a widespread misunderstanding
that the regular section of the inventory lists the parts needed to complete
the set according to the instructions.
|
Wow, this is a pretty bold incorrect assertion. I was an inventory admin for
three years. The building instructions are the ultimate source for accurate inventories.
Not every set follows every rule, but that is where everything starts.
Jen
|
This does not fit with the current policy that it is the box contents, not the
building instructions, that are the basis of the inventories.
And if a part is present in the parts list but not in the building instructions,
it will be included in the regular items. In other words, the parts list overrules
the building instructions. So do other policies, like the one covering parts
on sprues.
I believe you that the former actual practice was to base the regular parts section
on the building instructions. You can see evidence of this in the change logs
of some parts that have been moved from regular to extra (like the small plumes).
That appears not to have been in compliance with the policy as it is now being
enforced, so despite it having been the actual practice, and despite the fact
that many longtime Bricklinkers still believe it to be the practice, it is not
the case, and those parts have been put back in the regular section. For many
of these sets, there is now no information on Bricklink indicating what parts
are included in the building instructions.
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| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 13:57 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 101 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, foxweasle writes:
| | I thought I would post this Discussion to bring to the members awareness of a
possible misinterpretation of the Inventory list of Set 75248 Star Wars Resistance
A-Wing Starfighter. The inventory is listed correct as I see it. I just opened
a sealed complete set and confirmed the Inventory. The only Item in Question
is Part 15303 Trans-Red Bar 8L with round End (Spring Shooter Dart). In the Instructions
it does show 3 Items are used but only 2 are actually used in the set. At first
I would think the 3rd piece would be considered an extra part, but since all
three are listed in step 101 the last Instruction step. The Inventory should
remain unchanged.
|
Some of the best reads on the subject of BL’s catalog, are between the members
in this thread:
StormChaser
62Bricks
Hygrotus
jennnifer
When they come together in debate, it’s gold!
TLG, if you’re reading this, covet these individual’s collective knowledge and
passion for the site. Two of which have abdicated their admin positions in said
passion.
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| | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 17:35 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, popsicle writes:
| | In Inventories, foxweasle writes:
| | I thought I would post this Discussion to bring to the members awareness of a
possible misinterpretation of the Inventory list of Set 75248 Star Wars Resistance
A-Wing Starfighter. The inventory is listed correct as I see it. I just opened
a sealed complete set and confirmed the Inventory. The only Item in Question
is Part 15303 Trans-Red Bar 8L with round End (Spring Shooter Dart). In the Instructions
it does show 3 Items are used but only 2 are actually used in the set. At first
I would think the 3rd piece would be considered an extra part, but since all
three are listed in step 101 the last Instruction step. The Inventory should
remain unchanged.
|
Some of the best reads on the subject of BL’s catalog, are between the members
in this thread:
StormChaser
62Bricks
Hygrotus
jennnifer
When they come together in debate, it’s gold!
TLG, if you’re reading this, covet these individual’s collective knowledge and
passion for the site. Two of which have abdicated their admin positions in said
passion.
|
I would join the discussion, but I have laid out my thoughts, ideas, opinions,
and general method of approach to our catalog and inventory strategies many times
to Don, and he continues to belittle the admins (who aren't paid and give
exceptionally of ourselves to this site) and rant that his opinion is the only
one that matters. Those are truly the personality hallmarks of trying to affect
change! I understand what he wants, but the admins just settled on a different
means to getting there and I don't believe any of us are going to apologize
for our joint decisions. The decisions require site development, and I am more
hopeful than ever that we can get there once LEGO looks to start developing the
site. Until then, he can rant until he is blue in the face or starts his own
marketplace.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 18:13 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories, popsicle writes:
| | In Inventories, foxweasle writes:
| | I thought I would post this Discussion to bring to the members awareness of a
possible misinterpretation of the Inventory list of Set 75248 Star Wars Resistance
A-Wing Starfighter. The inventory is listed correct as I see it. I just opened
a sealed complete set and confirmed the Inventory. The only Item in Question
is Part 15303 Trans-Red Bar 8L with round End (Spring Shooter Dart). In the Instructions
it does show 3 Items are used but only 2 are actually used in the set. At first
I would think the 3rd piece would be considered an extra part, but since all
three are listed in step 101 the last Instruction step. The Inventory should
remain unchanged.
|
Some of the best reads on the subject of BL’s catalog, are between the members
in this thread:
StormChaser
62Bricks
Hygrotus
jennnifer
When they come together in debate, it’s gold!
TLG, if you’re reading this, covet these individual’s collective knowledge and
passion for the site. Two of which have abdicated their admin positions in said
passion.
|
I would join the discussion, but I have laid out my thoughts, ideas, opinions,
and general method of approach to our catalog and inventory strategies many times
to Don, and he continues to belittle the admins (who aren't paid and give
exceptionally of ourselves to this site) and rant that his opinion is the only
one that matters. Those are truly the personality hallmarks of trying to affect
change! I understand what he wants, but the admins just settled on a different
means to getting there and I don't believe any of us are going to apologize
for our joint decisions. The decisions require site development, and I am more
hopeful than ever that we can get there once LEGO looks to start developing the
site. Until then, he can rant until he is blue in the face or starts his own
marketplace.
Cheers,
Randy
|
As the admin who personally undid fifteen years worth of past practice on dozens
of former extra part entries, Randy, your input would be most welcome.
