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| | | Author: | ToriHada  | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:07 | | Subject: | Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 302 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
|
| Currently, there are 145,984 BrickLink members. Of those members, 81,929 or 56%
have a feedback score of 1 or less. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority
of this 56% are casual one-time buyers who place a single order and never return
to BrickLink. I also think we need to recognize that BrickLink loses a great
many sales from other casual buyers who prefer to purchase from more user-friendly
competing online sites such as Amazon, Target and TRU which do not have annoying
cumbersome registration or membership requirements which deter quick impulse
buying. For all of us who are already members with multiple purchases under our
belts, we can't really understand why casual non-AFOL buyers may be reluctant
to register, nor can we say it is no problem to register and become a member.
We simply are not casual buyers.
I go to my local Lego Store once or twice a week. Every time I am there I hear
the cashiers asking customers if they want to join the Lego VIP program. At least
half of them refuse even though it costs them nothing and gives them 5% back
on later purchases. Why do they refuse to sign up for this program? Because they
don't want to be bothered with it, think it is a gimmick, don't have time to
do so, or are just buying one time for a special occasion. It is the same for
many potential buyers who visit BrickLink but never bother registering and becoming
a member. Why go through the time and hassle of registering and becoming a BrickLink
member if you only want to quickly buy one time and can easily do so at so many
other competing online sites? The fact that there are tens of thousands of buyers
who have gone through this hassle just for one purchase leads me to think there
are just as many, if not more, potential buyers who declined to do so. That translates
to a loss of tens of thousands of sales and maybe even more than 100,000 lost
sales. Sure, I am guessing with these numbers. But I don't think they are far-fetched,
nor do I think anyone can deny that BrickLink and its sellers have lost a great
many sales from buyers who chose not to register and become members.
The casual impulsive non-AFOL buyer market is undoubtedly very substantial and
I think BrickLink should do more to tap that market. One way to do this would
be to allow sellers to accept orders from such buyers without requiring those
buyers to register and become members of BrickLink. How can this be done?
Well, when a buyer wants to place an order with a BrickLink seller, the first
thing BrickLink will ask is whether he is a member or not. If the buyer is not
a member, rather than rejecting his order and requiring the buyer to register
and become a member (thereby scaring off a good percentage of such buyers), BrickLink
will prompt the buyer to enter their name and shipping address for the seller.
What happens next needs some further discussion and brainstorming. In other words,
I am putting forward as a suggestion the general idea of allowing sellers to
opt into accepting orders from non-members. That is the only thing I am suggesting
now. The finer details of how this will work are NOT part of this suggestion
and are just ideas for improving and refining this suggestion.
If we want to allow sellers to opt into accepting orders from non-members, here
are some of the other issues which will need to be resolved:
1. What terms and conditions will be imposed on these non-member buyers when
placing their orders? My thinking is that they should be told and have to mark
a checkbox acknowledging that they accept the seller's terms AND BrickLink's
ToS. or, instead, should these buyers all be subject to the same terms regardless
of where they shop?
2. Shipping. Should these buyers pay fixed shipping with immediate invoicing
and payment upon checkout, or should they be invoiced later in the normal BrickLink
manner?
3. How to explain to these buyers what BrickLink is about and encourage them
to upgrade to a member account. Among other things, we need to nicely explain
to them the benefits of membership and the limitations of non-membership.
4. Feedback. I suggest that no feedback be exchanged when dealing with non-members.
5. Access to other BrickLink features. My thinking is that non-members should
only be allowed to place orders with sellers who have opted to accept such orders
and that non-members should not be able to post in the forum or chat, file any
NSS claims, open their own shops, create wanted lists, etc.
6. The downsides. Allowing these orders may entail more risk to sellers who
accept them. For example, buyers who have been banned for multiple NPBs or PayPal
scams may use this feature to place orders they would may not otherwise place.
But on the other hand, a determined scammer or troublemaker is not likely to
be deterred by having to open another multiple or bogus BrickLink account.
What else have I missed? If you can think of other concerns that will need to
be addressed, please say so. And if you have better ideas for getting more casual
mom and pop buyers on BrickLink, please do let us know.
This will certainly involve some work. Is it worth it? It may *IF* it if it means
an extra thousand or so orders on BrickLink every month.
Thor
BTW, this suggestion is separate and different from my previous suggestion for
pre-registered accounts.
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| | | | | Author: | JasonsBricks | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:28 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Almost half of my current sales have come from new members, first time buyers,
none of them have complained about the sign up process. I don't think the average
AFOL looking at BrickLink for the first time would compare this site to Amazon,
etc, as those sites only sell sets. The appeal to BrickLink is being able to
buy the exact pieces one needs. If you make the buying process too casual you
will have more sellers burned in the long run. What are the repercussions to
the casual buyer who puts in an order then never pays? the other site get your
credit card right away, so they are covered. BrickLink as it is currently set
up, using the PayPal system, works pretty well the way it is for the average
joe wanting to sell some spare parts.
I personally take it upon myself to advertise locally on free classifieds, directing
new users to check the site out. I offer a direct contact method for any questions
regarding the site of the sign up process. This has been my bread and butter
so far, with no problems getting these new users to take the plunge and commit
to a full membership. Some have never bought again, and others have gone on to
buy from many other members here on BrickLink.
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Currently, there are 145,984 BrickLink members. Of those members, 81,929 or 56%
have a feedback score of 1 or less. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority
of this 56% are casual one-time buyers who place a single order and never return
to BrickLink. I also think we need to recognize that BrickLink loses a great
many sales from other casual buyers who prefer to purchase from more user-friendly
competing online sites such as Amazon, Target and TRU which do not have annoying
cumbersome registration or membership requirements which deter quick impulse
buying. For all of us who are already members with multiple purchases under our
belts, we can't really understand why casual non-AFOL buyers may be reluctant
to register, nor can we say it is no problem to register and become a member.
We simply are not casual buyers.
I go to my local Lego Store once or twice a week. Every time I am there I hear
the cashiers asking customers if they want to join the Lego VIP program. At least
half of them refuse even though it costs them nothing and gives them 5% back
on later purchases. Why do they refuse to sign up for this program? Because they
don't want to be bothered with it, think it is a gimmick, don't have time to
do so, or are just buying one time for a special occasion. It is the same for
many potential buyers who visit BrickLink but never bother registering and becoming
a member. Why go through the time and hassle of registering and becoming a BrickLink
member if you only want to quickly buy one time and can easily do so at so many
other competing online sites? The fact that there are tens of thousands of buyers
who have gone through this hassle just for one purchase leads me to think there
are just as many, if not more, potential buyers who declined to do so. That translates
to a loss of tens of thousands of sales and maybe even more than 100,000 lost
sales. Sure, I am guessing with these numbers. But I don't think they are far-fetched,
nor do I think anyone can deny that BrickLink and its sellers have lost a great
many sales from buyers who chose not to register and become members.
The casual impulsive non-AFOL buyer market is undoubtedly very substantial and
I think BrickLink should do more to tap that market. One way to do this would
be to allow sellers to accept orders from such buyers without requiring those
buyers to register and become members of BrickLink. How can this be done?
Well, when a buyer wants to place an order with a BrickLink seller, the first
thing BrickLink will ask is whether he is a member or not. If the buyer is not
a member, rather than rejecting his order and requiring the buyer to register
and become a member (thereby scaring off a good percentage of such buyers), BrickLink
will prompt the buyer to enter their name and shipping address for the seller.
What happens next needs some further discussion and brainstorming. In other words,
I am putting forward as a suggestion the general idea of allowing sellers to
opt into accepting orders from non-members. That is the only thing I am suggesting
now. The finer details of how this will work are NOT part of this suggestion
and are just ideas for improving and refining this suggestion.
If we want to allow sellers to opt into accepting orders from non-members, here
are some of the other issues which will need to be resolved:
1. What terms and conditions will be imposed on these non-member buyers when
placing their orders? My thinking is that they should be told and have to mark
a checkbox acknowledging that they accept the seller's terms AND BrickLink's
ToS. or, instead, should these buyers all be subject to the same terms regardless
of where they shop?
