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| | | Author: | bje  | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 16:58 | | Subject: | Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 279 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
|
| This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!!  Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price  ?
Thanks
Jean
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| | | | | Author: | bb35566 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 17:04 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | so youre next step is to ask for listing "packing fee" etc? |
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| | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 17:21 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 94 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 18:00 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 94 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
|
What will be next?
| | Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!! Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
|
Open more windows/tabs after the search at the same time and then compare stores.
| | On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
|
Make a note on member or least favorite those stores.
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Jan 13, 2011 13:02 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | TravisW | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 19:07 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hi, Jean,
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
|
As a sometimes-buyer I feel your pain, but just about all of this is at least
impractical.
For one, most stores accept multiple payment options, and the effective price
of the parts varies with option. Besides, how do you amortize fixed (rather
than percentage fees) across parts when it's unknown how much the buyer is going
to buy?
(This is an orthogonal concern, but it's worth noting here that the PayPal TOS
prohibits charging buyers a fee to use PayPal. You could point this out to the
seller, and suggest he incorporate his PayPal fee into his prices.)
| | Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!! Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
|
A little inconvenient, but all this over 4% on items at $1/ea.?
| | On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
|
See above about amortizing, etc.
| | If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
|
I think you're construing that term too broadly -- when I read this, I assume
that the seller just means he's not going to charge me more for shipping than
he pays for it. Would you object to a store that "only charges actual shipping
costs" separately charging for the costs of packaging?
As for competition, yes, I start with the store with the lowest price, but I
often look through the first few listings, especially if the first store has
lots of extra charges. This is exactly what you said you did, and I've always
assumed this is how most people shop. Practically, this isn't much of a problem.
In your example, even the mildly savvy buyer who just looks at the first two
listings will, all other things being equal, buy the $101 set and so in your
view the "integrity" of the price guide will be preserved. Even if a lazy/ignorant
buyer pays $100 (really $104) for the set from the other seller, it's hard to
imagine that this difference of a few percent makes the price guide less reliable
or useful. Even if this l./i. scenario occurs half the time, is anyone going
to notice whether the average price for this set is $101 or $102.5? Does it
matter? Isn't this difference smaller than random noise in pricing?
| | Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
|
It depends on the product. If there are special taxes, delivery fees, etc. (think
cars and airline tickets, or furniture, respectively.), I expect the actual damage
to my pocketbook to be a little larger.
| | Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
|
See above, but notice that if a store offers more than one payment option, and
those options incur different fees, the simplest thing the store can do* is list
the base prices, and state upfront (i.e., in the store terms) what the various
fees are by payment method. Yes, it's (very mildly) inconvenient for buyers
who one to use an payment method that incurs a fee, but it's unfair to call this
"back-door."
(*Okay, it might be simpler to incorporate this directly into the price and do
away with the fees altogether, but this leads to adverse selection, punishes
buyers who aren't using the payment methods incurring fees, etc. This suggestion
has been thoroughly hashed here before.)
| | I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
|
(etc.)
Travis
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Slartibartfast | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 19:44 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TravisW writes:
| | Hi, Jean,
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
|
As a sometimes-buyer I feel your pain, but just about all of this is at least
impractical.
For one, most stores accept multiple payment options, and the effective price
of the parts varies with option. Besides, how do you amortize fixed (rather
than percentage fees) across parts when it's unknown how much the buyer is going
to buy?
(This is an orthogonal concern, but it's worth noting here that
|
in some countries
| | the PayPal TOS prohibits charging buyers a fee to use PayPal. You could point this out to the
seller, and suggest he incorporate his PayPal fee into his prices.)
| | Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!! Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
|
A little inconvenient, but all this over 4% on items at $1/ea.?
| | On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
|
See above about amortizing, etc.
| | If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
|
I think you're construing that term too broadly -- when I read this, I assume
that the seller just means he's not going to charge me more for shipping than
he pays for it. Would you object to a store that "only charges actual shipping
costs" separately charging for the costs of packaging?
As for competition, yes, I start with the store with the lowest price, but I
often look through the first few listings, especially if the first store has
lots of extra charges. This is exactly what you said you did, and I've always
assumed this is how most people shop. Practically, this isn't much of a problem.
