|
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| | | Author: | cosmicray  | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 11:26 | | Subject: | Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 470 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Discarded | |
|
| … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 11:35 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 179 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
|
No,it's too subjective.
| | I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:42 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 116 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
|
No,it's too subjective.
|
Actually, the current system is even more subjective. It requires the person
leaving FB to choose between 3 very specific categories. If the member is even
the slightest bit twitched, they are going to step down, from Green to Yellow.
I would much see a slight twitch move the needle from 100 to 95, than from 100
to 50.
Ray
|
|
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| | | | | Author: | dpumpkin | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 12:02 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 152 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
I would like to see more space available if I want to provide more details in
my feedback.
Numerical perimeters doesn't give me much info.
Darlene
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| | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 12:03 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 190 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
Why don't do away with Lego and replace it with digital files that we can
just email to each other and 3D print? Shipping bricks is surely old-fashioned
from a time long before electronic media.
Hmmm, in a world where everything seems to change every 30 secs it is kind of
nice to have some things that remain familiar.
That was meant to be a little tongue in cheek but I would personally like to
keep some of the old BL and changing FB after 16 years seems like making everyone
newbies again. I actually like what they have done in the stores highlighting
the last 6 months FB without scrapping the old system, maybe that provides a
platform for future enhancements but I would not vote for a numerical rating
system, those are useless elsewhere.. someone takes a dislike to one aspect of
something and rates everything as -50 out of spite. Overall I'd like to see
some stability before any more changes.
A simple extension of the field lengths might give a lot of bang for the buck.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 12:15 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 204 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | Hmmm, in a world where everything seems to change every 30 secs it is kind of
nice to have some things that remain familiar.
I would personally like to
keep some of the old BL and changing FB after 16 years seems like making everyone
newbies again.
A simple extension of the field lengths might give a lot of bang for the buck.
Robert
|
+1. As a buyer, 99% of the time I have absolutely no problem relying on the
BL system to help me evaluate risk and determine where to shop. Feedback is
very helpful to me not only as a buyer, but when I was a seller as well. Despite
the vocal tiny minority who complain, BL's feedback is fine and needs no
fundamental changing. It isn't broke, so it needs no fixing.
Robert makes an excellent point about changing a system that has been used for
16 years and how any such change could negatively and unfairly affect the tens
of thousands of BL members who have already earned more than a few feedback.
But I do like the idea of extending the comments fields, mainly for non-positive
feedback.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | jedvii | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 12:57 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 169 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | Hmmm, in a world where everything seems to change every 30 secs it is kind of
nice to have some things that remain familiar.
I would personally like to
keep some of the old BL and changing FB after 16 years seems like making everyone
newbies again.
A simple extension of the field lengths might give a lot of bang for the buck.
Robert
|
+1. As a buyer, 99% of the time I have absolutely no problem relying on the
BL system to help me evaluate risk and determine where to shop. Feedback is
very helpful to me not only as a buyer, but when I was a seller as well. Despite
the vocal tiny minority who complain, BL's feedback is fine and needs no
fundamental changing. It isn't broke, so it needs no fixing.
Robert makes an excellent point about changing a system that has been used for
16 years and how any such change could negatively and unfairly affect the tens
of thousands of BL members who have already earned more than a few feedback.
But I do like the idea of extending the comments fields, mainly for non-positive
feedback.
Thor
|
Might be helpful if there was a 5 start rating on Certain aspects like shipping,
separation of variants, accuracy of part count, etc
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | estaswick | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 14:17 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 138 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| It would be helpful IF:
Everyone had the same standards
and
Everyone filled it out seriously.
In reality I think both those are false assumptions
My 5 might be your 3.
I believe most people would probably all 5's, all zeros, all 3s, or Christmas
tree it for no good reason. If they bother to rate at all.
In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | Hmmm, in a world where everything seems to change every 30 secs it is kind of
nice to have some things that remain familiar.
I would personally like to
keep some of the old BL and changing FB after 16 years seems like making everyone
newbies again.
A simple extension of the field lengths might give a lot of bang for the buck.
Robert
|
+1. As a buyer, 99% of the time I have absolutely no problem relying on the
BL system to help me evaluate risk and determine where to shop. Feedback is
very helpful to me not only as a buyer, but when I was a seller as well. Despite
the vocal tiny minority who complain, BL's feedback is fine and needs no
fundamental changing. It isn't broke, so it needs no fixing.
Robert makes an excellent point about changing a system that has been used for
16 years and how any such change could negatively and unfairly affect the tens
of thousands of BL members who have already earned more than a few feedback.
But I do like the idea of extending the comments fields, mainly for non-positive
feedback.
Thor
|
Might be helpful if there was a 5 start rating on Certain aspects like shipping,
separation of variants, accuracy of part count, etc
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:24 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 137 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | Hmmm, in a world where everything seems to change every 30 secs it is kind of
nice to have some things that remain familiar.
I would personally like to
keep some of the old BL and changing FB after 16 years seems like making everyone
newbies again.
A simple extension of the field lengths might give a lot of bang for the buck.
Robert
|
+1. As a buyer, 99% of the time I have absolutely no problem relying on the
BL system to help me evaluate risk and determine where to shop. Feedback is
very helpful to me not only as a buyer, but when I was a seller as well. Despite
the vocal tiny minority who complain, BL's feedback is fine and needs no
fundamental changing. It isn't broke, so it needs no fixing.
Robert makes an excellent point about changing a system that has been used for
16 years and how any such change could negatively and unfairly affect the tens
of thousands of BL members who have already earned more than a few feedback.
