| Discussion Forum: Thread 249163 |
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| | | Author: | SezaR  | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2019 01:35 | | Subject: | Inventory Change Request for Set 7725-1 | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests (Entry) | | Status: | Open | |
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| Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part bb12va Black Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type I with 2 round contact holes (Alternate) (match ID 3)
* Change 1 Part Black bb12vb Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type II with 3 round contact holes {match ID 0 to 3}
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2019 11:35 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 7725-1 | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part bb12va Black Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type I with 2 round contact holes (Alternate) (match ID 3)
* Change 1 Part Black bb12vb Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type II with 3 round contact holes {match ID 0 to 3}
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Please post any relevant evidence you have to support this change request.
Thanks,
Randy
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| | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2019 22:21 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 7725-1 | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part bb12va Black Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type I with 2 round contact holes (Alternate) (match ID 3)
* Change 1 Part Black bb12vb Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type II with 3 round contact holes {match ID 0 to 3}
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Please post any relevant evidence you have to support this change request.
Thanks,
Randy
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I spent 10 minutes and types 25 lines and then clicked and got an error. 
I will type it again once I get time.
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| | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Mar 2, 2019 19:04 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 7725-1 | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part bb12va Black Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type I with 2 round contact holes (Alternate) (match ID 3)
* Change 1 Part Black bb12vb Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type II with 3 round contact holes {match ID 0 to 3}
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Last year, I wrote a thread on Europebrick.com and requested people to provide
me the production dates of their 12v motors.
https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/158820-help-when-were-your-12v-motors-released-lets-complete-the-table/
I learnt a lot from the data I got and corrected the inventories of all 12v trains.
But two questions were no answered, one concerning 7725 and the other 7760. I
am personally sure now that the very early releases of 7725 came with bb12va
(I call this motor type 1; it has 2 contact holes). There is almost no hope we
find a sealed set and even a set with sealed content is not 100% trusted because
its motor did not come sealed in the box and could be exchanged with another
one.
So based on my date, the latest production date of bb12va is 41 0 (41th week
in 1980). The next production date that we found is 08 81 (8th week in 1981)
and it is the motor bb12vb (I call this motor type 2; it has three contact holes
and the pin is integrated with its housing).
Side note: the production dates in 1981 are like that 08 81, 15 81, 22 81, 23
81, 23 81,...
I think this is related to the fact that in summer 1981, the train 7725 (so the
12v trains) were also released in other countries like UK, France and Italy so
they produced more motors in 22 81, 23 81, 24 81,...
The story began as there were one shop in Netherlands who had a neat 7725 with
box. In the desciption, he mentioned that 2731a was missing, so incomplete. After
this inventory change request
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=231333
The store was "New (and Used) Old Sets" and the user "jansc". He still has the
set in his inventory.
I contacted him and let him know that his copy was indeed complete and requested
him some photos and the production date of his motor. The production date was
41 0! He got three sets 7725, 7740 and 7866 form the first owner who unfortunately
had passed away. He had kept his sets in perfect condition, keeping everything
as the first day.
I also checked photos of 7740 and the production date of its motor. It was from
very early 1980 and the type of box confirms this (will comment more about this)
So I am sure the motors were not switched between the two sets.
Later, I found other used copies of 7725 coming with motor 41 0.
To be continued with more photos and comments.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Mar 4, 2019 03:03 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 7725-1 | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| I provide here all the production dates of black motors in late 1980:
35 0 / 37 0 / 40 0 / 41 0
And those in 1981:
8 81 (found many times), 15 81 (found many times)/ 22 81 (found many times) /
23 81 / 24 81/ 25 81 / 26 81 / 27 81 / 28 81 / 30 81 / 31 81 / 37 81 / 39 81
/ 42 81 / 47 81 / 49 81
8 81 was around the end of February. The most important point is that for the
releases of 7725 in early 1981, what motor was used? And the answer is: bb12va
with production date 41 0.
It is indeed known that TLG didn't throw away anything. Since the motor bb12va
was only used for one or (few) first production run(s) while this set was
in market for four years between 1981-1984, I requested to add it as alternate.
Few comments about the sets 7725 and 7740 that jansc received from their original
owner who also gave me few photos:
7725:
- The box of 7725 is DK/F/NL (those sold in Germany, Belgium and Netherlands
between 1981-82)
- it comes with sleepers without cable grooves (produced between 1980-82)
- It does not include 3241c as this one was only released in 1982 and used for
7725, 7730 and 7740 since 1982.
7740:
- It does not include 3241c as this one was only released in 1982 and used for
7725, 7730 and 7740 since 1982.
- the two green trays have rounded corners which was only used between 1980-mid
1980. (for this set and other trains like 7720, 7730, 7750 and some other Technic
or universal sets like 8860) This matches with the production date of motor below,
(see photo attached and compare with the photo of another empty box)
- the production date of motor was 13 0. (see photo attached) so the two motors
were not switched between the two sets.
- the sleepers are 747 as for 7725. (this single evidence shows that this copy
was released between 1980-82)
- there are texts in three languages (versus 9) inside the box (right top side
in the photo) which shows that this version was released between 1980-81. Since
1982, they added 6 languages and printed the text in total of 9 languages.
- both boxes comes with all inner trays which is rare and shows that the first
owner had kept them in neat condition
Among many, I also found another used neat copy of 7725 from Ebay of Germany
whose motor was 41 0 but I only have the link of Ebay. The box is complete (all
trays), the train and box neat and it comes even with the wire which was most
of the time missing.
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Mar 8, 2019 12:24 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 7725-1 | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part bb12va Black Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type I with 2 round contact holes (Alternate) (match ID 3)
* Change 1 Part Black bb12vb Electric, Train Motor 12V Modern Type II with 3 round contact holes {match ID 0 to 3}
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Reza -
Marek and I have both looked over and studied all of your research. After that,
we had a discussion concerning all of it and we have reached a conclusion. At
this time, we are not going to make any changes to this inventory concerning
the motors.
I know you have spent a lot of time researching this topic, and your research
is very thorough and much appreciated. I think Marek and I both learned quite
a bit.
However, and this is the sticking point, all of your research still comes with
assumptions that are being made. All of the sets provided as evidence were still
second-hand sets that were not in the hands of the original owners. If we had
one original owner come forward and say, "I owned this copy of this train
set all my life, I never mixed it with anything, and it does have the older motor.",
then we would have no problem accepting this request. But, we don't. What
we have is someone trying to put together a picture that may not be correct even
if it seems to be correct.
What I will do is add an inventory note to the set that states it *may* have
come with the earlier motor due to some research that has been done, but it is
not guaranteed.
Thanks,
Randy
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Canada, British Columbia
USA, Ohio
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