Redisplay Messages: Compact | Brief | All | Full Show Messages: All | Without Replies| Author: | StormChaser  | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2018 17:21 | | Subject: | Re: Seeking Opinions on Part Assemblies in Invs | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In LEGO, WoutR writes:
| | Assemblies that are combined simply because they are "easy to sell" or "probably
wanted by buyers" are no real counterparts according to this definition. (Although
I do usually buy my hinges combined/as a pair, so I have some mixed feelings
about those.)
|
As I said, I imagine the catalog entries would remain. You could still buy and
sell assemblies (like the hinges you prefer to buy as a pair), but they wouldn't
be included in inventories.
As for assemblies that aren't really legitimate counterparts, I only made
two exceptions: parts with wheels and wheel and tire assemblies. I don't
feel like two exceptions is too many. The other exceptions are special/large
assemblies and those will likely have their own section in inventories at some
point.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. It seems like everyone who
has responded are on pretty much the same page. The only real problem I can
see with better defined inventories is that it will create more orphaned catalog
entries (entries without appearances in sets or timelines of release). These
orphaned entries are somewhat off the beaten path and thus are more difficult
to locate.
How do you feel about that?
|
 |
| Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2018 17:08 | | Subject: | Re: Seeking Opinions on Part Assemblies in Invs | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In LEGO, StormChaser writes:
| | In LEGO, randyf writes:
| | This list would *not* include everything else: motorcycles, wheelbarrows, trikes,
bicycles, dollies, wheel and tire assemblies, hinges, turntables, carrots, glass
on windows or doors, animals, minifigs, etc.
|
I excepted the wheel and tire assemblies for two reasons: first, they genuinely
are a pain to deal with. I think people would greatly prefer to buy and sell
these assembled and there is no harm in exceptions so long as they are clearly
defined. Second, a number of them did come assembled in sets. My thinking was
that if any part assembly did indeed come assembled in at least one set, then
it would hurt nothing to include it as a counterpart in other sets. Since it
will have a timeline of appearance by virtue of being included in some sets,
we might as well have an accurate timeline.
As for parts with wheels like the others you mentioned (motorcycles, trikes,
bicycles, wheelbarrows, skateboards, etc.) I was trying to strike a balance between
a little change and a lot of change. Removing all of the assemblies with wheels
from all inventories would be a significant change. The good thing about the
way I've worded the rule is that if later on we decide to go that route,
the term "parts with wheels" can simply be removed from the list of exceptions.
We agree on hinges, turntables, carrots, glass on windows or doors, etc.
| | I have always felt the Counterpart area should *only* be for things
in a set that could never be reversed and would be found in a Used set.
|
That's actually a very good definition. I like it.
|
I proposed something similar in 2016:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=963408
I agree we need a better definition of the counterpart. In my opinion, the counterpart
is an item that has changed when the set was build. If an assembly was assembled
by LEGO, but could be separated later then that would also be a "change" from
the original MISB situation.
- Parts taken from their sprue
- Stickers taken from sheet and applied
- Sticker over assembly
- Assembly by LEGO that can be taken apart by users later
- Assembly by user that cannot be taken apart easily (or without risking damage)
Such a definition would also guide us in the future. LEGO might surprise us with
something new, and then we would have a simple principle to base the inventory
decisions on.
Assemblies that are combined simply because they are "easy to sell" or "probably
wanted by buyers" are no real counterparts according to this definition. (Although
I do usually buy my hinges combined/as a pair, so I have some mixed feelings
about those.)
| | | | This list would include lengths of string that had to be cut, parts removed from
plastic sheets, parts removed from cardboard or paper sheets, stickers applied
to parts, etc. In none of these situations can the parts ever be returned to
their original state.
|
|
+ parts taken from their sprue
| | For parts removed from sheets that won't be an issue once they can be parted
out. For other parts, though, it makes sense:
* | | 4209c05 (Inv) String Reel 2 x 4 x 2 Holder with Black Drum with Black String and Light Gray Plate, Modified 1 x 1 with Light Attachment - Thick Ring (4209 / 4208 / x77 / 4081b)
Parts: String Reel / Winch |
|
|
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| Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2018 16:30 | | Subject: | Re: Seeking Opinions on Part Assemblies in Invs | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In LEGO, randyf writes:
| | This list would *not* include everything else: motorcycles, wheelbarrows, trikes,
bicycles, dollies, wheel and tire assemblies, hinges, turntables, carrots, glass
on windows or doors, animals, minifigs, etc.
|
I excepted the wheel and tire assemblies for two reasons: first, they genuinely
are a pain to deal with. I think people would greatly prefer to buy and sell
these assembled and there is no harm in exceptions so long as they are clearly
defined. Second, a number of them did come assembled in sets. My thinking was
that if any part assembly did indeed come assembled in at least one set, then
it would hurt nothing to include it as a counterpart in other sets. Since it
will have a timeline of appearance by virtue of being included in some sets,
we might as well have an accurate timeline.
