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| | | Author: | Brickwilbo  | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:22 | | Subject: | Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 553 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
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| | | | | Author: | Daave | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:35 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 119 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_8789 | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:42 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 108 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
Maybe he doesn't want shoppers from Greece?  
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:48 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 104 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Peoples_General writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
Maybe he doesn't want shoppers from Greece?
|
They're all on strike .
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Speciale | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Peoples_General writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
Maybe he doesn't want shoppers from Greece?
|
They're all on strike .
|
i recived today one order from 410 euro from an 0 feedback buyer registered oct
13 in greece ?
regards r
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 19:14 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, brasletty writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Peoples_General writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
Maybe he doesn't want shoppers from Greece?
|
They're all on strike .
|
i recived today one order from 410 euro from an 0 feedback buyer registered oct
13 in greece ?
regards r
|
Nice amount.
Would you prefer to get this order paid by IBAN or Paypal?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Speciale | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 11:45 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, brasletty writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Peoples_General writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
Maybe he doesn't want shoppers from Greece?
|
They're all on strike .
|
i recived today one order from 410 euro from an 0 feedback buyer registered oct
13 in greece ?
regards r
|
Nice amount.
Would you prefer to get this order paid by IBAN or Paypal?
|
buyer like to pay with iban and send me this morning that he have send payment
, still same mambers from greece have money , for me there is no diferent , in
my store the buyer have to pay the paypal fee if he use paypal its up to the
buyer . i vote yes .
regards r
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Murky | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 12:56 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | Nice amount.
Would you prefer to get this order paid by IBAN or Paypal?
|
Going on a limb here, but I suspect most sellers that have access to IBAN will
prefer that. It saves them the PayPal fee, and the buyer is left with zero buyers
protection.
Since it is a direct-to-an-account transfer, no VISA, MASTERCARD or any other
credit card protection will help either.
While a seller should be able to choose payment options, PayPal should always
be one of them.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BrickSwede | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 15:32 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | | | Nice amount.
Would you prefer to get this order paid by IBAN or Paypal?
|
Going on a limb here, but I suspect most sellers that have access to IBAN will
prefer that. It saves them the PayPal fee, and the buyer is left with zero buyers
protection.
Since it is a direct-to-an-account transfer, no VISA, MASTERCARD or any other
credit card protection will help either.
While a seller should be able to choose payment options, PayPal should always
be one of them.
|
well the problem with Paypal is also its Buyer Protection, its way to easy to
abuse...
1/ place order
2/ choose non-tracable shipping
3/ recieve goods
4/ claim goods was never shipped
if there was a way on bricklink to automatically choose shipping based on payment
method it wouyld be great. I dont mind being paid via Paypal but you´ll have
to pay the €20 tracing fee on top of that €10 shipping...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb1047715 | | Posted: | Jan 14, 2018 18:38 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, BrickSwede writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | | | Nice amount.
Would you prefer to get this order paid by IBAN or Paypal?
|
Going on a limb here, but I suspect most sellers that have access to IBAN will
prefer that. It saves them the PayPal fee, and the buyer is left with zero buyers
protection.
Since it is a direct-to-an-account transfer, no VISA, MASTERCARD or any other
credit card protection will help either.
While a seller should be able to choose payment options, PayPal should always
be one of them.
|
well the problem with Paypal is also its Buyer Protection, its way to easy to
abuse...
1/ place order
2/ choose non-tracable shipping
3/ recieve goods
4/ claim goods was never shipped
if there was a way on bricklink to automatically choose shipping based on payment
method it wouyld be great. I dont mind being paid via Paypal but you´ll have
to pay the €20 tracing fee on top of that €10 shipping...
|
It's not buyer protection that is being abused, exactly.
Under many countries laws (and international trade laws) a seller is responsible
for ensuring goods get to the buyer.
It makes no difference if a buyer opts for insurance, they are entitled to replacement
goods or a refund if something goes missing or is damaged in transit.
I never send anything that costs more than the postage without using insured
and signed-for services; only ever had one item damaged but it was over £600,
refunded by the carrier..
To be safe, allow for tracking & insurance in your shipping costs if you don't
want to bear the risk.
ps. There is no way I would use an international bank payment for a small purchase,
as the fees from the UK to somewhere using a different current are extortionate.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jan 14, 2018 20:08 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, rjenkinsgb writes:
| | In Suggestions, BrickSwede writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | | | Nice amount.
Would you prefer to get this order paid by IBAN or Paypal?
|
Going on a limb here, but I suspect most sellers that have access to IBAN will
prefer that. It saves them the PayPal fee, and the buyer is left with zero buyers
protection.
Since it is a direct-to-an-account transfer, no VISA, MASTERCARD or any other
credit card protection will help either.
While a seller should be able to choose payment options, PayPal should always
be one of them.
|
well the problem with Paypal is also its Buyer Protection, its way to easy to
abuse...
1/ place order
2/ choose non-tracable shipping
3/ recieve goods
4/ claim goods was never shipped
if there was a way on bricklink to automatically choose shipping based on payment
method it wouyld be great. I dont mind being paid via Paypal but you´ll have
to pay the €20 tracing fee on top of that €10 shipping...
|
It's not buyer protection that is being abused, exactly.
Under many countries laws (and international trade laws) a seller is responsible
for ensuring goods get to the buyer.
It makes no difference if a buyer opts for insurance, they are entitled to replacement
goods or a refund if something goes missing or is damaged in transit.
I never send anything that costs more than the postage without using insured
and signed-for services; only ever had one item damaged but it was over £600,
refunded by the carrier..
To be safe, allow for tracking & insurance in your shipping costs if you don't
want to bear the risk.
ps. There is no way I would use an international bank payment for a small purchase,
as the fees from the UK to somewhere using a different current are extortionate.
|
Read the post you replied to again - tracking is too expensive. BrickSwede was
saying he wants either PayPal+tracking or neither, because of a risk of false
accusation. In practise, this would usually boil down to neither, since tracking
usually adds some €10 to the shipping cost.
However, I ship without tracking all the time and accept PayPal payments. In
reality it's really no big deal. I've never once had a malicious buyer.
It seems like a far fetched and inefficient way to make money, going through
all the negativity of arguing with the seller, claiming through PayPal.. no person
- decent or otherwise - will be interested in that hassle, unless the order
is valuable. But in this case you would likely ship it with tracking anyway,
and the relative cost of the tracking would be much less.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Jan 14, 2018 21:00 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | However, I ship without tracking all the time and accept PayPal payments. In
reality it's really no big deal. I've never once had a malicious buyer.
It seems like a far fetched and inefficient way to make money, going through
all the negativity of arguing with the seller, claiming through PayPal.. no person
- decent or otherwise - will be interested in that hassle, unless the order
is valuable. But in this case you would likely ship it with tracking anyway,
and the relative cost of the tracking would be much less.
|
I know someone who got scammed, once, in a way that tracking probably wouldn't
prevent. It was for a set, and I suspect those are more likely to be targeted
by scam buyers because they're easier to flip afterwards. I heard someone
ask advice on whether to sell sets or parts at an AFOL event, and the response
was that parts are more profitable, but sets will always sell. Now, I just peeked
in both of your stores, and while you have a much higher part to set ratio, his
sets are only about half a case of CMFs from a couple years ago. I didn't
browse his parts, but the account is only two years old, and the store has only
34 sales. Either this seller has actually been hit with a scam already, or it's
just a case of being new-seller cautious.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:46 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
|
Some probably would for various reasons (chargebacks, fees, tax etc.)
For example see: http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=589534
| |
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 19:25 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
As the risk of chargeback is no greater inside the EU than outside of it, why
dont you simply just stop accepting paypal accepting paypal for everyone?
Also, what does accepting paypal have to do with tax? IBAN payments are just
as taxable as income as what paypal payments are.
Gareth
| | | | | | Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 01:12 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
As the risk of chargeback is no greater inside the EU than outside of it, why
dont you simply just stop accepting paypal accepting paypal for everyone?
|
I've no problems with Paypal and will continue using it.
Most of my orders are within The Netherlands.
It could help others who get more small orders from within the EU.
| | Also, what does accepting paypal have to do with tax? IBAN payments are just
as taxable as income as what paypal payments are.
|
I don't know as I'm not a professional.
I can imagine it could have consequences for tax some way.
| | Gareth
| | | | | | Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 04:29 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
As the risk of chargeback is no greater inside the EU than outside of it, why
dont you simply just stop accepting paypal accepting paypal for everyone?
|
I've no problems with Paypal and will continue using it.
|
Then why the need not to use it for selected groups of people?
| | Most of my orders are within The Netherlands.
It could help others who get more small orders from within the EU.
| | Also, what does accepting paypal have to do with tax? IBAN payments are just
as taxable as income as what paypal payments are.
|
I don't know as I'm not a professional.
|
If you buy to re-sell, then yes, you are trading, even if only part time, in
the eyes of many a tax collector that would make you a "professional".
| | I can imagine it could have consequences for tax some way.
|
The only consequence that I am aware of is that in many places, paypals fees
can be written off as a business expense.
I initially voted no to this rather crazy idea, but now I vote yes, simply because
if any one seller chooses to exclude the payment method preferred by the vast
majority of customers then logically thats more sales for the rest of us
Gareth
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 13:21 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
As the risk of chargeback is no greater inside the EU than outside of it, why
dont you simply just stop accepting paypal accepting paypal for everyone?
|
I've no problems with Paypal and will continue using it.
|
Then why the need not to use it for selected groups of people?
|
Others might want to.
| | | | Most of my orders are within The Netherlands.
It could help others who get more small orders from within the EU.
| | Also, what does accepting paypal have to do with tax? IBAN payments are just
as taxable as income as what paypal payments are.
|
I don't know as I'm not a professional.
|
If you buy to re-sell, then yes, you are trading, even if only part time, in
the eyes of many a tax collector that would make you a "professional".
|
I don't buy Lego with the purpose to resell.
I sell for fun and only parts that I don't need myself.
| | | | I can imagine it could have consequences for tax some way.
|
The only consequence that I am aware of is that in many places, paypals fees
can be written off as a business expense.
I initially voted no to this rather crazy idea, but now I vote yes, simply because
if any one seller chooses to exclude the payment method preferred by the vast
majority of customers then logically thats more sales for the rest of us
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | jethroo | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:46 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
Because in the EU you can easily pay with bank transfer with the same costs as
if you would make a bank transfer in your country, in most cases this is just
0.00 EUR, this is somethere defined by EU law if i'm right.
brickwilbo just make a comment on your IBAN payment option, that this is your
preferred EU payment method. this will not stop buyers to be able to use paypal
as payment method but actually my last orders from netherland and finland all
used IBAN instead of paypal.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:54 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jethroo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | Why on earth do you need to do that?
