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| | | Author: | yorbrick  | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2014 09:43 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 514 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Discarded | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2014 11:09 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 177 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
I would prefer if these sellers first got a warning. I tend to be the sort that
likes to give people 2nd chances.
If one wanted to hurt such sellers, they could just turn them into paypal.
For those who openly state this on their splash page, it would take one look
by paypal and not only would paypal revoke their ability to use the friend's
and family option, they might start collecting the fees for past payments.
I did see a post on another site where someone had lost their right to use paypal
at all, due to this practice. Paypal wanted them to pay the 3% on past transactions.
Personally, I have decided to just NOT make the purchase from such a seller recently.
They had some wording saying it was my choice, and I could choose to pay more
for shipping and fees, or choose the friends and family option.
They seemed to emphasize that it was my own choice in their wording.
Upon reading this, instead of completing the check out, I emptied my cart and
went to another store.
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2014 12:21 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 111 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
I would prefer if these sellers first got a warning. I tend to be the sort that
likes to give people 2nd chances.
|
Yes, you are correct. First a warning, then store closure until they comply.
With more and more new buyers, it is important that stores behave correctly as
businesses. Especially ones that are featured or highlighted.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2014 13:40 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 102 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
I would prefer if these sellers first got a warning. I tend to be the sort that
likes to give people 2nd chances.
|
Yes, you are correct. First a warning, then store closure until they comply.
With more and more new buyers, it is important that stores behave correctly as
businesses. Especially ones that are featured or highlighted.
|
I agree. First - warning, and a temporary suspension to edit their terms if needed.
And then permanent ban if it starts happening again.
There is a store that was reported a while ago.. For openly stating that they
*never* declare true value on packages for customs, and also stating that buyers
must either choose to pay extra fees, or send a friend/family payment.
Terms got edited. But the request to send personal PP payments has never left
their page, it just got hidden deeper in their terms.
Who wants to wager their $5 for my $100 that absolutely NOTHING will happen
to the seller if I report it again? You get $100 store credit to spend in my
shop if the seller gets banned for this repeat offense.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2014 14:36 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 101 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
I would prefer if these sellers first got a warning. I tend to be the sort that
likes to give people 2nd chances.
|
Yes, you are correct. First a warning, then store closure until they comply.
With more and more new buyers, it is important that stores behave correctly as
businesses. Especially ones that are featured or highlighted.
|
I agree. First - warning, and a temporary suspension to edit their terms if needed.
And then permanent ban if it starts happening again.
There is a store that was reported a while ago.. For openly stating that they
*never* declare true value on packages for customs, and also stating that buyers
must either choose to pay extra fees, or send a friend/family payment.
Terms got edited. But the request to send personal PP payments has never left
their page, it just got hidden deeper in their terms.
Who wants to wager their $5 for my $100 that absolutely NOTHING will happen
to the seller if I report it again? You get $100 store credit to spend in my
shop if the seller gets banned for this repeat offense.
|
I would make the wager IF you were reporting it to PayPal and BrickLink, and
if I could win if either PayPal OR Bricklink did anything that caused the seller
to change their terms.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2014 17:37 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 147 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
I would prefer if these sellers first got a warning. I tend to be the sort that
likes to give people 2nd chances.
|
Yes, you are correct. First a warning, then store closure until they comply.
With more and more new buyers, it is important that stores behave correctly as
businesses. Especially ones that are featured or highlighted.
|
I agree. First - warning, and a temporary suspension to edit their terms if needed.
And then permanent ban if it starts happening again.
There is a store that was reported a while ago.. For openly stating that they
*never* declare true value on packages for customs, and also stating that buyers
must either choose to pay extra fees, or send a friend/family payment.
Terms got edited. But the request to send personal PP payments has never left
their page, it just got hidden deeper in their terms.
Who wants to wager their $5 for my $100 that absolutely NOTHING will happen
to the seller if I report it again? You get $100 store credit to spend in my
shop if the seller gets banned for this repeat offense.
|
I would make the wager IF you were reporting it to PayPal and BrickLink, and
if I could win if either PayPal OR Bricklink did anything that caused the seller
to change their terms.
|
We can get the seller to change his written terms, no problem. But it would fall
under "no consequence" tab in my book. This seller not only used to do it, but
continues asking for personal payments, despite having been told to change
his terms. That was 5 months ago. Customs thing got deleted, but the line regarding
personal payments got buried in his terms a bit deeper, where admin probably
did not see.
* That seller is also insulting his buyers.
* If someone reads into feedback, it is clear that horrible condition used bricks
sometimes leave the shop too.
buyer no read store therms - problem buyer big waring !!!
Reply: R U kidding? Negative for what? Your Brick were terrible-I gave neutral.
very bad customer!!!
Reply: I gave you a feedback just "neutral" even your brick is too dirty...sorry
This too:
no serious buyer
Reply: Seller abuses feedback to retaliate a neutral. See Forum Message ID 783691
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=783691
But, as we know, you are pretty much free to do anything your want with your
buyers here. It does not matter if you bring a bad name to BrickLink or break
the rules (or keep breaking them despite being told not to). As long as you keep
your BL fees* and refunds straight, you have no chance to get yourself kicked
out no matter how hard you try.