As for parts with wheels like the others you mentioned (motorcycles, trikes,
bicycles, wheelbarrows, skateboards, etc.) I was trying to strike a balance between
a little change and a lot of change. Removing all of the assemblies with wheels
from all inventories would be a significant change. The good thing about the
way I've worded the rule is that if later on we decide to go that route,
the term "parts with wheels" can simply be removed from the list of exceptions.
We agree on hinges, turntables, carrots, glass on windows or doors, etc.
| | I have always felt the Counterpart area should *only* be for things
in a set that could never be reversed and would be found in a Used set.
|
That's actually a very good definition. I like it.
| | This list would include lengths of string that had to be cut, parts removed from
plastic sheets, parts removed from cardboard or paper sheets, stickers applied
to parts, etc. In none of these situations can the parts ever be returned to
their original state.
|
For parts removed from sheets that won't be an issue once they can be parted
out. For other parts, though, it makes sense:
* | | 4209c05 (Inv) String Reel 2 x 4 x 2 Holder with Black Drum with Black String and Light Gray Plate, Modified 1 x 1 with Light Attachment - Thick Ring (4209 / 4208 / x77 / 4081b)
Parts: String Reel / Winch |
|
|
| Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2018 10:46 | | Subject: | Re: Seeking Opinions on Part Assemblies in Invs | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| I mostly agree with Randy, but with a slight bend. If it is possible, the priority
should be getting the special assemblies part out functionality and not fixing
everything twice.
In LEGO, randyf writes:
| | In LEGO, StormChaser writes:
Hey Robert -
Good start to the discussion. Here are my thoughts.
The rule for Counterparts if I was an Inventory Admin would be even stricter
than yours. I have always felt the Counterpart area should *only* be for things
in a set that could never be reversed and would be found in a Used set.
This list would include lengths of string that had to be cut, parts removed from
plastic sheets, parts removed from cardboard or paper sheets, stickers applied
to parts, etc. In none of these situations can the parts ever be returned to
their original state. Therefore, it makes sense to have these listed since a
Used set would contain these parts instead of the parts as shown in the Regular
items section showing what a New set would contain (one length of string, a full
plastic sheet, a full cardboard or paper sheet, a full sticker sheet, etc.).
This list would *not* include everything else: motorcycles, wheelbarrows, trikes,
bicycles, dollies, wheel and tire assemblies, hinges, turntables, carrots, glass
on windows or doors, animals, minifigs, etc.
Since the functionality to part out Special Assemblies in a set is still a no
go, *only* minifigs and animals would remain in the inventories as is for now
as Minifigs and Counterparts, respectively. However, when the functionality to
part out Special Assemblies was created, then the minifigs and animals would
be added under a Special Assemblies section and Removed as Minfigs and Counterparts.
My lines are hard and drawn deeply in the sand, but it keeps inventories simple,
uncluttered, and consistent.
Thanks for leading this effort,
Randy
|
|
|
| Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2018 08:23 | | Subject: | Re: Seeking Opinions on Part Assemblies in Invs | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In LEGO, StormChaser writes:
Hey Robert -
Good start to the discussion. Here are my thoughts.
The rule for Counterparts if I was an Inventory Admin would be even stricter
than yours. I have always felt the Counterpart area should *only* be for things
in a set that could never be reversed and would be found in a Used set.
This list would include lengths of string that had to be cut, parts removed from
plastic sheets, parts removed from cardboard or paper sheets, stickers applied
to parts, etc. In none of these situations can the parts ever be returned to
their original state. Therefore, it makes sense to have these listed since a
Used set would contain these parts instead of the parts as shown in the Regular
items section showing what a New set would contain (one length of string, a full
plastic sheet, a full cardboard or paper sheet, a full sticker sheet, etc.).
This list would *not* include everything else: motorcycles, wheelbarrows, trikes,
bicycles, dollies, wheel and tire assemblies, hinges, turntables, carrots, glass
on windows or doors, animals, minifigs, etc.
Since the functionality to part out Special Assemblies in a set is still a no
go, *only* minifigs and animals would remain in the inventories as is for now
as Minifigs and Counterparts, respectively. However, when the functionality to
part out Special Assemblies was created, then the minifigs and animals would
be added under a Special Assemblies section and Removed as Minfigs and Counterparts.
My lines are hard and drawn deeply in the sand, but it keeps inventories simple,
uncluttered, and consistent.
Thanks for leading this effort,
Randy
|
|
| Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2018 05:05 | | Subject: | Seeking Opinions on Part Assemblies in Invs | | Viewed: | 283 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
| There has been inconsistency for many years regarding when part assemblies should
or should not be included as counterparts in set inventories. I believe this
has been due to not having written standards regarding this issue. Therefore,
I'd like to create some.
As part of the discussion and decision-making process I'm seeking input from
the community on how you'd like to see part assemblies handled in inventories.
I have updated this page to include my idea of one way to handle assemblies
(see the section titled Additional Information About Counterparts: Part Assemblies
as Counterparts):
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1562
This rule is currently just my idea and no inventories are being changed right
now in regards to that section.
If that's the route we go, then it would mean the removal of certain parts
as counterparts from set inventories. These are some examples of parts which
would likely be removed from inventories because they don't comply with the
rule:
Those parts would join other existing parts in the catalog which are not connected
to any set inventories:
The catalog entries would likely remain for any parts removed from inventories
and could still be used for buying and selling just as they are now.
The second route we could go is to include all of the existing part assemblies
in the catalog in inventories. That opens the door to many more part assemblies
being added to the catalog and to inventories. My concern with that approach
is that eventually you fill up inventories (and the catalog) with part assemblies
- especially when you consider stickered/printed assemblies, assembly color variations,
and part variant assemblies.
As an example of all the assemblies which could be added to the catalog for just
a couple of parts, see this list:
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogRelList.asp?relID=13&catID=642
If going the route of inclusion in inventories doesn't open the door to new
assemblies, then we must live with inconsistencies in which parts are added as
assemblies and which are not. As an example of that inconsistency, why is the
first of these two assemblies included in inventories and there is not even a
catalog entry for the second assembly?
* | | 4275 Hinge Plate 1 x 2 with 3 Fingers on End (Undetermined Type)
Parts: Hinge |
* | | 4276 Hinge Plate 1 x 2 with 2 Fingers on End (Undetermined Type)
Parts: Hinge |
LEGO parts can be assembled in a myriad of ways and there are many parts which
naturally fit together. At some point a line absolutely has to be drawn on what
is included in inventories. Where do you feel the line should be drawn?
|
|
| Author: | mattkaupke | | Posted: | Aug 16, 2018 18:43 | | Subject: | Re: Part variations | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Catalog, mattkaupke writes:
| | In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, mattkaupke writes:
| | I’ve noticed as of late that there have been some changes to the catalog resulting
in a number of my items being changed to “undetermined type”. For example 1x1x5
bricks listed as 2453 used to be hollow stud and 2453b was solid. Now 2453 is
undetermined, hollow is 2453a and solid 2453b
Is there an easy fix for this beyond manually changing each item part number?
Also, is there a list of the parts that have been changed in this way?
|
You will be notified if your store has any items that are marked for deletion.
Other than that, you may just search for the word "undetermined".
| | For the admins- is it possible for you guys to automatically do this for the
sellers when you make the changes?
|
Yes, we could move your listings, but that would defeat the whole purpose of
the transition. The hard part isn't changing 2453 to 2453a on your store
inventory page. The correct way involves physically locating all your parts in
this variant group and sorting them.
Btw, there have always been such changes in the catalog. But it is true, we have
been increasing the frequency a bit as of late.
|
Thanks for the response, I do appreciate that you guys are active on the board.
I did have one additional comment about the part numbers. From what I’ve tried
it seeems like you can only search for the exact number you’re looking for (i.e.
2453a) but if you put the simple number in the search bar nothing comes up(this
only pertains to the items the have variations and that the Unidentified listing
has been removed) . The easiest way to look up a part is by the number on the
part itself typically, so is it possible to allow the search to find all part
numbers by searching the base number? If I type in 2453, the search would yield
all parts containing that base number 2453, 2453a, 2453b etc? Both in the search
of the catalog and of the individual sellers inventory.
|
Type this
2453*
with asterisk 
|
I’m not sure if anyone has told you lately, but you’re the best.
|
|
| Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Aug 16, 2018 16:07 | | Subject: | Re: Part variations | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In Catalog, mattkaupke writes:
| | In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, mattkaupke writes:
| | I’ve noticed as of late that there have been some changes to the catalog resulting
in a number of my items being changed to “undetermined type”. For example 1x1x5
bricks listed as 2453 used to be hollow stud and 2453b was solid. Now 2453 is
undetermined, hollow is 2453a and solid 2453b
Is there an easy fix for this beyond manually changing each item part number?