In your example, even the mildly savvy buyer who just looks at the first two
listings will, all other things being equal, buy the $101 set and so in your
view the "integrity" of the price guide will be preserved. Even if a lazy/ignorant
buyer pays $100 (really $104) for the set from the other seller, it's hard to
imagine that this difference of a few percent makes the price guide less reliable
or useful. Even if this l./i. scenario occurs half the time, is anyone going
to notice whether the average price for this set is $101 or $102.5? Does it
matter? Isn't this difference smaller than random noise in pricing?
| | Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
|
It depends on the product. If there are special taxes, delivery fees, etc. (think
cars and airline tickets, or furniture, respectively.), I expect the actual damage
to my pocketbook to be a little larger.
| | Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
|
See above, but notice that if a store offers more than one payment option, and
those options incur different fees, the simplest thing the store can do* is list
the base prices, and state upfront (i.e., in the store terms) what the various
fees are by payment method. Yes, it's (very mildly) inconvenient for buyers
who one to use an payment method that incurs a fee, but it's unfair to call this
"back-door."
(*Okay, it might be simpler to incorporate this directly into the price and do
away with the fees altogether, but this leads to adverse selection, punishes
buyers who aren't using the payment methods incurring fees, etc. This suggestion
has been thoroughly hashed here before.)
| | I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
|
(etc.)
Travis
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | garyjh22 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 19:54 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | (This is an orthogonal concern, but it's worth noting here that the PayPal TOS
prohibits charging buyers a fee to use PayPal. You could point this out to the
seller, and suggest he incorporate his PayPal fee into his prices.)
|
This is a bit off topic. But this whole thing about not being able to charge
for Paypal fees is very very "unAmerican". The last I checked, this was "supposed"
to be a "free" country. If Paypal is charging us to use their service, why can
we not charge someone to help pay for that fee? Its like "oh oh, dont say anything
about Paypal" "shhhh, mums the word" "you dont want to get them angry". Its feels
a bit fascist or communistic.
Maybe Im missing something on the subject. just had to vent that some.
Sorry
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | mhn1957 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:03 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes and I snipped:
| | But this whole thing about not being able to charge
for Paypal fees is very very "unAmerican". The last I checked, this was "supposed"
to be a "free" country. If Paypal is charging us to use their service, why can
we not charge someone to help pay for that fee?
Maybe Im missing something on the subject. just had to vent that some.
|
Here is the deal. You go to buy groceries and they say, "that's 6% tax". Oh,
you want to use a credit card? That's an additional 3%. Would you use the card?
Someone has to pay the company for the service. The grocer gladly pays the 3%,
because it increases his trade, and he makes it up overall. Paypal is built on
that credit card model. Gas stations get around it by offering "cash discounts".
Paypal wants those who are footing the bill to not have to pay an additional
charge. That way more people will use the service. You can offer a rebate if
you want for "cash" customers.
Mark (MHN1957)
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:10 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mhn1957 writes:
| | In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes and I snipped:
| | But this whole thing about not being able to charge
for Paypal fees is very very "unAmerican". The last I checked, this was "supposed"
to be a "free" country. If Paypal is charging us to use their service, why can
we not charge someone to help pay for that fee?
Maybe Im missing something on the subject. just had to vent that some.
|
Here is the deal. You go to buy groceries and they say, "that's 6% tax". Oh,
you want to use a credit card? That's an additional 3%. Would you use the card?
Someone has to pay the company for the service. The grocer gladly pays the 3%,
because it increases his trade, and he makes it up overall. Paypal is built on
that credit card model. Gas stations get around it by offering "cash discounts".
Paypal wants those who are footing the bill to not have to pay an additional
charge. That way more people will use the service. You can offer a rebate if
you want for "cash" customers.
Mark (MHN1957)
|
Yep. That is the way it is. And you can thank the credit card lobbyists and politicians
for enacting laws preventing sellers from passing on this added cost to those
who cause it. The end result is that this cost is built into the price for all
buyers, making lower-income cash-paying buyers subsidize the costs incurred by
higher-income buyers who qualify for and use credit cards. Very un-American indeed.
But that's the way things are.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | dwarunek | | Posted: | Jan 13, 2011 12:44 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mhn1957 writes:
| | In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes and I snipped:
| | But this whole thing about not being able to charge
for Paypal fees is very very "unAmerican". The last I checked, this was "supposed"
to be a "free" country. If Paypal is charging us to use their service, why can
we not charge someone to help pay for that fee?
Maybe Im missing something on the subject. just had to vent that some.
|
Here is the deal. You go to buy groceries and they say, "that's 6% tax". Oh,
you want to use a credit card? That's an additional 3%. Would you use the card?
Someone has to pay the company for the service. The grocer gladly pays the 3%,
because it increases his trade, and he makes it up overall. Paypal is built on
that credit card model. Gas stations get around it by offering "cash discounts".
Paypal wants those who are footing the bill to not have to pay an additional
charge. That way more people will use the service. You can offer a rebate if
you want for "cash" customers.