Do you think that sellers like that belong to BL, or that any seller risks getting
banned for the offenses mentioned above?
My offer still stands for anyone who is willing to risk their $5, if this seller
gets permanently banned. Hell, I will drop in free worldwide shipping to go with
$100 coupon 
*I am not trying to make a point that BL fees is all that matters to BL. Your
shop gets temporarily suspended if you do not pay your BL fees within a month.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rick_S. | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 12:42 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | My offer still stands for anyone who is willing to risk their $5, if this seller
gets permanently banned. Hell, I will drop in free worldwide shipping to go with
$100 coupon
|
who is this seller?
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| | | | | | | Author: | Rick_S. | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 12:38 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
I would prefer if these sellers first got a warning. I tend to be the sort that
likes to give people 2nd chances.
If one wanted to hurt such sellers, they could just turn them into paypal.
For those who openly state this on their splash page, it would take one look
by paypal and not only would paypal revoke their ability to use the friend's
and family option, they might start collecting the fees for past payments.
I did see a post on another site where someone had lost their right to use paypal
at all, due to this practice. Paypal wanted them to pay the 3% on past transactions.
Personally, I have decided to just NOT make the purchase from such a seller recently.
They had some wording saying it was my choice, and I could choose to pay more
for shipping and fees, or choose the friends and family option.
They seemed to emphasize that it was my own choice in their wording.
Upon reading this, instead of completing the check out, I emptied my cart and
went to another store.
|
Actually that also violates PayPals ToC by charging more, no matter what they
call it to pay thru other then personal, also think it violates certain retail
laws too concerning the adding of charges to use a credit card or not.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:02 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Asterios writes:
| | Actually that also violates PayPals ToC by charging more, no matter what they
call it to pay thru other then personal, also think it violates certain retail
laws too concerning the adding of charges to use a credit card or not.
|
It depends on where the account is registered. US accounts can't tack Paypal
fees on when you pay by Paypal, per Paypal TOS. European accounts are fully
allowed to do so because they have different TOS.
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| | | | | Author: | SimplyBricks | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2014 14:04 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 141 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
This has absolutely nothing to do with Bricklink! Remember Bricklink is a VENUE
for selling and buying and do NOT get involved in the order process!
However, this is NOT allowed according to Paypal TOS, such violations should
be reported to Paypal and not Bricklink!
Mike
Personal view and not the view of the inventory admin!!!!!!
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| | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 10:34 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SimplyBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
This has absolutely nothing to do with Bricklink! Remember Bricklink is a VENUE
for selling and buying and do NOT get involved in the order process!
However, this is NOT allowed according to Paypal TOS, such violations should
be reported to Paypal and not Bricklink!
Mike
Personal view and not the view of the inventory admin!!!!!!
|
Does not BrickLink set exchange rates? They did at one time.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:06 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | Does not BrickLink set exchange rates? They did at one time.
|
No. They pull exchange rate data from XE.com on an hourly basis.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:09 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | Does not BrickLink set exchange rates? They did at one time.
|
No. They pull exchange rate data from XE.com on an hourly basis.
|
But that is the official rate that Bricklink allows. At one time the seller
could use any exchange rate they want to. Now they cannot. So bricklink does
set something and can be involved in something that has nothing to do with bricklink.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:23 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | Does not BrickLink set exchange rates? They did at one time.
|
No. They pull exchange rate data from XE.com on an hourly basis.
|
But that is the official rate that Bricklink allows. At one time the seller
could use any exchange rate they want to. Now they cannot. So bricklink does
set something and can be involved in something that has nothing to do with bricklink.
John P
|
I also want BL to do something about it. And they should. It is not about enforcing
PayPal's rules. It is about protecting the buyer from possible fraud and
keeping BL's image as a clean and safe site. Or at least trying to make the
buyer's BrickLink buying experience as pleasant and trouble-free as possible.
Looking out for one's customers and keeping things clean and upfront here
is undoubtedly in BrickLink's best interests as a business.
How many buyers here know that paying via F&F waives their buyer protection rights
and leaves them with no recourse if something goes wrong? And how many sellers
who ask for F&F payments tell their buyer they are unprotected if they pay this
way? So far I have NEVER seen any seller caution their buyer when requesting
this form of payment. Never.
PayPal is popular with buyers because PayPal promotes itself as being safe and
buyers fully believe they are safer when paying via PayPal. They are safer because
PayPal gives them buyer protection. How do you think a buyer will feel about
BrickLink if he gets burned by a BL seller who hid this waiver in a BL invoice?
A BL feature that actually enables the seller to pull off this deception? BL
can say it is not responsible all it wants. But this is poor customer service
and not a very good attitude to take, especially if BL had prior knowledge this
sort of trickery was being done via the BL invoicing system.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 23:32 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | Does not BrickLink set exchange rates? They did at one time.
|
No. They pull exchange rate data from XE.com on an hourly basis.
|
But that is the official rate that Bricklink allows. At one time the seller
could use any exchange rate they want to. Now they cannot. So bricklink does
set something and can be involved in something that has nothing to do with bricklink.