2. Shipping. Should these buyers pay fixed shipping with immediate invoicing
and payment upon checkout, or should they be invoiced later in the normal BrickLink
manner?
3. How to explain to these buyers what BrickLink is about and encourage them
to upgrade to a member account. Among other things, we need to nicely explain
to them the benefits of membership and the limitations of non-membership.
4. Feedback. I suggest that no feedback be exchanged when dealing with non-members.
5. Access to other BrickLink features. My thinking is that non-members should
only be allowed to place orders with sellers who have opted to accept such orders
and that non-members should not be able to post in the forum or chat, file any
NSS claims, open their own shops, create wanted lists, etc.
6. The downsides. Allowing these orders may entail more risk to sellers who
accept them. For example, buyers who have been banned for multiple NPBs or PayPal
scams may use this feature to place orders they would may not otherwise place.
But on the other hand, a determined scammer or troublemaker is not likely to
be deterred by having to open another multiple or bogus BrickLink account.
What else have I missed? If you can think of other concerns that will need to
be addressed, please say so. And if you have better ideas for getting more casual
mom and pop buyers on BrickLink, please do let us know.
This will certainly involve some work. Is it worth it? It may *IF* it if it means
an extra thousand or so orders on BrickLink every month.
Thor
BTW, this suggestion is separate and different from my previous suggestion for
pre-registered accounts.
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:49 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | Almost half of my current sales have come from new members, first time buyers,
none of them have complained about the sign up process.
|
This means nothing since you almost never hear complaints from people who did
not like the sign up process and who refused to complete that process. They just
go away, say nothing, and place their orders elsewhere.
| | I don't think the average AFOL looking at BrickLink for the first time would compare this site to Amazon, etc, as those sites only sell sets.
|
I am not talking about the "average AFOL". I am talking about parents, grandparents,
aunts, uncles, etc., wanting to buy a Lego present for their kids, grandkids,
nephews, nieces, etc. Regular NON-AFOL consumers. Furthermore, by making this
site more user-friendly to casual buyers, perhaps we can sell more sets.
| | The appeal to BrickLink is being able to buy the exact pieces one needs.
|
BrickLink sells more than parts. It also sells sets, minfigures and other items.
I think encouraging more casual non-AFOL buying will at least result in more
sales of sets.
| | If you make the buying process too casual you will have more sellers burned in the long run.
|
That is true. Thus, I suggested this as an OPTION only for those sellers willing
to assume the extra risk.
| | What are the repercussions to the casual buyer who puts in an order then never pays? the other site get your credit card right away, so they are covered.
|
If I opted into this, I would want to offer these non-member buyers the option
of immediately being invoiced and paying when checking out. See my other suggestion
in this regard. Non-member buyers who don't opt to pay immediately would be billed
in the normal BrickLink manner. But if they don't pay immediately when prompted
to do so, they most likely understand and accept that they will be billed later.
And the few who don't pay... well, that is a risk some sellers may be willing
to accept for increased sales. You don't have to if you don't want to, but others
might.
| | I personally take it upon myself to advertise locally on free classifieds, directing
new users to check the site out. I offer a direct contact method for any questions
regarding the site of the sign up process. This has been my bread and butter
so far, with no problems getting these new users to take the plunge and commit
to a full membership. Some have never bought again, and others have gone on to
buy from many other members here on BrickLink.
|
Again, you are not likely to hear about those who did not sign up for BrickLink.
This sort of anecdotal evidence only shows the successes, not the failures. So
it is one-sided and unreliable.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | JasonsBricks | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 00:13 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | Almost half of my current sales have come from new members, first time buyers,
none of them have complained about the sign up process.
|
This means nothing since you almost never hear complaints from people who did
not like the sign up process and who refused to complete that process. They just
go away, say nothing, and place their orders elsewhere.
| | I don't think the average AFOL looking at BrickLink for the first time would compare this site to Amazon, etc, as those sites only sell sets.
|
I am not talking about the "average AFOL". I am talking about parents, grandparents,
aunts, uncles, etc., wanting to buy a Lego present for their kids, grandkids,
nephews, nieces, etc. Regular NON-AFOL consumers. Furthermore, by making this
site more user-friendly to casual buyers, perhaps we can sell more sets.
| | The appeal to BrickLink is being able to buy the exact pieces one needs.
|
BrickLink sells more than parts. It also sells sets, minfigures and other items.
I think encouraging more casual non-AFOL buying will at least result in more
sales of sets.
| | If you make the buying process too casual you will have more sellers burned in the long run.
|
That is true. Thus, I suggested this as an OPTION only for those sellers willing
to assume the extra risk.
| | What are the repercussions to the casual buyer who puts in an order then never pays? the other site get your credit card right away, so they are covered.
|
If I opted into this, I would want to offer these non-member buyers the option
of immediately being invoiced and paying when checking out. See my other suggestion
in this regard. Non-member buyers who don't opt to pay immediately would be billed
in the normal BrickLink manner. But if they don't pay immediately when prompted
to do so, they most likely understand and accept that they will be billed later.
And the few who don't pay... well, that is a risk some sellers may be willing
to accept for increased sales. You don't have to if you don't want to, but others
might.
| | I personally take it upon myself to advertise locally on free classifieds, directing
new users to check the site out. I offer a direct contact method for any questions
regarding the site of the sign up process. This has been my bread and butter
so far, with no problems getting these new users to take the plunge and commit
to a full membership. Some have never bought again, and others have gone on to
buy from many other members here on BrickLink.
|
Again, you are not likely to hear about those who did not sign up for BrickLink.
This sort of anecdotal evidence only shows the successes, not the failures. So
it is one-sided and unreliable.
Thor
|
A fail to see the "failures" when I have had much success with first time buyers.
If you promote yourself, and offer help to first time buyers, they sign up, I
have proved myself, that it does work. Sure, if everything was perfect, maybe
I could have double the sales. The point is, in my case, I have had many first
time buyers, with great success, with no problems.
The site is not that difficult to sign up for, no more complex than amazon. Half
of the new members that have bought from me are parents or casual LEGO enthusiasts.
I have met them in person, as they have picked up their orders dirrect from me.
They have no clue about the collector LEGO market, they just bought stuff for
their kids, and without problems.
If one is purely looking for new sets, BrickLink is at a disadvantage right from
the start. The people you are supposedly targeting with this suggestion would
most likely be comparing apples to apples here, what's available at other online
retailers, vs. here on BrickLink. Most online retailers have very cheap or free
shipping, plus their prices are generally lower than the average joe selling
a set here on BrickLink (when comparing brand new, currently available sets).
Just out of curiosity, have you heard from all these low feedback members as
to why they have not returned? I think you are assuming too much. You are think
they have all jumped ship, but BrickLink really has no direct competitor when
you look at everything it has to offer. It's possible they only needed one thing,
and are just not that serious about LEGO. I had a momther buy a bunch of Star
Wars minifgis off me for her kids stockings this x-mas. She will most likely
never return. She got what she wanted and moved on, no big deal. I still got
a sale I would have not gotten otherwise.
I know you will argue any comments that disagree with your suggestions to the
death, so I will leave it at that...
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 00:27 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | Almost half of my current sales have come from new members, first time buyers,
none of them have complained about the sign up process.
|
This means nothing since you almost never hear complaints from people who did
not like the sign up process and who refused to complete that process. They just
go away, say nothing, and place their orders elsewhere.
| | I don't think the average AFOL looking at BrickLink for the first time would compare this site to Amazon, etc, as those sites only sell sets.
|
I am not talking about the "average AFOL". I am talking about parents, grandparents,
aunts, uncles, etc., wanting to buy a Lego present for their kids, grandkids,
nephews, nieces, etc. Regular NON-AFOL consumers. Furthermore, by making this
site more user-friendly to casual buyers, perhaps we can sell more sets.
| | The appeal to BrickLink is being able to buy the exact pieces one needs.
|
BrickLink sells more than parts. It also sells sets, minfigures and other items.