But I do like the idea of extending the comments fields, mainly for non-positive
feedback.
Thor
|
Might be helpful if there was a 5 start rating on Certain aspects like shipping,
separation of variants, accuracy of part count, etc.
|
So instead of one subjective 3-star system we should have three subjective 5-star
systems? And how do you propose to convert all the feedback previously earned
by members into this new system? For example, how would you convert my current
8,882 feedback score under this new system? After 13+ years on BrickLink, do
I start out again as a newbie?
Thor
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:49 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Feedback | | Viewed: | 122 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | So instead of one subjective 3-star system we should have three subjective 5-star
systems? And how do you propose to convert all the feedback previously earned
by members into this new system? For example, how would you convert my current
8,882 feedback score under this new system? After 13+ years on BrickLink, do
I start out again as a newbie?
|
You don't. You freeze it in place. Remember, BL is calculating an overall
number already. A new more representative number would feed into that calculation.
If you really liked the Green-Yellow-Red, I'm sure the devs could supply
you with a color scale representation for each possible value, so you would see
the colors fading from one to another instead of being stark sharp changes.
Ray
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jedvii | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 18:33 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 140 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | Hmmm, in a world where everything seems to change every 30 secs it is kind of
nice to have some things that remain familiar.
I would personally like to
keep some of the old BL and changing FB after 16 years seems like making everyone
newbies again.
A simple extension of the field lengths might give a lot of bang for the buck.
Robert
|
+1. As a buyer, 99% of the time I have absolutely no problem relying on the
BL system to help me evaluate risk and determine where to shop. Feedback is
very helpful to me not only as a buyer, but when I was a seller as well. Despite
the vocal tiny minority who complain, BL's feedback is fine and needs no
fundamental changing. It isn't broke, so it needs no fixing.
Robert makes an excellent point about changing a system that has been used for
16 years and how any such change could negatively and unfairly affect the tens
of thousands of BL members who have already earned more than a few feedback.
But I do like the idea of extending the comments fields, mainly for non-positive
feedback.
Thor
|
Might be helpful if there was a 5 start rating on Certain aspects like shipping,
separation of variants, accuracy of part count, etc.
|
So instead of one subjective 3-star system we should have three subjective 5-star
systems? And how do you propose to convert all the feedback previously earned
by members into this new system? For example, how would you convert my current
8,882 feedback score under this new system? After 13+ years on BrickLink, do
I start out again as a newbie?
Thor
|
I think the current feedback system should remain in place. There's too
much history in it both positive and negative. For a good seller/buyer like
yourself, that big number means something. And for those with significant negative
feedback, it shouldn't be removed.
What I was thinking was something more like eBay's secondary ratings. When
you buy from someone there, you can leave a general +/0/- feedback, but they
also ask you to rate other things by a 5 star method. Honestly, I don't
know exactly how it works. As a seller, I can see my overall scores. At one
point, they would take away top rated seller status if those numbers dipped too
low. I think they've decided to do away with that, but don't quote me
on it. All my numbers have been good enough, that I don't concern myself
with it. On the buyer's side, I've never looked at it. I don't
even know if it's prominently displayed, or where I'd look to find it.
But ultimately the feedback system is for the buyers. It's for the buyers
to have an understanding of the risk of buying from a seller. I kind of think
in that regard, the current system isn't the greatest. How many times are
we seeing people complain about a seller. Be it terrible accuracy in their count
or part ID, taking forever to send out a package, or never responding to emails.
As a seller, it really bothers me when I see people make these complaints on
reddit. Sure they might be people that never buy from me, but they are still
potential customers. AND there's plenty of people over there that might
consider using BL, but see the complaints and think it might not be for them.
There are countless things that Bricklink could do to help protect the buyers.
First off, any communication done about a problematic bricklink order should
be done in Bricklink. I should not be able to click "email userBOB" and it opens
up my email client. Bricklink admins should be able to read all communications
to be able to decide who is in the right. Also, it would be able to identify
when a buyer messages a selelr, and the seller never responds. They could somehow
add shipping tracking to their metrics. That way they can identify when packages
are sent out and delivered, not just when a tracking number is uploaded.
I think it would be great if they had a way to denote if a store is a top rated
seller (to steal eBay's terminology). Develop good metrics on it, not that
crap they have for being a featured seller. Does a buyer give a rat if a store
as a logo, or 4 featured items in their store? NO. Buy I guarantee a buyer
cares if a store takes a week to send out an order, or doesn't reply to messages,
has an obscene S&H fee, ships smokey lego, or doesn't know how to count.
(I'm looking at you QCBricks) Our current feedback doesn't address
that. How many people have a negative experience, and then don't leave ANY
feedback. That's not good. Future buyers then don't know about it.
if Bricklink came up with a decent criteria and a way to actually track it,
that could help buyers know who to buy from.
I got off track on this post, and have to get back to work, but I think the overall
message is still there.
-jed
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 23:26 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 142 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | Hmmm, in a world where everything seems to change every 30 secs it is kind of
nice to have some things that remain familiar.
I would personally like to
keep some of the old BL and changing FB after 16 years seems like making everyone
newbies again.
A simple extension of the field lengths might give a lot of bang for the buck.
Robert
|
+1. As a buyer, 99% of the time I have absolutely no problem relying on the
BL system to help me evaluate risk and determine where to shop. Feedback is
very helpful to me not only as a buyer, but when I was a seller as well. Despite
the vocal tiny minority who complain, BL's feedback is fine and needs no
fundamental changing. It isn't broke, so it needs no fixing.
