Discussion Forum: Thread 255779

 Author: SRC View Messages Posted By SRC
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 03:15
 Subject: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 198 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

SRC (372)

Location:  Canada, Alberta
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 29, 2000 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: StRuCtures™
The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC
 Author: Nordbart View Messages Posted By Nordbart
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 03:34
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 38 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

Nordbart (12)

Location:  Germany, Schleswig-Holstein
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 19, 2013 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

I mean basically every big set has a heavy instruction... I just looked some
up Technic I personally own Bugatti Chiron 1.5 kg, Porsche GT3RS 1.4 kg, Mercedes
Arocs 1kg .

If the set has thousands of pieces there has to be a hefty manual. These days
LEGO splits the building process in many many small steps apart from the old
times when you have like 50 parts in one building step. This will automatically
lead to heavier instruction books.

In the end it will make building easier.
nordbart
 Author: iprice View Messages Posted By iprice
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 03:41
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 35 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

iprice (383)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 15, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
I can see a point in the near future where Lego stops producing paper instruction
manuals and goes completely digital - it has already started with the Star Wars
Droid Commander. TBF this is a set that requires an app for use, but I can see
more and more Lego sets requiring/using mobile tech to use or add play value
to the set (Hidden Side etc.)

It will also be cheaper for Lego to produce, create less paper, reduce box sizes/weights
and transportation costs. Better for profits and environment.
 Author: Miro78 View Messages Posted By Miro78
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 09:46
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 35 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

Miro78 (1912)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 17, 2012 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Brick Corner
In New Sets, iprice writes:
  I can see a point in the near future where Lego stops producing paper instruction
manuals and goes completely digital - it has already started with the Star Wars
Droid Commander. TBF this is a set that requires an app for use, but I can see
more and more Lego sets requiring/using mobile tech to use or add play value
to the set (Hidden Side etc.)

It will also be cheaper for Lego to produce, create less paper, reduce box sizes/weights
and transportation costs. Better for profits and environment.

It's not a decision to be made lightly and here are some legitimate reasons
why it's a good idea to keep printed instructions:

1) For many families, building with Lego is meant to be unplugging from the electronic
devices that soak up lots of our youth's time.
2) Printed instructions allow one to build anywhere where there may not be access
to the internet (grandma's house, vacation, during power outage, etc)
3) Printed instructions are of higher quality than PDF files.

...I am sure there are many other ones, and on the flip side, there are very
good legitimate reason for the counter argument. I bet Lego has debated this
same argument, and came to conclusion that it's not a good business decision
at the moment. Us adults debating this has little to do with it as long as Lego
is considered primarily as a child's toy and parent's purchasing decision
is the key motivator.

Miro
 Author: TheBrickGuys View Messages Posted By TheBrickGuys
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 13:07
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 39 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

TheBrickGuys (8855)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 18, 2010 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: TheBrickGuys
In New Sets, Miro78 writes:
  In New Sets, iprice writes:
  I can see a point in the near future where Lego stops producing paper instruction
manuals and goes completely digital - it has already started with the Star Wars
Droid Commander. TBF this is a set that requires an app for use, but I can see
more and more Lego sets requiring/using mobile tech to use or add play value
to the set (Hidden Side etc.)

It will also be cheaper for Lego to produce, create less paper, reduce box sizes/weights
and transportation costs. Better for profits and environment.

It's not a decision to be made lightly and here are some legitimate reasons
why it's a good idea to keep printed instructions:

1) For many families, building with Lego is meant to be unplugging from the electronic
devices that soak up lots of our youth's time.
2) Printed instructions allow one to build anywhere where there may not be access
to the internet (grandma's house, vacation, during power outage, etc)
3) Printed instructions are of higher quality than PDF files.

...I am sure there are many other ones, and on the flip side, there are very
good legitimate reason for the counter argument. I bet Lego has debated this
same argument, and came to conclusion that it's not a good business decision
at the moment. Us adults debating this has little to do with it as long as Lego
is considered primarily as a child's toy and parent's purchasing decision
is the key motivator.

Miro

I agree with all 3 points you made. I recently bought the treehouse and I would
hate to have to look at a pdf to build it and for me, unplugging, is an important
part of building.

I really appreciate your second point of going places where there may not be
an internet to build. One of my favorite things to do when going on vacations
is to bring a set along for the ride to build it and quite often there is no
internet connection and even when there is, I dont want to be trying to build
a set while looking at a phone screen.

In fact, I actually like when a large set has a big book, it feels like it is
adding value to the set. I remember when I purchased the Death Star and being
amazed at the size of the book of instructions with it's plastic binder -
the thing is huge.

That all being said, I do appreciate that not printing instructions would save
a lot of trees so I would (or will) fully support Lego not including instructions
in their sets if they choose to go that route which I imagine they will. They
will definitely need to improve the quality of the PDF versions of their instructions
or they will lose a lot of future customers.

