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| | | Author: | Teup  | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 10:27 | | Subject: | Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 157 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| So the shipping cost suggestion (which I assume will in the future become the
backbone of automatic check-out) is fairly elaborate, it features data from different
countries' postal services, and it allows the seller to play around with
different kinds of handling fees. Nicely done 
Some sellers, including yours truly, add PayPal fees to the grand total. It would
be extremely helpful if the shipping cost suggestion had an option (either included
in the handling fee tab or otherwise) called "PayPal fees". Yes, it would require
BL to be up to date with all the relevant PayPal fees per country, but seeing
as BL has already been doing that for the postal services, this seems quite similar.
For me it's not that big a deal because I have my own software to calculate
the fees, but for sellers who aren't programmers, this would be really helpful.
Also, once auto-checkout hits, it would need to be there in some form anyway.
Without this, the entire shipping cost suggestion and anything that will be done
with it in the future is rendered useless for those sellers who charge PayPal
fees.
Added benefit is that sellers no longer can throw on some 5% or whatever with
the excuse that calculating exact PayPal fees is so complicated (which is a pretty
good point right now, because the PayPal site is a complete disaster when it
comes to this). As far as I know I (and all of Europe?) are actually by law prohibited
to overcharge payment methods. So this feature would likely reduce the amount
of law-breaking going on.
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| | | | | Author: | Cob | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 11:31 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I would enjoy automatic checkout as a seller and as a buyer. However, it is
not possible until all of the items have their dimensions listed in their catalog
entry. Without the dimensions it would not be possible to determine if the order
will fit into the package.
Examples
http://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=2561#T=C
http://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?I=8076-1#T=S&O={"ss":"US","rpp":"50"}
There is no way for an automatic check out to know if these items will fit in
an flat rate box or envelope. Weight alone is not sufficient to determine shipping
cost.
2 pounds of Lego can be shipped anywhere in the USA for $6.80 in a flat rate
envelope or around $12 for self packaging. Pretty big difference in cost.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 11:37 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Cob writes:
I fully agree, they are working on that as well! It's why I also posted this
suggestion,
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=994323
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Grego | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 11:49 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
And while we're at it, let's slap on mandatory tracking and insurance
on all orders ./sarcasm off
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| | | | | | | Author: | qwertyboy | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 11:42 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Cob writes:
| | 2 pounds of Lego can be shipped anywhere in the USA for $6.80 in a flat rate
envelope or around $12 for self packaging. Pretty big difference in cost.
|
1 ounce of Lego can be shipped all across Canada for CAD 1.89 in a padded envelope,
or for CAD 10-15 for parcel service if the dimensions require it. Pretty big
difference in cost.
Niek.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 11:53 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, qwertyboy writes:
| | In Suggestions, Cob writes:
| | 2 pounds of Lego can be shipped anywhere in the USA for $6.80 in a flat rate
envelope or around $12 for self packaging. Pretty big difference in cost.
|
1 ounce of Lego can be shipped all across Canada for CAD 1.89 in a padded envelope,
or for CAD 10-15 for parcel service if the dimensions require it. Pretty big
difference in cost.
Niek.
|
Try this one as an alternate problem area in the UK. Small parcels are limited
to 2Kg - anything over that immediately moves to a medium parcel, The minimum
cost of a medium parcel is £15.85 (between 2Kg and 5Kg) but if the seller ships
it as 2 x small parcels the cost is £11. Not really sure how their proposed system
is going to cope with this and the fact that a seller may not wish to ship two
parcels rather than 1.
Auto-checkout might not be the panacea everyone thinks it is going to be. It
would be a nicety if it worked but if it doesn't get it right there are going
to be costs to pick up, refunds to issue and additional admin and problems.
It would also eliminate (possibly) the NPB scenario. We will always prefer to
process the order and notify the buyer of the real shipping costs rather than
a system trying to work all the possibilities at checkout - but of course that
is just our opinion. Our customers seem to be happy/comfortable with that - really
why would we want to change it?