Robert makes an excellent point about changing a system that has been used for
16 years and how any such change could negatively and unfairly affect the tens
of thousands of BL members who have already earned more than a few feedback.
But I do like the idea of extending the comments fields, mainly for non-positive
feedback.
Thor
|
Might be helpful if there was a 5 start rating on Certain aspects like shipping,
separation of variants, accuracy of part count, etc.
|
So instead of one subjective 3-star system we should have three subjective 5-star
systems? And how do you propose to convert all the feedback previously earned
by members into this new system? For example, how would you convert my current
8,882 feedback score under this new system? After 13+ years on BrickLink, do
I start out again as a newbie?
Thor
|
I think the current feedback system should remain in place. There's too
much history in it both positive and negative. For a good seller/buyer like
yourself, that big number means something. And for those with significant negative
feedback, it shouldn't be removed.
What I was thinking was something more like eBay's secondary ratings. When
you buy from someone there, you can leave a general +/0/- feedback, but they
also ask you to rate other things by a 5 star method. Honestly, I don't
know exactly how it works. As a seller, I can see my overall scores. At one
point, they would take away top rated seller status if those numbers dipped too
low. I think they've decided to do away with that, but don't quote me
on it. All my numbers have been good enough, that I don't concern myself
with it. On the buyer's side, I've never looked at it. I don't
even know if it's prominently displayed, or where I'd look to find it.
But ultimately the feedback system is for the buyers. It's for the buyers
to have an understanding of the risk of buying from a seller. I kind of think
in that regard, the current system isn't the greatest. How many times are
we seeing people complain about a seller. Be it terrible accuracy in their count
or part ID, taking forever to send out a package, or never responding to emails.
As a seller, it really bothers me when I see people make these complaints on
reddit. Sure they might be people that never buy from me, but they are still
potential customers. AND there's plenty of people over there that might
consider using BL, but see the complaints and think it might not be for them.
There are countless things that Bricklink could do to help protect the buyers.
First off, any communication done about a problematic bricklink order should
be done in Bricklink. I should not be able to click "email userBOB" and it opens
up my email client. Bricklink admins should be able to read all communications
to be able to decide who is in the right. Also, it would be able to identify
when a buyer messages a selelr, and the seller never responds. They could somehow
add shipping tracking to their metrics. That way they can identify when packages
are sent out and delivered, not just when a tracking number is uploaded.
I think it would be great if they had a way to denote if a store is a top rated
seller (to steal eBay's terminology). Develop good metrics on it, not that
crap they have for being a featured seller. Does a buyer give a rat if a store
as a logo, or 4 featured items in their store? NO. Buy I guarantee a buyer
cares if a store takes a week to send out an order, or doesn't reply to messages,
has an obscene S&H fee, ships smokey lego, or doesn't know how to count.
(I'm looking at you QCBricks)
|
What is that supposed to mean? We never took a week to ship, always replied
to messages, never had obscene S&H, never even had a staff member that was around
smoke let alone who was a smoker, and we knew how to count.
I also think we have only ordered from you, I'm not aware we ever sent you
an order.
Clarification?
Scott
| | Our current feedback doesn't address
that. How many people have a negative experience, and then don't leave ANY
feedback. That's not good. Future buyers then don't know about it.
if Bricklink came up with a decent criteria and a way to actually track it,
that could help buyers know who to buy from.
I got off track on this post, and have to get back to work, but I think the overall
message is still there.
-jed
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | amerryventure | | Posted: | Jul 16, 2016 02:49 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 110 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| |
I think it would be great if they had a way to denote if a store is a top rated
seller (to steal eBay's terminology). Develop good metrics on it, not that
crap they have for being a featured seller. Does a buyer give a rat if a store
as a logo, or 4 featured items in their store? NO. Buy I guarantee a buyer
cares if a store takes a week to send out an order, or doesn't reply to messages,
has an obscene S&H fee, ships smokey lego, or doesn't know how to count.
(I'm looking at you QCBricks)
|
What is that supposed to mean? We never took a week to ship, always replied
to messages, never had obscene S&H, never even had a staff member that was around
smoke let alone who was a smoker, and we knew how to count.
I also think we have only ordered from you, I'm not aware we ever sent you
an order.
Clarification?
|
Anyone who's received an order from QCBricks recently knows that you're
looking for sellers who ship clean, well packed, accurately counted Lego. I think
he's suggesting you would likely be in support of a feedback system that
gave you more information about the typical buying experience in advance since
you're doing a lot of buying lately.
Warm Regards,
Charles
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jedvii | | Posted: | Jul 16, 2016 21:16 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | I think it would be great if they had a way to denote if a store is a top rated
seller (to steal eBay's terminology). Develop good metrics on it, not that
crap they have for being a featured seller. Does a buyer give a rat if a store
as a logo, or 4 featured items in their store? NO. Buy I guarantee a buyer
cares if a store takes a week to send out an order, or doesn't reply to messages,
has an obscene S&H fee, ships smokey lego, or doesn't know how to count.
(I'm looking at you QCBricks)
|
What is that supposed to mean? We never took a week to ship, always replied
to messages, never had obscene S&H, never even had a staff member that was around
smoke let alone who was a smoker, and we knew how to count.
I also think we have only ordered from you, I'm not aware we ever sent you
an order.
Clarification?