I think I would especially appreciate not having printed instructions when breaking
down a lot of sets for adding inventory into our store. We can end up having
several pounds of booklets that we just end up putting in the recycle bin.



Putting the issue aside for a moment... The set is a BEAUTIFUL set. I went into
a Lego store the other day just as an employee was finishing building one and
I was really impressed by it. It has a lot of really nice detailing and I especially
liked the fact that Lego included fall colored leaves that you can use to change
out all the green leaves with if you wanted to give it a different feel to it.
I liked it so much I purchased one.

Jim
 Author: boundher View Messages Posted By boundher
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 11:02
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 28 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

boundher (168)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 5, 2018 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Fee's Brix
In New Sets, iprice writes:
  I can see a point in the near future where Lego stops producing paper instruction
manuals and goes completely digital - it has already started with the Star Wars
Droid Commander. TBF this is a set that requires an app for use, but I can see
more and more Lego sets requiring/using mobile tech to use or add play value
to the set (Hidden Side etc.)

It will also be cheaper for Lego to produce, create less paper, reduce box sizes/weights
and transportation costs. Better for profits and environment.

A set I have, 8053 Technic Mobile Crane, the other build, a Dock Crane, is an
online download

Harry
 Author: JusTiCe8 View Messages Posted By JusTiCe8
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 11:27
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 30 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

JusTiCe8 (49)

Location:  France, Île-de-France
Member Since Contact Type Status
Oct 27, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
Some people at TLG are not that concerned as quite expensive sets are put into
huge box to make it looks like a way to justify the price.

What the point of putting a few bags and one or more manual(s) moving around
in a big box which cause issues when you don't have a big truck to bring
that box home ?

I have bought the TLM2 Systar and Movie Maker sets (less than 700 and 500 parts
resp.) not at the same time and have trouble with the box (I just have a bike)
and they sounds so empty... I miss the old sets of the 80s with better/smarter
sized boxes and more "luxurious" dsiplay like Technic sets.

In New Sets, iprice writes:
[...]
  It will also be cheaper for Lego to produce, create less paper, reduce box sizes/weights
and transportation costs. Better for profits and environment.
 Author: Adjour View Messages Posted By Adjour
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 15:12
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 37 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

Adjour (475)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 1, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Chili is a Bit Spicy
In New Sets, iprice writes:
  I can see a point in the near future where Lego stops producing paper instruction
manuals and goes completely digital


Oh my I hope not.


I love manuals.


I have using a pdf to build.


Many people (like myself) collect the manuals. Also a very large portion of
my store and ebay is selling the books.

just my opinion.
 Author: Adjour View Messages Posted By Adjour
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 15:15
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 43 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

Adjour (475)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 1, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Chili is a Bit Spicy
In New Sets, Adjour writes:
  In New Sets, iprice writes:
  I can see a point in the near future where Lego stops producing paper instruction
manuals and goes completely digital


Oh my I hope not.


I love manuals.


I have using a pdf to build.


Many people (like myself) collect the manuals. Also a very large portion of
my store and ebay is selling the books.

just my opinion.

*hate using a pdf. Hurts my eyes and I have to build at my desk.
 Author: calsbricks View Messages Posted By calsbricks
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 03:51
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 37 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

calsbricks (5728)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Aug 12, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: CalsBricks
In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

Some time ago now, Microsoft, arguably the worlds largest computer firm (Don't
argue about Apple), stopped all types of media and went digital. Software is
downloadable and so are manuals so why produce them. Their idea is to cut waste
and replace the use of paper etc with digital versions - It would not surprise
us if Lego moved in the same direction - just about everyone has access to some
form of digital communications, so why print reams of paper at a huge cost to
both the environment and your pocketbook, when you do not have to
 Author: Nordbart View Messages Posted By Nordbart
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 03:59
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 28 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

Nordbart (12)

Location:  Germany, Schleswig-Holstein
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 19, 2013 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In New Sets, calsbricks writes:
  In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

Some time ago now, Microsoft, arguably the worlds largest computer firm (Don't
argue about Apple), stopped all types of media and went digital. Software is
downloadable and so are manuals so why produce them. Their idea is to cut waste
and replace the use of paper etc with digital versions - It would not surprise
us if Lego moved in the same direction - just about everyone has access to some
form of digital communications, so why print reams of paper at a huge cost to
both the environment and your pocketbook, when you do not have to

Sure. The B Model of the Arocs already is a downloadable instruction.
Though building with my still sizeable but relativly small phone was a bit inconvenient.
Guess I need to invest in a proper tablet in the future.

...or clean up my Computer desk...
*eyeroll*

nordbart
 Author: tonnic View Messages Posted By tonnic
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 04:03
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 32 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

tonnic (3068)

Location:  Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 30, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Tons_of_Bricks
So in fact you are saying they need to cut down a tree to make these instructions.