John P
|
I also want BL to do something about it. And they should. It is not about enforcing
PayPal's rules. It is about protecting the buyer from possible fraud and
keeping BL's image as a clean and safe site. Or at least trying to make the
buyer's BrickLink buying experience as pleasant and trouble-free as possible.
Looking out for one's customers and keeping things clean and upfront here
is undoubtedly in BrickLink's best interests as a business.
How many buyers here know that paying via F&F waives their buyer protection rights
and leaves them with no recourse if something goes wrong? And how many sellers
who ask for F&F payments tell their buyer they are unprotected if they pay this
way? So far I have NEVER seen any seller caution their buyer when requesting
this form of payment. Never.
PayPal is popular with buyers because PayPal promotes itself as being safe and
buyers fully believe they are safer when paying via PayPal. They are safer because
PayPal gives them buyer protection. How do you think a buyer will feel about
BrickLink if he gets burned by a BL seller who hid this waiver in a BL invoice?
A BL feature that actually enables the seller to pull off this deception? BL
can say it is not responsible all it wants. But this is poor customer service
and not a very good attitude to take, especially if BL had prior knowledge this
sort of trickery was being done via the BL invoicing system.
Thor
|
OMG we agree on something, Pretty soon cats and dogs will start sleeping together.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:31 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | But that is the official rate that Bricklink allows. At one time the seller
could use any exchange rate they want to. Now they cannot. So bricklink does
set something and can be involved in something that has nothing to do with bricklink.
|
Setting the exchange rate and dictating _who_ can set the exchange rate are so
very not the same thing. If BL set the exchange rates, they would likely not
change more than once per day, if not longer. And sellers or buyers who felt
they were getting the short end of the stick would be very vocal about it. It
also eliminates the possibility of a seller allowing buyers to shop in their
store seeing prices in Guilders, when they only accept payment in Florins, and
they use purposefully misleading exchange rates to make the price of their wares
seem extremely low to buyers in a Guilder-based economy.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 23:30 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | But that is the official rate that Bricklink allows. At one time the seller
could use any exchange rate they want to. Now they cannot. So bricklink does
set something and can be involved in something that has nothing to do with bricklink.
|
Setting the exchange rate and dictating _who_ can set the exchange rate are so
very not the same thing. If BL set the exchange rates, they would likely not
change more than once per day, if not longer. And sellers or buyers who felt
they were getting the short end of the stick would be very vocal about it. It
also eliminates the possibility of a seller allowing buyers to shop in their
store seeing prices in Guilders, when they only accept payment in Florins, and
they use purposefully misleading exchange rates to make the price of their wares
seem extremely low to buyers in a Guilder-based economy.
|
The point being that BL can do things outside of NSS and all that. They can
dictate that the exchange rate for deals on BL will be based on an outside source.
Nothing more and nothing less. They could if they wished enforce paypals rules
about who can charge the fee for using paypal. They could if they chose castigate
(or castrate) and expel buyers who ask a seller to lie and break the law. Sadly
they do not. BL is actually part of the problem there because they tacitly approve
that behavior by letting it continue. They do not want to lose customers that
are dishonest.
What I am saying is bricklink can do whatever they want and they chose not to
do whatever they want.
John P
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| | | | | Author: | bb469871 | | Posted: | Apr 3, 2014 16:08 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 181 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 10:22 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 126 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
I just want to mention here that Amanda has been true to her word about how BL
will handle these problems. I reported a BL seller doing this and the BL CS Team
took prompt action to correct them. See:
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=829116
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 10:36 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I just want to mention here that Amanda has been true to her word about how BL
will handle these problems. I reported a BL seller doing this and the BL CS Team
took prompt action to correct them. See:
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=829116
Thor
|
One I reported a month ago is still selling with his terms unchanged - no fees
for paypal, then in small print much lower down must pay using friends payment.
I've cancelled it and tried reporting it again.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:11 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 105 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | I just want to mention here that Amanda has been true to her word about how BL
will handle these problems. I reported a BL seller doing this and the BL CS Team
took prompt action to correct them. See:
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=829116
Thor
|
One I reported a month ago is still selling with his terms unchanged - no fees
for paypal, then in small print much lower down must pay using friends payment.
I've cancelled it and tried reporting it again.
|
Can Amanda or anyone else on the CS Team comment about this?
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb469871 | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 17:01 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 126 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Hi everyone,
If you reported a member for suggesting friends and family payment, then it should
have been handled. However, there are times when things have been missed and
for that I apologize.
The current BL website has extremely limited admin related functions, which often
makes it difficult to do our job. For instance, there is no system in place to
flag members for future followup. We can leave notes about issues for future
reference, but this hasn't been an established procedure in the past. This
means that we may not have records for repeat problem members. To address this,
we have been developing set procedures for handling CS related issues, and also
working on an external system to allow the CS Team better tracking of problem
members and active issues.
I also checked with CS Sean, since he usually handles problem member reports.
He sometimes asks the seller to remove the friends and family info from their
terms before suspending the store. If they respond quickly and agree, he will
check to see if they are gone, and then consider the problem resolved. However,
there is nothing stopping them from going in later and changing them back or
burying them elsewhere in the terms or on the invoice. Many things have been
handled on the honor system around here, and unfortunately, some choose to abuse
it. In those cases, we can only ask that you report them again so we can take
further action.