Scott
| | Our current feedback doesn't address
that. How many people have a negative experience, and then don't leave ANY
feedback. That's not good. Future buyers then don't know about it.
if Bricklink came up with a decent criteria and a way to actually track it,
that could help buyers know who to buy from.
I got off track on this post, and have to get back to work, but I think the overall
message is still there.
-jed
|
|
just referring to the message you posted about how you it really shouldn't
be too much to expect parts come smoke free and accurately counted.
you have ordered from me. I definitely appreciate your business.
-jed
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:45 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with Lego | | Viewed: | 125 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| |
Might be helpful if there was a 5 start rating on Certain aspects like shipping,
separation of variants, accuracy of part count, etc
|
Rather than busting them out, I would prefer to see something where the member
leaving FB gets a set of sliders, or groups of radio buttons, and when they have
set them all to how they feel the transaction was handled, then it computes a
composite number. That requires some weighting, but I think it is still representative.
Ray
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 166 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
While I would like to see huge changes to the FB system, I voted No.
Here's the problem with those types of systems. (Really any type of FB system)
The ratings will just mean different things to different people.
For example, in a basic Likert-type 1-5 rating system there can be confusion
because some people think that 5 means "good" or "satisfactory" while others
may think that 3 means the same because Likert usually uses the 3 rating for
things like "satisfied" while using 4 or 5 for things like "very satisfied" or
"extremely satisfied".
Adding in 95 more potential ratings is just asking for trouble. What you will
likely see is something like what happens on eBay, which is the great majority
of buyers give 5s on DSRs and the few people who do anything different are not
enough to make much difference. Nearly every seller has DSRs in the 4.8, 4.9.
or 5.0 range. The system causes the ratings to coalesce around those scores.
The outliers just end up being slightly outside that range. Despite the 1.0-5.0
range, the really, really bad ones end up being at something like 4.2 and not
at 1.5 or something similar.
Anyone who has taught extensively or worked with rubric calculation likely understands
that this is a natural part of the assessment process. It is often incredibly
challenging and time consuming to develop assessment methods that are not subject
to such score grouping. and those tools are much, much more in depth than a feedback
rating.
At least with the 3 factor feedback system, "positive", "negative" and "neutral"
are pretty descriptive. (The first two more so)
The better solution would be to eliminate feedback on buyers and free them to
leave open and honest feedback for sellers, along with some expanded feedback
removal rules that would be available to sellers. (For example, being allowed
to show proof of the shipping date if a buyer leaves a "did not ship for two
weeks" negative or removing bad feedback left 10 minutes after an order that
has not yet had any interaction between buyer and seller)
This would allow sellers to spend more time selling instead of leaving rote feedback
that serves no purpose and it would allow buyers to leave honest feedback. In
addition, it would stop the potential for turning away buyers who either feel
they were retaliated against or fear that their concerns cannot be heard.
It has been well established that the threat of retaliatory feedback for buyers
is huge. When this came up a few months ago, Figbits, myself, and several others
looked through quite a bit of buyer feedback to only find that the retaliatory
feedback rate against buyers can easily approach 30% or more...almost across
the board.
Focus on making the system more robust, honest, and meaningful, but also focus
on making it less complicated rather than more complicated.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:37 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 140 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | The better solution would be to eliminate feedback on buyers
|
This has been suggested - and rejected - many times, going as far back as when
Dan was still running things. I am with the majority who think this is a bad
idea. Seller reputations are extremely important and greatly affect their sales.
To allow some buyers to leave unfair or undeserved negative feedback with impunity
would be very costly to many sellers. Moreover, there were many times as a seller
when I found a buyer's feedback profile very helpful in determining whether
and how to proceed with their order, how to ship their order and whether I should
require insurance.
| | It has been well established that the threat of retaliatory feedback for buyers
is huge.
|
No, this has NOT been "established". It has been CLAIMED, but not proven. Repeatedly
making the same claim does not magically make it true or "established".
| | When this came up a few months ago, Figbits, myself, and several others
looked through quite a bit of buyer feedback to only find that the retaliatory
feedback rate against buyers can easily approach 30% or more...almost across
the board.
|
Please present those numbers (FACTS) again. I don't recall them being anywhere
near that high.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:55 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | The better solution would be to eliminate feedback on buyers and free them to
leave open and honest feedback for sellers, along with some expanded feedback
removal rules that would be available to sellers. (For example, being allowed
to show proof of the shipping date if a buyer leaves a "did not ship for two
weeks" negative or removing bad feedback left 10 minutes after an order that
has not yet had any interaction between buyer and seller)
This would allow sellers to spend more time selling instead of leaving rote feedback
that serves no purpose and it would allow buyers to leave honest feedback. In
addition, it would stop the potential for turning away buyers who either feel
they were retaliated against or fear that their concerns cannot be heard.
|
I sold on a site for many years that had no buyer FB. It also had no buyer membership.
All buyers were treated as transient. I observed huge problems with that, as
it encouraged buyer misbehavior. It was a time saver for sellers, as it removed
one more task, but it diminished buyer participation in FB to maybe one out of
ten. Buyer participation in FB when a complaint was posted was closer to ten
out of ten. So it encouraged mis-representative FB. Site management was much
involved in FB adjustment for this reason.
Be careful what you ask for, because you might get it.
Ray
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 17:12 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 123 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | The better solution would be to eliminate feedback on buyers and free them to
leave open and honest feedback for sellers, along with some expanded feedback
removal rules that would be available to sellers. (For example, being allowed
to show proof of the shipping date if a buyer leaves a "did not ship for two
weeks" negative or removing bad feedback left 10 minutes after an order that
has not yet had any interaction between buyer and seller)
This would allow sellers to spend more time selling instead of leaving rote feedback
that serves no purpose and it would allow buyers to leave honest feedback. In
addition, it would stop the potential for turning away buyers who either feel
they were retaliated against or fear that their concerns cannot be heard.
|
I sold on a site for many years that had no buyer FB. It also had no buyer membership.
All buyers were treated as transient. I observed huge problems with that, as
it encouraged buyer misbehavior. It was a time saver for sellers, as it removed
one more task, but it diminished buyer participation in FB to maybe one out of
ten. Buyer participation in FB when a complaint was posted was closer to ten
out of ten. So it encouraged mis-representative FB. Site management was much
involved in FB adjustment for this reason.
Be careful what you ask for, because you might get it.
Ray
|
Well we've had probably had something close to 150,000 orders on places that
were not BL over the last 15 years, and for nearly all those we did not have
the option to leave the buyer feedback, so I've got a pretty decent handle
on that. Personally I've been involved in online selling since I was doing
email "auctions" in rec.arts.collecting in the mid 1990s, so I know a small amount
about online buyer behavior. (Search it up on Google Groups if you are the online
stalker type)
While buyer participation is probably lower in those cases, that is not reason
alone to allow sellers to pursue petty vendettas or retaliation in a way that
hurts every other seller. The fact that buyers can get their complaints out
and then remain on the site is something that is more good than bad for every
seller.
This idea that buyers will just go crazy and start leaving untrue feedback is
all balderdash. It is right up there with statements like "I won't take
PayPal because you just get ripped off all the time". As I have said many times
before, this is such a non-issue.
Will there be some cases that require a bit of follow up and attention? Yes
Those cases are so few and far between they almost don't rate a mention.
In this case, the good far outweighs the bad, and bringing up one bad thing
does not counter the fact that there will be a great deal of good to come out
of a change like freeing buyers from the threat of retaliation. (And in this
case so much more than allowing them to leave a "78 out of 100" only to get a
"19 out of 100" from a seller in return)
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 17:23 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 123 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| |
This idea that buyers will just go crazy and start leaving untrue feedback is
all balderdash. It is right up there with statements like "I won't take
PayPal because you just get ripped off all the time". As I have said many times
before, this is such a non-issue.
|
Well, if you are justifying this on the small frequency of occurrence, let's
use that same justification to reject the idea that the small frequency of seller
feedback retaliation justifies fundamentally changing the feedback system 16
years in. Non-positive feedback for sellers is warranted in only a small percentage
of cases. And the vast majority of those cases do NOT result in retaliatory
feedback from sellers. So we are talking about something that happens with less
than 1% of orders. That makes it as much a non-issue as buyers leaving retaliatory
feedback for sellers.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | jedvii | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 18:42 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 110 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
While I would like to see huge changes to the FB system, I voted No.
Here's the problem with those types of systems. (Really any type of FB system)
The ratings will just mean different things to different people.
For example, in a basic Likert-type 1-5 rating system there can be confusion
because some people think that 5 means "good" or "satisfactory" while others
may think that 3 means the same because Likert usually uses the 3 rating for
things like "satisfied" while using 4 or 5 for things like "very satisfied" or
"extremely satisfied".
Adding in 95 more potential ratings is just asking for trouble. What you will
likely see is something like what happens on eBay, which is the great majority
of buyers give 5s on DSRs and the few people who do anything different are not
enough to make much difference. Nearly every seller has DSRs in the 4.8, 4.9.
or 5.0 range. The system causes the ratings to coalesce around those scores.
The outliers just end up being slightly outside that range. Despite the 1.0-5.0
range, the really, really bad ones end up being at something like 4.2 and not
at 1.5 or something similar.
Anyone who has taught extensively or worked with rubric calculation likely understands
that this is a natural part of the assessment process. It is often incredibly
challenging and time consuming to develop assessment methods that are not subject
to such score grouping. and those tools are much, much more in depth than a feedback
rating.
At least with the 3 factor feedback system, "positive", "negative" and "neutral"
are pretty descriptive. (The first two more so)
The better solution would be to eliminate feedback on buyers and free them to
leave open and honest feedback for sellers, along with some expanded feedback
removal rules that would be available to sellers. (For example, being allowed
to show proof of the shipping date if a buyer leaves a "did not ship for two
weeks" negative or removing bad feedback left 10 minutes after an order that
has not yet had any interaction between buyer and seller)
This would allow sellers to spend more time selling instead of leaving rote feedback
that serves no purpose and it would allow buyers to leave honest feedback. In
addition, it would stop the potential for turning away buyers who either feel
they were retaliated against or fear that their concerns cannot be heard.
It has been well established that the threat of retaliatory feedback for buyers
is huge. When this came up a few months ago, Figbits, myself, and several others
looked through quite a bit of buyer feedback to only find that the retaliatory
feedback rate against buyers can easily approach 30% or more...almost across
the board.
Focus on making the system more robust, honest, and meaningful, but also focus
on making it less complicated rather than more complicated.
Scott
|
I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of feedback of buyers. It
adds even a small amount of accountability to buyers. One thing I feel BL needs
to do is have all communications done on site. That way if there is a problem,
they can at least look through the messages to get a better idea of the problem.
I also think they need to get tracking on the site. The seller can upload the
tracking number and then BL can determine if it was actually taken to the post
office and delivered. Granted the tracking isn't perfect, but it would help
with resolutions.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Grego | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 19:21 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 113 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
While I would like to see huge changes to the FB system, I voted No.