In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC
 Author: cycbuild View Messages Posted By cycbuild
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 04:40
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 43 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

cycbuild (451)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Apr 15, 2019 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
View Collage Pic
Store Closed Store: AFOL At Names
In New Sets, tonnic writes:
  So in fact you are saying they need to cut down a tree to make these instructions.

:'D

The whole thing about turning biodegradable plants into polyethylene is absolutely
bonkers. It sustains their business. It has nothing to do with environmental
awareness.

A better solve to an immutable global footprint would be permanent "new elementary"
micro parts with reinforced micro-connections that could in turn be folded and
joined into various part configurations. Oh wait, there's no need for that,
because that's what LEGO is.

An actual sustainable plan, is if LEGO only sold new specific molds and digital
instructions, and relied on a global network for people to find their parts.
If there's isn't enough of one part, then creativity would become the
backbone of future builders, by default.

Stupid plastic plants......oh my god.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 08:43
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 33 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In New Sets, cycbuild writes:
  In New Sets, tonnic writes:
  So in fact you are saying they need to cut down a tree to make these instructions.

:'D

The whole thing about turning biodegradable plants into polyethylene is absolutely
bonkers. It sustains their business. It has nothing to do with environmental
awareness.

Not really:

Oil is carbone that was trapped millions years ago, sugar cane grows now and
traps carbone now. And extracting oil is becoming increasingly worse for the
environment (bitumous oil, fracking…).

Yes, there’s a lot of marketting, it’s not all green, but they are not stupid
either and there’s some green in there.
 Author: cycbuild View Messages Posted By cycbuild
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 09:10
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 32 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

cycbuild (451)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Apr 15, 2019 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
View Collage Pic
Store Closed Store: AFOL At Names
In New Sets, SylvainLS writes:
  Oil is carbone that was trapped millions years ago, sugar cane grows now and
traps carbone now. And extracting oil is becoming increasingly worse for the
environment (bitumous oil, fracking…).

Yes, there’s a lot of marketting, it’s not all green, but they are not stupid
either and there’s some green in there.

Fair enough, ABS won't be outdone until tactile AR. Everybody likes hoity
toity new parts. But the eventual point is to drive an electric car, not to fill
one with peppermint oil. The current LEGO AR stuff is much more green, albeit
Matrix tinted.
 Author: Emporiosa View Messages Posted By Emporiosa
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 07:15
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 42 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

Emporiosa (950)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 5, 2018 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Emporiosa
In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

Not only did they make it massive and not split it up, but the book itself feels
different. To me, it feels a bit more like a Sears catalogue style. I think it
might be made from recycled paper (as per the theme of the set).
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 12:17
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 30 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

Teup (4137)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

Nowadays LEGO sets have just about as many parts as there are steps in the instruction.
I miss the nineties, when you would build your space base and when you were done
you'd still have 10 "extra" parts left
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 12:30
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 34 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In New Sets, Teup writes:
  In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

Nowadays LEGO sets have just about as many parts as there are steps in the instruction.
I miss the nineties, when you would build your space base and when you were done
you'd still have 10 "extra" parts left

Yeah, kids these days have it too easy!

No arrows, no outline, no list of bricks per step, dozens of bricks at once,
that was the way!
 Author: wahiggin View Messages Posted By wahiggin
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 14:12
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 26 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

wahiggin (2021)

Location:  USA, Alabama
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Jun 30, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
View Collage Pic
Store: We-Like-It Bricks
In New Sets, Teup writes:
  In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

Nowadays LEGO sets have just about as many parts as there are steps in the instruction.
I miss the nineties, when you would build your space base and when you were done
you'd still have 10 "extra" parts left

I just finished rebuilding every classic pirate set and that is part of the fun,
playing the game "what's different from step 3 and 4". I have to go back
and put in missing parts all the time.

The pdf scans of instructions from that era are very hard to read and see the
differences.
 
 Author: wahiggin View Messages Posted By wahiggin
 Posted: Aug 6, 2019 14:13
 Subject: Re: 21318 Treehouse Instruction BOOK
 Viewed: 28 times
 Topic: New Sets
Cancel Message
Cancel
Reply to Message
Reply
BrickLink
ID Card

wahiggin (2021)

Location:  USA, Alabama
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Jun 30, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
View Collage Pic
Store: We-Like-It Bricks
In New Sets, wahiggin writes:
  In New Sets, Teup writes:
  In New Sets, SRC writes:
  The instruction book for the 21318 treehouse set is just that - a book.
It's huge! A significant portion of the almost 4Kg weight of the set.

SRC

Nowadays LEGO sets have just about as many parts as there are steps in the instruction.
I miss the nineties, when you would build your space base and when you were done
you'd still have 10 "extra" parts left

I just finished rebuilding every classic pirate set and that is part of the fun,
playing the game "what's different from step 3 and 4". I have to go back
and put in missing parts all the time.

The pdf scans of instructions from that era are very hard to read and see the
differences.

Video of pirate sets: https://photos.app.goo.gl/11cdcP7c8dioXJWd8