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| | | Author: | normann1974  | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 14:22 | | Subject: | Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests (Entry) | | Status: | Open | |
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| Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Change 1 Part Black 48729 Bar 1L with Clip Mechanical Claw {Extra to Regular} {match ID 0 to 21}
* Change 1 Part Black 48729b Bar 1L with Clip Mechanical Claw, Cut Edges and Hole on Side {Extra to Regular} {match ID 0 to 21}
Comments from Submitter:
Part 48729b (inventory 437138) should not be extra, but a counterpart for the extra 48729 (inventory ID 390008). I know there are problems setting match ID for extras/counterparts (I'm told they are the same as existing, although they're not), so I'm temporarily changing both parts to regular to set Match ID 21 on them. Afterwards, please change inventory ID 390008 to extra and 437138 to counterpart. Thanks. 
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| | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 14:42 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Change 1 Part Black 48729 Bar 1L with Clip Mechanical Claw {Extra to Regular} {match ID 0 to 21}
* Change 1 Part Black 48729b Bar 1L with Clip Mechanical Claw, Cut Edges and Hole on Side {Extra to Regular} {match ID 0 to 21}
Comments from Submitter:
Part 48729b (inventory 437138) should not be extra, but a counterpart for the extra 48729 (inventory ID 390008). I know there are problems setting match ID for extras/counterparts (I'm told they are the same as existing, although they're not), so I'm temporarily changing both parts to regular to set Match ID 21 on them. Afterwards, please change inventory ID 390008 to extra and 437138 to counterpart. Thanks.
|
The claw is an extra alternate part, not a counterpart. The counterparts section
should not be used to show alternate parts or extras of alternate parts (although
it may have been in some inventories).
The problem with extra alternate parts, as you can see, is that the inventory
system is not designed to accurately reflect them in an easily-comprehended way.
In reality, this part is legitimately an extra part and either variant may be
included in a set depending on when it was manufactured. Therefore, the inventory
as it stands is not technically inaccurate - just confusing.
Not sure there's any easier way to reflect this reality in the inventory,
although a number of different solutions have been adopted at various times by
various administrators. If you have suggestions, please share them, but I don't
really agree with using the Counterparts section to show extras.
Since you've brought it up, I'll take a hard look at the situation and
attempt to come up with a written policy.
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | normann1974 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 14:50 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Change 1 Part Black 48729 Bar 1L with Clip Mechanical Claw {Extra to Regular} {match ID 0 to 21}
* Change 1 Part Black 48729b Bar 1L with Clip Mechanical Claw, Cut Edges and Hole on Side {Extra to Regular} {match ID 0 to 21}
Comments from Submitter:
Part 48729b (inventory 437138) should not be extra, but a counterpart for the extra 48729 (inventory ID 390008). I know there are problems setting match ID for extras/counterparts (I'm told they are the same as existing, although they're not), so I'm temporarily changing both parts to regular to set Match ID 21 on them. Afterwards, please change inventory ID 390008 to extra and 437138 to counterpart. Thanks.
|
The claw is an extra alternate part, not a counterpart. The counterparts section
should not be used to show alternate parts or extras of alternate parts (although
it may have been in some inventories).
The problem with extra alternate parts, as you can see, is that the inventory
system is not designed to accurately reflect them in an easily-comprehended way.
In reality, this part is legitimately an extra part and either variant may be
included in a set depending on when it was manufactured. Therefore, the inventory
as it stands is not technically inaccurate - just confusing.
Not sure there's any easier way to reflect this reality in the inventory,
although a number of different solutions have been adopted at various times by
various administrators. If you have suggestions, please share them, but I don't
really agree with using the Counterparts section to show extras.
Since you've brought it up, I'll take a hard look at the situation and
attempt to come up with a written policy.
|
I'm pretty sure that I've previously discussed this and the decision
was made that 2 counterparts should be made, one for the regulars and one for
the the extras, and the issue was previously been resolved by temporarily making
the extra parts regulars so that match ID could be set on them and then changing
them back again. I think that's what I tried to accomplish here.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | normann1974 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 14:50 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| | | I'm pretty sure that I've previously discussed this and the decision
was made that 2 counterparts should be made, one for the regulars and one for
the the extras, and the issue was previously been resolved by temporarily making
the extra parts regulars so that match ID could be set on them and then changing
them back again. I think that's what I tried to accomplish here.
|
Example:
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=240574
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | normann1974 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 15:02 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | | | I'm pretty sure that I've previously discussed this and the decision
was made that 2 counterparts should be made, one for the regulars and one for
the the extras, and the issue was previously been resolved by temporarily making
the extra parts regulars so that match ID could be set on them and then changing
them back again. I think that's what I tried to accomplish here.
|
Example:
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=240574
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Based on this discussion:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1102521
/Jan
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | normann1974 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 14:53 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| BTW - This inventory is also a mess regarding this situation. The counterparts
sections reference match IDs that are not defined in neither regulars or extras.