Here's the problem with those types of systems. (Really any type of FB system)
The ratings will just mean different things to different people.
For example, in a basic Likert-type 1-5 rating system there can be confusion
because some people think that 5 means "good" or "satisfactory" while others
may think that 3 means the same because Likert usually uses the 3 rating for
things like "satisfied" while using 4 or 5 for things like "very satisfied" or
"extremely satisfied".
Adding in 95 more potential ratings is just asking for trouble. What you will
likely see is something like what happens on eBay, which is the great majority
of buyers give 5s on DSRs and the few people who do anything different are not
enough to make much difference. Nearly every seller has DSRs in the 4.8, 4.9.
or 5.0 range. The system causes the ratings to coalesce around those scores.
The outliers just end up being slightly outside that range. Despite the 1.0-5.0
range, the really, really bad ones end up being at something like 4.2 and not
at 1.5 or something similar.
Anyone who has taught extensively or worked with rubric calculation likely understands
that this is a natural part of the assessment process. It is often incredibly
challenging and time consuming to develop assessment methods that are not subject
to such score grouping. and those tools are much, much more in depth than a feedback
rating.
At least with the 3 factor feedback system, "positive", "negative" and "neutral"
are pretty descriptive. (The first two more so)
The better solution would be to eliminate feedback on buyers and free them to
leave open and honest feedback for sellers, along with some expanded feedback
removal rules that would be available to sellers. (For example, being allowed
to show proof of the shipping date if a buyer leaves a "did not ship for two
weeks" negative or removing bad feedback left 10 minutes after an order that
has not yet had any interaction between buyer and seller)
This would allow sellers to spend more time selling instead of leaving rote feedback
that serves no purpose and it would allow buyers to leave honest feedback. In
addition, it would stop the potential for turning away buyers who either feel
they were retaliated against or fear that their concerns cannot be heard.
It has been well established that the threat of retaliatory feedback for buyers
is huge. When this came up a few months ago, Figbits, myself, and several others
looked through quite a bit of buyer feedback to only find that the retaliatory
feedback rate against buyers can easily approach 30% or more...almost across
the board.
Focus on making the system more robust, honest, and meaningful, but also focus
on making it less complicated rather than more complicated.
Scott
|
I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of feedback of buyers. It
adds even a small amount of accountability to buyers. One thing I feel BL needs
to do is have all communications done on site. That way if there is a problem,
they can at least look through the messages to get a better idea of the problem.
I also think they need to get tracking on the site. The seller can upload the
tracking number and then BL can determine if it was actually taken to the post
office and delivered. Granted the tracking isn't perfect, but it would help
with resolutions.
|
Tracking may be common in some countries for domestic shipping, not so common
(i.e. expensive) for international and in some countries not cheap for domestic
either.
Next time you buy to or from Canada ...look at the cost difference between tracked
vs intracked.
And you think US orders internationally are down already with the high cost of
postage? Add in tracking and watch them drop thru the floor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 23:18 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 101 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| |
I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of feedback of buyers. It
adds even a small amount of accountability to buyers. One thing I feel BL needs
to do is have all communications done on site. That way if there is a problem,
they can at least look through the messages to get a better idea of the problem.
|
Why do buyers need "accountability" beyond paying for their orders? When you
walk into your local supermarket, what sort of accountability are they demanding
of you beyond what the local law allows (or disallows)?
I really just don't get this notion at all. Beyond issues surrounding payment
what is there? Take payment (paid, didn't pay, charged back, etc) out of
it and to me, every argument comes down to "I want to make the buyer suffer consequences
just because..." Things like "Buyer claimed parts were missing, but I know I
sent them" or "buyer claims Used sent as New" or "buyer was rude/mean/angry"
or whatever else really are rare enough that I don't see that is a reason
to hold on to the current system.
Those are really customer service issues and stores should be addressing them
in meaningful ways and using resolutions that buyers want. (We buy a lot on
BL and I can say with some confidence that this is a opportunity for improvement
for many stores)
In over 14,000 orders we had on BL, I think that we had probably less than 10
cases with buyers on issues other than with payment/non-payment/chargebacks/etc
that warranted a negative. We probably had well over 150 NPBs during that same
time. To me, 5 or 6% of the time there is a non-payment issue is not enough to
justify not making changes.
| |
I also think they need to get tracking on the site. The seller can upload the
tracking number and then BL can determine if it was actually taken to the post
office and delivered. Granted the tracking isn't perfect, but it would help
with resolutions.
|
This will only work if BL can integrate with most major shipping solutions.
It is a pretty steep burden on a seller who is shipping 30 orders a day if they
already have a framework for sending this information through something like
an email. It would be much easier to integrate a form where this information
is required where requested. (Buyer requests to leave a negative for non-delivery
and seller has a chance to provide tracking)
That said, keep in mind that several well know stores that are now gone that
racked up hundreds of non-positives regularly used fake tracking numbers to stall
buyers.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jul 16, 2016 07:51 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| |
Why do buyers need "accountability" beyond paying for their orders?
|
Because they are the other half of the contract and are legitimately expected
to act fairly and in good faith in following the seller's and BL's terms.
