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| | | Author: | Ice  | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 09:39 | | Subject: | Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 571 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Discarded | |
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| Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
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| | | | | Author: | starbeanie | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 09:41 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 138 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| All Lego ITD accounts are required to have a Brick and Mortar store that has
been in business a certain number of years and sell more than just Lego.
In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Ice | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 09:52 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 106 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, starbeanie writes:
| | All Lego ITD accounts are required to have a Brick and Mortar store that has
been in business a certain number of years and sell more than just Lego.
|
I did contact ITD at lego, and you're right. I was also told they weren't
taking any applications to become an ITD at this time, but to contact them again
next year. The rep said requirements were always changing. I'd be surprised
if they dropped the Brick & Mortar requirement, but an exception for a business
like Bricklink would only make sense to me.
Mark
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| | | | | Author: | George_Lucy | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 09:54 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 130 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Your idea will never happen. Lego is trying to squeeze out resellers. Why, because
business is good and they can. They are making more money then ever and by forcing
people to buy a set or two at a time at retail they make even more. If there
business model was suffering they would not care who bought their product. They
have all the control and until they start to see a difference in their bottom
line they will continue to weed out resellers. As the other poster stated you
have to have a brick and mortar store to sell Lego and they just don't give
it to any one. Bottom line their product their rules we have to deal with it.
n Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
|
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| | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 09:58 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 147 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Sorry, but I have to vote no. This is a minefield that BL itself should avoid
at all costs. First, so as not to risk its relationship with TLG. And second,
because BL itself should not be competing with the many BL sellers who already
provide this service. Nor should BL be controlling, limiting or rationing the
types and quantities of LEGO sets, figures or parts that can be sold here. And
I certainly think BL itself should not sell here.
Thor
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| | | | | | | Author: | George_Lucy | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 10:12 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 107 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Agree totally. It in my opinion is like trying to compete as a contractor buying
a door from Home Depot and trying to compete with them on installing it. They
get the doors for their cost and mark it up you buy it and then are already in
a hole trying to compete with them on installing it. Just seems like a problem
BL does not need. If you are getting something at 40% off retail you are at a
big advantage selling parts pieces or sets at retail then some one who has to
buy at retail! it is just not fair to then ask sellers to stay here.
n Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Sorry, but I have to vote no. This is a minefield that BL itself should avoid
at all costs. First, so as not to risk its relationship with TLG. And second,
because BL itself should not be competing with the many BL sellers who already
provide this service. Nor should BL be controlling, limiting or rationing the
types and quantities of LEGO sets, figures or parts that can be sold here. And
I certainly think BL itself should not sell here.
Thor
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| | | | | | | Author: | Rolf | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 10:17 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Sorry, but I have to vote no. This is a minefield that BL itself should avoid
at all costs. First, so as not to risk its relationship with TLG. And second,
because BL itself should not be competing with the many BL sellers who already
provide this service. Nor should BL be controlling, limiting or rationing the
types and quantities of LEGO sets, figures or parts that can be sold here. And
I certainly think BL itself should not sell here.
Thor
|
Agreed. Only products BL should sell if they want to, should be BrickLink logo
products like shirt or coffee cup. In fact, I made such suggestion ages ago.
lol
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | tomte | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 11:33 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 96 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Hi
the discussion went into a different way.
Have you been banned from the seller accounts in the USA ( ITD )or from Shop
at Home, the retailer unit?
Why does Lego ban people from buying from them at retail prices?
kind regards,
Stefan
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Etown | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 12:53 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, tomte writes:
| | Hi
the discussion went into a different way.
Have you been banned from the seller accounts in the USA ( ITD )or from Shop
at Home, the retailer unit?
Why does Lego ban people from buying from them at retail prices?
kind regards,
Stefan
|
That's a good question. It's obviously part of their current business
model. Why? That could be debated for ages. Some on here even compare the reselling
of LEGO (at retail prices) to the reselling and profiteering of necessities during
crises. To me that borders on ridiculous.