I also wanted to let you know that the couple of members reported earlier today
in this thread have now been contacted and informed that this violates Paypal
terms and therefore is not allowed on BL.
I know these situations are frustrating for you, but please know that they are
also very frustrating for us. We don't want members violating the rules anymore
than you do.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
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| | | | | | | Author: | bobnikolov | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:16 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=B.Rick76
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:29 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bobnikolov writes:
| | In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=B.Rick76
|
Thanks for the link. I recommend that a Danish member report this seller to PayPal's
Danish help desk. I reported several US sellers who did this and PayPal was very
interested. During our conversation I asked how I could report non-US sellers
and they said I would have to go through PayPal's customer service or fraud
hotline for the country or region where the seller was located.
Report these sellers... to both BrickLink and PayPal. What they are doing is
fraud and not at all innocent. Complaining about them won't accomplish anything.
Reporting them will, or at least might.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bobnikolov | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, bobnikolov writes:
| | In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=B.Rick76
|
Thanks for the link. I recommend that a Danish member report this seller to PayPal's
Danish help desk. I reported several US sellers who did this and PayPal was very
interested. During our conversation I asked how I could report non-US sellers
and they said I would have to go through PayPal's customer service or fraud
hotline for the country or region where the seller was located.
Report these sellers... to both BrickLink and PayPal. What they are doing is
fraud and not at all innocent. Complaining about them won't accomplish anything.
Reporting them will, or at least might.
Thor
|
Here is another
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=PolS
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 10:36 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
How about when the buyer asks for a lower value on the customs forms? Why does
BL not care about that? Asking a seller to lie and so the sellers that do have
an advantage over honest sellers. Should BL not care about that?
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | ScootersBricks | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 23:49 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
How about when the buyer asks for a lower value on the customs forms? Why does
BL not care about that? Asking a seller to lie and so the sellers that do have
an advantage over honest sellers. Should BL not care about that?
John P
|
And if we refuse to do so, that buyer can threaten (and succeed in) leaving negative
or neutral feedback because we refused to be complicit in a felony.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 23:58 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ScootersBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
How about when the buyer asks for a lower value on the customs forms? Why does
BL not care about that? Asking a seller to lie and so the sellers that do have
an advantage over honest sellers. Should BL not care about that?
John P
|
And if we refuse to do so, that buyer can threaten (and succeed in) leaving negative
or neutral feedback because we refused to be complicit in a felony.
|
I believe that if an order is cancelled by the seller a buyer cannot leave feedback.
I think.
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Proprietor | | Posted: | Apr 14, 2015 02:26 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, ScootersBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | This is really a violation of the TOS for Paypal not BL, however, it's certainly
not a practice we want to see here on BL. If you come across a seller doing this,
please notify Admin through the help desk with the details so we can address
these issues directly. The account will be suspended, they will be told that
this practice is not acceptable, and will need to remove this information from
their store to get it reactivated.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
|
How about when the buyer asks for a lower value on the customs forms? Why does
BL not care about that? Asking a seller to lie and so the sellers that do have
an advantage over honest sellers. Should BL not care about that?
John P
|
And if we refuse to do so, that buyer can threaten (and succeed in) leaving negative
or neutral feedback because we refused to be complicit in a felony.
|
I believe that if an order is cancelled by the seller a buyer cannot leave feedback.
I think.
John P
|
Sadly wrong. Both parties can leave feedback on cancelled orders,
and Admin is not very generous when considering removal requests.
If you cancel an order for a buyer who doesn't want to pay but don't
file
and complete an NPB, that buyer can leave negative feedback and good
luck getting it removed.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 10:28 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 98 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Why? All bricklinkers are my friends
Ken
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 10:30 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | Why? All bricklinkers are my friends
Ken
|
I am just being silly on a Friday
t-minus 5 hours until vacation
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 10:34 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | Why? All bricklinkers are my friends
|
Looking at your feedback, obviously not all.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 14:38 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | Why? All bricklinkers are my friends
|
Looking at your feedback, obviously not all.
|
you don't have any friends that you give bad feedback to?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 11:13 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | Why? All bricklinkers are my friends
|
Looking at your feedback, obviously not all.
|
you don't have any friends that you give bad feedback to?
|
Lol 
Meh, I don't know about this. BL should only act on what is in the interest
of its own members, they don't get paid to do PayPal's job of getting
their stuff right (that'd be nice and lazy for them, if every market place
would play cop to enforce their rules). So the question is, to what extend is
it really affecting us? Unfair competition? A bit, though it's not a great
deal of money and there are tons of other random factors affecting individual
sellers costs and income. I don't really thing that I'd (when I reopen
 ) be losing any business to friends&family frauds. It's not good what they
do, but I wonder if the effort of seeking them out and banning them is worth
the gainings..
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 11:49 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Meh, I don't know about this. BL should only act on what is in the interest
of its own members, they don't get paid to do PayPal's job of getting
their stuff right (that'd be nice and lazy for them, if every market place
would play cop to enforce their rules). So the question is, to what extend is
it really affecting us? Unfair competition? A bit, though it's not a great
deal of money and there are tons of other random factors affecting individual
sellers costs and income. I don't really thing that I'd (when I reopen
) be losing any business to friends&family frauds. It's not good what they
do, but I wonder if the effort of seeking them out and banning them is worth
the gainings..
|
You could say the same about anything. If someone says that they will mark all
customs forms as $5 to gain advantage over other international sellers, should
BL act? If someone says Western Union only should BL act? If there is an apparent
scam going on, should BL act? If it is just a marketplace and up to buyers and
sellers to check each other out, BL should not intervene in the latter two.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 12:13 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Meh, I don't know about this. BL should only act on what is in the interest
of its own members, they don't get paid to do PayPal's job of getting
their stuff right (that'd be nice and lazy for them, if every market place
would play cop to enforce their rules). So the question is, to what extend is
it really affecting us? Unfair competition? A bit, though it's not a great
deal of money and there are tons of other random factors affecting individual
sellers costs and income. I don't really thing that I'd (when I reopen
) be losing any business to friends&family frauds. It's not good what they
do, but I wonder if the effort of seeking them out and banning them is worth
the gainings..
|
You could say the same about anything. If someone says that they will mark all
customs forms as $5 to gain advantage over other international sellers, should
BL act? If someone says Western Union only should BL act? If there is an apparent
scam going on, should BL act? If it is just a marketplace and up to buyers and
sellers to check each other out, BL should not intervene in the latter two.
|
If someone only wants to take western union, I think that's fine, it's
up to the seller.
I've seen one US store that takes no electronic payments, because he doesn't
trust the government.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:11 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | I've seen one US store that takes no electronic payments, because he doesn't
trust the government.
|
I guess he hasn't heard that the USPS saves data on all 1st class mail that
it has delivered. Sure, they don't know the contents, but they know where
it came from and where it went.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 12:59 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | scam going on, should BL act? If it is just a marketplace and up to buyers and
sellers to check each other out, BL should not intervene in the latter two.
|
BL should surely be involved with ensuring the members that the venue you the
provide uses legal, fair and honest business practices.
I'm not a terms expert, but if this isn't written into the terms of service,
shouldn't it be?
Ken
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 13:11 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | | | scam going on, should BL act? If it is just a marketplace and up to buyers and
sellers to check each other out, BL should not intervene in the latter two.
|
BL should surely be involved with ensuring the members that the venue you the
provide uses legal, fair and honest business practices.
I'm not a terms expert, but if this isn't written into the terms of service,
shouldn't it be?
Ken
|
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919
#3.
"BrickLink.com acts as the venue for sellers to sell LEGO® related items and
for buyers to buy sellers' items. We are not involved in the actual transactions
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality,
safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the
listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy
items. We cannot and do not control whether or not sellers will complete the
sale of items they offer or buyers will complete the purchase of items they have
purchased. Because we do not and cannot be involved in member-to-member dealings
you agree to release BrickLink.com from claims, demands and damages of every
kind in connection with your use of the site."
(Bold by me)
#13:
"You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 13:23 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919
#3.
"BrickLink.com acts as the venue for sellers to sell LEGO® related items and
for buyers to buy sellers' items. We are not involved in the actual transactions
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality,
safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the
listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy
items. We cannot and do not control whether or not sellers will complete the
sale of items they offer or buyers will complete the purchase of items they have
purchased. Because we do not and cannot be involved in member-to-member dealings
you agree to release BrickLink.com from claims, demands and damages of every
kind in connection with your use of the site."
(Bold by me)
#13:
"You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."
|
Ok, now, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think it takes one to see there
is a problem when one term in the TOS says we have no control over the legality
of a transaction but then another term requires that one follows such laws
basically we are saying if a seller does something illegal we can't do anything
about until after the fact...
with that being the case, I don't think asking for a F&F payment is illegal
unless it is some type of fraud and if so, it is a violation of 13 and should
be handled accordingly
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | fredjh | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 13:56 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | Ok, now, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think it takes one to see there
is a problem when one term in the TOS says we have no control over the legality
of a transaction but then another term requires that one follows such laws
|
| | basically we are saying if a seller does something illegal we can't do anything
about until after the fact...
|
Yes... but it's not a problem, it's just the way it is. There was an
interesting U.S. Supreme Court ruling that essentially says the police department
is not responsible for preventing crime; their job is to act once a criminal
offense has been made(*). It was related to a police force being sued for not
preventing someone with a restraining order against them from harming the person
who obtained the order in the first place. They cannot safeguard everybody,
and they are not liable for any damage done by a criminal they didn't prevent
from committing a crime.
But there's no hypocrisy or contradiction with BL terms - essentially they
do not create the laws and cannot prevent a criminal act, but have the ability
to act if someone does commit an offense.
(*) That doesn't mean they don't try, it means they are not responsible
for it.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 14:38 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Yes... but it's not a problem, it's just the way it is. There was an
interesting U.S. Supreme Court ruling that essentially says the police department
is not responsible for preventing crime; their job is to act once a criminal
offense has been made(*). It was related to a police force being sued for not
preventing someone with a restraining order against them from harming the person
|
except in most of the USA one can open carry to "prevent crime"
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 14:04 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | | | http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919
#3.