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
Because in the EU you can easily pay with bank transfer with the same costs as
if you would make a bank transfer in your country, in most cases this is just
0.00 EUR, this is somethere defined by EU law if i'm right.
|
Indeed.
| | brickwilbo just make a comment on your IBAN payment option, that this is your
preferred EU payment method. this will not stop buyers to be able to use paypal
as payment method but actually my last orders from netherland and finland all
used IBAN instead of paypal.
|
I already have, long time. 
If it's a legit by BL offered option to the buyer you can't refuse it.
Inside my own country I can decide not to accept certain payment options.
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| | | | | Author: | Starbug | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2011 18:47 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
I wouldn't use it myself, but a definite yes vote from me.
If you only want to accept IBAN payments within the EU, it would be essential,
I imagine.
Dave
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| | | | | Author: | elias3 | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 04:01 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
3. "Internationally I Accept Payment By:"
stefaan
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 04:07 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
3. "Internationally I Accept Payment By:"
stefaan
|
Great idea, thanks.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 04:21 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
|
Hi,
why to exclude European countries which don't have the Euro?
I got IBAN payments from Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, Norway, Switzerland...
There would be no need to accept PayPal from these countries.
Anyway, implementing such an option would be complicated without having a dedicated
list of countries for each payment type.
Ronald
| | 3. "Internationally I Accept Payment By:"
stefaan
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | elias3 | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 04:34 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
|
Hi,
why to exclude European countries which don't have the Euro?
I got IBAN payments from Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, Norway, Switzerland...
There would be no need to accept PayPal from these countries.
Anyway, implementing such an option would be complicated without having a dedicated
list of countries for each payment type.
Ronald
| | 3. "Internationally I Accept Payment By:"
stefaan
|
|
Ronald
I didn't wrote here my 'accept' payment
There's a different between EURO-zone and Europe. No? (payment)
it could be:
1: Belgium (for me) IBAN (because the banktransfer is no longer in use here,
ok we can call this 'banktransfer') (payment only in EUR)
2: EU-zone: IBAN (payment only in EUR)
3: Internationally: IBAN, Paypal (like it is as for this moment) and they can
pay in USD, EUR or GBP in my shop.
Yes I also got IBAN-payment from outside EURO-zone buyers from Europe countries
like the UK, Sweden, ...
and it's just for not get the extra fees from Paypal (why pay them if it is possible
for a free payment transaction!!??)
Stefaan
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 04:37 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
|
Hi,
why to exclude European countries which don't have the Euro?
I got IBAN payments from Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, Norway, Switzerland...
There would be no need to accept PayPal from these countries.
|
Other than the fact that you want business from people who may wish to pay with
paypal?
Do you also propose that the small number of buyers from the countries below
should also be barred from using paypal in your store just because they can
pay using IBAN?
Dominican Republic, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Mauritius,
Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and United Arab Emirates
| | Anyway, implementing such an option would be complicated without having a dedicated
list of countries for each payment type.
Ronald
|
Where does it end, do we give North Americans the choice to exclude payment options
based on whether a buyer is in a NAFTA member nation?
Should US buyers also have the option to exclude/include payment methods based
on a buyer being in Panama, Ecuador or El Salvador just because those countries
use the US dollar?
Gareth
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 09:27 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
|
Hi,
why to exclude European countries which don't have the Euro?
I got IBAN payments from Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, Norway, Switzerland...
There would be no need to accept PayPal from these countries.
|
Other than the fact that you want business from people who may wish to pay with
paypal?
Do you also propose that the small number of buyers from the countries below
should also be barred from using paypal in your store just because they can
pay using IBAN?
Dominican Republic, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Mauritius,
Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and United Arab Emirates
|
Hi Gareth,
it seems that there is some confusion on your end about the issue.
The payment method defined in BrickLink as "IBAN" does not mean "Bank Transfer
from any countries which use the IBAN/BIC numbering system in their banking system".
It rather refers to the standard Bank Transfer method initially used within the
EU countries and for some time now expanded to the SEPA countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
The name of this payment method - in BrickLink still and commonly named IBAN
- has also changed to "SEPA-Payments"
This payment type is the most common way to transfer money between SEPA countries.
The fact that the UK government thinks on most issues that is is better for them
to cook their own soup within the EU (not only for money issues) obviously doesn't
really help to distribute more knowledge about this very simple money transfer
method and it's fee structure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Misconceptions
The countries you mentioned above are NOT part of the SEPA, and only using the
same bank account numbering system does not come along with the same (mostly
feeless) fee structure as within SEPA countries, in fact accepting bank transfers
from these countries is in no way economic due to the very high inflated fees
as these are *NOT* SEPA-Payments.
The sense behind not accepting PayPal from SEPA countries for transactions in
BrickLink is not only to minimize the chargeback risk, but also to minimize fees
for sellers (which always cause higher prices and/or handling fees for buyers).
There's really no logical reason to use PayPal instead of "IBAN" within SEPA
countries, except maybe for Brits whose banks haven't yet implemented the fee
structure suggested from the EU commission. Hence my comment (below) that implementing
a payment option which excludes certain countries/regions from paying by PayPal
would need to create a dedicated list as it's not possible to determine it by
geographic or economic region.
| |
| | Anyway, implementing such an option would be complicated without having a dedicated
list of countries for each payment type.
Ronald
|
Where does it end, do we give North Americans the choice to exclude payment options
based on whether a buyer is in a NAFTA member nation?
Should US buyers also have the option to exclude/include payment methods based
on a buyer being in Panama, Ecuador or El Salvador just because those countries
use the US dollar?
|
Again, nobody wants to discriminate anyone, it's simply a suggestion to implement
an *option* to exclude people from paying by PayPal who always have another payment
option which is as convenient as PayPal in *many* SEPA countries but avoids the
chargeback risk for sellers.
Ronald
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Tracyd | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 09:33 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
|
Hi,
why to exclude European countries which don't have the Euro?
I got IBAN payments from Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, Norway, Switzerland...
There would be no need to accept PayPal from these countries.
|
Other than the fact that you want business from people who may wish to pay with
paypal?
Do you also propose that the small number of buyers from the countries below
should also be barred from using paypal in your store just because they can
pay using IBAN?
Dominican Republic, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Mauritius,
Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and United Arab Emirates
|
Hi Gareth,
it seems that there is some confusion on your end about the issue.
The payment method defined in BrickLink as "IBAN" does not mean "Bank Transfer
from any countries which use the IBAN/BIC numbering system in their banking system".
It rather refers to the standard Bank Transfer method initially used within the
EU countries and for some time now expanded to the SEPA countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
The name of this payment method - in BrickLink still and commonly named IBAN
- has also changed to "SEPA-Payments"
This payment type is the most common way to transfer money between SEPA countries.
The fact that the UK government thinks on most issues that is is better for them
to cook their own soup within the EU (not only for money issues) obviously doesn't
really help to distribute more knowledge about this very simple money transfer
method and it's fee structure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Misconceptions
The countries you mentioned above are NOT part of the SEPA, and only using the
same bank account numbering system does not come along with the same (mostly
feeless) fee structure as within SEPA countries, in fact accepting bank transfers
from these countries is in no way economic due to the very high inflated fees
as these are *NOT* SEPA-Payments.
The sense behind not accepting PayPal from SEPA countries for transactions in
BrickLink is not only to minimize the chargeback risk, but also to minimize fees
for sellers (which always cause higher prices and/or handling fees for buyers).
There's really no logical reason to use PayPal instead of "IBAN" within SEPA
countries, except maybe for Brits whose banks haven't yet implemented the fee
structure suggested from the EU commission. Hence my comment (below) that implementing
a payment option which excludes certain countries/regions from paying by PayPal
would need to create a dedicated list as it's not possible to determine it by
geographic or economic region.
| |
| | Anyway, implementing such an option would be complicated without having a dedicated
list of countries for each payment type.
Ronald
|
Where does it end, do we give North Americans the choice to exclude payment options
based on whether a buyer is in a NAFTA member nation?
Should US buyers also have the option to exclude/include payment methods based
on a buyer being in Panama, Ecuador or El Salvador just because those countries
use the US dollar?
|
Again, nobody wants to discriminate anyone, it's simply a suggestion to implement
an *option* to exclude people from paying by PayPal who always have another payment
option which is as convenient as PayPal in *many* SEPA countries but avoids the
chargeback risk for sellers.
Ronald
|
This doesn't include me as I am in the US, but what buyer would want to give
up their protection of Paypal for SEPA payments? Just an example, a scammer
opens a shop in Europe, ships out a little bit to establish a FB or just hacks
an older account with perfect FB and loads in some great deals and then doesn't
ship after they have been paid. What recourse is there with the SEPA transfers
for the buyers to get their money back?
Tracyd
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 15:15 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Withing My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Withing The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
|
Hi,
why to exclude European countries which don't have the Euro?
I got IBAN payments from Denmark, Sweden, Hungary, Norway, Switzerland...
There would be no need to accept PayPal from these countries.
|
Other than the fact that you want business from people who may wish to pay with
paypal?
Do you also propose that the small number of buyers from the countries below
should also be barred from using paypal in your store just because they can
pay using IBAN?
Dominican Republic, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Mauritius,
Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and United Arab Emirates
|
Hi Gareth,
it seems that there is some confusion on your end about the issue.
The payment method defined in BrickLink as "IBAN" does not mean "Bank Transfer
from any countries which use the IBAN/BIC numbering system in their banking system".
It rather refers to the standard Bank Transfer method initially used within the
EU countries and for some time now expanded to the SEPA countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
The name of this payment method - in BrickLink still and commonly named IBAN
- has also changed to "SEPA-Payments"
This payment type is the most common way to transfer money between SEPA countries.
The fact that the UK government thinks on most issues that is is better for them
to cook their own soup within the EU (not only for money issues) obviously doesn't
really help to distribute more knowledge about this very simple money transfer
method and it's fee structure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Misconceptions
The countries you mentioned above are NOT part of the SEPA, and only using the
same bank account numbering system does not come along with the same (mostly
feeless) fee structure as within SEPA countries, in fact accepting bank transfers
from these countries is in no way economic due to the very high inflated fees
as these are *NOT* SEPA-Payments.
The sense behind not accepting PayPal from SEPA countries for transactions in
BrickLink is not only to minimize the chargeback risk, but also to minimize fees
for sellers (which always cause higher prices and/or handling fees for buyers).
