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| | | Author: | Jamesf077  | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 01:02 | | Subject: | Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 269 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Discarded | |
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| I know bricklink admin investigate suspect scam report but it can take time to
get round to it and by then a number of people may have fallen foul of the dirty
little theives.
How about giving some power to the community who are collectively online 24 hours
a day across the globe and spotting these immediately.
Three seperate suspect scam reports from seperate members and the store is automaticaly
suspended until admin have time to check it out. The rule could be a report has
to come from established users with a minimum positive feeback score.
Say for example, when you have over 100 feedback you are allowed access to a
'scam
report' button. I'm sure a simple programme could be installed to facilitate
this.
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| | | | | Author: | IndoorJungle | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 01:26 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Jamesf077 writes:
| | I know bricklink admin investigate suspect scam report but it can take time to
get round to it and by then a number of people may have fallen foul of the dirty
little theives.
How about giving some power to the community who are collectively online 24 hours
a day across the globe and spotting these immediately.
Three seperate suspect scam reports from seperate members and the store is automaticaly
suspended until admin have time to check it out. The rule could be a report has
to come from established users with a minimum positive feeback score.
Say for example, when you have over 100 feedback you are allowed access to a
'scam
report' button. I'm sure a simple programme could be installed to facilitate
this.
|
That's.... Actually a good idea. It would have to be a minimum of five reports
within say one week before it gets shut down (and it resets every week). Otherwise
sellers or members who don't like each other would just spam each others
stores with reports and keep them closed.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Jamesf077 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 01:41 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | That's.... Actually a good idea. It would have to be a minimum of five reports
within say one week before it gets shut down (and it resets every week). Otherwise
sellers or members who don't like each other would just spam each others
stores with reports and keep them closed.
|
I would suggest that once a store has been checked out by the bricklnk admin
it should be exempt from further automatic suspensions to prevent rival stores
starting a war. And only apply to zero feedback stores.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | j7r7o7c7k7 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 02:17 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Jamesf077 writes:
| | | | That's.... Actually a good idea. It would have to be a minimum of five reports
within say one week before it gets shut down (and it resets every week). Otherwise
sellers or members who don't like each other would just spam each others
stores with reports and keep them closed.
|
I would suggest that once a store has been checked out by the bricklnk admin
it should be exempt from further automatic suspensions to prevent rival stores
starting a war. And only apply to zero feedback stores.
|
There are sellers on ebay that do this. They set up account sell a bunch of $1
free shipping items, build up 100 feedback or so, then unload all the really
big items. Its a much sneakier scam. Give them the trust of a decent feedback
score and boom. So they could do the same on here. Actually sell a couple cheap
items and then drop the high $ stuff. Just so they could get past that 1 or 2
feedback rule.
Honestly anything put in place someone will find a way around it. But the main
key is to slow it way down. 75% stop rate would be awesome. Even if every idea
I have ever read about on here were all in place right now, there would still
be people getting around all of them. Its just a fact. Where there is a honest
way to make some money (big or small), just know the bad guys are not far behind.
They can sniff it out. And most times bad guys are one step ahead. You fix a
hole in the fence, they tunnel under the fence, you build it deep in the ground,
they get a ladder and climb over. But you don't just leave the hole and think
they will stop coming though. So something needs to start being put in place
to at least really slow them down, before this place becomes like a mine field.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tomletsinger | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 02:47 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| When an order is placed, the ordered inventory is removed from the store's
stock, right? What's to stop us from just "ordering" all of the underpriced
high value sets that these zero feedback new sellers list? They won't bother
going through the NPB process because it's a pain and they just want a quick
buck. If this happens to a scammer repeatedly, they will move their operation
somewhere else.
In Suggestions, j7r7o7c7k7 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jamesf077 writes:
| | | | That's.... Actually a good idea. It would have to be a minimum of five reports
within say one week before it gets shut down (and it resets every week). Otherwise
sellers or members who don't like each other would just spam each others
stores with reports and keep them closed.
|
I would suggest that once a store has been checked out by the bricklnk admin
it should be exempt from further automatic suspensions to prevent rival stores
starting a war. And only apply to zero feedback stores.
|
There are sellers on ebay that do this. They set up account sell a bunch of $1
free shipping items, build up 100 feedback or so, then unload all the really
big items. Its a much sneakier scam. Give them the trust of a decent feedback
score and boom. So they could do the same on here. Actually sell a couple cheap
items and then drop the high $ stuff. Just so they could get past that 1 or 2
feedback rule.