I think encouraging more casual non-AFOL buying will at least result in more
sales of sets.
| | If you make the buying process too casual you will have more sellers burned in the long run.
|
That is true. Thus, I suggested this as an OPTION only for those sellers willing
to assume the extra risk.
| | What are the repercussions to the casual buyer who puts in an order then never pays? the other site get your credit card right away, so they are covered.
|
If I opted into this, I would want to offer these non-member buyers the option
of immediately being invoiced and paying when checking out. See my other suggestion
in this regard. Non-member buyers who don't opt to pay immediately would be billed
in the normal BrickLink manner. But if they don't pay immediately when prompted
to do so, they most likely understand and accept that they will be billed later.
And the few who don't pay... well, that is a risk some sellers may be willing
to accept for increased sales. You don't have to if you don't want to, but others
might.
| | I personally take it upon myself to advertise locally on free classifieds, directing
new users to check the site out. I offer a direct contact method for any questions
regarding the site of the sign up process. This has been my bread and butter
so far, with no problems getting these new users to take the plunge and commit
to a full membership. Some have never bought again, and others have gone on to
buy from many other members here on BrickLink.
|
Again, you are not likely to hear about those who did not sign up for BrickLink.
This sort of anecdotal evidence only shows the successes, not the failures. So
it is one-sided and unreliable.
Thor
|
A fail to see the "failures" when I have had much success with first time buyers.
If you promote yourself, and offer help to first time buyers, they sign up, I
have proved myself, that it does work. Sure, if everything was perfect, maybe
I could have double the sales. The point is, in my case, I have had many first
time buyers, with great success, with no problems.
The site is not that difficult to sign up for, no more complex than amazon. Half
of the new members that have bought from me are parents or casual LEGO enthusiasts.
I have met them in person, as they have picked up their orders dirrect from me.
They have no clue about the collector LEGO market, they just bought stuff for
their kids, and without problems.
If one is purely looking for new sets, BrickLink is at a disadvantage right from
the start. The people you are supposedly targeting with this suggestion would
most likely be comparing apples to apples here, what's available at other online
retailers, vs. here on BrickLink. Most online retailers have very cheap or free
shipping, plus their prices are generally lower than the average joe selling
a set here on BrickLink (when comparing brand new, currently available sets).
Just out of curiosity, have you heard from all these low feedback members as
to why they have not returned? I think you are assuming too much. You are think
they have all jumped ship, but BrickLink really has no direct competitor when
you look at everything it has to offer. It's possible they only needed one thing,
and are just not that serious about LEGO. I had a momther buy a bunch of Star
Wars minifgis off me for her kids stockings this x-mas. She will most likely
never return. She got what she wanted and moved on, no big deal. I still got
a sale I would have not gotten otherwise.
I know you will argue any comments that disagree with your suggestions to the
death, so I will leave it at that...
|
I have had the same experience with buyers as you have had. I would go back
and check their feedback received and given (it any) and they only made a couple
of purchases and left. I have also had low feedback buyers make several orders
totaling in the thousands of dollars all of a suddenly stop and not buy anything
else on bricklink (judging from feedback) From what I have sold to some of the
low feedback buyers that disappear I can imagine the following: Grandpa or grandma
or daddy or mommy I want this lego set." An online search leads them to bricklink,
they buy the set and the kid is happy, grandpa is happy and next year the kid
wants a megablock set.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 00:49 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | If you promote yourself, and offer help to first time buyers, they sign up, I
have proved myself, that it does work. Sure, if everything was perfect, maybe
I could have double the sales. The point is, in my case, I have had many first
time buyers, with great success, with no problems.
|
So have I and many other sellers. Are you saying that since BrickLink already
gets some new buyers nothing more needs to be done to attract even more new buyers?
I don't deny that one-on-one salesmanship works. But we can't be everywhere all
the time and promote BrickLink one-on-one to everyone everywhere all the time.
What I am suggesting does not replace the hard work that you and others do to
promote BrickLink. It SUPPLEMENTS that work. Again, I am proposing an OPTION
which you do not have to use if you don't want to.
| | The site is not that difficult to sign up for, no more complex than amazon. Half
of the new members that have bought from me are parents or casual LEGO enthusiasts.
I have met them in person, as they have picked up their orders dirrect from me.
They have no clue about the collector LEGO market, they just bought stuff for
their kids, and without problems.
|
Again, these are people who were not intimidated by or reluctant to go through
the BrickLink membership process. But do you deny that there are some people
who ARE intimidated by this process and reluctant to go through it? I know I
have refused to sign up or become a member of other websites just so I can buy
something if I think they ask for too much information or make it more hassle
than it needs to be.
| | If one is purely looking for new sets, BrickLink is at a disadvantage right from
the start. The people you are supposedly targeting with this suggestion would
most likely be comparing apples to apples here, what's available at other online
retailers, vs. here on BrickLink. Most online retailers have very cheap or free
shipping, plus their prices are generally lower than the average joe selling
a set here on BrickLink (when comparing brand new, currently available sets).
|
You are speaking in sweeping generalizations. I know several BrickLink sellers
who offer currently available sets for cheaper than the regular prices one can
find at TRU, Target and LS@H. I also find that shipping from BrickLink sellers
is usually cheaper than the fixed rate shipping charged by other online retailers.
And for sets that have been discontinued, BrickLink is the best place to find
those sets. The market for sets on BrickLink is one we should work to improve,
not one we should resign ourselves to being at a disadvantage.
| |
Just out of curiosity, have you heard from all these low feedback members as
to why they have not returned? I think you are assuming too much. You are think
they have all jumped ship, but BrickLink really has no direct competitor when
you look at everything it has to offer. It's possible they only needed one thing,
and are just not that serious about LEGO.
|
Exactly. And I am sure there are many other potential buyers just like them,
some of whom won't be bothered to register and become a member just so they can
make one single impulse purchase.
| | I had a momther buy a bunch of Star Wars minifgis off me for her kids stockings this x-mas. She will most likely never return. She got what she wanted and moved on, no big deal. I still got a sale I would have not gotten otherwise.
|
Good for you! Now what about those others sales you didn't get because potential
buyers thought the sign-up process was too bothersome? The moms who decided to
buy their kids' presents from an easier more user-friendly retailer who didn't
make her jump through a bunch of sign-up, registration membership hoops. Can
you or anyone else here really say you never lost a single sale because a potential
buyer was intimidated or annoyed by the BrickLink registration process?
| | I know you will argue any comments that disagree with your suggestions to the
death, so I will leave it at that...
|
Contrary to what you might believe, I don't argue for the mere sake of arguing.
I argue if I think the arguments of the other side have holes, are illogical
or simply are not persuasive. You and others do exactly the same. Now let's keep
this discussion on track by discussing the issues, rather than expressing opinions
on other's propensity to argue.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | JasonsBricks | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 01:15 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 01:54 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | The casual impulsive non-AFOL buyer market is undoubtedly very substantial and
I think BrickLink should do more to tap that market. One way to do this would
be to allow sellers to accept orders from such buyers without requiring those
buyers to register and become members of BrickLink. How can this be done?
|
I think that you may be overstating the number of buyers turned away and their
reasons for doing so.
There are many MUCH more important reasons that buyers may choose to shop at
sites such as Amazon, Target and Toys-R-Us.
1. Name recognition. Unless you live under a rock, you are going to know who
/ what these places are. BrickLink? Not so much.
2. Amazon offers buyers an A to Z satisfaction guarantee. If the buyer doesn't
like something, they are going to get their money back. No. Matter. What. BrickLink?
Not so much.
3. Target and Toys-R-Us offer the convenience of local stores in most areas,
should problems arise with your order or you need to return an item. BrickLink?
Not so much.
4. Returns. All of these stores allow returns, for pretty much any reason.
Amazon even imposes this on its marketplace sellers. BrickLink? Not so much.
5. Single point of contact should something go wrong. All of these stores have
published customer service contacts in place should there be a problem. BrickLink?
Not so much.