I'd like to change this the same way, but I await conclusion of the current
case.
/Jan
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 12:57 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | BTW - This inventory is also a mess regarding this situation. The counterparts
sections reference match IDs that are not defined in neither regulars or extras.
I'd like to change this the same way, but I await conclusion of the current
case.
/Jan
|
About this inventory I must think about it to find best soultion. Here you have
a slightly different situation because you have match IDs witch aren't connected
to regular section. They are connected to minifigs and when you break minifigs
to parts you don't have still match ID's in regular section because you
can't have alternates in the minifigs and can't add match IDs to parts
wich are in the minifigs. Minifigs can't have alternates. So we have alternates
with match ID without connection 1 and 2.
And I agree there a little mess here.
My proposition is to make a notes in the minifigs that they can be with part
48729 or 48729b. So treat them as head stud variants  notes would look
like for example in this minifig:
[m=sw306]
currently we have many minifigs with note about head stud variant.
btw I also make similar note that part can be different in this assembly:
. Parts also can't have altarnates in inventories.
These part variants like 48729 and 48729b don't deserve creation of this
minifigs variant I think.
Then we could connected match ID from these alternates in this set inventory
with extras. Minifigs would have notes.
What do you think about this soultion?
Robert what do you think?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 17:28 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, Hygrotus writes:
| | Robert what do you think?
|
Well, first I think that the Cool Ranch Doritos brand tortilla chips that I just
finished eating were pretty good. I also think that we could, generally speaking,
probably get by with a little less warfare in the world.
But you were speaking of your solution, I believe. I think it's a fine idea
and I like it. I'll put together some words describing it and update the
RECA (or REAA) page so that we can have some concrete guidelines.
And when I say concrete, I'm not using the word to mean that our guidelines
are constructed from a composite material consisting of fine and coarse aggregate
bonded together with a fluid cement that hardens over time. I'm just sayin'
like they're laid out there for everyone to see so that there's no confusion
on anyone's part.
And when I say part, I'm not speaking of the word in the sense that any of
us are actors performing roles in a screenplay or a live dramatic presentation
of a - but never mind, I think I may be rambling again.
And when I say rambling
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 18:11 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, Hygrotus writes:
| | Robert what do you think?
|
Well, first I think that the Cool Ranch Doritos brand tortilla chips that I just
finished eating were pretty good. I also think that we could, generally speaking,
probably get by with a little less warfare in the world.
But you were speaking of your solution, I believe. I think it's a fine idea
and I like it. I'll put together some words describing it and update the
RECA (or REAA) page so that we can have some concrete guidelines.
And when I say concrete, I'm not using the word to mean that our guidelines
are constructed from a composite material consisting of fine and coarse aggregate
bonded together with a fluid cement that hardens over time. I'm just sayin'
like they're laid out there for everyone to see so that there's no confusion
on anyone's part.
And when I say part, I'm not speaking of the word in the sense that any of
us are actors performing roles in a screenplay or a live dramatic presentation
of a - but never mind, I think I may be rambling again.
And when I say rambling
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notes added to minifigs from this set.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 18:13 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | But you were speaking of your solution, I believe. I think it's a fine idea
and I like it. I'll put together some words describing it and update the
RECA (or REAA) page so that we can have some concrete guidelines.
|
Okay, I've updated the page. For the sake of consistency, I believe we should
include both the regular alternates and extra alternates in the Alternate Items
section - even for items which appear in assemblies.
This is because someday we will be moving all minifigures and other assemblies
and the Alternate Items section will be ready for them when that happens. Also,
as I said, this is a more accurate solution and will be consistent with the way
it is done in sets for which we can actually match the alternates with the regulars
AND extras.
This, BTW, is confusing stuff to keep straight enough to even talk about. I
updated the Assassin Droids set to show what I'm talking about, though.