Honestly anything put in place someone will find a way around it. But the main
key is to slow it way down. 75% stop rate would be awesome. Even if every idea
I have ever read about on here were all in place right now, there would still
be people getting around all of them. Its just a fact. Where there is a honest
way to make some money (big or small), just know the bad guys are not far behind.
They can sniff it out. And most times bad guys are one step ahead. You fix a
hole in the fence, they tunnel under the fence, you build it deep in the ground,
they get a ladder and climb over. But you don't just leave the hole and think
they will stop coming though. So something needs to start being put in place
to at least really slow them down, before this place becomes like a mine field.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb316892 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 02:51 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| What happens if they do go through with the NPB?  Do you pay or get an NPB
on your record? Sure it is not likely they will do one but . . . .
In Suggestions, tomletsinger writes:
| | When an order is placed, the ordered inventory is removed from the store's
stock, right? What's to stop us from just "ordering" all of the underpriced
high value sets that these zero feedback new sellers list? They won't bother
going through the NPB process because it's a pain and they just want a quick
buck. If this happens to a scammer repeatedly, they will move their operation
somewhere else.
In Suggestions, j7r7o7c7k7 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jamesf077 writes:
| | | | That's.... Actually a good idea. It would have to be a minimum of five reports
within say one week before it gets shut down (and it resets every week). Otherwise
sellers or members who don't like each other would just spam each others
stores with reports and keep them closed.
|
I would suggest that once a store has been checked out by the bricklnk admin
it should be exempt from further automatic suspensions to prevent rival stores
starting a war. And only apply to zero feedback stores.
|
There are sellers on ebay that do this. They set up account sell a bunch of $1
free shipping items, build up 100 feedback or so, then unload all the really
big items. Its a much sneakier scam. Give them the trust of a decent feedback
score and boom. So they could do the same on here. Actually sell a couple cheap
items and then drop the high $ stuff. Just so they could get past that 1 or 2
feedback rule.
Honestly anything put in place someone will find a way around it. But the main
key is to slow it way down. 75% stop rate would be awesome. Even if every idea
I have ever read about on here were all in place right now, there would still
be people getting around all of them. Its just a fact. Where there is a honest
way to make some money (big or small), just know the bad guys are not far behind.
They can sniff it out. And most times bad guys are one step ahead. You fix a
hole in the fence, they tunnel under the fence, you build it deep in the ground,
they get a ladder and climb over. But you don't just leave the hole and think
they will stop coming though. So something needs to start being put in place
to at least really slow them down, before this place becomes like a mine field.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tomletsinger | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 03:17 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Fight fire with fire? Make a dummy account for just this purpose?
In Suggestions, mmookk61 writes:
| | What happens if they do go through with the NPB? Do you pay or get an NPB
on your record? Sure it is not likely they will do one but . . . .
In Suggestions, tomletsinger writes:
| | When an order is placed, the ordered inventory is removed from the store's
stock, right? What's to stop us from just "ordering" all of the underpriced
high value sets that these zero feedback new sellers list? They won't bother
going through the NPB process because it's a pain and they just want a quick
buck. If this happens to a scammer repeatedly, they will move their operation
somewhere else.
In Suggestions, j7r7o7c7k7 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jamesf077 writes:
| | | | That's.... Actually a good idea. It would have to be a minimum of five reports
within say one week before it gets shut down (and it resets every week). Otherwise
sellers or members who don't like each other would just spam each others
stores with reports and keep them closed.
|
I would suggest that once a store has been checked out by the bricklnk admin
it should be exempt from further automatic suspensions to prevent rival stores
starting a war. And only apply to zero feedback stores.
|
There are sellers on ebay that do this. They set up account sell a bunch of $1
free shipping items, build up 100 feedback or so, then unload all the really
big items. Its a much sneakier scam. Give them the trust of a decent feedback
score and boom. So they could do the same on here. Actually sell a couple cheap
items and then drop the high $ stuff. Just so they could get past that 1 or 2
feedback rule.
Honestly anything put in place someone will find a way around it. But the main
key is to slow it way down. 75% stop rate would be awesome. Even if every idea
I have ever read about on here were all in place right now, there would still
be people getting around all of them. Its just a fact. Where there is a honest
way to make some money (big or small), just know the bad guys are not far behind.