If not by you, then by numerous other sellers.
| | When you walk into your local supermarket...
|
Oh come on! You KNOW that shopping in a supermarket in no way compares to shopping
at a BL store. This has been explained countless times.
| | I really just don't get this notion at all. Beyond issues surrounding payment
what is there? Take payment (paid, didn't pay, charged back, etc) out of
it and to me, every argument comes down to "I want to make the buyer suffer consequences just because..."
|
It is insultingly dismissive of legitimate seller concerns to suggest that they
want to penalize buyers out of spite or "just because". I don't know what
has caused you to have such a jaded view of BL sellers, but in my experience
more than 99% of them have been wonderful and go out of their way to provide
excellent courteous service to their buyers.
And as has been repeatedly explained in the past, there are many things buyers
can do (and have done) beyond merely making payment that can legitimately affect
how the seller feels about the transaction or which could form a valid basis
for informing or warning the community about future dealings with such buyers.
This includes bogus PayPal reversal claims, chargebacks, claims of account hijacking,
excessive claims of non-receipt, illegal demands for customs fraud, refusals
to pick up packages from customs because they don't want to pay the duties,
threats to file PayPal claims if the seller does not reimburse them for customs
duties, angry insulting outbursts, bogus emotional accusations of seller fraud,
profanity and vulgarity in their communications with sellers, refusal to communicate
and amicably try to resolve problems before leaving feedback, unreasonable demands,
harassment, and other misdeeds and irrational behavior that make the transaction
experience difficult, unexpectedly costly or unpleasant for the seller.
Granted... The vast majority of the times buyers are fantastic and everything
is fine. But for the one or two percent of times when it is not, I see no legitimate
reason why sellers cannot leave appropriate feedback honestly expressing how
they feel about the transaction and helping the community by cautioning other
sellers in the future. That is way more than "just because". And the fact that
a small minority of sellers may abuse this right is no reason to withhold it
from everyone else.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jedvii | | Posted: | Jul 16, 2016 21:14 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| |
I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of feedback of buyers. It
adds even a small amount of accountability to buyers. One thing I feel BL needs
to do is have all communications done on site. That way if there is a problem,
they can at least look through the messages to get a better idea of the problem.
|
Why do buyers need "accountability" beyond paying for their orders? When you
walk into your local supermarket, what sort of accountability are they demanding
of you beyond what the local law allows (or disallows)?
I really just don't get this notion at all. Beyond issues surrounding payment
what is there? Take payment (paid, didn't pay, charged back, etc) out of
it and to me, every argument comes down to "I want to make the buyer suffer consequences
just because..." Things like "Buyer claimed parts were missing, but I know I
sent them" or "buyer claims Used sent as New" or "buyer was rude/mean/angry"
or whatever else really are rare enough that I don't see that is a reason
to hold on to the current system.
Scott
|
fraudulent buyers, buyers who frequently make orders and then never pay, buyers
who are constantly "not getting all their items", buyers who's entire package
doesn't get "delivered", buyers who take weeks to pay. Look, i'm not
saying all, most, or even more than 10% buyers are this way. I'm just saying
that FB shouldn't be removed for buyers. Ebay still does feedback for buyers
and there's not point in it. If anything it's helpful to remind buyers
to leave feedback for sellers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2016 00:16 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, jedvii writes:
| |
I don't think it's a good idea to get rid of feedback of buyers. It
adds even a small amount of accountability to buyers. One thing I feel BL needs
to do is have all communications done on site. That way if there is a problem,
they can at least look through the messages to get a better idea of the problem.
|
Why do buyers need "accountability" beyond paying for their orders? When you
walk into your local supermarket, what sort of accountability are they demanding
of you beyond what the local law allows (or disallows)?
I really just don't get this notion at all. Beyond issues surrounding payment
what is there? Take payment (paid, didn't pay, charged back, etc) out of
it and to me, every argument comes down to "I want to make the buyer suffer consequences
just because..." Things like "Buyer claimed parts were missing, but I know I
sent them" or "buyer claims Used sent as New" or "buyer was rude/mean/angry"
or whatever else really are rare enough that I don't see that is a reason
to hold on to the current system.
Scott
|
fraudulent buyers, buyers who frequently make orders and then never pay, buyers
who are constantly "not getting all their items", buyers who's entire package
doesn't get "delivered", buyers who take weeks to pay.
|
Let's look at each of those.
Fraudulent buyers. Like what? They filed a chargeback? That's on the list
that QCBricks listed as "take payment out of it". In other words, sure --
that's a legitimate reason for something to be done about the buyer.
Buyers who frequently make orders and then never pay. Again, that's a payment
issue. It can be dealt with through NPB -- feedback is not required.
Buyers who are constantly "not getting all their items". How does the ability
to leave feedback help this? A seller would leave a negative if a buyer claimed
that they didn't get their items? This is more easily dealt with by submitting
a form to Admin stating that they buyer says they didn't get their items.
Admin could track how many such reports a buyer gets.
Buyers whose entire package doesn't arrive. Same as above. There is a MUCH
better solution than feedback, because sellers are unlikely to leave negative
feedback for a buyer who says their order didn't arrive (nor should they!)
Buyers who take weeks to pay. If a seller doesn't want that, they need simply
file an NPB. Again, feedback doesn't fix this. (Also, it's yet again
a payment issue.)
| | Look, i'm not
saying all, most, or even more than 10% buyers are this way. I'm just saying
that FB shouldn't be removed for buyers. Ebay still does feedback for buyers
and there's not point in it. If anything it's helpful to remind buyers
to leave feedback for sellers.
|
I'm not sure what you mean there, but Ebay does not allow sellers to leave
negative feedback about buyers. Neither does BrickOwl.
On your list above, every single one has better solutions than leaving negative
feedback for buyers.
The solution isn't *just* to remove the ability to leave feedback for buyers.
It's to remove that and replace it with something else. Sellers should
be able to alert BrickLink when there has been a significant issue. Not "this
buyer is rude", but rather "The buyer says they did not receive their order".
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 13:41 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 134 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
Personally, I always look at it from this angle. What % of the time would a
change like this come in handy.
1 in 2? probably not.. 1 in 10? maybe not even?
As a buyer, only one time have I been unsatisfied with a seller.
So, 1 in 200?
As a seller, my goal for perfection will never be attained, but my goal for always
fixing mistakes the way the buyer wants has.
Maybe a sliding scale would highlight things for me as a seller, but would probably
do nothing as a buyer.
I think of it like this.
When I had a pedal bike, my brother had a 3 speed.
When I got rid of my bike, I got a 10 speed.. I used 4 of those 10.. 1, 5, 6
and 10 (both gears all the way up or down). After that got stolen, I got a 12
speed bike and again, only ever used 4 speeds..
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:20 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 123 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| http://www.thennt.com/thennt-explained/
Scott
In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
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Personally, I always look at it from this angle. What % of the time would a
change like this come in handy.
1 in 2? probably not.. 1 in 10? maybe not even?
As a buyer, only one time have I been unsatisfied with a seller.
So, 1 in 200?
As a seller, my goal for perfection will never be attained, but my goal for always
fixing mistakes the way the buyer wants has.
Maybe a sliding scale would highlight things for me as a seller, but would probably
do nothing as a buyer.
I think of it like this.
When I had a pedal bike, my brother had a 3 speed.
When I got rid of my bike, I got a 10 speed.. I used 4 of those 10.. 1, 5, 6
and 10 (both gears all the way up or down). After that got stolen, I got a 12
speed bike and again, only ever used 4 speeds..
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| | | | | Author: | dustyshelf | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 13:58 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 137 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| A feedback system doesn't need to be that complicated. It gives a seller
or buyer a general idea of the other parties performance. I am not interested
in having to think about and then apply numbers to evaluate someone.
If the order was fulfilled as ordered...positive.
If there were some issues but I still got everything, positive with a comment.
Maybe neutral in extreme cases.
If I didn't get everything as ordered, negative.
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| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 15:07 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 115 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
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vote no.
there is really nothing wrong with the current system for feedback. It works
for me, and meets my needs.
"Nuanced" feedback is not helpful. That just encourages people to vacillate and
avoid making a judgement about whether the experience was positive or not, and
that is the information that is useful.
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| | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 16:00 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 111 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, calebfishn writes:
| | In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
|
vote no.
there is really nothing wrong with the current system for feedback. It works
for me, and meets my needs.
"Nuanced" feedback is not helpful. That just encourages people to vacillate and
avoid making a judgement about whether the experience was positive or not, and
that is the information that is useful.
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Maybe we are thinking of 'nuanced' as two different things. Like I posted
in another reply, I would much rather see a 100 taken down to 95 (or 90) than
I would to a 50 (i.e. Neutral). My suggestion is about granularity. No order
is cut & dried, unless it is smooth sailing and both parties are 100% happy.
That is the objective of all sellers, but things occasionally go wrong. Nobody
is 100% perfect, even if your current FB makes it look that way.
Ray
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| | | | | Author: | agpage | | Posted: | Jul 15, 2016 17:56 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 111 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| The only change I would be interested in considering is a feedback escrow system.
In one transaction I had as a buyer, I bought from a shop with problems. It
was a tiny order, so I did not check carefully. In the 3+months it took to get
me order, I saw this store leave a string of retaliatory feedback for buyers
that I believe had fair complaints.
Even watching their language in the 4 messages we exchanged made me convinced
that had I left a neutral or negative, they would have as well.
I think that sellers should not be able to leave feedback after the buyer does.
Or both should be invisible until both are given.
But it looks like the system pretty much works, so I would not want to see radical
changes.
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| | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jul 17, 2016 21:34 | | Subject: | Re: Do away with feedback | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | … as it is known today.
The feedback system goes back to the earliest days of BL. It was probably copied
from eBay, who copied it from somewhere else.
It only provides 3 stark choices. That is insufficient in many cases.
Replace it with a numerical number, either 100 to 0, or possibly 50 to 0 to -50.
Something that allows for a more nuanced scoring of the transaction (without
going nuclear).
I hope this provokes people to think about the current system, whether it is
serving our needs, and what improvements can be applied.
Ray
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I would disagree. The feedback system is right in your face. Nothing to figure
out. You look to see how many reds and how long ago they were left. When I
was buying, and I bought quite a lot, I tended to avoid shops with a lot of negatives
or gave reasons always blaming the seller. I am not sure that a decimal point
system would detour me or help me judge. Where would a 92 fit or a 75 fit?
I would buy from a 88.0 but not a 87? I do not know. That is what Amazon does
and I do not even bother because if something goes wrong at Amazon they always
fix it for me almost instantly.
And yes it was copied from eBay. Most of the nuts and bolts were direct copies
of eBay when Bricklink first started. It was also called Brickbay at first but
ebay threatened Dan and he changed it. I had a long discussion with him on giving
in but I saw that he was correct. Who wanted to really fight ebay.
BL has evolved a lot over time and is much more now than when it copied ebay.
That is what makes it special today.
John P
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USA, Florida
Netherlands, Gelderland
Canada, Saskatchewan
United Kingdom, England