Is that acceptable or do you think a different way would be better?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 18:27 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | But you were speaking of your solution, I believe. I think it's a fine idea
and I like it. I'll put together some words describing it and update the
RECA (or REAA) page so that we can have some concrete guidelines.
|
Okay, I've updated the page. For the sake of consistency, I believe we should
include both the regular alternates and extra alternates in the Alternate Items
section - even for items which appear in assemblies.
This is because someday we will be moving all minifigures and other assemblies
and the Alternate Items section will be ready for them when that happens. Also,
as I said, this is a more accurate solution and will be consistent with the way
it is done in sets for which we can actually match the alternates with the regulars
AND extras.
This, BTW, is confusing stuff to keep straight enough to even talk about. I
updated the Assassin Droids set to show what I'm talking about, though.
Is that acceptable or do you think a different way would be better?
|
Ok I see now. You're right it is better now. But maybe there should be a
note for now in this set inventory that match ID 4 and 5 are for parts in minifigs?
Somebody could be wonder seeing this without knowledge why it was done like this.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 18:34 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, Hygrotus writes:
| | Ok I see now. You're right it is better now. But maybe there should be a
note for now in this set inventory that match ID 4 and 5 are for parts in minifigs?
Somebody could be wonder seeing this without knowledge why it was done like this.
|
I've got no problem with that on principle, but I do think we should keep
inventory notes from running rampant. How many sets would this affect, meaning
how many inventory notes will we need to add?
BTW, I just realized that we could include all the A or B versions of heads in
set inventories as alternates if we wanted to. We'll have to do it anyway
once the minifigure assemblies are moved and the situation is really no different
than the mechanical clip in the assassin droids. If we start adding the heads,
then will we add inventory notes for all of those sets? And if so, then why
haven't we already done it since the figures themselves have inventory notes?
The only problem is that older sets may someday needs new catalog entries which
have the head attached to the torsos since they came this way in sets. For those
it probably wouldn't work.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 18:41 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | BTW, I just realized that we could include all the A or B versions of heads in
set inventories as alternates if we wanted to.
|
Sorry, B and C versions. And even some of the B versions came in a torso/head
assembly, so we couldn't do some of those. I believe by the time the recessed
stud heads came out TLG was including them in sets separately from the torso
assembly, so I imagine most C-style heads could be included in inventories as
alternates where appropriate.
If you want to add notes to inventories, then it won't bother me. I would
rather wait and see how confusing it is to people first, though. If we get a
bunch of questions over it, then we could add the notes. That's my take.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2018 03:35 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | BTW, I just realized that we could include all the A or B versions of heads in
set inventories as alternates if we wanted to.
|
Sorry, B and C versions. And even some of the B versions came in a torso/head
assembly, so we couldn't do some of those. I believe by the time the recessed
stud heads came out TLG was including them in sets separately from the torso
assembly, so I imagine most C-style heads could be included in inventories as
alternates where appropriate.
If you want to add notes to inventories, then it won't bother me. I would
rather wait and see how confusing it is to people first, though. If we get a
bunch of questions over it, then we could add the notes. That's my take.
|
I like this idea I am in favor.
Then many head currently don't connetcted to any inventory would find their
place
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogListOld.asp?itemYear=0&catString=238&itemBrand=1000&catType=P
and maybe there will be less question about that for example:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1104398
I think it will be quite easy to add automatically head variant to inventory
of set with unique minifig with unique head for this particular set, like mentioned
above
[m=sw306] only one set and has head variant confirmed to appear.
It will be harder and quite tricky with heads wihich have stud variant and come
in diffrent minifigs in different sets like this one:
- 7 minifigs in 7 sets (years 2006-2015)
- 1 minifig in 1 set
So some sets with "b" variant would not have "c" variant in their inventory as
alternate (and can't have) probably these older ones. But for example in
this case there is this one [m=sw395] which is in one set only and has head variant
confirmed to appear.
Check also here http://minifigs.nl/research.html
The heads variants could then be added to sets only after confirmation from the
submiters in which sets they have found this type of head. So then normal inventory
change request should be submitted with proof.
Let's do it experimentaly with one and see if anyone is against it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2018 03:00 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, Hygrotus writes:
| | Ok I see now. You're right it is better now. But maybe there should be a
note for now in this set inventory that match ID 4 and 5 are for parts in minifigs?
Somebody could be wonder seeing this without knowledge why it was done like this.
|
I've got no problem with that on principle, but I do think we should keep
inventory notes from running rampant. How many sets would this affect, meaning
how many inventory notes will we need to add?
