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| | | Author: | TorontoLego  | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 11:04 | | Subject: | Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 156 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| As we have seen recently, silly things are causing major Skewing in the Price
Guide
They could be:
a) Fraudulent sales that are never actually completed
b) Silly sales that are intended to mess with the PG
c) Unintentional mistakes -- I have bought a few 2x2 bricks in colours that
did not exist -- and still don't because the seller had the wrong colour (or
were selling clones unintentionally) and now it looks like they do exist because
a sale has occurred for them.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if there were some way to establish
sellers as legitimate (dealt with in other discussions)
I suggest that a "Problem with Historical Sale" on the Problem page -- items
that are submitted could be handled by a volunteer (PGmin???) or Admin. Our
PG is a valuable tool to all of us and a very valuable asset for BL as a whole.
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| | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 11:16 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | As we have seen recently, silly things are causing major Skewing in the Price
Guide
They could be:
a) Fraudulent sales that are never actually completed
b) Silly sales that are intended to mess with the PG
c) Unintentional mistakes -- I have bought a few 2x2 bricks in colours that
did not exist -- and still don't because the seller had the wrong colour (or
were selling clones unintentionally) and now it looks like they do exist because
a sale has occurred for them.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if there were some way to establish
sellers as legitimate (dealt with in other discussions)
I suggest that a "Problem with Historical Sale" on the Problem page -- items
that are submitted could be handled by a volunteer (PGmin???) or Admin. Our
PG is a valuable tool to all of us and a very valuable asset for BL as a whole.
|
Voted yes but IMO this should be an Admin function as only Admin has details
of the transactions that took place (or didn't).
There are extreme cases, as today, where the seller has been suspended in which
case I think Admin could (should?) simply remove the transactions to maintain
the ingegrity of the database/price guide.
I'm not sure it needs to be any more systemic than that otherwise we may get
the opposite probelm of sellers questionning every low value sale because they
don't like its' impact on the PG. This would hint of trying to "hold up" the
PG which would not be good for BL either.
I'd be happy for Admin to make the call on these and delete the data or not but
I would not like to see this done by a volunteer sub-Admin role.
Robert
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| | | | | | | Author: | TorontoLego | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 11:30 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | As we have seen recently, silly things are causing major Skewing in the Price
Guide
They could be:
a) Fraudulent sales that are never actually completed
b) Silly sales that are intended to mess with the PG
c) Unintentional mistakes -- I have bought a few 2x2 bricks in colours that
did not exist -- and still don't because the seller had the wrong colour (or
were selling clones unintentionally) and now it looks like they do exist because
a sale has occurred for them.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if there were some way to establish
sellers as legitimate (dealt with in other discussions)
I suggest that a "Problem with Historical Sale" on the Problem page -- items
that are submitted could be handled by a volunteer (PGmin???) or Admin. Our
PG is a valuable tool to all of us and a very valuable asset for BL as a whole.
|
Voted yes but IMO this should be an Admin function as only Admin has details
of the transactions that took place (or didn't).
There are extreme cases, as today, where the seller has been suspended in which
case I think Admin could (should?) simply remove the transactions to maintain
the ingegrity of the database/price guide.
I'm not sure it needs to be any more systemic than that otherwise we may get
the opposite probelm of sellers questionning every low value sale because they
don't like its' impact on the PG. This would hint of trying to "hold up" the
PG which would not be good for BL either.
|
The suggestion is not intended to be a method to remove Actual sales of items
that were correctly listed -- any items that is bought and sold in good faith,
even if the price was way out of the norm should remain in the PG. Only items
that are either not real -- or incorrect as listed should be removed.
| |
I'd be happy for Admin to make the call on these and delete the data or not but
I would not like to see this done by a volunteer sub-Admin role.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 11:43 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | As we have seen recently, silly things are causing major Skewing in the Price
Guide
They could be:
a) Fraudulent sales that are never actually completed
b) Silly sales that are intended to mess with the PG
c) Unintentional mistakes -- I have bought a few 2x2 bricks in colours that
did not exist -- and still don't because the seller had the wrong colour (or
were selling clones unintentionally) and now it looks like they do exist because
a sale has occurred for them.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if there were some way to establish
sellers as legitimate (dealt with in other discussions)
I suggest that a "Problem with Historical Sale" on the Problem page -- items
that are submitted could be handled by a volunteer (PGmin???) or Admin. Our
PG is a valuable tool to all of us and a very valuable asset for BL as a whole.
|
Voted yes but IMO this should be an Admin function as only Admin has details
of the transactions that took place (or didn't).
There are extreme cases, as today, where the seller has been suspended in which
case I think Admin could (should?) simply remove the transactions to maintain
the ingegrity of the database/price guide.
I'm not sure it needs to be any more systemic than that otherwise we may get
the opposite probelm of sellers questionning every low value sale because they
don't like its' impact on the PG. This would hint of trying to "hold up" the
PG which would not be good for BL either.
|
The suggestion is not intended to be a method to remove Actual sales of items
that were correctly listed -- any items that is bought and sold in good faith,
even if the price was way out of the norm should remain in the PG. Only items
that are either not real -- or incorrect as listed should be removed.
|
Sure, I understood that. Agreed.
The last para of my post was just to highlight that these things need positioning
very carefully so they don't give the wrong impression to the casual observer.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TorontoLego | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 11:57 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | As we have seen recently, silly things are causing major Skewing in the Price
Guide
They could be:
a) Fraudulent sales that are never actually completed
b) Silly sales that are intended to mess with the PG
c) Unintentional mistakes -- I have bought a few 2x2 bricks in colours that
did not exist -- and still don't because the seller had the wrong colour (or
were selling clones unintentionally) and now it looks like they do exist because
a sale has occurred for them.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if there were some way to establish
sellers as legitimate (dealt with in other discussions)
I suggest that a "Problem with Historical Sale" on the Problem page -- items
that are submitted could be handled by a volunteer (PGmin???) or Admin. Our
PG is a valuable tool to all of us and a very valuable asset for BL as a whole.
|
Voted yes but IMO this should be an Admin function as only Admin has details
of the transactions that took place (or didn't).
There are extreme cases, as today, where the seller has been suspended in which
case I think Admin could (should?) simply remove the transactions to maintain
the ingegrity of the database/price guide.
I'm not sure it needs to be any more systemic than that otherwise we may get
the opposite probelm of sellers questionning every low value sale because they
don't like its' impact on the PG. This would hint of trying to "hold up" the
PG which would not be good for BL either.
|
The suggestion is not intended to be a method to remove Actual sales of items
that were correctly listed -- any items that is bought and sold in good faith,
even if the price was way out of the norm should remain in the PG. Only items
that are either not real -- or incorrect as listed should be removed.
|
Sure, I understood that. Agreed.
The last para of my post was just to highlight that these things need positioning
very carefully so they don't give the wrong impression to the casual observer.
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Absolutely, that is very important -- I'm a big fan of Transparency.
Especially Trans-Orange 2x2 bricks 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | akunthita | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 12:49 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| LOL! 
| | Absolutely, that is very important -- I'm a big fan of Transparency.
Especially Trans-Orange 2x2 bricks
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb196858 | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 12:53 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | snip
Absolutely, that is very important -- I'm a big fan of Transparency.
Especially Trans-Orange 2x2 bricks
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hmmmm... rubbing it in, eh?
-the other Marc
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | akunthita | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 12:58 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Yeah, can you believe that! But he will soon burn with envy when he sees our
latest 2x2s!
In Suggestions, aiangoodchild writes:
| | | | snip
Absolutely, that is very important -- I'm a big fan of Transparency.