Don't explain it to me - explain it to the OP, who is one of many users here
who is still relying on those years of past practice in determining the difference
between a regular and an extra part. Whatever explaining you may have done to
me, the message apparently has not reached the whole community.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 18:26 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | As the admin who personally undid fifteen years worth of past practice on dozens
of former extra part entries, Randy, your input would be most welcome.
|
Please list these "dozens" of former extra part entries for me.
| | Don't explain it to me - explain it to the OP, who is one of many users here
who is still relying on those years of past practice in determining the difference
between a regular and an extra part. Whatever explaining you may have done to
me, the message apparently has not reached the whole community.
|
The parts the OP is talking about were never handled differently ever, so I don't
know what there is to explain about it. In fact, the OP says the inventory should
remain unchanged. What exactly is the issue here?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 20:45 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories, 62Bricks writes:
| | As the admin who personally undid fifteen years worth of past practice on dozens
of former extra part entries, Randy, your input would be most welcome.
|
Please list these "dozens" of former extra part entries for me.
|
And because it might be hard for you to come up with this, I have gone through
all my work since becoming an admin, and these are the entries where I focused
my work that had an effect on extra parts:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[p=4073c01]
on the guidance of Russell (the BrickLink employee who was in charge of the volunteer
admins) to start work he had not got around to. This entry is very far along
in getting corrected in the inventories thanks to many awesome contributors (you
know who you are).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[p=28628c01pb01]
[p=28628c01pb02]
[p=28628c01pb03]
[p=4502c01]
[p=4502w]
and
[p=6029c01]
because they were the last sprue entries out of 29 in the catalog that did not
follow the conventions that were already in place for the rest of them. With
this work, all sprue entries became consistently handled across the catalog and
inventories. The official guidelines were being codified and put in place at
the same time that this work was being handled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, seven entries. Definitely not dozens. And out of all of this work, I have
received a total of one complaint. Care to guess who it comes from?
I respect your opinion and I understand it, but I do not want to see the site
go backwards from where it has gotten to with a lot of work from a lot of different
people. You just do not have a forward-thinking approach of the problems with
the current system. I want to see the site keep moving forward, and sometimes
that requires some shakeups and some perseverance. I truly hope LEGO will listen
to where we want to take the inventories system, because it will truly allow
individuals to use the inventories how they want to.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 21:47 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, randyf writes:
| | In fact, the OP says the inventory should
remain unchanged. What exactly is the issue here?
|
That confused me as well. I know a few other inventories that are also fine
how they are.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 22:44 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories, popsicle writes:
| | In Inventories, foxweasle writes:
| | I thought I would post this Discussion to bring to the members awareness of a
possible misinterpretation of the Inventory list of Set 75248 Star Wars Resistance
A-Wing Starfighter. The inventory is listed correct as I see it. I just opened
a sealed complete set and confirmed the Inventory. The only Item in Question
is Part 15303 Trans-Red Bar 8L with round End (Spring Shooter Dart). In the Instructions
it does show 3 Items are used but only 2 are actually used in the set. At first
I would think the 3rd piece would be considered an extra part, but since all
three are listed in step 101 the last Instruction step. The Inventory should
remain unchanged.
|
Some of the best reads on the subject of BL’s catalog, are between the members
in this thread:
StormChaser
62Bricks
Hygrotus
jennnifer
When they come together in debate, it’s gold!
TLG, if you’re reading this, covet these individual’s collective knowledge and
passion for the site. Two of which have abdicated their admin positions in said
passion.
|
I would join the discussion, but I have laid out my thoughts, ideas, opinions,
and general method of approach to our catalog and inventory strategies many times
to Don, and he continues to belittle the admins (who aren't paid and give
exceptionally of ourselves to this site) and rant that his opinion is the only
one that matters. Those are truly the personality hallmarks of trying to affect
change! I understand what he wants, but the admins just settled on a different
means to getting there and I don't believe any of us are going to apologize
for our joint decisions. The decisions require site development, and I am more
hopeful than ever that we can get there once LEGO looks to start developing the
site. Until then, he can rant until he is blue in the face or starts his own
marketplace.
Cheers,
Randy
|
Like I said, passion
Passion is a feeling of intense enthusiasm towards or compelling desire for
someone or something. Passion can range from eager interest in or admiration
for an idea, proposal, or cause; to enthusiastic enjoyment of an interest or
activity...
and frankly it's what make the discussion between you all worth reading.
It would've been nice if you and axaday had joined in. Talk about a dream
team of catalog people!
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2020 23:29 | | Subject: | Re: Set 75248 Inventory Awareness | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Inventories | |
|
| In Inventories, popsicle writes:
| | It would've been nice if you and axaday had joined in. Talk about a dream
team of catalog people!
|
This thread confused me and I couldn't think of any way that I could contribute.
I could do inventories the way 62 wants if those were the rules. But like Randy
said, they just aren't the rules. I try to do all of my catalog work in
the way I believe it will be quickly and easily approved.
I understand the place 62 is in. I usually read what he has to say about things.
When I disagree with the admins, I usually do it in private messages. Sometimes
they explain to me what I didn't understand and other times they just explain
that they disagree with me and they get to decide. They sacrifice a lot of time
for the authority they have and that's just the way it is.
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USA, Nevada
Luxembourg
Poland, w. Wielkopolskie
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