BTW, I just realized that we could include all the A or B versions of heads in
set inventories as alternates if we wanted to. We'll have to do it anyway
once the minifigure assemblies are moved and the situation is really no different
than the mechanical clip in the assassin droids. If we start adding the heads,
then will we add inventory notes for all of those sets? And if so, then why
haven't we already done it since the figures themselves have inventory notes?
The only problem is that older sets may someday needs new catalog entries which
have the head attached to the torsos since they came this way in sets. For those
it probably wouldn't work.
|
OK I didn't notice hep change till today morning It is ok now it is mentioned
there so the note isn't needed.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 15:03 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | I'm pretty sure that I've previously discussed this and the decision
was made that 2 counterparts should be made, one for the regulars and one for
the the extras
|
In the example you gave two entries were created in the Alternate Items
section, not in the Counterparts section. Counterparts are defined differently
than extra or alternate parts, but I think I see what you're saying now.
| | BTW - This inventory is also a mess regarding this situation. The counterparts
sections reference match IDs that are not defined in neither regulars or extras.
|
| | I'd like to change this the same way, but I await conclusion of the current case.
|
Let me discuss this with Marek and get a written policy in place first, please.
Once we do get something together, you'll find it here along with the definitions
of regulars, extras, counterparts, and alternates:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1562
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | normann1974 | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2018 16:07 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | I'm pretty sure that I've previously discussed this and the decision
was made that 2 counterparts should be made, one for the regulars and one for
the the extras
|
In the example you gave two entries were created in the Alternate Items
section, not in the Counterparts section. Counterparts are defined differently
than extra or alternate parts, but I think I see what you're saying now.
| | BTW - This inventory is also a mess regarding this situation. The counterparts
sections reference match IDs that are not defined in neither regulars or extras.
|
| | I'd like to change this the same way, but I await conclusion of the current case.
|
Let me discuss this with Marek and get a written policy in place first, please.
Once we do get something together, you'll find it here along with the definitions
of regulars, extras, counterparts, and alternates:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1562
|
Sorry. My brain hurts after a long day sorting sets. When I was talking about
counterparts, I was really talking about alternates (it's not the first time
I have confused the two). I think my inventory request is still what I want,
it's what happens in step two that is different (chance "counterpart" to
"alternate" in my comment).
/Jan
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 12:41 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, normann1974 writes:
| | I'm pretty sure that I've previously discussed this and the decision
was made that 2 counterparts should be made, one for the regulars and one for
the the extras
|
In the example you gave two entries were created in the Alternate Items
section, not in the Counterparts section. Counterparts are defined differently
than extra or alternate parts, but I think I see what you're saying now.
| | BTW - This inventory is also a mess regarding this situation. The counterparts
sections reference match IDs that are not defined in neither regulars or extras.
|
| | I'd like to change this the same way, but I await conclusion of the current case.
|
Let me discuss this with Marek and get a written policy in place first, please.
Once we do get something together, you'll find it here along with the definitions
of regulars, extras, counterparts, and alternates:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1562
|
Sorry. My brain hurts after a long day sorting sets. When I was talking about
counterparts, I was really talking about alternates (it's not the first time
I have confused the two). I think my inventory request is still what I want,
it's what happens in step two that is different (chance "counterpart" to
"alternate" in my comment).
/Jan
|
I corrected this inventory to resolve this issue similar to examples which you
given in this thread.
You should only move "b" varian from Extras to alternate and then assign new
match ID to extra and the doubled variant in the altarnate section.
So finally situation looks like this you have 48729 in regular part and the same
variant as extra. In alternate section you have doubled 48729b one is matched
witch variant in regular section and one in extra section. This is the best solustion
for now for alternate extras in my opinion.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | normann1974 | | Posted: | Oct 16, 2018 19:28 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 10199-1 | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
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| | | I corrected this inventory to resolve this issue similar to examples which you
given in this thread.
You should only move "b" varian from Extras to alternate and then assign new
match ID to extra and the doubled variant in the altarnate section.
So finally situation looks like this you have 48729 in regular part and the same
variant as extra. In alternate section you have doubled 48729b one is matched
witch variant in regular section and one in extra section. This is the best solustion
for now for alternate extras in my opinion.
|
Thanks for fixing this. The inventory now look as I intended to make it look,
although my communication was confusing. The goal was to have 1 extra bar in
the set instead of 2 (different) bars like it was before.
/Jan
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Denmark
USA, Oklahoma
Poland, w. Wielkopolskie