There's really no logical reason to use PayPal instead of "IBAN" within SEPA
countries, except maybe for Brits whose banks haven't yet implemented the fee
structure suggested from the EU commission. Hence my comment (below) that implementing
a payment option which excludes certain countries/regions from paying by PayPal
would need to create a dedicated list as it's not possible to determine it by
geographic or economic region.
| |
| | Anyway, implementing such an option would be complicated without having a dedicated
list of countries for each payment type.
Ronald
|
Where does it end, do we give North Americans the choice to exclude payment options
based on whether a buyer is in a NAFTA member nation?
Should US buyers also have the option to exclude/include payment methods based
on a buyer being in Panama, Ecuador or El Salvador just because those countries
use the US dollar?
|
Again, nobody wants to discriminate anyone, it's simply a suggestion to implement
an *option* to exclude people from paying by PayPal who always have another payment
option which is as convenient as PayPal in *many* SEPA countries but avoids the
chargeback risk for sellers.
Ronald
|
This doesn't include me as I am in the US, but what buyer would want to give
up their protection of Paypal for SEPA payments? Just an example, a scammer
opens a shop in Europe, ships out a little bit to establish a FB or just hacks
an older account with perfect FB and loads in some great deals and then doesn't
ship after they have been paid. What recourse is there with the SEPA transfers
for the buyers to get their money back?
Tracyd
|
Hi,
as recently mentioned in a different discussion thread here in the forum, the
rate of IBAN payers is about 25-85% (IIRC) of the transactions where IBAN is
possible and PayPal is also offered.
Your scamming model wouldn't work. A possible scammer would have to disclose
his full identity including address upon opening a bank account over here, which
leaves him open to any official fraud claims, in opposite to fake PayPalers.
Ronald
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 11:30 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
|
|
|
|
| | | | Do you also propose that the small number of buyers from the countries below
should also be barred from using paypal in your store just because they can
pay using IBAN?
Dominican Republic, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Mauritius,
Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and United Arab Emirates
|
Hi Gareth,
it seems that there is some confusion on your end about the issue.
The payment method defined in BrickLink as "IBAN" does not mean "Bank Transfer
from any countries which use the IBAN/BIC numbering system in their banking system".
It rather refers to the standard Bank Transfer method initially used within the
EU countries and for some time now expanded to the SEPA countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
The name of this payment method - in BrickLink still and commonly named IBAN
- has also changed to "SEPA-Payments"
|
There is no confusion on my part, please do not presume there is. Perhaps we
should suggest changing the bricklink description to include a note about SEPA
only. Being as presently it only states "IBAN" which refers to international
bank account number and thus implies that anyone from a country using the IBAN
coding system can pay using bank transfer.
| | This payment type is the most common way to transfer money between SEPA countries.
|
Says who? Please provide actual hard evidence from a reliable source which relates
to actual ecommerce transactions between business and consumer; leaving out all
the mum to child, bank to bank and business to business transactions.
| | The fact that the UK government thinks **
|
Please do not make political statements in the forum!
| | The countries you mentioned above are NOT part of the SEPA, and only using the
same bank account numbering system does not come along with the same (mostly
feeless) fee structure as within SEPA countries, in fact accepting bank transfers
from these countries is in no way economic due to the very high inflated fees
as these are *NOT* SEPA-Payments.
|
All the more reason to split IBAN into 2 categories. IBAN (non-SEPA) and IBAN
(SEPA)?
| | The sense behind not accepting PayPal from SEPA countries for transactions in
BrickLink is not only to minimize the chargeback risk, but also to minimize fees
for sellers (which always cause higher prices and/or handling fees for buyers).
|
You could minimise the risk of chargeback by simply not accepting paypal at all.
| | There's really no logical reason to use PayPal instead of "IBAN" within SEPA
countries,
|
Yes, there is. A very simple one that you probably don't care about. It is the
preferred choice of buyers, for several reasons, which don't really matter here.
Bank transfers have been possible in the UK for many many years, most bricklink
users in the UK choose not to pay with it, preferring paypal for its security
and convenience.
99% of my UK buyers pay with paypal, 0.2% pay by bank transfer, 0.8% with other
methods such as cheque or postal order. 97% of my SEPA buyers pay with paypal,
just 3% with IBAN/SEPA.
I for one would not want to write off such a large proportion of my customers.
But I feel if you wish to, you should be allowed to, not by choosing who you
can accept paypal from, but by choosing simply to not accept paypal at all.
You either want the cake or you dont, there is little point in picking out the
jam and cream in the middle and just eating the sponge because the jam and cream
contain afew extra calories.
What I still cannot understand is why accepting paypal from outside the EU with
all its fees is good enough for you, but within the EU it isnt?
Are EU buyers more likely to raise a chargeback than non-EU buyers? If yes, are
those chargebacks because of fraudulent buyers or chargebacks because a given
seller has failed to ship what he said he would, sent dirty or broken parts,
sent used items that were described as new, MISB etc etc and wouldnt provide
the refund he/she may be legally obligated to provide voluntarily?
Some chargebacks are done through haste or misunderstanding yes, that is a major
frustration but the majority I suspect are placed by honest people where the
seller has been at fault. I do not think it is appropriate to suggest that any
one nation or group of nations is more likely to commit fraud, haste or misunderstanding
without something a bit more solid than because some sellers want to save some
fees.
| | Again, nobody wants to discriminate anyone, it's simply a suggestion to implement
an *option* to exclude people from paying by PayPal who always have another payment
option which is as convenient as PayPal in *many* SEPA countries but avoids the
chargeback risk for sellers.
|
Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
Gareth
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Tracyd | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 11:36 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
|
|
|
|
| | | | Do you also propose that the small number of buyers from the countries below
should also be barred from using paypal in your store just because they can
pay using IBAN?
Dominican Republic, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Mauritius,
Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and United Arab Emirates
|
Hi Gareth,
it seems that there is some confusion on your end about the issue.
The payment method defined in BrickLink as "IBAN" does not mean "Bank Transfer
from any countries which use the IBAN/BIC numbering system in their banking system".
It rather refers to the standard Bank Transfer method initially used within the
EU countries and for some time now expanded to the SEPA countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
The name of this payment method - in BrickLink still and commonly named IBAN
- has also changed to "SEPA-Payments"
|
There is no confusion on my part, please do not presume there is. Perhaps we
should suggest changing the bricklink description to include a note about SEPA
only. Being as presently it only states "IBAN" which refers to international
bank account number and thus implies that anyone from a country using the IBAN
coding system can pay using bank transfer.
| | This payment type is the most common way to transfer money between SEPA countries.
|
Says who? Please provide actual hard evidence from a reliable source which relates
to actual ecommerce transactions between business and consumer; leaving out all
the mum to child, bank to bank and business to business transactions.
| | The fact that the UK government thinks **
|
Please do not make political statements in the forum!
| | The countries you mentioned above are NOT part of the SEPA, and only using the
same bank account numbering system does not come along with the same (mostly
feeless) fee structure as within SEPA countries, in fact accepting bank transfers
from these countries is in no way economic due to the very high inflated fees
as these are *NOT* SEPA-Payments.
|
All the more reason to split IBAN into 2 categories. IBAN (non-SEPA) and IBAN
(SEPA)?
| | The sense behind not accepting PayPal from SEPA countries for transactions in
BrickLink is not only to minimize the chargeback risk, but also to minimize fees
for sellers (which always cause higher prices and/or handling fees for buyers).
|
You could minimise the risk of chargeback by simply not accepting paypal at all.
| | There's really no logical reason to use PayPal instead of "IBAN" within SEPA
countries,
|
Yes, there is. A very simple one that you probably don't care about. It is the
preferred choice of buyers, for several reasons, which don't really matter here.
Bank transfers have been possible in the UK for many many years, most bricklink
users in the UK choose not to pay with it, preferring paypal for its security
and convenience.
99% of my UK buyers pay with paypal, 0.2% pay by bank transfer, 0.8% with other
methods such as cheque or postal order. 97% of my SEPA buyers pay with paypal,
just 3% with IBAN/SEPA.
I for one would not want to write off such a large proportion of my customers.
But I feel if you wish to, you should be allowed to, not by choosing who you
can accept paypal from, but by choosing simply to not accept paypal at all.
You either want the cake or you dont, there is little point in picking out the
jam and cream in the middle and just eating the sponge because the jam and cream
contain afew extra calories.
What I still cannot understand is why accepting paypal from outside the EU with
all its fees is good enough for you, but within the EU it isnt?
Are EU buyers more likely to raise a chargeback than non-EU buyers? If yes, are
those chargebacks because of fraudulent buyers or chargebacks because a given
seller has failed to ship what he said he would, sent dirty or broken parts,
sent used items that were described as new, MISB etc etc and wouldnt provide
the refund he/she may be legally obligated to provide voluntarily?
Some chargebacks are done through haste or misunderstanding yes, that is a major
frustration but the majority I suspect are placed by honest people where the
seller has been at fault. I do not think it is appropriate to suggest that any
one nation or group of nations is more likely to commit fraud, haste or misunderstanding
without something a bit more solid than because some sellers want to save some
fees.
| | Again, nobody wants to discriminate anyone, it's simply a suggestion to implement
an *option* to exclude people from paying by PayPal who always have another payment
option which is as convenient as PayPal in *many* SEPA countries but avoids the
chargeback risk for sellers.
|
Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
Gareth
|
And for a buyer's protection they have to start a claim before the 45 day mark.
45 days from the date of the payment, I understand it's frustrating when a
buyer files a claim and you sent their item. But they have a time limit, even
if they know you shipped it on xday before the 45 day mark they would have to
file a claim to protect their rights. Maybe they were shipped a box of rocks
in the slowest manner possible? Not saying you would but a scammer might.
Tracy
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 13:09 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
Gareth
|
And for a buyer's protection they have to start a claim before the 45 day mark.
45 days from the date of the payment, I understand it's frustrating when a
buyer files a claim and you sent their item. But they have a time limit, even
if they know you shipped it on xday before the 45 day mark they would have to
file a claim to protect their rights. Maybe they were shipped a box of rocks
in the slowest manner possible? Not saying you would but a scammer might.
Tracy
|
Absolutely. What some sellers either dont understand or wont admit is that with
bank transfers (whichever coding system is used) the buyer has no automated recourse
if let down either by a fraudulent or just a bad seller or an otherwise honest
seller thats made an error that he/she wont correct.
With paypal, almost everything can be handled by the dispute console (whether
paypal should be allowed to do this is a different bucket of monkeys altogether).
That is essentially the difference.
Plus, paypal has positives for sellers too, it gives a simple, easy breakdown
of incomings and associated fees and any refunds that the seller chooses to make.
With bank transfers, you have to do the work yourself and busy sellers will have
a lot of pages of bank statement to work through. Plus most of all, it opens
you up to thousands of people who wouldnt consider buying from you at all if
you didnt accept it.
Gareth
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 13:40 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
Gareth
|
And for a buyer's protection they have to start a claim before the 45 day mark.
45 days from the date of the payment, I understand it's frustrating when a
buyer files a claim and you sent their item. But they have a time limit, even
if they know you shipped it on xday before the 45 day mark they would have to
file a claim to protect their rights. Maybe they were shipped a box of rocks
in the slowest manner possible? Not saying you would but a scammer might.
Tracy
|
Absolutely. What some sellers either dont understand or wont admit is that with
bank transfers (whichever coding system is used) the buyer has no automated recourse
if let down either by a fraudulent or just a bad seller or an otherwise honest
seller thats made an error that he/she wont correct.
With paypal, almost everything can be handled by the dispute console (whether
paypal should be allowed to do this is a different bucket of monkeys altogether).
That is essentially the difference.
Plus, paypal has positives for sellers too, it gives a simple, easy breakdown
of incomings and associated fees and any refunds that the seller chooses to make.
With bank transfers, you have to do the work yourself and busy sellers will have
a lot of pages of bank statement to work through. Plus most of all, it opens
you up to thousands of people who wouldnt consider buying from you at all if
you didnt accept it.
|
Paypal does make the world smaller, but not everyone has an Paypal-account.
That's why sellers receive payments from different names than the buyers.
Bank-accounts are oldfashioned, but most people do have one.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:02 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
Gareth
|
And for a buyer's protection they have to start a claim before the 45 day mark.
45 days from the date of the payment, I understand it's frustrating when a
buyer files a claim and you sent their item. But they have a time limit, even
if they know you shipped it on xday before the 45 day mark they would have to
file a claim to protect their rights. Maybe they were shipped a box of rocks
in the slowest manner possible? Not saying you would but a scammer might.
Tracy
|
Absolutely. What some sellers either dont understand or wont admit is that with
bank transfers (whichever coding system is used) the buyer has no automated recourse
if let down either by a fraudulent or just a bad seller or an otherwise honest
seller thats made an error that he/she wont correct.
With paypal, almost everything can be handled by the dispute console (whether
paypal should be allowed to do this is a different bucket of monkeys altogether).
That is essentially the difference.
Plus, paypal has positives for sellers too, it gives a simple, easy breakdown
of incomings and associated fees and any refunds that the seller chooses to make.
With bank transfers, you have to do the work yourself and busy sellers will have
a lot of pages of bank statement to work through. Plus most of all, it opens
you up to thousands of people who wouldnt consider buying from you at all if
you didnt accept it.
|
Paypal does make the world smaller, but not everyone has an Paypal-account.
That's why sellers receive payments from different names than the buyers.
Bank-accounts are oldfashioned, but most people do have one.
|
I think, by the sounds of the general consensus of the people that aren't EU
sellers is.
While it's great to want to save fees (from the selling perspective), by trying
to exclude paypal from those regions where people 'could' use paypal,
sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
buyers get to give up the right to chargeback if the seller doesn't send the
item.
Seems like an all-win scenario and a breakeven or lose for those buyers and because
you want the site to allow you to do this, those buyers that can pay with either
would either be forced to take those risks (for no benefit) shop at some EU shop
that doesn't do that or shop overseas where prices may be lower, but shipping
higher.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:13 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
Gareth
|
And for a buyer's protection they have to start a claim before the 45 day mark.
45 days from the date of the payment, I understand it's frustrating when a
buyer files a claim and you sent their item. But they have a time limit, even
if they know you shipped it on xday before the 45 day mark they would have to
file a claim to protect their rights. Maybe they were shipped a box of rocks
in the slowest manner possible? Not saying you would but a scammer might.
Tracy
|
Absolutely. What some sellers either dont understand or wont admit is that with
bank transfers (whichever coding system is used) the buyer has no automated recourse
if let down either by a fraudulent or just a bad seller or an otherwise honest
seller thats made an error that he/she wont correct.
With paypal, almost everything can be handled by the dispute console (whether
paypal should be allowed to do this is a different bucket of monkeys altogether).
That is essentially the difference.
Plus, paypal has positives for sellers too, it gives a simple, easy breakdown
of incomings and associated fees and any refunds that the seller chooses to make.
With bank transfers, you have to do the work yourself and busy sellers will have
a lot of pages of bank statement to work through. Plus most of all, it opens
you up to thousands of people who wouldnt consider buying from you at all if
you didnt accept it.
|
Paypal does make the world smaller, but not everyone has an Paypal-account.
That's why sellers receive payments from different names than the buyers.
Bank-accounts are oldfashioned, but most people do have one.
|
I think, by the sounds of the general consensus of the people that aren't EU
sellers is.
While it's great to want to save fees (from the selling perspective), by trying
to exclude paypal from those regions where people 'could' use paypal,
sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
| | buyers get to give up the right to chargeback if the seller doesn't send the
item.
|
A seller who hasn't sent the order is a scammer and would've cleared out his
PP account long before the buyer filed a chargeback. No chance in getting anything
then, as anyone can open a PP account with a fake identity.
Paying by IBAN gives the buyer at least the chance to file a fraud claim against
a person with a known identity.
Ronald
| |
Seems like an all-win scenario and a breakeven or lose for those buyers and because
you want the site to allow you to do this, those buyers that can pay with either
would either be forced to take those risks (for no benefit) shop at some EU shop
that doesn't do that or shop overseas where prices may be lower, but shipping
higher.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:25 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:31 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:34 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
but IBAN buyers still pay lot fees right?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:38 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
but IBAN buyers still pay lot fees right?
|
IBAN payments within the eurozone: ZERO fees...!!
Richard
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:40 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
but IBAN buyers still pay lot fees right?
|
I offently drop them down for IBAN users
Most certainly for repeated buyers (regardless wether IBAN or PP)
And I'm working on it: by Januari they should be gone
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | elias3 | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:40 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
but IBAN buyers still pay lot fees right?
|
No
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:42 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
but IBAN buyers still pay lot fees right?
|
No
|
I think he was refering to my store
but that has been answered
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:43 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
but IBAN buyers still pay lot fees right?
|
No
|
I think he was refering to my store
|
I was
| | but that has been answered
|
Indeed it has thankyou
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:49 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | sellers get the plus of less or no fees
sellers get the plus of never having a chargeback
buyers get the plus of ..........nothing
|
| | Wrong. They get better prices and less fees.
|
How do the buyers get better prices and less fees?
|
Read my store slogan
|
but IBAN buyers still pay lot fees right?
|
No
|
I think he was refering to my store
|
I was
| | but that has been answered
|
Indeed it has thankyou
|
Not forgetting in the mean while almost my complete store is -10% (so for IBAN
users nearly -20%) except newly added items (as I'm already calculating my fees
in those newly listed items) AND it is only for orders between 5 (my store minimum)
and 25 Euro (above that: no fees at all)
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:08 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
Gareth
|
And for a buyer's protection they have to start a claim before the 45 day mark.
45 days from the date of the payment, I understand it's frustrating when a
buyer files a claim and you sent their item. But they have a time limit, even
if they know you shipped it on xday before the 45 day mark they would have to
file a claim to protect their rights. Maybe they were shipped a box of rocks
in the slowest manner possible? Not saying you would but a scammer might.
Tracy
|
Absolutely. What some sellers either dont understand or wont admit is that with
bank transfers (whichever coding system is used) the buyer has no automated recourse
if let down either by a fraudulent or just a bad seller or an otherwise honest
seller thats made an error that he/she wont correct.
With paypal, almost everything can be handled by the dispute console (whether
paypal should be allowed to do this is a different bucket of monkeys altogether).
That is essentially the difference.
Plus, paypal has positives for sellers too, it gives a simple, easy breakdown
of incomings and associated fees and any refunds that the seller chooses to make.
With bank transfers, you have to do the work yourself and busy sellers will have
a lot of pages of bank statement to work through. Plus most of all, it opens
you up to thousands of people who wouldnt consider buying from you at all if
you didnt accept it.
|
Paypal does make the world smaller, but not everyone has an Paypal-account.
|
Correct: Recently had a buyer selecting IBAN, paid the bill, but then decided
to add some stuff (after asking). As the rest of his order was ready I said:
well you can send the addition by Paypal if you like: He couldn't: no Paypal
account
| | That's why sellers receive payments from different names than the buyers.
|
Yep, and also 'receive': I use my account and my wife's, both for receiving payments
and making payments (both accounts are legit.)
| | Bank-accounts are oldfashioned, but most people do have one.
|
And probably more then one
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Murky | | Posted: | Nov 12, 2011 08:18 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| There are of course some who for whatever reason prefer to pay through IBAN or
any other payment option besides PayPal.
And that is great and something more sellers should consider adding as an option
to their store.
But this suggestion is not whether or not IBAN should be a valid *option*.
It is about whether or not it should be the *only* choice (based on nationality).
For those who already use IBAN this would not change anything. For those who
prefer PayPal (or anything else), they would now be blocked from buying in that
store.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 12, 2011 09:16 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | There are of course some who for whatever reason prefer to pay through IBAN or
any other payment option besides PayPal.
And that is great and something more sellers should consider adding as an option
to their store.
But this suggestion is not whether or not IBAN should be a valid *option*.
It is about whether or not it should be the *only* choice (based on nationality).
For those who already use IBAN this would not change anything. For those who
prefer PayPal (or anything else), they would now be blocked from buying in that
store.
|
Nobody gets blocked because they're not stoplisted.
Buyers keep having their own reasons & choices where they buy or not.
It's possible to search by preferences at "Search Items For Sale" here http://www.bricklink.com/searchAdvanced.asp
A search for Western Union at "Seller accepts: - payment method" will exclude
all stores who dont accept Western Union based on certain payment method.
It's possible to exclude whole continents!
That's not unfair to all those excluded stores, but free market.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Murky | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 13:20 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
should we next exclude people based on religious affiliation, what bank they
use, gender or sexual preference?
There is no "forcing" of course, a buyer can simply go elsewhere.
But it forcing in the sense that if I wish to buy from the given store, I am
restricted to a certain payment type. A restriction I would not have if I lived
elsewhere.
It is ridiculous of course, that my "next" examples will ever happen.
But if the discussion turns to "principles", then there is no difference between
restrictions made on location compared to the other restrictions.
And there are more payment options than PayPal of course, so allowing that (but
not X and Y) also technically "restricts" I suppose, but it is silly to argue
that "everything" should be allowed, no one is really claiming that. The argument
is that saying that certain countries will not have the same options as everyone
is wrong. PayPal should always be allowed.
BL's "only" restriction is the age limit of 18. But this is a legal exception
which we must have for things to work.