There is certainly a precedent for the buying (at retail prices) and reselling
of collectors items, including many different toys. If you view LEGO as a collectors
item it makes sense that people would want to buy (at retail prices) and resell.
Don't forget there was a time when LEGO didn't even like AFOL's
MOCs. Recently they've begun to embrace them. So, I wouldn't be surprised
to see LEGO embrace it's AFOL's who buy at retail prices at some point
in the future - especially if their annual growth begins to slow. But we will
see about that.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Ice | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 13:02 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 96 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Sorry, but I have to vote no. This is a minefield that BL itself should avoid
at all costs. First, so as not to risk its relationship with TLG. And second,
because BL itself should not be competing with the many BL sellers who already
provide this service. Nor should BL be controlling, limiting or rationing the
types and quantities of LEGO sets, figures or parts that can be sold here. And
I certainly think BL itself should not sell here.
Thor
|
I think BL is already in this minefield, if not a similar one. I don't read
every post, but I have seen threads concerned with Bricklink/Administration not
reacting to bad sellers. There are also concerns about counterfeits entering
the supply chain. What relationship is there between BL and TLG if it is not
to sell legos? What I suggested was selling sets to sellers here that had to
be broken down, that could not be sold as retail sets on the open market. There
is a difference between BL selling sets, and BL supplying sets to sellers at
a discount for parting. TLG has concerns about resellers, BL can mollify this
through it's own Terms of Use.
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| | | | | Author: | BLUSER_156549 | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 10:28 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 140 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
|
I wanted to buy a Star Wars B-wing from my Star Wars shop at Legoland Windsor
and some idiot came in that morning and bought the last 5. Unless he's doing
a MOC with 5 b-wings which is unlikely, the guy was blatantly a reseller. It
annoyed me. That is all
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| | | | | | | Author: | jeslego | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 11:38 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 104 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Olmec_Dan writes:
| | In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
|
I wanted to buy a Star Wars B-wing from my Star Wars shop at Legoland Windsor
and some idiot came in that morning and bought the last 5. Unless he's doing
a MOC with 5 b-wings which is unlikely, the guy was blatantly a reseller. It
annoyed me. That is all
|
For each person who is upset at just having missed a set that sold out, there
will be another person who is elated when it becomes available at another time
and in another place.
If we use profits in dollars as a proxy for interpersonal utility (a lousy measure,
until you look at the alternatives), a very good case can be made the the reseller
believes more happiness is created by his buying and reselling the set than by
leaving it on the shelf for someone else. (Though he may not know that this
is what he believes in the context of our assumption.)
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 102 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bljesprop writes:
| |
For each person who is upset at just having missed a set that sold out, there
will be another person who is elated when it becomes available at another time
and in another place.
If we use profits in dollars as a proxy for interpersonal utility (a lousy measure,
until you look at the alternatives), a very good case can be made the the reseller
believes more happiness is created by his buying and reselling the set than by
leaving it on the shelf for someone else. (Though he may not know that this
is what he believes in the context of our assumption.)
|
So basically zero value was added by the resale activity, or possibly negative
value if the person who bought from the reseller could have more easily (or more
cheaply) bought elsewhere if resellers had not bought up all the inventory.
But whatever makes you feel good about your activities, is fine with me, as long
as you limit them to non necessities.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jeslego | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 15:48 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, bljesprop writes:
| |
For each person who is upset at just having missed a set that sold out, there
will be another person who is elated when it becomes available at another time
and in another place.
If we use profits in dollars as a proxy for interpersonal utility (a lousy measure,
until you look at the alternatives), a very good case can be made the the reseller
believes more happiness is created by his buying and reselling the set than by
leaving it on the shelf for someone else. (Though he may not know that this
is what he believes in the context of our assumption.)
|
So basically zero value was added by the resale activity, or possibly negative
value if the person who bought from the reseller could have more easily (or more
cheaply) bought elsewhere if resellers had not bought up all the inventory.