Especially Trans-Orange 2x2 bricks
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hmmmm... rubbing it in, eh?
-the other Marc
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| | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 18:53 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I thought about messing with it in the other direction. (Not seriously, but the
thought did cross my mind.)
If I set up a seller account, and a buyer account (as a different user, or get
a friend to work with me), then I could list things artificially low, and immediately
buy them (before anyone else sees them) with my other user (I mean have my friend
or family member buy them using their account).
This way I can push averages way down.
As a buyer this is in my best interest.
If I wanted it all to look real, I would have to gradually push down, not via
a few ridiculously low priced sales.
But there are bricklink fees involved, so this would not be free.
If I were a seller, it would be in my best interest to push prices up.
How hard is the data, for the way off prices, to ignore?
Look at it, see it for what it is, and take that into consideration.
What would be harder to ignore, is if someone decided to manipulate prices with
gradual transactions, as opposed to a few way off transactions.
This has me wondering, if a sale is cancelled, does it still show up in the statistics?
If not, then one can gradually manipulate prices, without it costing them anything
except time (and a good partner, or willingness to break the rules.)
In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | As we have seen recently, silly things are causing major Skewing in the Price
Guide
They could be:
a) Fraudulent sales that are never actually completed
b) Silly sales that are intended to mess with the PG
c) Unintentional mistakes -- I have bought a few 2x2 bricks in colours that
did not exist -- and still don't because the seller had the wrong colour (or
were selling clones unintentionally) and now it looks like they do exist because
a sale has occurred for them.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if there were some way to establish
sellers as legitimate (dealt with in other discussions)
I suggest that a "Problem with Historical Sale" on the Problem page -- items
that are submitted could be handled by a volunteer (PGmin???) or Admin. Our
PG is a valuable tool to all of us and a very valuable asset for BL as a whole.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | starbeanie | | Posted: | Feb 28, 2011 21:42 | | Subject: | Re: Establish a process to remove from PG | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Canceled sales don't show up. Look at http://www.bricklink.com/catalogPG.asp?S=10185-1
which earlier had a huge number of cheap sales showing. Admin canceled and they
are gone now.
Bret
In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | I thought about messing with it in the other direction. (Not seriously, but the
thought did cross my mind.)
If I set up a seller account, and a buyer account (as a different user, or get
a friend to work with me), then I could list things artificially low, and immediately
buy them (before anyone else sees them) with my other user (I mean have my friend
or family member buy them using their account).
This way I can push averages way down.
As a buyer this is in my best interest.
If I wanted it all to look real, I would have to gradually push down, not via
a few ridiculously low priced sales.
But there are bricklink fees involved, so this would not be free.
If I were a seller, it would be in my best interest to push prices up.
How hard is the data, for the way off prices, to ignore?
Look at it, see it for what it is, and take that into consideration.
What would be harder to ignore, is if someone decided to manipulate prices with
gradual transactions, as opposed to a few way off transactions.
This has me wondering, if a sale is cancelled, does it still show up in the statistics?
If not, then one can gradually manipulate prices, without it costing them anything
except time (and a good partner, or willingness to break the rules.)
In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | As we have seen recently, silly things are causing major Skewing in the Price
Guide
They could be:
a) Fraudulent sales that are never actually completed
b) Silly sales that are intended to mess with the PG
c) Unintentional mistakes -- I have bought a few 2x2 bricks in colours that
did not exist -- and still don't because the seller had the wrong colour (or
were selling clones unintentionally) and now it looks like they do exist because
a sale has occurred for them.
Of course a lot of this could be avoided if there were some way to establish
sellers as legitimate (dealt with in other discussions)
I suggest that a "Problem with Historical Sale" on the Problem page -- items
that are submitted could be handled by a volunteer (PGmin???) or Admin. Our
PG is a valuable tool to all of us and a very valuable asset for BL as a whole.
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Canada, Ontario
United Kingdom, England
USA, Florida