I don't think that having to sign up is deterring as many people as you assume.
If they want to buy something, they will sign up and buy it.
You will also need to touch on the issues I brought up in your other thread on
how this won't be abused as a method to circumvent stop-lists and banning.
Troy
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 09:28 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | The casual impulsive non-AFOL buyer market is undoubtedly very substantial and
I think BrickLink should do more to tap that market. One way to do this would
be to allow sellers to accept orders from such buyers without requiring those
buyers to register and become members of BrickLink. How can this be done?
|
I think that you may be overstating the number of buyers turned away and their
reasons for doing so.
There are many MUCH more important reasons that buyers may choose to shop at
sites such as Amazon, Target and Toys-R-Us.
1. Name recognition. Unless you live under a rock, you are going to know who
/ what these places are. BrickLink? Not so much.
2. Amazon offers buyers an A to Z satisfaction guarantee. If the buyer doesn't
like something, they are going to get their money back. No. Matter. What. BrickLink?
Not so much.
3. Target and Toys-R-Us offer the convenience of local stores in most areas,
should problems arise with your order or you need to return an item. BrickLink?
Not so much.
4. Returns. All of these stores allow returns, for pretty much any reason.
Amazon even imposes this on its marketplace sellers. BrickLink? Not so much.
5. Single point of contact should something go wrong. All of these stores have
published customer service contacts in place should there be a problem. BrickLink?
Not so much.
|
All very good points Troy - and all the more reason for BrickLink to become more
competitive by removing some of the barriers to purchasing here. As you note,
there are at least five good reasons why casual buyers would choose to buy elsewhere
instead of BrickLink. One reason you forgot to add was the inconvenience, delay,
intimidation and deterence effect of BrickLink's requirement that buyers register
and become a member of this site. I don't have any hard numbers regarding how
many buyers this has turned away over the years, but I don't think anyone can
say that number is negligible. Just because there are 5 good reasons NOT to buy
on BrickLink does not mean we should give buyers a 6th reason not to buy here,
or that we should not consider moves that could make this site more attractive
and competitive than others.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | JasonsBricks | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 10:12 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't have any hard numbers regarding how
many buyers this has turned away over the years, but I don't think anyone can
say that number is negligible. Just because there are 5 good reasons NOT to buy
on BrickLink does not mean we should give buyers a 6th reason not to buy here,
or that we should not consider moves that could make this site more attractive
and competitive than others.
|
The problem is, you don't have any numbers and this entire suggestion is based
on assumption. Give us one example of someone who finds the sign up process for
BrickLink to difficult and it has turned them off, only to buy on a major online
retailer. How is BrickLink more difficult then signing up for Amazon or other
sites? I gave you evidence of the very type customer signing up you said was
intimidated and would not sign up. You counter saying we are losing sales. Just
give us one example to back this up. One could argue that the font in the BricLink
logo turns away potential buyers because the font is not strong enough, it has
the same logic. I could assume that is the case, but it is based on nothing.
As Troy mentioned there are many other factors that would turn away a potential
buyer before they even consider signing up. BrickLink is more like ebay than
like any of the other online retailers you suggest, we are not comparing apples
to apples here. It is a secondary market. The main reason one would shy away
from buying on ebay, vs a major online retailer is risk. What evidence would
support your idea that if somehow the registration process was simplified, that
new members would sign up in droves?
I would argue that first, and foremost, BrickLink needs a more modern interface,
a web 2.0 look and feel. Online retailers that look outdated will turn someone
off faster than the sign-up process. Marketing also plays a big factor. This
site does not market itself to the market you suggest is being lost. I only signed
up for BrickLink for the first time, just this year. The sign up process was
the very least of my worries, pretty standard if you ask me, as a new user.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 10:24 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't have any hard numbers regarding how
many buyers this has turned away over the years, but I don't think anyone can
say that number is negligible. Just because there are 5 good reasons NOT to buy
on BrickLink does not mean we should give buyers a 6th reason not to buy here,
or that we should not consider moves that could make this site more attractive
and competitive than others.
|
The problem is, you don't have any numbers and this entire suggestion is based
on assumption. Give us one example of someone who finds the sign up process for
BrickLink to difficult and it has turned them off, only to buy on a major online
retailer. How is BrickLink more difficult then signing up for Amazon or other
sites? I gave you evidence of the very type customer signing up you said was
intimidated and would not sign up. You counter saying we are losing sales. Just
give us one example to back this up. One could argue that the font in the BricLink
logo turns away potential buyers because the font is not strong enough, it has
the same logic. I could assume that is the case, but it is based on nothing.
|
You want me to do the impossible - prove a negative. You can easily prove that
people were not intimidated by the sign-up process because they did, in fact,
sign-up. But how do you expect me to find unknown people with unknown contact
information who just walked away without signing up? I can't do that. But that
does not mean those people don't exist. Assumption? Yes, but a very reasonable
one.
I don't think you or anyone else can reasonably argue that the BrickLink sign-up
process has turned away SOME buyers. Where we disagree is HOW MANY buyers has
it turned away and whether removing some of the barriers to buying here would
make a significant difference in the number of additional sales.
| | As Troy mentioned there are many other factors that would turn away a potential
buyer before they even consider signing up.
|
So, because there are other factors, we should just give up and keep in place
yet another factor that turns away some potential buyers?
| | I would argue that first, and foremost, BrickLink needs a more modern interface,
a web 2.0 look and feel. Online retailers that look outdated will turn someone
off faster than the sign-up process.
|
Do you have any proof that potential buyers have walked away from BrickLink because
it supposedly has an outdated interface? Or, like me, are you just making an
assumption? 
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | JasonsBricks | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 10:44 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Do you have any proof that potential buyers have walked away from BrickLink because
it supposedly has an outdated interface? Or, like me, are you just making an
assumption?
|
In fact, I do. I have many years as a marketing professional and market research
into online consumer confidence. The high tech company I worked for, for 10 years,
sold all of its products online. We researched this very subject many times with
consumer feedback polls. Online shopping has many challenges and hurdles compared
to traditional methods. Branding and overall look to an interface can instill
much more confidence in the consumer. If it looks risky and like it was possibly
built in someones basement, people feel like there is more risk to getting involved.
BrickLink's interface was made 10 years ago, that's light-years ago in the web
world, a lot has changed.
In terms of marketing to theses supposed lost sales, the sign up process is very
negligible.
The overall point here is that your suggestion does not address the supposed
problem, there is a much bigger picture here.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 10:57 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Do you have any proof that potential buyers have walked away from BrickLink because
it supposedly has an outdated interface? Or, like me, are you just making an
assumption?
|
In fact, I do. I have many years as a marketing professional and market research
into online consumer confidence. The high tech company I worked for, for 10 years,
sold all of its products online. We researched this very subject many times with
consumer feedback polls. Online shopping has many challenges and hurdles compared
to traditional methods. Branding and overall look to an interface can instill
much more confidence in the consumer. If it looks risky and like it was possibly
built in someones basement, people feel like there is more risk to getting involved.
BrickLink's interface was made 10 years ago, that's light-years ago in the web
world, a lot has changed.
|
I hate change!!! First it was BrickBay, then the auctions disappeared, how does
one cope?
John P
| |
In terms of marketing to theses supposed lost sales, the sign up process is very
negligible.
The overall point here is that your suggestion does not address the supposed
problem, there is a much bigger picture here.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 11:05 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 11:00 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Do you have any proof that potential buyers have walked away from BrickLink because
it supposedly has an outdated interface? Or, like me, are you just making an
assumption?
|
In fact, I do. I have many years as a marketing professional and market research
into online consumer confidence. The high tech company I worked for, for 10 years,
sold all of its products online. We researched this very subject many times with
consumer feedback polls. Online shopping has many challenges and hurdles compared
to traditional methods. Branding and overall look to an interface can instill
much more confidence in the consumer. If it looks risky and like it was possibly
built in someones basement, people feel like there is more risk to getting involved.
BrickLink's interface was made 10 years ago, that's light-years ago in the web
world, a lot has changed.
|
You still have not given me one single example of any potential buyer walking
away from BrickLink because it supposedly has an outdated interface. Instead,
you tell me about your general experience in marketing and use that as "proof"
that the BL interface results in lost sales. I can do the same thing. I have
seen many buyers refuse to purchase items in retail stores or online when they
are asked too many questions or when they are required to jump through hoops
to make a simple purchase. In fact, I have been one such potential buyer - several
times. If I had to register and join TRU as a "member" just to be able to buy
something in their stores or website, I would just go to Target or WalMart or
any number of a dozen other sellers who won't require me to join and become a
member. And remember my first example about the LEGO VIP cards. I am in my local
Lego Store at least two hours each week getting PaB right behind the cashiers
and talking with the staff. Every time the cashier rings up a sale, she asks
the customer if the are a LEGO VIP member or want to become one. Even though
it costs nothing and takes only a few minutes to register and join, at least
half the customers decline. I bet a large percentage of those customers would
walk out of the store with nothing if they were told they HAD to become a member
in order to buy something.
I don't understand the strong opposition to expanding BrickLink's market by offering
to sell to non-members if sellers so wish. It is not being forced on anyone who
does not want it and it will benefit BrickLink and sellers who participate with
increased sales, prestiege and name recognition for BrickLink - which is good
for everyone. The increased risk is negligibe because the current sign-up system
offers absolutely no protection against scammers or dishonest buyers.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 11:32 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Do you have any proof that potential buyers have walked away from BrickLink because
it supposedly has an outdated interface? Or, like me, are you just making an
assumption?
|
In fact, I do. I have many years as a marketing professional and market research
into online consumer confidence. The high tech company I worked for, for 10 years,
sold all of its products online. We researched this very subject many times with
consumer feedback polls. Online shopping has many challenges and hurdles compared
to traditional methods. Branding and overall look to an interface can instill
much more confidence in the consumer. If it looks risky and like it was possibly
built in someones basement, people feel like there is more risk to getting involved.
BrickLink's interface was made 10 years ago, that's light-years ago in the web
world, a lot has changed.
|
You still have not given me one single example of any potential buyer walking
away from BrickLink because it supposedly has an outdated interface. Instead,
you tell me about your general experience in marketing and use that as "proof"
that the BL interface results in lost sales. I can do the same thing. I have
seen many buyers refuse to purchase items in retail stores or online when they
are asked too many questions or when they are required to jump through hoops
to make a simple purchase. In fact, I have been one such potential buyer - several
times. If I had to register and join TRU as a "member" just to be able to buy
something in their stores or website, I would just go to Target or WalMart or
any number of a dozen other sellers who won't require me to join and become a
member. And remember my first example about the LEGO VIP cards. I am in my local
Lego Store at least two hours each week getting PaB right behind the cashiers
and talking with the staff. Every time the cashier rings up a sale, she asks
the customer if the are a LEGO VIP member or want to become one. Even though
it costs nothing and takes only a few minutes to register and join, at least
half the customers decline. I bet a large percentage of those customers would
walk out of the store with nothing if they were told they HAD to become a member
in order to buy something.
I don't understand the strong opposition to expanding BrickLink's market by offering
to sell to non-members if sellers so wish. It is not being forced on anyone who
does not want it and it will benefit BrickLink and sellers who participate with
increased sales, prestiege and name recognition for BrickLink - which is good
for everyone. The increased risk is negligibe because the current sign-up system
offers absolutely no protection against scammers or dishonest buyers.
Thor
|
The world population is 6,697,254,041. There are 145,984 members on bricklink.
There must be something we can do to get the other 6,697,108,057 to join.
I was thinking about a pyramid scheme. Foster (or is that Dan, or is that Jon,
or Thor? I get so confused) could get two stores to join and they get two more
each down the line and they each get two new members and eventually we will get
those 6,697,108,057 potential buyers to use bricklink. Sellers could end up with
millions of feedbacks. There would be millions of forum posts everyday. Sellers
would spend time reading the posts and not have time to list new stuff. The members
would drop off one by one and eventually we would have Admin, in an undetermined
country or state, (I would have thought he would have figured that one out by
now) sitting alone at the top of the pyramid and watching Bricklink go the way
of the Edsel. Oh, I almost forgot the scammers. If one tenth of one percent
are scammers, then we would only have, let me figure this out......a lot of them.
"Bigger is not always better" a lady told me once.
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 11:50 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Darth_Smithy | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 12:43 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Do you have any proof that potential buyers have walked away from BrickLink because
it supposedly has an outdated interface? Or, like me, are you just making an
assumption?
|
In fact, I do. I have many years as a marketing professional and market research
into online consumer confidence. The high tech company I worked for, for 10 years,
sold all of its products online. We researched this very subject many times with
consumer feedback polls. Online shopping has many challenges and hurdles compared
to traditional methods. Branding and overall look to an interface can instill
much more confidence in the consumer. If it looks risky and like it was possibly
built in someones basement, people feel like there is more risk to getting involved.
BrickLink's interface was made 10 years ago, that's light-years ago in the web
world, a lot has changed.
|
You still have not given me one single example of any potential buyer walking
away from BrickLink because it supposedly has an outdated interface. Instead,
you tell me about your general experience in marketing and use that as "proof"
that the BL interface results in lost sales. I can do the same thing. I have
seen many buyers refuse to purchase items in retail stores or online when they
are asked too many questions or when they are required to jump through hoops
to make a simple purchase. In fact, I have been one such potential buyer - several
times. If I had to register and join TRU as a "member" just to be able to buy
something in their stores or website, I would just go to Target or WalMart or
any number of a dozen other sellers who won't require me to join and become a
member. And remember my first example about the LEGO VIP cards. I am in my local
Lego Store at least two hours each week getting PaB right behind the cashiers
and talking with the staff. Every time the cashier rings up a sale, she asks
the customer if the are a LEGO VIP member or want to become one. Even though
it costs nothing and takes only a few minutes to register and join, at least
half the customers decline. I bet a large percentage of those customers would
walk out of the store with nothing if they were told they HAD to become a member
in order to buy something.
I don't understand the strong opposition to expanding BrickLink's market by offering
to sell to non-members if sellers so wish. It is not being forced on anyone who
does not want it and it will benefit BrickLink and sellers who participate with
increased sales, prestiege and name recognition for BrickLink - which is good
for everyone. The increased risk is negligibe because the current sign-up system
offers absolutely no protection against scammers or dishonest buyers.
Thor
|
The world population is 6,697,254,041. There are 145,984 members on bricklink.
There must be something we can do to get the other 6,697,108,057 to join.
I was thinking about a pyramid scheme. Foster (or is that Dan, or is that Jon,
or Thor? I get so confused) could get two stores to join and they get two more
each down the line and they each get two new members and eventually we will get
those 6,697,108,057 potential buyers to use bricklink. Sellers could end up with
millions of feedbacks. There would be millions of forum posts everyday. Sellers
would spend time reading the posts and not have time to list new stuff. The members
would drop off one by one and eventually we would have Admin, in an undetermined
country or state, (I would have thought he would have figured that one out by
now) sitting alone at the top of the pyramid and watching Bricklink go the way
of the Edsel. Oh, I almost forgot the scammers. If one tenth of one percent
are scammers, then we would only have, let me figure this out......a lot of them.
"Bigger is not always better" a lady told me once.
John P
|
LOL. If, ten years ago, Admin thought like you did BrickLink would still have
only 54 members and two sales a week. Seriously, all this aversion to increased
sales makes no sense at all.
Thor
|
And if he thought like you it would be bogged down in an endless bureacracy of
rules and more legal text than a mortgage.
Kidding aside, I will admit to not having read the suggestion. If I could make
a suggestion to you, it would be to space out your suggestions for the following
reasons:
1. I read the first 4 or so with interest, and then stopped. Overload.
2. Too many suggestions at once means (if anyone manages to get through them
all, some were lengthy) one or two will get discussed heavily and the rest will
get forgotten in the wake.
Also the suggestion to give credit for suggestions should not have been immediately
followed by 12 other suggestions. It makes it seem a bit self serving.
Chris
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 12:55 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Darth_Smithy | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 13:05 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Note I mentioned credit for IMPLEMENTED suggestions. Anyone can make a suggestion.
What matters is what gets implemented or improved as a result.
|
I will leave this discussion to the appropriate thread.
| | Now, do you actually have anything constructive to say about this particular
suggestion?
Thor
|
Nope not a thing. I was trying to be constructive about suggestion tsunamis.
The option to sell to non-members is more than likely a complete non-starter.
Actually maybe I do have something... I find it odd that you are so gung ho about
this when just a few days ago you shot down another member's suggestion for wanting
the option to sell to banned buyers. Isn't opening doors to unregulated buyers
pretty much the same thing as far as bad buyers go? Not trying to tick you off,
serious question.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 22:39 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Darth_Smithy writes:
| | I find it odd that you are so gung ho about this when just a few days ago you shot down another member's suggestion for wanting the option to sell to banned buyers. Isn't opening doors to unregulated buyers pretty much the same thing as far as bad buyers go?
|
No, it is not. Non-members and banned members are not the same. A banned member
is someone who has been tested and failed. A non-member is someone who has not
been tested at all. Since all members were once non-members and 99.9% of members
are good honest buyers, I see no reason to think non-members would be significantly
more dishonest or bad. After all, non-members make up the pool from which members
come.
Can banned members sneak in and continue purchasing and causing trouble as a
non-member? Absolutely. But they can already do this as a new member with a new
account. The BrickLink registration system does not prevent banned members from
opening new accounts and continuing to buy here. In fact, the current BL registration
system does absolutely nothing to verify a new member's name, address or honesty.
So allowing non-member purchases does not create any more risk of bad buyers
buying than the current system already allows.
Thor
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2010 00:14 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Darth_Smithy writes:
| | I find it odd that you are so gung ho about this when just a few days ago you shot down another member's suggestion for wanting the option to sell to banned buyers. Isn't opening doors to unregulated buyers pretty much the same thing as far as bad buyers go?
|
No, it is not. Non-members and banned members are not the same. A banned member
is someone who has been tested and failed. A non-member is someone who has not
been tested at all. Since all members were once non-members and 99.9% of members
are good honest buyers, I see no reason to think non-members would be significantly
more dishonest or bad. After all, non-members make up the pool from which members
come.
Can banned members sneak in and continue purchasing and causing trouble as a
non-member? Absolutely. But they can already do this as a new member with a new
account. The BrickLink registration system does not prevent banned members from
opening new accounts and continuing to buy here. In fact, the current BL registration
system does absolutely nothing to verify a new member's name, address or honesty.
|
That is a gripe I have. I think that if Admin wanted to he could do something
about that. While that would limit the number of buyers, he is losing nothing
by letting bad buyers do this. The sole loss would fall on the seller. Either
way it is no skin off BrinkLink's nose. But it can be a lot off a small store.
If I am not mistaken, IP address can be verified and if they are the same, you
know if you have the same person with a different email address. At least that
is the way I understand it. Also I wonder if a banned buyer can put down all
the same information and a different ID name and get a new membership and go
along their merry old way, till they burn another seller. I think that this
is the greatest flaw of BL and I understand that Admin does not want to limit
sales and the number of buyers, but he probably would if he were responsible
for the loss that the seller suffers. I just do not get it. Am I missing something
here or am I wrong?
John P
| | So allowing non-member purchases does not create any more risk of bad buyers
buying than the current system already allows.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cptnruthless | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2010 00:26 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | That is a gripe I have. I think that if Admin wanted to he could do something
about that. While that would limit the number of buyers, he is losing nothing
by letting bad buyers do this. The sole loss would fall on the seller. Either
way it is no skin off BrinkLink's nose. But it can be a lot off a small store.
If I am not mistaken, IP address can be verified and if they are the same, you
know if you have the same person with a different email address. At least that
is the way I understand it. Also I wonder if a banned buyer can put down all
the same information and a different ID name and get a new membership and go
along their merry old way, till they burn another seller. I think that this
is the greatest flaw of BL and I understand that Admin does not want to limit
sales and the number of buyers, but he probably would if he were responsible
for the loss that the seller suffers. I just do not get it. Am I missing something
here or am I wrong?
John P
|
As an admin on another site who has to deal with IP's all the time, I'll chime
in on this:
IP's can be dynamic, which means that every time you shut off your computer/restart
the modem, you get a different address.
IP's can also be shared. If buyer A is banned via IP, then their sister, brother,
cousin or anyone else using the same computer/internet connection also cant
use bricklink
There's also: those who go out of their way to have a different IP, using a public
computer (library, school) or use a proxy - but you cant block all proxies because
sometimes people legitimately use them....
In essence, it's not as simple as it sounds, unfortunately. There will always
be ways to get around a system. At least at BL we dont have to worry about bots
registering and posting spam in the forum...
-Ruth
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2010 00:47 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cptnruthless writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | That is a gripe I have. I think that if Admin wanted to he could do something
about that. While that would limit the number of buyers, he is losing nothing
by letting bad buyers do this. The sole loss would fall on the seller. Either
way it is no skin off BrinkLink's nose. But it can be a lot off a small store.
If I am not mistaken, IP address can be verified and if they are the same, you
know if you have the same person with a different email address. At least that
is the way I understand it. Also I wonder if a banned buyer can put down all
the same information and a different ID name and get a new membership and go
along their merry old way, till they burn another seller. I think that this
is the greatest flaw of BL and I understand that Admin does not want to limit
sales and the number of buyers, but he probably would if he were responsible
for the loss that the seller suffers. I just do not get it. Am I missing something
here or am I wrong?
John P
|
As an admin on another site who has to deal with IP's all the time, I'll chime
in on this:
IP's can be dynamic, which means that every time you shut off your computer/restart
the modem, you get a different address.
IP's can also be shared. If buyer A is banned via IP, then their sister, brother,
cousin or anyone else using the same computer/internet connection also cant
use bricklink
There's also: those who go out of their way to have a different IP, using a public
computer (library, school) or use a proxy - but you cant block all proxies because
sometimes people legitimately use them....
In essence, it's not as simple as it sounds, unfortunately. There will always
be ways to get around a system. At least at BL we dont have to worry about bots
registering and posting spam in the forum...
-Ruth
|
Thanks for the education on that. I still wonder if a banned member put in all
the same information that was on a banned account and a different user ID, he
could register.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 13:08 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| |
LOL. If, ten years ago, Admin thought like you did BrickLink would still have
only 54 members and two sales a week. Seriously, all this aversion to increased
sales makes no sense at all.
Thor
|
Walmart started out with one store. Now it is the largest employer in the US.
Does that make it better? (and helping to ruin our balance of trade.) Sometimes
increasing something is not good. Most sellers seem to be (and this is an opinion)
quite satisfied with the way things go now. There is a lot of buyers and I would
say, from somewhere above, there are 100 buyers for every seller. I would think
that Admin would know what to do if he wanted to increase membership by a large
amount. He figured out how to do BrickLink, he could figure out how to increase
members. But sometimes it is better to leave things alone and let nature take
its course. Steady growth is better in the long run.
I just like the site the way it is. You get to know people who have similar interests
and buyers are not just a number and a sale. Not only that, what a wealth of
knowledge abounds here and anything that speeds up the process that works might
destroy some of this. Double the number of members and you get another Swamberg.
Bricklink will increase slowly and I would say that is good. With Lego S@H giving
out the address and Peeron linking to Bricklink there will always be new buyers.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | JasonsBricks | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 12:37 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, JasonLEGO77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Do you have any proof that potential buyers have walked away from BrickLink because
it supposedly has an outdated interface? Or, like me, are you just making an
assumption?
|
In fact, I do. I have many years as a marketing professional and market research
into online consumer confidence. The high tech company I worked for, for 10 years,
sold all of its products online. We researched this very subject many times with
consumer feedback polls. Online shopping has many challenges and hurdles compared
to traditional methods. Branding and overall look to an interface can instill
much more confidence in the consumer. If it looks risky and like it was possibly
built in someones basement, people feel like there is more risk to getting involved.
BrickLink's interface was made 10 years ago, that's light-years ago in the web
world, a lot has changed.
|
You still have not given me one single example of any potential buyer walking
away from BrickLink because it supposedly has an outdated interface. Instead,
you tell me about your general experience in marketing and use that as "proof"
that the BL interface results in lost sales. I can do the same thing. I have
seen many buyers refuse to purchase items in retail stores or online when they
are asked too many questions or when they are required to jump through hoops
to make a simple purchase. In fact, I have been one such potential buyer - several
times. If I had to register and join TRU as a "member" just to be able to buy
something in their stores or website, I would just go to Target or WalMart or
any number of a dozen other sellers who won't require me to join and become a
member. And remember my first example about the LEGO VIP cards. I am in my local
Lego Store at least two hours each week getting PaB right behind the cashiers
and talking with the staff. Every time the cashier rings up a sale, she asks
the customer if the are a LEGO VIP member or want to become one. Even though
it costs nothing and takes only a few minutes to register and join, at least
half the customers decline. I bet a large percentage of those customers would
walk out of the store with nothing if they were told they HAD to become a member
in order to buy something.
I don't understand the strong opposition to expanding BrickLink's market by offering
to sell to non-members if sellers so wish. It is not being forced on anyone who
does not want it and it will benefit BrickLink and sellers who participate with
increased sales, prestiege and name recognition for BrickLink - which is good
for everyone. The increased risk is negligibe because the current sign-up system
offers absolutely no protection against scammers or dishonest buyers.
Thor
|
My stance is not a strong opposition to opening up BrickLink to new members.
As I have stated before I sell to many new members and I welcome them, I seek
them out. My stance is against your suggestion as it is presented
Furthermore, your suggestion is too generalized. You state that the sign up process
is too difficult, yet offer only general statements about consumers unwillingness
to sign up for something to back that up. Your examples regarding signing up
do not make sense. Every single online retailer requires one to give up their
full information if you actually want to buy something, it's pretty straight
forward. The site needs that information to make the transaction happen. The
websites that have the much simpler sign up that you reference grab all of your
information before purchase, and you need a credit card in the majority of cases,
which automatically gives the retailer all the protection they need as well.
It is the same thing in the end, it is just a tiered method of getting the info.
The biggest difference you are missing is the whole check out process. When you
order something form the big online retailers, once you hit that "BUY" button,
they have your money. It doesn't work like that here on BrickLink. Now it is
up to the vendor to chase the customer down for the money to complete the transaction.
The casual person who makes an impulse buy, without signing up may just walk
away after they receive an invoice a few days later (as is the case with many
small shops). Now their inventory is tied up.
I shop at walmart.com. When I go to the site, it says "Hello Jason". They have
my email address, my name, all my shipping info and my credit card information.
How is this any different, besides the fact I didn't create a user name? They
have my real name, which is essentially my user name for this purpose. Same thing
at Amazon... Even though I am not a "member" of the aforementioned sites, I am
sure they treat me as such, I get all their sales emails!
Like I said, I oppose your suggestion as they way it is presented, not the expansion
of BrickLink to new customers. I just see flaws in this idea, in this format.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 16:00 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I don't understand the strong opposition to expanding BrickLink's market by offering
to sell to non-members if sellers so wish. It is not being forced on anyone who
does not want it and it will benefit BrickLink and sellers who participate with
increased sales, prestiege and name recognition for BrickLink - which is good
for everyone. The increased risk is negligibe because the current sign-up system
offers absolutely no protection against scammers or dishonest buyers.
|
I'm curious to hear why you thought that selling to banned members was a terrible
idea, while your idea would allow precisely that and more.
Also: I know that the comparisons to other online retailers appears to support
your case -- it definitely is easier to buy something from Amazon than it is
to buy something through BrickLink. But I think that this is due to the very
different nature of those two venues. A better comparison would be between BrickLink
and ebay. I just took a glance at ebay's process, and it's pretty much the same,
process-wise, as BrickLink. Ebay is pretty famous for being a source of many
impulse buys, too.
Are there people who leave BrickLink because they didn't feel like registering?
Seems almost certain. Is the amount of money that they would have spent substantial?
Completely unknown, but I suspect not.
I also wanted to briefly touch on the comparison between in-store registration
for discount cards, etc (like the LEGO VIP program). I myself very rarely bother
registering for things like that in a store. And yet I have no problem signing
up for various web services (sometimes using a one-time email address if I'm
suspicious), simply because those are two very different experiences.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | Author: | BLUSER_8789 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 10:18 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Currently, there are 145,984 BrickLink members. Of those members, 81,929 or 56%
have a feedback score of 1 or less. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority
of this 56% are casual one-time buyers who place a single order and never return
to BrickLink. I also think we need to recognize that BrickLink loses a great
many sales from other casual buyers who prefer to purchase from more user-friendly
competing online sites such as Amazon, Target and TRU which do not have annoying
cumbersome registration or membership requirements which deter quick impulse
buying. For all of us who are already members with multiple purchases under our
belts, we can't really understand why casual non-AFOL buyers may be reluctant
to register, nor can we say it is no problem to register and become a member.
We simply are not casual buyers.
I go to my local Lego Store once or twice a week. Every time I am there I hear
the cashiers asking customers if they want to join the Lego VIP program. At least
half of them refuse even though it costs them nothing and gives them 5% back
on later purchases. Why do they refuse to sign up for this program? Because they
don't want to be bothered with it, think it is a gimmick, don't have time to
do so, or are just buying one time for a special occasion. It is the same for
many potential buyers who visit BrickLink but never bother registering and becoming
a member. Why go through the time and hassle of registering and becoming a BrickLink
member if you only want to quickly buy one time and can easily do so at so many
other competing online sites? The fact that there are tens of thousands of buyers
who have gone through this hassle just for one purchase leads me to think there
are just as many, if not more, potential buyers who declined to do so. That translates
to a loss of tens of thousands of sales and maybe even more than 100,000 lost
sales. Sure, I am guessing with these numbers. But I don't think they are far-fetched,
nor do I think anyone can deny that BrickLink and its sellers have lost a great
many sales from buyers who chose not to register and become members.
The casual impulsive non-AFOL buyer market is undoubtedly very substantial and
I think BrickLink should do more to tap that market. One way to do this would
be to allow sellers to accept orders from such buyers without requiring those
buyers to register and become members of BrickLink. How can this be done?
Well, when a buyer wants to place an order with a BrickLink seller, the first
thing BrickLink will ask is whether he is a member or not. If the buyer is not
a member, rather than rejecting his order and requiring the buyer to register
and become a member (thereby scaring off a good percentage of such buyers), BrickLink
will prompt the buyer to enter their name and shipping address for the seller.
What happens next needs some further discussion and brainstorming. In other words,
I am putting forward as a suggestion the general idea of allowing sellers to
opt into accepting orders from non-members. That is the only thing I am suggesting
now. The finer details of how this will work are NOT part of this suggestion
and are just ideas for improving and refining this suggestion.
If we want to allow sellers to opt into accepting orders from non-members, here
are some of the other issues which will need to be resolved:
1. What terms and conditions will be imposed on these non-member buyers when
placing their orders? My thinking is that they should be told and have to mark
a checkbox acknowledging that they accept the seller's terms AND BrickLink's
ToS. or, instead, should these buyers all be subject to the same terms regardless
of where they shop?
2. Shipping. Should these buyers pay fixed shipping with immediate invoicing
and payment upon checkout, or should they be invoiced later in the normal BrickLink
manner?
3. How to explain to these buyers what BrickLink is about and encourage them
to upgrade to a member account. Among other things, we need to nicely explain
to them the benefits of membership and the limitations of non-membership.
4. Feedback. I suggest that no feedback be exchanged when dealing with non-members.
5. Access to other BrickLink features. My thinking is that non-members should
only be allowed to place orders with sellers who have opted to accept such orders
and that non-members should not be able to post in the forum or chat, file any
NSS claims, open their own shops, create wanted lists, etc.
6. The downsides. Allowing these orders may entail more risk to sellers who
accept them. For example, buyers who have been banned for multiple NPBs or PayPal
scams may use this feature to place orders they would may not otherwise place.
But on the other hand, a determined scammer or troublemaker is not likely to
be deterred by having to open another multiple or bogus BrickLink account.
What else have I missed? If you can think of other concerns that will need to
be addressed, please say so. And if you have better ideas for getting more casual
mom and pop buyers on BrickLink, please do let us know.
This will certainly involve some work. Is it worth it? It may *IF* it if it means
an extra thousand or so orders on BrickLink every month.
Thor
BTW, this suggestion is separate and different from my previous suggestion for
pre-registered accounts.
|
I have a feeling this will only drive up prices (same as in evilBay, sellers
who sell to laymen aka non-LEGO-fans)... I vote an emphatic NO!
|
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| | | | | Author: | BUC | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 15:49 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| NO NO NO!
Where's the recourse when deals go sour?
And when you buy on Amazon or other online vendor you DO have to
create an account in order to complete checkout.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | BLUSER_81150 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 16:15 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| AS just a buyer:
I have found that BL is rather easy to use. The sellers here have made good on
every purchase. Unlike other online vendors, Lego(resales/ used/new parts) is
a very niche market. Word of mouth is your best friend, many times I have been
asked at my blog and ones that I am part of "where do I get parts" (we are a
NXT based Lego users group) BL is the first place we send people to.
I do alot of online shopping it seems. Just about of the places I spend money
at you must sign up, newegg I spent alot of money at over the years( atleast
10k). So I think "signing up is a none issue.
Doc" just a buyers 2cents"
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | atkk | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 17:24 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I sort of agree...but why can't we just get buyers to signup on checkout. I
have used other online stores, where you shop, and then enter your name personal
info(...) upon checkout. That is when they get registered.
I agree with anything to increase sales!!
Andre
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Currently, there are 145,984 BrickLink members. Of those members, 81,929 or 56%
have a feedback score of 1 or less. I think it is safe to say that the vast majority
of this 56% are casual one-time buyers who place a single order and never return
to BrickLink. I also think we need to recognize that BrickLink loses a great
many sales from other casual buyers who prefer to purchase from more user-friendly
competing online sites such as Amazon, Target and TRU which do not have annoying
cumbersome registration or membership requirements which deter quick impulse
buying. For all of us who are already members with multiple purchases under our
belts, we can't really understand why casual non-AFOL buyers may be reluctant
to register, nor can we say it is no problem to register and become a member.
We simply are not casual buyers.
I go to my local Lego Store once or twice a week. Every time I am there I hear
the cashiers asking customers if they want to join the Lego VIP program. At least
half of them refuse even though it costs them nothing and gives them 5% back
on later purchases. Why do they refuse to sign up for this program? Because they
don't want to be bothered with it, think it is a gimmick, don't have time to
do so, or are just buying one time for a special occasion. It is the same for
many potential buyers who visit BrickLink but never bother registering and becoming
a member. Why go through the time and hassle of registering and becoming a BrickLink
member if you only want to quickly buy one time and can easily do so at so many
other competing online sites? The fact that there are tens of thousands of buyers
who have gone through this hassle just for one purchase leads me to think there
are just as many, if not more, potential buyers who declined to do so. That translates
to a loss of tens of thousands of sales and maybe even more than 100,000 lost
sales. Sure, I am guessing with these numbers. But I don't think they are far-fetched,
nor do I think anyone can deny that BrickLink and its sellers have lost a great
many sales from buyers who chose not to register and become members.
The casual impulsive non-AFOL buyer market is undoubtedly very substantial and
I think BrickLink should do more to tap that market. One way to do this would
be to allow sellers to accept orders from such buyers without requiring those
buyers to register and become members of BrickLink. How can this be done?
Well, when a buyer wants to place an order with a BrickLink seller, the first
thing BrickLink will ask is whether he is a member or not. If the buyer is not
a member, rather than rejecting his order and requiring the buyer to register
and become a member (thereby scaring off a good percentage of such buyers), BrickLink
will prompt the buyer to enter their name and shipping address for the seller.
What happens next needs some further discussion and brainstorming. In other words,
I am putting forward as a suggestion the general idea of allowing sellers to
opt into accepting orders from non-members. That is the only thing I am suggesting
now. The finer details of how this will work are NOT part of this suggestion
and are just ideas for improving and refining this suggestion.
If we want to allow sellers to opt into accepting orders from non-members, here
are some of the other issues which will need to be resolved:
1. What terms and conditions will be imposed on these non-member buyers when
placing their orders? My thinking is that they should be told and have to mark
a checkbox acknowledging that they accept the seller's terms AND BrickLink's
ToS. or, instead, should these buyers all be subject to the same terms regardless
of where they shop?
2. Shipping. Should these buyers pay fixed shipping with immediate invoicing
and payment upon checkout, or should they be invoiced later in the normal BrickLink
manner?
3. How to explain to these buyers what BrickLink is about and encourage them
to upgrade to a member account. Among other things, we need to nicely explain
to them the benefits of membership and the limitations of non-membership.
4. Feedback. I suggest that no feedback be exchanged when dealing with non-members.
5. Access to other BrickLink features. My thinking is that non-members should
only be allowed to place orders with sellers who have opted to accept such orders
and that non-members should not be able to post in the forum or chat, file any
NSS claims, open their own shops, create wanted lists, etc.
6. The downsides. Allowing these orders may entail more risk to sellers who
accept them. For example, buyers who have been banned for multiple NPBs or PayPal
scams may use this feature to place orders they would may not otherwise place.
But on the other hand, a determined scammer or troublemaker is not likely to
be deterred by having to open another multiple or bogus BrickLink account.
What else have I missed? If you can think of other concerns that will need to
be addressed, please say so. And if you have better ideas for getting more casual
mom and pop buyers on BrickLink, please do let us know.
This will certainly involve some work. Is it worth it? It may *IF* it if it means
an extra thousand or so orders on BrickLink every month.
Thor
BTW, this suggestion is separate and different from my previous suggestion for
pre-registered accounts.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 22:17 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, atkk writes:
| | I sort of agree...but why can't we just get buyers to signup on checkout. I
have used other online stores, where you shop, and then enter your name personal
info(...) upon checkout. That is when they get registered.
I agree with anything to increase sales!!
Andre
|
I think this is a very good idea Andre and a nice compromise. Thank you for suggesting
it. The only tweak I would make is that registering via the checkout process
NOT require buyers to leave the store and BrickLink to check and confirm their
email account. Just input a username, password, full name, shipping address and
email account for billing and - viola! - the buyer is a member and the order
is submitted and ready to be processed.
I still think it would be easier and more user-friendly not to require buyers
to register at all. But your idea is a nice compromise which makes it easier
for new buyers to order while retaining most of the membership requirement.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2010 05:22 | | Subject: | Re: Option to Sell to Non-Members | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, atkk writes:
| | I sort of agree...but why can't we just get buyers to signup on checkout. I
have used other online stores, where you shop, and then enter your name personal
info(...) upon checkout. That is when they get registered.
I agree with anything to increase sales!!
Andre
|
I think this is a very good idea Andre and a nice compromise. Thank you for suggesting
it. The only tweak I would make is that registering via the checkout process
NOT require buyers to leave the store and BrickLink to check and confirm their
email account. Just input a username, password, full name, shipping address and
email account for billing and - viola! - the buyer is a member and the order
is submitted and ready to be processed.
I still think it would be easier and more user-friendly not to require buyers
to register at all. But your idea is a nice compromise which makes it easier
for new buyers to order while retaining most of the membership requirement.
Thor
|
Isn't that what happens now?
--
Marc.
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|
USA, North Carolina
Canada, British Columbia