"BrickLink.com acts as the venue for sellers to sell LEGO® related items and
for buyers to buy sellers' items. We are not involved in the actual transactions
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality,
safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the
listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy
items. We cannot and do not control whether or not sellers will complete the
sale of items they offer or buyers will complete the purchase of items they have
purchased. Because we do not and cannot be involved in member-to-member dealings
you agree to release BrickLink.com from claims, demands and damages of every
kind in connection with your use of the site."
(Bold by me)
#13:
"You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."
|
Ok, now, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think it takes one to see there
is a problem when one term in the TOS says we have no control over the legality
of a transaction but then another term requires that one follows such laws
basically we are saying if a seller does something illegal we can't do anything
about until after the fact...
with that being the case, I don't think asking for a F&F payment is illegal
unless it is some type of fraud and if so, it is a violation of 13 and should
be handled accordingly
|
You're right, asking for a personal paypal payment is not against the law,
it's simply against their TOS and if it didn't make a financial impact
to them, I don't think they would care.
I think I've mentioned this a few times, but a collector board I frequent,
paypal F&F is the 'norm'.
Now, I don't ask for that type of payment when I'm selling things because
I am SELLING something, but 3% seem to make a big difference to some people.
I also tend not to buy things under that rule. Someone will say personal payment
or you pay the 4%.. To which I offer them 10% less and if they accept, I gladly
pay the 4% and get a 6% discount because they like that practice.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 14:21 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | | | Meh, I don't know about this. BL should only act on what is in the interest
of its own members, they don't get paid to do PayPal's job of getting
their stuff right (that'd be nice and lazy for them, if every market place
would play cop to enforce their rules). So the question is, to what extend is
it really affecting us? Unfair competition? A bit, though it's not a great
deal of money and there are tons of other random factors affecting individual
sellers costs and income. I don't really thing that I'd (when I reopen
) be losing any business to friends&family frauds. It's not good what they
do, but I wonder if the effort of seeking them out and banning them is worth
the gainings..
|
You could say the same about anything. If someone says that they will mark all
customs forms as $5 to gain advantage over other international sellers, should
BL act? If someone says Western Union only should BL act? If there is an apparent
scam going on, should BL act? If it is just a marketplace and up to buyers and
sellers to check each other out, BL should not intervene in the latter two.
|
Good point, and I think those are valid questions (although is Western Union
a bad thing? I don't know it so I'll take your word for it ). There
is a difference between immoral conduct and abuse of Bricklink. If a seller treats
his staff badly, underpays them, illegaly hires them, if he runs red lights when
posting his orders, should BL intervene? I think some things come down to a person's
personal moral account and do not have to be linked to the continuity of his
Bricklink account. People will do bad things to get ahead of others, that's
life. That does not mean EVERYTHING should go here, but there's a gray area
and a line has to be drawn somewhere.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Cyberclark | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 11:13 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
When I first read the title as I skimmed the forum. I thought it was about people
paying for orders with friends sets I don't think those people should
be banned. But if they try to pay with Galidor or Jack Stone then a ban may
be in order 
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jun 28, 2014 21:29 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Cyberclark writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
When I first read the title as I skimmed the forum. I thought it was about people
paying for orders with friends sets I don't think those people should
be banned. But if they try to pay with Galidor or Jack Stone then a ban may
be in order
|
Hahaha! (thumbs up)
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | JSN | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 18:42 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
If a seller was to ask you to do this after you place the order and i isn't
mentioned in their T&C/splash page is it a valid reason for cancelling the order
and getting negative FB removed? (Hypothetical question, I have never had anyone
ask me to do this yet)
John
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jun 27, 2014 18:48 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, JSN writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
If a seller was to ask you to do this after you place the order and i isn't
mentioned in their T&C/splash page is it a valid reason for cancelling the order
and getting negative FB removed? (Hypothetical question, I have never had anyone
ask me to do this yet)
John
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It should be. I have left neutral feedback for at least two sellers who told
me in their invoice to send them personal PayPal payments. To their credit, they
did not post retaliatory feedback. But they did stoplist me and I assume they
are still doing this for their other buyers.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_476526 | | Posted: | Mar 18, 2015 22:44 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, JSN writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
If a seller was to ask you to do this after you place the order and i isn't
mentioned in their T&C/splash page is it a valid reason for cancelling the order
and getting negative FB removed? (Hypothetical question, I have never had anyone
ask me to do this yet)
John
|
It should be. I have left neutral feedback for at least two sellers who told
me in their invoice to send them personal PayPal payments. To their credit, they
did not post retaliatory feedback. But they did stoplist me and I assume they
are still doing this for their other buyers.
Thor
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I just had a seller ask me to pay using friend on PayPal today (in the email
telling me how much the total is). I hadn't ever encountered that before
either. They said 'if possible' to pay that way. I didn't, I paid
using the pay for goods and services method, like normal. I don't want to
forfeit my buyer protection, or get into trouble with PayPal. I figure the fee
was less than 90 cents on the transaction.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 05:23 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 143 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
There are still sellers using "Pay by personal payment" or mentioning "Friends
and Family" or "Balance payment" in their terms pages.
I guess BL doesn't really care too much about this.
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| | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 06:50 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | There are still sellers using "Pay by personal payment" or mentioning "Friends
and Family" or "Balance payment" in their terms pages.
|
I get the "personal payment" and "friends/family" issues, but what does "balance
payment" have to do with anything. Doesn't that just mean they prefer you
pay with actual-money from your Paypal or bank account rather than paying by
credit card? Or does that work differently on their end based on whether you
submit it as commercial or personal?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | j7r7o7c7k7 | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 06:56 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 87 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 08:18 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 102 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, j7r7o7c7k7 writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | There are still sellers using "Pay by personal payment" or mentioning "Friends
and Family" or "Balance payment" in their terms pages.
|
I get the "personal payment" and "friends/family" issues, but what does "balance
payment" have to do with anything. Doesn't that just mean they prefer you
pay with actual-money from your Paypal or bank account rather than paying by
credit card? Or does that work differently on their end based on whether you
submit it as commercial or personal?
|
I think it says on there if you pay with your balance there are no fees. But
im not 100% as there are always fees when I get a payment?
|
To get no fees, you have to pay with balance, and use the Friends and Family
option. "Balance Payment" is code for Friends and Family, without stating it
explicitly.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:20 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | To get no fees, you have to pay with balance, and use the Friends and Family
option. "Balance Payment" is code for Friends and Family, without stating it
explicitly.
|
So if the store terms state that a "Balance Payment" will get no added fees,
and that's all it says, and someone pays as "goods" with "balance payment",
that would satisfy the store terms and make adding that fee a violation of BL
TOS, correct?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:30 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | To get no fees, you have to pay with balance, and use the Friends and Family
option. "Balance Payment" is code for Friends and Family, without stating it
explicitly.
|
This is not correct. As a buyer I always pay from my PayPal account balance and
all my sellers have paid fees on those payments. Balance payment simply means
you are paying with funds you already have in your PayPal account. It works just
like any other DEBIT card or account. When you send payment, you simply select
"goods" and everything is normal. To have your recipient pay no fees, you have
to select "F&F" and NOT say it is payment for goods.
I don't know if it still exists, but it used to be slightly cheaper for sellers
to receive balance transfer payments than payments that were funded from the
buyer's credit or bank card.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 20:34 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't know if it still exists, but it used to be slightly cheaper for sellers
to receive balance transfer payments than payments that were funded from the
buyer's credit or bank card.
|
I think it used to be, but now I believe the buyer gets socked with extra fees
for submitting a card-funded transaction. Because Paypal can legally charge
that fee back to them, where a few years ago they could not.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 14, 2015 03:03 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Yes, it is correct. It makes no difference to a seller whether they get a balance
payment or credit card funded payment, if it was a business transaction. They
wouldn't even know. So what reason do they have to ask for balance payments
only?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 14, 2015 06:13 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Yes, it is correct. It makes no difference to a seller whether they get a balance
payment or credit card funded payment, if it was a business transaction. They
wouldn't even know. So what reason do they have to ask for balance payments
only?
|
If they mention nothing about Goods vs Friends, it could just be that it's
left in their TOS from the days when the seller got hit with any CC fees, so
Balance-Funded payments actually were cheaper for business transactions. Remember,
Paypal gets charged to process card payments, and there is no way they're
going to take that hit when they only collect 3% of the total payment in the
first place. A few years ago, federal legislation made it legal to pass that
fee on to the cardholder, but before that the only option was to add it to the
regular Paypal fees.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 14, 2015 07:01 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| The store I am thinking if (and have reported) later mentions an extra 4% fee
if the buyer doesn't use a personal payment, and the terms are relatively
recently updated.
It will be interesting to see whether PayPal fees change in Europe given the
new directive about maximum card charges that will be implemented. I'm guessing
PayPal won't amend the fees.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 14, 2015 07:06 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Yes, it is correct. It makes no difference to a seller whether they get a balance
payment or credit card funded payment, if it was a business transaction. They
wouldn't even know. So what reason do they have to ask for balance payments
only?
|
If they mention nothing about Goods vs Friends, it could just be that it's
left in their TOS from the days when the seller got hit with any CC fees, so
Balance-Funded payments actually were cheaper for business transactions. Remember,
Paypal gets charged to process card payments, and there is no way they're
going to take that hit when they only collect 3% of the total payment in the
first place. A few years ago, federal legislation made it legal to pass that
fee on to the cardholder, but before that the only option was to add it to the
regular Paypal fees.
|
Ooh, or they could be registered outside of the US, in which case different TOS
apply, and maybe Paypal _can't_ hit the buyer with the CC fees, so the seller
does still have legitimate reason to ask for balance-funded transactions. If
they're in Europe, they also have the TOS-supported right to throw both the
standard Paypal fees and any incurred CC fees back at the buyer, and letting
the buyer know that up front might be completely legitimate with no intention
of hinting at preferring a Friends payment.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Apr 14, 2015 08:52 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Yes, it is correct. It makes no difference to a seller whether they get a balance
payment or credit card funded payment, if it was a business transaction. They
wouldn't even know. So what reason do they have to ask for balance payments
only?