And yes, I know of course that some stores only sell to some countries, but that
is not really a part of the issue here.
IBAN is quite good for the sellers of course, but it is a demerit to the buyers.
If we are to give up all buyer protection, then at least we should get something
in return.
Oh, and a transfer from one account to another - unless it is very large - will
initially avoid any taxation system and accounting out there. There is no bill
sent to the buyer per se, so the bank will have no information that the money
transferred is in relations to invoice this and that.
A seller can thus relatively easy hide the money transferred from accounting
and thus taxation purposes.
Now I am not saying that our esteemed BL seller will do such things, but why
create a tool and option for the ones that do fall prey to the temptation of
avoiding taxes (if only a wee bit)?
If we allow restrictions on payment, shipping, insurance, what bricks can be
bought etc. made on location (more than we already do), I fear we are opening
a hornets nest, and the buyers will pay the price for it. (And in the end of
course, it will affect the sellers).
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 13:55 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
should we next exclude people based on religious affiliation, what bank they
use, gender or sexual preference?
There is no "forcing" of course, a buyer can simply go elsewhere.
But it forcing in the sense that if I wish to buy from the given store, I am
restricted to a certain payment type. A restriction I would not have if I lived
elsewhere.
It is ridiculous of course, that my "next" examples will ever happen.
But if the discussion turns to "principles", then there is no difference between
restrictions made on location compared to the other restrictions.
And there are more payment options than PayPal of course, so allowing that (but
not X and Y) also technically "restricts" I suppose, but it is silly to argue
that "everything" should be allowed, no one is really claiming that. The argument
is that saying that certain countries will not have the same options as everyone
is wrong. PayPal should always be allowed.
BL's "only" restriction is the age limit of 18. But this is a legal exception
which we must have for things to work.
And yes, I know of course that some stores only sell to some countries, but that
is not really a part of the issue here.
IBAN is quite good for the sellers of course, but it is a demerit to the buyers.
If we are to give up all buyer protection, then at least we should get something
in return.
Oh, and a transfer from one account to another - unless it is very large - will
initially avoid any taxation system and accounting out there. There is no bill
sent to the buyer per se, so the bank will have no information that the money
transferred is in relations to invoice this and that.
A seller can thus relatively easy hide the money transferred from accounting
and thus taxation purposes.
Now I am not saying that our esteemed BL seller will do such things, but why
create a tool and option for the ones that do fall prey to the temptation of
avoiding taxes (if only a wee bit)?
If we allow restrictions on payment, shipping, insurance, what bricks can be
bought etc. made on location (more than we already do), I fear we are opening
a hornets nest, and the buyers will pay the price for it. (And in the end of
course, it will affect the sellers).
|
The buyers will pay the price anyway: if the few rotten apples in the basket
of buyers are placing orders and accepting store terms of a seller, then later
disregard the terms of that seller, by making a Paypal claim on an untraceable
sending, it's only going to result in a game where sellers will start to play
it 'safe', basicly by adding 'trace' or 'registered'(signed for) on smaller orders...
A year ago my threshold for untrackable or un-registered shipments was 100 Euro.
Since spring it is 50 Euro and reading the many threads the last few weeks, it
is not unlikely I will lower the threshold to 25/30 Euro. After all, when orders
go out, with no proof of shipping (and worse: no proof of delivery) the one that
will end up in the cold is...me, the seller, not the buyer (if Paypal is used).
To avoid that, the only option is to lower the risk by lowering the threshold
(less money involved) or... try to convince buyers to use alternate payment methods
(IBAN). Postal system ain't bad, true: once in a while things get 'stuck' or
'lost' (speaking in general) or are delayed, but so far I did not have many problems
with those lowcost (matter of speak) shipments: not even 0.5 %
But if in future (and I am thinking of bad apples, not postal problems)the problem
grows and becomes 3 or 5 % or even more, the only option will be to... add 'registered'
or 'trace' on smaller orders: So the buyer will pay (and I will as well, as more
sellers will do the same thing).
my 2 Legocents
Eric
PS YES to the addional option
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:23 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| The issue though is not with the sellers that are honest and have integrity,
but those that see this as a way to trick the system.
By the same argument, people that want to rip off sellers, won't use those services.
Now, because the few people that use the forum will only highlight those transactions
that go bad, it seems like all buyers are impatient and all sellers can never
show they sent the package.
In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
should we next exclude people based on religious affiliation, what bank they
use, gender or sexual preference?
There is no "forcing" of course, a buyer can simply go elsewhere.
But it forcing in the sense that if I wish to buy from the given store, I am
restricted to a certain payment type. A restriction I would not have if I lived
elsewhere.
It is ridiculous of course, that my "next" examples will ever happen.
But if the discussion turns to "principles", then there is no difference between
restrictions made on location compared to the other restrictions.
And there are more payment options than PayPal of course, so allowing that (but
not X and Y) also technically "restricts" I suppose, but it is silly to argue
that "everything" should be allowed, no one is really claiming that. The argument
is that saying that certain countries will not have the same options as everyone
is wrong. PayPal should always be allowed.
BL's "only" restriction is the age limit of 18. But this is a legal exception
which we must have for things to work.
And yes, I know of course that some stores only sell to some countries, but that
is not really a part of the issue here.
IBAN is quite good for the sellers of course, but it is a demerit to the buyers.
If we are to give up all buyer protection, then at least we should get something
in return.
Oh, and a transfer from one account to another - unless it is very large - will
initially avoid any taxation system and accounting out there. There is no bill
sent to the buyer per se, so the bank will have no information that the money
transferred is in relations to invoice this and that.
A seller can thus relatively easy hide the money transferred from accounting
and thus taxation purposes.
Now I am not saying that our esteemed BL seller will do such things, but why
create a tool and option for the ones that do fall prey to the temptation of
avoiding taxes (if only a wee bit)?
If we allow restrictions on payment, shipping, insurance, what bricks can be
bought etc. made on location (more than we already do), I fear we are opening
a hornets nest, and the buyers will pay the price for it. (And in the end of
course, it will affect the sellers).
|
The buyers will pay the price anyway: if the few rotten apples in the basket
of buyers are placing orders and accepting store terms of a seller, then later
disregard the terms of that seller, by making a Paypal claim on an untraceable
sending, it's only going to result in a game where sellers will start to play
it 'safe', basicly by adding 'trace' or 'registered'(signed for) on smaller orders...
A year ago my threshold for untrackable or un-registered shipments was 100 Euro.
Since spring it is 50 Euro and reading the many threads the last few weeks, it
is not unlikely I will lower the threshold to 25/30 Euro. After all, when orders
go out, with no proof of shipping (and worse: no proof of delivery) the one that
will end up in the cold is...me, the seller, not the buyer (if Paypal is used).
To avoid that, the only option is to lower the risk by lowering the threshold
(less money involved) or... try to convince buyers to use alternate payment methods
(IBAN). Postal system ain't bad, true: once in a while things get 'stuck' or
'lost' (speaking in general) or are delayed, but so far I did not have many problems
with those lowcost (matter of speak) shipments: not even 0.5 %
But if in future (and I am thinking of bad apples, not postal problems)the problem
grows and becomes 3 or 5 % or even more, the only option will be to... add 'registered'
or 'trace' on smaller orders: So the buyer will pay (and I will as well, as more
sellers will do the same thing).
my 2 Legocents
Eric
PS YES to the addional option
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:30 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | The issue though is not with the sellers that are honest and have integrity,
but those that see this as a way to trick the system.
By the same argument, people that want to rip off sellers, won't use those services.
Now, because the few people that use the forum will only highlight those transactions
that go bad, it seems like all buyers are impatient and all sellers can never
show they sent the package.
|
Because some postal systems simply don't have that option for small shipments
(ie Bpost and Dutch Post), so 'registered' is the only option for those sellers
if they want to have the slightest proof.
And proof of shipment isn't enough for Paypal anyway as they require 'proof of
delivery': AND a fully trackable package isn't 'worthy' enough either for them
if their is no proof of delivery
| |
In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
should we next exclude people based on religious affiliation, what bank they
use, gender or sexual preference?
There is no "forcing" of course, a buyer can simply go elsewhere.
But it forcing in the sense that if I wish to buy from the given store, I am
restricted to a certain payment type. A restriction I would not have if I lived
elsewhere.
It is ridiculous of course, that my "next" examples will ever happen.
But if the discussion turns to "principles", then there is no difference between
restrictions made on location compared to the other restrictions.
And there are more payment options than PayPal of course, so allowing that (but
not X and Y) also technically "restricts" I suppose, but it is silly to argue
that "everything" should be allowed, no one is really claiming that. The argument
is that saying that certain countries will not have the same options as everyone
is wrong. PayPal should always be allowed.
BL's "only" restriction is the age limit of 18. But this is a legal exception
which we must have for things to work.
And yes, I know of course that some stores only sell to some countries, but that
is not really a part of the issue here.
IBAN is quite good for the sellers of course, but it is a demerit to the buyers.
If we are to give up all buyer protection, then at least we should get something
in return.
Oh, and a transfer from one account to another - unless it is very large - will
initially avoid any taxation system and accounting out there. There is no bill
sent to the buyer per se, so the bank will have no information that the money
transferred is in relations to invoice this and that.
A seller can thus relatively easy hide the money transferred from accounting
and thus taxation purposes.
Now I am not saying that our esteemed BL seller will do such things, but why
create a tool and option for the ones that do fall prey to the temptation of
avoiding taxes (if only a wee bit)?
If we allow restrictions on payment, shipping, insurance, what bricks can be
bought etc. made on location (more than we already do), I fear we are opening
a hornets nest, and the buyers will pay the price for it. (And in the end of
course, it will affect the sellers).
|
The buyers will pay the price anyway: if the few rotten apples in the basket
of buyers are placing orders and accepting store terms of a seller, then later
disregard the terms of that seller, by making a Paypal claim on an untraceable
sending, it's only going to result in a game where sellers will start to play
it 'safe', basicly by adding 'trace' or 'registered'(signed for) on smaller orders...
A year ago my threshold for untrackable or un-registered shipments was 100 Euro.
Since spring it is 50 Euro and reading the many threads the last few weeks, it
is not unlikely I will lower the threshold to 25/30 Euro. After all, when orders
go out, with no proof of shipping (and worse: no proof of delivery) the one that
will end up in the cold is...me, the seller, not the buyer (if Paypal is used).