It doesn't mean an order is going to ship any quicker, nor does it mean the
system will get it right e.g. dimensions and volume calculations are not going
to be easy. I believe this new Lego design product that Bricklink have got will
possibly offer a route to get the dimensions and weights - they claim they can
get the majority of this from LDD - but Lego have announced they are not going
to update LDD nor move it forward. So more interesting times lay ahead.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 11:58 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, qwertyboy writes:
| | In Suggestions, Cob writes:
| | 2 pounds of Lego can be shipped anywhere in the USA for $6.80 in a flat rate
envelope or around $12 for self packaging. Pretty big difference in cost.
|
1 ounce of Lego can be shipped all across Canada for CAD 1.89 in a padded envelope,
or for CAD 10-15 for parcel service if the dimensions require it. Pretty big
difference in cost.
Niek.
|
Try this one as an alternate problem area in the UK. Small parcels are limited
to 2Kg - anything over that immediately moves to a medium parcel, The minimum
cost of a medium parcel is £15.85 (between 2Kg and 5Kg) but if the seller ships
it as 2 x small parcels the cost is £11. Not really sure how their proposed system
is going to cope with this and the fact that a seller may not wish to ship two
parcels rather than 1.
Auto-checkout might not be the panacea everyone thinks it is going to be. It
would be a nicety if it worked but if it doesn't get it right there are going
to be costs to pick up, refunds to issue and additional admin and problems.
It would also eliminate (possibly) the NPB scenario. We will always prefer to
process the order and notify the buyer of the real shipping costs rather than
a system trying to work all the possibilities at checkout - but of course that
is just our opinion. Our customers seem to be happy/comfortable with that - really
why would we want to change it?
It doesn't mean an order is going to ship any quicker, nor does it mean the
system will get it right e.g. dimensions and volume calculations are not going
to be easy. I believe this new Lego design product that Bricklink have got will
possibly offer a route to get the dimensions and weights - they claim they can
get the majority of this from LDD - but Lego have announced they are not going
to update LDD nor move it forward. So more interesting times lay ahead.
|
Oops forgot to add this:
No one has yet come up with any answers on multiple batch orders (we get a lot
of these). I certainly do not want to pick multiple paypal fees for the same
order and I am sure no-one else does either - so how will that work ?
Lots to get sorted before this can become a reality and based on the site update
I am not really sure anyone is brimming with confidence over development getting
it right.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 12:11 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | | | Try this one as an alternate problem area in the UK. Small parcels are limited
to 2Kg - anything over that immediately moves to a medium parcel, The minimum
cost of a medium parcel is £15.85 (between 2Kg and 5Kg) but if the seller ships
it as 2 x small parcels the cost is £11. Not really sure how their proposed system
is going to cope with this and the fact that a seller may not wish to ship two
parcels rather than 1.
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|
Well, sellers can draw on predefined tables but they can also create their own.
I understand your dilemma, but in the end it's a personal decision yes, but
all the same a decision that can be reduced to numbers of weight and size. You
could create an intermediate step in your shipping table (for 2x small parcel),
which an order will qualify for when it's in a certain weight window. I guess
it won't be possible to specify individual parcel dimensions per tier...
but there's quite alot you can do and finetune already as it is. It will
never be 100% accurate. The important part is that a buyer can see the costs
before they check out, and agree on it. If it turns out overcharged, it's
not really a crime like it is in case the buyer doesn't know and has to trust
the seller blindly.
| | | | Auto-checkout might not be the panacea everyone thinks it is going to be. It
would be a nicety if it worked but if it doesn't get it right there are going
to be costs to pick up, refunds to issue and additional admin and problems.
|
|
I don't really need it either. But I trust BL will decide what's best
for their revenue, and if it is the way to go, well, then that's just the
way the mop flops I guess.
| | Oops forgot to add this:
No one has yet come up with any answers on multiple batch orders (we get a lot
of these). I certainly do not want to pick multiple paypal fees for the same
order and I am sure no-one else does either - so how will that work ?
|
Well, the system can just calculate that.. in the end, this is all a numbers
game. And if a batch for example increases shipping costs, the system can simply
look at how much it had already charged for shipping, how much the new package
will cost, and then end up charging the difference for the second payment. BrickOwl
does it that way. Separate (PayPal)fees could also be added for the extra batch.
The system will need to know if a first payment has already been sent or not,
and it will anyway, in order for this system to work at all. It works quite well
on BO.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | | | Try this one as an alternate problem area in the UK. Small parcels are limited
to 2Kg - anything over that immediately moves to a medium parcel, The minimum
cost of a medium parcel is £15.85 (between 2Kg and 5Kg) but if the seller ships
it as 2 x small parcels the cost is £11. Not really sure how their proposed system
is going to cope with this and the fact that a seller may not wish to ship two
parcels rather than 1.
|
|
Well, sellers can draw on predefined tables but they can also create their own.
I understand your dilemma, but in the end it's a personal decision yes, but
all the same a decision that can be reduced to numbers of weight and size. You
could create an intermediate step in your shipping table (for 2x small parcel),
which an order will qualify for when it's in a certain weight window. I guess
it won't be possible to specify individual parcel dimensions per tier...
but there's quite alot you can do and finetune already as it is. It will
never be 100% accurate. The important part is that a buyer can see the costs
before they check out, and agree on it. If it turns out overcharged, it's
not really a crime like it is in case the buyer doesn't know and has to trust
the seller blindly.
| | | | Auto-checkout might not be the panacea everyone thinks it is going to be. It
would be a nicety if it worked but if it doesn't get it right there are going
to be costs to pick up, refunds to issue and additional admin and problems.
|
|
I don't really need it either. But I trust BL will decide what's best
for their revenue, and if it is the way to go, well, then that's just the
way the mop flops I guess.
| | Oops forgot to add this:
No one has yet come up with any answers on multiple batch orders (we get a lot
of these). I certainly do not want to pick multiple paypal fees for the same
order and I am sure no-one else does either - so how will that work ?
|
Well, the system can just calculate that.. in the end, this is all a numbers
game. And if a batch for example increases shipping costs, the system can simply
look at how much it had already charged for shipping, how much the new package
will cost, and then end up charging the difference for the second payment. BrickOwl
does it that way. Separate (PayPal)fees could also be added for the extra batch.
The system will need to know if a first payment has already been sent or not,
and it will anyway, in order for this system to work at all. It works quite well
on BO.
|
If it doesn't allow dimensions per tier then it will fail in the UK, Large
letters/small parcels and medium parcels all have their own min/max dimensions
as well as weights and without the ability to define that no system can work
out the correct shipping costs - it can only guess and that is not what is wanted.
It looks like you are implying we are going to have to charge paypal fees - which
is not likely - they have to come up with a better way of dealing with this little
issue. Suggestions have been to no longer allow multiple batches (which I do
not believe will go down well).
If all this works so wonderfully well at BO why is it that all the stores who
wanted auto-checkout haven't moved there? Bricklink is still the premier
site for Lego and we are sure they will try and stay that way, but that won't
be done by introducing illogical operating procedures.
If it all were just a numbers game life would be far easier than it is - but
unfortunately it isn't. Yes we can tell the weight of an order (approximate)
but at present we cannot tell in any way what style parcel it is going to go
into. That has to be solved first. And perhaps one of the first steps is getting
the catalogue database updated to reflect the requirements. e.g. Height, weight
etc etc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | | | Try this one as an alternate problem area in the UK. Small parcels are limited
to 2Kg - anything over that immediately moves to a medium parcel, The minimum
cost of a medium parcel is £15.85 (between 2Kg and 5Kg) but if the seller ships
it as 2 x small parcels the cost is £11. Not really sure how their proposed system
is going to cope with this and the fact that a seller may not wish to ship two
parcels rather than 1.
|
|
Well, sellers can draw on predefined tables but they can also create their own.
I understand your dilemma, but in the end it's a personal decision yes, but
all the same a decision that can be reduced to numbers of weight and size. You
could create an intermediate step in your shipping table (for 2x small parcel),
which an order will qualify for when it's in a certain weight window. I guess
it won't be possible to specify individual parcel dimensions per tier...
but there's quite alot you can do and finetune already as it is. It will
never be 100% accurate. The important part is that a buyer can see the costs
before they check out, and agree on it. If it turns out overcharged, it's
not really a crime like it is in case the buyer doesn't know and has to trust
the seller blindly.
| | | | Auto-checkout might not be the panacea everyone thinks it is going to be. It
would be a nicety if it worked but if it doesn't get it right there are going
to be costs to pick up, refunds to issue and additional admin and problems.
|
|
I don't really need it either. But I trust BL will decide what's best
for their revenue, and if it is the way to go, well, then that's just the
way the mop flops I guess.
| | Oops forgot to add this:
No one has yet come up with any answers on multiple batch orders (we get a lot
of these). I certainly do not want to pick multiple paypal fees for the same
order and I am sure no-one else does either - so how will that work ?
|
Well, the system can just calculate that.. in the end, this is all a numbers
game. And if a batch for example increases shipping costs, the system can simply
look at how much it had already charged for shipping, how much the new package
will cost, and then end up charging the difference for the second payment. BrickOwl
does it that way. Separate (PayPal)fees could also be added for the extra batch.
The system will need to know if a first payment has already been sent or not,
and it will anyway, in order for this system to work at all. It works quite well
on BO.
|
If it doesn't allow dimensions per tier then it will fail in the UK, Large
letters/small parcels and medium parcels all have their own min/max dimensions
as well as weights and without the ability to define that no system can work
out the correct shipping costs - it can only guess and that is not what is wanted.
It looks like you are implying we are going to have to charge paypal fees - which
is not likely - they have to come up with a better way of dealing with this little
issue. Suggestions have been to no longer allow multiple batches (which I do
not believe will go down well).
|
Not at all, I was only suggesting the implementation of this feature as optional,
just like anything about auto shipping calculation is optional and customisable.
None of these issues really require much human emotional intelligence, the algorythms
can simply calculate all we need, and each seller can for their own decide what
to charge per batch, per order, etc. BO allows multiple batches and it works
fine.
| | If all this works so wonderfully well at BO why is it that all the stores who
wanted auto-checkout haven't moved there? Bricklink is still the premier
site for Lego and we are sure they will try and stay that way, but that won't
be done by introducing illogical operating procedures.
|
This assumes that a priori when a new site launches, that will automatically
be the new most popular one. If you'd launch a site today that is exactly
as good as Facebook, will everyone move there? You'd be lucky if some people
would be on both platforms. And BO is actually drawing alot of sellers, I am
selling there too and so are many big Bricklinkers. It's quite astonishing
how that site managed to get a hold of a piece of this market that has been dominated
by 1 site for so long. I never read about any real complaints about their system
in the forums. That includes UK sellers.
| | If it all were just a numbers game life would be far easier than it is - but
unfortunately it isn't. Yes we can tell the weight of an order (approximate)
but at present we cannot tell in any way what style parcel it is going to go
into. That has to be solved first. And perhaps one of the first steps is getting
the catalogue database updated to reflect the requirements. e.g. Height, weight
etc etc.
|
You have strong opinions, but have you given shipping cost suggestion an honest
chance? Check how often it comes up with the right answer and how often it's
wrong. Then you will know for a fact how useful it is, and where the problems
are. We can discuss the theory and try to persuade each other that it's good
or bad, but it is here right now and you can actually test it. I haven't
tested it thoroughly but my first impression is that it's already working
quite well. For almost all of my orders it comes up with the right shipping cost
and correctly predicts when the items are too large.
I can also tell you that on BO, a similar system is producing over 95% correct
grand totals for me. Tweak it until it proces the optimal results for you, then
decide if that percentage is acceptable or too low. If it's too low, the
problem will be not in the theory (because it works on BO) but due to anomalities
in the database or bugs in the algorythm. It is a feasable feature, it is not
impossible.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 22:42 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | If all this works so wonderfully well at BO why is it that all the stores who
wanted auto-checkout haven't moved there?
|
There's no need to "move" there -- we sell on both. And the autocheckout
there is exactly what we need here.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 22:52 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | If all this works so wonderfully well at BO why is it that all the stores who
wanted auto-checkout haven't moved there?
|
There's no need to "move" there -- we sell on both. And the autocheckout
there is exactly what we need here.
--
Marc.
|
Morning Marc
Don't agree - it is what some stores want - (not need). Bricklink has operated
for many years with consistent growth in each and all of those without it and
doesn't need it now - it is a nicety not a mandatory requirement.
If they bring it in like they have brought in this latest set of changes Bricklink
could disappear.
I don't wish to start a debate on this uplift (as it isn't helpful anymore)
but this update has been overshadowed by the myriad of problems it has brought
with it as well as the lack of overall support for it. Bricklink, or their development
team, whichever are not going to do anything about that other than fix the bugs
that they can fix (and hopefully without introducing others). When the site settles
down and the slow period ends we shall see if there really is an improvement
from this change.
Personally I cannot see that happening. People are prone to lasting impressions
from first glance and most of the experienced people on here do not care for
the current set of changes (us included).
Our web designer has looked at and isn't as critical as we are but thinks
they could have done much much better with less disruption to the old methodology.
(Unfortunately he isn't as big a Lego fan as we are)
We have never felt the need to open our store on BO - early reports from some
of our colleagues who did were not all that favourable - but we will continue
to monitor that especially if this site update continues to denigrate Bricklink.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 23:02 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | If all this works so wonderfully well at BO why is it that all the stores who
wanted auto-checkout haven't moved there?
|
There's no need to "move" there -- we sell on both. And the autocheckout
there is exactly what we need here.
--
Marc.
|
Morning Marc
Don't agree - it is what some stores want - (not need). Bricklink has operated
for many years with consistent growth in each and all of those without it and
doesn't need it now - it is a nicety not a mandatory requirement.
|
You may have misunderstood my statement. You asked about the people who want
auto-checkout. When I replied with "we" I was referring to that group (which
I am a part of). The checkout system at BO is what we (the people who want autocheckout
here) need.
I am not saying that everyone on BL wants or needs it. I know there are plenty
who don't.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 23:18 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | If all this works so wonderfully well at BO why is it that all the stores who
wanted auto-checkout haven't moved there?
|
There's no need to "move" there -- we sell on both. And the autocheckout
there is exactly what we need here.
--
Marc.
|
Morning Marc
Don't agree - it is what some stores want - (not need). Bricklink has operated
for many years with consistent growth in each and all of those without it and
doesn't need it now - it is a nicety not a mandatory requirement.
|
You may have misunderstood my statement. You asked about the people who want
auto-checkout. When I replied with "we" I was referring to that group (which
I am a part of). The checkout system at BO is what we (the people who want autocheckout
here) need.
I am not saying that everyone on BL wants or needs it. I know there are plenty
who don't.
--
Marc.
|
Agreed it should be an option and those who want it and know it works for their
particular store/country can choose to use it or not. Fine we have no problem
with that at all. The problem lies with Bricklink's approach to all of this
- they seem to think it is a take it only situation denying people the flexibility/option
of choice. That is not good customer service nor is it the right way to do things.
We will watch how the development goes as for auto-checkout and make up our minds
after a very thorough examination - we don't want it forced down our throats
as they have done wit this new storefront idea (which is taking people a lot
longer to get used to than what they mush have thought, and has met with an overwhelming
disapproval rating)
I know you enjoy stats. The ones you produce at the end of each month are an
indicator of what has taken place - they would, of course be better if there
was a value associated with them, but that is not possible, They would also be
better if they were broken down by region (may be possible, may not be). This
kind of analysis should come from a Sales Analysis dashboard provided by Bricklink
to allow serious professional stores to look closely at their operations (Most
of us try and do this for our own stores off line with in-house systems) - but
an overall view would be much more helpful. Questions like what is selling in
the UK at the moment - Where does the UK fit in this months order totals, Which
stores are the most active (that is a tricky one but also needed).
All of the above plus proper inventory management tools should have been a much
higher priority than what they have just done. 7 of the top 10 stores in the
UK wanted that rather than a new storefront, but and it is a big but Bricklink
do not listen, despite what you say. They have a business to run and wish to
run it in their own way, almost despite their paying customers.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2016 05:46 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | We will watch how the development goes as for auto-checkout and make up our minds
after a very thorough examination - we don't want it forced down our throats
as they have done wit this new storefront idea (which is taking people a lot
longer to get used to than what they mush have thought, and has met with an overwhelming
disapproval rating)
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Only from people that disapprove of it. It has an overwhelming approval rating
if you consider only those that approve of it. If you consider all BL members,
it is likely to be a mixed approval rating.
There are a number of good features in the updates as well as some that probably
need more work on.
However, I thought the other and really major point of the update that most people
seem to ignore is that it is now based on THEIR code not the original code, so
that they know how to change the code for future updates. Not based on the ancient
code written by others that was always blamed when ideas could not be implemented
and thus blocked progress as it could not be changed simply. Now these developers
OWN the code (as in written and documented by this team), then there should no
longer be excuses that simple changes cannot be made due to the code being too
difficult to change. Even though that may be invisible to us (or only seen when
things break or are different to the original), it should make future updates
much more likely to happen.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2016 12:12 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | | | We will watch how the development goes as for auto-checkout and make up our minds
after a very thorough examination - we don't want it forced down our throats
as they have done wit this new storefront idea (which is taking people a lot
longer to get used to than what they mush have thought, and has met with an overwhelming
disapproval rating)
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Only from people that disapprove of it. It has an overwhelming approval rating
if you consider only those that approve of it. If you consider all BL members,
it is likely to be a mixed approval rating.
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If you believe the forum there are not many of those. The number of disapprovals
is far higher than approvals, overall.
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There are a number of good features in the updates as well as some that probably
need more work on.
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There will always be a couple of things in any major release like this that appeal
to people - we, personally can't find any.
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However, I thought the other and really major point of the update that most people
seem to ignore is that it is now based on THEIR code not the original code, so
that they know how to change the code for future updates. Not based on the ancient
code written by others that was always blamed when ideas could not be implemented
and thus blocked progress as it could not be changed simply. Now these developers
OWN the code (as in written and documented by this team), then there should no
longer be excuses that simple changes cannot be made due to the code being too
difficult to change. Even though that may be invisible to us (or only seen when
things break or are different to the original), it should make future updates
much more likely to happen.
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If it is based on their code then someone needs to help us here - this is supposed
to be a 'world class development team' and there have been more bugs/problems
in this release than I have ever seen in a software update (and that covers over
40 years - and includes Microsoft). They did not do enough testing either internally
nor via the sandbox and many of the issues show a lack of thorough understanding
of how Bricklink works for its members. They made a total mess of the catalogue
approval tools (and we are still hearing there are problems with that) and there
is nothing really in this release for stores/sellers (in our opinion)
We have noticed a sharp fall in orders and an even larger drop in average order
value (and after 5 years of being a store we know where we should normally be
at this time of year). In addition there has been, for us, a large influx of
very high lot, low value orders from 0 feedback buyers some of who we are already
chasing for payment. Yes we know Auto-checkout, if and when, could put an end
to that but in the meantime we have to process an order to determine accurate
shipping costs (we do not guess and due to the problems with 'gremlins'
in BL inventory we have to ensure the items ordered are there before we quote
shipping.
This update has had an effect on orders (there isn't any doubt on that),
but there is some doubt on how much effect is down to the update and how much
is down to June being not such a good month. Only time will tell. Perhaps if
they feel it in their pocket books when the June fees are calculated the message
might come home a bit stronger. A lot of forum comments suggesting the larger
stores are being preferred - somehow I cannot see that unless as on of the UK's
largest stores, we are not one of the larger stores they are referring to.
Marc's stats seem to conflict with the idea that orders are down but at the
moment it is any thing but normal.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2016 14:21 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | This update has had an effect on orders (there isn't any doubt on that),
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??
There is definitely doubt about it.
| | but there is some doubt on how much effect is down to the update and how much
is down to June being not such a good month. Only time will tell. Perhaps if
they feel it in their pocket books when the June fees are calculated the message
might come home a bit stronger. A lot of forum comments suggesting the larger
stores are being preferred - somehow I cannot see that unless as on of the UK's
largest stores, we are not one of the larger stores they are referring to.
Marc's stats seem to conflict with the idea that orders are down but at the
moment it is any thing but normal.
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The volume of orders is absolutely normal. The distribution of orders, who knows.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2016 14:45 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
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Marc's stats seem to conflict with the idea that orders are down but at the
moment it is any thing but normal.
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Those stats are themselves conflicting and inconclusive. Even the author admitted
in his comments that orders were down (as much as 100 orders per day right after
the upgrade). The only issue in doubt is whether that decline is "significant"
or not. But to the MANY MANY members who have posted complaints about not receiving
ANY orders or much fewer orders after the upgrade or much smaller orders than
usual, I am sure they will tell you that the decline as it affects them is very
"significant".
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2016 15:02 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| |
Marc's stats seem to conflict with the idea that orders are down but at the
moment it is any thing but normal.
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Those stats are themselves conflicting and inconclusive. Even the author admitted
in his comments that orders were down (as much as 100 orders per day right after
the upgrade). The only issue in doubt is whether that decline is "significant"
or not. But to the MANY MANY members who have posted complaints about not receiving
ANY orders or much fewer orders after the upgrade or much smaller orders than
usual, I am sure they will tell you that the decline as it affects them is very
"significant".
Thor
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Which is why I say so at every opportunity. Any individual store is going to
have trends that differ from the overall trend for the site. This is true now,
and it has been true since the day that BrickLink launched.
So far, June 2016 is very slightly above the trend when comparing the volume
of orders to the previous month (based on the ratios since 2010).
Will some stores have fewer orders? Absolutely. Will some stores have MANY fewer
orders? Absolutely.
Will some stores have more orders? Absolutely.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb138026 | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 23:11 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | If it doesn't allow dimensions per tier then it will fail in the UK, Large
letters/small parcels and medium parcels all have their own min/max dimensions
as well as weights and without the ability to define that no system can work
out the correct shipping costs - it can only guess and that is not what is wanted.
It looks like you are implying we are going to have to charge paypal fees - which
is not likely - they have to come up with a better way of dealing with this little
issue. Suggestions have been to no longer allow multiple batches (which I do
not believe will go down well).
If all this works so wonderfully well at BO why is it that all the stores who
wanted auto-checkout haven't moved there? Bricklink is still the premier
site for Lego and we are sure they will try and stay that way, but that won't
be done by introducing illogical operating procedures.
If it all were just a numbers game life would be far easier than it is - but
unfortunately it isn't. Yes we can tell the weight of an order (approximate)
but at present we cannot tell in any way what style parcel it is going to go
into. That has to be solved first. And perhaps one of the first steps is getting
the catalogue database updated to reflect the requirements. e.g. Height, weight
etc etc.
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Automated shipping methods are optional on BrickOwl, you can rely in the old
good "Request a quote" if you do desire. But most customers clearly prefer seeing
the shipping rates, being able to max out their order value without hidden surprises,
and pay right away.
One of the first advice given to new sellers over there is "Set up your shipping
methods!", because it roughly doubles the sales.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 16, 2016 05:25 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Stragus writes:
| | One of the first advice given to new sellers over there is "Set up your shipping
methods!", because it roughly doubles the sales.
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Not surprising at all, if you ask me. Auto check-out isn't some gimmick
or minor automation like scanning your own groceries in the supermarket. I believe
there are many, many people simply refuse to buy something online if they do
not know or see the price. It's really a paradigm shift.
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 11:58 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | So the shipping cost suggestion (which I assume will in the future become the
backbone of automatic check-out) is fairly elaborate, it features data from different
countries' postal services, and it allows the seller to play around with
different kinds of handling fees. Nicely done
Some sellers, including yours truly, add PayPal fees to the grand total. It would
be extremely helpful if the shipping cost suggestion had an option (either included
in the handling fee tab or otherwise) called "PayPal fees". Yes, it would require
BL to be up to date with all the relevant PayPal fees per country, but seeing
as BL has already been doing that for the postal services, this seems quite similar.
For me it's not that big a deal because I have my own software to calculate
the fees, but for sellers who aren't programmers, this would be really helpful.
Also, once auto-checkout hits, it would need to be there in some form anyway.
Without this, the entire shipping cost suggestion and anything that will be done
with it in the future is rendered useless for those sellers who charge PayPal
fees.
Added benefit is that sellers no longer can throw on some 5% or whatever with
the excuse that calculating exact PayPal fees is so complicated (which is a pretty
good point right now, because the PayPal site is a complete disaster when it
comes to this). As far as I know I (and all of Europe?) are actually by law prohibited
to overcharge payment methods. So this feature would likely reduce the amount
of law-breaking going on.
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By the way, I don't understand why in the shipping cost suggestion, insurance
is treated as a separate kind of product. Maybe this makes sense to the American
model or whatever model this idea was based on, but I don't buy insurance
separately from the shipping. It's impossible to calculate an isolated "insurance
charge", insured shipping comes with its own tariffs and weight table, and I
suspect this is true for most countries. This field is useless for me.
But I guess I would just create two shipping methods, one called "insured", and
ignore the "insurance" tab altogether. That does make it confusing to the buyer,
however.
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| | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | So the shipping cost suggestion (which I assume will in the future become the
backbone of automatic check-out) is fairly elaborate, it features data from different
countries' postal services, and it allows the seller to play around with
different kinds of handling fees. Nicely done
Some sellers, including yours truly, add PayPal fees to the grand total. It would
be extremely helpful if the shipping cost suggestion had an option (either included
in the handling fee tab or otherwise) called "PayPal fees". Yes, it would require
BL to be up to date with all the relevant PayPal fees per country, but seeing
as BL has already been doing that for the postal services, this seems quite similar.
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Just taking the fees from PayPal (by API or manually) and adding them to order
and shipping does not cover the real fees PayPal charges you on the total payment.
Example, shipping to HongKong:
Order value €100
Shipping costs €8.20
Total €108.20
PayPal fees according to Paypal: 5.2% + €0.35
(€108.20 x 5.2%) + €0.35 = €5.63 + €0.35 = €5.98
Payment €108.20 + €5.98 = €114.18
But when the buyer pays €114.18
you get charged by PayPal 5.2% + €0.35 on €114.18 which is €5.94 + €0.35 = €6.29
The difference is €0.31, not much but the calculation would be wrong.
You would have to apply 5.5% + €0.35 as handling fees in your store in the above
exmample to get near the exact fee amount you would be charged by PayPal.
The fixed €0.35 already can be applied in the shipping tool, what is missing
is a percentage field to input any amount you need to cover your PP fees, much
more simple than your suggestion and easy to implement.
You would have to create multiple shipping options according to the various different
PP fees according to buyer's country.
In Germany it's:
1.9% for EU and EEA buyers, your charge would be 2%
3.9% for North American buyers, your charge would be 4%
5.2% for all other buyers, your charge would be 5.5%
| | For me it's not that big a deal because I have my own software to calculate
the fees, but for sellers who aren't programmers, this would be really helpful.
Also, once auto-checkout hits, it would need to be there in some form anyway.
Without this, the entire shipping cost suggestion and anything that will be done
with it in the future is rendered useless for those sellers who charge PayPal
fees.
Added benefit is that sellers no longer can throw on some 5% or whatever with
the excuse that calculating exact PayPal fees is so complicated (which is a pretty
good point right now, because the PayPal site is a complete disaster when it
comes to this). As far as I know I (and all of Europe?) are actually by law prohibited
to overcharge payment methods. So this feature would likely reduce the amount
of law-breaking going on.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 15:44 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | You would have to create multiple shipping options according to the various different
PP fees according to buyer's country.
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This is the part that I didn't think of yet  You are right. I will probably
try this sometime even though my own software already provides me the numbers.
Thanks!
My suggestion still remains though. I now realise that it's doable as it
is, but still it would be nice if BL had the relevant figures at hand just as
it has the postal rates. It would make things a whole lot easier to set up, and
also, I apparently wasn't clever enough to think of this construction and
I would like to think I'm not the only one 
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2016 17:06 | | Subject: | Re: Shipping cost suggestion: PayPal Fees | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | You would have to create multiple shipping options according to the various different
PP fees according to buyer's country.
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This is the part that I didn't think of yet You are right. I will probably
try this sometime even though my own software already provides me the numbers.
Thanks!
My suggestion still remains though. I now realise that it's doable as it
is, but still it would be nice if BL had the relevant figures at hand just as
it has the postal rates. It would make things a whole lot easier to set up, and
also, I apparently wasn't clever enough to think of this construction and
I would like to think I'm not the only one
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When BrickLink will implement it, they need to understand the issue, then it
will be implemented only by 80%, will have bugs, and nobody will understand what
they have done (something you also most likely didn't think of yet, right?
)
Adding a simple field which would add a percentage on order and shipping and
leaving it up to the seller to enter the correct value is almost fail-safe (system-wise).
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Netherlands, Utrecht
USA, Missouri
Canada, British Columbia
United Kingdom, England
Germany, Berlin