Also, is there a list of the parts that have been changed in this way?
|
You will be notified if your store has any items that are marked for deletion.
Other than that, you may just search for the word "undetermined".
| | For the admins- is it possible for you guys to automatically do this for the
sellers when you make the changes?
|
Yes, we could move your listings, but that would defeat the whole purpose of
the transition. The hard part isn't changing 2453 to 2453a on your store
inventory page. The correct way involves physically locating all your parts in
this variant group and sorting them.
Btw, there have always been such changes in the catalog. But it is true, we have
been increasing the frequency a bit as of late.
|
Thanks for the response, I do appreciate that you guys are active on the board.
I did have one additional comment about the part numbers. From what I’ve tried
it seeems like you can only search for the exact number you’re looking for (i.e.
2453a) but if you put the simple number in the search bar nothing comes up(this
only pertains to the items the have variations and that the Unidentified listing
has been removed) . The easiest way to look up a part is by the number on the
part itself typically, so is it possible to allow the search to find all part
numbers by searching the base number? If I type in 2453, the search would yield
all parts containing that base number 2453, 2453a, 2453b etc? Both in the search
of the catalog and of the individual sellers inventory.
|
Type this
2453*
with asterisk
|
|
| Author: | mattkaupke | | Posted: | Aug 16, 2018 16:04 | | Subject: | Re: Part variations | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, mattkaupke writes:
| | I’ve noticed as of late that there have been some changes to the catalog resulting
in a number of my items being changed to “undetermined type”. For example 1x1x5
bricks listed as 2453 used to be hollow stud and 2453b was solid. Now 2453 is
undetermined, hollow is 2453a and solid 2453b
Is there an easy fix for this beyond manually changing each item part number?
Also, is there a list of the parts that have been changed in this way?
|
You will be notified if your store has any items that are marked for deletion.
Other than that, you may just search for the word "undetermined".
| | For the admins- is it possible for you guys to automatically do this for the
sellers when you make the changes?
|
Yes, we could move your listings, but that would defeat the whole purpose of
the transition. The hard part isn't changing 2453 to 2453a on your store
inventory page. The correct way involves physically locating all your parts in
this variant group and sorting them.
Btw, there have always been such changes in the catalog. But it is true, we have
been increasing the frequency a bit as of late.
|
Thanks for the response, I do appreciate that you guys are active on the board.
I did have one additional comment about the part numbers. From what I’ve tried
it seeems like you can only search for the exact number you’re looking for (i.e.
2453a) but if you put the simple number in the search bar nothing comes up(this
only pertains to the items the have variations and that the Unidentified listing
has been removed) . The easiest way to look up a part is by the number on the
part itself typically, so is it possible to allow the search to find all part
numbers by searching the base number? If I type in 2453, the search would yield
all parts containing that base number 2453, 2453a, 2453b etc? Both in the search
of the catalog and of the individual sellers inventory.
|
|
| Author: | mattkaupke | | Posted: | Aug 16, 2018 15:57 | | Subject: | Re: Part variations | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
| In Catalog, qwertyboy writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, mattkaupke writes:
| | I’ve noticed as of late that there have been some changes to the catalog resulting
in a number of my items being changed to “undetermined type”. For example 1x1x5
bricks listed as 2453 used to be hollow stud and 2453b was solid. Now 2453 is
undetermined, hollow is 2453a and solid 2453b
Is there an easy fix for this beyond manually changing each item part number?
Also, is there a list of the parts that have been changed in this way?
For the admins- is it possible for you guys to automatically do this for the
sellers when you make the changes?
|
As to this last question - the entry for 2453 had a description of "Brick 1 x
1 x 5", so it did not have "hollow" specified. Most sellers used it to sell the
hollow variant, but technically it could contain both. Moving all 2453's
automatically to 2453a would cause issues, as likely there are many listed under
2453 with a solid stud.
Niek.
|
Thanks for the insight. I hadn’t thought of it that way. I suppose I always assumed
that the original non a or b was the remaining variant.
|
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