But whatever makes you feel good about your activities, is fine with me, as long
as you limit them to non necessities.
|
Sometimes value is added by the resale activity. Sometimes it is not. The resllers
motivation is actually the creation of profit and not the creation of value.
But the former is much easier when the latter occurs. And the reseller, as
a student of the broader market, is probably better able to maximize value than
a customer.
The allocation of life essentials (food, water, sometimes shelter, etc) under
circumstances where people might die is a bit outside of this discussion. You
are referring to the creation of a local monopoly (duopoly, oligopoly) and many
consider it a form of extortion. LEGO is fun, but food and water are at a whole
different level.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Ice | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 13:32 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | | | I wanted to buy a Star Wars B-wing from my Star Wars shop at Legoland Windsor
and some idiot came in that morning and bought the last 5. Unless he's doing
a MOC with 5 b-wings which is unlikely, the guy was blatantly a reseller. It
annoyed me. That is all
|
For each person who is upset at just having missed a set that sold out, there
will be another person who is elated when it becomes available at another time
and in another place.
If we use profits in dollars as a proxy for interpersonal utility (a lousy measure,
until you look at the alternatives), a very good case can be made the the reseller
believes more happiness is created by his buying and reselling the set than by
leaving it on the shelf for someone else. (Though he may not know that this
is what he believes in the context of our assumption.)
|
Epistemological issues aside, profit is not the foundational reason most of us
became sellers. We discovered legos as adults. A new perspective. To a foundation
of good memories was added great new possibilities. Budget concerns popped up,
and in the search for economical purchases reselling was discovered. Some never
became resellers, but were happy buying just what they needed without having
to purchase unneeded parts. Others became resellers, but the spectrum is wide,
including those who just break even to those who work for a profit.
Profits aren't as easy as they use to be. Set prices increase as pieces per
set seem to go down. PaB may become the priceguide of the future. For now, I
believe it is more than just profits that motivate people to be resellers. I
feel lego will always be the best plastic brick on the market, but if they don't
learn to work with the market and someone clone maker does, resellers won't
be TLG big problem. I'm still positve working with us is the better choice.
Mark
Mark
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 14:21 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 148 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | learn to work with the market and someone clone maker does, resellers won't
be TLG big problem. I'm still positve working with us is the better choice.
|
You may think that, but LEGO certainly does not.
The things you describe, wholesaling to other sellers and parting out sets, are
strictly forbidden by LEGO in their ITD Terms of Service. Not only are you required
to have a Brick and Mortar store, but you are expected to sell the items you
purchase from LEGO through that store at the retail level.
It does not matter if you are an AFOL supporting your hobby.
It doesn't matter if you have been displaying mocs to the public for 15 years
supporting their product.
It doesn't matter that parting out sets supports all the great MOC builders
out there.
LEGO wants you to buy your sets at retail and they want you to buy your piece
from them.
Troy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 14:36 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | learn to work with the market and someone clone maker does, resellers won't
be TLG big problem. I'm still positve working with us is the better choice.
|
You may think that, but LEGO certainly does not.
The things you describe, wholesaling to other sellers and parting out sets, are
strictly forbidden by LEGO in their ITD Terms of Service. Not only are you required
to have a Brick and Mortar store, but you are expected to sell the items you
purchase from LEGO through that store at the retail level.
It does not matter if you are an AFOL supporting your hobby.
It doesn't matter if you have been displaying mocs to the public for 15 years
supporting their product.
It doesn't matter that parting out sets supports all the great MOC builders
out there.
LEGO wants you to buy your sets at retail and they want you to buy your piece
from them.