Mark (MHN1957)
|
Yep. That is the way it is. And you can thank the credit card lobbyists and politicians
for enacting laws preventing sellers from passing on this added cost to those
who cause it. The end result is that this cost is built into the price for all
buyers, making lower-income cash-paying buyers subsidize the costs incurred by
higher-income buyers who qualify for and use credit cards. Very un-American indeed.
But that's the way things are.
Thor
|
Or, the higher-income cash-paying buyers subsidize costs incurred by the fraudulent
use of credit cards/Checks used by lower-income buyers.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | garyjh22 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:14 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mhn1957 writes:
| | In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes and I snipped:
| | But this whole thing about not being able to charge
for Paypal fees is very very "unAmerican". The last I checked, this was "supposed"
to be a "free" country. If Paypal is charging us to use their service, why can
we not charge someone to help pay for that fee?
Maybe Im missing something on the subject. just had to vent that some.
|
Here is the deal. You go to buy groceries and they say, "that's 6% tax". Oh,
you want to use a credit card? That's an additional 3%. Would you use the card?
Someone has to pay the company for the service. The grocer gladly pays the 3%,
because it increases his trade, and he makes it up overall. Paypal is built on
that credit card model. Gas stations get around it by offering "cash discounts".
Paypal wants those who are footing the bill to not have to pay an additional
charge. That way more people will use the service. You can offer a rebate if
you want for "cash" customers.
Mark (MHN1957)
|
Ok, I can kinda see that point. But what Paypal wants and what they should get
is 2 different things. Ive tryed to use my credit card at a lot of places and
seen terms saying "there will be a 5% charge for paying by credit card". And
the kicker is, most of them places are government offices.
I do offer a cash 3% discount for payments other than Paypal. But what bugs me
is supposedly, I cant say "the 3% discount is because I dont have to pay a Paypal
fee"! Apparently that is illegal?
Dont get me wrong, Im not trying to make a big deal about this. It doesnt matter
too much either way. I just thought it was a bit funny because this is about
the 3rd time Ive seen this mentioned. I hope Big Brother is not watching. Heh
heh 
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:27 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | I do offer a cash 3% discount for payments other than Paypal. But what bugs me
is supposedly, I cant say "the 3% discount is because I dont have to pay a Paypal
fee"! Apparently that is illegal?
|
It's not illegal, it's just against Paypal's User Agreement.
I believe that your store terms violate your agreement with Paypal:
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other
fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in
connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does
not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge
for non-PayPal transactions.
| | Dont get me wrong, Im not trying to make a big deal about this. It doesnt matter
too much either way. I just thought it was a bit funny because this is about
the 3rd time Ive seen this mentioned. I hope Big Brother is not watching. Heh
heh
|
It doesn't take Big Brother.
Part of the issue being discussed in all of the threads today about custom forms
stems from the frustration felt by those who follow the rules, against those
who do not (and gain an unfair advantage).
Everything else being equal, you put yourself in a position of being able to
list your items at a lower price than a seller who does not pass on Paypal fees.
(Or, you can have a lower store minimum, etc.) Do you feel that this advantage
that you give yourself is fair to the sellers who correctly comply with Paypal's
User Agreement?
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:32 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | garyjh22 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:40 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | I do offer a cash 3% discount for payments other than Paypal. But what bugs me
is supposedly, I cant say "the 3% discount is because I dont have to pay a Paypal
fee"! Apparently that is illegal?
|
It's not illegal, it's just against Paypal's User Agreement.
I believe that your store terms violate your agreement with Paypal:
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other
fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in
connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does
not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge
for non-PayPal transactions.
| | Dont get me wrong, Im not trying to make a big deal about this. It doesnt matter
too much either way. I just thought it was a bit funny because this is about
the 3rd time Ive seen this mentioned. I hope Big Brother is not watching. Heh
heh
|
It doesn't take Big Brother.
Part of the issue being discussed in all of the threads today about custom forms
stems from the frustration felt by those who follow the rules, against those
who do not (and gain an unfair advantage).
Everything else being equal, you put yourself in a position of being able to
list your items at a lower price than a seller who does not pass on Paypal fees.
(Or, you can have a lower store minimum, etc.) Do you feel that this advantage
that you give yourself is fair to the sellers who correctly comply with Paypal's
User Agreement?
--
Marc.
|
I think you misunderstand what I meant. I do not charge any extra for Paypal
fees. But I would like to give a discount if someone paid in another form. Is
that not what you had suggested earlier?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:49 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | I believe that your store terms violate your agreement with Paypal:
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other
fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in
connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does
not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge
for non-PayPal transactions.
|
I think you misunderstand what I meant. I do not charge any extra for Paypal
fees.
|
According to your terms, you do: There is no minimum orders. But for orders
under $3.00 (and paying by PAYPAL, there will be a .30 charge because of PAYPALS
minimum fee.
| | But I would like to give a discount if someone paid in another form. Is
that not what you had suggested earlier?
|
That wasn't me, but I would agree that doing so would not violate Paypal's User
Agreement.
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | garyjh22 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 21:00 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | I believe that your store terms violate your agreement with Paypal:
4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other
fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in
connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does
not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge
for non-PayPal transactions.
|
I think you misunderstand what I meant. I do not charge any extra for Paypal
fees.
|
According to your terms, you do: There is no minimum orders. But for orders
under $3.00 (and paying by PAYPAL, there will be a .30 charge because of PAYPALS
minimum fee.
| | But I would like to give a discount if someone paid in another form. Is
that not what you had suggested earlier?
|
That wasn't me, but I would agree that doing so would not violate Paypal's User
Agreement.
--
Marc.
|
Right! I forgot about that .30 Fee. The reason for that is, if someone ordered
something for .50, I would end up losing money!
Ill take out the word "Paypal". It wont change anything, but I dont want to get
them all irate.
Thanks
Gary
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:22 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mhn1957 writes:
| | Gas stations get around it by offering "cash discounts".
|
There are a few gas stations (in south Georgia) that play that card the other
way. They advertise a price on the big sign out front, then have a sticker on
the pump that basically says (paraphrased) "CASH PRICE, CARDS PAY A SURCHARGE".
I avoid those stations.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | renhoffman | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:39 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | In Suggestions, mhn1957 writes:
| | Gas stations get around it by offering "cash discounts".
|
There are a few gas stations (in south Georgia) that play that card the other
way. They advertise a price on the big sign out front, then have a sticker on
the pump that basically says (paraphrased) "CASH PRICE, CARDS PAY A SURCHARGE".
I avoid those stations.
|
I agree, if the advertised price is the cash price. On the other hand, if the
advertised price was the credit price, and you could get 2% off for cash, would
that be different? In my opinion, it is different.
Darren
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:44 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | renhoffman | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 21:03 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | | | | | There are a few gas stations (in south Georgia) that play that card the other
way. They advertise a price on the big sign out front, then have a sticker on
the pump that basically says (paraphrased) "CASH PRICE, CARDS PAY A SURCHARGE".
I avoid those stations.
|
I agree, if the advertised price is the cash price. On the other hand, if the
advertised price was the credit price, and you could get 2% off for cash, would
that be different? In my opinion, it is different.
Darren
|
Well, to me there is no difference. It is just semantics IMO. The end result
or effect is the exact same.
Thor
|
In terms of the price guide here, there is a difference. Seller A lists a part
for $1 each, but charges 4% Paypal fee, actual price is $1.04 credit, $1 for
cash, seller B lists the same part for $1, with a 2% discount for cash, actual
price is $1 credit, less than $1 for cash...both sellers get the same spot in
the price guide, yet seller B is actually selling said part for less than seller
A.
Darren
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | renhoffman | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 21:22 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, renhoffman writes:
| | | | | | | | There are a few gas stations (in south Georgia) that play that card the other
way. They advertise a price on the big sign out front, then have a sticker on
the pump that basically says (paraphrased) "CASH PRICE, CARDS PAY A SURCHARGE".
I avoid those stations.
|
I agree, if the advertised price is the cash price. On the other hand, if the
advertised price was the credit price, and you could get 2% off for cash, would
that be different? In my opinion, it is different.
Darren
|
Well, to me there is no difference. It is just semantics IMO. The end result
or effect is the exact same.
Thor
|
In terms of the price guide here, there is a difference. Seller A lists a part
for $1 each, but charges 4% Paypal fee, actual price is $1.04 credit, $1 for
cash, seller B lists the same part for $1, with a 2% discount for cash, actual
price is $1 credit, less than $1 for cash...both sellers get the same spot in
the price guide, yet seller B is actually selling said part for less than seller
A.
Darren
|
I should have added that there are are no "hidden" fees in the case of seller
B, no surprises . No matter what, you still pay no more than the listed price.
Darren
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:14 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | | | (This is an orthogonal concern, but it's worth noting here that the PayPal TOS
prohibits charging buyers a fee to use PayPal. You could point this out to the
seller, and suggest he incorporate his PayPal fee into his prices.)
|
This is a bit off topic. But this whole thing about not being able to charge
for Paypal fees is very very "unAmerican". The last I checked, this was "supposed"
to be a "free" country.
|
That's why Paypal is free to create terms that state that you cannot charge fees
to your buyers which make Paypal a less attractive option for payment, and it's
also why you are free to not accept Paypal as a payment type.
That's pretty much the free market at work. If you really want to make it so
that Paypal is forbidden from creating such clauses in their Terms of Service,
you can lobby the law-makers in your country to introduce that type of limitation
on businesses.
--
Marc.
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | garyjh22 | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:26 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Ok,
So, is there a payment method for overseas payment types that does not cost an
arm and a leg? Im wondering for international orders.
Thanks Gary
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:35 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | Ok,
So, is there a payment method for overseas payment types that does not cost an
arm and a leg? Im wondering for international orders.
|
There is. Cash.
There may be others.
--
Marc.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Jan 3, 2011 07:40 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | Ok,
So, is there a payment method for overseas payment types that does not cost an
arm and a leg? Im wondering for international orders.
|
There is. Cash.
There may be others.
--
Marc.
|
cash is only cheaper than paypal where 2 countries use the same currency and
even then incurs a cost in posting the currency and a risk that the mailing may
be lost or tampered with.
Ignoring the transaction fee and looking solely at exchange rate, you cannot
exchange money in cash in any bureaux de change as cheaply as you can change
it in paypal.
ultimately for average Jim Joe and Jenny, paypal is effectively the cheapest
method to accept payments from overseas. It costs the buyer nothing and cost
to the seller is comparatively minimal. Many of the alternatives cost either
side something.
Companies with corporate banking may of course get better rates through bank
transfers. As indeed many sellers in the EU get a better deal than paypal as
a result of the IBAN system.
If there are services which can compete with paypal on international exchange
rates/payment fees, there are likely to be other reasons why they havent caught
on.
G
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Jan 3, 2011 09:31 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, garyjh22 writes:
| | Ok,
So, is there a payment method for overseas payment types that does not cost an
arm and a leg? Im wondering for international orders.
|
There is. Cash.
There may be others.
|
cash is only cheaper than paypal where 2 countries use the same currency and
even then incurs a cost in posting the currency and a risk that the mailing may
be lost or tampered with.
Ignoring the transaction fee and looking solely at exchange rate, you cannot
exchange money in cash in any bureaux de change as cheaply as you can change
it in paypal.
|
Maybe it's different where you are, but I don't believe that's the case here.
When I accept US funds through Paypal, they charge me 3.9% plus 30 cents, and
then I lose another 3% when I convert it to CAD to withdraw it, and they charge
me another 50 cents if I'm withdrawing less than $150.
With U.S. cash, I can exchange it at my bank at about a 4% loss compared to intra-day
exchange rate, with no flat fee.
--
Marc.
|
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| | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 19:11 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Jean, I understand and sympathize with your frustration. This has been suggested
before but IIRC it was deemed too difficult and ineffective to implement. There
are almost an infinite variety of fees a creative seller could charge. If BrickLink
requires PayPal fees to be included in the listed price and not separately charged,
the seller will just call them something else. So I don't think it would make
much difference for BrickLink to ban some fees but not others. There was a previous
suggestion or two to ban all fees, but that was overwhelmingly rejected. And
even if BrickLink banned all "fees", sellers would easily find other ways to
get around such a ban by using, for example, creative minimum order and shipping
amounts.
As a buyer, I don't think I can ask or rely upon BrickLink to remove these frustrations
for me. Instead, I just make sure to read a seller's terms first and to least
favorite those sellers whose terms and fee policies I don't like. Your best weapon
against such sellers is to least favorite them and shop elsewhere.
Thor
In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!! Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
Thanks
Jean
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | KildeBricks | | Posted: | Jan 3, 2011 03:31 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | As a buyer, I don't think I can ask or rely upon BrickLink to remove these frustrations
for me. Instead, I just make sure to read a seller's terms first and to least
favorite those sellers whose terms and fee policies I don't like. Your best weapon
against such sellers is to least favorite them and shop elsewhere.
Thor
|
I fully agree!!
Best way to get rid of fees is not buying from shops that have them!
And maybe even inform the shop about it
Just make a small note to the seller:
Hi
I found some parts in your shop I wanted.
But I have choosen not to buy them due to your fee policy.
Change that and I will be back again.
Thanks
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | InanimateReason | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:09 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!! Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
Thanks
Jean
|
As much as I agree with the idea in spirit, all you're really suggesting is that
sellers should not be allowed to charge percentage upcharges on sales. It's a
great idea, but ultimately not practical. Most of these sellers are already violating
Paypal's policy and it doesn't seem to slow them down one bit.
I'd rather see a feature where there is a list of fields to cover commonly charged
fees that lets the buyer see something like:
Paypal surcharge: yes/no
handling fees: yes/no
Lot limits: yes/no
lot fees: yes/no
Rather than ban them, make them searchable so buyers can choose to exclude sellers
who charge fees they don't want to pay.
Personally, I check the splash and terms pages before I waste time filling my
cart and then decide if I want to continue shopping. If they don't state their
fees, I look at feedback to see if there are issues.
It does suck getting pulled into stores with artificially low price guide entries
but at least the currency shenanigans are a thing of the past.
Bill
Inanimate Reason
Home of the Custom Aluminum Liftarms!
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|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:22 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, InanimateReason writes:
| | I'd rather see a feature where there is a list of fields to cover commonly charged
fees that lets the buyer see something like:
Paypal surcharge: yes/no
handling fees: yes/no
Lot limits: yes/no
lot fees: yes/no
Rather than ban them, make them searchable so buyers can choose to exclude sellers
who charge fees they don't want to pay.
|
Unfortunately, it is not that simple. For example, many good sellers have handling
fees, but only on smaller orders and which then phase out to nothing for orders
over a certain amount. How can such a seller answer yes/no in this case? If they
answer yes, they can then be excluded from searches even though they do NOT charge
fees for most of their orders. Ban or discourage fees more and you will get more
sellers adopting or increasing minimum order and/or shipping amounts.
Thor
|
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|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | InanimateReason | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:28 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | InanimateReason | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:30 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, InanimateReason writes:
| | I'd rather see a feature where there is a list of fields to cover commonly charged
fees that lets the buyer see something like:
Paypal surcharge: yes/no
handling fees: yes/no
Lot limits: yes/no
lot fees: yes/no
Rather than ban them, make them searchable so buyers can choose to exclude sellers
who charge fees they don't want to pay.
|
Unfortunately, it is not that simple. For example, many good sellers have handling
fees, but only on smaller orders and which then phase out to nothing for orders
over a certain amount. How can such a seller answer yes/no in this case? If they
answer yes, they can then be excluded from searches even though they do NOT charge
fees for most of their orders. Ban or discourage fees more and you will get more
sellers adopting or increasing minimum order and/or shipping amounts.
Thor
|
I know it's not that simple. I'm just saying it's better than reading through
pages of broken english trying to suss out what, if any, fees to expect.
It could be as simple as adding a comment line for the seller to complete for
each yes so they can state, "handling waived for overs over $xxx" or "lot fees
only charged if avg cost per lot is less than $1."
Bill
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:34 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | InanimateReason | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 21:04 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, InanimateReason writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, InanimateReason writes:
| | I'd rather see a feature where there is a list of fields to cover commonly charged
fees that lets the buyer see something like:
Paypal surcharge: yes/no
handling fees: yes/no
Lot limits: yes/no
lot fees: yes/no
Rather than ban them, make them searchable so buyers can choose to exclude sellers
who charge fees they don't want to pay.
|
Unfortunately, it is not that simple. For example, many good sellers have handling
fees, but only on smaller orders and which then phase out to nothing for orders
over a certain amount. How can such a seller answer yes/no in this case? If they
answer yes, they can then be excluded from searches even though they do NOT charge
fees for most of their orders. Ban or discourage fees more and you will get more
sellers adopting or increasing minimum order and/or shipping amounts.
Thor
|
I know it's not that simple. I'm just saying it's better than reading through
pages of broken english trying to suss out what, if any, fees to expect.
It could be as simple as adding a comment line for the seller to complete for
each yes so they can state, "handling waived for overs over $xxx" or "lot fees
only charged if avg cost per lot is less than $1."
Bill
|
OK, but considering all the variations, how could that be coded to exclude some
but not all such sellers from search results?
Thor
|
Perhaps it can't. But even if it isn't searchable and merely collects these details
in a standard place, it would be a tremendous help for buyers.
Bill
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | brickmover | | Posted: | Jan 13, 2011 13:20 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, InanimateReason writes:
| | I'd rather see a feature where there is a list of fields to cover commonly charged
fees that lets the buyer see something like:
Paypal surcharge: yes/no
handling fees: yes/no
Lot limits: yes/no
lot fees: yes/no
Rather than ban them, make them searchable so buyers can choose to exclude sellers
who charge fees they don't want to pay.
|
Unfortunately, it is not that simple. For example, many good sellers have handling
fees, but only on smaller orders and which then phase out to nothing for orders
over a certain amount. How can such a seller answer yes/no in this case? If they
answer yes, they can then be excluded from searches even though they do NOT charge
fees for most of their orders. Ban or discourage fees more and you will get more
sellers adopting or increasing minimum order and/or shipping amounts.
Thor
|
This is exactly what I did voluntarily. I've tried many approaches to
my policies and cost recovery/minimizing losses. I've had no minimum order, $5
mimimum, $10 minimum- this is a good way to curtail the rate of sales at times
when I am really busy with off-BrickLink life. I've had no handling charges,
handling charges across the board, and handling charges that only apply to small
orders. I've experimented a lot to try and find what works best for my situation(s).
I surely will continue to.
But right now, just as you have mentioned sellers would go in this direction
if not allowed to charge fees, I have chosen to adopt a minimum order
in place of any extra fees. The tiny orders are not only less profitable and
often flat out result in taking losses, but also a waste of my time. Let other
sellers have those orders. I am happy to give them up. When I was first starting
out selling, I had less orders, more time, and a primary goal of bumping my FB
up to appear more trustworthy to buyers. All of those things have changed. So
now I have a minimum order but no fees.
Thankfully, BL allows sellers to be creative and charge whatever they want. Otherwise,
you are correct, such an action by BL could result in the vast majority of sellers
having minimum orders and/or shipping so that buyers are faced with no choice
but to spend more than they may sometimes want to, almost no matter where they
shop. At least now we have a choice as buyers of what stores to shop at and with
what kind of policies they have.
I agree that the bait and switch (not sure if that's the exact analogy here)
tactic of showing a listing price but that in the end it turns out to somehow
cost more, is really annoying. I too wish there was a way to curtail some of
the more extreme cases. But for now it seems the best idea is for buyers to make
a note of who they feel are the worst offenders and then never shop there.
Matt
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 20:18 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
|
This, and a myriad of other annoying issues, could be resolved If BL had an end-to-end
shopping cart system. One where you place the order, it does all the subtle calculations,
and takes you to the payment service screen (to leave immediate payment). That
would clarify the grand total before the order is committed (and lest anyone
think the order should be committed first, Google Checkout gives the buyer 15
minutes to cancel out, so there is a small window where problems could occur).
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| | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | Jan 2, 2011 21:30 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| This makes sense if ordering only one item, but makes little sense for a full
order.
It would push prices up, as sellers tried to insure they were not under charging
(and risking loss).
It is not as if shipping is an exact amount per tiny increment of weight.
Does it cost twice as much to ship me 2 of a 1x1 plate as it does to ship me
1 of a 1x1 plate?
See the problem?
One reason I rarely buy multiple products from the same non-amazon seller that
is selling via amazon, is that there is no combined shipping calculated. This
pushes the shipping cost artificially high, sending me elsewhere to make such
a purchase.
However, not showing shipping cost before having a buyer commit to the purchase
is a problem.
In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!! Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
Thanks
Jean
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| | | | | Author: | bje | | Posted: | Jan 3, 2011 04:57 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Thanks everybody for the replies and the suggestions posted. I guess I was hoping
to encourage stores to list, which in my view is the same as advertise, items
at the price that they are willing to accept as the item final price, excluding
shipping and handling of course, and without adding a % here and % there to the
detriment of other stores that already include all of those costs in their price
and list at that price.
I'm sorry also if this appeared to be re-hashing of a tired old subject, but
the intention was solely to promote fair viewing in the the price guide and listings
of items, and not to try and tell sellers how to run operations or how to price
in their stores. It remains my obvious duty to be the willing buyer in the contract
at the final price of the item, even it does eventually differ from the listed/advertised
price that took me to that 1 in 4000+ stores in the first case.
Thanks again all
Jean
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brickych | | Posted: | Jan 3, 2011 05:54 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Thanks Jean,
I just removed my 4-5% fee
Antoine
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=Brickych
In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | Thanks everybody for the replies and the suggestions posted. I guess I was hoping
to encourage stores to list, which in my view is the same as advertise, items
at the price that they are willing to accept as the item final price, excluding
shipping and handling of course, and without adding a % here and % there to the
detriment of other stores that already include all of those costs in their price
and list at that price.
I'm sorry also if this appeared to be re-hashing of a tired old subject, but
the intention was solely to promote fair viewing in the the price guide and listings
of items, and not to try and tell sellers how to run operations or how to price
in their stores. It remains my obvious duty to be the willing buyer in the contract
at the final price of the item, even it does eventually differ from the listed/advertised
price that took me to that 1 in 4000+ stores in the first case.
Thanks again all
Jean
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Jan 13, 2011 15:10 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| If it helps in your decision making process, you had a posting on here (it may
have been in sales) and I checked out your store. I then left your store after
reading of your fee
So, by removing it, I'll go and look again
In Suggestions, Brickych writes:
| | Thanks Jean,
I just removed my 4-5% fee
Antoine
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=Brickych
In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | Thanks everybody for the replies and the suggestions posted. I guess I was hoping
to encourage stores to list, which in my view is the same as advertise, items
at the price that they are willing to accept as the item final price, excluding
shipping and handling of course, and without adding a % here and % there to the
detriment of other stores that already include all of those costs in their price
and list at that price.
I'm sorry also if this appeared to be re-hashing of a tired old subject, but
the intention was solely to promote fair viewing in the the price guide and listings
of items, and not to try and tell sellers how to run operations or how to price
in their stores. It remains my obvious duty to be the willing buyer in the contract
at the final price of the item, even it does eventually differ from the listed/advertised
price that took me to that 1 in 4000+ stores in the first case.
Thanks again all
Jean
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| | | | | Author: | ABS_bricks | | Posted: | Jan 4, 2011 21:30 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | ... can the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
|
...
| | Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
Thanks
Jean
|
Hi Jean,
You make some really good points. I'm certain that with additional programming,
bricklink buyers would be able to see the full price before committing to buy
and therefore could search for the items that they want to purchase based on
the total price.
For now, buyers have to read store policies, many of which are poorly written.
Not everyone is skilled at writing clearly and concisely; some sellers don't
even know how to separate ideas into paragraphs!
Similarly, a pricing checklist used by all stores would enable buyers to know
what to expect to pay BEFORE they checkout. (Today, after checking out, I found
out that one seller interprets "actual shipping cost" as 150% of the required
postage.) The invoice stage for sellers could be eliminated.
I've never made a purchase on any other site without having an accurate total
before placing an order.
ABS
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| | | | | Author: | amazon | | Posted: | Jan 13, 2011 10:20 | | Subject: | Re: Payment Charges to be included in list price | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | This might mean nothing, and might be just a personal pain in the ass, but can
the Bricklink ToS please be revised to force list prices to include paypal and
other payment processing charges?
Example - Search item, find store with correct quantity and reasonable price.
Go to Store, item listed at EUR1.00, find terms page, store only accept paypal
or IBAN, so far so good, little bit further down, store charges 4% paypal fee
and IBAN fee is for buyer. WTF!!! Climb screaming down from the
wall, close store window, restart search etc etc.
On a more serious note, if a seller is never going to charge the price he lists
at, surely it makes no sense to allow sellers to list at that price? Some might
argue that its the sellers prerogative to add whatever he wants, and the payment
charge is the same as shipping and handling. Its actually not, as the paypal
charge refers to the entire order and will make the shipping also more expensive,
same with IBAN and other payment processing charges.
If seller A lists $100 with a 4% paypal surcharge that is never disclosed except
for the store terms, and seller B lists $101 with no surcharges and other funnies,
surely seller B is not only the more honest, but his price is actually the price
that is going to be charged, whereas seller A is actually going to charge $104,
which makes him more expensive than seller B, makes a mockery of the price guide,
gives him an unfair advantage in the listings, makes the term "only charges actual
shipping costs" utterly stupid and is generally a waste of my time.
Try to think of the list price as an advertised price - if that is the price,
surely you would expect that this is what you would pay upon visiting the store?
Does this practice not skew the price guide and sales histories? And shouldn't
the list prices give every seller a reasonable chance of his store being visited,
without the possibility of some back-door charging actually leading buyers astray?
I've seen sale items being listed at higher prices than normal listings, until
you visit the normal price stores , add the 4% and then realise you've been had.
Can buyers please have the expectation that they pay the price they see, not
some back-door inflated price ?
Thanks
Jean
|
hello, perhaps one way of dealing with this is to have a section in 'store terms'
headed OTHER CHARGES' where one could list paypal fees, packaging fees, expedited
shipping fees, low order fees etc. rather than reading through all the terms
to see extra fees.
also please bear in mind using paypal is a buyers choice. some sellers are quite
happy to receive payment by cheque, cash etc. particularly when shipping only
to their own country. The seller in that case cannot be expected to pay for the
postage to receive the cheque. Price guide is exactly what it says - A Guide.
Think of it like a sizing guide for clothes - Not guaranteed to fit but you know
roughly.
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