To avoid that, the only option is to lower the risk by lowering the threshold
(less money involved) or... try to convince buyers to use alternate payment methods
(IBAN). Postal system ain't bad, true: once in a while things get 'stuck' or
'lost' (speaking in general) or are delayed, but so far I did not have many problems
with those lowcost (matter of speak) shipments: not even 0.5 %
But if in future (and I am thinking of bad apples, not postal problems)the problem
grows and becomes 3 or 5 % or even more, the only option will be to... add 'registered'
or 'trace' on smaller orders: So the buyer will pay (and I will as well, as more
sellers will do the same thing).
my 2 Legocents
Eric
PS YES to the addional option
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Murky | | Posted: | Nov 12, 2011 08:07 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | (snip)
Since spring it is 50 Euro and reading the many threads the last few weeks, it
is not unlikely I will lower the threshold to 25/30 Euro. After all, when orders
go out, with no proof of shipping (and worse: no proof of delivery) the one that
will end up in the cold is...me, the seller, not the buyer (if Paypal is used).
(snip)
|
Treating "all" buyers as potential thieves and scammers until proven otherwise,
might not be the best way to treat people. If the issue here is that buyers cannot
be trusted... then why should - by the same chain of thought - the sellers be
any more trusted. Why should sellers get protection at the expense of the buyers?
It would be interested to see some actual numbers here, if we compare percentage-wise.
Impossible to tell if a package is lost, never sent or received but lying about
it, of course. But to make it out like it is primarily buyers scamming sellers
and not both ways is wrong.
Yes, of course the large unethical sellers out there are easily discovered. Likewise
are that sort of buyers spotted and banned, but the problem is lies with everything
that falls between. That one time now and then a buyer falls for the temptation
to claim the package did not arrive, or that one time the seller does not send
out the package after all. Cases which happens more often.
| | PS YES to the addional option
|
One question though.
How does allowing for restricting payment options for country X and Z in any
way help with the potential of scamming buyers? Could not people from country
A or B just as easily trick and cheat you?
All this restriction option is saying is that people from X and Z, but the merit
of the printing and colour of their passports are less trustworthy and humans
from another country like A and B. Such a ruling will allow for BrickLink sellers
to discriminate based on nationality.
Now, having additional payment options, like IBAN, and even as far as offering
a discount if the buyer uses them is great. Yes, not everyone in the world can
use them, but that goes with a lot of different things like shipping types etc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 14:25 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
|
Hi,
you also misunderstand the sense behind this suggestion.
No one wants to exclude buyers from using PayPal based on their country but only
based on their ability to use another payment method (IBAN), which is as convenient
as PayPal in most SEPA countries, which saves fees on both ends and which is
as safe as PayPal as long as the seller can show proof that they sent the order.
On fraudulent transactions PayPal is the least safe payment method.
Ronald
| | should we next exclude people based on religious affiliation, what bank they
use, gender or sexual preference?
There is no "forcing" of course, a buyer can simply go elsewhere.
But it forcing in the sense that if I wish to buy from the given store, I am
restricted to a certain payment type. A restriction I would not have if I lived
elsewhere.
It is ridiculous of course, that my "next" examples will ever happen.
But if the discussion turns to "principles", then there is no difference between
restrictions made on location compared to the other restrictions.
And there are more payment options than PayPal of course, so allowing that (but
not X and Y) also technically "restricts" I suppose, but it is silly to argue
that "everything" should be allowed, no one is really claiming that. The argument
is that saying that certain countries will not have the same options as everyone
is wrong. PayPal should always be allowed.
BL's "only" restriction is the age limit of 18. But this is a legal exception
which we must have for things to work.
And yes, I know of course that some stores only sell to some countries, but that
is not really a part of the issue here.
IBAN is quite good for the sellers of course, but it is a demerit to the buyers.
If we are to give up all buyer protection, then at least we should get something
in return.
Oh, and a transfer from one account to another - unless it is very large - will
initially avoid any taxation system and accounting out there. There is no bill
sent to the buyer per se, so the bank will have no information that the money
transferred is in relations to invoice this and that.
A seller can thus relatively easy hide the money transferred from accounting
and thus taxation purposes.
Now I am not saying that our esteemed BL seller will do such things, but why
create a tool and option for the ones that do fall prey to the temptation of
avoiding taxes (if only a wee bit)?
If we allow restrictions on payment, shipping, insurance, what bricks can be
bought etc. made on location (more than we already do), I fear we are opening
a hornets nest, and the buyers will pay the price for it. (And in the end of
course, it will affect the sellers).
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 15:05 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
|
Hi,
you also misunderstand the sense behind this suggestion.
No one wants to exclude buyers from using PayPal based on their country but only
based on their ability to use another payment method (IBAN), which is as convenient
as PayPal in most SEPA countries, which saves fees on both ends and which is
as safe as PayPal as long as the seller can show proof that they sent the order.
On fraudulent transactions PayPal is the least safe payment method.
Ronald
|
"most", not all. That there folks is as close as you'll get to an admission that
the suggestion is flawed
what about buyer safety Ronald? And I am not talking about fraud here. whilst
you may be an honest seller, I have dealt with (directly and by advising others)
dozens of poor individual sellers who supply used items described as new, faulty
items, etc etc who will not fix the problems they cause, several of them have
been told on this very forum that they should initiate a paypal chargeback, many
against eurozone sellers who may use this suggestion if implemented.
How does that work with IBAN? I had an overpayment once and the only way the
buyer could get money back was to ask his bank to write to my bank who then wrote
to me for permission to make the partial refund. That does not cut it for buyer
protection. Unless something has changed since, if an IBAN only seller supplies
a E500 set as used when it was described as mint, the only way the buyer can
get their money back is by spending months chasing the seller in a court, probably
a court in a different country too.
the above is the reason that so many people CHOOSE paypal when they have alternatives.
I believe it would be detrimental to bricklink and its reputation to allow sellers
to force that lack of choice in the manner this suggestion prescribes.
It is already possible for you to stop accepting paypal if it is too risky for
you, so why dont you try that?
Gareth
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 15:24 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
|
Hi,
you also misunderstand the sense behind this suggestion.
No one wants to exclude buyers from using PayPal based on their country but only
based on their ability to use another payment method (IBAN), which is as convenient
as PayPal in most SEPA countries, which saves fees on both ends and which is
as safe as PayPal as long as the seller can show proof that they sent the order.
On fraudulent transactions PayPal is the least safe payment method.
Ronald
|
"most", not all. That there folks is as close as you'll get to an admission that
the suggestion is flawed
what about buyer safety Ronald? And I am not talking about fraud here. whilst
you may be an honest seller, I have dealt with (directly and by advising others)
dozens of poor individual sellers who supply used items described as new, faulty
items, etc etc who will not fix the problems they cause, several of them have
been told on this very forum that they should initiate a paypal chargeback, many
against eurozone sellers who may use this suggestion if implemented.
How does that work with IBAN? I had an overpayment once and the only way the
buyer could get money back was to ask his bank to write to my bank who then wrote
to me for permission to make the partial refund. That does not cut it for buyer
protection. Unless something has changed since, if an IBAN only seller supplies
a E500 set as used when it was described as mint, the only way the buyer can
get their money back is by spending months chasing the seller in a court, probably
a court in a different country too.
the above is the reason that so many people CHOOSE paypal when they have alternatives.
|
...and then they can safely choose the cheapest shipping method, knowing that
PayPal will always decide in their favour if things go awry...
... and that, in turn, will lead sellers to enforce (far) more expensive registered
etc shipping for PayPal payments...
So in the long term...
Who loses? Buyers (will need to pay more expensive shipping).
Who wins? PayPal (% over more expensive shipping)
Richard
| | I believe it would be detrimental to bricklink and its reputation to allow sellers
to force that lack of choice in the manner this suggestion prescribes.
It is already possible for you to stop accepting paypal if it is too risky for
you, so why dont you try that?
Gareth
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 15:41 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
|
Hi,
you also misunderstand the sense behind this suggestion.
No one wants to exclude buyers from using PayPal based on their country but only
based on their ability to use another payment method (IBAN), which is as convenient
as PayPal in most SEPA countries, which saves fees on both ends and which is
as safe as PayPal as long as the seller can show proof that they sent the order.
On fraudulent transactions PayPal is the least safe payment method.
Ronald
|
"most", not all. That there folks is as close as you'll get to an admission that
the suggestion is flawed
what about buyer safety Ronald? And I am not talking about fraud here. whilst
you may be an honest seller, I have dealt with (directly and by advising others)
dozens of poor individual sellers who supply used items described as new, faulty
items, etc etc who will not fix the problems they cause, several of them have
been told on this very forum that they should initiate a paypal chargeback, many
against eurozone sellers who may use this suggestion if implemented.
How does that work with IBAN? I had an overpayment once and the only way the
buyer could get money back was to ask his bank to write to my bank who then wrote
to me for permission to make the partial refund. That does not cut it for buyer
protection. Unless something has changed since, if an IBAN only seller supplies
a E500 set as used when it was described as mint, the only way the buyer can
get their money back is by spending months chasing the seller in a court, probably
a court in a different country too.
the above is the reason that so many people CHOOSE paypal when they have alternatives.
|
...and then they can safely choose the cheapest shipping method, knowing that
PayPal will always decide in their favour if things go awry...
... and that, in turn, will lead sellers to enforce (far) more expensive registered
etc shipping for PayPal payments...
So in the long term...
Who loses? Buyers (will need to pay more expensive shipping).
Who wins? PayPal (% over more expensive shipping)
|
Yep,
and that is also the reason the motherhouse of Paypal has also included fees
on the billed 'shippingcosts' on their auctionsite (there was another reason
according to them, but that was just a minority, looking at the amount of transactions,
so that was NOT the real reason): because it is simply 'chingching' (jackpot).
| |
Richard
| | I believe it would be detrimental to bricklink and its reputation to allow sellers
to force that lack of choice in the manner this suggestion prescribes.
It is already possible for you to stop accepting paypal if it is too risky for
you, so why dont you try that?
Gareth
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 15:48 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
|
Hi,
you also misunderstand the sense behind this suggestion.
No one wants to exclude buyers from using PayPal based on their country but only
based on their ability to use another payment method (IBAN), which is as convenient
as PayPal in most SEPA countries, which saves fees on both ends and which is
as safe as PayPal as long as the seller can show proof that they sent the order.
On fraudulent transactions PayPal is the least safe payment method.
Ronald
|
"most", not all. That there folks is as close as you'll get to an admission that
the suggestion is flawed
what about buyer safety Ronald? And I am not talking about fraud here. whilst
you may be an honest seller, I have dealt with (directly and by advising others)
dozens of poor individual sellers who supply used items described as new, faulty
items, etc etc who will not fix the problems they cause, several of them have
been told on this very forum that they should initiate a paypal chargeback, many
against eurozone sellers who may use this suggestion if implemented.
How does that work with IBAN? I had an overpayment once and the only way the
buyer could get money back was to ask his bank to write to my bank who then wrote
to me for permission to make the partial refund.
|
I would have enclosed overpayment within the shipment as in the pre-Paypal days.
| | That does not cut it for buyer protection.
Unless something has changed since, if an IBAN only seller supplies
a E500 set as used when it was described as mint, the only way the buyer can
get their money back is by spending months chasing the seller in a court, probably
a court in a different country too.
the above is the reason that so many people CHOOSE paypal when they have alternatives.
|
Seller and buyer can make an arrangement for large amounts.
According to a thread a few weeks ago, most orders are about €25 or below.
Those would double in cost when shipped with delivery confirmation.
99% of the people prefer to have theirs shipped the cheapest way.
| | I believe it would be detrimental to bricklink and its reputation to allow sellers
to force that lack of choice in the manner this suggestion prescribes.
It is already possible for you to stop accepting paypal if it is too risky for
you, so why dont you try that?
Gareth
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 06:55 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| You are describing it as some kind of apocalyptic scenario when in fact it is
the normal way of doing business Companies worldwide use different prices,
conditions, product ranges for different markets that they target - or refuse
to target. There are good and bad sides to that, but the reality is that they
can do this freely. It's not like you can only sign up to become a seller
on Bricklink if you vow to cater the entire world.
In fact, a shop is allowed to refuse you, personally. I have been blocked by
one of this countries major websites, Bol.com, for ordering too much that was
on offer, even though other people were allowed to buy that. I made a call to
this government consumer rights helpdesk and they told me this is in fact allowed,
and that it only is discrimination when a seller will categorically refuse a
group of people based on ethnicity or religion.
Maybe there are grey areas or slipperly slopes, but when it comes to country-based
policies, it is understood that the considerations are practical/financial and
not personal discrimination of individuals. Although there are also sellers on
Bricklink who choose to boycot certain countries.
In Suggestions, Murky writes:
| | I wonder,
If sellers should be allowed to exclude buyers base solely based of their country,
should we next exclude people based on religious affiliation, what bank they
use, gender or sexual preference?
There is no "forcing" of course, a buyer can simply go elsewhere.
But it forcing in the sense that if I wish to buy from the given store, I am
restricted to a certain payment type. A restriction I would not have if I lived
elsewhere.
It is ridiculous of course, that my "next" examples will ever happen.
But if the discussion turns to "principles", then there is no difference between
restrictions made on location compared to the other restrictions.
And there are more payment options than PayPal of course, so allowing that (but
not X and Y) also technically "restricts" I suppose, but it is silly to argue
that "everything" should be allowed, no one is really claiming that. The argument
is that saying that certain countries will not have the same options as everyone
is wrong. PayPal should always be allowed.
BL's "only" restriction is the age limit of 18. But this is a legal exception
which we must have for things to work.
And yes, I know of course that some stores only sell to some countries, but that
is not really a part of the issue here.
IBAN is quite good for the sellers of course, but it is a demerit to the buyers.
If we are to give up all buyer protection, then at least we should get something
in return.
Oh, and a transfer from one account to another - unless it is very large - will
initially avoid any taxation system and accounting out there. There is no bill
sent to the buyer per se, so the bank will have no information that the money
transferred is in relations to invoice this and that.
A seller can thus relatively easy hide the money transferred from accounting
and thus taxation purposes.
Now I am not saying that our esteemed BL seller will do such things, but why
create a tool and option for the ones that do fall prey to the temptation of
avoiding taxes (if only a wee bit)?
If we allow restrictions on payment, shipping, insurance, what bricks can be
bought etc. made on location (more than we already do), I fear we are opening
a hornets nest, and the buyers will pay the price for it. (And in the end of
course, it will affect the sellers).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 17:39 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
|
|
|
|
| | | | Do you also propose that the small number of buyers from the countries below
should also be barred from using paypal in your store just because they can
pay using IBAN?
Dominican Republic, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Mauritania, Mauritius,
Saudi Arabia, Tunisia and United Arab Emirates
|
Hi Gareth,
it seems that there is some confusion on your end about the issue.
The payment method defined in BrickLink as "IBAN" does not mean "Bank Transfer
from any countries which use the IBAN/BIC numbering system in their banking system".
It rather refers to the standard Bank Transfer method initially used within the
EU countries and for some time now expanded to the SEPA countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
The name of this payment method - in BrickLink still and commonly named IBAN
- has also changed to "SEPA-Payments"
|
There is no confusion on my part, please do not presume there is. Perhaps we
should suggest changing the bricklink description to include a note about SEPA
only. Being as presently it only states "IBAN" which refers to international
bank account number and thus implies that anyone from a country using the IBAN
coding system can pay using bank transfer.
|
Indeed. IBAN can get confused with "Bank Transfer" which also is a payment method
possible in the settings.
| |
| | This payment type is the most common way to transfer money between SEPA countries.
|
Says who? Please provide actual hard evidence from a reliable source which relates
to actual ecommerce transactions between business and consumer; leaving out all
the mum to child, bank to bank and business to business transactions.
|
| |
| | The fact that the UK government thinks **
|
Please do not make political statements in the forum!
|
Stating facts about the acting of a country are political statements 
Uff 
In BrickLink you learn new things every day
| |
| | The countries you mentioned above are NOT part of the SEPA, and only using the
same bank account numbering system does not come along with the same (mostly
feeless) fee structure as within SEPA countries, in fact accepting bank transfers
from these countries is in no way economic due to the very high inflated fees
as these are *NOT* SEPA-Payments.
|
All the more reason to split IBAN into 2 categories. IBAN (non-SEPA) and IBAN
(SEPA)?
|
Already exists. BrickLink supports Bank Transfer and IBAN. IBAN for within SEPA
countries and Bank Transfer for all other countries. In some countries domestic
money transfer between banks is also called commonly "Bank Transfer" (in Germany
for example).
| |
| | The sense behind not accepting PayPal from SEPA countries for transactions in
BrickLink is not only to minimize the chargeback risk, but also to minimize fees
for sellers (which always cause higher prices and/or handling fees for buyers).
|
You could minimise the risk of chargeback by simply not accepting paypal at all.
|
That's not the point at all. For many countries PayPal is the only economic way
to transfer money. But why to accept it from countries where other options are
cheaper and at least as convenient to use as PayPal?
It's already possible to differentiate between domestic and international,
Why not expanding it countrywise?
| |
| | There's really no logical reason to use PayPal instead of "IBAN" within SEPA
countries,
|
Yes, there is. A very simple one that you probably don't care about. It is the
preferred choice of buyers, for several reasons, which don't really matter here.
Bank transfers have been possible in the UK for many many years, most bricklink
users in the UK choose not to pay with it, preferring paypal for its security
and convenience.
99% of my UK buyers pay with paypal, 0.2% pay by bank transfer, 0.8% with other
methods such as cheque or postal order. 97% of my SEPA buyers pay with paypal,
just 3% with IBAN/SEPA.
|
Well, that's again a special thing within the UK. Ask sellers from countries
where Bank Transfer is commonly used for decades, they will provide the opposite
numbers.
About 30% of my customers from countries which provide problem-free IBAN use
IBAN.
I had IBAN payments from almost all SEPA countries, except from UK (think about!)
and some new EU countries.
| |
I for one would not want to write off such a large proportion of my customers.
But I feel if you wish to, you should be allowed to, not by choosing who you
can accept paypal from, but by choosing simply to not accept paypal at all.
|
Why that? Again, why should it be possible only to differentiate between domestic
and international but not to split up international?
| |
You either want the cake or you dont, there is little point in picking out the
jam and cream in the middle and just eating the sponge because the jam and cream
contain afew extra calories.
What I still cannot understand is why accepting paypal from outside the EU with
all its fees is good enough for you, but within the EU it isnt?
|
Again, because for many countries other payment methods make no economic sense.
| |
Are EU buyers more likely to raise a chargeback than non-EU buyers? If yes, are
those chargebacks because of fraudulent buyers or chargebacks because a given
seller has failed to ship what he said he would, sent dirty or broken parts,
sent used items that were described as new, MISB etc etc and wouldnt provide
|
| | the refund he/she may be legally obligated to provide voluntarily?
Some chargebacks are done through haste or misunderstanding yes, that is a major
frustration but the majority I suspect are placed by honest people where the
seller has been at fault. I do not think it is appropriate to suggest that any
one nation or group of nations is more likely to commit fraud, haste or misunderstanding
without something a bit more solid than because some sellers want to save some
fees.
|
Again, it's not against any nation, as already written several times.
| |
| | Again, nobody wants to discriminate anyone, it's simply a suggestion to implement
an *option* to exclude people from paying by PayPal who always have another payment
option which is as convenient as PayPal in *many* SEPA countries but avoids the
chargeback risk for sellers.
|
Again, there is an option to exclude people from paying by paypal, that is dont
accept paypal. Those overseas can still pay with Western Union (and probably
some others that I have forgotten about)
|
I still think you missed the intention of the OP and my supporting him.
Ronald
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 07:04 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | 99% of my UK buyers pay with paypal, 0.2% pay by bank transfer, 0.8% with other
methods such as cheque or postal order. 97% of my SEPA buyers pay with paypal,
just 3% with IBAN/SEPA.
I for one would not want to write off such a large proportion of my customers.
But I feel if you wish to, you should be allowed to, not by choosing who you
can accept paypal from, but by choosing simply to not accept paypal at all.
You either want the cake or you dont, there is little point in picking out the
jam and cream in the middle and just eating the sponge because the jam and cream
contain afew extra calories.
What I still cannot understand is why accepting paypal from outside the EU with
all its fees is good enough for you, but within the EU it isnt?
|
I have also thought of not accepting PayPal within the EU. If it will make buyers
choose IBAN instead, fees are avoided and everyone wins. As far as I know many
Dutch sellers already don't allow PayPal for domestic transactions and that
makes total sense. If some wish to scale that up to EU level, I don't see
any reason why they shouldn't be able to do that.
Either way, maybe you're just posting out of curiosity, then this discussion
makes sense of course. But ultimately, it is not necessary for you to understand
the reason in order to be OK with it (or even support it). If I want to eat ice-cream
only on mondays, I can do so even though the reasons don't make sense to
other people. The way I see it, this is a suggestion that increases Bricklink
functionality, and it is clear that some people want to use it, so let's
do it.
Random goof: "5.4 PayPal and your customers. In representations or in public
communications to your customers, you shall not mischaracterise or disparage
PayPal as a payment method." So, if you want a seller's PayPal account to
be terminated, ask them to confirm a negative aspect on PayPal - either answer
will be a breach of the agreement
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 17, 2011 14:47 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, elias3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
YES YES YES
It should be:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By:"
2. "Within The EURO-zone I Accept Payment By:"
3. "Internationally I Accept Payment By:"
|
Dwolla was added within one day as payment method.