Troy
|
Do they ever ask to see sales receipts or the books? Otherwise, how would they
know if an ITD was selling to Resellers? How would the ITD know if they were,
for that matter? For example, if a friend got setup as an ITD, and I was their
sole customer of Lego goods, they make their cut, I make mine, how would Lego
ever know? All they would see is that sales were increasing at the ITD. Is there
a copy of the ITD ToS we could view?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 14:41 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | learn to work with the market and someone clone maker does, resellers won't
be TLG big problem. I'm still positve working with us is the better choice.
|
You may think that, but LEGO certainly does not.
The things you describe, wholesaling to other sellers and parting out sets, are
strictly forbidden by LEGO in their ITD Terms of Service. Not only are you required
to have a Brick and Mortar store, but you are expected to sell the items you
purchase from LEGO through that store at the retail level.
It does not matter if you are an AFOL supporting your hobby.
It doesn't matter if you have been displaying mocs to the public for 15 years
supporting their product.
It doesn't matter that parting out sets supports all the great MOC builders
out there.
LEGO wants you to buy your sets at retail and they want you to buy your piece
from them.
Troy
|
Do they ever ask to see sales receipts or the books? Otherwise, how would they
know if an ITD was selling to Resellers? How would the ITD know if they were,
for that matter? For example, if a friend got setup as an ITD, and I was their
sole customer of Lego goods, they make their cut, I make mine, how would Lego
ever know? All they would see is that sales were increasing at the ITD. Is there
a copy of the ITD ToS we could view?
|
They would know because the "friend" would be selling 500 City sets and 10 Star
Wars sets.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 14:45 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | learn to work with the market and someone clone maker does, resellers won't
be TLG big problem. I'm still positve working with us is the better choice.
|
You may think that, but LEGO certainly does not.
The things you describe, wholesaling to other sellers and parting out sets, are
strictly forbidden by LEGO in their ITD Terms of Service. Not only are you required
to have a Brick and Mortar store, but you are expected to sell the items you
purchase from LEGO through that store at the retail level.
It does not matter if you are an AFOL supporting your hobby.
It doesn't matter if you have been displaying mocs to the public for 15 years
supporting their product.
It doesn't matter that parting out sets supports all the great MOC builders
out there.
LEGO wants you to buy your sets at retail and they want you to buy your piece
from them.
Troy
|
Do they ever ask to see sales receipts or the books? Otherwise, how would they
know if an ITD was selling to Resellers? How would the ITD know if they were,
for that matter? For example, if a friend got setup as an ITD, and I was their
sole customer of Lego goods, they make their cut, I make mine, how would Lego
ever know? All they would see is that sales were increasing at the ITD. Is there
a copy of the ITD ToS we could view?
|
They would know because the "friend" would be selling 500 City sets and 10 Star
Wars sets.
Scott
|
Not sure what method they would be using, but if the ITD had to purchase so much
other crap to get the stuff they wanted to order, would they care? If they would
normally order $5k and put in an order for $10k, do you think they would ask
a lot of questions?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 15:05 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 111 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | Not sure what method they would be using, but if the ITD had to purchase so much
other crap to get the stuff they wanted to order, would they care? If they would
normally order $5k and put in an order for $10k, do you think they would ask
a lot of questions?
|
Yes, they would, and they do. I get questioned on my orders all the time. Why
are you ordering so much of this? Why are you ordering so much of that? Minifigs
should only be X% of your total order.
They have it all figured out what you SHOULD be selling, and if you stray from
that, the questions can start. And yes, I have had my orders cut down. They
cut my order of the Movie minifigs in half.
It does not make sense, but LEGO is VERY corporate and they like things run their
way. And they are the top brand, so they can get their way. I probably shouldn't
even be talking about this stuff, because if they cut me off I'll be out
of business with a huge lease hanging over me.
Troy
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Oryx_Bricks | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 17:59 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 14:48 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | learn to work with the market and someone clone maker does, resellers won't
be TLG big problem. I'm still positve working with us is the better choice.
|
You may think that, but LEGO certainly does not.
The things you describe, wholesaling to other sellers and parting out sets, are
strictly forbidden by LEGO in their ITD Terms of Service. Not only are you required
to have a Brick and Mortar store, but you are expected to sell the items you
purchase from LEGO through that store at the retail level.
It does not matter if you are an AFOL supporting your hobby.
It doesn't matter if you have been displaying mocs to the public for 15 years
supporting their product.
It doesn't matter that parting out sets supports all the great MOC builders
out there.
LEGO wants you to buy your sets at retail and they want you to buy your piece
from them.
Troy
|
Where are the terms of service that prohibit resale? Are they in the terms of
service I agreed to when using their web site, or signing up for the VIP card?
This I believe.
But if I go into the Lego store, and make a purchase, and do not use my VIP card,
am I agreeing to any terms of service related to not reselling the product?
What about going into a retail outlet, and buying the product. I don't recall
agreeing to any terms of service there.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 15:18 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 128 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | Where are the terms of service that prohibit resale? Are they in the terms of
service I agreed to when using their web site, or signing up for the VIP card?
This I believe.
But if I go into the Lego store, and make a purchase, and do not use my VIP card,
am I agreeing to any terms of service related to not reselling the product?
What about going into a retail outlet, and buying the product. I don't recall
agreeing to any terms of service there.
|
From the S@H website:
Retailers/businesses
These Conditions only apply to consumers and do not apply to retailers or business
owners/companies. LEGO defines retailers or business owners/companies as those
who place orders where the items/products cannot be expected to be ordered for
personal use. In these circumstances LEGO can cancel the order without being
liable in any way.
I can not find any terms for the VIP program online, but I am sure that they
have them, and I am sure that it is in there.
Brand retail can and will limit your buying, using the "can not be expected to
be ordered for personal use" test.
LEGO also can and will exert pressure on other retailers. Why do you think that
there are limits on exclusive sets from Amazon? Why do you thing Amazon does
not regularly discount exclusive sets any more?
At the core though, nothing LEGO does will stop the determined reseller. It
will just stop those people that were playing by the rules to begin with. Everyone
else will go the multiple accounts / multiple address route.
Troy
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 16:06 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | Where are the terms of service that prohibit resale? Are they in the terms of
service I agreed to when using their web site, or signing up for the VIP card?
This I believe.
But if I go into the Lego store, and make a purchase, and do not use my VIP card,
am I agreeing to any terms of service related to not reselling the product?
What about going into a retail outlet, and buying the product. I don't recall
agreeing to any terms of service there.
|
From the S@H website:
Retailers/businesses
These Conditions only apply to consumers and do not apply to retailers or business
owners/companies. LEGO defines retailers or business owners/companies as those
who place orders where the items/products cannot be expected to be ordered for
personal use. In these circumstances LEGO can cancel the order without being
liable in any way.
I can not find any terms for the VIP program online, but I am sure that they
have them, and I am sure that it is in there.
Brand retail can and will limit your buying, using the "can not be expected to
be ordered for personal use" test.
LEGO also can and will exert pressure on other retailers. Why do you think that
there are limits on exclusive sets from Amazon? Why do you thing Amazon does
not regularly discount exclusive sets any more?
At the core though, nothing LEGO does will stop the determined reseller. It
will just stop those people that were playing by the rules to begin with. Everyone
else will go the multiple accounts / multiple address route.
Troy
|
There are people who just have general respect for rules, who believe that if
they agree to a set of rules, or make a choice to use a service where a set of
rules applies, they should follow them.
I was in this category for a while, but am more recently having very mixed feelings
about it. My mixed feelings are less about me following the rules as they are
about me engaging in business transactions where I know the other party is breaking
such rules.
So basically the no resell policy, an an official policy that buyers actually
agree to, is limited to S@H, and possibly the VIP program (but for this we are
not yet sure).
I can get 5% off at Target using my red card. I don't remember the terms
of my red card well enough to know if it had a no resale clause, and since it
is not an activity I have any plans to engage in I would not make a point of
remembering such a clause.
I can buy Disney gift cards using this 5% discount, and then buy Lego in Downtown
Disney charging it to my room (and getting my VIP points) and then use my Disney
gift cards to pay my room bill.
This is the best savings I can now get, since I no longer have a Disney annual
pass.
However, I don't live near a Downtown Disney, and after my upcoming October
trip do not plan to visit again for a few years.
But maybe if I lose my job I will move to the Orlando area, and engage in the
re-selling of Lego and Disney merchandise.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 16:19 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 112 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | Where are the terms of service that prohibit resale?
|
|
|
...
| | | | From the S@H website:
Retailers/businesses
These Conditions only apply to consumers and do not apply to retailers or business
owners/companies. LEGO defines retailers or business owners/companies as those
who place orders where the items/products cannot be expected to be ordered for
personal use. In these circumstances LEGO can cancel the order without being
liable in any way.
|
|
...
| |
So basically the no resell policy, an an official policy that buyers actually
agree to, is limited to S@H, and possibly the VIP program (but for this we are
not yet sure).
|
Not even those, really. The terms above do not state that you are not allowed
to resell stuff you buy from S@H. They say that if Lego thinks you are a reseller,
they can cancel your account. You are allowed to do whatever you want with purchases
that they do not cancel.
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | connie | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 16:07 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 105 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | Where are the terms of service that prohibit resale? Are they in the terms of
service I agreed to when using their web site, or signing up for the VIP card?
This I believe.
But if I go into the Lego store, and make a purchase, and do not use my VIP card,
am I agreeing to any terms of service related to not reselling the product?
What about going into a retail outlet, and buying the product. I don't recall
agreeing to any terms of service there.
|
From the S@H website:
Retailers/businesses
These Conditions only apply to consumers and do not apply to retailers or business
owners/companies. LEGO defines retailers or business owners/companies as those
who place orders where the items/products cannot be expected to be ordered for
personal use. In these circumstances LEGO can cancel the order without being
liable in any way.
I can not find any terms for the VIP program online, but I am sure that they
have them, and I am sure that it is in there.
Brand retail can and will limit your buying, using the "can not be expected to
be ordered for personal use" test.
LEGO also can and will exert pressure on other retailers. Why do you think that
there are limits on exclusive sets from Amazon? Why do you thing Amazon does
not regularly discount exclusive sets any more?
At the core though, nothing LEGO does will stop the determined reseller. It
will just stop those people that were playing by the rules to begin with. Everyone
else will go the multiple accounts / multiple address route.
Troy
|
Funny you should mention that last paragraph. I ordered 2 sale items from amazon
and they canceled my order. When I called them they said I could not have them
because I had ordered 2 the month before. They told me next time to get a friend
to order them for me. LOL
Connie
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 22:22 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 112 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, connie writes:
| | Funny you should mention that last paragraph. I ordered 2 sale items from amazon
and they canceled my order. When I called them they said I could not have them
because I had ordered 2 the month before. They told me next time to get a friend
to order them for me. LOL
|
Be careful if you do this. If you have a friend order for you be sure to have
them ship the item to themselves and NOT to your address. If your friend orders
it for you and has it shipped to YOUR address, they can lose their amazon account
for "circumventing item limits".
This does happen, and as with being Blacklisted from S@H, there is no way to
"fix" it. Once they kill your account you can not open another one using the
same information.
Troy
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 11:50 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 105 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 13:34 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
|
Voted No
Let's keep Bricklink in the "Improving the Bricklink website business sometime
before 2020" business before sending them off on some other adventure.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 14:51 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
|
I don understand what gets solved by this suggestion. S@H does not want to sell
to resellers. Why would they then want to sell (at a discount) to a distributor
whose sole purpose is to sell to resellers? They would have exactly the thing
they are trying to stop, plus they would be making less money.
--
Marc.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | May 18, 2014 14:55 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I don't think is something Bricklink should be taking on.
However,
Have you considered forming your own coop with other sellers, for this purpose?
Are the "other" (lower demand) sets that TLG forces ITDs to buy sets that at
least part out well for resale parts?
If they do, then being forced to buy them is not necessarily a bad thing.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | erector | | Posted: | May 19, 2014 12:35 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 150 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| TLG may be trying to stop the Lego investment market
created by brickpicker.com that advises which sets to
invest in for maximum profits in the least time. They
say Lego sets investing brings much better results than Wall
Street investments. If thousands of people start this it could
dry up the Lego set market.
http://www.brickpicker.com/
In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | bb144181 | | Posted: | May 19, 2014 20:57 | | Subject: | Re: Banned from S@H - create BL@H | | Viewed: | 113 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, erector writes:
| | TLG may be trying to stop the Lego investment market
created by brickpicker.com that advises which sets to
invest in for maximum profits in the least time. They
say Lego sets investing brings much better results than Wall
Street investments. If thousands of people start this it could
dry up the Lego set market.
http://www.brickpicker.com/
Bricklink has thousands of active resellers, both of sets and parts. Do you really think LEGO wants you to part out a LEGO set for more money than you paid for it? If LEGO has a problem with Brickpicker, then they have an even bigger issue with Bricklink, which actually SELLS the sets without them making any profit from a second sale of a set. Brickpicker actually promotes buying LEGO sets from LEGO S@H and other primary retailers, something Bricklink never does.
In Suggestions, Ice writes:
| | Hi,
I may be among the newly banned from S@H. Got a letter earlier this month, existing
orders were cancelled, but haven't ordered more since to confirm I can't
buy.
I want to suggest Bricklink a possible expansion, source for new revenues, and
protection of investment. Working with TLG to become a distributor, or provide
and oversee a distribution line to Bricklink sellers.
I don't believe Bricklink sellers are the resellers TLG is most concerned
with. I would like to see a S@H channel that has some/all the benefits of S@H,
but not the volume limitation on sets purchased. BL and TLG are supposed to be
cooperating, and it would serve both of them to sell to the sellers here.
Reselling concerns could be addressed, even monitored. I'm not familiar with
the Minecraft problem, but problem sets need not be included in the BL@H channel.
This may not work for set sellers, but alternative packaging could be made available,
using basic or generic packaging to help reduce costs, or existing packaging
that has been damaged to prevent resale(like a hot rod pressed through the labels
of records, or covers torn from books). TLG sells mostly sets, we sell parts
that don't compete with most of their core sales.
Bricklink could watch the stores that are involved in this channel, and handle
any store that sells in a way it shouldn't. Start out with purchase limitations
for stores until they have histories or existing inventories that would qualify
for larger purchases. Make sure the parts from sets sold to the stores through
BL@H show up in those store's inventories. Bricklink should get a cut of
any BL@H purchase, plus the normal commision when a store sells those parts.
TLG makes money, makes fans happy, and reduces liability exposure to unhappy
customers. Also, buyers are still able to get parts they need that TLG is not
going to supply. Most PaB parts are way too expensive compared to prices here.
Bricklink is a fan site with commercial practices, but those practices would
be impossible to duplicate profitably with our love for the brick. If I were
to hire someone to do what I do here, unless it is at a special reduced minimum
wage, no profit would be made.
I have to believe an idea like this has already been kicked around. I don't
know why it wouldn't have been explored, but banning sellers and fans from
making economic purchases could change how people feel, could change how TLG
is perceived. Bricklink has been a success, but business have to grow and change
to remain a success.
I would like to ask Bricklink to develop a product distribution channel with
The Lego Group for Bricklink sellers.
Mark Koeberl
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USA, Wisconsin
Germany, Bayern
Canada, Alberta
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Friesland