|
If they mention nothing about Goods vs Friends, it could just be that it's
left in their TOS from the days when the seller got hit with any CC fees, so
Balance-Funded payments actually were cheaper for business transactions. Remember,
Paypal gets charged to process card payments, and there is no way they're
going to take that hit when they only collect 3% of the total payment in the
first place. A few years ago, federal legislation made it legal to pass that
fee on to the cardholder, but before that the only option was to add it to the
regular Paypal fees.
|
One other legitimate reason why a store would prefer balance-funded payments
is because those funds are immediately available to the seller. Credit card or
bank account funded payments can often take hours or days to clear (especially
bank account funded payments, or "echecks"). I know in the past that it sometimes
took as much as a week for echecks to clear, and that some buyers became impatient
with sellers because the buyer's echeck was slow to clear.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 07:51 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 112 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | There are still sellers using "Pay by personal payment" or mentioning "Friends
and Family" or "Balance payment" in their terms pages.
|
I get the "personal payment" and "friends/family" issues, but what does "balance
payment" have to do with anything. Doesn't that just mean they prefer you
pay with actual-money from your Paypal or bank account rather than paying by
credit card? Or does that work differently on their end based on whether you
submit it as commercial or personal?
|
It just means you have to use your existing PayPal account balance to send a
free "friends and family" payment. F&F payments are not free if they are funded
by a credit card (except when the sender agrees to pay those fees themself).
Yes, I still see some BL sellers doing this and I still think it is bad for BL
and, especially, BL buyers and other sellers who play by the rules.
But there is a devious twist to this. Some sellers will embed this in their PayPal
direct payment link without even telling the buyer. For example, some sellers,
when setting up their direct payment links included in their invoices, will describe
or check the payment as one for services instead of one for goods. Goods have
PayPal buyer protection; services do not.
I don't mind waiving my buyer protection rights on most orders with most
sellers. But at least ASK me or be up front about it so I can make that choice
myself. Don't hide and slip it in a direct payment link. That is pretty sleazy
and dishonest IMO.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 13:03 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | But there is a devious twist to this. Some sellers will embed this in their PayPal
direct payment link without even telling the buyer. For example, some sellers,
when setting up their direct payment links included in their invoices, will describe
or check the payment as one for services instead of one for goods. Goods have
PayPal buyer protection; services do not.
I don't mind waiving my buyer protection rights on most orders with most
sellers. But at least ASK me or be up front about it so I can make that choice
myself. Don't hide and slip it in a direct payment link. That is pretty sleazy
and dishonest IMO.
|
That is pretty underhanded, but not something I have to worry about as I don't
use e-mail and Paypal on the same computer. Embedded payment links are a huge
pain to hand-type, so I never use them.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 13:25 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | But there is a devious twist to this. Some sellers will embed this in their PayPal
direct payment link without even telling the buyer. For example, some sellers,
when setting up their direct payment links included in their invoices, will describe
or check the payment as one for services instead of one for goods. Goods have
PayPal buyer protection; services do not.
I don't mind waiving my buyer protection rights on most orders with most
sellers. But at least ASK me or be up front about it so I can make that choice
myself. Don't hide and slip it in a direct payment link. That is pretty sleazy
and dishonest IMO.
|
That is pretty underhanded, but not something I have to worry about as I don't
use e-mail and Paypal on the same computer. Embedded payment links are a huge
pain to hand-type, so I never use them.
|
Is there a way for BL to prohibit the code in the link that would give such a
invoice for services?
kind of like how certain code types are prohibited on our splash page, etc.
just have the text that would make such a link prohibited as well
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | capjls | | Posted: | Apr 15, 2015 14:15 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | Embedded payment links are a huge pain to hand-type, so I never use them.
|
You can add the link to the "Custom Order Invoice" setting. Then you just type
it once.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Apr 15, 2015 14:47 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, capjls writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | Embedded payment links are a huge pain to hand-type, so I never use them.
|
You can add the link to the "Custom Order Invoice" setting. Then you just type
it once.
|
He is a buyer only... He means he doesn't use them when he gets them
from sellers, as by using 2 PC's he would need to handcopy them letter by
letter...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Apr 15, 2015 14:50 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | He is a buyer only... He means he doesn't use them when he gets them
from sellers, as by using 2 PC's he would need to handcopy them letter by
letter...
|
That's exactly right. And the reason I do that is so any random virus or
malware that I run into while just surfing the internet can't keylog me when
I'm logging into a site that has access to my financials or where I'm
typing in a CC number.
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| | | | | Author: | Rick_S. | | Posted: | Apr 13, 2015 12:35 | | Subject: | Re: Ban sellers asking for Friends PayPal payment | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I'd like to see a ban on bricklink sellers using T&C asking their buyers
to pay for merchandise using the Friends and Family option.
|
wait do you mean sellers are asking buyers who pay thru PayPal to pay thru the
personal payment method and not thru the business transaction method? if so report
them to PayPal with the mail they sent you asking you to do that, that is the
only thing you can do, since BL cannot get involved since they are not PP's
police arm.
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United Kingdom, England
USA, Oregon
Lithuania, Panevėžys
Bulgaria, Sofia City
Netherlands, Utrecht
Canada, Ontario
Germany, Berlin
United Kingdom, Scotland
Belgium, Flemish Brabant