They can sniff it out. And most times bad guys are one step ahead. You fix a
hole in the fence, they tunnel under the fence, you build it deep in the ground,
they get a ladder and climb over. But you don't just leave the hole and think
they will stop coming though. So something needs to start being put in place
to at least really slow them down, before this place becomes like a mine field.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb316892 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 03:23 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Ahhhh. Shoot, I didn't think about that, having more than one Bricklink
account. How many can we have?
In Suggestions, tomletsinger writes:
| | Fight fire with fire? Make a dummy account for just this purpose?
In Suggestions, mmookk61 writes:
| | What happens if they do go through with the NPB? Do you pay or get an NPB
on your record? Sure it is not likely they will do one but . . . .
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 04:51 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mmookk61 writes:
| | Ahhhh. Shoot, I didn't think about that, having more than one Bricklink
account. How many can we have?
In Suggestions, tomletsinger writes:
| | Fight fire with fire? Make a dummy account for just this purpose?
In Suggestions, mmookk61 writes:
| | What happens if they do go through with the NPB? Do you pay or get an NPB
on your record? Sure it is not likely they will do one but . . . .
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Just 1!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stuart9 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 06:24 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| There are at least two scammers that come back day after day, one of them can
come back two or three times a day.
They get a couple of big orders before they are shut down, so they believe it's
worth the effort.
A store was reported by at least two people, one hours ago and once a short time
ago, they had two orders at that stage ( second report ) and were listed as 1
favourite but it's still open.
This is one of the repeat scammers.
In Suggestions, tomletsinger writes:
| | When an order is placed, the ordered inventory is removed from the store's
stock, right? What's to stop us from just "ordering" all of the underpriced
high value sets that these zero feedback new sellers list? They won't bother
going through the NPB process because it's a pain and they just want a quick
buck. If this happens to a scammer repeatedly, they will move their operation
somewhere else.
In Suggestions, j7r7o7c7k7 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jamesf077 writes:
| | | | That's.... Actually a good idea. It would have to be a minimum of five reports
within say one week before it gets shut down (and it resets every week). Otherwise
sellers or members who don't like each other would just spam each others
stores with reports and keep them closed.
|
I would suggest that once a store has been checked out by the bricklnk admin
it should be exempt from further automatic suspensions to prevent rival stores
starting a war. And only apply to zero feedback stores.
|
There are sellers on ebay that do this. They set up account sell a bunch of $1
free shipping items, build up 100 feedback or so, then unload all the really
big items. Its a much sneakier scam. Give them the trust of a decent feedback
score and boom. So they could do the same on here. Actually sell a couple cheap
items and then drop the high $ stuff. Just so they could get past that 1 or 2
feedback rule.
Honestly anything put in place someone will find a way around it. But the main
key is to slow it way down. 75% stop rate would be awesome. Even if every idea
I have ever read about on here were all in place right now, there would still
be people getting around all of them. Its just a fact. Where there is a honest
way to make some money (big or small), just know the bad guys are not far behind.
They can sniff it out. And most times bad guys are one step ahead. You fix a
hole in the fence, they tunnel under the fence, you build it deep in the ground,
they get a ladder and climb over. But you don't just leave the hole and think
they will stop coming though. So something needs to start being put in place
to at least really slow them down, before this place becomes like a mine field.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jonwil | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 07:40 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Maybe Bricklink can do what eBay has started doing and require new sellers who
are selling things in categories with high rates of scammers to go through escrow
of some sort until they have received enough positive feedback and prove themselves
as legit (I dont know exactly how the eBay system works, I just know they introduced
one)
Yes a scammer can do a bunch of small legit transactions for a while until they
get to the point where they aren't restricted anymore and can then unload
the dodgy stuff but the scammers will be reluctant to put in the effort if they
can scam (LEGO or otherwise) on some other marketplace with less effort.
Also if BL isn't already doing it, they should record details of scammers
(email address, physical address and other relavent data) and if someone registers
with those same details again, detect it and block things pending examination
by an admin.
Yes scammers can change that information each time they register but its just
that much more effort for them to do so (and just that much more likely they
will go elsewhere)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jonwil | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 07:49 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Oh yeah another idea (based on rules I have seen for sellers in a non-LEGO forum
I frequent) could be a requirement that if you want to sell certain items (i.e.
those commonly targeted by the scammers) you have to upload a picture showing
your item plus your username proving you actually have the item in your possession.
Wouldn't apply to every item, just to those items that are the most common
targets for the scammers.