Perhaps we'll get this added also that fast.
| |
stefaan
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | polarbomber | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 15:00 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| my bank wanted to charge me £25 fee for accepting a £4 iban from germany , i
will stick with fee pal for now
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Nov 11, 2011 17:42 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, polarbomber writes:
| | my bank wanted to charge me £25 fee for accepting a £4 iban from germany , i
will stick with fee pal for now
|
Wrong bank...
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=568474
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Hunny1 | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 05:23 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
The status is still open.
But I still agree with that suggestion! I don't see any reason to pay PayPal
fee when bank transfer is very easy and fast within EU (SEPA, IBAN). Buyers from
EU choose mostly PayPal but are willing to switch to bank transfer when I ask
them. So it's not a general problem.
Markus
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | zux | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 06:24 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Hunny1 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
The status is still open.
But I still agree with that suggestion! I don't see any reason to pay PayPal
fee when bank transfer is very easy and fast within EU (SEPA, IBAN). Buyers from
EU choose mostly PayPal but are willing to switch to bank transfer when I ask
them. So it's not a general problem.
Markus
|
Paypal allows order process on the spot, while IBAN could take a few days and
is affected by public holidays. This would require just a rough fee of 5%. Usually
it is worth all the money.
Disabling Paypal for EU members will get you less people willing to place an
order. Also Paypal protects buyers. Getting refund for IBAN, in case of any
troubles with a seller (not shipping, not respondint, etc), is a nightmare. Usually
myself, as buyer, IBAN is treated as a higher risk due to that. This will also
cause orders to be processed slower as you need some time (days) before you can
confirm you've received a payment. From buyer point of view, sometimes, it
is essential to get bricks ASAP. This will no longer be possible with IBAN-only
option.
So please go ahead if you don't need buyers money.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 07:23 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Hunny1 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
The status is still open.
But I still agree with that suggestion! I don't see any reason to pay PayPal
fee when bank transfer is very easy and fast within EU (SEPA, IBAN). Buyers from
EU choose mostly PayPal but are willing to switch to bank transfer when I ask
them. So it's not a general problem.
|
What do you mean by EU? There are (currently) nine EU countries that don't
use the Euro and bank transfers are not so easy as for Eurozone countries. So
any such option needs to be clear as to which countries are being referred to
- EU countries or Eurozone countries.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 08:04 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
What do you mean by EU? There are (currently) nine EU countries that don't
use the Euro and bank transfers are not so easy as for Eurozone countries. So
any such option needs to be clear as to which countries are being referred to
- EU countries or Eurozone countries.
|
SEPA (Single Euro Payment Area)?
Which is where SEPA rules¹ apply.
(¹ Mainly, inside SEPA transfers should follow the same rules as a local one.)
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 12:01 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
What do you mean by EU? There are (currently) nine EU countries that don't
use the Euro and bank transfers are not so easy as for Eurozone countries. So
any such option needs to be clear as to which countries are being referred to
- EU countries or Eurozone countries.
|
SEPA (Single Euro Payment Area)?
Which is where SEPA rules¹ apply.
(¹ Mainly, inside SEPA transfers should follow the same rules as a local one.)
|
Yes, that would be fine. When sellers say EU countries must pay via bank transfer,
I often leave the store as UK-EU transfers can be more costly than by PayPal
by the time the rate has been factored in. Especially if I already have EU funds
in PayPal.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Speciale | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 13:02 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
What do you mean by EU? There are (currently) nine EU countries that don't
use the Euro and bank transfers are not so easy as for Eurozone countries. So
any such option needs to be clear as to which countries are being referred to
- EU countries or Eurozone countries.
|
SEPA (Single Euro Payment Area)?
Which is where SEPA rules¹ apply.
(¹ Mainly, inside SEPA transfers should follow the same rules as a local one.)
|
Yes, that would be fine. When sellers say EU countries must pay via bank transfer,
I often leave the store as UK-EU transfers can be more costly than by PayPal
by the time the rate has been factored in. Especially if I already have EU funds
in PayPal.
|
it is verry simple , UK citizens voted for the Brex-it not the EU citizens .
I have recived sepa/bank payments from Denmark , USA , china , Hongkong it take
max 2 days to arive . all buyers told me that the fee is a lot lower than the
paypal fee . if a buyer don`t will buy from a EU store who don`t like to sell
with paypal payment move on to an other shop , there are a lot other stores .
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 13:26 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | | | | | SEPA (Single Euro Payment Area)?
Which is where SEPA rules¹ apply.
(¹ Mainly, inside SEPA transfers should follow the same rules as a local one.)
|
Yes, that would be fine. When sellers say EU countries must pay via bank transfer,
I often leave the store as UK-EU transfers can be more costly than by PayPal
by the time the rate has been factored in. Especially if I already have EU funds
in PayPal.
|
it is verry simple , UK citizens voted for the Brex-it not the EU citizens .
I have recived sepa/bank payments from Denmark , USA , china , Hongkong it take
max 2 days to arive . all buyers told me that the fee is a lot lower than the
paypal fee . if a buyer don`t will buy from a EU store who don`t like to sell
with paypal payment move on to an other shop , there are a lot other stores .
|
This has nothing to do with Brexit. The UK was never part of the Eurozone, it
never adopted the Euro. We are currently still part of the EU. If a seller says
that paypal is not allowed for buyers from EU countries, then it applies to me
and other UK buyers, and buyers from Denmark, Sweden, etc, who are also not part
of the Eurozone but are in the EU.
But yes, it is simple to move on to another store (after least favouriting the
ones that will only take bank transfer). Of course, once we leave the EU, those
stores will still be on my least favourites list and unlikely to come off even
if I can then use PayPal with them again.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 13:06 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
What do you mean by EU? There are (currently) nine EU countries that don't
use the Euro and bank transfers are not so easy as for Eurozone countries. So
any such option needs to be clear as to which countries are being referred to
- EU countries or Eurozone countries.
|
SEPA (Single Euro Payment Area)?
Which is where SEPA rules¹ apply.
(¹ Mainly, inside SEPA transfers should follow the same rules as a local one.)
|
Yes, that would be fine. When sellers say EU countries must pay via bank transfer,
I often leave the store as UK-EU transfers can be more costly than by PayPal
by the time the rate has been factored in. Especially if I already have EU funds
in PayPal.
|
Er, you know UK is part of SEPA, don’t you?
Your problem is with the “Euro Payment” part.
Region/area/list of countries isn’t the only criterion. Currency is important
too but BL doesn’t seem to take that into account (I’ve never seen a store filtering
that way).
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 13:29 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
What do you mean by EU? There are (currently) nine EU countries that don't
use the Euro and bank transfers are not so easy as for Eurozone countries. So
any such option needs to be clear as to which countries are being referred to
- EU countries or Eurozone countries.
|
SEPA (Single Euro Payment Area)?
Which is where SEPA rules¹ apply.
(¹ Mainly, inside SEPA transfers should follow the same rules as a local one.)
|
Yes, that would be fine. When sellers say EU countries must pay via bank transfer,
I often leave the store as UK-EU transfers can be more costly than by PayPal
by the time the rate has been factored in. Especially if I already have EU funds
in PayPal.
|
Er, you know UK is part of SEPA, don’t you?
Your problem is with the “Euro Payment” part.
Region/area/list of countries isn’t the only criterion. Currency is important
too but BL doesn’t seem to take that into account (I’ve never seen a store filtering
that way).
|
I do. When I replied, I must have read my own Eurozone comment and confused it
with the reply.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 15:16 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | Yes, that would be fine. When sellers say EU countries must pay via bank transfer,
I often leave the store as UK-EU transfers can be more costly than by PayPal
by the time the rate has been factored in. Especially if I already have EU funds
in PayPal.
|
Heh. I hadn't ever thought of that, but it does sound inconvenient to have
a Paypal account that's flush with Euros if you can't find anyone in
the EU who accepts Paypal or anyone outside the EU who accepts Euros.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 15:12 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Long story short after all this SEPA, IBAN, Euro zone, Europe etc discussion:
Simply allow sellers to set up zones for payment methods the same way they set
up zones for shipping methods
No need for Bricklink to keep up with politics that way, no dilemmas that way,
and who knows the same suggestion may also benefit American or other sellers
for some other reason with some other payment method.
In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | The BL accepted payment method settings has two options:
1. "Within My Country I Accept Payment By"
2. "Internationally I Accept Payment By"
Please add the possibility to exclude Paypal for EU as accepted method.
Perhaps with the methods "Paypal (EU)" and "Paypal (Worldwide)".
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 15:44 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Long story short after all this SEPA, IBAN, Euro zone, Europe etc discussion:
Simply allow sellers to set up zones for payment methods the same way they set
up zones for shipping methods […]
|
As already said, it’s not a zone problem, it’s a currency problem.
If you (as a seller) make a list of EUR using countries, you’ll block UK (for
instance) buyers with a bank account in Euro who wouldn’t have any problem with
SEPA bank transfers.
On the other hand, if you make a list of SEPA countries (so including UK), you’ll
bother buyers (like yorbrick) who can’t or don’t want to make bank transfers
in EUR.
What you want is a “buyer can/wish to pay in EUR inside SEPA” which is different
from “buyer is in a SEPA country.”
Anyway I don’t very much like the “I want to block buyers who could pay the way
I want but won’t” attitude, I’d rather see a “I give perks to buyers who pay
the way I prefer.” But I guess it’s because I’m a buyer
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2018 19:18 | | Subject: | Re: Add option to Exclude Paypal for EU | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | Anyway I don’t very much like the “I want to block buyers who could pay the way
I want but won’t” attitude, I’d rather see a “I give perks to buyers who pay
the way I prefer.” But I guess it’s because I’m a buyer
|
I don't really have to worry about that, since anyone who wants US buyers
pretty much has to offer Paypal. But what I miss now is the feature that I very
briefly was able to enjoy, where I could search by stores that accepted _regular_
Paypal. The last time I tried to use that, all I could select was "Instant Checkout",
which just compounds the problem of Onsite Paypal. I don't load Bricklink
on the computer I use to do financial stuff, and I don't do financial stuff
on the various devices I use to shop Bricklink. Kinda hard to make either of
those work under those circumstances.
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Netherlands, Gelderland
United Kingdom, England
USA, New York
Belgium
Norway, Oslo
Sweden, Uppsala
Germany, Brandenburg
Ireland, Laois
Canada, Ontario
United Kingdom, Northern Ireland
Lithuania, Vilnius
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine