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| | | Author: | ToriHada  | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:08 | | Subject: | Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 584 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Already Exists | |
|
| I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
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| | | | | Author: | dee6128 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:10 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| YES! I run into this problem all the time. I now just contact the seller for
a full quote which includes any costs or extra fees. Thanks Darren
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:29 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Excellent suggestion. Not sure that they will do that, BL resists any attempt
to show the full amount charged for an invoice before the order is submitted.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | TheBrickGuys | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:39 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | |
Excellent suggestion. Not sure that they will do that, BL resists any attempt
to show the full amount charged for an invoice before the order is submitted.
John P
|
I dont think BL "resists" showing the full amount charged it is just in the programing
and that makes it sound like BL dosent care which is untrue.
But anyway, I agree, the suggestions are spot on and hopefully they will include
them in near future.
Jim
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:46 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | | |
Excellent suggestion. Not sure that they will do that, BL resists any attempt
to show the full amount charged for an invoice before the order is submitted.
John P
|
I dont think BL "resists" showing the full amount charged it is just in the programing
and that makes it sound like BL dosent care which is untrue.
But anyway, I agree, the suggestions are spot on and hopefully they will include
them in near future.
Jim
|
This has been talked about and suggested before, but they chose not to add this
feature to the program. Dan added the rules and program changes about exchange
rates, so it is possible. If one person, perhaps Eric (RIP) makes two, it was
accomplished when there was not a "team" to do it.
John P
|
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| | | | | Author: | Saaby | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:37 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:37 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| BTW, would implementation of this suggestion help EU sellers comply with their
new laws about showing all costs to buyers in advance? I know it does not include
shipping, but that is something BL is currently addressing separately.
Thor
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 05:31 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | BTW, would implementation of this suggestion help EU sellers comply with their
new laws about showing all costs to buyers in advance? I know it does not include
shipping, but that is something BL is currently addressing separately.
Thor
|
No it won't.
We would have to show shipping costs for each item.
|
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:51 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| For me, it depends what "Packing and Handling Fees" means.
Is the physical packaging material included in the (act of) packing fee, or can
this still added to the postage costs, or down to the interpretation of how the
rule will be written.
For it to be meaningful, BL would have to specify that sellers can only charge
exact postage costs, and that the packaging materials would then have to be costed
in the original fee.
I would borrow from this thread http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=831104
and say ...
And please... If Amanda or anyone else on the CS Team is reading this thread,
please do NOT create new terms that can be interpreted in different ways.
Again, please KEEP IT SIMPLE and do not lawyer up the Terms Pages. There is no
need to complicate things. This is NOT a new problem or even a major old problem.
Lego has been properly sold here on BrickLink for many years without extra fees
being a major issue. BL rules specifically allow it if they are stated in the
splash / store terms pages. Once again, just like 99% of the time, it is just
a vocal few complaining.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:03 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| And my alternative view is that the order should not be a formal order until
all fees have been disclosed, including postage.
That is, a buyer may cancel an order once all additional fees including postage
have been disclosed. This would be more in line with EU law. Although there should
also be a statement about the returns process, how many days a buyer has to return
the items to the seller if they choose they don't want them after receiving
them and who is to pay for the return postage.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:07 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | And my alternative view is that the order should not be a formal order until
all fees have been disclosed, including postage.
That is, a buyer may cancel an order once all additional fees including postage
have been disclosed. This would be more in line with EU law. Although there should
also be a statement about the returns process, how many days a buyer has to return
the items to the seller if they choose they don't want them after receiving
them and who is to pay for the return postage.
|
Not a fan of that, because I would need to sort & pack the order to know what
the shipping cost is going to be.
I mean, they may still cancel it and I allow that.. I'll put the order in
my part out bin and once in a while I'll part it out again back in my inventory.
That happens once in a while, but BL shouldn't promote that to happen more
often. Unless there's some compensation like a handling fee that is still
spent. It's not because I want to force customers to buy things that I'm
against it, it's just because of the hours I'd be spending extra without
compensation.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:14 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Not a fan of that, because I would need to sort & pack the order to know what
the shipping cost is going to be.
I mean, they may still cancel it and I allow that.. I'll put the order in
my part out bin and once in a while I'll part it out again back in my inventory.
That happens once in a while, but BL shouldn't promote that to happen more
often. Unless there's some compensation like a handling fee that is still
spent. It's not because I want to force customers to buy things that I'm
against it, it's just because of the hours I'd be spending extra without
compensation.
|
Not if BL had an accurate database of part weights.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jbricks | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Not a fan of that, because I would need to sort & pack the order to know what
the shipping cost is going to be.
I mean, they may still cancel it and I allow that.. I'll put the order in
my part out bin and once in a while I'll part it out again back in my inventory.
That happens once in a while, but BL shouldn't promote that to happen more
often. Unless there's some compensation like a handling fee that is still
spent. It's not because I want to force customers to buy things that I'm
against it, it's just because of the hours I'd be spending extra without
compensation.
|
Not if BL had an accurate database of part weights.
|
which is impossible, because every part has a different weight in a different
produced color. and even in a different batch.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:51 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Not a fan of that, because I would need to sort & pack the order to know what
the shipping cost is going to be.
I mean, they may still cancel it and I allow that.. I'll put the order in
my part out bin and once in a while I'll part it out again back in my inventory.
That happens once in a while, but BL shouldn't promote that to happen more
often. Unless there's some compensation like a handling fee that is still
spent. It's not because I want to force customers to buy things that I'm
against it, it's just because of the hours I'd be spending extra without
compensation.
|
Not if BL had an accurate database of part weights.
|
which is impossible, because every part has a different weight in a different
produced color. and even in a different batch.
|
Well throw on a 5 to 10 gram error rate and that'd all be solved. It's
the volume and how different parts fit together that I'm concerned about.
Shipping costs can depend on my packaging skill, and on time you want to spend
fitting parts together in a smart way. I want to have the freedom to choose what
shipping option I pick per order, not have it calculated in advance.. I tell
my customers I do my best to keep it as low as possible, I want that to be up
to me.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:00 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Well throw on a 5 to 10 gram error rate and that'd all be solved. It's
the volume and how different parts fit together that I'm concerned about.
Shipping costs can depend on my packaging skill, and on time you want to spend
fitting parts together in a smart way. I want to have the freedom to choose what
shipping option I pick per order, not have it calculated in advance.. I tell
my customers I do my best to keep it as low as possible, I want that to be up
to me.
|
Under this suggestion you cannot have the freedom for that. If you have to use
a larger box rather than a bubble mailer for large but cheap parts for example
and you charge different prices for these, that is not allowed with this proposal,
since that is not what you pay at the post office. You must have already declared
the packaging costs fee before the order is placed.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:07 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:13 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Well throw on a 5 to 10 gram error rate and that'd all be solved. It's
the volume and how different parts fit together that I'm concerned about.
Shipping costs can depend on my packaging skill, and on time you want to spend
fitting parts together in a smart way. I want to have the freedom to choose what
shipping option I pick per order, not have it calculated in advance.. I tell
my customers I do my best to keep it as low as possible, I want that to be up
to me.
|
Under this suggestion you cannot have the freedom for that.
|
This is yet another one of your false claims about this suggestion and petty
attempt to sabotage my suggestion because I opposed your previous suggestion.
You are being blatantly intellectually dishonest in this thread.
|
No I am not, I am pointing out flaws in the suggestion. A seller must automatically
calculate all fees except postage before the order is placed. Therefore the order
needs to know what packaging he will be charging for. He could either charge
everyone the most expensive packaging, or average it and overcharge some and
undercharge others, but this needs to be accounted for before the order is placed,
if it cannot be added on afterwards.
| | This suggestion is NOT about calculating shipping. It is about calculating FEES.
|
So again, what is shipping? You have said only what is charged at the post office,
so this excludes packaging. So the seller has no freedom over the costs of packaging
- the fee associated with the packaging material must be calculated automatically
with your suggestion.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rolf | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 22:17 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Well throw on a 5 to 10 gram error rate and that'd all be solved. It's
the volume and how different parts fit together that I'm concerned about.
Shipping costs can depend on my packaging skill, and on time you want to spend
fitting parts together in a smart way. I want to have the freedom to choose what
shipping option I pick per order, not have it calculated in advance.. I tell
my customers I do my best to keep it as low as possible, I want that to be up
to me.
|
Under this suggestion you cannot have the freedom for that.
|
This is yet another one of your false claims about this suggestion and petty
attempt to sabotage my suggestion because I opposed your previous suggestion.
You are being blatantly intellectually dishonest in this thread.
|
No I am not, I am pointing out flaws in the suggestion. A seller must automatically
calculate all fees except postage before the order is placed. Therefore the order
needs to know what packaging he will be charging for. He could either charge
everyone the most expensive packaging, or average it and overcharge some and
undercharge others, but this needs to be accounted for before the order is placed,
if it cannot be added on afterwards.
| | This suggestion is NOT about calculating shipping. It is about calculating FEES.
|
So again, what is shipping? You have said only what is charged at the post office,
so this excludes packaging. So the seller has no freedom over the costs of packaging
- the fee associated with the packaging material must be calculated automatically
with your suggestion.
|
Uhh read OP again. He said shipping is NOT included. It would be still TBA as
before. I don't know why you keep doing that to foster. I don't always
agree with him, but I sure as heck don't go around posting and opposing everything
he says, even in expense of reading accuracy.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_424058 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:16 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:43 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Well throw on a 5 to 10 gram error rate and that'd all be solved. It's
the volume and how different parts fit together that I'm concerned about.
Shipping costs can depend on my packaging skill, and on time you want to spend
fitting parts together in a smart way. I want to have the freedom to choose what
shipping option I pick per order, not have it calculated in advance.. I tell
my customers I do my best to keep it as low as possible, I want that to be up
to me.
|
Under this suggestion you cannot have the freedom for that.
|
This is yet another one of your false claims about this suggestion and petty
attempt to sabotage my suggestion because I opposed your previous suggestion.
You are being blatantly intellectually dishonest in this thread.
This suggestion is NOT about calculating shipping. It is about calculating FEES.
If you want to talk about calculating shipping, please discuss that in a thread
where calculating shipping is the issue at hand.
Thor
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But then people will make their shipping costs crazy high,
|
Some may; many won't. Again, I don't insist on 100% effectiveness. It
is enough if this suggestion helps to improve things even if it does not entirely
eliminate the problem.
You are assuming sellers will be nefarious and devious in deliberately hiding
their fees. I don't make that assumption. In most cases, I think sellers
who have unclear or confusing terms about fees are NOT deliberately trying
to hide or confuse things for their buyers. Instead, either because they have
limited English skills or communicate poorly, they simply cannot explain things
as clear as many buyers would like. This suggestion gives those sellers a tool
to clarify and simplify things. It puts all fees in clear black and white and
shows them to buyers in advance. It helps not only buyers, but sellers too.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_424058 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:52 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:16 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
I don't think most sellers will do this either, but the ones who do will
be the problem. Eventually they'll realize that they aren't receiving
orders..
|
Exactly. The market will take care of these game players.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 17:52 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
I don't think most sellers will do this either, but the ones who do will
be the problem. Eventually they'll realize that they aren't receiving
orders..
|
Exactly. The market will take care of these game players.
Thor
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Wow, long branch of argument here suddenly For clarity, I agree that Foster's
suggestion would be a good idea, while having to know the shipping costs beforehand
(which would be an addition to that idea) would NOT be a good idea.
If someone outside Europe orders, say, 25x25x3 square cm of parts in my store,
shipping is either going to be EUR 9.45 or EUR 18.- depending on what parts we're
talking about (size? price/fragility?) and what kind of tricks I have up my sleeve
in order to pack it both efficiently and safely, and, admittedly, how much time
I am willing to spend on it (don't get me wrong, for such a big difference,
half an hour of puzzling is fine, I will gladly do that. But there is always
a practical limit somewhere). In that case, I could go and charge EUR 9.45, in
which case I completely ruin my profit if it doesn't work out, or EUR 18.-,
which may be an unnecessary false alarm that'd scare a customer away.
That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 17:58 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him
|
Obviously you have not watched Kitchen Nightmares or Restaurant Impossible, or
Bar Rescue. Never trust the chef because most are just cooks.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 18:09 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him
|
Obviously you have not watched Kitchen Nightmares or Restaurant Impossible, or
Bar Rescue. Never trust the chef because most are just cooks.
John P
|
 Hey that looks just like my shop.. 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 18:14 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him
|
Obviously you have not watched Kitchen Nightmares or Restaurant Impossible, or
Bar Rescue. Never trust the chef because most are just cooks.
John P
|
Hey that looks just like my shop..
|
I am not sure it is a restaurant or a college dorm room.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:47 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Not a fan of that, because I would need to sort & pack the order to know what
the shipping cost is going to be.
I mean, they may still cancel it and I allow that.. I'll put the order in
my part out bin and once in a while I'll part it out again back in my inventory.
That happens once in a while, but BL shouldn't promote that to happen more
often. Unless there's some compensation like a handling fee that is still
spent. It's not because I want to force customers to buy things that I'm
against it, it's just because of the hours I'd be spending extra without
compensation.
|
Not if BL had an accurate database of part weights.
|
Then I still wouldn't know. My estimation would be correct 90% of the time,
but 10% of the time it wouldn't. It all depends on size and how well parts
end up fitting together, there's no real way to calculate that.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:09 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:09 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | And my alternative view is that the order should not be a formal order until
all fees have been disclosed, including postage.
|
Then I suggest you make that a separate suggestion so that it can be discussed
and voted on separately from this suggestion.
| |
That is, a buyer may cancel an order once all additional fees including postage
have been disclosed. This would be more in line with EU law. Although there should
also be a statement about the returns process, how many days a buyer has to return
the items to the seller if they choose they don't want them after receiving
them and who is to pay for the return postage.
|
Again, please make your own separate suggestion for this and I will address it
there.
Thor
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:06 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | For me, it depends what "Packing and Handling Fees" means.
|
There is no reason to get caught up in semantics. It can be whatever you want
to call it. But regardless of what you call the fee, it must be clearly stated
in advance upon checkout and in the store terms page.
| |
Is the physical packaging material included in the (act of) packing fee, or can
this still added to the postage costs, or down to the interpretation of how the
rule will be written.
|
Again, what you call it and what it includes does not matter. What matters is
showing the exact numerical amount that will be charged. Call it a wipe your
hiney fee if you want. The number is the only thing that matters.
| | For it to be meaningful, BL would have to specify that sellers can only charge
exact postage costs, and that the packaging materials would then have to be costed
in the original fee.
|
That is a good point. But most sellers already do this. And I am sure BL can
come up with something to address this. At least until it implements a feature
to automatically calculate shipping at checkout. Then it won't matter what
shipping includes because it will be stated and shown up-front.
| | I would borrow from this thread http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=831104
and say ...
And please... If Amanda or anyone else on the CS Team is reading this thread,
please do NOT create new terms that can be interpreted in different ways.
Again, please KEEP IT SIMPLE and do not lawyer up the Terms Pages. There is no
need to complicate things. This is NOT a new problem or even a major old problem.
Lego has been properly sold here on BrickLink for many years without extra fees
being a major issue. BL rules specifically allow it if they are stated in the
splash / store terms pages. Once again, just like 99% of the time, it is just
a vocal few complaining.
|
Awww... Now you are just being petty and juvenile, commenting against my suggestion
because I commented against yours.
BTW, it is not "just a vocal few complaining". There have been thousands of posts
and complaints over the years about seller fees. Furthermore, implementing this
suggestion will make things simpler and easier, not more complicated. Right now,
one of the biggest complaints about fees are that they are difficult to know
in advance. You might understand this if you were a bit more objective.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:12 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | | | For me, it depends what "Packing and Handling Fees" means.
|
There is no reason to get caught up in semantics. It can be whatever you want
to call it. But regardless of what you call the fee, it must be clearly stated
in advance upon checkout and in the store terms page.
| |
Is the physical packaging material included in the (act of) packing fee, or can
this still added to the postage costs, or down to the interpretation of how the
rule will be written.
|
Again, what you call it and what it includes does not matter. What matters is
showing the exact numerical amount that will be charged. Call it a wipe your
hiney fee if you want. The number is the only thing that matters.
| | For it to be meaningful, BL would have to specify that sellers can only charge
exact postage costs, and that the packaging materials would then have to be costed
in the original fee.
|
That is a good point. But most sellers already do this. And I am sure BL can
come up with something to address this. At least until it implements a feature
to automatically calculate shipping at checkout. Then it won't matter what
shipping includes because it will be stated and shown up-front.
|
It does matter what you can and cannot charge. If you can charge zero fees and
declare zero, then push all of your packaging and handling costs into the postage
fee, then it is utterly pointless having to declare fees up front.
So the wording of what postage costs are would need to have an exact meaning,
and not be able to be interpreted in more than one way.
To some packing and handling fees are the fees you can charge to pick the parts
and pack them into a box, but not the cost of the box. For others it will include
the box.
To some the postage fee would be the costs of just the stamps, to others it would
be the cost of the packaging too.
So it is open to interpretation, and therefore you can state you charge zero
fees, but lump extra costs into the postage fee.
So BL would need to "lawyer up" the pages to state exactly what can be charged
for where. Which is exactly what you seem to be against in other people's
suggestions when clarity of rules is asked for.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:28 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | | | For me, it depends what "Packing and Handling Fees" means.
|
There is no reason to get caught up in semantics. It can be whatever you want
to call it. But regardless of what you call the fee, it must be clearly stated
in advance upon checkout and in the store terms page.
| |
Is the physical packaging material included in the (act of) packing fee, or can
this still added to the postage costs, or down to the interpretation of how the
rule will be written.
|
Again, what you call it and what it includes does not matter. What matters is
showing the exact numerical amount that will be charged. Call it a wipe your
hiney fee if you want. The number is the only thing that matters.
| | For it to be meaningful, BL would have to specify that sellers can only charge
exact postage costs, and that the packaging materials would then have to be costed
in the original fee.
|
That is a good point. But most sellers already do this. And I am sure BL can
come up with something to address this. At least until it implements a feature
to automatically calculate shipping at checkout. Then it won't matter what
shipping includes because it will be stated and shown up-front.
|
It does matter what you can and cannot charge.
|
I did NOT say it does not matter what you can and cannot CHARGE. In fact, I said
the exact opposite. I said that what you charge is the only thing that matters.
Not what you call it. Please don't misrepresent what I wrote.
| | If you can charge zero fees and declare zero, then push all of your packaging and
handling costs into the postage fee, then it is utterly pointless having to declare fees up front.
|
I agree. That is why I also agreed with the suggestion that BL better delineate
between postage and fees by requiring each to be separately stated and for postage
to be as close to actual postage as possible.
| | To some packing and handling fees are the fees you can charge to pick the parts
and pack them into a box, but not the cost of the box. For others it will include
the box.
To some the postage fee would be the costs of just the stamps, to others it would
be the cost of the packaging too.
So it is open to interpretation, and therefore you can state you charge zero
fees, but lump extra costs into the postage fee.
|
We can eliminate this uncertainty and difference in interpretations with only
a single brief line of simple non-legal text stating that postage includes only
what you pay the post office and that everything else is fees.
| | So BL would need to "lawyer up" the pages to state exactly what can be charged
for where. Which is exactly what you seem to be against in other people's
suggestions when clarity of rules is asked for.
|
Still being petty? A single line of simple layman's text is not lawyering
up anything. In fact, this suggestion does the exact opposite. It greatly simplifies
and clarifies things for all buyers. It renders all the "lawyering up" some sellers
have in their store terms and splash pages when it comes to the myriad confusing
ways fees are currently charged on BrickLink.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:41 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | We can eliminate this uncertainty and difference in interpretations with only
a single brief line of simple non-legal text stating that postage includes only
what you pay the post office and that everything else is fees.
|
So there is going to be an explicit rule that you can only charge what you hand
over to the post office. So what about businesses that have to charge VAT on
postage. They do not pay that to the post office, so it cannot be included in
the postage fee, but it is a percentage of the postage fee. So to charge it,
they need to state this fee which is a proportion of the postage costs up front,
so if they are going to do that, then they already know the postage costs.
Or they just overcharge for it, and lump it into fees so that everyone overpays
- which is the argument against automatic postage fee calculations.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:00 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:06 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 18 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | Again, you are trying to deliberately fabricate non-existent complexities. If
VAT must be paid on postage then it is part of what you pay for that postage.
Simple.
|
So it is not just what you pay at the post office, and the simple lawyer-free
talk is incorrect? And if a buyer has postage charged at £12 yet sees it only
cost the seller £10 he can complain about the 20% overcharge as he should have
only been charged £10 according to the BL rules, yet the seller is also in the
right as he has only charged what he has paid.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:28 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:38 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Again, you are trying to deliberately fabricate non-existent complexities. If
VAT must be paid on postage then it is part of what you pay for that postage.
Simple.
|
So it is not just what you pay at the post office, and the simple lawyer-free
talk is incorrect?
|
It *IS* what you pay at the post office (or wherever you purchase postage). If
VAT must be charged when you buy postage isn't that what you pay at the post
office?
|
No. In most (all?) EU countries mail is VAT exempt as long as the post office
'sells' it. But only for them. This means that if you run a VAT registered
business then there is no reclaimable VAT but you must pay VAT on the shipping
fee when you charge it on the buyer. This means that if the shipping cost is
10 USD and the VAT is 20% then the cost to a VAT registered business is 12 USD
(10 paid to the post office, 2 paid to the tax authority) while for the public
(and small businesses not registered for VAT) it is 10 USD.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:59 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Again, you are trying to deliberately fabricate non-existent complexities. If
VAT must be paid on postage then it is part of what you pay for that postage.
Simple.
|
So it is not just what you pay at the post office, and the simple lawyer-free
talk is incorrect?
|
It *IS* what you pay at the post office (or wherever you purchase postage). If
VAT must be charged when you buy postage isn't that what you pay at the post
office?
|
No. In most (all?) EU countries mail is VAT exempt as long as the post office
'sells' it. But only for them. This means that if you run a VAT registered
business then there is no reclaimable VAT but you must pay VAT on the shipping
fee when you charge it on the buyer. This means that if the shipping cost is
10 USD and the VAT is 20% then the cost to a VAT registered business is 12 USD
(10 paid to the post office, 2 paid to the tax authority) while for the public
(and small businesses not registered for VAT) it is 10 USD.
|
Thank you for clarifying this. I still don't think this poses insurmountable
problems for this suggestion. If VAT must be added to postage - either at the
counter or when you bill your buyer - then it is simply part of that postage
and should be recovered by the seller.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:06 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | - which is the argument against automatic postage fee calculations.
|
It will allow buyers to compare easier: they fill their cart wih the exact same
items in several shops, then compare what the total cost is in each of those
stores. Once they figured out the best option they check out in the shop with
the best offer. Shops inflating their S&H to cover 'costs' will simply
get less orders in the long run and they will need to review their runnings...
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:34 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| |
For it to be meaningful, BL would have to specify that sellers can only charge
exact postage costs, and that the packaging materials would then have to be costed
in the original fee.
|
This has got to be one of the more delusional suggestion I've read here.
You can either require sellers to show the shipping cost in advance or to charge
the exact shipping cost. The two together are simply impossible. And the first
makes a lot more sense of the two. The latter would be a pointless rule and also
impossible to enforce. How would you go about it really? Also what constitutes
a part of the shipping cost? If I have to pay 27% VAT on top of what I collect
as shipping fee from EU buyers and 6-7% on top of all collected shipping fees
as income tax then can I include those in the shipping cost or not?
At least 95% of businesses charge an arbitrary amount for shipping not their
actual shipping cost. This is a must if you want to show the customer the shipping
cost before purchase. Over here for example the most typical shipping charge
is X if the order total is under Y and zero if above. Both X and Y are arbitrary
numbers of course.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:45 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:54 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| |
For it to be meaningful, BL would have to specify that sellers can only charge
exact postage costs, and that the packaging materials would then have to be costed
in the original fee.
|
This has got to be one of the more delusional suggestion I've read here.
|
Again, I will remind readers that the above quoted suggestion is NOT the suggestion
this thread is about.
Thor
|
So it isn't about charging exact postage costs with the other associated
costs all stated in the quoted fee to avoid people hiding fees in postage costs,
and yet you have also written:
That is why I also agreed with the suggestion that BL better delineate
between postage and fees by requiring each to be separately stated and for postage
to be as close to actual postage as possible.
and
We can eliminate this uncertainty and difference in interpretations with only
a single brief line of simple non-legal text stating that postage includes only
what you pay the post office and that everything else is fees.
which suggests that sellers can only charge the exact postage costs, with everything
else accounted for in the fees. Which is what I bolded up there.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:24 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| |
For it to be meaningful, BL would have to specify that sellers can only charge
exact postage costs, and that the packaging materials would then have to be costed
in the original fee.
|
This has got to be one of the more delusional suggestion I've read here.
|
Again, I will remind readers that the above quoted suggestion is NOT the suggestion
this thread is about.
Thor
|
So it isn't about charging exact postage costs with the other associated
costs all stated in the quoted fee to avoid people hiding fees in postage costs,
and yet you have also written:
That is why I also agreed with the suggestion that BL better delineate
between postage and fees by requiring each to be separately stated and for postage
to be as close to actual postage as possible.
and
We can eliminate this uncertainty and difference in interpretations with only
a single brief line of simple non-legal text stating that postage includes only
what you pay the post office and that everything else is fees.
which suggests that sellers can only charge the exact postage costs, with everything
else accounted for in the fees. Which is what I bolded up there.
|
What I agreed to was an ADDITIONAL suggestion to supplement this suggestion.
But it is not the suggestion I made at the outset of this thread. If it helps
to get this suggestion about fees implemented, I can live with that. Or not.
I can agree with the condition about postage being as exact as possible. But
it is not required for this suggestion. I trust that most sellers will do the
right thing. If a seller tries to get around this suggestion by inflating their
shipping with hidden surcharges, they will eventually be called out on it, have
it noted in their feedback, and get less orders.
Oh, and by the way, already without this suggestion sellers can fudge and inflate
the shipping charges however they want. This suggestion does not create any new
problems in this regard.
The important thing is to have MORE clarification of seller fees in advance.
This suggestion will help accomplish that. While a few sellers may still play
games and try to get around it, I don't insist on something working 100%
before thinking it might help. It is enough if it provides SOME help, even if
it does not fully cover all aspects of the problem.
When my child first learned to walk I did not expect them to run a marathon.
Thor
P.S. I will also add that the day is not far away when all or the vast majority
of BrickLink orders will have shipping automatically calculated in advance on
checkout. When that happens, many of the games you fear may happen will no longer
be hidden.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:54 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Very good, fully agree. I think BO has basically just that.
Implementing it would require one thing though, a BL team that actually listens
to the community and understands what things are and are not useful for the site
they run..
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | speshy | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:07 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I like it!
But, as another posted mentioned, sellers might just starting padding the shipping
costs in lieu of stated additional fees. I wouldn't mind adding that only
actual shipping may be charged--but, then again, you have the option of showing
or hiding shipping costs on your PayPal shipping labels. I can imagine: "Gee,
my scale must be off. I definitely paid for a 10 oz. package for your Wald minifigure".
Voted yes.
K
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Cyberclark | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:11 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, speshy writes:
-but, then again, you have the option of showing
| | or hiding shipping costs on your PayPal shipping labels. I can imagine: "Gee,
my scale must be off. I definitely paid for a 10 oz. package for your Wald minifigure".
|
It doesn't show the price on the shipping label. But it does show the weight.
So if they said they paid for a 10oz package and the label says 2oz. You could
call BS for sure.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | speshy | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:14 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Good point.
In Suggestions, Cyberclark writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
-but, then again, you have the option of showing
| | or hiding shipping costs on your PayPal shipping labels. I can imagine: "Gee,
my scale must be off. I definitely paid for a 10 oz. package for your Wald minifigure".
|
It doesn't show the price on the shipping label. But it does show the weight.
So if they said they paid for a 10oz package and the label says 2oz. You could
call BS for sure.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:16 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | I like it!
But, as another posted mentioned, sellers might just starting padding the shipping
costs in lieu of stated additional fees. I wouldn't mind adding that only
actual shipping may be charged--but, then again, you have the option of showing
or hiding shipping costs on your PayPal shipping labels. I can imagine: "Gee,
my scale must be off. I definitely paid for a 10 oz. package for your Wald minifigure".
Voted yes.
K
|
I would have no problem if BrickLink wanted to more clearly delineate between
postage and fees, including a policy of having shipping be as close to actual
postage as possible, If sellers want more, they can charge a fee as per this
suggestion. I think most can agree that it would be better if fees were not buried
or hidden in inflated shipping charges.
Stealth postage would not be a problem. There are good reasons for stealth postage
and some online postage services actually require it. If the shipping amount
is stated in the invoice, Order Details and Orders Placed pages, any buyer can
check whether the package they received had proper postage assessed. If you know
the weight of your package, postage rates can be easily found online.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:32 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I would have no problem if BrickLink wanted to more clearly delineate between
postage and fees, including a policy of having shipping be as close to actual
postage as possible,
|
So what does that mean? You have to be within 10c or $1, $10 or 10% or 50% of
the actual postage amount? A policy of being as close to something as possible
is meaningless. Who defines whether something is close or not?
| | Stealth postage would not be a problem. There are good reasons for stealth postage
and some online postage services actually require it. If the shipping amount
is stated in the invoice, Order Details and Orders Placed pages, any buyer can
check whether the package they received had proper postage assessed. If you know
the weight of your package, postage rates can be easily found online.
|
It would be.
Seller - postage is $5
Buyer - OK
Buyer receives package and sees $2 and complains
Seller - I overestimated postage
Buyer - I want a refund
Seller - no, you agreed to postage costs before paying
An easy way for sellers, especially sellers that are likely to hide stuff from
buyers and not care about getting repeat buyers or negative under the existing
rules, to make themselves look good value but then sting the custom with hidden
fees.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | I would have no problem if BrickLink wanted to more clearly delineate between
postage and fees, including a policy of having shipping be as close to actual
postage as possible,
|
So what does that mean? You have to be within 10c or $1, $10 or 10% or 50% of
the actual postage amount? A policy of being as close to something as possible
is meaningless. Who defines whether something is close or not?
|
There is no need to define everything down to its most minute detail. As a buyer,
I am not going to throw a hissy fit if postage is off by a nickel or dime. You
know the expression, can't see the forest for the trees? You are looking
at a single blade of grass and ignoring the entire field. I understand you are
pissed I opposed your previous suggestion, but I am not going to be dragged down
into the minutiae with you.
| | | | Stealth postage would not be a problem. There are good reasons for stealth postage
and some online postage services actually require it. If the shipping amount
is stated in the invoice, Order Details and Orders Placed pages, any buyer can
check whether the package they received had proper postage assessed. If you know
the weight of your package, postage rates can be easily found online.
|
It would be.
Seller - postage is $5
Buyer - OK
Buyer receives package and sees $2 and complains
Seller - I overestimated postage
Buyer - I want a refund
Seller - no, you agreed to postage costs before paying
An easy way for sellers, especially sellers that are likely to hide stuff from
buyers and not care about getting repeat buyers or negative under the existing
rules, to make themselves look good value but then sting the custom with hidden
fees.
|
Well here I see you finally admit having a problem with "hidden" fees. This suggestion
is specifically designed to un-hide those fees and make them clear and obvious
to everyone.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:46 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | There is no need to define everything down to its most minute detail. As a buyer,
I am not going to throw a hissy fit if postage is off by a nickel or dime. You
know the expression, can't see the forest for the trees? You are looking
at a single blade of grass and ignoring the entire field. I understand you are
pissed I opposed your previous suggestion, but I am not going to be dragged down
into the minutiae with you.
|
So what if postage for a large order was charged at $50, and in reality it was
$45. $5 is a lot, but maybe not much. So $40, $10 is substantial and maybe some
would complain and others wouldn't. What if it was charged at $48 and the
person complains as it was $2. Should their complaint be upheld?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:03 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:08 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | There is no need to define everything down to its most minute detail. As a buyer,
I am not going to throw a hissy fit if postage is off by a nickel or dime. You
know the expression, can't see the forest for the trees? You are looking
at a single blade of grass and ignoring the entire field. I understand you are
pissed I opposed your previous suggestion, but I am not going to be dragged down
into the minutiae with you.
|
So what if postage for a large order was charged at $50, and in reality it was
$45. $5 is a lot, but maybe not much. So $40, $10 is substantial and maybe some
would complain and others wouldn't. What if it was charged at $48 and the
person complains as it was $2. Should their complaint be upheld?
|
Gee, I guess it is better to just let sellers charge whatever hidden fees they
want. After all, a big bad seller might overcharge me $2 for postage, so that
is why I should not know other sellers may charge me $5 in hidden fees. Yup,
makes a lot of sense. LOL.
Thor
|
Different people will have different complaint thresholds. Some will care if
they are overcharged by $1. Some won't care if they were overcharged by $10.
So there is a problem if you need to be close to something, and close is not
defined.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:51 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| |
Seller - postage is $5
Buyer - OK
Buyer receives package and sees $2 and complains
Seller - I overestimated postage
Buyer - I want a refund
Seller - no, you agreed to postage costs before paying
An easy way for sellers, especially sellers that are likely to hide stuff from
buyers and not care about getting repeat buyers or negative under the existing
rules, to make themselves look good value but then sting the custom with hidden
fees.
|
If the buyer agrees to the postage cost then what is the basis for the complaint?
If I know for a fact that Amazon charges me way more for shipping cost than their
actual cost of shipping should I be able (/morally justified) to ask for a refund
then? They show me their shipping fee before I make the purchase and I have the
choice to take it or leave it. (At least 90% of the time I leave it since most
Amazon sites charge insane amounts for shipping to Central-Eastern Europe.)
When you buy from big companies do you expect them to charge you the exact shipping
cost? I'm sure you don't. Can't fathom why so many people are against
this practice here yet at the same time strongly push for showing shipping fees
at checkout. Even though the two issues are strongly linked. If you want the
latter you'll have to accept at least somewhat simplified and thus arbitrary
shipping fees.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:57 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| |
Seller - postage is $5
Buyer - OK
Buyer receives package and sees $2 and complains
Seller - I overestimated postage
Buyer - I want a refund
Seller - no, you agreed to postage costs before paying
An easy way for sellers, especially sellers that are likely to hide stuff from
buyers and not care about getting repeat buyers or negative under the existing
rules, to make themselves look good value but then sting the custom with hidden
fees.
|
If the buyer agrees to the postage cost then what is the basis for the complaint?
If I know for a fact that Amazon charges me way more for shipping cost than their
actual cost of shipping should I be able (/morally justified) to ask for a refund
then? They show me their shipping fee before I make the purchase and I have the
choice to take it or leave it. (At least 90% of the time I leave it since most
Amazon sites charge insane amounts for shipping to Central-Eastern Europe.)
When you buy from big companies do you expect them to charge you the exact shipping
cost? I'm sure you don't. Can't fathom why so many people are against
this practice here yet at the same time strongly push for showing shipping fees
at checkout. Even though the two issues are strongly linked. If you want the
latter you'll have to accept at least somewhat simplified and thus arbitrary
shipping fees.
|
That is the problem. You do not agree to the postage costs under this proposal.
The order (according to BL, not the EU) is legally binding when you place the
order and are shown the fees and costs of the parts, but not told what the shipping
price is.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:13 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | I like it!
But, as another posted mentioned, sellers might just starting padding the shipping
costs in lieu of stated additional fees. I wouldn't mind adding that only
actual shipping may be charged--but, then again, you have the option of showing
or hiding shipping costs on your PayPal shipping labels. I can imagine: "Gee,
my scale must be off. I definitely paid for a 10 oz. package for your Wald minifigure".
Voted yes.
K
|
I would have no problem if BrickLink wanted to more clearly delineate between
postage and fees, including a policy of having shipping be as close to actual
postage as possible, If sellers want more, they can charge a fee as per this
suggestion. I think most can agree that it would be better if fees were not buried
or hidden in inflated shipping charges.
Stealth postage would not be a problem. There are good reasons for stealth postage
and some online postage services actually require it. If the shipping amount
is stated in the invoice, Order Details and Orders Placed pages, any buyer can
check whether the package they received had proper postage assessed. If you know
the weight of your package, postage rates can be easily found online.
Thor
|
Do you at least have an idea on how extraordinary difficult it would be to control
which sellers charge actual postage and which sellers over-charge?
You are looking only from your own perspective, as someone who lives in US. Ignoring
the fact that US sellers do not even make up a third of Featured/Highlighted
stores list. Shows you where most of the BL business is.
It is easy for you in US to know how close or how far is your US seller's
shipping table from the actual cost.
For example here in EU we have many choices to ship our stuff, and it often includes
having contracts with shipping companies. Then the true cost of the service is
only known for the two sides who signed the contract.
How would you suggest to govern that?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
Do you at least have an idea on how extraordinary difficult it would be to control
which sellers charge actual postage and which sellers over-charge?
|
I do understand. Which is exactly why I think it will be impossible to come up
with an automated shipping calculator that correctly determines "actual" postage.
But again, that is NOT what I am suggesting here. I am suggesting that, for now
at least (until an automated "S&H" calculating system can be implemented), fees
should be more clearly shown to buyers in advance of purchase.
| | You are looking only from your own perspective, as someone who lives in US. Ignoring
the fact that US sellers do not even make up a third of Featured/Highlighted
stores list. Shows you where most of the BL business is.
It is easy for you in US to know how close or how far is your US seller's
shipping table from the actual cost.
For example here in EU we have many choices to ship our stuff, and it often includes
having contracts with shipping companies. Then the true cost of the service is
only known for the two sides who signed the contract.
How would you suggest to govern that?
|
Stop trying to make this a US versus non-US thing. It isn't that at all,
and this sorry argument just seems to be another red herring to deflect things.
My suggestion would apply equally to everyone regardless of where they live.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 16:03 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
Do you at least have an idea on how extraordinary difficult it would be to control
which sellers charge actual postage and which sellers over-charge?
|
I do understand. Which is exactly why I think it will be impossible to come up
with an automated shipping calculator that correctly determines "actual" postage.
But again, that is NOT what I am suggesting here. I am suggesting that, for now
at least (until an automated "S&H" calculating system can be implemented), fees
should be more clearly shown to buyers in advance of purchase.
| | You are looking only from your own perspective, as someone who lives in US. Ignoring
the fact that US sellers do not even make up a third of Featured/Highlighted
stores list. Shows you where most of the BL business is.
It is easy for you in US to know how close or how far is your US seller's
shipping table from the actual cost.
For example here in EU we have many choices to ship our stuff, and it often includes
having contracts with shipping companies. Then the true cost of the service is
only known for the two sides who signed the contract.
How would you suggest to govern that?
|
Stop trying to make this a US versus non-US thing. It isn't that at all,
and this sorry argument just seems to be another red herring to deflect things.
My suggestion would apply equally to everyone regardless of where they live.
Thor
|
If you would approach the situation(s) not only from you US view, then there
would not be a need for anyone to point it out.
A lot of what is being said at this forum is done without awareness of how global
BL is, and how cultures differ in their way of doing things.
In this case I provided arguments that you either chose to not account for,
or have not thought about. I would of course like for you not to ignore a huge
part of BL when you are suggesting something, or to acknowledge it in what you
say at the very least. If something you say provokes a US vs Non-US argument,
it is in what you said. Not in the mind of someone who pointed it out to you.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:10 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:25 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | snip
If you even bothered to read my original suggestion...
snip
|
Funny you would say so. If you took a second to review what you were actually
replying to, you'd see that this is not about your original suggestion but
about your comment in regards to actual vs inflated shipping charges.
If you are so narrow minded that you can not even understand a few simple sentences
and/or feel the need to bloat it into something that it isnt so it can fit your
agenda, then I am truly sorry for you.
Incredible.
Your remark about trolling is out of place and was taken seriously.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:30 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:03 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | snip
If you even bothered to read my original suggestion...
snip
|
Funny you would say so. If you took a second to review what you were actually
replying to, you'd see that this is not about your original suggestion but
about your comment in regards to actual vs inflated shipping charges.
|
More hogwash from you. The comments I replied to made no such distinction.
| | If you are so narrow minded that you can not even understand a few simple sentences
and/or feel the need to bloat it into something that it isnt so it can fit your
agenda, then I am truly sorry for you.
|
Are you talking about yourself here? Because that is exactly what I thought about
your feeble attempts to sidetrack this thread by making this into a USA versus
the rest of the world issue.
| | Incredible.
Your remark about trolling is out of place and was taken seriously.
|
Good. Trolling needs to be taken more seriously here. Maybe then your posts will
be more objective and intellectually honest.
Thor
|
I see no further reason to reply to this beyond this point, as you are not able
to neither follow the discussion, nor use the phrases that I doubt you even know
the meaning of, nor even able to keep the discussion civil without satisfying
your need to being offensive.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:11 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | BLUSER_424058 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:50 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:56 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
I think it would be much easier for BL to implement 2 things:
Autocheckout with a predetermined shipping and handlingcost (setting by the seller,
if the seller wants to include a 'Whatever I like to add' fee, it will
show as S&H).
Needless to say this works flawless on Brickowl
and the possibility to give an autodiscount for certain payment methods (preset
by the seller), an option that is sitting in the pipeline of 'feature to
add' on Brickowl.
Case closed and no additional programming for any 'extra' feature. Simple
and clear.
Why spend hours of programming 6 or 7 extra features, while they should be concentrating
on programming the essential: checkout with autocalculation of the S&H with
autopayment...
Bye bye PP fees, bye bye lot limit's bye bye additional lotfees / I need
to fill my tank fees / I want you to pay my picking time fees / etc.
Eric
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Saaby | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:10 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
I think it would be much easier for BL to implement 2 things:
Autocheckout with a predetermined shipping and handlingcost (setting by the seller,
if the seller wants to include a 'Whatever I like to add' fee, it will
show as S&H).
Needless to say this works flawless on Brickowl
and the possibility to give an autodiscount for certain payment methods (preset
by the seller), an option that is sitting in the pipeline of 'feature to
add' on Brickowl.
Case closed and no additional programming for any 'extra' feature. Simple
and clear.
Why spend hours of programming 6 or 7 extra features, while they should be concentrating
on programming the essential: checkout with autocalculation of the S&H with
autopayment...
Bye bye PP fees, bye bye lot limit's bye bye additional lotfees / I need
to fill my tank fees / I want you to pay my picking time fees / etc.
Eric
|
It can be made so you can choose whether to use it or not.
Can be placed under "My store settings"
- Yes, I want to use automatic checkout. (Here it will be possible to establish
rates, percentages, etc.)
- No, I'll do the invoice manually.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:16 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I think it would be much easier for BL to implement 2 things:
Autocheckout with a predetermined shipping and handlingcost (setting by the seller,
if the seller wants to include a 'Whatever I like to add' fee, it will
show as S&H).
Needless to say this works flawless on Brickowl
and the possibility to give an autodiscount for certain payment methods (preset
by the seller), an option that is sitting in the pipeline of 'feature to
add' on Brickowl.
Case closed and no additional programming for any 'extra' feature. Simple
and clear.
Why spend hours of programming 6 or 7 extra features, while they should be concentrating
on programming the essential: checkout with autocalculation of the S&H with
autopayment...
Bye bye PP fees, bye bye lot limit's bye bye additional lotfees / I need
to fill my tank fees / I want you to pay my picking time fees / etc.
|
Remember certain people are anti automatic shipping costs since this tends to
overcharge to be on the safe side. Much like working out what fees for packaging
materials will be if they need to be stated before the order is placed.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:31 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Remember certain people are anti automatic shipping costs since this tends to
overcharge to be on the safe side. Much like working out what fees for packaging
materials will be if they need to be stated before the order is placed.
|
Ok, well give me one good reason why I've gotten more orders on the Owl this
month compared to BL (with nearly the same inventory) 
Granted, some buyers still request a quote, but in most cases (for me at least)
it's just a confirmation of the cheapest 'preset' S&H.
And yes, sometimes it plays on a few grams and buyers where charged a higher
shipping on autocheckout, but then it's just a matter of honesty and refunding
part of the shipping through the API only takes a few seconds. This builds credebility
and confidence for the buyer to return to the sellers shop. In 9 months of my
runnings on BO, I total more returning buyers with 3 orders or more then I have
on BL the past year. Most of them because I adjusted their order (and explained
why). Recently I had to remove two 1x6 bricks (0.12 Euro) of an order to drop
the shipping with 3.51 Euro (on 7.02 Euro, so half of it), happy buyer I think
and probably very pleased I redid the 'maths' for him, while the system
followed my 'preset'
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:56 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Remember certain people are anti automatic shipping costs since this tends to
overcharge to be on the safe side. Much like working out what fees for packaging
materials will be if they need to be stated before the order is placed.
|
Ok, well give me one good reason why I've gotten more orders on the Owl this
month compared to BL (with nearly the same inventory)
Granted, some buyers still request a quote, but in most cases (for me at least)
it's just a confirmation of the cheapest 'preset' S&H.
And yes, sometimes it plays on a few grams and buyers where charged a higher
shipping on autocheckout, but then it's just a matter of honesty and refunding
part of the shipping through the API only takes a few seconds. This builds credebility
and confidence for the buyer to return to the sellers shop. In 9 months of my
runnings on BO, I total more returning buyers with 3 orders or more then I have
on BL the past year. Most of them because I adjusted their order (and explained
why). Recently I had to remove two 1x6 bricks (0.12 Euro) of an order to drop
the shipping with 3.51 Euro (on 7.02 Euro, so half of it), happy buyer I think
and probably very pleased I redid the 'maths' for him, while the system
followed my 'preset'
|
While I appreciate sellers who refund me overcharged shipping, I think most sellers
won't be bothered to do this where the overcharge is fairly modest (e.g.
less than one dollar)(1). So, on the whole, I still think that buyers end up
paying more for this certainty.
As a seller, the biggest problem I have with automated shipping calculation is
that it may provide a false exaggerated shipping quote that scares away buyers
and costs me lost orders. One-third of my orders here on BrickLink can be shipped
using much cheaper flat rate envelopes and boxes. I know I can just refund the
difference to my buyers. But I also think SOME buyers will choose not to place
an order if they see a system-generated quote for $20 when their order can actually
ship for only $10.
Thor
(1) I have even read seller terms where they explicitly state that they only
refund shipping overcharges above a certain amount.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
I think it would be much easier for BL to implement 2 things:
Autocheckout with a predetermined shipping and handlingcost (setting by the seller,
if the seller wants to include a 'Whatever I like to add' fee, it will
show as S&H).
Needless to say this works flawless on Brickowl
|
No, this does not work flawless on BO. While there is more certainty there on
what you will pay, that certainty has a cost. You end up paying a little more
because most sellers like to err on the side of caution if you are going to force
them to provide a binding shipping amount before they actually pick and pack
the order.
And AGAIN, this suggestion is NOT about calculating shipping. It is about calculting
FEES. A much simpler and easier task.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:51 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
I think it would be much easier for BL to implement 2 things:
Autocheckout with a predetermined shipping and handlingcost (setting by the seller,
if the seller wants to include a 'Whatever I like to add' fee, it will
show as S&H).
Needless to say this works flawless on Brickowl
|
No, this does not work flawless on BO. While there is more certainty there on
what you will pay, that certainty has a cost. You end up paying a little more
because most sellers like to err on the side of caution if you are going to force
them to provide a binding shipping amount before they actually pick and pack
the order.
And AGAIN, this suggestion is NOT about calculating shipping. It is about calculting
FEES. A much simpler and easier task.
Thor
|
Just as this topic is not about auto-calculating shipping fees, also is your
reply to Eric's post about what he actually said 
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:15 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:19 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
I think it would be much easier for BL to implement 2 things:
Autocheckout with a predetermined shipping and handlingcost (setting by the seller,
if the seller wants to include a 'Whatever I like to add' fee, it will
show as S&H).
Needless to say this works flawless on Brickowl
|
No, this does not work flawless on BO. While there is more certainty there on
what you will pay, that certainty has a cost. You end up paying a little more
because most sellers like to err on the side of caution if you are going to force
them to provide a binding shipping amount before they actually pick and pack
the order.
And AGAIN, this suggestion is NOT about calculating shipping. It is about calculting
FEES. A much simpler and easier task.
Thor
|
Just as this topic is not about auto-calculating shipping fees, also is your
reply to Eric's post about what he actually said
|
Oh please forgive me! I am so terribly sorry about going off on a tangent started
by someone else. Gasp! The horror!
Thor
|
You are forgiven. I am just following my promise to everyone here that I gave
some time ago
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:54 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
I think it would be much easier for BL to implement 2 things:
Autocheckout with a predetermined shipping and handlingcost (setting by the seller,
if the seller wants to include a 'Whatever I like to add' fee, it will
show as S&H).
Needless to say this works flawless on Brickowl
|
No, this does not work flawless on BO. While there is more certainty there on
what you will pay, that certainty has a cost. You end up paying a little more
because most sellers like to err on the side of caution if you are going to force
them to provide a binding shipping amount before they actually pick and pack
the order.
|
I think I had a little more orders on BO then you to be the better judge on that,
but granted, a lot of those orders (certainly in the beginning) have been placed
after providing a quote.
And yes, sellers tend to build a bit of safety, but then it depends on the sellers
honesty to refund the 'excess' if there is any, probably much appreciated
by the buyers, who suddently see their next budget slightly increased and realise
the seller in question is doing the right thing for them, regardless of any presetting.
About 3 weeks ago a buyer checked out on a 12 Euro order and ended up with a
+/-16 Euro shipping (no real size in catalog, so the system used a predetermined
'size', leading the system calculating a 'box', while I could
ship in padded mail), I talked to the buyer and shipped for 4.25 Euro (S&H included),
refunded the rest at once..
| |
And AGAIN, this suggestion is NOT about calculating shipping. It is about calculting
FEES. A much simpler and easier task.
|
Yes I fully understand this suggestion is about fees, and 1 year ago I would
would have pressed that 'yes' button right away, but the competition
is proving a site like this can run without any form of 'additional'
fee, just the cost that is 'preset' in the S&H
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:21 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
Yes I fully understand this suggestion is about fees, and 1 year ago I would
would have pressed that 'yes' button right away, but the competition
is proving a site like this can run without any form of 'additional'
fee, just the cost that is 'preset' in the S&H
|
Ummm... You do realize that sellers do charge fees on BO? Fees are not banned
on BO. They are just buried and hidden in the shipping (or "S&H"). And you actually
think it is better to lump those fees in shipping than to separate and itemize
them? OK, that is your opinion. But as a buyer I like to know both. While the
final price is what ultimately matters to me, I still want to know if my seller
is charging significantly more than actual postage.
Thor
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
Yes I fully understand this suggestion is about fees, and 1 year ago I would
would have pressed that 'yes' button right away, but the competition
is proving a site like this can run without any form of 'additional'
fee, just the cost that is 'preset' in the S&H
|
Ummm... You do realize that sellers do charge fees on BO? Fees are not banned
on BO. They are just buried and hidden in the shipping (or "S&H"). And you actually
think it is better to lump those fees in shipping than to separate and itemize
them? OK, that is your opinion. But as a buyer I like to know both. While the
final price is what ultimately matters to me, I still want to know if my seller
is charging significantly more than actual postage.
Thor
|
Just a minute, I never said ALL sellers set their S&H to the actual cost of shipping
(some do), I also builded in a fixed handling fee into my S&H, but it's 1
cost (S&H) that gets added to the cart of the buyer, so it is up to the sellers
to finetune (and needless to say I have so over the past few months) to make
it work for themselves. But those fees are not hidden, don't need to be compared,
don't need to be calculated by the buyer...
When a buyer adds the exact same things in several shops in cart and check their
total cost of the order, they have something 'comparable'. Wether the
buyer chooses the cheapest or not is uncertain, as he also might be looking at
the location of the seller, the indicated time for processing an order, transit
time, or maybe has been in one of the shops before and was pleased and so won't
mind a slightly more expensive price because of his previous experiance with
that shop. But based on cost only the buyer DOES have a comparable cart, on BL
that is simply not even close to being possible and adding seperate fees won't
help buyers if they cannot see a comparable shippingcost ON TOP of their cart,
even if fees are calculated up front.
And if the seller is doing bad presets and it makes them a lot more expensive
(or are worried about it) they can finetune and TEST it out... The BO system
allows it.
I gave the example earlier in the thread of the buyer ending up with a boxed
shipment, I SIMULATED that same order and figured out it was due to the unknown
size of 2 minifigs, I simply worked it out with the buyer and made a catalog
change for the figs, so that next time this won't happen with another seller...
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:57 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
In a nutshell, you oppose this suggestion because it does not fix the ENTIRE
problem you think exists. We fundamentally differ on two accounts here. First,
we do not agree on what the entire problem may be. Thus, for example, there are
times when I would prefer as both a seller and buyer for shipping to be determined
in the current usual customary manner. Second, you don't want to fix anything
unless it fixes everything 100%, whereas I prefer to fix part of a problem if
the entire problem cannot yet be fixed. When it comes to the "problem" of fees
and the thousands of complaints buyers have made over the years about seller
fees, I am simply of the view that it is better to fix something than nothing.
This suggestion does that. It does not answer everything. But it will most certainly
make things better for buyers.
Thor
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 04:36 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
In a nutshell, you oppose this suggestion because it does not fix the ENTIRE
problem you think exists. We fundamentally differ on two accounts here. First,
we do not agree on what the entire problem may be. Thus, for example, there are
times when I would prefer as both a seller and buyer for shipping to be determined
in the current usual customary manner. Second, you don't want to fix anything
unless it fixes everything 100%, whereas I prefer to fix part of a problem if
the entire problem cannot yet be fixed. When it comes to the "problem" of fees
and the thousands of complaints buyers have made over the years about seller
fees, I am simply of the view that it is better to fix something than nothing.
This suggestion does that. It does not answer everything. But it will most certainly
make things better for buyers.
Thor
|
Putting in efforts into unusefull features would be equal to delaying the setup
of the primary needed feature: that is having (or at least displaying) a total
cost before checkout. I see no reason why developers should waist their precious
time on something that most people do not want (all kinds of additional fees),
when there is a technical need (for some countries at least, and it is by LAW)
for the development of autocalculation of an entire order BEFORE checking out.
Your suggestion is patchwork on something that should be eradicated (and most
likely will be in the long run), I don't see in what way it would be helfull
for buyers, if they STILL can't see the total cost of the order (because
shipping wouldn't be included).
You say I don't want to have something if it isn't 100% fixed, but that's
exacly the point, all that is in your suggestion is pointless because the primary
'extra' cost is the shippingcost (oftenly much higher then any kind of
fee) and represents 70% (estimation) of what is needed, so why spend developers
time on 5 to 10 different fee options if they only represent 30% (estimation)
of the total 'extra' cost
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 04:45 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
In a nutshell, you oppose this suggestion because it does not fix the ENTIRE
problem you think exists. We fundamentally differ on two accounts here. First,
we do not agree on what the entire problem may be. Thus, for example, there are
times when I would prefer as both a seller and buyer for shipping to be determined
in the current usual customary manner. Second, you don't want to fix anything
unless it fixes everything 100%, whereas I prefer to fix part of a problem if
the entire problem cannot yet be fixed. When it comes to the "problem" of fees
and the thousands of complaints buyers have made over the years about seller
fees, I am simply of the view that it is better to fix something than nothing.
This suggestion does that. It does not answer everything. But it will most certainly
make things better for buyers.
Thor
|
Putting in efforts into unusefull features would be equal to delaying the setup
of the primary needed feature: that is having (or at least displaying) a total
cost before checkout. I see no reason why developers should waist their precious
time on something that most people do not want (all kinds of additional fees),
when there is a technical need (for some countries at least, and it is by LAW)
for the development of autocalculation of an entire order BEFORE checking out.
Your suggestion is patchwork on something that should be eradicated (and most
likely will be in the long run), I don't see in what way it would be helfull
for buyers, if they STILL can't see the total cost of the order (because
shipping wouldn't be included).
You say I don't want to have something if it isn't 100% fixed, but that's
exacly the point, all that is in your suggestion is pointless because the primary
'extra' cost is the shippingcost (oftenly much higher then any kind of
fee) and represents 70% (estimation) of what is needed, so why spend developers
time on 5 to 10 different fee options if they only represent 30% (estimation)
of the total 'extra' cost
|
Do you still believe autocalculation is possible? I explained to you last time
it's not..
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 05:18 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Do you still believe autocalculation is possible? I explained to you last time
it's not..
|
I suggest you open a store on BO (if you haven't), and you will be proved
of the contrary. The past few months I had plenty of orders with autocheckout
(so without giving a quote first), and yes some buyers where overcharged when
checking out, but that's mainly due to unknown 'actual' sizes and
weights of certain items (BO is only 1 year old after all). It's just a matter
of time (and with efforts of contributors) to tweak on that, but overal it works
pretty well. And there has been NO CASE (for me at least) where a buyer ended
up with a S&H lower then my actual cost, so as a seller I'm confident I'm
on the safe side (as in: not loosing money on shipment because the system didn't
calculate well). It's all a matter of setting up bandweights and sizes, based
on experiance of many orders in the past. Those that gotten overcharged have
been refunded the difference, what's the big deal?
So don't say it's not possible, because it really works on the competition,
and if it works on the competition, there is no reason whatsoever why it wouldn't
be possible on BL.
As a sidenote: each item on BO can be tagged for a 'force quote' in case
of need, so when an item is somehow a bit special (size or weight wise), a seller
can tick the box 'force quote' and no buyer will be able to checkout
without asking the seller a quote first (I currently do this for minifigs for
example), so soon as 1 item of the buyers cart has the 'force quote'
on, the seller has to provide the quote before there can be a checkout, so while
it requires the action of the seller, the total cost is still displayed to the
buyer BEFORE he places the order and pays, and that is exactly what EU sellers
need to show: FULL COST prior to purchase. Now wether it is automated (by setting
up weight and sizebands) or manual (by providing a quote) is not important, the
important thing is to SHOW FULL COST, before a buyer actually checks out, while
on BL it is the opposite: a buyer checkouts before knowing full cost and is then
OBLIGATED to pay and if he/she doesn't, he/she will be slammed with an NPB.
Nice system
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 05:53 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Do you still believe autocalculation is possible? I explained to you last time
it's not..
|
I suggest you open a store on BO (if you haven't), and you will be proved
of the contrary. The past few months I had plenty of orders with autocheckout
(so without giving a quote first), and yes some buyers where overcharged when
checking out, but that's mainly due to unknown 'actual' sizes and
weights of certain items (BO is only 1 year old after all). It's just a matter
of time (and with efforts of contributors) to tweak on that, but overal it works
pretty well. And there has been NO CASE (for me at least) where a buyer ended
up with a S&H lower then my actual cost, so as a seller I'm confident I'm
on the safe side (as in: not loosing money on shipment because the system didn't
calculate well). It's all a matter of setting up bandweights and sizes, based
on experiance of many orders in the past. Those that gotten overcharged have
been refunded the difference, what's the big deal?
So don't say it's not possible, because it really works on the competition,
and if it works on the competition, there is no reason whatsoever why it wouldn't
be possible on BL.
As a sidenote: each item on BO can be tagged for a 'force quote' in case
of need, so when an item is somehow a bit special (size or weight wise), a seller
can tick the box 'force quote' and no buyer will be able to checkout
without asking the seller a quote first (I currently do this for minifigs for
example), so soon as 1 item of the buyers cart has the 'force quote'
on, the seller has to provide the quote before there can be a checkout, so while
it requires the action of the seller, the total cost is still displayed to the
buyer BEFORE he places the order and pays, and that is exactly what EU sellers
need to show: FULL COST prior to purchase. Now wether it is automated (by setting
up weight and sizebands) or manual (by providing a quote) is not important, the
important thing is to SHOW FULL COST, before a buyer actually checks out, while
on BL it is the opposite: a buyer checkouts before knowing full cost and is then
OBLIGATED to pay and if he/she doesn't, he/she will be slammed with an NPB.
Nice system
|
Uhm, hate to piss in your pool. But it is still impossible Well,
ok, if you allow for incorrect quotes it is possible, but that is very undesirable
because as a buyer I would rather have the assurance the seller will try his
best, than get a shipping quote which turns out to be completely off.
If I as a seller cannot know the shipping cost by just looking at the order on
my screen, how can a system know? Also, there are very few 'force quote'
items for me, it all depends on how well items fit together. For example, arches
are a nightmare to pack economically, but the combination of arches and 1x2 bricks
is fine even if that might be heavier.
I'll just repeat my message from elsewhere in this thread;
If someone outside Europe orders, say, 25x25x3 square cm of parts in my store,
shipping is either going to be EUR 9.45 or EUR 18.- depending on what parts we're
talking about (size? price/fragility?) and what kind of tricks I have up my sleeve
in order to pack it both efficiently and safely, and, admittedly, how much time
I am willing to spend on it (don't get me wrong, for such a big difference,
half an hour of puzzling is fine, I will gladly do that. But there is always
a practical limit somewhere). In that case, I could go and charge EUR 9.45, in
which case I completely ruin my profit if it doesn't work out, or EUR 18.-,
which may be an unnecessary false alarm that'd scare a customer away.
That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 05:57 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Do you still believe autocalculation is possible? I explained to you last time
it's not..
|
I suggest you open a store on BO (if you haven't), and you will be proved
of the contrary. The past few months I had plenty of orders with autocheckout
(so without giving a quote first), and yes some buyers where overcharged when
checking out, but that's mainly due to unknown 'actual' sizes and
weights of certain items (BO is only 1 year old after all). It's just a matter
of time (and with efforts of contributors) to tweak on that, but overal it works
pretty well. And there has been NO CASE (for me at least) where a buyer ended
up with a S&H lower then my actual cost, so as a seller I'm confident I'm
on the safe side (as in: not loosing money on shipment because the system didn't
calculate well). It's all a matter of setting up bandweights and sizes, based
on experiance of many orders in the past. Those that gotten overcharged have
been refunded the difference, what's the big deal?
So don't say it's not possible, because it really works on the competition,
and if it works on the competition, there is no reason whatsoever why it wouldn't
be possible on BL.
As a sidenote: each item on BO can be tagged for a 'force quote' in case
of need, so when an item is somehow a bit special (size or weight wise), a seller
can tick the box 'force quote' and no buyer will be able to checkout
without asking the seller a quote first (I currently do this for minifigs for
example), so soon as 1 item of the buyers cart has the 'force quote'
on, the seller has to provide the quote before there can be a checkout, so while
it requires the action of the seller, the total cost is still displayed to the
buyer BEFORE he places the order and pays, and that is exactly what EU sellers
need to show: FULL COST prior to purchase. Now wether it is automated (by setting
up weight and sizebands) or manual (by providing a quote) is not important, the
important thing is to SHOW FULL COST, before a buyer actually checks out, while
on BL it is the opposite: a buyer checkouts before knowing full cost and is then
OBLIGATED to pay and if he/she doesn't, he/she will be slammed with an NPB.
Nice system
|
Uhm, hate to piss in your pool. But it is still impossible Well,
ok, if you allow for incorrect quotes it is possible, but that is very undesirable
because as a buyer I would rather have the assurance the seller will try his
best, than get a shipping quote which turns out to be completely off.
If I as a seller cannot know the shipping cost by just looking at the order on
my screen, how can a system know? Also, there are very few 'force quote'
items for me, it all depends on how well items fit together. For example, arches
are a nightmare to pack economically, but the combination of arches and 1x2 bricks
is fine even if that might be heavier.
I'll just repeat my message from elsewhere in this thread;
If someone outside Europe orders, say, 25x25x3 square cm of parts in my store,
shipping is either going to be EUR 9.45 or EUR 18.- depending on what parts we're
talking about (size? price/fragility?) and what kind of tricks I have up my sleeve
in order to pack it both efficiently and safely, and, admittedly, how much time
I am willing to spend on it (don't get me wrong, for such a big difference,
half an hour of puzzling is fine, I will gladly do that. But there is always
a practical limit somewhere). In that case, I could go and charge EUR 9.45, in
which case I completely ruin my profit if it doesn't work out, or EUR 18.-,
which may be an unnecessary false alarm that'd scare a customer away.
That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him
|
Besides, the customer gets to verify if the seller really did his best, because
he gets to inspect the package as well. If I just dump 10 bricks into a big box,
I'll get negative feedback and the customer will demand his shipping money
back.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 06:42 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Do you still believe autocalculation is possible? I explained to you last time
it's not..
|
I suggest you open a store on BO (if you haven't), and you will be proved
of the contrary. The past few months I had plenty of orders with autocheckout
(so without giving a quote first), and yes some buyers where overcharged when
checking out, but that's mainly due to unknown 'actual' sizes and
weights of certain items (BO is only 1 year old after all). It's just a matter
of time (and with efforts of contributors) to tweak on that, but overal it works
pretty well. And there has been NO CASE (for me at least) where a buyer ended
up with a S&H lower then my actual cost, so as a seller I'm confident I'm
on the safe side (as in: not loosing money on shipment because the system didn't
calculate well). It's all a matter of setting up bandweights and sizes, based
on experiance of many orders in the past. Those that gotten overcharged have
been refunded the difference, what's the big deal?
So don't say it's not possible, because it really works on the competition,
and if it works on the competition, there is no reason whatsoever why it wouldn't
be possible on BL.
As a sidenote: each item on BO can be tagged for a 'force quote' in case
of need, so when an item is somehow a bit special (size or weight wise), a seller
can tick the box 'force quote' and no buyer will be able to checkout
without asking the seller a quote first (I currently do this for minifigs for
example), so soon as 1 item of the buyers cart has the 'force quote'
on, the seller has to provide the quote before there can be a checkout, so while
it requires the action of the seller, the total cost is still displayed to the
buyer BEFORE he places the order and pays, and that is exactly what EU sellers
need to show: FULL COST prior to purchase. Now wether it is automated (by setting
up weight and sizebands) or manual (by providing a quote) is not important, the
important thing is to SHOW FULL COST, before a buyer actually checks out, while
on BL it is the opposite: a buyer checkouts before knowing full cost and is then
OBLIGATED to pay and if he/she doesn't, he/she will be slammed with an NPB.
Nice system
|
Uhm, hate to piss in your pool. But it is still impossible Well,
ok, if you allow for incorrect quotes it is possible, but that is very undesirable
because as a buyer I would rather have the assurance the seller will try his
best, than get a shipping quote which turns out to be completely off.
If I as a seller cannot know the shipping cost by just looking at the order on
my screen, how can a system know? Also, there are very few 'force quote'
items for me, it all depends on how well items fit together. For example, arches
are a nightmare to pack economically, but the combination of arches and 1x2 bricks
is fine even if that might be heavier.
I'll just repeat my message from elsewhere in this thread;
If someone outside Europe orders, say, 25x25x3 square cm of parts in my store,
shipping is either going to be EUR 9.45 or EUR 18.- depending on what parts we're
talking about (size? price/fragility?) and what kind of tricks I have up my sleeve
in order to pack it both efficiently and safely, and, admittedly, how much time
I am willing to spend on it (don't get me wrong, for such a big difference,
half an hour of puzzling is fine, I will gladly do that. But there is always
a practical limit somewhere). In that case, I could go and charge EUR 9.45, in
which case I completely ruin my profit if it doesn't work out, or EUR 18.-,
which may be an unnecessary false alarm that'd scare a customer away.
That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him
|
I read your first message, but it doesn't change a thing. And there is still
the 'quote' option (the primary way to provide 'full cost'.
If you or any other are uncertain about 'how' a system would calculate,
then just stick to 'quote only', I've done that the first few months,
then I embedded autocheckout for national (those are a good way of exploring
and learning the system) and later on international. It's a learning process,
both for a site, sellers and customers.
Unable to 'estimate' up front just by looking at an order is not possible
for you? Now, with the experiance you have (and many do) I'll bet you can,
I rarely pack an order up front (1% maybe) and it has never put me in trouble
in my 5 selling years on BL.
What I suspect of you and many others is fear, fear that a system will fail on
you, but a system that is correctly set up will be a better judge then you can
be. The chances it would overcalculate dramaticly are slim and in worst case
if by tweaking and wrapping well the order you can save the buyer some money,
then you can still refund.
Let me give you an example of a recent order:
A buyer autochecked out with 88 grams, my limit for 100 grams is 75 grams for
padded mail.
The system calculated size and weight and this gave him a S&H of 7.52 and so
did exactly what I had set up (and no fear, it was a 70% cost compared to his
order value, but he still made the purchase as you can see )
I wrote him to ask wether I was allowed to tweak his order a bit so that it would
fit 100 grams (by taking off a few standard 1x6 bricks), he was ok with that.
I also manually credited an unused coupon (he forgot to use it) and took off
2 bricks, packed light (but decent as usual), resized padded mail and so it fitted
100 grams.
On his initial payment I saved (and refunded) him 26% in total, while he was
comfortable of paying that order in the first place. Not only he is a returning
customer, but I'm sure he'll remember this when he browses my store the
next time, because he knows I'll do my best to give him the best option or
tweak based on my experiance. Did the system do something wrong? No, it did exactly
what I had set up
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:10 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Do you still believe autocalculation is possible? I explained to you last time
it's not..
|
I suggest you open a store on BO (if you haven't), and you will be proved
of the contrary. The past few months I had plenty of orders with autocheckout
(so without giving a quote first), and yes some buyers where overcharged when
checking out, but that's mainly due to unknown 'actual' sizes and
weights of certain items (BO is only 1 year old after all). It's just a matter
of time (and with efforts of contributors) to tweak on that, but overal it works
pretty well. And there has been NO CASE (for me at least) where a buyer ended
up with a S&H lower then my actual cost, so as a seller I'm confident I'm
on the safe side (as in: not loosing money on shipment because the system didn't
calculate well). It's all a matter of setting up bandweights and sizes, based
on experiance of many orders in the past. Those that gotten overcharged have
been refunded the difference, what's the big deal?
So don't say it's not possible, because it really works on the competition,
and if it works on the competition, there is no reason whatsoever why it wouldn't
be possible on BL.
As a sidenote: each item on BO can be tagged for a 'force quote' in case
of need, so when an item is somehow a bit special (size or weight wise), a seller
can tick the box 'force quote' and no buyer will be able to checkout
without asking the seller a quote first (I currently do this for minifigs for
example), so soon as 1 item of the buyers cart has the 'force quote'
on, the seller has to provide the quote before there can be a checkout, so while
it requires the action of the seller, the total cost is still displayed to the
buyer BEFORE he places the order and pays, and that is exactly what EU sellers
need to show: FULL COST prior to purchase. Now wether it is automated (by setting
up weight and sizebands) or manual (by providing a quote) is not important, the
important thing is to SHOW FULL COST, before a buyer actually checks out, while
on BL it is the opposite: a buyer checkouts before knowing full cost and is then
OBLIGATED to pay and if he/she doesn't, he/she will be slammed with an NPB.
Nice system
|
Uhm, hate to piss in your pool. But it is still impossible Well,
ok, if you allow for incorrect quotes it is possible, but that is very undesirable
because as a buyer I would rather have the assurance the seller will try his
best, than get a shipping quote which turns out to be completely off.
If I as a seller cannot know the shipping cost by just looking at the order on
my screen, how can a system know? Also, there are very few 'force quote'
items for me, it all depends on how well items fit together. For example, arches
are a nightmare to pack economically, but the combination of arches and 1x2 bricks
is fine even if that might be heavier.
I'll just repeat my message from elsewhere in this thread;
If someone outside Europe orders, say, 25x25x3 square cm of parts in my store,
shipping is either going to be EUR 9.45 or EUR 18.- depending on what parts we're
talking about (size? price/fragility?) and what kind of tricks I have up my sleeve
in order to pack it both efficiently and safely, and, admittedly, how much time
I am willing to spend on it (don't get me wrong, for such a big difference,
half an hour of puzzling is fine, I will gladly do that. But there is always
a practical limit somewhere). In that case, I could go and charge EUR 9.45, in
which case I completely ruin my profit if it doesn't work out, or EUR 18.-,
which may be an unnecessary false alarm that'd scare a customer away.
That's why I say, just let me handle it! It is a bit like ordering in
a restaurant and demanding to know the exact time when the food is going to arrive.
It's done when it's done, the chef does his best, just trust him
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I read your first message, but it doesn't change a thing. And there is still
the 'quote' option (the primary way to provide 'full cost'.
If you or any other are uncertain about 'how' a system would calculate,
then just stick to 'quote only', I've done that the first few months,
then I embedded autocheckout for national (those are a good way of exploring
and learning the system) and later on international. It's a learning process,
both for a site, sellers and customers.
Unable to 'estimate' up front just by looking at an order is not possible
for you? Now, with the experiance you have (and many do) I'll bet you can,
I rarely pack an order up front (1% maybe) and it has never put me in trouble
in my 5 selling years on BL.
What I suspect of you and many others is fear, fear that a system will fail on
you, but a system that is correctly set up will be a better judge then you can
be. The chances it would overcalculate dramaticly are slim and in worst case
if by tweaking and wrapping well the order you can save the buyer some money,
then you can still refund.
Let me give you an example of a recent order:
A buyer autochecked out with 88 grams, my limit for 100 grams is 75 grams for
padded mail.
The system calculated size and weight and this gave him a S&H of 7.52 and so
did exactly what I had set up (and no fear, it was a 70% cost compared to his
order value, but he still made the purchase as you can see )
I wrote him to ask wether I was allowed to tweak his order a bit so that it would
fit 100 grams (by taking off a few standard 1x6 bricks), he was ok with that.
I also manually credited an unused coupon (he forgot to use it) and took off
2 bricks, packed light (but decent as usual), resized padded mail and so it fitted
100 grams.
On his initial payment I saved (and refunded) him 26% in total, while he was
comfortable of paying that order in the first place. Not only he is a returning
customer, but I'm sure he'll remember this when he browses my store the
next time, because he knows I'll do my best to give him the best option or
tweak based on my experiance. Did the system do something wrong? No, it did exactly
what I had set up
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Hmm, I just signed up with the competition, once I feel I have the courage to
really get things started over there, I hope I'll have a similar learning
experience I will do what you did; stick to the quote system and do auto for
things that are pretty certain.
I don't know how it works in Belgium but over here the mother question of
all questions is:
Can this fit through the mail slot?
And really, if I would get a 300 gram order, your aunt Betty's guess is as
good as mine. It could go either way, 50/50, honestly. And this is the EUR 9.45
/ EUR 18.00 difference we're talking about. Variables:
- Volume
- How do the part puzzle fit together (mulptiple answers here)
- Is it fragile or rare? Better be boxed
- What packaging materials do I have at hand? (for example, I don't have
mailbox boxes, those can optimise what fits considerably, but they are also more
expensive so an extra fee might be needed..?)
- ...
I can be pretty sure sometimes, but hardly ever 100% sure once it gets
over 100 gram. I will have to stick to trying out and giving quotes for many
orders. If more than 10% of those end up cancelled/not placed, then that would
bother me.
So you're right, the system kind of scares me. To me, it feels like a no-confidence
vote. And an undeserved one at that. I reason like; I have a shipping table,
I explain when you know which it's going to be... I ship it out and the buyer
can verify if the option I picked was justified. Total transparency.
Maybe it's technically against EU regulations, but whatever. All these rules
for entrepreneurs kind of put me off. You get treated like you're complete
scum, like you're trying to rip off people at every opportunity. Total contrast
with my other job where everything you do and declare is trusted 100% because
you're a professional. Maybe BL doesn't have the checkout system of a
regular webshop, but it has something more: The feedback system. There's
no room to play tricks on people, everyone is going to know. To me, a system
where people do their best and get exposed when they don't is much
better and more natural than this forced mechanical system where everything MUST
be certain.
Well, I'll see how it goes on BO. Think I'll dive into my administration
software and see if I can calculate any weight / shipment type confidence rates
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:54 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Hmm, I just signed up with the competition
|
Darn, I should have kept quite, now I have another competitor
Kidding offcourse, competition is good to force you to improve yourself
Something some people seem to forget...
| | once I feel I have the courage to
really get things started over there, I hope I'll have a similar learning
experience I will do what you did; stick to the quote system and do auto for
things that are pretty certain.
|
Fact is, you're ahead now, once BL implements it (and it will, I have no
doubt), You'll have the advantage on many other sellers, because you'll
have the experiance by the time BL gets there.
| |
I don't know how it works in Belgium but over here the mother question of
all questions is:
|
Similar to the Netherlands, specific weight bands: here 50gr/100gr/350gr/1Kg/2Kg/5Kg/10kg
in combination with size limitations 5 mm (flatrate) and 30 mm for envelopes,
less limitations on boxes, but needs to be considered for your own sake.
| |
Can this fit through the mail slot?
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correct, 3 cm here (about the lowest in the EU), but remember that in many countries
size is less relevant, so being in a 'difficult' country is a bit of
an advantage I think. Remember your postal service might not care so much about
the size if you're shipping to another country, they couldn't care less
how the mailman in the destiantion country is going to handle your shipment (but
keep in the back those countries also have their regulations)
| |
And really, if I would get a 300 gram order, your aunt Betty's guess is as
good as mine. It could go either way, 50/50, honestly. And this is the EUR 9.45
/ EUR 18.00 difference we're talking about. Variables:
- Volume
- How do the part puzzle fit together (mulptiple answers here)
|
Only applies when you set up weight/sizebands, on a quote and based on you're
experiace you'll be fine with such a system
| | - Is it fragile or rare? Better be boxed
|
tag the item for 'quote only', add a note for yourself or publicly
| | - What packaging materials do I have at hand? (for example, I don't have
mailbox boxes, those can optimise what fits considerably, but they are also more
expensive so an extra fee might be needed..?)
|
Work on average, recycle a bit if you can, build it in your shippingcost, recalculate
over the course of time, adjust your cost along the way (higher or lower S&H).
| | - ...
I can be pretty sure sometimes, but hardly ever 100% sure once it gets
over 100 gram.
|
Weights are pretty accurate, both here and there, build in some reserve (20%).
I've invoiced over 1500 Bricklink customers without picking orders, so what's
the big deal?
And if indeed it's a bit on the edge, then talk to your customer, after all
it is something I've always done on BL as well, taking out a few items to
drop below a certain threshold is usually appreciated by customers
| | I will have to stick to trying out and giving quotes for many
orders. If more than 10% of those end up cancelled/not placed, then that would
bother me.
|
It's less, on the quotes I give, less then 10% do not lead to an order. If
you give a quote, you do it without packing offcourse, just browse the order,
let your experiance determine what it will look like 'packed', add public
comments to unusual items (I have always done that on BL anyway) regarding the
way they have to be packed, that way, when you browse a buyers cart, it will
be obvious for yourself that the item is a bit particular. Thjs is offcourse
also very valid on Bricklink and it's a tool I have used for years for the
exact same reason (invoice before picking)
| |
So you're right, the system kind of scares me. To me, it feels like a no-confidence
vote. And an undeserved one at that. I reason like; I have a shipping table,
I explain when you know which it's going to be... I ship it out and the buyer
can verify if the option I picked was justified. Total transparency.
Maybe it's technically against EU regulations, but whatever. All these rules
for entrepreneurs kind of put me off. You get treated like you're complete
scum, like you're trying to rip off people at every opportunity. Total contrast
with my other job where everything you do and declare is trusted 100% because
you're a professional. Maybe BL doesn't have the checkout system of a
regular webshop, but it has something more: The feedback system. There's
no room to play tricks on people, everyone is going to know. To me, a system
where people do their best and get exposed when they don't is much
better and more natural than this forced mechanical system where everything MUST
be certain.
|
Feedack is another debate (both here and on the competition)
| | Well, I'll see how it goes on BO. Think I'll dive into my administration
software and see if I can calculate any weight / shipment type confidence rates
|
You don't need to rush into setting up weight and sizebands. Keep in mind
this is quite a bit of work and needs a lot of reviewing and tweaking (I probably
spended between 24 and 30 hours on it, the past few months). Your primary target
as a seller is to get orders, when BL implements this, it will also require time
and effort, but your primary target is selling, so if it means you need to stick
to quotes only at first, that's just fine, and buyers clearly do not mind
this.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 10:01 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
In a nutshell, you oppose this suggestion because it does not fix the ENTIRE
problem you think exists. We fundamentally differ on two accounts here. First,
we do not agree on what the entire problem may be. Thus, for example, there are
times when I would prefer as both a seller and buyer for shipping to be determined
in the current usual customary manner. Second, you don't want to fix anything
unless it fixes everything 100%, whereas I prefer to fix part of a problem if
the entire problem cannot yet be fixed. When it comes to the "problem" of fees
and the thousands of complaints buyers have made over the years about seller
fees, I am simply of the view that it is better to fix something than nothing.
This suggestion does that. It does not answer everything. But it will most certainly
make things better for buyers.
Thor
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Putting in efforts into unusefull features would be equal to delaying the setup
of the primary needed feature: that is having (or at least displaying) a total
cost before checkout. I see no reason why developers should waist their precious
time on something that most people do not want (all kinds of additional fees),
|
I agree. But then this suggestion is NOT proposing "all kinds of additional fees".
Please don't misrepresent this suggestion.
| | when there is a technical need (for some countries at least, and it is by LAW)
for the development of autocalculation of an entire order BEFORE checking out.
|
I am going to start a new separate thread to address this side issue.
| | Your suggestion is patchwork on something that should be eradicated (and most
likely will be in the long run), I don't see in what way it would be helfull
for buyers, if they STILL can't see the total cost of the order (because
shipping wouldn't be included).
|
I do. So do many others. Fees have long been a bone of contention for many here
and there have been thousands of buyer-seller disputes relating to only fees,
mainly because those fees were not clearly disclosed to the buyer in advance.
I still cannot believe there are some here who would oppose a suggestion to more
clearly show fees to buyers before they place their order. Unbelievable!
| | You say I don't want to have something if it isn't 100% fixed, but that's
exacly the point, all that is in your suggestion is pointless because the primary
'extra' cost is the shippingcost (oftenly much higher then any kind of
fee) and represents 70% (estimation) of what is needed, so why spend developers
time on 5 to 10 different fee options if they only represent 30% (estimation)
of the total 'extra' cost
|
More misrepresentation. Where in this suggestion was it ever proposed to "spend
developers time on 5 to 10 different fee options"? The intellectual dishonesty
from some in this thread is astounding! My OP quite clearly suggested limiting
fees and listed only FOUR (actually 3, because the first two are pretty much
the same).
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Andy_Bell | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:33 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
Yes I fully understand this suggestion is about fees, and 1 year ago I would
would have pressed that 'yes' button right away, but the competition
is proving a site like this can run without any form of 'additional'
fee, just the cost that is 'preset' in the S&H
|
Ummm... You do realize that sellers do charge fees on BO? Fees are not banned
on BO. They are just buried and hidden in the shipping (or "S&H"). And you actually
think it is better to lump those fees in shipping than to separate and itemize
them? OK, that is your opinion. But as a buyer I like to know both. While the
final price is what ultimately matters to me, I still want to know if my seller
is charging significantly more than actual postage.
Thor
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This post reminds me of this discussion about
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=821836
which discusses how actively promoting a competitor website is in violation of
rule 6 of the Forum Discussion Rules.
Seems to me like comparing and contrasting BL to BO without actively coming out
on the BL side could easily be interpreted to promoting the BO by creating interest
in how the BO system works. So much that they may create an account AND then
buy something; to get experience full; and BL sale lost.
This is dangerous ground.
I may have to make a suggestion to lock the thread and cancel the relevant posts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 05:53 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Andy_Bell writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
Yes I fully understand this suggestion is about fees, and 1 year ago I would
would have pressed that 'yes' button right away, but the competition
is proving a site like this can run without any form of 'additional'
fee, just the cost that is 'preset' in the S&H
|
Ummm... You do realize that sellers do charge fees on BO? Fees are not banned
on BO. They are just buried and hidden in the shipping (or "S&H"). And you actually
think it is better to lump those fees in shipping than to separate and itemize
them? OK, that is your opinion. But as a buyer I like to know both. While the
final price is what ultimately matters to me, I still want to know if my seller
is charging significantly more than actual postage.
Thor
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This post reminds me of this discussion about
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=821836
which discusses how actively promoting a competitor website is in violation of
rule 6 of the Forum Discussion Rules.
Seems to me like comparing and contrasting BL to BO without actively coming out
on the BL side could easily be interpreted to promoting the BO by creating interest
in how the BO system works. So much that they may create an account AND then
buy something; to get experience full; and BL sale lost.
|
Rubbish, comparing BL features and BO features and discussing them is for the
benefit of the development and is with the intention of BL sellers (particulary
in EU) abiding to local LAW's (= displaying total cost before checkout),
and right now BL's archaic way of the buying process is failing on that,
and it also means thousands of (EU-) sellers are not selling according to established
laws and regulations. In the EU, buyers are allowed to cancel their order without
ANY form of punishement if total cost wasn't displayed upfront, yet, this
site still allows an NPB on that. To avoid that, the only thing BL needs to do
is to set up the future system in a way the buyer sees full cost before checking
out, but right now BL is failing on that (and has been for the past 4-5 years
for the German sellers).
Will it be flawless: no, it hasn't been on flawless on BO either
Will it be without pain: no, it takes a lot of effort of both the site(s) and
the sellers
Will it never work on BL: NO: saying that it's not possible is rubbish because
it works elsewhere, so there is no reason it can't be done here.
The first step BL needs to do is to retain 'carts' for a longer period
and undependend of a browser status and regardless of the condition (on/off status)
of the browsingdevice used.
The second step is to build in a quote function, by showing the buyers cart to
the seller.
These 2 things will allow sellers to abide to local law's.
After that weight and sizes bands for autocheckout, complicated but not impossible
(clearly proven).
Indicating that this works on BO is not promoting the competition, it is saying
to BL: IT CAN BE DONE, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
And if a buyer decides to got over and check it out (after reading posts about
it), then who's to blame, the people talking about it, or the fact BL fails
to have a similar feature that it should have had years ago (and particulary
requested by German sellers in the past)
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This is dangerous ground.
I may have to make a suggestion to lock the thread and cancel the relevant posts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 11:17 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:47 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
Yes I fully understand this suggestion is about fees, and 1 year ago I would
would have pressed that 'yes' button right away, but the competition
is proving a site like this can run without any form of 'additional'
fee, just the cost that is 'preset' in the S&H
|
Ummm... You do realize that sellers do charge fees on BO? Fees are not banned
on BO. They are just buried and hidden in the shipping (or "S&H"). And you actually
think it is better to lump those fees in shipping than to separate and itemize
them? OK, that is your opinion.
|
Yes, it is better and I think the vast majority would agree. When I buy from
Amazon or any other company I don't care what else is lumped into the pre-calculated
shipping cost. It's useless information. What would I gain by knowing that
1 cent of the 10 USD shipping cost went into the maintenance of the coffee machine
at the warehouse, 0.5 USD into packaging materials, 5 USD into actual shipping
cost, etc.?
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DitchAFOL | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 00:34 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DitchAFOL | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 00:35 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 12:57 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
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Mega-thread coming. I absolutely love Foster being back. The pablum is gone.
Hunger games is here to stay.
John P
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| | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:08 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
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YES. I have suggested this over a year ago, I really hope this is on their list.
Either a total and complete ban of absolutely *any* fees (except shipping ofc),
or this.
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| | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_424058 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:10 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:16 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
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And the ones who do will be loosing deals faster and faster... untill they realise
they are not running 'well'
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:19 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
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And the ones who do will be loosing deals faster and faster... untill they realise
they are not running 'well'
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So pretty much the same situation as now?
People state up front low fees, overcharge on postage and then get poor feedback.
Just like now people can hide fees, charge them and get poor feedback.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_424058 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:23 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:39 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
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And the ones who do will be loosing deals faster and faster... untill they realise
they are not running 'well'
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The point is that would ruin this suggestion.
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The point is: the suggestion is pointless
Ebay: no fees, only S&H (preferably free)
Amazon: no fees, only S&H
Local online toys stores: No fees, only S&H
Brickowl: No fees, only S&H
Briclink:let's work out a system where sellers can preset fees IT WOULD
BE FOOLISH TO DO SO IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE on the endlessly growing I-net market
with a very clear indication that most websites are working with preset S&H,
doing the opposite, or even considering it is TOTAL NONSENSE
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_424058 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:50 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:12 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
|
And the ones who do will be loosing deals faster and faster... untill they realise
they are not running 'well'
|
The point is that would ruin this suggestion.
|
The point is: the suggestion is pointless
Ebay: no fees, only S&H (preferably free)
Amazon: no fees, only S&H
Local online toys stores: No fees, only S&H
Brickowl: No fees, only S&H
Briclink:let's work out a system where sellers can preset fees IT WOULD
BE FOOLISH TO DO SO IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE on the endlessly growing I-net market
with a very clear indication that most websites are working with preset S&H,
doing the opposite, or even considering it is TOTAL NONSENSE
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I'm getting confused... BO is something way different. Don't compare
here to there. BL is better. Your talking about organized companies, these are
just small sellers.
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Ebay has plenty of small sellers and BO is exactly the same as Bricklink.
| | I often see stores with 2+ extra fees, ontop of high shipping
costs. If BL could force people to have only one handling fee, and an exact shipping
cost, that would help a lot.
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If BL would have just 1 cost (S&H) it would help a lot better and would help
buyers to compare shops in an easier way
Let's assume I have a budget for about 40 Euro and I start browsing and come
up with 5 shops who can offer me what I need.
My carts shows between 32 and 38 Euro.
Then I need to investigate the terms.
One charges 'actual' shipping + a fixed handling fee of 1Euro, but has
no shippingtable (so I need to 'guess'
One charges actual shipping, has a table, but adds 0.35+4% PP fee
One charges actual shipping but with a minimum of xx Euro (I do not knwo wether
that is a lot more then actual shipping or not)
One charges actual shipping, but the average of each lot must be 1 Euro or the
order might get canceled.
One charges actual shipping, a small handling fee, but has a lot limitation of
30 lot's (while I need 35) and charges 0.20 Euro for each additional lot.
I'm gonna spend half an hour calculating to figure out what my best option
is... It should be clear and easy to compare FULL COST of the order, and that
should be BL's priority, not 'trying' to build in extra features
on adding fees.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:34 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| |
Let's assume I have a budget for about 40 Euro and I start browsing and come
up with 5 shops who can offer me what I need.
My carts shows between 32 and 38 Euro.
Then I need to investigate the terms.
One charges 'actual' shipping + a fixed handling fee of 1Euro, but has
no shippingtable (so I need to 'guess'
One charges actual shipping, has a table, but adds 0.35+4% PP fee
One charges actual shipping but with a minimum of xx Euro (I do not knwo wether
that is a lot more then actual shipping or not)
One charges actual shipping, but the average of each lot must be 1 Euro or the
order might get canceled.
One charges actual shipping, a small handling fee, but has a lot limitation of
30 lot's (while I need 35) and charges 0.20 Euro for each additional lot.
I'm gonna spend half an hour calculating to figure out what my best option
is... It should be clear and easy to compare FULL COST of the order, and that
should be BL's priority, not 'trying' to build in extra features
on adding fees.
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Implementing this suggestion will help to clear up SOME of that confusion and
save you time. While it won't tell you the shipping cost, it WILL tell you
if any fees will be charged and how much. That alone can save significant time
for comparison shoppers.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:12 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
|
And the ones who do will be loosing deals faster and faster... untill they realise
they are not running 'well'
|
The point is that would ruin this suggestion.
|
The point is: the suggestion is pointless
Ebay: no fees, only S&H (preferably free)
Amazon: no fees, only S&H
Local online toys stores: No fees, only S&H
Brickowl: No fees, only S&H
Briclink:let's work out a system where sellers can preset fees IT WOULD
BE FOOLISH TO DO SO IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE on the endlessly growing I-net market
with a very clear indication that most websites are working with preset S&H,
doing the opposite, or even considering it is TOTAL NONSENSE
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Foolish is thinking you pay no fees when you are charged "S&H".
The plain fact is that BL is not yet ready to adopt the BO system of automatically
calculating shipping and handling at checkout. One big problem is dealing with
all the different postage rates and services. There are thousands of different
postage rates charged by the world's post offices; hundreds in the USA alone.
Fees are much simpler. Perhaps a dozen of so different types at best, with 2
or 3 accounting for the vast majority. It is just much simpler to code and automatically
calculate these fees. As far as I am concerned, tackling part of a problem is
better than tackling none of it. And as a buyer, it would certainly help to at
least know fees even if shipping is left to be determined later. In my experience
here as a buyer, most sellers are honest and won't play games to get around
this suggestion (if implemented). And let's not forget the fact that unclear
hidden fees have long been a bone of contention for many buyers over the years.
Like I said, one step at a time.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:18 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| |
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
|
And the ones who do will be loosing deals faster and faster... untill they realise
they are not running 'well'
|
The point is that would ruin this suggestion.
|
The point is: the suggestion is pointless
Ebay: no fees, only S&H (preferably free)
Amazon: no fees, only S&H
Local online toys stores: No fees, only S&H
Brickowl: No fees, only S&H
Briclink:let's work out a system where sellers can preset fees IT WOULD
BE FOOLISH TO DO SO IF YOU WANT TO SURVIVE on the endlessly growing I-net market
with a very clear indication that most websites are working with preset S&H,
doing the opposite, or even considering it is TOTAL NONSENSE
|
Foolish is thinking you pay no fees when you are charged "S&H".
The plain fact is that BL is not yet ready to adopt the BO system of automatically
calculating shipping and handling at checkout. One big problem is dealing with
all the different postage rates and services. There are thousands of different
postage rates charged by the world's post offices; hundreds in the USA alone.
Fees are much simpler. Perhaps a dozen of so different types at best, with 2
or 3 accounting for the vast majority. It is just much simpler to code and automatically
calculate these fees.
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What is easier is to not allow the fees in the first place. Tell me a reason
why BL should choose to implement this suggestion, over a complete ban of any
fees except one S&H fee?
| | As far as I am concerned, tackling part of a problem is
better than tackling none of it. And as a buyer, it would certainly help to at
least know fees even if shipping is left to be determined later. In my experience
here as a buyer, most sellers are honest and won't play games to get around
this suggestion (if implemented). And let's not forget the fact that unclear
hidden fees have long been a bone of contention for many buyers over the years.
Like I said, one step at a time.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:47 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | What is easier is to not allow the fees in the first place. Tell me a reason
why BL should choose to implement this suggestion, over a complete ban of any
fees except one S&H fee?
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Sigh... What do you think the "H" in "S&H" means? It is ludicrous to think you
are not paying any fees by simply calling something "S&H" instead.
When I shop online or by mail, I usually get an invoice that does one of two
things. Either it separately itemizes shipping and handling noting two separate
charges, or it lumps them together into one shipping and handling charge. I don't
see how the latter is better than the former. And I certainly don't think
I am NOT paying fees simply because my seller calls it "Shipping and Handling".
Again, what do you think "Handling" means? It certainly does not mean actual
postage. Neither does shipping for that matter.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:30 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | What is easier is to not allow the fees in the first place. Tell me a reason
why BL should choose to implement this suggestion, over a complete ban of any
fees except one S&H fee?
|
Sigh... What do you think the "H" in "S&H" means? It is ludicrous to think you
are not paying any fees by simply calling something "S&H" instead.
When I shop online or by mail, I usually get an invoice that does one of two
things. Either it separately itemizes shipping and handling noting two separate
charges, or it lumps them together into one shipping and handling charge. I don't
see how the latter is better than the former. And I certainly don't think
I am NOT paying fees simply because my seller calls it "Shipping and Handling".
Again, what do you think "Handling" means? It certainly does not mean actual
postage. Neither does shipping for that matter.
Thor
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I bet that when you shop online at just about anywhere else but BL, you see the
actual prices of the items. You dont have to make a dozen calculations in between
few different stores just to see what it will cost you at the end.
Neither I nor anyone else is saying that "shipping and handling" means "no fees".
I dont know why do you keep bringing it up.
What many are saying is that it is better to include all your costs in your pricing,
and have a simple S&H table. Account a little extra for your packaging supplies
or whatever into that table, but dont have half a dozen variables in it. If the
postage is outrageous then off you go to another seller. And who cares if someone
added few extra cents to the actual postage cost anyways, if all it did is helped
the buyer to help identify the store he want to shop at much easier?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:52 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | What is easier is to not allow the fees in the first place. Tell me a reason
why BL should choose to implement this suggestion, over a complete ban of any
fees except one S&H fee?
|
Sigh... What do you think the "H" in "S&H" means? It is ludicrous to think you
are not paying any fees by simply calling something "S&H" instead.
When I shop online or by mail, I usually get an invoice that does one of two
things. Either it separately itemizes shipping and handling noting two separate
charges, or it lumps them together into one shipping and handling charge. I don't
see how the latter is better than the former. And I certainly don't think
I am NOT paying fees simply because my seller calls it "Shipping and Handling".
Again, what do you think "Handling" means? It certainly does not mean actual
postage. Neither does shipping for that matter.
Thor
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I bet that when you shop online at just about anywhere else but BL, you see the
actual prices of the items. You dont have to make a dozen calculations in between
few different stores just to see what it will cost you at the end.
Neither I nor anyone else is saying that "shipping and handling" means "no fees".
I dont know why do you keep bringing it up.
What many are saying is that it is better to include all your costs in your pricing,
and have a simple S&H table. Account a little extra for your packaging supplies
or whatever into that table, but dont have half a dozen variables in it. If the
postage is outrageous then off you go to another seller. And who cares if someone
added few extra cents to the actual postage cost anyways, if all it did is helped
the buyer to help identify the store he want to shop at much easier?
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P.S. once again you have totally failed to address a single word of the message
you replied to
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:35 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:40 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi & enig wrote:
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Come on people!
It doesn't matter who wrote what first.
Don't let this interesting thread turn into this....
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:25 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
I bet that when you shop online at just about anywhere else but BL, you see the
actual prices of the items.
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No you don't. When BestBuy or Amazon advertises something for sale at $9.99,
that is NOT the final actual price of the item. In most cases, in addition to
the listed sales price, you will have to pay sales tax and shipping.
| | You dont have to make a dozen calculations in between
few different stores just to see what it will cost you at the end.
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Nor do you have to do so here on BrickLink. The "dozen calculations" claim is
pure exaggerated hyperbole. I don't find it difficult at all to shop here
on BrickLink and get a good idea of what something will cost in the end. Some
people do. But it is nowhere near the hyperbolic hysteria you claim.
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Neither I nor anyone else is saying that "shipping and handling" means "no fees".
I dont know why do you keep bringing it up.
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Not in so many words. But you did argue for banning fees and replacing it with
"S&H". Once again, let me ask you, what do you think "&H" means?
| | What many are saying is that it is better to include all your costs in your pricing,
and have a simple S&H table.
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Until BL is ready to implement such a feature, this suggestion is the next best
thing. I would have no problems if this suggestion were later replaced by an
automated S&H checkout system. The plain fact is that it may be months or years
(if ever) before BL finally implements the automated checkout feature you want.
Until then, I would rather address some of the problem than none of it.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:49 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
I bet that when you shop online at just about anywhere else but BL, you see the
actual prices of the items.
|
No you don't. When BestBuy or Amazon advertises something for sale at $9.99,
that is NOT the final actual price of the item. In most cases, in addition to
the listed sales price, you will have to pay sales tax and shipping.
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Once again I am asking you to take the whole world into consideration, not just
your back yard. What you are referring to is only applicable in US, and I guess
only if you are buying within your state. I can be wrong a little maybe there
are some other countries where this is applicable but I am not aware of them.
| | | | You dont have to make a dozen calculations in between
few different stores just to see what it will cost you at the end.
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Nor do you have to do so here on BrickLink. The "dozen calculations" claim is
pure exaggerated hyperbole. I don't find it difficult at all to shop here
on BrickLink and get a good idea of what something will cost in the end. Some
people do. But it is nowhere near the hyperbolic hysteria you claim.
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Arguments as to why additional fees are making it more difficult (as opposed
to no fees except S&H) for buyers have been provided for you many times. You
are not bothering to reply.
| | | | Neither I nor anyone else is saying that "shipping and handling" means "no fees".
I dont know why do you keep bringing it up.
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Not in so many words. But you did argue for banning fees and replacing it with
"S&H". Once again, let me ask you, what do you think "&H" means?
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I have already told that but I can tell it in a bit different words just for
you.
&H is whatever you want it to be. That magic number must to NOT be affected by
the size of the order or any other variable other than the estimated weight of
the shopping cart and obviously the destination. If package thickness is a variable,
have two table or provide price ranges or whatever.
| | | | What many are saying is that it is better to include all your costs in your pricing,
and have a simple S&H table.
|
Until BL is ready to implement such a feature, this suggestion is the next best
thing. I would have no problems if this suggestion were later replaced by an
automated S&H checkout system. The plain fact is that it may be months or years
(if ever) before BL finally implements the automated checkout feature you want.
Until then, I would rather address some of the problem than none of it.
Thor
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BL does not have to get ready any more than it is now. ZERO coding required.
Allow only the S&H fee explained above, and the problem is gone.
For the whatever time - why do you think BL should implement your suggestion,
instead of, say, the opposite scenario described above?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:08 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:26 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
YES. I have suggested this over a year ago, I really hope this is on their list.
Either a total and complete ban of absolutely *any* fees (except shipping ofc),
or this.
|
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
|
Or just include the overhead costs in their prices in the first place..
When I walk into a supermarket I do not expect to see:
* employee salary fee
* boss salary fee
* clean-floors fee
* printing the price sticker fee
* putting the item on the shelf fee
* save the dolphins fee
etc
Fees here at BL are designed to fool the buyers and to take advantage of the
sellers who choose to follow fair business practices.
Sellers can use tiered pricing to offer higher price for quantity X and better
prices for quantity XX, if they are so worried to lose money on a bad order once
in a while.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_424058 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:47 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:55 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, Inventrious writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
YES. I have suggested this over a year ago, I really hope this is on their list.
Either a total and complete ban of absolutely *any* fees (except shipping ofc),
or this.
|
Then people will make shipping fees crazy high...
|
Or just include the overhead costs in their prices in the first place..
When I walk into a supermarket I do not expect to see:
* employee salary fee
* boss salary fee
* clean-floors fee
* printing the price sticker fee
* putting the item on the shelf fee
* save the dolphins fee
etc
Fees here at BL are designed to fool the buyers and to take advantage of the
sellers who choose to follow fair business practices.
Sellers can use tiered pricing to offer higher price for quantity X and better
prices for quantity XX, if they are so worried to lose money on a bad order once
in a while.
|
If they do that, who's gonna buy bricks from them? Better yet, who's
gonna see their bricks when they are searching for bricks?
|
There you go, you have an answer as to why some sellers opt to charge fees.
They want to show lower prices than customers will ultimately pay for the parts.
If they included all the overhead costs, for some sellers prices would increase
10-20% and in some cases even more.
You are right, this way they would have much fewer customers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:30 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
There you go, you have an answer as to why some sellers opt to charge fees.
They want to show lower prices than customers will ultimately pay for the parts.
If they included all the overhead costs, for some sellers prices would increase
10-20% and in some cases even more.
|
For someone who so militantly professes to be anti-fee, I find it ironic that
you charge a fee in your shop terms. Not only do you charge a separate additional
fee for certain smaller orders, you also charge "S&H" which apparently is not
exact postage. I guess the "&H" part of that charge over and above actual postage
is magically not a fee simply because you don't actually call it a fee.
Your hypothesis as to why sellers charge fees reeks of militant hypocrisy and
lack of understanding. Most of the larger more experienced and highly reputable
sellers on this site charge modest fees. And it has nothing to do with them trying
to trick buyers into thinking they have lower prices. Many charge a modest fee
on smaller orders because those orders carry higher proportionate costs than
larger bulkier orders. And because they want to encourage those buyers to place
larger orders so they can avoid paying that small fee. These are two very legitimate
reasons and I see no reason to think these sellers are trying to trick anyone
or being greedy.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:18 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
There you go, you have an answer as to why some sellers opt to charge fees.
They want to show lower prices than customers will ultimately pay for the parts.
If they included all the overhead costs, for some sellers prices would increase
10-20% and in some cases even more.
|
For someone who so militantly professes to be anti-fee, I find it ironic that
you charge a fee in your shop terms.
|
In quite a few conversations on the forum I have stated that I charge Payment
fees, I am not hiding that fact. If anything, me arguing against the fees while
charging them myself should only make my arguments stronger, and help you
to realize the fact just how big of a problem it really is. That the only way
to increase your chances of survival in this game is to join it.
| | Not only do you charge a separate additional
fee for certain smaller orders, you also charge "S&H" which apparently is not
exact postage. I guess the "&H" part of that charge over and above actual postage
is magically not a fee simply because you don't actually call it a fee.
|
Please feel free to message every single buyer that I had over 1.5 years and
ask their opinion about my unfair practices of having "handling fees". And then
look at the feedback of some major stores to find out when various handling fees
are becoming a problem. I trust you know where to look.
| | Your hypothesis as to why sellers charge fees reeks of militant hypocrisy and
lack of understanding.
|
I myself have agreed that some of my statements can sometimes count hypocritical,
and explained what I am all about. As far as lack of understanding goes... well
| | Most of the larger more experienced and highly reputable
sellers on this site charge modest fees. And it has nothing to do with them trying
to trick buyers into thinking they have lower prices.
|
That's what you think. Evidence and logic suggests otherwise.
| | Many charge a modest fee
on smaller orders because those orders carry higher proportionate costs than
larger bulkier orders. And because they want to encourage those buyers to place
larger orders so they can avoid paying that small fee. These are two very legitimate
reasons and I see no reason to think these sellers are trying to trick anyone
or being greedy.
Thor
|
Sellers are trying to DISCOURAGE small and nasty orders, sometimes literally
forcing their buyers to go elsewhere (by cancelling their orders).
These sellers have created a fool-proof system where they filter the buyers,
accepting only the orders which do not require much work but gives good return.
Or, charging unwary buyers a load of fees on their small orders.
Does a seller lose a future customer by canceling his order? Yes. But this SAVES
him money. It did not take me long to notice that most buyers are quite consistent
with the type of orders they place. Meaning that if a buyer has placed a naughty
or a very nice the first time, you can be pretty sure that it will be the same
case if he returns. You have been here much longer than me, I trust you have
noticed this general pattern as well.
This shifts the load of the unprofitable orders onto the sellers who do accept
such orders.
Result? The first seller is earning more money by getting the better orders (because
their pricing is better), and by collecting the fees. In turn, the second seller
is earning less because he is losing sales, and at the same time has to deal
with orders that make him lose money. As a result, he has to raise his prices
to keep getting the necessary margins to stay afloat, which makes it even harder
for him to compete.
This is not a rocket science really.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:22 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
There you go, you have an answer as to why some sellers opt to charge fees.
They want to show lower prices than customers will ultimately pay for the parts.
If they included all the overhead costs, for some sellers prices would increase
10-20% and in some cases even more.
|
For someone who so militantly professes to be anti-fee, I find it ironic that
you charge a fee in your shop terms.
|
In quite a few conversations on the forum I have stated that I charge Payment
fees, I am not hiding that fact. If anything, me arguing against the fees while
charging them myself should only make my arguments stronger, and help you
to realize the fact just how big of a problem it really is.
|
| | That the only way
to increase your chances of survival in this game is to join it.
|
Totally wrong, you survive by doing things correctly and having the best deal
on the site. You do not survive by doing what everyone else does. I charge
no fees, had low prices, gave good customer service, did not pinch pennies, and
put the customer first, no matter what.
I survived until I had sold all of my 8700+ sets and 820,000+ parts.
John P
| |
| | Not only do you charge a separate additional
fee for certain smaller orders, you also charge "S&H" which apparently is not
exact postage. I guess the "&H" part of that charge over and above actual postage
is magically not a fee simply because you don't actually call it a fee.
|
Please feel free to message every single buyer that I had over 1.5 years and
ask their opinion about my unfair practices of having "handling fees". And then
look at the feedback of some major stores to find out when various handling fees
are becoming a problem. I trust you know where to look.
| | Your hypothesis as to why sellers charge fees reeks of militant hypocrisy and
lack of understanding.
|
I myself have agreed that some of my statements can sometimes count hypocritical,
and explained what I am all about. As far as lack of understanding goes... well
| | Most of the larger more experienced and highly reputable
sellers on this site charge modest fees. And it has nothing to do with them trying
to trick buyers into thinking they have lower prices.
|
That's what you think. Evidence and logic suggests otherwise.
| | Many charge a modest fee
on smaller orders because those orders carry higher proportionate costs than
larger bulkier orders. And because they want to encourage those buyers to place
larger orders so they can avoid paying that small fee. These are two very legitimate
reasons and I see no reason to think these sellers are trying to trick anyone
or being greedy.
Thor
|
Sellers are trying to DISCOURAGE small and nasty orders, sometimes literally
forcing their buyers to go elsewhere (by cancelling their orders).
These sellers have created a fool-proof system where they filter the buyers,
accepting only the orders which do not require much work but gives good return.
Or, charging unwary buyers a load of fees on their small orders.
Does a seller lose a future customer by canceling his order? Yes. But this SAVES
him money. It did not take me long to notice that most buyers are quite consistent
with the type of orders they place. Meaning that if a buyer has placed a naughty
or a very nice the first time, you can be pretty sure that it will be the same
case if he returns. You have been here much longer than me, I trust you have
noticed this general pattern as well.
This shifts the load of the unprofitable orders onto the sellers who do accept
such orders.
Result? The first seller is earning more money by getting the better orders (because
their pricing is better), and by collecting the fees. In turn, the second seller
is earning less because he is losing sales, and at the same time has to deal
with orders that make him lose money. As a result, he has to raise his prices
to keep getting the necessary margins to stay afloat, which makes it even harder
for him to compete.
This is not a rocket science really.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:37 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
There you go, you have an answer as to why some sellers opt to charge fees.
They want to show lower prices than customers will ultimately pay for the parts.
If they included all the overhead costs, for some sellers prices would increase
10-20% and in some cases even more.
|
For someone who so militantly professes to be anti-fee, I find it ironic that
you charge a fee in your shop terms.
|
In quite a few conversations on the forum I have stated that I charge Payment
fees, I am not hiding that fact. If anything, me arguing against the fees while
charging them myself should only make my arguments stronger, and help you
to realize the fact just how big of a problem it really is.
|
| | That the only way
to increase your chances of survival in this game is to join it.
|
Totally wrong, you survive by doing things correctly and having the best deal
on the site. You do not survive by doing what everyone else does. I charge
no fees, had low prices, gave good customer service, did not pinch pennies, and
put the customer first, no matter what.
I survived until I had sold all of my 8700+ sets and 820,000+ parts.
John P
|
All I can says is - times have changed.
Top 5 seller at BL
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=legostock
http://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?fdbType=1&u=legostock&viewType=shop
http://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?fdbType=2&u=legostock&viewType=shop
you are right. He is not doing as everyone does. And you are right again. His
business is thriving.
| | | |
| | Not only do you charge a separate additional
fee for certain smaller orders, you also charge "S&H" which apparently is not
exact postage. I guess the "&H" part of that charge over and above actual postage
is magically not a fee simply because you don't actually call it a fee.
|
Please feel free to message every single buyer that I had over 1.5 years and
ask their opinion about my unfair practices of having "handling fees". And then
look at the feedback of some major stores to find out when various handling fees
are becoming a problem. I trust you know where to look.
| | Your hypothesis as to why sellers charge fees reeks of militant hypocrisy and
lack of understanding.
|
I myself have agreed that some of my statements can sometimes count hypocritical,
and explained what I am all about. As far as lack of understanding goes... well
| | Most of the larger more experienced and highly reputable
sellers on this site charge modest fees. And it has nothing to do with them trying
to trick buyers into thinking they have lower prices.
|
That's what you think. Evidence and logic suggests otherwise.
| | Many charge a modest fee
on smaller orders because those orders carry higher proportionate costs than
larger bulkier orders. And because they want to encourage those buyers to place
larger orders so they can avoid paying that small fee. These are two very legitimate
reasons and I see no reason to think these sellers are trying to trick anyone
or being greedy.
Thor
|
Sellers are trying to DISCOURAGE small and nasty orders, sometimes literally
forcing their buyers to go elsewhere (by cancelling their orders).
These sellers have created a fool-proof system where they filter the buyers,
accepting only the orders which do not require much work but gives good return.
Or, charging unwary buyers a load of fees on their small orders.
Does a seller lose a future customer by canceling his order? Yes. But this SAVES
him money. It did not take me long to notice that most buyers are quite consistent
with the type of orders they place. Meaning that if a buyer has placed a naughty
or a very nice the first time, you can be pretty sure that it will be the same
case if he returns. You have been here much longer than me, I trust you have
noticed this general pattern as well.
This shifts the load of the unprofitable orders onto the sellers who do accept
such orders.
Result? The first seller is earning more money by getting the better orders (because
their pricing is better), and by collecting the fees. In turn, the second seller
is earning less because he is losing sales, and at the same time has to deal
with orders that make him lose money. As a result, he has to raise his prices
to keep getting the necessary margins to stay afloat, which makes it even harder
for him to compete.
This is not a rocket science really.
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:57 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:58 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| |
There you go, you have an answer as to why some sellers opt to charge fees.
They want to show lower prices than customers will ultimately pay for the parts.
If they included all the overhead costs, for some sellers prices would increase
10-20% and in some cases even more.
|
For someone who so militantly professes to be anti-fee, I find it ironic that
you charge a fee in your shop terms.
|
In quite a few conversations on the forum I have stated that I charge Payment
fees, I am not hiding that fact. If anything, me arguing against the fees while
charging them myself should only make my arguments stronger, and help you
to realize the fact just how big of a problem it really is.
|
| | That the only way
to increase your chances of survival in this game is to join it.
|
Totally wrong, you survive by doing things correctly and having the best deal
on the site. You do not survive by doing what everyone else does. I charge
no fees, had low prices, gave good customer service, did not pinch pennies, and
put the customer first, no matter what.
I survived until I had sold all of my 8700+ sets and 820,000+ parts.
John P
|
All I can says is - times have changed.
Top 5 seller at BL
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=legostock
http://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?fdbType=1&u=legostock&viewType=shop
http://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?fdbType=2&u=legostock&viewType=shop
|
Don't forget this one:
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=legostock
very low number of negatives.
Anyway, there are always aberrations in any statical data.
One Robin does not a spring make.
John P
| | you are right. He is not doing as everyone does. And you are right again. His
business is thriving.
| | | |
| | Not only do you charge a separate additional
fee for certain smaller orders, you also charge "S&H" which apparently is not
exact postage. I guess the "&H" part of that charge over and above actual postage
is magically not a fee simply because you don't actually call it a fee.
|
Please feel free to message every single buyer that I had over 1.5 years and
ask their opinion about my unfair practices of having "handling fees". And then
look at the feedback of some major stores to find out when various handling fees
are becoming a problem. I trust you know where to look.
| | Your hypothesis as to why sellers charge fees reeks of militant hypocrisy and
lack of understanding.
|
I myself have agreed that some of my statements can sometimes count hypocritical,
and explained what I am all about. As far as lack of understanding goes... well
| | Most of the larger more experienced and highly reputable
sellers on this site charge modest fees. And it has nothing to do with them trying
to trick buyers into thinking they have lower prices.
|
That's what you think. Evidence and logic suggests otherwise.
| | Many charge a modest fee
on smaller orders because those orders carry higher proportionate costs than
larger bulkier orders. And because they want to encourage those buyers to place
larger orders so they can avoid paying that small fee. These are two very legitimate
reasons and I see no reason to think these sellers are trying to trick anyone
or being greedy.
Thor
|
Sellers are trying to DISCOURAGE small and nasty orders, sometimes literally
forcing their buyers to go elsewhere (by cancelling their orders).
These sellers have created a fool-proof system where they filter the buyers,
accepting only the orders which do not require much work but gives good return.
Or, charging unwary buyers a load of fees on their small orders.
Does a seller lose a future customer by canceling his order? Yes. But this SAVES
him money. It did not take me long to notice that most buyers are quite consistent
with the type of orders they place. Meaning that if a buyer has placed a naughty
or a very nice the first time, you can be pretty sure that it will be the same
case if he returns. You have been here much longer than me, I trust you have
noticed this general pattern as well.
This shifts the load of the unprofitable orders onto the sellers who do accept
such orders.
Result? The first seller is earning more money by getting the better orders (because
their pricing is better), and by collecting the fees. In turn, the second seller
is earning less because he is losing sales, and at the same time has to deal
with orders that make him lose money. As a result, he has to raise his prices
to keep getting the necessary margins to stay afloat, which makes it even harder
for him to compete.
This is not a rocket science really.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 19:58 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:37 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| The way I see it is that good sellers tend to give all this information anyway,
so the change will not affect them at all. Bad sellers tend to hide information
or inflate costs once an order is placed, and screw the consequences. They will
still be able to do that if postage costs are not stated up front. They will
just overcharge where they can and, again, screw the consequences. So the proposal
changes very little.
There are alternatives, of course, such as automated shipping costs. Now there
are flaws to that. Sellers may tend to overestimate the shipping costs to be
on the safe side, but there are positives too. The buyer knows the full rather
than partial costs of the order before it is placed and they can checkout and
pay there and then. Now we all know if such a suggestion is made, then Foster
will jump on the overcharge flaw and say that it inflates costs for all buyers,
even though that overcharge may only be $1-$2 which is no real different to "close
to actual shipping", or say that BL has managed perfectly well without it for
years and that there is no reason to introduce it.
An alternative is that the order is not a formal contract (whatever that means
as it is different in different countries) until the shipping costs are stated
by the seller and the buyer agrees to them. There is the flaw in this that the
seller has to either pack the order and weigh it, or estimate shipping costs,
and again this would be jumped on if anyone dares to suggest it. Yet in my view
a decent experienced seller would be able to look at the parts in an order and,
especially if they know the weight of the order, be able to come up with a reasonable
estimate of the shipping costs without packing the entire order. *side issue
below. Of course, a seller could still inflate postage costs, but at least this
way a buyer sees them before being obliged to pay them and has the right to pull
out if they think the seller is charging too much. It would also not stop sellers
publishing postage costs and fees on their terms page as now, so a buyer can
still look before purchasing.
You could of course also have a combination of everything where sellers can choose
to either stay as they are and buyers have to read long pages of terms, or declare
all fees except shipping before the order is placed, or have automated shipping,
or let buyers have the opportunity to cancel orders after shipping is declared.
It is not hard to spot that all ways of doing it are flawed, as nothing is perfect
like most things in life. Yet if anyone (who are often ridiculed as the vocal
minority) dares to make a suggestion, then the flaws are pointed out by people
that prefer a different but equally flawed method and nothing gets changed. That
seems to be the bricklink forum way.
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | speshy | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:55 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 16:07 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
Yes thanks, I know about that (someone here told me) but every time I set it
I don't see weights, and it is unset when I look at the page (and I do select
save settings too!) It has never worked for me on multiple browsers.
And by default that should be on for new sellers.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 16:13 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
Yes thanks, I know about that (someone here told me) but every time I set it
I don't see weights, and it is unset when I look at the page (and I do select
save settings too!) It has never worked for me on multiple browsers.
|
There are also other pages with the weight setting:
http://www.bricklink.com/storeSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
and http://www.bricklink.com/pref_seller.asp
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=260
| | And by default that should be on for new sellers.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 16:16 | | Subject: | Re: weights | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
Yes thanks, I know about that (someone here told me) but every time I set it
I don't see weights, and it is unset when I look at the page (and I do select
save settings too!) It has never worked for me on multiple browsers.
|
There are also other pages with the weight setting:
http://www.bricklink.com/storeSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
and http://www.bricklink.com/pref_seller.asp
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=260
|
Yeah, all selected correctly. It's a PITA.
I changed the title so as not to go off tangent on that thread.
| | | | And by default that should be on for new sellers.
|
|
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|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 16:25 | | Subject: | Re: weights | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
Yes thanks, I know about that (someone here told me) but every time I set it
I don't see weights, and it is unset when I look at the page (and I do select
save settings too!) It has never worked for me on multiple browsers.
|
There are also other pages with the weight setting:
http://www.bricklink.com/storeSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
and http://www.bricklink.com/pref_seller.asp
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=260
|
Yeah, all selected correctly. It's a PITA.
I changed the title so as not to go off tangent on that thread.
| | | | And by default that should be on for new sellers.
|
|
|
That is really strange.. this is how the order screen should look when you have
weight settings enabled. Weight for each lot, summary for each batch, and estimated
total weight of all parts in the order.
Have you tried saving the settings on different browsers?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 16:37 | | Subject: | Re: weights | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
Yes thanks, I know about that (someone here told me) but every time I set it
I don't see weights, and it is unset when I look at the page (and I do select
save settings too!) It has never worked for me on multiple browsers.
|
There are also other pages with the weight setting:
http://www.bricklink.com/storeSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
and http://www.bricklink.com/pref_seller.asp
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=260
|
Yeah, all selected correctly. It's a PITA.
I changed the title so as not to go off tangent on that thread.
| | | | And by default that should be on for new sellers.
|
|
|
That is really strange.. this is how the order screen should look when you have
weight settings enabled. Weight for each lot, summary for each batch, and estimated
total weight of all parts in the order.
Have you tried saving the settings on different browsers?
|
I've tried saving it on multiple browsers, and it never worked. But tried
it on my android phone and it does. I've also just tried to turn it off on
my PC, and it doesn't save it correctly, but I can turn it off again on my
phone. I must have something bizarre on my PC that is stopping it. Although I'm
sure I tried it no another PC too. Oh well, I'm happy I can at least turn
it on and leave it on now.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 16:33 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
Yes thanks, I know about that (someone here told me) but every time I set it
I don't see weights, and it is unset when I look at the page (and I do select
save settings too!) It has never worked for me on multiple browsers.
|
There are also other pages with the weight setting:
http://www.bricklink.com/storeSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
and http://www.bricklink.com/pref_seller.asp
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=260
| | And by default that should be on for new sellers.
|
|
I've lived with that fir about 18 months thinking what a pain it is not being
able to change it. I've just tried it on my phone instead of the PC and it
has worked. I never use my phone for BL, just the forum.
Thanks speshy
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | speshy | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 17:30 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| My pleasure. But it sounds like you already knew about the setting--I just
reminded you of it and you solved the problem yourself. Glad to help.
K
. In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, speshy writes:
| | | |
* In fact, it seems crazy to me that BL tells the buyer the weight of the parts
and the total cart weight but that this is not on the order when the seller sees
it. That could be a suggestion, but if it is made, it will again be jumped on
and rubbished in case parts are slightly different weight to that in the database
and the seller makes the choice to rely on it to make an postage cost estimate
and gets it wrong. An easy way around it is to allow for a buffer so if a postage
band if 500g, then make it 480g minus whatever the packaging material weight
is. But again, there would be complaints that it is unfair on the buyer to overestimate.
|
Try this:
http://www.bricklink.com/orderSettings.asp
and check the "Show Item Weight" box
|
Yes thanks, I know about that (someone here told me) but every time I set it
I don't see weights, and it is unset when I look at the page (and I do select
save settings too!) It has never worked for me on multiple browsers.
|
There are also other pages with the weight setting:
http://www.bricklink.com/storeSettings.asp?viewFrom=P
and http://www.bricklink.com/pref_seller.asp
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=260
| | And by default that should be on for new sellers.
|
|
I've lived with that fir about 18 months thinking what a pain it is not being
able to change it. I've just tried it on my phone instead of the PC and it
has worked. I never use my phone for BL, just the forum.
Thanks speshy
|
|
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Proprietor | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 15:54 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
|
Great idea. And there's another way to achieve this without having to do
programming. It's by requiring each store to have a unified fee disclosure
chart, like you see for nutrients of food packages and on credit card bills.
|
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:18 | | Subject: | Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Let's vote, who sides with Foster and who sides with enig?
I predicted a mega-thread and we have a mega thread. I predicted let the games
begin, they have begun. I think that everyone should take a side and vote.
I cannot at this point who is right in this mega-thread, so help me make up
my mind so I can sleep at night and not worry about it.
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold. But then again I like to be hog-tied and spanked.
John P
|
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|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:31 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:39 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
If you can not think of how, then one of the ways is here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=17
What I do if someone needs a $0.02 part is I welcome the buyer to my shop, explain
that no one will be making any money out of the order anyways except PayPal and
my post office, and ship the order 100% free.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:43 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
If you can not think of how, then one of the ways is here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=17
What I do if someone needs a $0.02 part is I welcome the buyer to my shop, explain
that no one will be making any money out of the order anyways except PayPal and
my post office, and ship the order 100% free.
|
That is what I did.
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 23:19 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
If you can not think of how, then one of the ways is here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=17
What I do if someone needs a $0.02 part is I welcome the buyer to my shop, explain
that no one will be making any money out of the order anyways except PayPal and
my post office, and ship the order 100% free.
|
I am not here to give away LEGO for free. I operate my store as a business. If
I go into a LEGO store and want to buy only one brick, they won't let me.
Nor would they let me have it for free. And where would you draw the line? 5
cents? 50 cents? One dollar? And how many buyers would you do this for? 10? 50?
100?
As for minimum purchase amounts, you don't seem to realize that some buyers
only want one or two parts and don't want to spend $5 or $10 more for stuff
they don't need or want. They are perfectly willing to pay the price of the
part, plus shipping and a modest fee. Ban all fees and you will severely limit
the ability of buyers to place very small orders.
Nor is tiered pricing the answer. As a buyer, I hate being told I must buy something
in multiples 10 or 50, especially if I need only 15 or 25.
As much as you lament fees (even though you charge them yourself), you also don't
understand how things work in the real world. LEGO sells Pick-a-Brick parts and
you can place an order for only one brick if that is all you want. But you will
pay $4.95 minimum shipping and handling. It certainly doesn't cost LEGO $4.95
to ship a single part in a bubble mailer. There is a hefty fee built into shipping
such small lightweight orders. But I have never seen LEGO criticized for charging
such a fee. Nor any other online or real world company for doing the same. Only
here on BrickLInk do some consider it a sin to charge fees on small orders. Even
those who themselves charge a 0.45 euro fee on orders below 10 euros.
Thor
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 00:11 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
If you can not think of how, then one of the ways is here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=17
What I do if someone needs a $0.02 part is I welcome the buyer to my shop, explain
that no one will be making any money out of the order anyways except PayPal and
my post office, and ship the order 100% free.
|
I am not here to give away LEGO for free. I operate my store as a business. If
I go into a LEGO store and want to buy only one brick, they won't let me.
Nor would they let me have it for free. And where would you draw the line? 5
cents? 50 cents? One dollar? And how many buyers would you do this for? 10? 50?
100?
|
That would be true if you only got orders that were for a few cents. Giving
away a little now and then does not negate you being here to operate a business.
I managed a small business, 4 million in sales annually, and we gave away a
lot of product. Our sales kept growing for the 13+ years I was the general manager.
At trade shows we gave away hundreds of dollars in product. By giving someone
a 2 cent part, that is the example you used, builds a relationship with buyers.
Quite a few of those I sent freebies to came back later and bought more. You
seem to look at this as if it were all or nothing, or black and white only.
You also said that you actually got a small order like this, not that you had
a lot of them. Basically you are pointing out one side of the spectrum to prove
a point about all the others. Not really valid in that a 2 cent sale is as uncommon
as a $7,000 sale (I had a couple of those.) It never hurts to be generous and
accommodating.
| | As for minimum purchase amounts, you don't seem to realize that some buyers
only want one or two parts and don't want to spend $5 or $10 more for stuff
they don't need or want. They are perfectly willing to pay the price of the
part, plus shipping and a modest fee. Ban all fees and you will severely limit
the ability of buyers to place very small orders.
|
Doesn't happen all that often, at least not to me when I was a seller. Fees
might also ban the small orders by adding in dollars to that 2 cent order. What
you are saying is that small orders become acceptable if you turn them into larger
orders by fees.
John P
| |
Nor is tiered pricing the answer. As a buyer, I hate being told I must buy something
in multiples 10 or 50, especially if I need only 15 or 25.
As much as you lament fees (even though you charge them yourself), you also don't
understand how things work in the real world. LEGO sells Pick-a-Brick parts and
you can place an order for only one brick if that is all you want. But you will
pay $4.95 minimum shipping and handling. It certainly doesn't cost LEGO $4.95
to ship a single part in a bubble mailer. There is a hefty fee built into shipping
such small lightweight orders. But I have never seen LEGO criticized for charging
such a fee. Nor any other online or real world company for doing the same. Only
here on BrickLInk do some consider it a sin to charge fees on small orders. Even
those who themselves charge a 0.45 euro fee on orders below 10 euros.
Thor
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 02:29 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
If you can not think of how, then one of the ways is here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=17
What I do if someone needs a $0.02 part is I welcome the buyer to my shop, explain
that no one will be making any money out of the order anyways except PayPal and
my post office, and ship the order 100% free.
|
I am not here to give away LEGO for free. I operate my store as a business. If
I go into a LEGO store and want to buy only one brick, they won't let me.
Nor would they let me have it for free. And where would you draw the line? 5
cents? 50 cents? One dollar? And how many buyers would you do this for? 10? 50?
100?
|
That would be true if you only got orders that were for a few cents. Giving
away a little now and then does not negate you being here to operate a business.
I managed a small business, 4 million in sales annually, and we gave away a
lot of product. Our sales kept growing for the 13+ years I was the general manager.
At trade shows we gave away hundreds of dollars in product. By giving someone
a 2 cent part, that is the example you used, builds a relationship with buyers.
Quite a few of those I sent freebies to came back later and bought more. You
seem to look at this as if it were all or nothing, or black and white only.
You also said that you actually got a small order like this, not that you had
a lot of them. Basically you are pointing out one side of the spectrum to prove
a point about all the others. Not really valid in that a 2 cent sale is as uncommon
as a $7,000 sale (I had a couple of those.) It never hurts to be generous and
accommodating.
|
Uncommon or not, I just expect ALL my buyers to pay for their orders no matter
how small it may be. Like I said, where do you draw the line? I like black and
white. You place an order you pay for it. I also think the marketing freebies
you give out at trade shows is different than situations where buyers place an
order and you then decide to give it to them for free.
| |
| | As for minimum purchase amounts, you don't seem to realize that some buyers
only want one or two parts and don't want to spend $5 or $10 more for stuff
they don't need or want. They are perfectly willing to pay the price of the
part, plus shipping and a modest fee. Ban all fees and you will severely limit
the ability of buyers to place very small orders.
|
Doesn't happen all that often, at least not to me when I was a seller. Fees
might also ban the small orders by adding in dollars to that 2 cent order. What
you are saying is that small orders become acceptable if you turn them into larger
orders by fees.
|
I see no problem if fees discourage small orders. In fact, that is precisely
why many sellers charge fees on small orders. To discourage them.
And what I am saying is that some buyers are perfectly willing (and actually
prefer) to pay a $1.00 fee to get that one item they need rather than spending
$10 more to get things they don't need.
Thor
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 12:38 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | And what I am saying is that some buyers are perfectly willing (and actually
prefer) to pay a $1.00 fee to get that one item they need rather than spending
$10 more to get things they don't need.
Thor
|
I am sorry, I just cannot imagine a person that does not Need Lego.
John P
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 00:15 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Nor is tiered pricing the answer. As a buyer, I hate being told I must buy something
in multiples 10 or 50, especially if I need only 15 or 25.
|
I think you may be confusing Tiered Pricing with the Bulk number.
The Bulk number requires you to buy items in multiples of that number
Tiered pricing is a price break above a certain quantity.
So, if you need 25 and I set the Bulk number at 20, you are screwed as you can
only order 20 or 40.
But, if I set (only) a tier price at 20 pieces with a 10% price break, you can
still order your 25 pieces and get the price break.
Tiered pricing COULD be a solution to the problem. You could set abnormally
high prices for unusually small quantities to avoid losing money on such orders,
but then move the price down to more reasonable numbers as the quantity goes
up.
1-2 pieces could be 30 cents each
3-6 pieces could be 20 cents each
7-20 pieces could be 10 cents each
21 + pieces could be 5 cents each
That way, people can pay the premium if they only want 2 pieces, and you won't
loos money.
The major flaw with this system is that you will get sorted on the BASE price,
so someone looking for 100 will not know that they can get them from you for
5 cents unless they view the lot in your store to see the tiered discount.
Also it would dis-proportionally overcharge buyers that buy low quantities of
a large number of lots. Of course, this could eliminate the need for lot fees...
Troy
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 02:20 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Nor is tiered pricing the answer. As a buyer, I hate being told I must buy something
in multiples 10 or 50, especially if I need only 15 or 25.
|
I think you may be confusing Tiered Pricing with the Bulk number.
|
Yes, you are correct. I meant the parenthetical bulk pricing. Thanks for correcting
me.
| | The Bulk number requires you to buy items in multiples of that number
Tiered pricing is a price break above a certain quantity.
So, if you need 25 and I set the Bulk number at 20, you are screwed as you can
only order 20 or 40.
But, if I set (only) a tier price at 20 pieces with a 10% price break, you can
still order your 25 pieces and get the price break.
Tiered pricing COULD be a solution to the problem. You could set abnormally
high prices for unusually small quantities to avoid losing money on such orders,
but then move the price down to more reasonable numbers as the quantity goes
up.
1-2 pieces could be 30 cents each
3-6 pieces could be 20 cents each
7-20 pieces could be 10 cents each
21 + pieces could be 5 cents each
That way, people can pay the premium if they only want 2 pieces, and you won't
loos money.
The major flaw with this system is that you will get sorted on the BASE price,
so someone looking for 100 will not know that they can get them from you for
5 cents unless they view the lot in your store to see the tiered discount.
|
That is why I don't like this option as seller. At least as a tool to discourage
small orders. I recall you made a suggestion several years ago that items with
tiered pricing be searchable using the lowest tiered price, not the starting
base price. I voted yes for that and hope it is implemented in BL2.0. If the
suggestion no longer exists, you should make it again so it at least gets on
the development team's list.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 05:51 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
If you can not think of how, then one of the ways is here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=17
What I do if someone needs a $0.02 part is I welcome the buyer to my shop, explain
that no one will be making any money out of the order anyways except PayPal and
my post office, and ship the order 100% free.
|
I am not here to give away LEGO for free. I operate my store as a business.
|
Guess what, me too. The difference between my and your store is that my store
is currently the sole source of income for me. And yet I dont see how giving
away two cents can hurt me.
| | If
I go into a LEGO store and want to buy only one brick, they won't let me.
Nor would they let me have it for free.
And where would you draw the line? 5
cents? 50 cents? One dollar? And how many buyers would you do this for? 10? 50?
100?
|
I am sure that if you approached the employee and asked very nicely, there is
a pretty high chance that you could keep that wanted part of yours for free..
To add to it, in some LEGO stores and LEGO events they even have a rule EXPLICITLY
INSTRUCTING the staff to turn a blind eye on someone "stealing" a few parts and
not confront them.
| | As for minimum purchase amounts, you don't seem to realize that some buyers
only want one or two parts and don't want to spend $5 or $10 more for stuff
they don't need or want. They are perfectly willing to pay the price of the
part, plus shipping and a modest fee. Ban all fees and you will severely limit
the ability of buyers to place very small orders.
Nor is tiered pricing the answer. As a buyer, I hate being told I must buy something
in multiples 10 or 50, especially if I need only 15 or 25.
|
This has been explained to you by mnementh already.
| | As much as you lament fees (even though you charge them yourself), you also don't
understand how things work in the real world. LEGO sells Pick-a-Brick parts and
you can place an order for only one brick if that is all you want. But you will
pay $4.95 minimum shipping and handling. It certainly doesn't cost LEGO $4.95
to ship a single part in a bubble mailer. There is a hefty fee built into shipping
such small lightweight orders. But I have never seen LEGO criticized for charging
such a fee. Nor any other online or real world company for doing the same. Only
here on BrickLInk do some consider it a sin to charge fees on small orders. Even
those who themselves charge a 0.45 euro fee on orders below 10 euros.
Thor
|
I dont understand how things work in the real world? Thank you for this,
it really brightened up my morning
I do actually have a degree in business management and administration you know,
as well as a background in psychology. Both are in between the reasons to stick
around this forum, with you providing excellent entertainment for both.
Although it is getting a little old.
In your eyes, anything and everything that deviates even a tiniest bit from your
own truth is wrong and needs urgent and immediate attention of your OPINION.
If there is resistance - attack with twisting the words and derailing the discussion
while providing false facts, bogus and twisted arguments that you often have
no idea about in the first place, later followed by ignorance and belittling,
and ending with open insults if things are still not going your way.
You have went all the way through in this discussion in just a few hours.
You fail to answer questions motivating that you have already answered (which
you havent), but you keep asking the same questions and using same "arguments"
that have already been answered and explained to you.
Here you are again trying to prove that I am a hypocrite and dont know anything,
by using arguments that have already been replied to you just a few posts back.
Why?
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 20:43 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
Send it to them for free.
John P
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | DadsAFOL | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 23:04 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
1. Use a micropayments account to cut the PayPal fee to $.05
2. Sell your $.02 parts in multiples of x10
3. Charge a minimum postage of $1.93 + $0.20
4. Charge a fee (disclosed of course) for orders under under $5
5. Set your store minimum to $0.20
Lots of ways to build around this to prevent loss on the individual order. Many
times those penny order buyers will come back and place another order. So chalk
it up to "free advertising".
-Jason
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 23:27 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, DadsAFOL writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| |
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold.
|
John, could you please explain how I can build my costs into into the price of
penny parts. Specifically, if a buyer places an order with me for a single $0.02
part (which has actually happened to me) how do I price the $0.37 PayPal fee
and $0.20 cost of the bubble mailer into the price of that part?
Thor
|
1. Use a micropayments account to cut the PayPal fee to $.05
|
That is still 250% more than the price of the part.
| | 2. Sell your $.02 parts in multiples of x10
|
And what if my buyer only needs 5? As a buyer, I hate being told I must buy something
in multiples of 10 or 50 when I only need 15 or 25.
| | 3. Charge a minimum postage of $1.93 + $0.20
|
What is the $0.20 for? A fee?
| | 4. Charge a fee (disclosed of course) for orders under under $5
|
I do. But John and others would not allow that. They want to ban ALL fees.
| | 5. Set your store minimum to $0.20
Lots of ways to build around this to prevent loss on the individual order. Many
times those penny order buyers will come back and place another order. So chalk
it up to "free advertising".
|
Another tiny order for a few penny parts? No thank you. I know some here think
that these buyers will come back to place much larger more profitable orders.
But I think that is wishful thinking. Sure, it is possible, but not likely. As
enig posted above in this thread (and one of the few times when I agreed with
him), buyers generally stay fairly consistent in their buying habits. Buyers
who place small orders tend to continue placing small orders in the future. And
bulk buyers tend to continue buying in bulk in the future. The buying practices
of my own repeat buyers clearly confirm this observation.
Thor
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 06:27 | | Subject: | Re: Let's all vote for the heavy weight champion | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Let's vote, who sides with Foster and who sides with enig?
I predicted a mega-thread and we have a mega thread. I predicted let the games
begin, they have begun. I think that everyone should take a side and vote.
I cannot at this point who is right in this mega-thread, so help me make up
my mind so I can sleep at night and not worry about it.
Of course my opinion is not to allow fees at all, build them into the price of
the the items being sold. But then again I like to be hog-tied and spanked.
John P
|
Not much voting yet, unfortunately. I guess mot many want to take the side of
a troll
My own ideal scenario is neither what Foster, nor what I myself advocate.
I am arguing for the most simplified version possible, because when you allow
even the smallest exceptions then there will be some who start abusing it, which
eventually has a chance of getting out of control. Pretty much the situation
we have with fees here, and also the reason for recent legislation in EU.
What is my ideal scenario?
* All overhead costs that are currently represented as lot fees, average lot
fees and similar, must be included in the original listing price of the item.
* The only single fee allowed is Shipping and Handling fee, which only depends
on a single factor which is the estimated weight (and possible dimensions) of
the shopping cart.
* An exception to charge a small fee on very small orders, for buyers who need
just a few things.
* Allow charging (exact) payment fees, by providing a platform where such fees
are already calculated into the listed price for the buyer (% based fees) or
dynamically added to the S&H prices in the table (fixed fees).
The payment fees is not a difficult thing to do. In his settings buyer could
select a) I pay via PP b) I pay via IBAN c) I pay via IBAN if seller accepts
it, else with PP d) other options. Depending on buyer's setting, he would
see already adjusted prices.
This way, buyers would be able to see:
* actual final prices for items, all fees included. Easy to compare prices between
different sellers
* easy shipping tables, once again for easy comparison of different sellers
* possibility to place small orders by agreeing to pay a small fee
Problems? It is hard to argue for this, because there will always be someone
disagreeing what exactly *small order* is, what *small fee* is and so on. Where
you allow exceptions, there will always be someone taking advantage of it unless
you have very strict rules and enforce them.
So in my replies specifically to Foster, I choose the lesser evil. If it means
that it will bring order into BL, I am willing to adjust my store to what I am
advocating for.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Rolf | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 21:58 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Heck yes!
And also ban percent based fees.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 05:39 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 06:14 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 06:22 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 06:51 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal? For the last 220 order I paid 229.86 PayPal
Fee, I charged 29.56 for Euro-buyers, which turned out to be 27.26. That's
an illegal practice of 2.30 euro. I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal
fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
PayPal fee depends on country and way of paying ( out of funds, etc...). How
do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
Diana
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:05 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal? For the last 220 order I paid 229.86 PayPal
Fee, I charged 29.56 for Euro-buyers, which turned out to be 27.26. That's
an illegal practice of 2.30 euro. I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal
fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
PayPal fee depends on country and way of paying ( out of funds, etc...). How
do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
Diana
|
IBAN is not just for EU-EU transactions only. For example, someone in US can
also pay me via IBAN.
PayPal fees. With a bit of thought, it is not hard at all for BL to implement
a system where PayPal fees are already included in the listing price, accounting
for the different % depending on buyer/seller locations. Jeez, this is something
one can program even in Excel. Not something that a world-class development team
can not tackle
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:16 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal? For the last 220 order I paid 229.86 PayPal
Fee, I charged 29.56 for Euro-buyers, which turned out to be 27.26. That's
an illegal practice of 2.30 euro. I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal
fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
PayPal fee depends on country and way of paying ( out of funds, etc...). How
do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
Diana
|
IBAN is not just for EU-EU transactions only. For example, someone in US can
also pay me via IBAN.
PayPal fees. With a bit of thought, it is not hard at all for BL to implement
a system where PayPal fees are already included in the listing price, accounting
for the different % depending on buyer/seller locations. Jeez, this is something
one can program even in Excel. Not something that a world-class development team
can not tackle
|
You don't pay PayPal fee over the order amount only, but over the grand total.
Including the fee itself, if you charge any
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:25 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal? For the last 220 order I paid 229.86 PayPal
Fee, I charged 29.56 for Euro-buyers, which turned out to be 27.26. That's
an illegal practice of 2.30 euro. I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal
fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
PayPal fee depends on country and way of paying ( out of funds, etc...). How
do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
Diana
|
IBAN is not just for EU-EU transactions only. For example, someone in US can
also pay me via IBAN.
PayPal fees. With a bit of thought, it is not hard at all for BL to implement
a system where PayPal fees are already included in the listing price, accounting
for the different % depending on buyer/seller locations. Jeez, this is something
one can program even in Excel. Not something that a world-class development team
can not tackle
|
You don't pay PayPal fee over the order amount only, but over the grand total.
Including the fee itself, if you charge any
|
That's a good point.. Well, what they could do is add a Paypalpercentage
tag in the invoice. That will return the correct percentage based on the location
of the buyer, so that the seller can either process it into his software or copy
it and calculate things manually.
I think overall the invoice tags are terribly scarse. There are so many things
the BL invoice could add tags for (like currency exchange rate at the moment
of buying).. another one of those things that are extremely easy to add, very
useful, AND not obligatory or changing things in any way for people who don't
need them.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:26 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal? For the last 220 order I paid 229.86 PayPal
Fee, I charged 29.56 for Euro-buyers, which turned out to be 27.26. That's
an illegal practice of 2.30 euro. I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal
fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
PayPal fee depends on country and way of paying ( out of funds, etc...). How
do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
Diana
|
IBAN is not just for EU-EU transactions only. For example, someone in US can
also pay me via IBAN.
PayPal fees. With a bit of thought, it is not hard at all for BL to implement
a system where PayPal fees are already included in the listing price, accounting
for the different % depending on buyer/seller locations. Jeez, this is something
one can program even in Excel. Not something that a world-class development team
can not tackle
|
You don't pay PayPal fee over the order amount only, but over the grand total.
Including the fee itself, if you charge any
|
Yes You can also offer sellers to have dynamic S&H tables, where values depend
on buyer's settings too. For PayPal - the displayed value would be original
cost + PP% + 0.35 EUR or whatever. Say 10 EUR + 3.5% + 0.35 EUR would show up
to your buyer as 10.70 EUR.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Balokki | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 11:12 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| |
You don't pay PayPal fee over the order amount only, but over the grand total.
Including the fee itself, if you charge any
|
Easy to calculate :
if PP fee are 3,4% + 0,35€ (TO=Total order)
PP fee = ((TO+0,35)/(1-0,034))-TO
Roberto
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:17 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
|
And there's another difference in personal preference/philosophy.
| | Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal?
|
Of course I pay VAT.
| | I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
|
I don't think it's fair to pay for the gas if someone brings the money
in cash. These are personal preferences and they are, have been, and will be
tolerated.
| | How do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
|
You seem a professional seller. Do you still type your invoices by hand then?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 07:44 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
|
And there's another difference in personal preference/philosophy.
| | Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal?
|
Of course I pay VAT.
| | I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
|
I don't think it's fair to pay for the gas if someone brings the money
in cash. These are personal preferences and they are, have been, and will be
tolerated.
| | How do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
|
You seem a professional seller. Do you still type your invoices by hand then?
|
I have nothing against personal preferences, just don't call someone else
unfair and illegal. And what on earth does calculating PayPal fees have to do
with Invoices typing by hand? Do you seriously want an answer?
PS, although I don't agree with you on all, I want to thank you for waking
me up and once again searching for PayPal Fees. Soon I will be changing my terms,
charging only what I have to pay My 'Excel sheet' won't be as
large as yours though
Diana
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 08:18 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
|
And there's another difference in personal preference/philosophy.
| | Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal?
|
Of course I pay VAT.
| | I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
|
I don't think it's fair to pay for the gas if someone brings the money
in cash. These are personal preferences and they are, have been, and will be
tolerated.
| | How do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
|
You seem a professional seller. Do you still type your invoices by hand then?
|
I have nothing against personal preferences, just don't call someone else
unfair and illegal. And what on earth does calculating PayPal fees have to do
with Invoices typing by hand? Do you seriously want an answer?
|
Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to call you unfair or illegal. What I
felt like responding to was the proposal of a max EUR 1.- fee. My point was basically,
there's a difference between what we would do and where we
would buy, and going as far as forbidding something. I agree my fee is high,
but these are things within what we should tolerate just as slightly off paypal
fees. What we shouldn't tolerate is unclarity, but your terms contain all
the info so I don't see any problem
As for invoicing, every seller has a different level of automation (we should
start a topic about that soon, I think it's a pretty fun subject ).. all
the way from typing the invoice directly into bricklink with a calculator at
hand, to Excel sheets, to completely automated bookkeeping environments.
As for me, I made my own program that does most things for me. BL generates all
the available tags (item total, payment method, country, ....), I paste that
into the program and it generates the invoice with appropriate grand total with
the correct PayPal fees, VAT and all that jazz. It also keeps some interesting
statistics for tax and entertainment purposes.
| | PS, although I don't agree with you on all, I want to thank you for waking
me up and once again searching for PayPal Fees. Soon I will be changing my terms,
charging only what I have to pay My 'Excel sheet' won't be as
large as yours though
Diana
|
Good luck, it's quite a pain looking up the correct percentages.. I recall
they had this annoying dropdown box instead of a normal list.. obviously they
are not proud of their fees
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 08:07 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 08:22 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, steekstra writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
|
And there's another difference in personal preference/philosophy.
| | Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal?
|
Of course I pay VAT.
| | I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
|
I don't think it's fair to pay for the gas if someone brings the money
in cash. These are personal preferences and they are, have been, and will be
tolerated.
| | How do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
|
You seem a professional seller. Do you still type your invoices by hand then?
|
Hi Teup
Iám not only type invoices by hand, even picking and packing orders all by hand..
Have a nice weekend all.
Steekstra
|
I actually know someone who's trying to automate sorting.. that's
right, the Holy Grail of the Bricklink bizz.. add some Zalando/Wehkamp order
picking machines and you can book your ticket to the Bahamas and watch your bank
account multiply
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TakeAbricK | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 08:31 | | Subject: | Re: Show All Fees on Checkout and in Terms Page | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, steekstra writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, TakeAbricK writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if this has been formally suggested before, but I suggest that
BrickLink revise the format of the Store Terms and Checkout pages to more clearly
show any and all fees the seller will charge for that order.
First, the checkout page... BrickLink should automatically calculate and show
any and all fees that will be added to the order. This is NOT about calculating
shipping. It is about calculating only fees. As such, it should be much simpler
to code. In their Store Settings, each seller will be free to set their own parameters
regarding any fees they may or may not charge. If the fee is conditional and
something like a fee of "up to $1.00" for orders "less than $10.00", this can
also be easily coded, input by the seller in their Store Settings and automatically
calculated by the BrickLink system at checkout. If a fee is not shown on the
checkout page, it cannot be charged later by the seller.
So, on checkout, the page could begin by reading something like:
Order Amount: $88.50
Shipping: To be determined
Packing and Handling Fees: $1.00
OPTIONAL additional line items can include State Sales Tax (if any, for US sellers)
and VAT (if not already included in the prices). Although this option is NOT
part of this suggestion and can be discussed and added later.
Second, the Store Terms page... Information about any and all fees should be
required to be clearly stated at the very top of that page with a minimum of
text (maybe 80 characters or less) to explain it. Information about fees should
not be buried deep in the text of long terms and conditions.
Anything that more clearly shows up-front the fees a buyer may have to pay should
be good for everyone. And, as a seller who does not charge fees on most orders,
I like the idea of my checkout page saying: "Packing and Handling Fees: $0.00".
I anticipate someone will ask how BrickLink will be able to code all the different
fees charged by sellers. First, for this suggestion to work, BrickLink needs
to limit the fees that can be charged. I would include the following as permissible
fees:
1. A simple fixed fee on all orders, or on all orders below a certain amount.
E.g. $1.00 fee on all orders, or $1.00 fee on all orders below $10.00.
2. A variable fee *UP TO* a certain amount on all orders, or orders below a
certain amount. E.g. UP TO $1.00 fee on all orders, or UP TO $1.00 fee on orders
below $10.00. The seller will need to set points where this variable fee changes.
3. PayPal fees (in countries where they are permitted). E.g. 3.9% plus $0.30
for all orders being paid via PayPal. Since most sellers that charge PayPal
fees base it on the total payment amount including shipping, and since shipping
may not be known in advance, sellers will just have to slightly increase the
percentage of the order amount to compensate for the fee portion on shipping.
BL will also need to limit the availability of this fee only to sellers located
in countries where PayPal fees are allowed to be charged to buyers. Thus, this
fee would NOT be available for US sellers.
|
What about if a seller only charges PayPal fee if the buyer is not able to pay
with IBAN?
PayPal fee depends on the country (can be up to 5%).
If a seller charges fee and the order is from the EU, the seller also has to
pay VAT over these charges. It's not much, but it is...
| |
4. Lot fees. E.g. $1.00 fee if there are 50 or more lots in the order, or $1.00
fee if the average lot amount is less than $1.00, or $0.10 fee per lot for all
lots after the 50th lot.
I know some here do not like lot fees, but BrickLink has allowed them for 14
years now and they do serve a legitimate purpose. I ask that you do not let
your aversion to lot fees (or PayPal fees) cause you to vote against this suggestion.
Instead, consider the entire package and the fact that this suggestion will
make fees more clear and obvious to you and all other buyers.
Thor
|
Although I think sellers should put all the fees in their terms and buyers should
read those terms (shown by checkout), I think it's a good suggestion. However,
for sellers who mention it all in there terms already, it wouldn't make any
difference. There are still a lot of buyers who don't read the terms.
Diana
|
I would vote yes, if for European Sellers max fee would be 1.00 euro and max
PayPal Fee 5% + 0.35 euro. I don't have time to use the currency converter
with every order and check how much PayPal fee is for a specific buyer (country
etc.).
You can't make limits in USD only, maybe not even in USD and EURO only.
Diana
|
Hmm.... Kind of unfair my fee is illegal in your book while I do charge the
exact PayPal fee From my point of view it should be the other way around..
but I guess that's Bricklink, maybe in a sense it's a good thing that
we have quite a bit of freedom to set up our shops the way it works for us. But
whatever we do, clarity and transparency is the way to go.
|
But I only charge buyers who are able to pay by IBAN. You charge them all.
|
And there's another difference in personal preference/philosophy.
| | Also I have to pay VAT over all fees I charge. Looking at your store, you don't
pay VAT at all?! Unfair and Illegal?
|
Of course I pay VAT.
| | I don't think it's fair to charge PayPal fee for buyers who can't pay any other way.
|
I don't think it's fair to pay for the gas if someone brings the money
in cash. These are personal preferences and they are, have been, and will be
tolerated.
| | How do you know up front the exact fee? It's impossible imo.
|
You seem a professional seller. Do you still type your invoices by hand then?
|
Hi Teup
Iám not only type invoices by hand, even picking and packing orders all by hand..
|
For that I have a Robot
| |
Have a nice weekend all.
Steekstra
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Oct 24, 2015 11:33 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
|
|
|
USA, North Carolina
Canada, British Columbia
Denmark
Netherlands, Gelderland
United Kingdom, England
Hungary, Hajdú-Bihar
Belgium, Flemish Brabant
Lithuania, Panevėžys