If you legitimately own a 10179 UCS Falcon, there should be no problems spending
a little bit of time to take a photo with the UCS Falcon box and a piece of paper
showing your username or something, just to prove you actually own the item.
The number of sets targeted by the scammers is fairly limited anyway (Star Wars
UCS, modulars, a few other rare/valuable items) so its not likely to be a huge
impost on most sellers.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 11:24 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, jonwil writes:
| | Oh yeah another idea (based on rules I have seen for sellers in a non-LEGO forum
I frequent) could be a requirement that if you want to sell certain items (i.e.
those commonly targeted by the scammers) you have to upload a picture showing
your item plus your username proving you actually have the item in your possession.
Wouldn't apply to every item, just to those items that are the most common
targets for the scammers.
If you legitimately own a 10179 UCS Falcon, there should be no problems spending
a little bit of time to take a photo with the UCS Falcon box and a piece of paper
showing your username or something, just to prove you actually own the item.
The number of sets targeted by the scammers is fairly limited anyway (Star Wars
UCS, modulars, a few other rare/valuable items) so its not likely to be a huge
impost on most sellers.
|
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
For every measure put in place, there will always be an effot to get around it
What about people that have one copy of one of these expensive sets, takes a
picture and sells it and simply doesn't send it.
I like the idea of an escrow account, but playing devil's advocate
1) would bricklink be able to do this (are there legal obsticles,
2) would bricklink want to do this.. Remember, of all the transactions that
happen, a very very very low % would be 'scammers'
3) would this disuade legitimate sellers from coming on because they didn't
read any fine print or weren't willing to go through an escrow service.
To bricklink, what would cost more, losing legit sellers who are impatient vs
a low % of people that scamming the system.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 13:13 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I prefer the route of buyers should show common sense.
Education of buyers is much better fraud prevention than trying to remove scammers.
For every hurdle there is a way around it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 13:15 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | I prefer the route of buyers should show common sense.
Education of buyers is much better fraud prevention than trying to remove scammers.
For every hurdle there is a way around it.
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I'm with you on that one.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Jamesf077 | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 13:32 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | I prefer the route of buyers should show common sense.
Education of buyers is much better fraud prevention than trying to remove scammers.
For every hurdle there is a way around it.
|
I've already suggested that Bricklink put a 'safe buying guide' on
the login page but that got shot down and ignored as well. I'm guessing that
the mention of scammers has very negative conitations for the site and off putting
for potential new members.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 14:03 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Jamesf077 writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | I prefer the route of buyers should show common sense.
Education of buyers is much better fraud prevention than trying to remove scammers.
For every hurdle there is a way around it.
|
I've already suggested that Bricklink put a 'safe buying guide' on
the login page but that got shot down and ignored as well. I'm guessing that
the mention of scammers has very negative conitations for the site and off putting
for potential new members.
|
The people who would need to read it wouldn't read it. We are trying to protect
people who naively jump at the chance to send unsecured payments to strangers
who have listed items online at too-good-to-be-true prices. That is not the type
of person to click on a "safe buying guide" link.
Until BL add instant payment (which should then be required to be Paypal Onsite
for new sellers), the buyer should receive an automated email and BL essage when
a purchase is made, as I described here: http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1024951
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | The people who would need to read it wouldn't read it. We are trying to protect
people who naively jump at the chance to send unsecured payments to strangers
who have listed items online at too-good-to-be-true prices.
|
Quite right: too many people are just naive in those regards...
I recently got a mail that I considered 'strange', after reading about
10 words I dropped it in the trash can.
2 days later the receivers have been notified it was a 'test' and the
results where this:
Out of near 6000 receivers, 668 people (so over 10%) tought they could actually
'cash in' a bit of money for free by replying to the mail, about 2% actually
even provided 'personal details' in the reply.
Crazy...
Compare this to a website like BL with 613000 registered users, and you have
12260 users who might actually fall for such crap. Even if the amount of 'active
users' is only 20% of the registered members (so 122600) there is still a
potential of 2450 members who'd jump right in on offers that are 'too
good to be true'.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2017 14:52 | | Subject: | Re: Another anti-scam idea | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | […]
there is still a
potential of 2450 members who'd jump right in on offers that are 'too
good to be true'.
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Hmm, I may have to rethink my career plans….
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United Kingdom, Scotland
USA, California
Canada, British Columbia
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
United Kingdom, England
Australia, Queensland
Belgium, Flemish Brabant
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine